Performance Brake Theory (FM Live)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ย. 2024
- This week on FM Live, Keith follows up last week's Brake Maintenance video with performance braking, upgrades and theory. Plus, he brought an RC Miata!
Join us every Thursday at 2:00 PM Mountain Time for new live content! This is a quick overview video to inform our customers, and is not intended to be a guide or installation tutorial of any kind.
Flyin' Miata is the world leader in Miata performance. We offer a wide range of parts for all years of the Mazda MX-5 Miata.
www.flyinmiata.com
970-464-5600
6:15 "This probably has not helped at all"
You blew my mind and completely changed my understanding of how bias valves worked. Thank you.
I learned a lot at 5:30, about proportioning valves: how they have an adjustable over-pressure valve, that limits the pressure, but not the front at a user set pressure. Very helpful. Also the bit about how the rears, if they slip before the front can lean to directional instability. Quite important.
This is a great video, a lot of things make sense to me now. Please do more of these!
Thanks for posting this, Keith! You're one of the most knowledgeable Miata experts, bar none.
I ordered your book last night Keith. I have been trying to research xida vs fox vs the koni setup and a few other things (FM sways vs the setup 949 recommends is another one). I keep coming across your posts on forums and they are really helpful. My plan is to read your book cover to cover and after that / once I have the cash ready I will call FM and sort out whatever questions I have left about the suspension options out there.
What you have to say about the factory pads is interesting. These are quite good for around town. One of the failure modes for Mazda factory pads, is that when you take them up to higher temperatures of course they fade a bit, but what is more of a nuisance is that you also can melt the adhesive-binder which holds the material matrix of the pads together, such that there is material transfer to the disks. You start to address this at 20:07. This irregular brake pad material transfer causes the 'wump-wump-wump' that I, like many, first thought was a warped rotor, and now know that is patches of break-pad binder on the disks.
There is a road from Big Pine up in the San Gabriel Mountains, down to Vallermo on the floor of the Western Mohave, that follows a branch of the San Andreas fault. As you would expect this road has a lot of switch backs. The vegetation is chaparral, so you can see way ahead. Descending this road, I have gone over temperature with Mazda factor pads, resulting material transfer on to the disks not once, but twice. At no time was I stopped. It happened during the descent.
While a Mazda factory pad, with the Mazda logo, in a Mazda box, is a great pad, low dust, good bite from cold, kind to rotors and long lived, when a Mazda pad goes over temperature in my experience it not only fades: the binder that holds the pads together melts on to your disks up in front. And this lead me to a higher temperature pad, and the problem has never reoccurred even with the disk goes up over 900F. To measure this I acquired a radiometer. I wanted to know how close I was to boiling the fluid, melting the grease in the front wheel bearings and other failure modes that occur with over heated brakes.
The pad I have been using with success is an EBC "Green" 2000 series pad, which is dusty but is kind to rotors, and seems to be almost impossible to truly over heat in Canyon driving. You can get them so hot that the world around stinks of brake pad. There is no transfer to the disks. And when they cool down they are fine.
This said, there appear to be many good 'sport' pads. The EBC pads are the ones that I have learned to trust.
That was actually a cracking video, very informative and concise. Thank you!
"change your underwear " so casual 😂😂😂
It would have been nice to have your opinion on Plain disc vs Slotted vs Cross-drilled vs Slotted/Cross-drilled in this brake theory.
Short version: avoid drilled rotors. Slots are useful.
and along came the ND. here's a question is there any benefit to two piece rotors if there the same size. seeing as the na/nb use a 11 inch or a 11.75 as a big brake kit. but the nd use a 12.19 or 12.88 is the 11 inch two piece on a nd going to have any benefit?
another question. how does some one figure out if they just need the 4 piston caliper, or if they need a two piece rotor too. does it all come back down to the question of how much heat it can shead , aka how much thermal capability ?
Good stuff!!! Thank You Very Much!!!
Great video! Keep em coming!
Keith, your white board on proportioning valve effects was a nice touch on what Mike Usrey did with his display of fluid proportioning. I learned a lot from both of you on proportioning.
However, my question here is on brake bedding your pads/rotors.
I watched this video twice and read through the comments, but did not see this question...maybe because it's a dumb question, but even dummies need to know.
When changing from a street pad to a track pad, (vice versa) do the rotors need to be cleaned of the previous pad material transfer before bedding in the different track/street pad material?
Or no bedding is needed of the pad/rotor when changing back and forth?
Is this only required when using a new rotor?
Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
The answer to your question is "that depends". Some race pads and street pads will play nice. There's a much better chance of that if they're both from the same manufacturer, and the best thing to do is ask the pad manufacturer about the compatibility of their various compounds.
