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Your reviews do keep being fraudulent. You are fully aware how important it is to have perfect fit when using a watch with optical HRM-sensor for a good result - yet it's only the Apple Watches that you review with wristbands that are stepless so you can get a perfect fit on your wrist. Giving one brand advantages makes your reviews unreliable. Why do you not review all watches with similar conditions? Also.. Not mentioning the names and order of each workout who's data is included in each graph makes it impossible to trust your reviews. You could be cherrypicking good results - if you want the watch to seem to perform great. Like with the Apple Watch, that you already are giving an advantage with a better strap. How can we the viewers know if you also are cherrypicking sessions where the data is good.. And with Garmin F8, band with steps..maybe you also only picked sessions with bad performance. We can never know.
In what way? Number one rule of comparable scientific results = similar conditions. Second rule = Be open with the data. Neither of this is Rob. He does not use the devices under similar conditions. Some devices are given advantages, other don't - without mentioning it. And exactly zero of the data is open to be reviewed. None.. He could be cherrypicking the shit out of the data, in favor of the highest bidder. Or completely fabricating it. We have no way of knowing.
@@carlemilsson4114 well. I could agree with you in an imaginary world made of ISO or DIN standards. But the real world is different from the laboratory conditions. The sleep stages recorded are obviously different each others, so how could be possible to repeat them? The HR measurement depends on various parameters, including sweat and dirty on the skin. A watch in 2-3 months can change the software and the algorithms, changing the "results". The two wrists measure different HR. Considering the variability of real conditions, Robs gives us a summary of his experiences plotting the graphs, and he is the only constant in this work (when there is someone else, there are different graphs). All other conditions can vary because every day for us is different from the previous one. The only info that can't be plotted, the variability of results and how it happens, is explained during the videos (where is necessary the "cherrypicking" to put in evidence features or problems that are not constantly present).The number of dots in the graphs gives us an idea of the number of data. Rob is not a regulatory body, but a content creator on TH-cam. I don't know any reviewer realising raw data (when there are data!), so why Rob should do it? In every video in this channel there are various caveat on the universality of the results presented. So...
@@carlemilsson4114 Hm, to be fair, I know none, zero, 0 youtube channels which offer their data to download for the viewers. So you are claiming unfairness, while the fair thing is that no one else offers this either. You seem very angry at this guy, as I saw similar comments of yours before. This is very strange. Are you aware that this is just a yt channel of a guy, and the world is out there and this channel alone have close to zero impact on how everything is? I mean, leave your comment once, and then do not return if the content hurts your views. Even better! Create your own channel, where you are fair, according your own views.
An $1100 fitness watch performing that bad is criminal. What’s up with these watches getting worse with each new iteration lately? Only one improving slightly are Apple Watches.
To me, you're not covering the whole picture. If we're talking about the heart rate sensor, Apple Watch is the best. But Garmin has many more features, HRV throughout the night (Apple Watch does 1-2 random measurements), sports functions like Training Load, Readiness Score, Stress, Body Battery, etc... Not to mention that it has built-in maps, the battery lasts at least 2 weeks, etc.
@ heart rate sensor is the basis for all things training. If you’re heart rate sensor is off then everything else is off. As an athlete, if I’m training for a marathon, how will I know my recovery score if there is a vast deviation between what the Garmin is saying versus how my body really is. And yeah, Garmin is a fitness watch not a smart watch, it has none of the smart features (third party apps), because it uses a “dumber” lower power draining chip, so of course it’ll last longer. What’s more important, accurate heart sensors for accurate training or longer battery life?
@@BruceLeeRoy26 I understand what you're saying, but it's only really bad if you do strength training, otherwise it's pretty decent. Also, not having a 100% correlation during exercise means that it will measure poorly at night, quite the opposite. HR sensors measure poorly with constant and/or fast movement. You can also use other complementary devices such as chest or arm bands to improve accuracy.
@@francobellomo9979 If the heart rate is not highly accurate, how can you expect the other metrics to be precise, which are entirely dependent on the heart rate sensor??!!
I absolutely appreciate the level of effort you put into these reviews and find them very interesting. I got an F8 recently and have from what I can tell been getting quite excellent HR results. So far. Although I'm not matching it to a chest strap as you do, looking at power or pace alignment I've yet to see anything that isn't on point. But two caveats to that. 1) I got the 47mm amoled version, not the larger or solar one. Its lighter and slimmer to the wrist. 2) I use a nylon ultra fit band which I find holds the watch better to the wrist. I really have come to believe that the nylon straps do help, and are also more comfortable. Thanks for your efforts on these. I make it a point to watch even if the product isn't one I'm interested in just to support the channel.
smaller size watch and a nylon band may go a long way in increasing accuracy also some of you need to keep his comments in mind, sometimes optical sensors work better or worse on different individuals. other reviewers are very pleased with Garmin HR accuracy on the latest sensor
Its quiet painful to buy $1200+ watch and then getting bullshit accuracy. I wish you would have uploaded the review earlier. I would have never made a mistake of buying this watch 💔
Thanks, bro! I really appreciate that this time you’re sharing more than just the usual default tests I already know by heart. It’s great to hear about your actual use case! Liked and subscribed - keep it up! I also want to add that while default tests are important because of their results, it’s refreshing to see something beyond that. It adds more value and depth to your content!
Thanks Rob! I have been waiting for this for a long time! You've just saved me a lot of money that would have been spent on Garmin 8 - it's a boomer they can't fix their hr/sleep accuracy vs Apple for so long at this point
I suspect it’s taken so long because Garmin wouldn’t send him a review watch knowing the sensor/watch combination isn’t optimum. Rob goes out of his way here not to give Garmin a beating here but let us not be distracted from the reality that these very expensive versions of Garmin’s are flawed as standalone. I’ll be keen to see what he says about the Enduro 3 - it’s a lighter watch so it might do better. That’s what I have my eye on to replace my Fenix 6x.
