Gosh this makes me so proud and happy. I sang with the Philharmonia chorus for ten years, and many of my fellow singers had sung on this recording. The chorus had such a warm, beautiful sound.
I had a music teacher who was obsessed, quite rightly, with Schwarzkop's recording of 4 Last Songs with Szell. That obsession rubbed off on me and I bought every recording of hers that I could lay my hands on. I've listened to dozens of requiems since my school days but I always come back to this reference recording. My 2nd favourite is the live Muti recording from Munich with Jessye Norman. The Dies Irae is epic!
I'm with Dave on Schwarzkopf. Too much cooing and braying for me. At her best in the "Four Last", but I prefer the mono 1954, led by Otto Ackermann. She passes muster (for me) on the famous "Der Rosenkav", but i can't stand many of her other recordings. As to the Verdi, there's a Carnegie Hall version led by Toscanini. Very exciting. The problem is with the soprano. Was it Milanov?? Anyway, she's terrified of the B-flat (I think) that's coming up, and you can tell. Flawed, but thrilling, and superior to the studio version.
Back in the early 80s when I was looking to purchase my first recording of the Verdi Requiem, the two performances most recommended by critics were the 1964 Giulini and the 1979 Muti. I ended up purchasing the Muti and then got the Giulini a couple years later. Even though they are very different performances (Giulini is more solemn while Muti is more operatic), I like them both.
YEEESSS!!!! This is the one. Actually I have come to like your recommendation of Papanno's recording, but I always come back to this one. And this is a perfect example of a Reference Recording, there are others that are great but the pattern to which they are compared is this one. Great series so far.
OMG!!! I pulled this very recording off the shelf this morning, but ended up with Bernstein/Mahler 3 (1st recording) That Verdi requiem is just like an old friend 👍
By wild and wonderful coincidence, I was listening to this recording over the weekend. About the sonics: there was a remastering released in 2020, and I think you'll find the difference like chalk and cheese. You can hear it on Idagio and on Qobuz, where it streams at 192kHz/24-bits and just sounds glorious. Hats off to whomever worked on those tapes.
The other thing that’s great about this recording is the ensemble work of the soloists, you can hear how they all sang a lot of Mozart together which is what (for my ear) sets this apart from Reiner. Yes, I’d rather hear Price and others in the Libera Me, but the quartet works together here better than any other recording. Compare this Acapella Pie Jesu section with Reiner and you’ll hear the difference. Definitely a reference recording, and the remastering really cleans up the sound.
Did not actually know this recording, so I immediately cued up the Dies Irae and wow--you were not kidding. No matter what Giulini's personality is generally, I thought it was an inspired bit of conducting, truly terrifying. I thought the solos were all excellent (even Schwartzkopf) thanks for leading me to the reference!
I couldn't agree with you more, David. This was the recording that I got to know this magnificent work by and while I do now have other, more recent versions which I also enjoy, I always return to this one. It is a shame that the Dies Irae is badly overloaded in the recording and I can't remember if I read or heard that Legge didn't seem to be concerned about getting the recording levels correctly set at the time.(nut don't quote me on that!)
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Quite recently I was thinking about what would be a good version of the Verdi Requium, because my only CD (with Stader/Radev/Krebs/Borg/RIAS - Symphonie-Orchester Berlin/Fricsay), seems to have muddy sound, although otherwise pretty good I guess. But I wanted a version that is not only well-sung and well-interpreted, but with excellent sonic clarity. Anyway, I'll look up a couple of these on streaming media and make a decision which one to buy. Or maybe just use streaming media.
I read the CT website review on Muti’s 1979 recording with the Philharmonia (4/4), then realized you were talking about the “recent” one (recorded when we both were 20) with the Bavarian Radio Orchestra was the one you talked about on your best Requiem recordings video on BR Klassik… and just now ordered it. Meanwhile Solti’s Dies irae is blasting my ears.
