Excellent debunk. everything you got is accurate and you didnt even do a full scale of vegeta and shadow. They're both bare minimum 3 layers into outer. Shadow (game) vs Vegeta (Anime) is like a toss up. it dosent matter where you scale them its going to be a extremely close fight for whoever wins.
What you need to debunk is your mic bro 💀💀, all jokes aside yeah, this is a very good video overal. My biggest grip wity Death Battle with sonic is that for some reason they lowball the solaris feat by saiying that nor the 3 hedgehogs are neither strong nor durable as solaria even tho they tank hits and destroy its armor, but then if Super Man knocks out Darksided he's multi versal level, like hello?
It's just stuff to make it much simple for the casual audience. All of that stuff is why people skip these parts altogether. I seen too many reaction channels skipping the rundowns.
@@Unremarkable6969 I usually like the rundowns, sometimes more than the fights, but can't deny most people are really, REALLY not into that powerscaling stuff. I just don't like how some people think Death Battle should be this super extensive thesaurus when people don't really have the patience or attention span for that. I get it can be frustrating at times, but it's understandable, like Static and Dimitri for me weren't discussed as thoroughly in depth on who they are and on how they won their fights for me, they're to entertain, not educate. Still, I can understand why they are sometimes lowballed or cut short, especially the early seasons. Most people don't really care outside of the fight itself.
@@yusifudo46 Fair enough I guess, but Death Battle isn't exactly for general audiences, and it's quite prominent in power scaling circles, and is used by people who don't know better to "prove" a character being able to beat other characters.
The problem with this debate is simple, Shadow is from a universe where consistency and logic are thrown out of the window for the funnies, not a second of thought is put on a standardized powerscaling system and the story is all over the place, Vegeta is from a verse with a mostly consistent powerscaling system, and a linear story, its the same problem with Superman vs Goku, superman fans will pull out some busted superman comic version with absolute garbage writting and call it a day.
@aAaa-gj1lh Other Way Around, The problem with this debate is simple, Vegeta is from a universe where consistency and logic are thrown out of the window for the funnies, not a second of thought is put on a standardized powerscaling system and the story is all over the place, Shadow is from a verse with a mostly consistent powerscaling system, and a linear story, its the same problem with Superman vs Goku, Goku fans will pull out some busted Goku comic version with absolute garbage writing and call it a day.
In terms of their math for SSJ2, they meant that SSJ1 is 5000% of base, and that by adding 5000% more, you get SSJ2. Which ironically, the databook multipliers can be argued against with circumstantial evidence, but yknow
doesn't metal cooler say that instant transmission is his favorite technique, implying he know it and might be able to use it. so he probably doesn't scale but thats it
Well, it's the fact that the two can trade blows and react to each other inside that space, which is stated to transcend time, that's where the feat comes in.
@@Unremarkable6969 eh I don't really agree as they got there in the first place because of the technique so eh. I really personally don't agree with infinite speed or power Dragon ball as it just makes no sense
It doesn't even need to be Vegeta having the Blutz wave machine. Since it's comp, just give Vegeta his tail back since he had it in Saiyan Saga and he can make his own artificial moon.
Compared to timeskip with hit. Shadow can stop time entirely with no slowdown so no matter how fast shadow's opponent is. They won't be able to escape chaos control not even we saw sonic characters move faster than chaos control to break out of it
your video style is very old Idk how to explain it, like your humor and stuff reminds me of these kinds of videos from years ago. It's really nostalgic, I like it. Good job on the video man
I feel like DB does get a break on this episode, this was season 1 before they had multiple researchers and experience, and this was largely just made for fun and nothing more. Yeah, this episode is very flawed, but still. This was before the blogs, that it seems 90% of debunkers don't wanna read and solely look at the episode alone, unrelated, but this is the only point I can complain about that. Good video tho
One thing taht always fucked with me, is the fact the shadow talked himself into running out of super, he does not has NOT TALKED HIMSELF INTO FAILURE. Shadow doesn't even yap like vegeta does! If vegeta kept blabbering and he just kept distracting shadow then sure maybe but SHADOW?????
@@Unremarkable6969 Base Mewtwo in the show got defeated by a Mega Charizard X and was on par with Mew head-to-head. Their powers (From what I’ve seen in Pokken.) can scale up to like planetary level or so but Shadow went beyond that.
@@drybonesmunchakoopas5143 I heard that the creators of Death Battle said the first season of Death Battle was just a joke. I don't believe that necessarily, but this video definitely feels like one.
@@Unremarkable6969 IIRC they meant they didn't take it very seriously when doing research and stuff Tho, to be honest, even a lot of the later battles are wrong.
