How to avoid "Cavalon Nod" gyrocopter pitch control
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- In this film I’m going to try and help what seems to be quite a number of Cavalon pilots that get into what I call "the Cavalon nod" (a movement that makes the Cavalon look like a rocking horse! ) and also those that struggle with directional control in take off or landing.
As usual I’ll explain not only the solution but why it happens in the first place leaving you to make informed choices.
The problem is certainly wide spread and these short clips highlighting the problem show pilots from the UK, Germany and the USA. Obviously I use these clips, not to run people over, but merely to highlight the problem and showing real pilots in real situations demonstrates the actual problems that exist - this isn’t made up.
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Hi Phil, my friends and I appreciate what you are trying to do with your videos and your explanations. However, as an instructor, it would be helpful if you created your own video clips demonstrating the correct way of executing a maneuver and place them right after the video you are critiquing so your audience can see what not to do and how to do things correctly. Also, please give credit to the owners of the videos you are using for demo purposes.
So far you have given good explanations, critiques and highlighting the issues that you see in the videos. We still have not seen any of your videos showing the proper way to execute any of the maneuvers. On TH-cam there are good instructors who also use someone else's video clips of flying planes, helicopters, etc; however, along with discussing the issues in the clip then they show their video clip on how to perform and demonstrate the maneuver correctly. They also acknowledge the usage of that video clip for educational purposes and thank the creators of the video.
I congratulate you on creating a website that helps gyroplane pilots with some of their issues. I hope since it is subscription based, that you will provide your own videos showing the proper way to execute the maneuvers.
I hope those subscribers who send you their videos for critiquing purposes will also receive a video, in turn, from you showing the proper way to execute their maneuvers. This would be a good educational opportunity for you and your subscribers.
Hi - Appreciate the comment but I'm not sure if you have looked at the entire set of films I've made over the last two and a half years but what you ask for [i.e. me showing you how it is done] is exactly what is available.
You can see me flying take offs, landings, vertical descents, unusual attitudes, crosswind landings, wheel balancing, a commentary on rotor management, touring France, flying over water, full review of the popular aircraft in the UK, a well researched complete history of the gyroplane from the aircraft invention to date, starting to cover aircraft not in the UK but popular elsewhere in the world..... you can even see me with my friends in the RAF flying a Eurofighter Typhoon.
So I'm not sure if you've looked, you didn't realise some of the films were of me or you do and you're still somehow unhappy?
If there is something you'd like me to do that you need help with then let me know but in the UK we have been in lockdown over this virus since March and its only been in the last few days solo flight has been possible at all.
Beyond that [and as I highlight in this film] I use other clips not to roast the person flying but because it absolutely shows the real issues people are having. Plus in some cases, where things get frankly so poor its getting dangerous, I'm not a good enough pilot to fly that badly and get away with it consistently! Its would be like watching Les Dawson playing piano - TH-cam is your friend for the non-UK viewer...
On the crediting videos etc. Actually in some cases where the flying is a little marginal I deliberately don't flag who it is in an attempt to save their blushes. Beyond that no comment ever gets deleted so if you recognise yourself in any film I'm happy for you or others to credit themselves. You will appreciate that with me making between 4 and 9 films per WEEK the administrative task starts to become a full-time job.
This whole TH-cam endeavour is for free there is no paid website. I think this TH-cam channel is not only value but its absolutely unique in its promotion of flight safety and the coverage of most aspects of the fundamentals of flying a gyroplane. Indeed every other similar gyroplane instructive effort is behind a paywall and if you have looked behind that paywall I'd be interested in anyones view on how that advice scores v this free advice.
I have to say genuinely it is very much appreciated you taking the time to comment here and giving me a view. I think outside of the video credit point everything else you ask for is on this channel if you look for it. Does that help or have I missed your point?
@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148
I think this and the paywall site are complementary.
PROs of your videos
1. Can cover a lot of diverse topics, and is "entertaining".
2. Almost real-time discussion, and viewer-driven direction.
3. VERY useful to actually SEE and infinitely replay others' mistakes
CONs
1. Only loose, if any, structure to the videos. No substitute for actual stick-time with an instructor, and one-to-one discussion and review.
2. Comments can be hit and miss. Who are the pilots and instructors, as opposed to people just looking at "entertainment"?
3. Risk that some Herberts will try to teach themselves to fly from such videos [I have met a couple], or acquire misunderstandings or "different understandings" which may confuse and frustrate when they do start with an instructor.
I do thank you for your endeavour, and find it useful and very engaging.