I tuned into that performance while driving, and was astounded by it. I made several stops, and each time rushed back to the car to see how far the performance had progressed. Absolutely gripping in its intensity (of course, all of the opera folk had a field day afterwords, dicing and picking apart the soloists...). Then later that same day to find out that the Levine scandal had hit the papers, and that this was essentially Jimmy's LAST performance of his career; it was almost surreal. LR
Had this from the date of issue and still value it greatly but the biggest plus is that it now is coupled with the Sacred Pieces which I think is an even finer recording.
A line up of outstanding artists such as we have on the Guilini recording is something we can only dream about today because that amount of talent together is just not possible, at least from my experience listening to both recordings and live performances. Quantifying the excellence of a performance is I feel both objective and subjective, there are obvious guidelines and there are our own personal reactions to a particular artist.
Great choice, that was the reference I was looking for too! Have you thought of an "Avoid like Death" (ALDA) reference for listeners to make sure they won't waste their money? That Verdi Requiem has to be the one with Andrea Bocelli!
Hi Dave, random question... Would you consider making a video about Giovanni Gabrieli and his music? I didn't see anything regarding him on your channel videos. Would love to learn more about him and possibly any good recordings. Seems like an interesting composer at an interesting time in history (Venice & St Mark's in the high Renaissance/ very early Baroque) Thank you. Enjoy the channel, Dave.
Believe it or not, I bought it in a budget version, one of those two-tape things they did thirty years ago, for a couple of pounds, beause it was the cheapest thing available at the time, and I was the standard penniless student.. It was great. Incidentally, for Giulini on fire, what about his live performance of Rossini's Stabat Mater?
I was never totally happy with the Giulini because of the sound engineering/mastering. I also prefer Reiner's singers, although it seems to have been recorded at a level that requires me to turn up the volume higher than I usually do (or maybe the orchestra is just set a bit far back in the mix). Currently giving Solti 1 a whirl to see if it takes over my top spot....
I see reference recordings listed often in Classics Today reviews. And other publications will often mention recordings as points of comparison. But it's generally more often the case than not that reference recordings aren't, for example, discussed in any depth as a comparison point. Are critics doing a comparative analysis? So for example, here, when Pappano is reviewed, does the critic listen to the Giulini? Or is the reference as background thought not placed in direct comparison? Or is it all an "it depends" kind of scenario? Thanks.
The reference is the point of comparison, and whether or not is gets discussed (usually the reference recording does get at least a mention) it's certainly in the critic's mind and memory.
Dave, do you think the Archiv Box "Sacred and Profane" which contains alot of Works by Biber, is one of the most important records ever? Thanks for the video, actually I didn't know this was the reference, as you said Pappano is becoming the reference (people suggested It to me many times).
This is a great recording that has been plagued throughout it's existence by bad mastering and poor vinyl and then by bad re-mastering and transfers to CD. The sound always seemed to be distorted and as you say challenged and saturated. It turns out the problems are not fully inherent in the original tapes; there is an excellent 2016 re-mastering for SACD from Japan that fixes nearly all the problems. Not hard to find on ebay and a little pricey, yes, but for a true "reference recording" it may be worth it to some. It makes me wonder why no one fixed it before. ? Often we may think the problems are in the original master tapes. Sometimes they are and sometimes not.
I strongly disagree with anyone who considers this to be a Reference Recording, mainly because of some of the solo singers. I'm the world's biggest Christa Ludwig fan, but Schwarzkopf is totally out of her element in the Italian repertory, Gedda only slightly less so.
He defines “reference” as “the recording that critics most often use as a comparison to others.” With that definition, Dave is right, but I don’t like this recording either.
This is interesting because I think it shows that opera people often don’t really care about who the conductor is, as long as the conductor isn’t obviously on the way. Dave headlines all the recordings he discusses here with the conductors, whereas I think a lot of opera people would start with the sopranos.
The 1951 Toscanini version (Herva Nelli, Fedora Barbieri, Giuseppe di Stefano, Cesare Siepi, The Robert Shaw Chorale, NBC Symphony Orchestra) remains unparalleled.