@@drybonesmunchakoopas5143 well yeah, but they definitely got a lot better. I actually end up agreeing with them more often than not, like with Gojo VS Makima.
That video was over ten years ago back then scaling as a whole was a hugely different concept their scaling is terrible because of course it’s terrible they are the first to do that kind of thing I don’t mind you correcting them but it comes off as harsh considering they did their best for the time
I’m pretty sure the reason why the chaos emeralds are allowed when the machine isn’t is because Shadow regularly carries the emeralds on his person. Vegeta never even drives the machine, ever.
Oh, look at this a channel that does power scaling and explains in a way that people can "understand." This is nice, anyway. Aside from both franchises having some peculiar power scaling, the winner would be Shadow. There is no doubt about this, dare I say even to the current DB media/lore, "But that is for another day". Ignoring his immortality, he is keeping up with Sonic, have huge power/ skills, and now that his "limiter rings are canon, and have an explanation," I think that he would easily win. I still, however, will think that his Super form is inferior compared to the other characters to off-set him being too strong, as stated in his dialogue in SA2, "Yes, I know the timeline reset and all, but he has to have some downsides". Sorry for the english if its bad, got a lil lazy in the end, and thanks if ya read all, god bless and take care.
I don't think Shadow's Super Form is inferior, per se. He's pretty balanced considering the strain taking off his rings induces on him. Taking them off isn't a free power boost, but comes at a cost.
@@ZioEndling I see. After reading my own comment, I noticed that perhaps my poor wording may imply that his super form is worse than the rest of the super form that other characters, while your point is valid that what I said can be crazy. Elaborating a little better. I meant was that his form lasts shorter if we compare it to the rest of the characters that can transform, especially shorter if he removes the "limiter ring". The concept of my idea is that his super acts like a kaioken buff, in his case, he receives the super buff + a multiplier with his chaos energy a "Goku blue kaioken" if we were to compare. His super form and strength are more powerful than the rest, but they drain him more. This is to off-set his already powerful base state and skills, there are some limitations/feats that even Shadow can't do, like using the fake emerald to use chaos control. Oh, and yeah, I am aware in the "new" generations game that his base form behaved like base Sonic, Shadow was on fire, "base" form, and beating powerful enemies that he counted beat in the past. That was an impressive feat
@@gabrieleduardo7304 I don't think his Super form should be shorter. It hasn't been a problem for him since SA2 and anytime afterwards, he's adapted to the Chaos Energy rather easily to be in the form normally. He's said to be Sonic's equal, so no point in nerfing in in post. Doesn't make sense. I can see his Super form being shorter if he took off a ring maybe, but not shorter generally. Also, Super forms aren't kaioken transformations for anyone. They're exponential increases that are empowered by the enrichment of the heart. They have no set multiplier and they don't put strain on anyone unless you're literally trying to overdo it. There's no need to "off-set" anything when Sonic can swap hands with Shadow on equal terms. There's not really a problem with power creep in the Sonic world. Everyone generally scales to one another. Powerscaling doesn't really exist in the Sonic world as much as it does Dragon Ball.
@@ZioEndling I know, I guess my dea to "off-set" balance him can break the lore atm and I should accept the logic/facts, and focus on the problem that was the lore that this franchise used to have a very terrible case of not being consistent, thankfully the franchise is getting more coerent atm. Btw sorry if the english sucked, in any case if I notice/feedback is that this was unreadable, I write in my native language and ya translate, and 🎃happy halloween🎃
@@gabrieleduardo7304 No you're good. Also, there's no reason to try to balance Shadow he's already balanced and he scales to Sonic, he doesn't need any nerfing.
Vegeta....doesn't have immeasurable speed through scaling because the quote you're using is incorrect and is directly contradicted by the quotes of the otherworld.... Thanks for not adressing it on your other video though. Even in the non canon anime Kid Boo is NEVER stated to be able to one shot heaven even in what you showed. The Grand Kais realm is 1/10 of the size of the macrocosm which at the time of writing that was only 3x the size of the universe, hence making it a less than universal feat. Which is why BoG low-multi feat was impressive.
@@teeboz6237 How does the Otherworld quotes make my statements on Vegeta having immeasurable speed invalid? Also, you are correct. Kid Buu is actually implied to be capable of one shotting the Grand Kaio's world, which itself holds another universe sized space inside of it. As for BoG, I'll probably end up explaining that in another video soon. But from what I know now, feats in the DBZ anime like the Kid Buu Grand Kaio feat and the Buuhan feat, they don't apply to the DBS anime.
