Thank you for these excellent videos! You explain theology more clearly than anyone I have seen. And I find your gestures and movement away from and toward the camera quite effective. Please don't change your technique.
Strange that Constantine, though he favoured Athanasius at Nicea, asked for a friend of Arius, Eusebius to baptize him on his deathbed! Also, easliy forgotten in that Arius was reinstated by Constantine as well as accepted as right by a considerable portion of the church, especially in the east of the kingdom.
Eusebius was not an Arian at this time and in full comm union with the church. He signed the Nicean Creed but he was against the exile of Arius. For this reason, he was exiled. He was then re-instated to his position after a retraction presented to Constantine. The historian Sozomen recorded his retraction and the denunciation of Arianism in his book (Ecclesiastical Histories, book 2 chap 16). He was thus in communion with the undivided church. It's worth noting that there has been dispute that it was possibly Pope Sylvester whom baptised Constantine. Nevertheless, the Arian baptism of Constantine is a myth.
Excellent video, and thank you for sharing. We are miaphysites. On a different, but similar note, Dr Luzarraga, in terms of biblical interpretation, whom / what is your go to, please ?
Thank you for this very well presented lecture. I really appreciate the “life” you put in speaking…no monotone, standing completely still. The comparison was understandable, difficult in this situation and the importance of an “I.” Thank you.
Thanks very much for this explanation of the Arian heresy . I now understand it much better than before . Your illustrations have been helpful as they simplified the explanation . May the Almighty God bless you .
If Jesus himself said "...the father is greater than I" why would that not settle this matter? Shouldn't the words of Jesus himself regarding this matter carry more weight than any inferences from cases of him standing on his own authority, or any theological implications, etc. ?
If Jesus himself said "I and the Father are one" why would that not settle this matter? Shouldn't the words of Jesus himself regarding this matter carry more weight than any inferences from cases of him standing on his own authority, or any theological implications, etc. ?
@@josephmiller3672 Which matter does that settle really? You can be one with one who is greater than you. Jesus even goes on to explain in the immediate verses after what you've quoted (John 10:30): John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”?" ...36 "...Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father." ...38 "... believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”.. A side note - fathers by default are greater than their sons. They created them. That's how fathers and sons work isn't it? It seems solid logic to me that if God created Jesus, the man, of flesh and blood that did not exist before, then God can be in him and still be greater - like the water of the ocean can fill a submerged cup, being in it and still greater, while the cup is also in it.
@@PhilipAdair Heretics throughout the ages have twisted John 14:28 out of its context in the Gospel of John and this is no exception. None of the other gospels affirm more explicitly the Divinity of Jesus more than John does. If Jesus isn't God, then what do you do with John 1:1,14 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... And the Word became flesh." Or what do you with Thomas's declaration of faith when he sees the risen Christ and says "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28) If Jesus had responded to him by saying "No Thomas, you have it all wrong, the Father is greater than I." Then I think you might have a point. But He doesn't say that, He rather affirms Thomas's declaration of faith. A side note - fathers by default are equal to their sons. They do not create their sons, as a woodworker creates a stool but rather fathers BEGET sons. If a father had a son that was less than fully human then a father would be greater than his. If a father begets a son who is fully human just like he is then there is nothing in the father that makes him greater than his son. You said "It seems solid logic to me that if God created Jesus, the man, of flesh and blood that did not exist before." My response is to read John 1:1 and John 8:58.
@@josephmiller3672 We've all read these verses, friend, if we are this deep in debate about it. If you read just a little bit of context leading up to John 8:58, in John 8:54 "Jesus Answered, 'If I honor myself, my honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God." ...what then do you do with that verse? Who is Jesus that his honor is nothing if he honors himself? That his father must honor him for it to mean anything? These are Jesus's own words. Could it not be that he is intending to speak 'in the voice of' his father in verse 58? His father who he was just talking about? When Jesus makes a distinction like that, surely the distinction must stand. If no distinction was made, no distinction would stand. Now I will grant you (without inferring that you are a heretic) that there is a certain degree of ambiguity inherent to some of these proclamations. Particularly the passage in John 1 (which, unlike these other verses, contains no words from Jesus's own mouth, only from Paul's) speaks to this notion of [the Word] being "with God" and also being God, and then as you quoted John 1:14 "The Word [BECAME] flesh..." Yes. Became. Meaning it was not flesh before. Right? This flesh being is who we call Jesus, is it not? Before Jesus the human being is born, there was no such thing as Jesus, right? There was only [the Word], that was with and was also God. Jesus the man, then, is a human form of [the Word] that did not exist before, and was a new form altogether - a form that had to be born, and that had to die. On the side note regarding fathers and their sons, no one would argue a fathers and sons aren't "equal" in the sense of their humanity, only that fathers are greater than their sons in one substantial way: Precedence. One comes before the other. God the Father in this case, comes before Jesus. I'm curious as to how you can possibly disagree with this - greatly anticipating your response.