Neminem Laedit thank you for that critique appreciate it.
Hi Blades Over Me - if you're looking for instructional content that is specific for Gyroplanes then you should look at iapgt.org/ which has each part of the PPL(G) syllabus broken down with videos, images, a Gyro simulator that you can use to practice manoeuvres, hundred of questions and background reading for ground schools exams. It also doubles as your logbook, has reminders you can set for currency etc... and you can print a report of activity off for your insurer to try to negotiate a lower premium.
For specific techniques with each mode of gyro then you really need comprehensive differences training as they all fly differently, I'd consult an instructor who teaches very regularly on the specific type and spend some time with them before flying or buying that type of Gyro. Blue skies!
@@jasonrwilkinson9216 Oh in all the years I've had the channel I've tried not to get into the IAPGT debate... but unless I delete your comment, which I don't do, you have forced my hand a little.
I don't like IAPGT and personally I wouldn't endorse it.
I could leave it at that but it invites people to come back and ask why. So I'll give a diplomatic view.
I'll leave the value call to those who pay to look behind the IAPGT paywall but I guess the on going subscribers must be happy. Although in fairness it is in the absence of really anything else so perhaps in the future views may change.
However all of the benefits listed are really things your instructor should be able to give to you within his lessons. OK I get the format is packaged conveniently for some and the online logbook some find nicer than an old fashioned paper version. I don't understand who with or how that website lowers your insurance premiums any more than the same activity recorded in a paper logbook? Happy to get some colour that tells it differently. Regards the actual content of the video and information I'll say this. It has been around a year since I last saw the information but some of the detail was poor vis a vis the text matching the videos and why the text is what it was. I found a lot of effort going into the creation of a format that you can puke out and pass a specific flying test and mnemonics and process that in many ways are re-inventions of wheels - in my own view because some of that structure fits very well with the database foundation of IAPGT but little flexibility. So for example one thing I saw (it may have changed you can correct me if I'm wrong) was around precautionary landings with 3 passes over the selected field with heights given (from memory) of 1200ft, 700ft and a low pass maybe at 200ft? but there was no mention around why those numbers were chosen - if indeed it mattered but worse of all how was this 1200/700/200ft gauged? I don't know a gyroplane thats fitted with a RadAlt and so QNH, QFE down at those heights becomes rather irrelevant doesn't it? So you fill the students head with absolute numbers to achieve and all for what? Anyway enough.
In the end if people are happy with it then carry on but I'm just highlighting that I'm not a fan.
As a conventional pilot with zero autogyro experience, I quickly realized how easy it would be to get into trouble.
My first impression was that the pilot was trying to force the Cavalon to fly without sufficient airspeed, BUT your commentary indicated that there are also some quirks that must be allowed for. I want to get into autogyros, so these videos are very much appreciated!
I always tell people that gyros are super-safe because they're really easy to fly and super easy to land, but really hard to take off, reducing the likelihood that someone with no idea what they're doing will accidentally end up taking one off. Of course that means there's a ton of (usually not fatal) takeoff accidents.
I agree! I say the same thing. I'm self taught ( weren't any two seaters to speak of back in the mid 80s ), but I don't think a gyroplane is really too hard to take off if you understand The aerodynamics.
@@StepAttitude Nailed it. You need to know WHY you are doing what you are doing. Numbers don't hack it on their own.
Similarly self-(Bensen) trained. When you KNOW your instructor is an idiot, it makes you very careful/cautious.
I did my training in an M24 and then did some hours in a Cavalon. What I first noticed with the Cavalon was how quickly the nose wheel jumped up and almost startles the unsuspecting pilot. And I tend to agree with video that there is a slight feeling of lack of direction control. The M24 is more measured nose wheel lift and IMHO is easier to takeoff and land, but prefer the Cavalon once up flying.
Hi Rob - yes I’d agree with all of that. Part of the “help” the M24 gives in the take off phase is 1) the rotor head doesn’t allow as much rotor blade inclination as the Cavalon and 2) the straight keel won’t allow the extreme over pitching. As you say in the air it’s different- the M24 stick forces are huge in comparison!
Agree stick forces very high in M24. I overall find Cavalon better to fly. Can maintain cruise 75kt easier, where M24 feels like struggles once get over 65kt. Also Cavalon has lateral trim, bigger fuel tank, and overall build quality etc. On flip side M24 has better visibility and more forgiving takeoff and landing. Guess is all a trade-off. BTW, really enjoy the videos!
