Great video, FM. Just wanted to say that I have polyurethane bushings with a bronze bearing kit. But if it wasn’t for the bronze bearings, I would have never chosen poly for for the streets. I do have to grease them with every oil change and that has added a lot more time to what was formally a quick job.
I would like advanced notice that you are going to stream - so we can be here for Q/A - if you are already doing that, please let us know where so we can follow there.
We do the live videos on Facebook, every Thursday at 2:00 Mountain time. The subject is announced on FB and Instagram ahead of time so you can ask questions, or you can join in live on Facebook. This particular video was a livestream at our Summer Camp event so it wasn’t in the usual time slot, but the schedule was posted on flyinmiata.com. The TH-cam posting is a record of that live recording, it’s not broadcast in real time.
I have a 2010 NC2 soft top. I upgraded to the koni stage 8 or 9 years ago and it’s been great. It has transformed the handling of the car. Ride comfort is fine except over very rough pavement. You will feel the potholes and expansion joints much more than with the stock suspension, but there is no more float on good pavement. In my opinion it’s more than a fair trade. The MOST IMPORTANT thing is the handling is much safer. The early NC stock suspension was way too soft and under damped. It had a tendency towards extreme roll then rapid rebound If you were not careful and do not have stability control it would snap oversteer. The koni stage 2 is nice and controlled and predictable.
While some of our suppliers have struggled to deliver, we have been shipping product constantly. If you're not signed up for the "back in stock" emails you may not realize it because they can sell out quickly.
@@FlyinMiataVideo I think I did sign up a while ago, but I keep checking Fox suspension kits with bars but always sold out. I will sign up again. Thanks for replying!!
Unfortunately, we haven't had much chance to play with a 2022. There's no reason KPC should be affected by aftermarket suspension or vice versa, but you might want to soften the sway bars slightly compared to a non-KPC car. Or more accurately, you may not want to run them as stiff.
In general, the Koni Stage 1 or 2 kit will be a good selection for a daily or dual purpose car as long as you're not tryin to get the last tenth in your track events. The Fox do work well on the street but aren't as comfy as the Koni setups. To clarify the springs in our Koni kits, they aren't progressive springs, they're a single rate with some dead coils (depending on the gen).
The perils of shooting live, we meant to mention them but Keith forgot. They're a way to convert a standard shock into a coilover setup. How well they work is usually dependent on how the shock perch is attached, and of course you have to select the correct spring rate and length for them to work properly. They can work well if set up properly.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Thanks! I actually have them! Just wanted to hear your thoughts.. But they've been great for me.. Running them with KYB agx's and FM bump stops for 9 years on my NB1.. Nice that GC lets you choose your spring rates (can't remember mine off the top of my head).. But I really like the option to replace the struts when they go bad (on my second set now, after running the first for 7ish years) Love all your videos! Keep up the excellent work!!
Why don't you offer the extended top hats with the fox as a package? Do they not work together? What is the lowest recommended ride height with the foxes on an NA?
They're not necessary, we were able to get maximum travel out of the suspension without changing the rear upper mounts. Lowest recommended ride height depends on the spring rates you're running. Our instructions recommend 12.5" front and 13" rear, you could probably go 0.5" lower than that before you get yourself into trouble. Higher spring rates can run lower ride heights.
Anything that affects unsprung weight and rebound can change the feel of your suspension, and wheel size, and even tire compound can add stiffness to the suspension. With adjustable components, some of this can be accounted for, but as a general rule, lighter is better to keep the sharp and playful characteristics of the Miata. Feel free to reach out to our support team if you have more questions or need suggestions!
Love the presentation, it was very informative and direct. My question is about the vmaxx extreme sports and sway bar package, yes It looks like they are out of stock for the foreseeable future, but it is what it is, are these matched products? As in that they work in conjunction with one another or are the sway bars the sway bars and any sway bar will work? Secondly, I've read people going with NO rear sway bar....is that recommended, if so what type of application?
Any sway bar of the same dimensions will work. If you start going with different dimensions, you will end up with a different handling balance. No rear sway is usually paired with other settings like spring rates and alignment to match. It's more likely to be seen in autocross where traction off a low speed corner is very important.