@@Unremarkable6969where is it in canon stated the Grand Kais planet holds universal sized universes when it’s literally stated to be 1/10th the size of the macrocosm which is in turn only 3x the size of the universe? 4x if you include Brolys movie. The speed “feat” is invalid because no time or beyond the concept of time is the exact same thing that’s stated about the otherworld, including King Kai’s planet as that’s the actual illustration used with the statement. So according to that, anyone in otherworld has immeasurable speed because they can move in a realm “beyond space and time”. That’s what GT fans seem to miss out. So normal humans have immeasurable speed by this metric. This is simply factual. In terms of the anime, the DBS anime is as much a part of the TOEI verse as GT. Only better continuity. The GT verse isn’t even a part of the Z anime. Having Cooler messes everything up. How can Dende be appointed guardian before AND after the RoSaT? How can Goku and Vegeta before the RoSaT be both stronger AND weaker than fused Piccolo? How can they both be on earth AND on Namek before the Cell Games but not be in the 10 day time skip and Goku be in a coma? But yes, the Super anime has Trunks’ past/future being what it was in the anime, not the manga. So it’s part of the anime. It shows direct clips from the anime from the Boo arc so it’s part of the anime. Lastly, Kid Boo isn’t implied to be able to do anything. His intentions are stated in the anime. That’s it. King Piccolos intentions were to kill every human and eventually destroy earth which he directly threatened to do. Does that mean he could have done it in one go when Vegeta is the first actual planet buster in DB?
Why shadow wins. Well base sonic is low complex multiversal. And the verse contains super string theory. Solaris was going to destroy everything. So shadow in his super form is high complex multiversal.
@@Oreo_166 In the Fusion Reborn film, it's stated that Gogeta's transformation awakened his unlimited/infinite power. While at first you can just say that it would be Low 2-C at face value since 4-D is technically infinite, the fact you have to awaken that power as a 4-D being makes it more evident that it's Infinite 4-D. If you want to argue that it took SS GOGETA to awaken such power and say it's Low 2-C, then that contradicts many statements back in the FRIEZA ARC which support characters having infinite 3-D power and also Goku having his first finite 4-D feat as a Super Saiyan 3 against Fat buu.
Even in base, Shadow is actually no-diffing. He doesn't really need Super if you consider Secret Rings and Sonic Shuffle scaling. In Secret Rings, a weakened Base Sonic was capable of swapping hands with an Erazor Djinn who was absorbing the 1000+ Arabian Nights stories at an accelerated rate and even threatening the Real World. So that is bare minimum Low-Multiversal and that's with a WEAKENED Sonic since his life-force was being drained. Keep note that Shadow has been consistently stated to be equal to Sonic, so he'd scale to Sonic's feats, too. Then you have Sonic (and friends) being one of the four people to take on Void (5-D being who was above everything in Maginaryworld, which housed a 4-D Space, which Sonic (and friends) ALSO traversed through). Being able to so much as damage a 5-D being follows similar logic to the Infinity divided by X. So Shadow is contending with THAT regularly. And these are feats from 13-17 years ago. Yeah, Vegeta's getting RATHER cooked here.
@@JustSomeGokuEnjoyer2 If we're using current Shadow and Current DBS Vegeta, Shadow would still probably win. He is consistently stated to be on par with Sonic, who has higher dimensional feats. I didn't even mention the Egg Salamander or the Egg Wizard, or the Time Eater and The End.
@@Unremarkable6969 it's up for debate , sonic vs dragon ball in general does not have the most clear cut winners, I think Vegeta would win against current shadow but I see why everyone wouldn't agree( I genuinely don't see how people used to think that Vegeta as a SSJ2 used to win tho😭🙏)
I disagree with the infinite power thing for vegeta. In context the androids having infinite power means that have an amount of power not infinite IN power. Meaning the droids just can't run out of energy not that they're infinity strong. Plus solaris at worst down play is 6D wich is n Beyond even current vegeta. Shadow solos negg diff
3:45 The blutz wave machine would require a person to pilot it. Having no evidence he can do it himself, an outsider would b needed for it. On the other hand, shadow can just carry the emeralds on his person and use their power on his own. Giving shadow the Emeralds is not the same as giving vegeta the blutz wave machine. 5:05 I think they used archie as well, these were the early days of sonic in db so i think that would count; but even if u disregarded the archie and idw comics, the Emeralds have been stated to house unlimited power since adventure 1, if not earlier than that. So yeah, super forms have unlimited power. Which only makes sense considering... Solaris. 6:10 As far as determining a victor, only one of them has fought a casual timeline buster... and it wasn't vegeta. Hey... I'm just saiyan.🤷♂️
Db fans aren't any better when it comes to that 😅 especially on shorts videos when Goku is up against other characters that can beat him and the verse in the comments sections.
metal cooler movie is not canon to original dbz and instant transmission thing also dont work because both goku and cooler use instant transmission its not like being super fast
@@turkishbadger It's not canon to the manga, but Cooler is seen in GT, meaning his movies are canon to the Toeiverse, the version of Vegeta used for my scaling.