Thanks for doing these great reviews. As a consumer it's impossible to know the accuracy of what companies claim their products can track without independent reviews like you!
Polar H10 with Garmin 1040 Solar plus a Garmin Fenix 6x as a backup for me. I think we all agree that wrist sensors are problematic for activity. If the data matters, use a chest strap.
I believe it is the wrist size which makes the heart rate tracking variable, due to bigger watch sizes, also Apple Watch has a bit of a curved glass above the sensors hence they are more stable on this wrist so you can tighten it above your wrist where there is more muscle above the bone.
Miałem Garmin Venu 2s , 3 , Epix 2 pro 51mm Sapphire edition i wszystkie pokazywały dziwne pomiary tętna. Mam od dwóch miesięcy T-rex 3 i pomiar jest tak dokładny jak pas Polar H9. Nie kupię Fenix 8.
No matter what watch you choose, it's always better and more accurate to use a chest or arm strap heart rate sensor for cardio based workouts. I have been using a Polar arm strap with my older EPIX Pro and Fenix 8.
I came to Fenix 8 from a 7X Pro. One thing i noticed is the silicone straps are designed differently for the 8. They have a different curvature near where they connect to the watch case. Could this be why the HR is registering worse than the 7 Pro? They have the exact same sensor so there should be no difference. FWIW I use a nylon strap with my 8 and it fits sooo much better and is also lighter. It would be interesting to have you retest witha nylon strap and see if the results are different.
Outstanding review as always!💯 Could you do a test, where you analyse what Impact the positioning (far away from the hand to very close to the hand) of a smartwatch has on all the different measurements the watch can take. Maybe you could also test the Impact of the tension of the wristband on the measurements (from uncomfortably tight to a lose fit). I think that would be very interesting and maybe also helpful for future scientific reviews of smartwatches.
@ Good point, I just wonder if the 51 is simply too wide for our dear host’s wrists and whether the light leakage is the source of the HR inaccuracies.
I have the Epix Pro Gen 2nd, which has the same sensor as this fenix 8. It is true that it is not the best in terms of the heart rate sensor, for me the problem is the weight of the watch itself and that it is not that fast to detect the fast peaks, it detects them but they are delayed by about 5-10 seconds. What has improved a lot is its measurement when you use it with an elastic nylon strap and not with the rubber one that is included in the box. For me it is still an excellent watch for all its functions such as night HRV, stress, Training load, Readiness Score, etc. If you want precision during your exercises use a Polar Verity Sense or H10
Which size variant of the Fenix 7 pro and Epix pro did you test? I thought they were 47mm. If so, then it’s probably not a fair comparison. If you have skinny wrist, a 51mm will give worse accuracy. Also, I think the Fenix 8 is even heavier than the last gen. Correct me if I’m wrong. Love your content.
You should make your website more informative like adding the research findings, data tables, verdicts, comparison, thoughts etc. We all love some great read really. Love from Bangladesh
I was just checking his site for the first time to see if the data was on there and I was surprised to see that it wasn't. That would be a good thing to at least put on the patreon or something.
@@dadandvideogames I've been commenting for last 4 month to gain his attention about it, so far he hasn’t noticed yet. So I think i'm going to comment untill he notices cause I really want to read the data.
@@tariffateh6094 sometimes I'll pause the videos and take a screenshot, but it sure would be nice to have like actual charts somewhere. I wish you luck on your quest!
Thanks for the review Rob! I have a Garmin fenix 7X Sapphire Solar, I was thinking of "upgrading" to the fenix 8, but this review put me off from doing that. As if it wasn't bad enough that the design of the fenix 8 is less sexy than the fenix 7X (outstanding design! Especially the blue Sapphire Solar, in fact, I'm contemplating buying another mineral blue Sapphire Solar just for its sexiness and keep it unopened and brand new for collection purposes, I'm a big fan!), the Heart Rate and Sleep Tracking haven't really improved much from the 7X, despite the new sensor. Issue here I believe, is the way the strap is placed. It's attached on a small piece of metal, which means by its design, it's virtually incapable of accurate heart rate and sleep stage tracking, no matter what sensor is being used. Like, attach the straps for Apple Watches the same way as the fenix series, and you'll get poor heart rate and sleep tracking, despite nothing else being changed on the Apple Watch. So, until this is fixed, the way the fenix watches attach their straps with a solution more similar to Apple Watch devices (Fitbit Sense 2 attaches very similar), I don't see any improvements in the fenix series as far as heart rate and sleep tracking are concerned. The sensors on fenix 7X and 8 I'm sure are fine, great quality and so on, but the issue here is a too loose strap attachment. This is also why you got significantly better sleep tracking when you tested the Garmin Vivomove Sport; I bought it after watching your review, and sure enough, it gave me more accurate sleep tracking, but look at how the Vivomove Sport is attached, and compare that to the fenix series straps. It's just too much movement with fenix watches. Other than that, Garmin has great fitness trackers, with awesome metrics (especially the Body Battery I like very much!), but Garmin doesn't seem to be taking accuracy too seriously at the moment. So I think I'll wait until the fenix 9 or probably 10; hopefully, by then, Garmin has taken measures to fix these inaccuracy issues by properly addressing the strap attachment. But hey, Garmin seems more focused on adding golf tracking to their smartwatches, lol. Garmin needs to get its priorities straightened out.
Thanks for the review Rob! Always appreciate your comprehensive reviews. For data points, I have the 43mm version and I was getting okish heart rate performance when I used to compare it to my chest strap on swift. However, I switched to the nylon strap and now I pretty much get perfect hear rate. I guess the weight does impact a lot.