Our nature was formed after the image of God, so it's sinless. Sin is sort of like a parasite that attaches itself to our nature after the Fall. We aren't irrevocably fallen because Christ saves us from sin (and makes us more truly human by doing so). It's just that we can't save ourselves from it without the help of God. Basically the point is that sin isn't part of what it means to be human but it's an outside thing that pollutes us.
@@josiemauer4665 c'mon man I am starting to see parallas with Greek methodology, Humans were created in the gods' images but when pandora opened to box the evil deeds attached themeselves to humans except onething the loss of hope, why do God create sin in the first place to attach it by human nature ?
Theologians sometimes distinguish two types of nature, one integral and one fallen. Our integral nature is our whole nature and what Adam and Eve experienced before the Fall; our fallen nature is what we experience daily since the Fall of Adam and Eve. Maybe that is what the presenter was getting at.
If The Lord Jesus is NOT subordinate to the Father, how is it that He shows Himself so? Where do we read showing the Father being subordinate to His Son (the titles themselves show a discrepancy in the teaching of Trinity), or the so-called 3rd person? Why is there an undeniable hierarchy in the so-called trinity?
The thing is in Bible interpretation, you need to corroborate scriptures with themselves. Because the same scriptures in which Jesus portrays Himself as lower than the Father are the same in which Jesus is portrayed as equal with the Father. John 1:1 says God is the word, verse 14 says the word became flesh meaning God became a man in the person of Jesus. So Jesus is God just as the Father is God as well. And the fact that Jesus is called the Son doesn't mean He is lower in any fashion, it only means He became a man for the expression 'son' is only in relation to His incarnation.
For real furthermore why did Moses not propagate trinity or those that preceded him. I think people misunderstood Arius here is what I THINK happened: what he meant was that God was above its creation. God is God because he is immortal and has unique characteristics that are infinite. How could the all powerful being die? And interestingly you said "suffer and die" which is absolutely against the definition and properties of God. Arius knew what the church was doing. The church was pleasing the Greco-Roman pagan ideas and entertaining their mythology. If you think about it Arius was right. That is what ended up happening ultimately. You got idols in churches and people worshiping Mary and what not. Furthermore, I am interested in why Arius or what was the resource that he used to back up this claim. If you think about it from a rational perspective I believe it should be clear that he possessed a strong academic weapon or support otherwise he would not have been able to establish his position in such a fashion. It is highly likely that the church got rid of all the supporting documents that Arius may have possessed as well as twisted his words to maintain or make sure what they preach remains. Either way, its interesting, why if trinity was so clear would anyone differ. Considering there are lunatics in every generation. People barely pay any attention to them unless they fear them. Even if anyone would differ you would think people would dismiss him if there is no evidence or his rationale is weak however this does not seem to be the case. I think a better way to understand homoiousios would be to think of it as someone who is a godly person (pious). As Jesus himself said I do the work of my father. God is all just and Jesus was also just; in that sense they could be thought of as one in purpose meaning Jesus fulfilled the wishes of the father (God) by his commands and his permission alone. Jesus by himself could not have been just why because justice (right and wrong) comes down from God. The same God that splits the ocean through Moses could have done the miracles through Jesus and it should not be surprising. Finally, the bible has clearly been played with. It does not make sense how Jesus never spoke to Moses or any other before him and said worship three? Here O Israel your Lord is One. To put it in a nutshell, I believe that Arius must have had a strong proof which was later wiped out as he was labelled a heretic. Perhaps he had a bible that was close to the bible of Jesus that had more sense but it possessed a threat to those who were in power.
Very well done, I enjoyed it; but despite the clear bias against Arius and advocating for Athanasius' complex theology, the prof actually help me see that Arius had some valid points. One has to make a LOT of assumptions to accept the Athanasian view, like only True God, equal to the Father can atone for our sins. Where is this in Scripture? God can deem whoever He wants to be our Savior. There is a lot of arguments that "only God can do that", but God put all things under Jesus' power --- God worked through Christ.
Wow this just proved to me i actually am a arius Christian. Ive never understood how we even have jesus as a holy being a equal. Thanks for opening up my eye
One flaw. Since a created being, a man, (Adam), got us in the pickle (original sin), then logically only another created being, another man, and one who was capable of sin, and one who has free will, must be the only possible anedote. Literally a second Adam.