The Reiner has superb soloists but it's almost snuffed out at the beginning by his absurdly slow first movement. It's too bad that the "official" Toscanini RCA recording from 1951, though the best sounding (the big drum thwacks in the Dies Irae still sound amazing) is his least good. Reference for me are his two performances, BBC and NBC, from 1938 and 1940. They're much more flexible, broader and the solos and choruses are never rushed. Stupendous--but obviously dated sound. Not a reference but really not at all bad and often quite good is Mehta's with the NY Philharmonic. His ace in the hole there is Caballe in the soprano role. Much preferable to her earlier recording with the feeble Barbirolli.
Incidentally, this is the recording that caused Callas to terminated her relationship with Legge. She was incensed that Legge went with his wife over her. My feeling is that she would have sounded similar to how she sounds in her recordings of the Aroldo arias.
The reference recording does not have to be the best like you have said. I think an average all rounder is good enough to compare. I recently bought a copy of Robert Shaw and Atlanta on TELDEC and knocks the socks off Guilini's.
It’s Telarc, not teldec. It has better sound than Giulini, there’s an interesting video of Shaw rehearsing the soloists on TH-cam for those who enjoy that sort of thing.
Gosh this makes me so proud and happy. I sang with the Philharmonia chorus for ten years, and many of my fellow singers had sung on this recording. The chorus had such a warm, beautiful sound.
“My sources are me” - perfect response.
Yes, one must begin by taking the word “reference” literally and considering how often a particular recording emerges in the conversation.
I had a music teacher who was obsessed, quite rightly, with Schwarzkop's recording of 4 Last Songs with Szell. That obsession rubbed off on me and I bought every recording of hers that I could lay my hands on. I've listened to dozens of requiems since my school days but I always come back to this reference recording. My 2nd favourite is the live Muti recording from Munich with Jessye Norman. The Dies Irae is epic!
I'm with Dave on Schwarzkopf. Too much cooing and braying for me. At her best in the "Four Last", but I prefer the mono 1954, led by Otto Ackermann. She passes muster (for me) on the famous "Der Rosenkav", but i can't stand many of her other recordings.
As to the Verdi, there's a Carnegie Hall version led by Toscanini. Very exciting. The problem is with the soprano. Was it Milanov?? Anyway, she's terrified of the B-flat (I think) that's coming up, and you can tell.
Flawed, but thrilling, and superior to the studio version.
Anything that brings more great classical music in this world is a great thing.
Back in the early 80s when I was looking to purchase my first recording of the Verdi Requiem, the two performances most recommended by critics were the 1964 Giulini and the 1979 Muti. I ended up purchasing the Muti and then got the Giulini a couple years later. Even though they are very different performances (Giulini is more solemn while Muti is more operatic), I like them both.
I have this one! I also have Karajan with Price, Cossotto, Pavarotti & Ghiaurov. Wonderful stuff.
YEEESSS!!!! This is the one. Actually I have come to like your recommendation of Papanno's recording, but I always come back to this one. And this is a perfect example of a Reference Recording, there are others that are great but the pattern to which they are compared is this one. Great series so far.
OMG!!!
I pulled this very recording off the shelf this morning, but ended up with Bernstein/Mahler 3 (1st recording)
That Verdi requiem is just like an old friend 👍
By wild and wonderful coincidence, I was listening to this recording over the weekend. About the sonics: there was a remastering released in 2020, and I think you'll find the difference like chalk and cheese. You can hear it on Idagio and on Qobuz, where it streams at 192kHz/24-bits and just sounds glorious. Hats off to whomever worked on those tapes.
The other thing that’s great about this recording is the ensemble work of the soloists, you can hear how they all sang a lot of Mozart together which is what (for my ear) sets this apart from Reiner. Yes, I’d rather hear Price and others in the Libera Me, but the quartet works together here better than any other recording.
Compare this Acapella Pie Jesu section with Reiner and you’ll hear the difference.
Definitely a reference recording, and the remastering really cleans up the sound.
"My sources are me." ha. Classic Dave!
Did not actually know this recording, so I immediately cued up the Dies Irae and wow--you were not kidding. No matter what Giulini's personality is generally, I thought it was an inspired bit of conducting, truly terrifying. I thought the solos were all excellent (even Schwartzkopf) thanks for leading me to the reference!