Something I would find most interesting is the calory tracking. There are some older studies which indicate, that there is an error rate up to 60 % in the metrics for calories burned. So if you try to lose some weight, you have to control your intake and your output. Even if that is combined with much guessing, at least a little bit of data would be nice. 😁
To my understanding it's pretty useless to go by the "active" calories on any wearable because they're wildly inaccurate. But also, I've always felt like exercise calories are just a bonus for the deficit that someone wanting to lose weight should be in. From what I've read, if you're eating at a deficit, you should be losing weight without any exercise just due to NEAT. You're absolutely right about controlling your input; like the old expression goes "You can't outrun a crap diet!". Weight loss happens in the kitchen. But, also yeah lol, I've never heard of a device that is accurate for exercise calories.
I’ve been a Garmin user for ages, but I recently switched to the Apple Watch Ultra because I wasn’t happy with the heart rate accuracy of Garmin. The Apple Watch Ultra with the Athlytic app is a great combo. You’ll get accurate data that helps you improve your fitness. Yes will get a 3 days battery life only but it’s not an issue at all when you get use to. I’m not going back to garmin till they fix their accuracy issues..
Greetings from Colombia, I have the epix 2 gen multiband sapphire, do you think it is still valid and can also compete with the fenix 8. The multiband epix 2 gene will still be valid against these new devices. thank you
Hey, What I've found with garmin devices: (at leat w my venu 3 and another venu 3s) : if you replace the straps to the applewatch nike-like nylon straps the HR and sleep tracking seems to be vastly improving. My assumption is it aligns with the wrist better and lets less light to get in between the skin and the watch.
I would love to see you test and compare the Oura Ring Gen 4 vs the Ring Conn Gen 2 and the UltraHuman Ring Air. I have tried all three and find the heart rate accuracy widely different among them. Surprisingly, the Oura Gen 4 is the worse of all of them in tracking resting heart rate. I don’t care about accuracy during workouts since I use a Garmin or Apple Watch with a chest strap, but do care about it during sleep. Hoping you can provide your fantastic input on all of three of these rings one of these days. Thanks and keep up the great work.
If you're doing standard weight lifting with rest periods between sets, tracking your heart rate is really pointless. If you're doing hyrox, Crossfit, circuit, or Tabata type training then the heart rate sensor is much more important. In this case a chest or arm strap sensor would work better.
My experience with Garmin is mostly super accurate with the latest sensor. Body Battery, Stress, Sleep and HRV tracking, they're all performing great. My Epix Pro even catches early symptoms before being sick such as low HRV, a lot higher stress value, the situation of being unable to charge body battery, increase or decrease in skin temperature. I'm quiet happy with my Garmin.
hi, can I say your reviews have become a go to when trying to understand the accuracy of trackers. if you could review the accompanying apps in a bit more detail that would really help.
Hi Rob, here's an idea for the graphs where you list all the devices: try adding each device's weight, size(maybe strap type) to see if it correlates with readings quality.
In professional evaluations of heart rate monitoring devices, Mean Absolute Error (MAE) should be prioritized to assess their accuracy. Additionally, incorporating other metrics such as Root Mean Square Error (RMSE) and bias analysis can provide a comprehensive evaluation. Relying solely on the correlation coefficient (r-value) may result in a limited understanding of the device's performance, as it does not fully capture measurement accuracy. Therefore, utilizing MAE and other error-based metrics is a more reliable and scientifically robust approach for evaluating heart rate measurement accuracy.
Great video. I would have loved to see an overnight HR and HRV comparison, similar to what you did for the oura ring. I suspect its quite decent, but it would be good to know for those of us interested in using garmin for 24/7 tracking
Hi, when you talk about differences at the beginning it would be great if you could also show table (differences in text form). Thank you for your great job.
Rob, you've done it again, sir. Man, comparing this data versus the T-Rex 3 is VERY interesting. Hopefully this generation will be an inflection point for Garmin.
Watch performance much like I would have guessed. Stellar GPS, okay optical HR, strength in external sensor connections. Great app. Better sleep than assumed. Very thorough Rob!
La fluidité du traffic après implémentation de ces mesures est seulement lorsqu’il y a peu de traffic. J’ai observé cela en arrivant en Suisse, il y a souvent que 3-5 voitures qui peuvent passer par cycle. Si tu viens à Genève je pourrais volontiers t’accompagner pour repérer rapidement les meilleurs exemples
Well done. Thank you for your effort, Rob. 👍👌✌👏 You gave us the most honest and scientific review as always. 🥇🏆 I'm absolutely not disappointed because we know already the capabilities of the flagship Garmin devices, thanks to you! 👏
I just bought the 43mm version this week and I'm loving every single bit of it! No regrets at all. So far the stats have been close to my Forerunner 265, so no complaints here. Great video and informative! Keep up the great quality my man!
Excellent work as always! Given the vast HR performance differences between the Fenix 8 and the Fenix 7 Pro which do share the same sensor, I do wonder what the difference is there. Maybe the flexible Ultrafit bands make a big difference because they keep the watch in place better than the solid standard silicone bands? Or do the Pro models feature different HR software? Since a Fenix 8 Pro has already been spotted in Garmin CIQ, I wonder what is up with all that.
Would like to have seen using both 51mm and 43mm version of Fenix 8 to see if it makes any difference. Always enjoy watching your videos!! I am currently testing out Epix Pro 42mm and AW10 and HR accuracy on running is on par with AW10. Epix is slightly lazzy on weight lifting/Functional/HIIT than AW10. AW10 is amazing because it keeps up with chest strap (wish Apple will come out with similar software - training readiness, load…etc).