@@JoaquinThompson-t9h Trunks VS Silver, I don't know too much about Xenoverse/Heroes or Archie scaling. I'll do some research and work something out, potentially.
Debunking a season 1 episode in the big 2024 is insane. They did not care about scaling until season 3 and didn't have a research team until season 5ish
@@BegitoBrah You just have to watch, like, a single episode of DBZ to know that they still got a lot of stuff wrong. Cell's most powerful attack is called the SOLAR Kamehameha.
The movies are cannon, they just take place in a different universe. You could make the argument that those feats cross over. Either way it doesn’t really change the scaling that much if at all.
Uhhhhh sub or something
Excellent debunk. everything you got is accurate and you didnt even do a full scale of vegeta and shadow. They're both bare minimum 3 layers into outer. Shadow (game) vs Vegeta (Anime) is like a toss up. it dosent matter where you scale them its going to be a extremely close fight for whoever wins.
Do you think you could Debunk Metal Sonic vs Zero (or at least talk about it)
This Death Battle us the most deserving of a round 2.
it's been 13 years my guy you gotta let go
@@kingcorporeal *taps my pfp
@@Unremarkable6969you should’ve just said “no” that would’ve been too funny lol
@@EmeraldBlade98 I'm not gonna hide I'm biased
No, let him cook.
It bothers me to this day.
@@Unremarkable6969Nah. You’re not biased. You’re trying to defeat the biased.
What you need to debunk is your mic bro 💀💀,
all jokes aside yeah, this is a very good video overal.
My biggest grip wity Death Battle with sonic is that for some reason they lowball the solaris feat by saiying that nor the 3 hedgehogs are neither strong nor durable as solaria even tho they tank hits and destroy its armor, but then if Super Man knocks out Darksided he's multi versal level, like hello?
@@cnk9822 "debunk your mic"
Damn
@@Unremarkable6969 💀
Shadow is MUCH stronger than Vegeta. Giving his super form only 1000% buff was just an outright lie.
It's just stuff to make it much simple for the casual audience. All of that stuff is why people skip these parts altogether. I seen too many reaction channels skipping the rundowns.
@@yusifudo46 That's my favorite part of the video though. I usually end up skipping the fights honestly, cause that's not why I watch Death Battle.
@@Unremarkable6969 I usually like the rundowns, sometimes more than the fights, but can't deny most people are really, REALLY not into that powerscaling stuff. I just don't like how some people think Death Battle should be this super extensive thesaurus when people don't really have the patience or attention span for that. I get it can be frustrating at times, but it's understandable, like Static and Dimitri for me weren't discussed as thoroughly in depth on who they are and on how they won their fights for me, they're to entertain, not educate. Still, I can understand why they are sometimes lowballed or cut short, especially the early seasons. Most people don't really care outside of the fight itself.
@@yusifudo46 Fair enough I guess, but Death Battle isn't exactly for general audiences, and it's quite prominent in power scaling circles, and is used by people who don't know better to "prove" a character being able to beat other characters.
The problem with this debate is simple, Shadow is from a universe where consistency and logic are thrown out of the window for the funnies, not a second of thought is put on a standardized powerscaling system and the story is all over the place, Vegeta is from a verse with a mostly consistent powerscaling system, and a linear story, its the same problem with Superman vs Goku, superman fans will pull out some busted superman comic version with absolute garbage writting and call it a day.
Sonic characters kill God basically every game, it's not even fair. (Chaos, Solaris, Dark Gaia, ect.)
Exactly. Then they say scaling doesn’t exist but use him sneezing a galaxy away to scale later iterations above that version 😂😂
@aAaa-gj1lh Other Way Around, The problem with this debate is simple, Vegeta is from a universe where consistency and logic are thrown out of the window for the funnies, not a second of thought is put on a standardized powerscaling system and the story is all over the place, Shadow is from a verse with a mostly consistent powerscaling system, and a linear story, its the same problem with Superman vs Goku, Goku fans will pull out some busted Goku comic version with absolute garbage writing and call it a day.
I like how even though you said shadow wins, you also pointed out the lowball in vegetas scaling which is fair for both
Shadow has better feats and haxs
I would agree.
Same
Debunking a season 1 episode is just ridiculous, but still you are correct
I found someone saying Shadow vs Vegeta was debunked and I knew you were the one that debunked it lol
SOMEONE! Share this with Death Battle!
No, no. That's okay.
In terms of their math for SSJ2, they meant that SSJ1 is 5000% of base, and that by adding 5000% more, you get SSJ2.