I couldn't agree with you more, David. This was the recording that I got to know this magnificent work by and while I do now have other, more recent versions which I also enjoy, I always return to this one. It is a shame that the Dies Irae is badly overloaded in the recording and I can't remember if I read or heard that Legge didn't seem to be concerned about getting the recording levels correctly set at the time.(nut don't quote me on that!)
Dave imitating the indignant vox populi in the comments is hilarious.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Quite recently I was thinking about what would be a good version of the Verdi Requium, because my only CD (with
Stader/Radev/Krebs/Borg/RIAS - Symphonie-Orchester Berlin/Fricsay), seems to have muddy sound, although otherwise pretty good I guess. But I wanted a version that is not only well-sung and well-interpreted, but with excellent sonic clarity. Anyway, I'll look up a couple of these on streaming media and make a decision which one to buy. Or maybe just use streaming media.
I read the CT website review on Muti’s 1979 recording with the Philharmonia (4/4), then realized you were talking about the “recent” one (recorded when we both were 20) with the Bavarian Radio Orchestra was the one you talked about on your best Requiem recordings video on BR Klassik… and just now ordered it. Meanwhile Solti’s Dies irae is blasting my ears.
I did not write that review. That was by Dan Davis, a wonderful critic although we strongly disagree about that recording.
@@DavesClassicalGuidewhich is why I think different voices and opinions from people who know what they are talking about is so so important.
@@DavesClassicalGuideI recalled seeing that critical that fact about 6 days ago but promptly forgot about it or modify my post. 🙄
I attended Verdi Requiem at the Met - James Levine's last. It was great. RIP maestro we miss you.
I tuned into that performance while driving, and was astounded by it. I made several stops, and each time rushed back to the car to see how far the performance had progressed. Absolutely gripping in its intensity (of course, all of the opera folk had a field day afterwords, dicing and picking apart the soloists...).
Then later that same day to find out that the Levine scandal had hit the papers, and that this was essentially Jimmy's LAST performance of his career; it was almost surreal. LR
Had this from the date of issue and still value it greatly but the biggest plus is that it now is coupled with the Sacred Pieces which I think is an even finer recording.
A line up of outstanding artists such as we have on the Guilini recording is something we can only dream about today because that amount of talent together is just not possible, at least from my experience listening to both recordings and live performances. Quantifying the excellence of a performance is I feel both objective and subjective, there are obvious guidelines and there are our own personal reactions to a particular artist.
Great choice, that was the reference I was looking for too!
Have you thought of an "Avoid like Death" (ALDA) reference for listeners to make sure they won't waste their money?
That Verdi Requiem has to be the one with Andrea Bocelli!
That's the one I have always liked! I think the first one I ever heard was an old Tullio Serafin recording, been a long time since that one.
The first? Caniglia, Stignani, Gigli, Pinza? Now there was a quartet!
Hi Dave, random question... Would you consider making a video about Giovanni Gabrieli and his music? I didn't see anything regarding him on your channel videos. Would love to learn more about him and possibly any good recordings. Seems like an interesting composer at an interesting time in history (Venice & St Mark's in the high Renaissance/ very early Baroque) Thank you. Enjoy the channel, Dave.
There is a disc on harmonia mundi by concerto Palatino. Get it. Fabulous stuff. Naxos has done some pretty wonderful stuff also.
No argument here! I played it about ten years ago, and this was exactly my reference for preparation.
Believe it or not, I bought it in a budget version, one of those two-tape things they did thirty years ago, for a couple of pounds, beause it was the cheapest thing available at the time, and I was the standard penniless student.. It was great. Incidentally, for Giulini on fire, what about his live performance of Rossini's Stabat Mater?
I was never totally happy with the Giulini because of the sound engineering/mastering. I also prefer Reiner's singers, although it seems to have been recorded at a level that requires me to turn up the volume higher than I usually do (or maybe the orchestra is just set a bit far back in the mix). Currently giving Solti 1 a whirl to see if it takes over my top spot....