My first fitness watch was a cheap Amazfit BIP, which had decent GPS but generated entirely fake HR data for the most part, so I upgraded to a Garmin Forerunner 645 Music. Now, Amazfit has much better HR tracking than Garmin who stagnated for years. I love Garmin Connect IQ ecosystem, but whenever it's time to upgrade, such poor HR tracking won't cut it (I'm cycling and running)
Garmins sleep stages got more accurate with the updated sensor. If you test the new Instinct 3 or the vivoactive 5, they'll likely perform as poorly as your older garmin test, as they were released with the older sensor.
I bought it when it came out, I prefer the Huawei Ultimate for accuracy for sure.... Don't like Garmin ecosystem and accuracy is mediocre. Mostly use it for strength training and indoor running, for which it quite sufficient. Very solid review
The fact is that Garmin has never focused on improving its heart rate sensor and algorithm, which is apparently very simple to improve for a fitness company. Huawei does it even better than Garmin, yet smartwatches are not the company's main product line.
What about charging the watch. I'm always fighting with charging Garmin watches. I'm really frustrated that they're still using this click-on strange mechanism for charging. If they finally decide to change it to magnetic charging like the apple watch, I would definitely buy one to replace my Fenix 6.
guys I have the Fenix 8 solar and its amazing.....heart rate works good...I don't have time to sit in front of a computer and b1tch n complain cuz the watch was a bit off on a graph compared to my neighbours watch or whatever...
@@Dino-lg4ey yeah exactly. Even $40 huawei band 9 is way more accurate than this $1200 sports oriented watch. How can you track health and sports when your basic sensor accuracy is this bad.
I bought a pixel watch 2 after reading the review here, and found out its heart rate is not accurate compared to polar H10, my 12k running can 191bpm avg, 91% in peak, max heartrate over 200bpm😢
@@GiuseppeSavoan Ultra is good for everything short of multi day events but for 99% it does perfectly. The issue is that the idea of a device needing charging means it is worse. With the quick charging cable, my Ultra charges perfectly over the time I’m in the shower and eating breakfast. It’s an easy routine but J get the edge use case of someone going on multi day hikes. That being said, I don’t know anyone who doesn’t carry a battery topup pack these days for phone charging. They’re cheap efficient and relatively light.
For daily usage, and you are just like exercising for healthy lifestyle, definitely AWU2 is the perfect watch. My problem is i train my triathlon and love hiking, so AWU2 isca big miss because ofcthe battery
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Your reviews do keep being fraudulent.
You are fully aware how important it is to have perfect fit when using a watch with optical HRM-sensor for a good result - yet it's only the Apple Watches that you review with wristbands that are stepless so you can get a perfect fit on your wrist.
Giving one brand advantages makes your reviews unreliable. Why do you not review all watches with similar conditions?
Also.. Not mentioning the names and order of each workout who's data is included in each graph makes it impossible to trust your reviews. You could be cherrypicking good results - if you want the watch to seem to perform great. Like with the Apple Watch, that you already are giving an advantage with a better strap. How can we the viewers know if you also are cherrypicking sessions where the data is good.. And with Garmin F8, band with steps..maybe you also only picked sessions with bad performance. We can never know.
@@carlemilsson4114 this comment under a video when Rob says "I use Garmin devices" is grotesque.
In what way?
Number one rule of comparable scientific results = similar conditions.
Second rule = Be open with the data.
Neither of this is Rob. He does not use the devices under similar conditions. Some devices are given advantages, other don't - without mentioning it.
And exactly zero of the data is open to be reviewed. None.. He could be cherrypicking the shit out of the data, in favor of the highest bidder. Or completely fabricating it. We have no way of knowing.
@@carlemilsson4114 well.
I could agree with you in an imaginary world made of ISO or DIN standards. But the real world is different from the laboratory conditions. The sleep stages recorded are obviously different each others, so how could be possible to repeat them? The HR measurement depends on various parameters, including sweat and dirty on the skin. A watch in 2-3 months can change the software and the algorithms, changing the "results". The two wrists measure different HR.
Considering the variability of real conditions, Robs gives us a summary of his experiences plotting the graphs, and he is the only constant in this work (when there is someone else, there are different graphs). All other conditions can vary because every day for us is different from the previous one. The only info that can't be plotted, the variability of results and how it happens, is explained during the videos (where is necessary the "cherrypicking" to put in evidence features or problems that are not constantly present).The number of dots in the graphs gives us an idea of the number of data.
Rob is not a regulatory body, but a content creator on TH-cam. I don't know any reviewer realising raw data (when there are data!), so why Rob should do it?
In every video in this channel there are various caveat on the universality of the results presented. So...
@@carlemilsson4114 Hm, to be fair, I know none, zero, 0 youtube channels which offer their data to download for the viewers. So you are claiming unfairness, while the fair thing is that no one else offers this either.
You seem very angry at this guy, as I saw similar comments of yours before. This is very strange. Are you aware that this is just a yt channel of a guy, and the world is out there and this channel alone have close to zero impact on how everything is?
I mean, leave your comment once, and then do not return if the content hurts your views.
Even better! Create your own channel, where you are fair, according your own views.
An $1100 fitness watch performing that bad is criminal. What’s up with these watches getting worse with each new iteration lately? Only one improving slightly are Apple Watches.
To me, you're not covering the whole picture. If we're talking about the heart rate sensor, Apple Watch is the best.
But Garmin has many more features, HRV throughout the night (Apple Watch does 1-2 random measurements), sports functions like Training Load, Readiness Score, Stress, Body Battery, etc... Not to mention that it has built-in maps, the battery lasts at least 2 weeks, etc.
@ heart rate sensor is the basis for all things training. If you’re heart rate sensor is off then everything else is off. As an athlete, if I’m training for a marathon, how will I know my recovery score if there is a vast deviation between what the Garmin is saying versus how my body really is.