Which ironically, the databook multipliers can be argued against with circumstantial evidence, but yknow
But that’s the problem with DBZ power levels. It’s nice that there’s an official source to scale power levels but it then gets inconsistent later on.
@@TheRobloxianBeatSabertist Wym "But"? We agree on that lol
At least Vegeta is a DBZ character. Bro lost to Mewtwo and then lost his only shot for that runback
I'm coming after the Mewtwo video
Death battle doesn't scale right at all it should be common sense
Well yeah but it's still fun to pick it apart
This video is 13 years old, of course they got it wrong.
doesn't metal cooler say that instant transmission is his favorite technique, implying he know it and might be able to use it. so he probably doesn't scale but thats it
Well, it's the fact that the two can trade blows and react to each other inside that space, which is stated to transcend time, that's where the feat comes in.
@@Unremarkable6969 eh I don't really agree as they got there in the first place because of the technique so eh. I really personally don't agree with infinite speed or power Dragon ball as it just makes no sense
@@plazmasix6694 Fair enough, there's definitely a more skeptical/conservative way to scale DB.
swear this guys content is just like dumbsville, so goated
This means so much, Dumbsville is my senpai
It doesn't even need to be Vegeta having the Blutz wave machine. Since it's comp, just give Vegeta his tail back since he had it in Saiyan Saga and he can make his own artificial moon.
Yeah see you know what's up
Compared to timeskip with hit.
Shadow can stop time entirely with no slowdown so no matter how fast shadow's opponent is. They won't be able to escape chaos control not even we saw sonic characters move faster than chaos control to break out of it
your video style is very old Idk how to explain it, like your humor and stuff reminds me of these kinds of videos from years ago. It's really nostalgic, I like it. Good job on the video man
Dumbsville was my main inspiration.
You’re right for everything for Shadow, but Ian Flynn stated in Frontiers that the IDW series is canon to the Main title.
@@aireiswhitfield7 Yes, however IDW did not start it's run until much after this video was posted
Shadow literally one shots
I feel like DB does get a break on this episode, this was season 1 before they had multiple researchers and experience, and this was largely just made for fun and nothing more. Yeah, this episode is very flawed, but still. This was before the blogs, that it seems 90% of debunkers don't wanna read and solely look at the episode alone, unrelated, but this is the only point I can complain about that.
Good video tho
Fair enough, but my pfp is of the U.L.F.
W vid and Debunk🔥
One thing taht always fucked with me, is the fact the shadow talked himself into running out of super, he does not has NOT TALKED HIMSELF INTO FAILURE.
Shadow doesn't even yap like vegeta does! If vegeta kept blabbering and he just kept distracting shadow then sure maybe but SHADOW?????
The Shadow that fought Black Doom and Mephilis wasn't a chatter box
I’m going to subscribe so you can buy a better mic
(Although this vid was peak keep it up)
Hella good debunk! How’d you feel about debunking Shadow vs Mewtwo? 👀
@@Oreo_166 I'd be 100% down, I don't know too much about Pokemon scaling but yeah.
@@Unremarkable6969 Base Mewtwo in the show got defeated by a Mega Charizard X and was on par with Mew head-to-head. Their powers (From what I’ve seen in Pokken.) can scale up to like planetary level or so but Shadow went beyond that.
I remember this godawful battle, good to see it debunked
@@drybonesmunchakoopas5143 I heard that the creators of Death Battle said the first season of Death Battle was just a joke. I don't believe that necessarily, but this video definitely feels like one.
@@Unremarkable6969 IIRC they meant they didn't take it very seriously when doing research and stuff
Tho, to be honest, even a lot of the later battles are wrong.
@@drybonesmunchakoopas5143 well yeah, but they definitely got a lot better. I actually end up agreeing with them more often than not, like with Gojo VS Makima.
@@Unremarkable6969 I do agree they got better overall. But they still have some misses
Then again nobody is perfect
That video was over ten years ago back then scaling as a whole was a hugely different concept their scaling is terrible because of course it’s terrible they are the first to do that kind of thing I don’t mind you correcting them but it comes off as harsh considering they did their best for the time
Fair enough, I suppose. And I have no hate for Death Battle, so if I came off as hostile or anything of the sort, that wasn't my intention.
@@Unremarkable6969 I didn’t think so but yea other than that great video
@@Goober12345 appreciated 👍
@@Unremarkable6969 nah fuck death battle. they dont know how to scale for shit.
I’m pretty sure the reason why the chaos emeralds are allowed when the machine isn’t is because Shadow regularly carries the emeralds on his person. Vegeta never even drives the machine, ever.
Oh, look at this a channel that does power scaling and explains in a way that people can "understand." This is nice, anyway.