All sounds very logical and well founded👍
3:30 Is where the instruction begins
Is this another reason for your suggestion that you do not maintain full aft stick until the nosewheel lifts?
Exactly Trevor - performance aside it just makes things more comfortable as you can see some of these over pitching take offs can get ugly.
Nice vid Phil 👍
Or on Cavalon they can simply move the main wheel axles a few inches back so the ground pivot point on it is a better balancing point
Nope, move it forward
Very interesting
Hi
Excellent video!
Would you kindly elaborate on your comment ..."dump any residual trim pressure "... at 3:15 in this video. Once you change from 'brake' to 'flight' I get the impression that all
the trim pressure is released anyway. But is this not so? Are you advocating application of forward trim at the start of the take-off run?
David Laing
New Zealand
Hi David. Thanks for the question. Yeah couple of things actually on trim. There are two known snags that relate to trim in AutoGyro aircraft generally but it tends to manifest itself more seriously in Cavalon and Calidus because of the general take off characteristic in these rather than the Sport or MT-03 (the older model).
The first is that sometimes I've seen a residual 1 bar left in the system. I'm not entirely sure why because I'm not a pneumatics expert but I have the pneumatic diagram somewhere and I do know that in the last few years the company have changed some components in the system. But certainly in the original aircraft across the entire AutoGyro range there would be residual air pressure (i.e. it would not vent all). Perhaps the pre-rotation process closes the system so it can pressurise the pre-rotation cylinder?
The second snag is the way the stick is arranged some people find it quite difficult to manipulate all of the buttons on the stick and quite a few in bringing the stick aft (after pre-rotation) also activate the trim. In this case what happens is that the pilot is then trimming aft - which of course will encourage nose up pitch. See this accident report:-
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5422ee5140f0b6134600020f/Rotorsport_UK_Calidus_G-ETOJ_Addendum_03-13.pdf
As you can see that was a long answer! So the idea to "dump pressure" really relates to both scenarios, although the later is clearly pilot dependant as some find no issues.
Hope that helps.
@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148
Many thanks for your comprehensive and informative response. Much appreciated.
Your latest Central Lakes video absolutely fantastic. English countryside really is fabulous.
the white cavalon was the owners very first lesson in a gyro. I know as I was the 1 shooting the video and you have copied it off my channel without permission. If you had contacted me I could of given you the information you needed to be correct
Hello Gary - That is great colour although the context of the film is not only far wider than this individual in the white aircraft, as you can see the issue is consistent across the world. However that your friend had issues on his first flight, or his last whilst it might put his own issues into some context it doesn't disprove that the issues exist. Flight safety is surely more about discussing and being open about what issues may exist, there to snag the next pilot than hiding them away? Happily the visuals of a video speak 1000's of words and your friend can take some comfort that hopefully he has become more competent in taking off, he survived those early attempts and he is not alone in having the issue. Fly safely.
Someone called it the Bonanza of gyros.
That implied quite a bit.
If he was referring to the build quality then he was wrong!
He was referring to the ability to strike the ground
Good video . I plan to get a cavalon . I could use a more comprehensive guide on this ussue - You mentioned problems with fuel not in baffled tank , you hinted at weight and balance but no techniques to correct for . In a vanilla 172 I can soft field landing and take off . On cavalon , it seems to me that you do a SF take off and you land very flat . It seems that the glide ratio is prob very low . You prob add power over the field to soften the landing ? Techniques please ...
Hi - Any misunderstanding is my own but not sure if you've explored all of the videos on the channel as likely much of what you are asking for is there. Of course any real specific problems / features is always best dealt with one/one via your actual instructor which ensures that no misunderstanding occurs. To that end regarding the fuel tank - the lack of baffling is part of it the main issue however is that the fuller tank puts a greater % of the overall weight aft. There is no technique to "correct" merely to manage - which is explained in many of my films, namely not to try too hard to wheel balance as that usually finds newer pilots dumped on the tail.
@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148 Dude I wasnt cutting your vid down and nice word salad . But yea I'm sure somewhere in your vid is a solid method as the video seems to imply a way to aviod nosing up and down. There are always techbiques in flying- crabbing into the wind , short field ,soft field to name a few. I am considering buying a gyro so I am doing my research . Your vid talks about lack of tank baffling which is useful to kniw but nothing much in how to adjust for -adjust power pull back stick lightly? nothing like that but yea I'm a flight instructor so maybe I I ask too much . Have a good one .