Hi there I owned mx5 ND RF 2022 and I just wanna lower the car to get rid of the gap between tyres and fanders... I'm not into racing tracks just daily driving... 16 inch wheel black shocks ... do I need for coilover or just lowering springs And is it gonna effect chassy or other parts of the car if I just went with lower springs... please help me out I'm so confused what to go with
Good information, thanks! I just picked up a NC2 PRHT which I use as a daily….love the car! I’m not really one to drive at the edge and I don’t have any plans to track it but I do enjoy the occasional twisty roads of course! My only complaint with stock is the body roll. If I understood you correctly I want the Koenig shocks but I’m not sure about the sway bars. Thoughts?
It's fun. More responsive, more controlled. You don't need larger tires because of the suspension, but if you do increase your grip level the suspension will be able to handle it better than the stock suspension would.
what setup is on the Blue ND2?? All I want is to have that stance and ride height. Also, what do you think of air cups? I am surprised to see no offerings for them from flyin miata since they literally cure the one flaw of ANY lowered setup by allowing you all the looks with less commitment.
The ND2 is on our Stage 2 Koni suspension using FM springs. Air cups share the same problem of any air-based suspension: the lower the height, the softer the spring rate - or, conversely, the higher you run it the stiffer it is. That is unfortunately exactly the opposite of what you need, which is a high spring rate when you have decreased suspension travel. They're great to deal with widely varying loads like a pickup truck (Keith has them in his Dodge 2500 for this reason) and they work well enough for hard parking where actual function is less important than looks, but they're a bad choice for a performance Miata.
@@FlyinMiataVideo We are talking about air cups and not air bags right? air cups are a piston slid over a normal coilover and should act like any coilover would to drive on. it should just add the ability to temporarily raise the front or rear height over a speed bump or a driveway. it isn't designed to be driven at speed with the cup extended. an air line is run to the piston and it extends/retracts as needed, but the coilover below the cup does all the work of a coilover. Also, if the air cup should ever fail, it simply ceases to function but the coilover it's sitting on continues to be a coilover until you decide to fix the cups.
@@twrcrew8852 Functionally, it's still an air bag acting as a spring. It's just not the only spring - again, like Keith's truck. If you set the car up for normal ride height and use the air cup to lift higher for things like driveway clearance, it would work. If you set the car too low and then rely on the air cup/bag to make it driveable, it's not a good option because you're handicapping the car from the start. If your primary concern is "looks with less commitment", you will probably set it up too low for function as a functional ride height will not need to be lifted higher on a regular basis. Note that coil bind could easily become a concern with these in the spring stack as you will may have to run a shorter spring. If you're trying to get a low race car on a trailer, it could be very convenient!
@@FlyinMiataVideo Ok, that second paragraph seems to highlight your confusion. The air cups DO NOT/WILL NOT function as bags do. The cups do NOT stay raised while driving. The ride height is set by the coilovers period, then the suspension itself runs solely off the coilover. They are not bags. No part of the car is supported by the cup OUTSIDE of raising it for 3-10 seconds going over a bump. Think of it like a dump truck. The truck does not drive with the bed inclined, ever. only while it's function is being used. Anyway, I am aiming for the ride height to be like what you guys have in your blue ND. Where I live, that is low enough to scrape on driveways, hills, and speed bumps. especially sporting a lip. Stock corvettes and porsches scrape frame rails, exhausts, and what have you over these obstacles and the ND at stock height gets very close, so a tiny drop in height is enough to scrape. That said, I would still like to lower my vehicle. I just want my exhaust and any low lying undercarriage bits to stay nice and un-damaged. which air cups are specifically designed to do for cars on coilovers. I only know of 2 brands that sell them and neither are endorsed by FM. That would be Fortune Auto and Stance.
Not confused at all. They’re not difficult to understand. If you use them as described, they should work as long as you don’t run into coil bind problems. That’s what we said. Just resist the urge to run too low. We have different priorities than Fortune Auto and Stance do, so we have a different product mix.
The STR.T are basically a slightly better factory replacement shock, not a true performance shock. Sway bars are the best bang for your buck suspension upgrade, but the mods we recommend will truly depend on your preference and how you use the car. Feel free to give our customer support team a call if you'd like to chat about your goals and get our suspension recommendations. Thanks!
If you are gravel rallying a MX5, would the Fox be able to handle rally applications or would it be better to go with the Paco motorsport rallycross setup?
The Fox would likely work pretty well on gravel as we know they're quite competent on rough surfaces, but if you're going to be jumping the Paco parts are probably better suited.