Aside from both franchises having some peculiar power scaling, the winner would be Shadow. There is no doubt about this, dare I say even to the current DB media/lore, "But that is for another day".
Ignoring his immortality, he is keeping up with Sonic, have huge power/ skills, and now that his "limiter rings are canon, and have an explanation," I think that he would easily win.
I still, however, will think that his Super form is inferior compared to the other characters to off-set him being too strong, as stated in his dialogue in SA2, "Yes, I know the timeline reset and all, but he has to have some downsides".
Sorry for the english if its bad, got a lil lazy in the end, and thanks if ya read all, god bless and take care.
I don't think Shadow's Super Form is inferior, per se. He's pretty balanced considering the strain taking off his rings induces on him. Taking them off isn't a free power boost, but comes at a cost.
@@ZioEndling I see. After reading my own comment, I noticed that perhaps my poor wording may imply that his super form is worse than the rest of the super form that other characters, while your point is valid that what I said can be crazy.
Elaborating a little better.
I meant was that his form lasts shorter if we compare it to the rest of the characters that can transform, especially shorter if he removes the "limiter ring".
The concept of my idea is that his super acts like a kaioken buff, in his case, he receives the super buff + a multiplier with his chaos energy a "Goku blue kaioken" if we were to compare.
His super form and strength are more powerful than the rest, but they drain him more. This is to off-set his already powerful base state and skills, there are some limitations/feats that even Shadow can't do, like using the fake emerald to use chaos control.
Oh, and yeah, I am aware in the "new" generations game that his base form behaved like base Sonic, Shadow was on fire, "base" form, and beating powerful enemies that he counted beat in the past. That was an impressive feat
@@gabrieleduardo7304 I don't think his Super form should be shorter. It hasn't been a problem for him since SA2 and anytime afterwards, he's adapted to the Chaos Energy rather easily to be in the form normally. He's said to be Sonic's equal, so no point in nerfing in in post. Doesn't make sense. I can see his Super form being shorter if he took off a ring maybe, but not shorter generally. Also, Super forms aren't kaioken transformations for anyone. They're exponential increases that are empowered by the enrichment of the heart. They have no set multiplier and they don't put strain on anyone unless you're literally trying to overdo it.
There's no need to "off-set" anything when Sonic can swap hands with Shadow on equal terms. There's not really a problem with power creep in the Sonic world. Everyone generally scales to one another. Powerscaling doesn't really exist in the Sonic world as much as it does Dragon Ball.
@@ZioEndling I know, I guess my dea to "off-set" balance him can break the lore atm and I should accept the logic/facts, and focus on the problem that was the lore that this franchise used to have a very terrible case of not being consistent, thankfully the franchise is getting more coerent atm.
Btw sorry if the english sucked, in any case if I notice/feedback is that this was unreadable, I write in my native language and ya translate, and 🎃happy halloween🎃
@@gabrieleduardo7304 No you're good. Also, there's no reason to try to balance Shadow he's already balanced and he scales to Sonic, he doesn't need any nerfing.
I’m aware that this doesn’t account for future content but now Shadow is capable of taking on Metal Overlord in a 1v1
If I ever do my own Shadow VS Vegeta, that'll be taken into account
@ SEGA trying not to repeatedly buff all its characters while making absolutely banger games (SxS Gen was so good IGN actually gave it a high score-)
hyper shadow solos
if he existed
Hyper Shadic solos verse
Vegeta....doesn't have immeasurable speed through scaling because the quote you're using is incorrect and is directly contradicted by the quotes of the otherworld....
Thanks for not adressing it on your other video though.
Even in the non canon anime Kid Boo is NEVER stated to be able to one shot heaven even in what you showed. The Grand Kais realm is 1/10 of the size of the macrocosm which at the time of writing that was only 3x the size of the universe, hence making it a less than universal feat. Which is why BoG low-multi feat was impressive.
@@teeboz6237 How does the Otherworld quotes make my statements on Vegeta having immeasurable speed invalid?
Also, you are correct. Kid Buu is actually implied to be capable of one shotting the Grand Kaio's world, which itself holds another universe sized space inside of it.
As for BoG, I'll probably end up explaining that in another video soon. But from what I know now, feats in the DBZ anime like the Kid Buu Grand Kaio feat and the Buuhan feat, they don't apply to the DBS anime.
@@Unremarkable6969where is it in canon stated the Grand Kais planet holds universal sized universes when it’s literally stated to be 1/10th the size of the macrocosm which is in turn only 3x the size of the universe? 4x if you include Brolys movie.
The speed “feat” is invalid because no time or beyond the concept of time is the exact same thing that’s stated about the otherworld, including King Kai’s planet as that’s the actual illustration used with the statement. So according to that, anyone in otherworld has immeasurable speed because they can move in a realm “beyond space and time”. That’s what GT fans seem to miss out. So normal humans have immeasurable speed by this metric. This is simply factual.