Hi - all relaxed here. Like I say the channel has a lot films, some over 2 hours long on various elements of gyroplane flight the generics are all discussed. On this "Cavalon nod" the issue is basic over controlling in pitch which stems from a widely taught take off technique that focuses upon "wheel balancing". It bites in a Cavalon because of a variety of things, partly aircraft design - so W&B is part of that, ergonomics another, physics of the arm another, stick force per movement and the take off trimmed position of the aircraft at take off is the final piece.
One thing that differs in AutoGyro brand gyroplanes to a fixed wing is the take off trimmed position because trim in an autogyro is on the same shared pneumatic system as the pre-rotator and so all of the air pressure that is used for trim is lost at pre-rotation, leaving the aircraft effectively heavily nose down pitch for take off. So what happens is this.
Blogs during the ground roll has his stick fully aft for pre-rotation and is trying to find the "wheel balance" which comes at a speed that is slower than the aircraft is able to fully unstick. The stick is fully aft and the nose starts to rise to wheel balance but due to the aircraft W&B that is not at a linear rate. So he tries to relax his aft stick, but now that actually requires some actual movement / force to put the stick foward - but again that forward movement isn't linear. Which leads to the pilot getting out of phase - which then continues to some degree once airborne.
Its a real problem and all of the random 3rd party films of various Cavalons from countries all over the world prove it to be so - as seen in a small way here. Cheers and good luck.
Gyrocopter flying club yea I can see that . It’s a situation where you have to be pretty alert and ahead of the aircraft . Cool man
You'd think by now Auto gyro would have put a baffled tank in it. Wouldn't really cost any more and it would help some.
Those A pillars n a bad spot for visibility and too wide
Assume a tandem seating arrangement better for weight distribution especially for solo
I’m thinking that the rotor should stay level or a bit forward until a sufficient ground speed has been attained then pulling back on the stick.
No what gives that impression?
Gyrocopter flying club , just from my observation of watching several of these videos. The nose wheel always jumps up as if it’s trying to takeoff before any forward speed has been gained. I’ve never flown in a gyro but I am fascinated with them. I’m going to go to the next years Benson Days event and see if I can get a introductory ride.
Arh ok let me explain. The disc does need to be inclined backwards so that airflow can pass through it and create autorotation. If you keep the disc flat then airflow can’t pass underneath the rotors and they don’t turn and consequently have no strength through centrapedal force. In this situation the airflow gets under the blade sections and bends them back. See my rotor management film. Enjoy your flying you’ll enjoy it.
Gyrocopter flying club , I didn’t explain my thought process very well. I was thinking that way after the autorotation was done, then gaining ground speed and the pull back on the stick. I really appreciate the conversation.
rbnhood39 - I think you are confusing prerotation (using power to turn the rotors before the takeoff roll) and autorotation (rotors being turned by the airflow).
If you were to prerotate and then begin your ground roll with the disc inclined forward, you will slow the rotors down. This could lead to all manner of expensive problems including a tail-strike caused by blade-sailing or even a roll-over.
You’ve just used a prerotator to put energy into the blades, now you get the stick back and start your roll - you will be creating a lot of drag by having the disc tilted all the way back like that, but that’s okay - You are trying to increase rotor RPM initially. As the rotor speed increases, you can ease off on the back-pressure and as you’ve decreased the drag a little, build forward speed. Your rotor disc will still be inclined rearwards but not all the way back. In straight and level flight, the rotor disc of a gyro is tilted slightly rearwards whereas the rotor disc of a helicopter is tilted slightly forwards - This is because they operate in very different ways - almost the exact opposite of each other apart from the fact that they both create lift through rotation. A heli pulls air through the rotor from above to create thrust. A gyro uses airflow from underneath to turn the rotors.
You’re missing the main reason, The undercarriage is too far back
the only sure way to cure this is a complete redesign of this so called aircraft
Or watch this film, along with the others I’ve made, ask some specific questions on the gaps or individual issues and bingo. Or people can try and be smug make some quick fire comment, disappear and continue having their issues.
A video about what does not work. We know this and its a problem. Tell me what does work, and ill give you a thumbs up.
Well Bob I’ve made over 100 gyroplane videos, many on technique. I’ve got an email address for people to ask specific questions. I do webinars that last over 2 hours and I am physically around to fly with people. There is also this film. In that context Bob, the constraints of a 3-4min TH-cam film and the wide number of different snags why not tell me your issues and I’ll try and help. As the film alludes- there is no one solution/ silver bullet because not all individual issues are the same.
Very easy solution...fly a different gyro....