@@ads1035 We don't quote drop because not all Miatas start the same height - especially not after 30 years - but they'll all end up at the same place with our springs. The upper mounts do work quite well with our springs and Konis.
Hello, I have a ND2 soft top, I plan to put some coilover and lower it about 2/3cm, do I need the end links for the sway bars? Spacers 20mm rear and 15 front can affect negatively the handling or aren't too exagerate? Thank you!
If you plan on lowering the car, especially with spacers, you should get an alignment. Adjustable end links come in handy and are recommended to make sure you have them in the correct position on a lowered car, but probably aren't essential if you are only lowering your car 2cm.
@@FlyinMiataVideo yes, I want to have the same space around all the tyre, so I think that is 2/3cm... your setup alignment is good also with the stock Potenza S001?
I bought the koni stage 2.5 for the na6 chassis, but when I opened it the extended top hats were a blue teal ish color instead if the purple, is there a reason for this
We changed to the more common blue to lower anodizing costs, but hadn't yet updated the website photos. Our apologies for that. There is absolutely no change in function or durability.
I have the Koni Orange Street shocks, and original springs 110k milage. What would be the best thing to upgrade to limit the body roll, because as you stay... my body roll parts are out to lunch. I want something that will corner with little roll. I have no roll bar, or upgraded parts. Maybe its just a matter of bushings but doubt that is it... really not sure.
Great video, FM. Just wanted to say that I have polyurethane bushings with a bronze bearing kit. But if it wasn’t for the bronze bearings, I would have never chosen poly for for the streets. I do have to grease them with every oil change and that has added a lot more time to what was formally a quick job.
It would be great to see a drive comparison between nd2 stock shock-spring with anti-roll bar upgrade vs stage 2 koni-fm springs
I would like advanced notice that you are going to stream - so we can be here for Q/A - if you are already doing that, please let us know where so we can follow there.
We do the live videos on Facebook, every Thursday at 2:00 Mountain time. The subject is announced on FB and Instagram ahead of time so you can ask questions, or you can join in live on Facebook. This particular video was a livestream at our Summer Camp event so it wasn’t in the usual time slot, but the schedule was posted on flyinmiata.com.
The TH-cam posting is a record of that live recording, it’s not broadcast in real time.
I have a 2010 NC2 soft top. I upgraded to the koni stage 8 or 9 years ago and it’s been great. It has transformed the handling of the car. Ride comfort is fine except over very rough pavement. You will feel the potholes and expansion joints much more than with the stock suspension, but there is no more float on good pavement. In my opinion it’s more than a fair trade.
The MOST IMPORTANT thing is the handling is much safer. The early NC stock suspension was way too soft and under damped. It had a tendency towards extreme roll then rapid rebound If you were not careful and do not have stability control it would snap oversteer. The koni stage 2 is nice and controlled and predictable.
Thanks Keth.
Thanks for another outstanding video!!!
Takes big balls to market suspension kits when you been out of stock for a year.
Ballsy is what we like about you Keith! :)
While some of our suppliers have struggled to deliver, we have been shipping product constantly. If you're not signed up for the "back in stock" emails you may not realize it because they can sell out quickly.
@@FlyinMiataVideo I think I did sign up a while ago, but I keep checking Fox suspension kits with bars but always sold out. I will sign up again. Thanks for replying!!
Have you guys had time with KPC and aftermarket suspension? What are your thoughts?
Unfortunately, we haven't had much chance to play with a 2022. There's no reason KPC should be affected by aftermarket suspension or vice versa, but you might want to soften the sway bars slightly compared to a non-KPC car. Or more accurately, you may not want to run them as stiff.
How does it compare the ride quality between the progressive springs in the FM Koni combo and the fox combo?
In general, the Koni Stage 1 or 2 kit will be a good selection for a daily or dual purpose car as long as you're not tryin to get the last tenth in your track events. The Fox do work well on the street but aren't as comfy as the Koni setups. To clarify the springs in our Koni kits, they aren't progressive springs, they're a single rate with some dead coils (depending on the gen).
Darn missed this, are the fox stage 2 smoother than the koni stage 2 in the street on a ND??