@@MIKROWAVE1 Almost as if this were the explicit point of the entire book of Romans (particularly chapter 5). Not only does the redemption of all that Adam lost (not only humanity, but the extent that creation has degraded due to our sins, and the kingdom itself) not require a "god-man" ... but this guy insists that Jesus "survived his death" ... which negates the price he paid. Matthew 27:50 is SO powerful: ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς πάλιν κράξας φωνῇ μεγάλῃ ἀφῆκεν τὸ πνεῦμα. Translating "ἀφῆκεν τὸ πνεῦμα" as "gave up the ghost" doesn't really do the Greek justice. "To pneuma" is "the spirit" his very life-essence. calling that a "ghost" is understandable... but and "Apheken" is played down SO hard at most pulpits, as if he were simply "passing his ghost upwards so that his totally intact soul vacated his body, floated around for three days, then reclaimed his own body" ... but no... it means "To give up" in the context of "surrendering" or "forfeiting" ... the son of God forfeited his very soul! He gave up everything, and held nothing back, and died to redeem what Adam lost, and it was his God that resurrected him, as a firstfruit. He has to be mortal in order to die, in order to be resurrected. Denying his mortality is to deny his death and therefore deny his resurrection. See 1 Corinthians 15.
@@MIKROWAVE1 It doesn't say that anywhere in Genesis. That's just a fraudulent idea used by The Church to justify spreading their religion. Original Sin does not exist at all. Every man is responsible for his own sins.
@@WPWolfe It was three years ago, so I am a little rusty. Think - that there are universal rules of nature. Rule no 1 Man dies and cannot escape death. There is a principle of the Trinity, Jesus being the second of those principles in the God head, or the Logos. Jesus is not a representative of god, but comes to earth as god man. Overcomes rule no 1 and gives us rule no 2, not as emissary but as the medium of God. The trouble I have with this now, is that it is too complicated. I love my Benedictine Brothers, they are very scholarly. But I have set that modality of thinking on the mantle for a while. My current position, is there is a rift in science and theology. That rift is the concept of Meta Physics, is different from physics. This notion is laughable to me now, and is quite amusing. The constant that I am meditating on these days, is there is no meta physics, it is just physics. Just because we can't measure it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The meta physics being assigned to the role of theology, and apart from science relegates it to magical. This is Anatomist thinking, if you can't measure it doesn't exist. Nature is beautiful and true. It is scalable, from the tiniest particle the giant stars and galaxies. While every crack pot new age healer and guru and priest, using quantum physics to further muddy the waters, with their magical thinking. Quantum from Quanta just means to measure. I recommend leaving going back to the basics before Plato, perhaps starting with Pythagoras. Forget Einstein, and move towards Tesla, even if we loose a hundred years. We will be much further ahead. Nature is simple and beautiful, not an out of control crack whore on meth.
I am a confirmation catechist for a church of St. Ambrose, I am preparing a special lesson for my students to help them identify with the Patron St. of their church. There are very few resources available to help anyone understand the context of the Arian heresy and how St. Ambrose battled against it. Thank you for this excellent explanation of this heresy, I think it will be received well by my students in 2019 as the foundation to understand why St. Ambrose went to battle against it.
Does Orthodoxy teach that God paid the penalty for sin? My understanding Orthodox believe Jesus destroyed death and hades so we are no longer under the m as they are the result of sin. I thought the whole penalty for our sin stuff was more Augustinian teaching and not Orthodoxy.
So many believers of heresy...thank God for His Church. We are so weak as to fall to any error that tickles the ears...but God has preserved Truth through His Church as He has established. The sins dim the intellect, but when viewed with right reason the Truth of the Faith makes it clear how reason and, indeed, the Logos is that which illuminates our doctrine. Thankfully now such heresy is limited to odd "religions" and corners of the internet...but it would be better if completely eliminated in the minds of the people. But, I suppose if it works to deceive one generation the father of lies may just as well use it on another. God have mercy and love you.
No. Vatican II is poison. All Vatican II popes are Trojan horses. th-cam.com/video/PHVXurgxtR8/w-d-xo.html 12 minutes on Protestants and Vatican II. th-cam.com/video/BWsgxCVYtAI/w-d-xo.html Longer and more complete about Vatican II. th-cam.com/video/a3AnX_GBWJw/w-d-xo.html Francis.
@@clarekuehn4372 No thank you. I used to follow their sedevacantist error; thank God He has rescued me from it. I am warning you: it is not safe for your soul. Their errors lead you to schism. Their interpretations are erroneous, and quite so at that. Stick to the bark of Peter. I have already fallen for their errors previously. I will never fall into them again. You too can be free from their errors if you give the one true Church the chance. Find a good priest who is in communion with Rome to answer your questions. And pray about it, with a heart and mind open to the truth and not just open to what you want to hear. Now, if you will excuse me, it is the Lord's Day, and I will leave you with what I have written.