I’d love to see an overview of all your brake kit offerings to help me decide what I need. I’m not ever tracking my Miata so I wonder how much of a difference the brake upgrade kit would make vs the little big brake kit in street driving.
Hi Franco, as with most of our performance upgrades, the value and differences can vary depending on how the car is used. If you are in the US, give us a call at 970-464-5600, or drop us an email at support@flyinmiata.com. We'll be happy to run through the differences and recommendations with you!
Thank you
Thank You for sharing! Subscribed and I don't own a Miata.
Is there anyway I can get extra instructions on the NA/NB four wheel little big brake kit. Lots of things that are not explained and the entire rear kit does not even come with instruction. Thank you
Please contact our tech support department with any questions and to request the instructions for the rear kit. It should have come with the parts, but there's always the possibility that our shipping department only grabbed one of the instruction sets you needed.
"If you run a 1.6L miata on all seasons, you will never get here"
I'll just get new pads and some ducting then hehe
Would the front and rear Little Big Brake kit be sufficient for a turbo NB Miata (220whp range) that has been stripped out (around 2300# w/ driver), runs brake ducts, and RBF600 fluid with proper pads (DTC60 or similar), or would I need to step up to a larger brake kit? I like the idea of being able to run cheap OEM rotors that I can run to any parts store for a replacement if one were to crack during a track weekend, but I also like the idea of not running into a tire wall at the end of my session because my brakes have overheated.
I've run it on track with a car in that power and weight range. It really depends on the track - different tracks put different loads on the brakes. Good pads and good ducting help a lot.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Awesome! I plan on building the car up to being able to handle the turbo power before actually putting the turbo in. Brakes are the next thing I am hoping to upgrade
Hey great stuff. I bought ND little big brake kit. That's the only brake modification I have. Running the pads included in the kit. Is this a good set up for track days
We've run many, many laps with that setup. The only problem you might run into is heat management - it's a relatively small pad, so they'll overheat more quickly than a bigger brake setup will. That's going to depend on the track, the tires and the driver.
You definitely dropped a bunch of unsprung mass, though!
@@FlyinMiataVideo think about getting some beefier rotor. Any recc?
@@FlyinMiataVideo and I am gonna run the race brake pads
Apart from calipers and braided hoses, where can I make improvement in overall pedal feel (specifically firmness)? My NC is definitely better with good fresh 600F fluid and braided hoses (and properly bedded track pads) but I'm wondering if there's an upgraded master cylinder with better rigidity or something similar. I know there are also m/cyl braces available but I've been told they don't do much.
Not looking to go for bigger brakes yet, unless maybe i get hold of some RX8 fronts
Master cylinders don’t really have a rigidity problem. The thin sheetmetal they’re bolted to does. You want the mounting point to be as solid as possible.
If you put a larger diameter master cylinder on, you will get less pedal movement. You’ll also have to apply more pedal pressure for the same amount of brake torque. “Bigger” calipers can mean a few different things, see our video on brake caliper tech.
On the NC, a set of stiff calipers has a very large effect on pedal feel.
@@FlyinMiataVideo thanks. So does a MC brace help appreciably?
@@dielaughing73 we've not investigated it on the NC as much, but it's easy to check how much flex there is. Have someone push hard on the pedal while you're looking at the master from the engine bay. If the master moves, you would benefit from a brace.
@@FlyinMiataVideo thanks again
Keith, are you coming out with a book for the ND?
My publisher wants me to do another book but it’s like taking on another full time job so I’m hesitant.
The How To Build A High Performance Miata book applies to the ND quite nicely, though.
This is great!!!
Can we have more content on the Blue NA behind you? I think this miata is “optimized” and not a track monster. This is what I’m trying to do with my nb2.
We did a full tour of that car a while back - check our channel for Car Tour: "Bob".
What is the name of the book? Thanks
How to Build a High Performance Mazda Miata by Keith Tanner
www.amazon.com/Build-High-Performance-Mazda-Motorbooks-Workshop/dp/0760337055/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=how+to+build+a+high+performance+mazda+miata&qid=1584465143&sr=8-1
Nicely done, however, you didn't talk about "drilled or slotted" rotors.
Short version: avoid drilled rotors. Slots can be useful.
Thank you.
Radial floating is a lot less interesting than axial floating... I expected that at least mentioned...
Please mix the person taking questions so you don't need to repeat yourself
Mic
@@cadconnectioninc7043 We have two mics, but they're a bit problematic so we put them both on the presenter to make sure we don't have any dropouts.