Wanted to hear your thoughts on those ground control coilover sleeves.. they’re on the table but never mentioned them
The perils of shooting live, we meant to mention them but Keith forgot. They're a way to convert a standard shock into a coilover setup. How well they work is usually dependent on how the shock perch is attached, and of course you have to select the correct spring rate and length for them to work properly. They can work well if set up properly.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Thanks! I actually have them! Just wanted to hear your thoughts.. But they've been great for me.. Running them with KYB agx's and FM bump stops for 9 years on my NB1.. Nice that GC lets you choose your spring rates (can't remember mine off the top of my head).. But I really like the option to replace the struts when they go bad (on my second set now, after running the first for 7ish years)
Love all your videos! Keep up the excellent work!!
Why don't you offer the extended top hats with the fox as a package? Do they not work together? What is the lowest recommended ride height with the foxes on an NA?
They're not necessary, we were able to get maximum travel out of the suspension without changing the rear upper mounts.
Lowest recommended ride height depends on the spring rates you're running. Our instructions recommend 12.5" front and 13" rear, you could probably go 0.5" lower than that before you get yourself into trouble. Higher spring rates can run lower ride heights.
Upgrading brakes, changing wheels size, reducing unsprung weight is something to take in consideration when you modify the suspension?
Anything that affects unsprung weight and rebound can change the feel of your suspension, and wheel size, and even tire compound can add stiffness to the suspension. With adjustable components, some of this can be accounted for, but as a general rule, lighter is better to keep the sharp and playful characteristics of the Miata. Feel free to reach out to our support team if you have more questions or need suggestions!
Love the presentation, it was very informative and direct.
My question is about the vmaxx extreme sports and sway bar package, yes It looks like they are out of stock for the foreseeable future, but it is what it is, are these matched products? As in that they work in conjunction with one another or are the sway bars the sway bars and any sway bar will work? Secondly, I've read people going with NO rear sway bar....is that recommended, if so what type of application?
Any sway bar of the same dimensions will work. If you start going with different dimensions, you will end up with a different handling balance.
No rear sway is usually paired with other settings like spring rates and alignment to match. It's more likely to be seen in autocross where traction off a low speed corner is very important.
Hi there
I owned mx5 ND RF 2022 and I just wanna lower the car to get rid of the gap between tyres and fanders... I'm not into racing tracks just daily driving... 16 inch wheel black shocks ... do I need for coilover or just lowering springs
And is it gonna effect chassy or other parts of the car if I just went with lower springs... please help me out I'm so confused what to go with
Good information, thanks! I just picked up a NC2 PRHT which I use as a daily….love the car! I’m not really one to drive at the edge and I don’t have any plans to track it but I do enjoy the occasional twisty roads of course! My only complaint with stock is the body roll. If I understood you correctly I want the Koenig shocks but I’m not sure about the sway bars. Thoughts?
If you're looking to cut down on body roll, that's exactly what sway bars are designed to do.
How is the nd with stage 2 koni setup with stock tire size ? Is a tire width change necessary?
It's fun. More responsive, more controlled. You don't need larger tires because of the suspension, but if you do increase your grip level the suspension will be able to handle it better than the stock suspension would.
what setup is on the Blue ND2?? All I want is to have that stance and ride height. Also, what do you think of air cups? I am surprised to see no offerings for them from flyin miata since they literally cure the one flaw of ANY lowered setup by allowing you all the looks with less commitment.
The ND2 is on our Stage 2 Koni suspension using FM springs.
Air cups share the same problem of any air-based suspension: the lower the height, the softer the spring rate - or, conversely, the higher you run it the stiffer it is. That is unfortunately exactly the opposite of what you need, which is a high spring rate when you have decreased suspension travel. They're great to deal with widely varying loads like a pickup truck (Keith has them in his Dodge 2500 for this reason) and they work well enough for hard parking where actual function is less important than looks, but they're a bad choice for a performance Miata.
@@FlyinMiataVideo We are talking about air cups and not air bags right? air cups are a piston slid over a normal coilover and should act like any coilover would to drive on. it should just add the ability to temporarily raise the front or rear height over a speed bump or a driveway. it isn't designed to be driven at speed with the cup extended. an air line is run to the piston and it extends/retracts as needed, but the coilover below the cup does all the work of a coilover.
Also, if the air cup should ever fail, it simply ceases to function but the coilover it's sitting on continues to be a coilover until you decide to fix the cups.
@@twrcrew8852 Functionally, it's still an air bag acting as a spring. It's just not the only spring - again, like Keith's truck.