In terms of the anime, the DBS anime is as much a part of the TOEI verse as GT. Only better continuity. The GT verse isn’t even a part of the Z anime. Having Cooler messes everything up. How can Dende be appointed guardian before AND after the RoSaT? How can Goku and Vegeta before the RoSaT be both stronger AND weaker than fused Piccolo? How can they both be on earth AND on Namek before the Cell Games but not be in the 10 day time skip and Goku be in a coma?
But yes, the Super anime has Trunks’ past/future being what it was in the anime, not the manga. So it’s part of the anime. It shows direct clips from the anime from the Boo arc so it’s part of the anime.
Lastly, Kid Boo isn’t implied to be able to do anything. His intentions are stated in the anime. That’s it. King Piccolos intentions were to kill every human and eventually destroy earth which he directly threatened to do. Does that mean he could have done it in one go when Vegeta is the first actual planet buster in DB?
To be honest game Shadow is no diffing this fight 😂 even if it was super.
@@Kojin1104 see, this man knows what's up
@@Unremarkable6969definitely subbed I’m tired of explaining how absolutely strong sonic and shadow are.
Bro is 13 years already, everyone already know it's wrong by this point 😭
Okay and?
@@Unremarkable6969 Why don't make a debunk of a fairly recent video?
@@andrerezende9002 My first debunk was on Bardock VS Omni-Man. Also, because I like Shadow.
Why shadow wins.
Well base sonic is low complex multiversal. And the verse contains super string theory. Solaris was going to destroy everything. So shadow in his super form is high complex multiversal.
The verdict was correct but I agree with the debunk.
Using from the time period this was made in
Vegeta - 2-A
Shadow - 2-C
Vegeta 2-A?? In what way?
@@Oreo_166 In the Fusion Reborn film, it's stated that Gogeta's transformation awakened his unlimited/infinite power. While at first you can just say that it would be Low 2-C at face value since 4-D is technically infinite, the fact you have to awaken that power as a 4-D being makes it more evident that it's Infinite 4-D. If you want to argue that it took SS GOGETA to awaken such power and say it's Low 2-C, then that contradicts many statements back in the FRIEZA ARC which support characters having infinite 3-D power and also Goku having his first finite 4-D feat as a Super Saiyan 3 against Fat buu.
Pretty sure Shadow is 5-D to 6-D.
They used Archie feats and he still lost😭
1:21 dude yujiro from bajki tanks nuclear bombs, Vegeta can take s*** like that as a child
Bejitasisters our response to JOBBING to CHADow?
Bejita (Vegeta's original Japanese name) spotted
Bejita (Vegeta's original Japanese name) spotted
@@Unremarkable6969Dementia moment
What was that intro?😂
Nah that's TFS Vegeta
Who caps out at like... Large planet level. Dwarf star if you're being generous. Oof. Base Shadow kicks his ass lol
Shadow was able beat solares in the past
Even in base, Shadow is actually no-diffing. He doesn't really need Super if you consider Secret Rings and Sonic Shuffle scaling.
In Secret Rings, a weakened Base Sonic was capable of swapping hands with an Erazor Djinn who was absorbing the 1000+ Arabian Nights stories at an accelerated rate and even threatening the Real World. So that is bare minimum Low-Multiversal and that's with a WEAKENED Sonic since his life-force was being drained. Keep note that Shadow has been consistently stated to be equal to Sonic, so he'd scale to Sonic's feats, too.
Then you have Sonic (and friends) being one of the four people to take on Void (5-D being who was above everything in Maginaryworld, which housed a 4-D Space, which Sonic (and friends) ALSO traversed through). Being able to so much as damage a 5-D being follows similar logic to the Infinity divided by X. So Shadow is contending with THAT regularly. And these are feats from 13-17 years ago. Yeah, Vegeta's getting RATHER cooked here.
Sonic don't have a limiter to his potential lol so does shadow
Shadow would CLAP SSJ 2 Vegeta bruh 😭🙏 i personally think that current Vegeta from DBS would win tho
@@JustSomeGokuEnjoyer2 If we're using current Shadow and Current DBS Vegeta, Shadow would still probably win. He is consistently stated to be on par with Sonic, who has higher dimensional feats. I didn't even mention the Egg Salamander or the Egg Wizard, or the Time Eater and The End.
@@Unremarkable6969 it's up for debate , sonic vs dragon ball in general does not have the most clear cut winners, I think Vegeta would win against current shadow but I see why everyone wouldn't agree( I genuinely don't see how people used to think that Vegeta as a SSJ2 used to win tho😭🙏)
@@JustSomeGokuEnjoyer2 fair enough
@@Unremarkable6969There’s a lot of them for Goku and Vegeta. Interesting fight nonetheless.