And yeah, Garmin is a fitness watch not a smart watch, it has none of the smart features (third party apps), because it uses a “dumber” lower power draining chip, so of course it’ll last longer.
What’s more important, accurate heart sensors for accurate training or longer battery life?
@@BruceLeeRoy26 I understand what you're saying, but it's only really bad if you do strength training, otherwise it's pretty decent. Also, not having a 100% correlation during exercise means that it will measure poorly at night, quite the opposite. HR sensors measure poorly with constant and/or fast movement.
You can also use other complementary devices such as chest or arm bands to improve accuracy.
You're supposed to use a chest strap with Garmin watches.
@@francobellomo9979 If the heart rate is not highly accurate, how can you expect the other metrics to be precise, which are entirely dependent on the heart rate sensor??!!
Such results of heart rate for more than 1000$? What a disaster. Big thanks for the warning!
I absolutely appreciate the level of effort you put into these reviews and find them very interesting. I got an F8 recently and have from what I can tell been getting quite excellent HR results. So far. Although I'm not matching it to a chest strap as you do, looking at power or pace alignment I've yet to see anything that isn't on point. But two caveats to that. 1) I got the 47mm amoled version, not the larger or solar one. Its lighter and slimmer to the wrist. 2) I use a nylon ultra fit band which I find holds the watch better to the wrist. I really have come to believe that the nylon straps do help, and are also more comfortable. Thanks for your efforts on these. I make it a point to watch even if the product isn't one I'm interested in just to support the channel.
smaller size watch and a nylon band may go a long way in increasing accuracy
also some of you need to keep his comments in mind, sometimes optical sensors work better or worse on different individuals. other reviewers are very pleased with Garmin HR accuracy on the latest sensor
Its quiet painful to buy $1200+ watch and then getting bullshit accuracy. I wish you would have uploaded the review earlier. I would have never made a mistake of buying this watch 💔
I bought one a week ago and was one the fence but this pretty much finalizes my decision of returning it. Crazy expensive for the accuracy.
Thanks, bro! I really appreciate that this time you’re sharing more than just the usual default tests I already know by heart. It’s great to hear about your actual use case! Liked and subscribed - keep it up! I also want to add that while default tests are important because of their results, it’s refreshing to see something beyond that. It adds more value and depth to your content!
Thanks for the nice feedback!
Thanks Rob! I have been waiting for this for a long time! You've just saved me a lot of money that would have been spent on Garmin 8 - it's a boomer they can't fix their hr/sleep accuracy vs Apple for so long at this point
I suspect it’s taken so long because Garmin wouldn’t send him a review watch knowing the sensor/watch combination isn’t optimum. Rob goes out of his way here not to give Garmin a beating here but let us not be distracted from the reality that these very expensive versions of Garmin’s are flawed as standalone.
I’ll be keen to see what he says about the Enduro 3 - it’s a lighter watch so it might do better. That’s what I have my eye on to replace my Fenix 6x.
Thanks for doing these great reviews. As a consumer it's impossible to know the accuracy of what companies claim their products can track without independent reviews like you!
I think Garmin is shooting themselves on the foot with Fenix 8 having the same sensor as Fenix 7 Pro.
Awesome as always Rob. Thank you!
They probably reserve the Elevate Gen 6 sensor for the Fenix 8 Pro that has already been spotted alongside a microLED version.
@@mhe0815 Which will also suck but cost 1.500EUR
Polar H10 with Garmin 1040 Solar plus a Garmin Fenix 6x as a backup for me. I think we all agree that wrist sensors are problematic for activity. If the data matters, use a chest strap.
I believe it is the wrist size which makes the heart rate tracking variable, due to bigger watch sizes, also Apple Watch has a bit of a curved glass above the sensors hence they are more stable on this wrist so you can tighten it above your wrist where there is more muscle above the bone.
Amazfit t-rex better heart rate sensor?? I'm sending my fenix 8 back and keeping my fenix 6
Fenix 6 hr is even worst
@Tecza I'll have to use an external sensor anyway because none of them have reliable data.
Miałem Garmin Venu 2s , 3 , Epix 2 pro 51mm Sapphire edition i wszystkie pokazywały dziwne pomiary tętna. Mam od dwóch miesięcy T-rex 3 i pomiar jest tak dokładny jak pas Polar H9. Nie kupię Fenix 8.
Fenix 8 has the same sensors of Fenix 7 pro or Epix pro gen2. Actually, I wonder why a "normal" consumer should prefer Fenix 8 to an Epix pro gen2
@GiuseppeSavo just for a much more refined design, But not even the speaker is worth it
No matter what watch you choose, it's always better and more accurate to use a chest or arm strap heart rate sensor for cardio based workouts. I have been using a Polar arm strap with my older EPIX Pro and Fenix 8.
I came to Fenix 8 from a 7X Pro. One thing i noticed is the silicone straps are designed differently for the 8. They have a different curvature near where they connect to the watch case. Could this be why the HR is registering worse than the 7 Pro? They have the exact same sensor so there should be no difference. FWIW I use a nylon strap with my 8 and it fits sooo much better and is also lighter. It would be interesting to have you retest witha nylon strap and see if the results are different.
this is a good suggestion when comparing fenix 8 with Enduro 3.
Congrats on 300k subs. 🎉
Great video, with very good explanations! If you look at all the data, the Apple Watches are great compared to the competition.
Outstanding review as always!💯 Could you do a test, where you analyse what Impact the positioning (far away from the hand to very close to the hand) of a smartwatch has on all the different measurements the watch can take.
Maybe you could also test the Impact of the tension of the wristband on the measurements (from uncomfortably tight to a lose fit).
I think that would be very interesting and maybe also helpful for future scientific reviews of smartwatches.
Great suggestion!