I see reference recordings listed often in Classics Today reviews. And other publications will often mention recordings as points of comparison. But it's generally more often the case than not that reference recordings aren't, for example, discussed in any depth as a comparison point. Are critics doing a comparative analysis? So for example, here, when Pappano is reviewed, does the critic listen to the Giulini? Or is the reference as background thought not placed in direct comparison? Or is it all an "it depends" kind of scenario? Thanks.
The reference is the point of comparison, and whether or not is gets discussed (usually the reference recording does get at least a mention) it's certainly in the critic's mind and memory.
Is the Toscanini Beethoven 7 with the NY Philharmonic still a reference for the work - or do the sonics take it out if contention?
We'll see.
Dave, do you think the Archiv Box "Sacred and Profane" which contains alot of Works by Biber, is one of the most important records ever? Thanks for the video, actually I didn't know this was the reference, as you said Pappano is becoming the reference (people suggested It to me many times).
No, I don't think so but I love Biber's music.
I would like to know your opinion about the last Muti’s (Chicago)
See review at classicstoday.com.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks
This is a great recording that has been plagued throughout it's existence by bad mastering and poor vinyl and then by bad re-mastering and transfers to CD. The sound always seemed to be distorted and as you say challenged and saturated. It turns out the problems are not fully inherent in the original tapes; there is an excellent 2016 re-mastering for SACD from Japan that fixes nearly all the problems. Not hard to find on ebay and a little pricey, yes, but for a true "reference recording" it may be worth it to some. It makes me wonder why no one fixed it before. ?
Often we may think the problems are in the original master tapes. Sometimes they are and sometimes not.
Very true.
I strongly disagree with anyone who considers this to be a Reference Recording, mainly because of some of the solo singers. I'm the world's biggest Christa Ludwig fan, but Schwarzkopf is totally out of her element in the Italian repertory, Gedda only slightly less so.
He defines “reference” as “the recording that critics most often use as a comparison to others.” With that definition, Dave is right, but I don’t like this recording either.
This is interesting because I think it shows that opera people often don’t really care about who the conductor is, as long as the conductor isn’t obviously on the way. Dave headlines all the recordings he discusses here with the conductors, whereas I think a lot of opera people would start with the sopranos.
@@ER1CwC I'm both an opera and a symphonic person. I care very much about who the conductor is and how he is.
@@richardkavesh8299 Sorry I didn’t mean you specifically, although I see how my phrasing might have implied that.
The 1951 Toscanini version (Herva Nelli, Fedora Barbieri, Giuseppe di Stefano, Cesare Siepi, The Robert Shaw Chorale, NBC Symphony Orchestra) remains unparalleled.
The Reiner has superb soloists but it's almost snuffed out at the beginning by his absurdly slow first movement.
It's too bad that the "official" Toscanini RCA recording from 1951, though the best sounding (the big drum thwacks in the Dies Irae still sound amazing) is his least good. Reference for me are his two performances, BBC and NBC, from 1938 and 1940. They're much more flexible, broader and the solos and choruses are never rushed. Stupendous--but obviously dated sound.
Not a reference but really not at all bad and often quite good is Mehta's with the NY Philharmonic. His ace in the hole there is Caballe in the soprano role. Much preferable to her earlier recording with the feeble Barbirolli.
I always wondered what this would have been with Callas as Schwarzkopf or Ludwig. Pity, either way.
Incidentally, this is the recording that caused Callas to terminated her relationship with Legge. She was incensed that Legge went with his wife over her. My feeling is that she would have sounded similar to how she sounds in her recordings of the Aroldo arias.
EMI wanted Calkas for the Requiem but she always backed out. That's how Serafin wound up with the mediocre Shakeh Vartenissian in his remake.
The reference recording does not have to be the best like you have said. I think an average all rounder is good enough to compare. I recently bought a copy of Robert Shaw and Atlanta on TELDEC and knocks the socks off Guilini's.
No, it doesn't, but it's excellent--one of the best.
It’s Telarc, not teldec.
It has better sound than Giulini, there’s an interesting video of Shaw rehearsing the soloists on TH-cam for those who enjoy that sort of thing.
Hi,
Was curious if you have ever heard to Indian Classical music
If not I really recommend checking out the album "call of the valley"
Yes, I have.