@@sauceyburger There is, but none of those statements apply to DBS, I believe.
I disagree with the infinite power thing for vegeta. In context the androids having infinite power means that have an amount of power not infinite IN power. Meaning the droids just can't run out of energy not that they're infinity strong. Plus solaris at worst down play is 6D wich is n
Beyond even current vegeta.
Shadow solos negg diff
Bruh shadow slams. Superdimentional = outerversal
Dbs can compete though.
@@santadipbiswas9266 super competes with a Super Dimensional being?
Ssj4 wasn't used because a sprit didn't exist😂
Damn.
Well that makes sense at least.
Sonic and shadow doesn't have a potential limit
3:45
The blutz wave machine would require a person to pilot it. Having no evidence he can do it himself, an outsider would b needed for it. On the other hand, shadow can just carry the emeralds on his person and use their power on his own. Giving shadow the Emeralds is not the same as giving vegeta the blutz wave machine.
5:05
I think they used archie as well, these were the early days of sonic in db so i think that would count; but even if u disregarded the archie and idw comics, the Emeralds have been stated to house unlimited power since adventure 1, if not earlier than that. So yeah, super forms have unlimited power. Which only makes sense considering... Solaris.
6:10
As far as determining a victor, only one of them has fought a casual timeline buster... and it wasn't vegeta.
Hey... I'm just saiyan.🤷♂️
Nice mic
*munch munch munch*
Sonic PFP detected Opinion Rejected
Db fans aren't any better when it comes to that 😅 especially on shorts videos when Goku is up against other characters that can beat him and the verse in the comments sections.
@@Ungrounded-jay real
Vegeta pfp detected
If Anything this guy is one of the best people i watched that also know dragon ball pretty well, like, even better than me even tho im a db fan 💀
@@Unremarkable6969 fair enough
More.
Welp, guess I'll make more
0:07
WTF?
metal cooler movie is not canon to original dbz and instant transmission thing also dont work because both goku and cooler use instant transmission its not like being super fast
@@turkishbadger It's not canon to the manga, but Cooler is seen in GT, meaning his movies are canon to the Toeiverse, the version of Vegeta used for my scaling.
@@Unremarkable6969 👍
@@turkishbadger 👍
@@Unremarkable6969The “Toeiverse” is not a real thing lmfao.
@@thelettucebarrel7784 It is.
using sonic shuffle as a feat is insane
@@buunopoly I know my stuff
@@Unremarkable6969 so if your using somic shuffle as a feat then tails is mftl?
@@buunopoly Tails keeps up with Sonic, ofc he is.
Hell, Super speed is a trait of all hedgehogs in the Sonic series, so Amy is also mftl.
@@Unremarkable6969 no he isnt because tails needed to get freed by sonic
Shadow wins
Yes
@@Unremarkable6969 sonic and shadow don't have a speed limit they speed increase every game
First of all, he is Vegeta. Second of all Shadow is not Vegeta. Third of all he wants to be Vegeta but he cant be Vegeta because Vegeta is Vegeta.
Sonic has infinite power shadow killed a devil
Could you debunk trunks vs silver the most recent one
@@JoaquinThompson-t9h Trunks VS Silver, I don't know too much about Xenoverse/Heroes or Archie scaling. I'll do some research and work something out, potentially.
That dosent need a debunk because it's accurate. Archie Sonic scaling is wanked.
I really enjoyed the video like not subbing will be crime
@@a_guy_in_the_internet you're gonna make my heart explode
@@Unremarkable6969 anytime bro
Okay seriously-
thanks man like i really appreciate it the reply itself made the heart explode
Lol this video :3
Yep. Lol. This Video
Lol this video
Debunking a season 1 episode in the big 2024 is insane. They did not care about scaling until season 3 and didn't have a research team until season 5ish
@@BegitoBrah You just have to watch, like, a single episode of DBZ to know that they still got a lot of stuff wrong. Cell's most powerful attack is called the SOLAR Kamehameha.
And Vegeta > Cell in the Buu Saga.
1:04 that isn’t even canon bro 😭
@@DarkTemple34 It is canon to the Toeiverse, Cooler is seen in GT meaning his movies are canon to the Z anime continuity.
@@Unremarkable6969 I agree it's canon to GT and toei, but some of the movies are weird and contradict the anime. Whats your discord?
The movies are cannon, they just take place in a different universe. You could make the argument that those feats cross over. Either way it doesn’t really change the scaling that much if at all.
Sonic and shadow doesn't have a potential limit
Sonic has infinite power shadow killed a devil
Lol this video
Lol this video
Lol this video