Also the default silicone bands vs the flexible UltraFit bands would be really interesting with your data driven approach!
@@mhe0815 we will see the difference with the video of Enduro 3. :D
@ Good point, I just wonder if the 51 is simply too wide for our dear host’s wrists and whether the light leakage is the source of the HR inaccuracies.
we have to consider also the weight. 30-40 grams on a wrist could make the difference.
I have the Epix Pro Gen 2nd, which has the same sensor as this fenix 8. It is true that it is not the best in terms of the heart rate sensor, for me the problem is the weight of the watch itself and that it is not that fast to detect the fast peaks, it detects them but they are delayed by about 5-10 seconds.
What has improved a lot is its measurement when you use it with an elastic nylon strap and not with the rubber one that is included in the box.
For me it is still an excellent watch for all its functions such as night HRV, stress, Training load, Readiness Score, etc. If you want precision during your exercises use a Polar Verity Sense or H10
Have different sensors
@wojciechxd4898 no.. have the same elevator 5.0
Hi Rob. I think we would have seen much better results if you had used a smaller Fenix 8. (47mm or even 43mm) Keep up the great work!
Interesting, do you know why ?
Which size variant of the Fenix 7 pro and Epix pro did you test? I thought they were 47mm. If so, then it’s probably not a fair comparison. If you have skinny wrist, a 51mm will give worse accuracy. Also, I think the Fenix 8 is even heavier than the last gen. Correct me if I’m wrong. Love your content.
You should make your website more informative like adding the research findings, data tables, verdicts, comparison, thoughts etc. We all love some great read really. Love from Bangladesh
I was just checking his site for the first time to see if the data was on there and I was surprised to see that it wasn't. That would be a good thing to at least put on the patreon or something.
Would you pay for it?@@dadandvideogames
@@dadandvideogames I've been commenting for last 4 month to gain his attention about it, so far he hasn’t noticed yet. So I think i'm going to comment untill he notices cause I really want to read the data.
@@tariffateh6094 sometimes I'll pause the videos and take a screenshot, but it sure would be nice to have like actual charts somewhere. I wish you luck on your quest!
Thanks for the review Rob! I have a Garmin fenix 7X Sapphire Solar, I was thinking of "upgrading" to the fenix 8, but this review put me off from doing that. As if it wasn't bad enough that the design of the fenix 8 is less sexy than the fenix 7X (outstanding design! Especially the blue Sapphire Solar, in fact, I'm contemplating buying another mineral blue Sapphire Solar just for its sexiness and keep it unopened and brand new for collection purposes, I'm a big fan!), the Heart Rate and Sleep Tracking haven't really improved much from the 7X, despite the new sensor. Issue here I believe, is the way the strap is placed. It's attached on a small piece of metal, which means by its design, it's virtually incapable of accurate heart rate and sleep stage tracking, no matter what sensor is being used. Like, attach the straps for Apple Watches the same way as the fenix series, and you'll get poor heart rate and sleep tracking, despite nothing else being changed on the Apple Watch. So, until this is fixed, the way the fenix watches attach their straps with a solution more similar to Apple Watch devices (Fitbit Sense 2 attaches very similar), I don't see any improvements in the fenix series as far as heart rate and sleep tracking are concerned. The sensors on fenix 7X and 8 I'm sure are fine, great quality and so on, but the issue here is a too loose strap attachment. This is also why you got significantly better sleep tracking when you tested the Garmin Vivomove Sport; I bought it after watching your review, and sure enough, it gave me more accurate sleep tracking, but look at how the Vivomove Sport is attached, and compare that to the fenix series straps. It's just too much movement with fenix watches. Other than that, Garmin has great fitness trackers, with awesome metrics (especially the Body Battery I like very much!), but Garmin doesn't seem to be taking accuracy too seriously at the moment. So I think I'll wait until the fenix 9 or probably 10; hopefully, by then, Garmin has taken measures to fix these inaccuracy issues by properly addressing the strap attachment. But hey, Garmin seems more focused on adding golf tracking to their smartwatches, lol. Garmin needs to get its priorities straightened out.
Thanks for the review Rob! Always appreciate your comprehensive reviews. For data points, I have the 43mm version and I was getting okish heart rate performance when I used to compare it to my chest strap on swift. However, I switched to the nylon strap and now I pretty much get perfect hear rate. I guess the weight does impact a lot.
Something I would find most interesting is the calory tracking. There are some older studies which indicate, that there is an error rate up to 60 % in the metrics for calories burned. So if you try to lose some weight, you have to control your intake and your output. Even if that is combined with much guessing, at least a little bit of data would be nice. 😁
To my understanding it's pretty useless to go by the "active" calories on any wearable because they're wildly inaccurate. But also, I've always felt like exercise calories are just a bonus for the deficit that someone wanting to lose weight should be in. From what I've read, if you're eating at a deficit, you should be losing weight without any exercise just due to NEAT. You're absolutely right about controlling your input; like the old expression goes "You can't outrun a crap diet!". Weight loss happens in the kitchen. But, also yeah lol, I've never heard of a device that is accurate for exercise calories.
I’ve been a Garmin user for ages, but I recently switched to the Apple Watch Ultra because I wasn’t happy with the heart rate accuracy of Garmin. The Apple Watch Ultra with the Athlytic app is a great combo. You’ll get accurate data that helps you improve your fitness. Yes will get a 3 days battery life only but it’s not an issue at all when you get use to. I’m not going back to garmin till they fix their accuracy issues..
How long to charge? And when do u charge it ? when wake up ?
Greetings from Colombia, I have the epix 2 gen multiband sapphire, do you think it is still valid and can also compete with the fenix 8. The multiband epix 2 gene will still be valid against these new devices. thank you
Hey,
What I've found with garmin devices: (at leat w my venu 3 and another venu 3s) : if you replace the straps to the applewatch nike-like nylon straps the HR and sleep tracking seems to be vastly improving. My assumption is it aligns with the wrist better and lets less light to get in between the skin and the watch.