If you set the car up for normal ride height and use the air cup to lift higher for things like driveway clearance, it would work. If you set the car too low and then rely on the air cup/bag to make it driveable, it's not a good option because you're handicapping the car from the start. If your primary concern is "looks with less commitment", you will probably set it up too low for function as a functional ride height will not need to be lifted higher on a regular basis. Note that coil bind could easily become a concern with these in the spring stack as you will may have to run a shorter spring.
If you're trying to get a low race car on a trailer, it could be very convenient!
@@FlyinMiataVideo Ok, that second paragraph seems to highlight your confusion. The air cups DO NOT/WILL NOT function as bags do. The cups do NOT stay raised while driving. The ride height is set by the coilovers period, then the suspension itself runs solely off the coilover. They are not bags. No part of the car is supported by the cup OUTSIDE of raising it for 3-10 seconds going over a bump.
Think of it like a dump truck. The truck does not drive with the bed inclined, ever. only while it's function is being used.
Anyway, I am aiming for the ride height to be like what you guys have in your blue ND. Where I live, that is low enough to scrape on driveways, hills, and speed bumps. especially sporting a lip. Stock corvettes and porsches scrape frame rails, exhausts, and what have you over these obstacles and the ND at stock height gets very close, so a tiny drop in height is enough to scrape.
That said, I would still like to lower my vehicle. I just want my exhaust and any low lying undercarriage bits to stay nice and un-damaged. which air cups are specifically designed to do for cars on coilovers. I only know of 2 brands that sell them and neither are endorsed by FM. That would be Fortune Auto and Stance.
Not confused at all. They’re not difficult to understand. If you use them as described, they should work as long as you don’t run into coil bind problems. That’s what we said. Just resist the urge to run too low.
We have different priorities than Fortune Auto and Stance do, so we have a different product mix.
I have an NA, wanted to ask if I get the Koni STR.T is it recommended to get the sway bars too?
The STR.T are basically a slightly better factory replacement shock, not a true performance shock. Sway bars are the best bang for your buck suspension upgrade, but the mods we recommend will truly depend on your preference and how you use the car. Feel free to give our customer support team a call if you'd like to chat about your goals and get our suspension recommendations. Thanks!
If you are gravel rallying a MX5, would the Fox be able to handle rally applications or would it be better to go with the Paco motorsport rallycross setup?
The Fox would likely work pretty well on gravel as we know they're quite competent on rough surfaces, but if you're going to be jumping the Paco parts are probably better suited.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Thanks for that
How do you determine whether or not the NA rear top hats are necessary for your application?
Cost :) If you're running lower than stock ride height, you will likely benefit from them. But they're not cheap.
Makes sense. The Koni yellow kit puts you roughly an inch lower than stock, doesn't it?
@@ads1035 We don't quote drop because not all Miatas start the same height - especially not after 30 years - but they'll all end up at the same place with our springs. The upper mounts do work quite well with our springs and Konis.
Thats exactly the info I needed, thank y'all so much!
Would you get more business or make parts more affordable doing a Group Buy system to get a larger group of people to buy for a discount?
We already purchase in fairly large quantities so that we can offer the same price all the time with the need for group buys.
Hello, I have a ND2 soft top, I plan to put some coilover and lower it about 2/3cm, do I need the end links for the sway bars? Spacers 20mm rear and 15 front can affect negatively the handling or aren't too exagerate? Thank you!
If you plan on lowering the car, especially with spacers, you should get an alignment. Adjustable end links come in handy and are recommended to make sure you have them in the correct position on a lowered car, but probably aren't essential if you are only lowering your car 2cm.
@@FlyinMiataVideo yes, I want to have the same space around all the tyre, so I think that is 2/3cm... your setup alignment is good also with the stock Potenza S001?
I bought the koni stage 2.5 for the na6 chassis, but when I opened it the extended top hats were a blue teal ish color instead if the purple, is there a reason for this
We changed to the more common blue to lower anodizing costs, but hadn't yet updated the website photos. Our apologies for that. There is absolutely no change in function or durability.
@@FlyinMiataVideo all good, just a little confused on it. Thanks for the info though.
I have the Koni Orange Street shocks, and original springs 110k milage. What would be the best thing to upgrade to limit the body roll, because as you stay... my body roll parts are out to lunch. I want something that will corner with little roll. I have no roll bar, or upgraded parts.
Maybe its just a matter of bushings but doubt that is it... really not sure.
The best way to limit body roll is sway bars. That’s exactly what they’re for. We have another video that goes into them a little more in-depth.