I would love to see you test and compare the Oura Ring Gen 4 vs the Ring Conn Gen 2 and the UltraHuman Ring Air. I have tried all three and find the heart rate accuracy widely different among them. Surprisingly, the Oura Gen 4 is the worse of all of them in tracking resting heart rate. I don’t care about accuracy during workouts since I use a Garmin or Apple Watch with a chest strap, but do care about it during sleep. Hoping you can provide your fantastic input on all of three of these rings one of these days. Thanks and keep up the great work.
If you're doing standard weight lifting with rest periods between sets, tracking your heart rate is really pointless.
If you're doing hyrox, Crossfit, circuit, or Tabata type training then the heart rate sensor is much more important. In this case a chest or arm strap sensor would work better.
My experience with Garmin is mostly super accurate with the latest sensor. Body Battery, Stress, Sleep and HRV tracking, they're all performing great. My Epix Pro even catches early symptoms before being sick such as low HRV, a lot higher stress value, the situation of being unable to charge body battery, increase or decrease in skin temperature. I'm quiet happy with my Garmin.
First and happy new year from Dundalk, Ireland. Now to sit back to watch this review!
Enjoy! And, happy new year!
hi, can I say your reviews have become a go to when trying to understand the accuracy of trackers.
if you could review the accompanying apps in a bit more detail that would really help.
Why are your results do much different to desfit and dcrainmaker?
My results are also different from this video. This video is just weird.
I've had the 8 since release and I love it. I'd love to see your review. You're doing a great job.
Awesome! Thank you!
Hi Rob, here's an idea for the graphs where you list all the devices: try adding each device's weight, size(maybe strap type) to see if it correlates with readings quality.
In professional evaluations of heart rate monitoring devices, Mean Absolute Error (MAE) should be prioritized to assess their accuracy. Additionally, incorporating other metrics such as Root Mean Square Error (RMSE) and bias analysis can provide a comprehensive evaluation. Relying solely on the correlation coefficient (r-value) may result in a limited understanding of the device's performance, as it does not fully capture measurement accuracy. Therefore, utilizing MAE and other error-based metrics is a more reliable and scientifically robust approach for evaluating heart rate measurement accuracy.
While I have to work on the weekend, I'm watching you anyway, damn, thanks for the content and detailed analysis of the graphics!
Interesting. In DC Rainmaker’s testing, HR is spot on for him.
Because guy in this video does not know how to wear big watch properly.
Great video. I would have loved to see an overnight HR and HRV comparison, similar to what you did for the oura ring. I suspect its quite decent, but it would be good to know for those of us interested in using garmin for 24/7 tracking
Hi, when you talk about differences at the beginning it would be great if you could also show table (differences in text form). Thank you for your great job.
Is the Huawei GT runner watch still a good choice for tracking heart rate while running?
Having the Fenix 7x Pro SS for a year now. Very happy with it. Hopefully will last me another 4 or 5 years.
I really enjoying your reviews.
BUT how you went from over 150 bpm to 50 in a minute or 2 (at the graph on 9.00)?
From cycling hard to sitting still induces rapid changes in my heart rate
Huawei watch D2?
Yess
Getting beat by a $230 Amazfit Trex 3.... Priceless :-D Good job garmin.
What you do is invaluable. Huge thanks.Have you re-tested the arm HRM from Coros? Thoughts?
I didn't re-test yet, but the data in the overview should already contain some more data
Rob, you've done it again, sir. Man, comparing this data versus the T-Rex 3 is VERY interesting. Hopefully this generation will be an inflection point for Garmin.
Loving these tests.
Watch performance much like I would have guessed. Stellar GPS, okay optical HR, strength in external sensor connections. Great app. Better sleep than assumed. Very thorough Rob!
La fluidité du traffic après implémentation de ces mesures est seulement lorsqu’il y a peu de traffic. J’ai observé cela en arrivant en Suisse, il y a souvent que 3-5 voitures qui peuvent passer par cycle. Si tu viens à Genève je pourrais volontiers t’accompagner pour repérer rapidement les meilleurs exemples
another super helpful review, thank you
My pleasure!
Well done. Thank you for your effort, Rob. 👍👌✌👏 You gave us the most honest and scientific review as always. 🥇🏆 I'm absolutely not disappointed because we know already the capabilities of the flagship Garmin devices, thanks to you! 👏
Thanks and appreciate ! Seems that the ver 4 and ver 5 heart rate sensor have very close performance
I just bought the 43mm version this week and I'm loving every single bit of it! No regrets at all. So far the stats have been close to my Forerunner 265, so no complaints here. Great video and informative! Keep up the great quality my man!
Like your channel all the time
Thanks!
Where is the huawei D2 smartwatch review ? 😭
Still need to collect more data. :-)
@TheQuantifiedScientist how is it going so far ? Im really considering buying it because of BP
@@TheQuantifiedScientist Will it be the coming review ? 🙏
Hey, I know its once again same question, but is it possible in the near future check Suunto Race? :) many thanks.
Excellent work as always! Given the vast HR performance differences between the Fenix 8 and the Fenix 7 Pro which do share the same sensor, I do wonder what the difference is there. Maybe the flexible Ultrafit bands make a big difference because they keep the watch in place better than the solid standard silicone bands? Or do the Pro models feature different HR software?
Since a Fenix 8 Pro has already been spotted in Garmin CIQ, I wonder what is up with all that.
Would like to have seen using both 51mm and 43mm version of Fenix 8 to see if it makes any difference. Always enjoy watching your videos!! I am currently testing out Epix Pro 42mm and AW10 and HR accuracy on running is on par with AW10. Epix is slightly lazzy on weight lifting/Functional/HIIT than AW10. AW10 is amazing because it keeps up with chest strap (wish Apple will come out with similar software - training readiness, load…etc).
Please test now one of the newer Suunto watches like the Sunnto Race S for comparison.
My first fitness watch was a cheap Amazfit BIP, which had decent GPS but generated entirely fake HR data for the most part, so I upgraded to a Garmin Forerunner 645 Music.
Now, Amazfit has much better HR tracking than Garmin who stagnated for years.
I love Garmin Connect IQ ecosystem, but whenever it's time to upgrade, such poor HR tracking won't cut it (I'm cycling and running)
You should retest the Polar vantage V3 since they released the 3.0.16
Based on your review. I bought tha Amazfit T Rex 3 and it is amazing.
great review as always
Will Galaxy watch 7 ever be reviewed? Or only the Ultra? Thank you and have a good weekend
Hi! There is already an initial review of that online :-).
Do you mean review or a retest after software updates that Rob has promised a week ago?
@@aaakmm1785 I was thinking about the full scientific review
Garmins sleep stages got more accurate with the updated sensor. If you test the new Instinct 3 or the vivoactive 5, they'll likely perform as poorly as your older garmin test, as they were released with the older sensor.
I bought it when it came out, I prefer the Huawei Ultimate for accuracy for sure.... Don't like Garmin ecosystem and accuracy is mediocre. Mostly use it for strength training and indoor running, for which it quite sufficient. Very solid review
Witch Watch Face is This on your Fenix 8?
Do you plan to publish the Enduro 3 review?
Thanks for the review! Can you please next test the Amazfit Helio ring?
When the review for the Enduro 3 is coming out? Next week ?
Coming from an Epix2 to a Fenix 8 the battery is not very good it last nothing compared to Epix2 :(
For me it works fine. What size are you using?
@@TheQuantifiedScientist I'm using the 47mm :(
Please test new Instinct 3 and Instinct E.
They have the same crappy sensor as the Instinct 2.
Garmin fenix 8 vs. Galaxy watch ultra?
Exellent review as always
👍
None
GWU has better HR sensor, you can see it in the graphics.
@@DowperGWU is absolute crap lol
The fact is that Garmin has never focused on improving its heart rate sensor and algorithm, which is apparently very simple to improve for a fitness company. Huawei does it even better than Garmin, yet smartwatches are not the company's main product line.
Samsung galaxy watch FE Review and Testing please ❤❤❤❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
What about charging the watch. I'm always fighting with charging Garmin watches. I'm really frustrated that they're still using this click-on strange mechanism for charging. If they finally decide to change it to magnetic charging like the apple watch, I would definitely buy one to replace my Fenix 6.
Yeah, true, I also sometimes struggle with the cord. Some Garmin watches have wireless charging I think, but AFAIK not the fenix 8
At this rate the only decent options as andrioud users seems to be Pixel 2 or 3 for me, I had such high hopes from garmin
guys I have the Fenix 8 solar and its amazing.....heart rate works good...I don't have time to sit in front of a computer and b1tch n complain cuz the watch was a bit off on a graph compared to my neighbours watch or whatever...
How can Mi watch has better HR and sleep stage stats when it is about 100 euros..
What about suunto race s?😊. Garmin 8 results are horrible for the price.
Waiting for Garmin instinct 3!
Thank You Rob.
You are the best👍🙏👏
please review some redmi watch 4 or 5 or something like 5 lite
I think i made good choice i take Amazfit trex 3
the only thing that is bad is Garmin pricing. Any serious athlete will use a belt instead of a watch anyway
Seriously huawei watch fit 3 only cost $120, but gives way more accurate results. 😂
or a GT3 Pro :)
@@Dino-lg4ey yeah exactly. Even $40 huawei band 9 is way more accurate than this $1200 sports oriented watch. How can you track health and sports when your basic sensor accuracy is this bad.
I hate that maps are only on the high end stuff.
Over basic heartrate its the only other thing I want.
Can you imagine spending more than €1000 on a watch with that shitty HR accuracy..
You better add a third dimension in your scatteplot with a color map to show the density... You know what I mean
Garmin 965 is light, great AMOLED display, and much less expensive with all Garmin metrics..
th-cam.com/video/dv5l3tVYl2o/w-d-xo.html
So basically all versions of the apple and Pixel watch’s destroy everything.
the problem of apple watch is the battery drain
I bought a pixel watch 2 after reading the review here, and found out its heart rate is not accurate compared to polar H10, my 12k running can 191bpm avg, 91% in peak, max heartrate over 200bpm😢
@@GiuseppeSavopretty much on par with every other smart watch (Pixel, Samsung)
@@GiuseppeSavoan Ultra is good for everything short of multi day events but for 99% it does perfectly. The issue is that the idea of a device needing charging means it is worse. With the quick charging cable, my Ultra charges perfectly over the time I’m in the shower and eating breakfast. It’s an easy routine but J get the edge use case of someone going on multi day hikes. That being said, I don’t know anyone who doesn’t carry a battery topup pack these days for phone charging. They’re cheap efficient and relatively light.
For daily usage, and you are just like exercising for healthy lifestyle, definitely AWU2 is the perfect watch.
My problem is i train my triathlon and love hiking, so AWU2 isca big miss because ofcthe battery
Why is your room so cold at night?🙂
If I’m not mistaken, cold helps promote better sleep.
I was quite sure about the results of the HR measurements. Fenix 8 is too big and too heavy to be stable at your wrist.
Ultrahuman ring air when :(
It's no surprise that such large and heavy watches don't measure heart rate well, because they're practically impossible to keep still on your wrist.
Please test Suunto race S!
Thanks!
No problem!