@@ewankerr3011 If you believe the Bible and Church and early Church fathers/orthodox Christians are wrong about not just anything but the heart of the Christian Faith then why call yourself a Christian? Something like Islam might be more fitting by that point.
@@1001011011010 : I think you are missing the point. I am looking at this from the point of view of history. History is written by the winners. So what you call 'orthodox' now, may not have been the original view. Indeed, it was not. Historians can trace an evolving Church. The original disciples were Jews who worshipped YHWH and proclaimed Jesus to be the Messiah/Christ, the SON of God. (mat 16 :16). This was the original confession of faith and what the gospels advocate. However, as the gospel spread in the Greco-Roman world, gentiles became the dominant group especially after the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. To the gentile mind, someone raised from the dead and exalted to heaven to sit at the right hand side of God would be considered a god. But Christians believed in monotheism and so later generation struggled to express the relationship between God and Jesus. . Hence the theological debates and controversies. All the early pre - Nicea Church fathers were subordinationists (so not Trinitarians as understood today ). The doctrine that finally prevailed was the doctrine of the trinity which took its final shape AFTER Nicea. However, this was hundreds of years after the death of Jesus and his Apostles . The formulators of this doctrine used the language of Greek philosophy and not the language of scripture. Many standard reference works admit all of this as well as many Christian theologians.
Absolutely AMAZING video! I am writing a twenty page paper on Arius and Heresy and I've finished half a book on church history. This teaching video has made everything completely simple to understand. Sadly however, we are not allowed to use videos as reference in our material. Otherwise I would love to use this material. Thank you very much for making this video God bless and Godspeed.
Wonderful lecture!!!! 😍 I like your sense of humour, too. Very Freemasonic idea: deist Father, principle of creation; Jesus as top creation (humans are almost godly); force as Holy Spirit. (Some of them think instead that there is no God other than us at all.)
A good description of ancient politics. Thank you. I have friends in the Philippines who have zero awareness of why they believe the Athanasian position to be true. I'll send them this video. I wonder what the world would be like now had Arius had more political clout. The fact that the whole thing is based on a false premise would be kind of amusing if it wasn't so tragic.
If you take a look at the profile of Athanasius you will note he was a very arrogant, contentious and unkind man who spread the most aweful lies about the death of Arius. After Nicea he was excommunicated from the church no less than 5 times for causing dissensions . Arius may not have been all right in his views, but neither was Athanasius. He could be viewed as part of the fulfillment of Paul's words at Acts 20:30. Dont follow men, just believe what Jesus himself taught. ie ( John 4:24 and John 20:17 & Matt 11:25. ) May God the father bless you.
God can't die. Jesus raised himself. John 10:17-18 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” There is 1 being in Jn1:1. I hope this answers your questions but I will attempt to clarify. When you speak....are the words that come out of your mouth...are they "you" or are they another person? They are you ofc. Your words and you are "one". God created the heavens and the earth by His word, which is Christ. When a couple has a baby. The man provides the seed and the woman the egg. In Jesus, God, who is now referred to as Father, because His seed placed into Mary was His word. Blessed Mary provided the womb to carry the incarnate word of the Father made into flesh. The physical body of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is why he is called both the son of man and the son of God. He's both. I think our intellects don't quite grasp that our spirit and body are one. Our bodies die but our spirits don't. We however have no power in ourselves to raise our bodies from the grave. Christ's body truly died yet His Spirit, being the one and true God gave life back into his body. The resurrection from the dead. Thus Jesus says, I and the Father are one. He who has seen me has seen the father. Certainly there's a mystery in this that my head can't fully grasp. My finate mind believes their is one God the Father of us all and one Lord Jesus Christ who is fully God and fully man, though now glorified. Christ is the word of God that we can see. We can relate too. There is no approaching God the Father except through his son Jesus Christ. The Father is his spirit, the son is his flesh. One God. So YHWH is definitely Christ for he spoke to Moses in the bush. Sometimes I think I have a good handle on understanding this and other times it totally flies over my head. Lol Shalom
Who rose Jesus from the dead? God…Acts 2:23-24 (KJV) 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. The Father…Galatians 1:1 (KJV) Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) The Son…John 2:19-21 (KJV) 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. The Holy Ghost…Romans 8:11 (KJV) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
I have heard that Muhammed knew an Arian monk and that it may of influenced his forming of Islam , in many ways the two beliefs seem similar , especially on the the trinity. Is what I have heard true?
@@killerpie5981 this is true according to 3 muslim historians , Ibn Hisham (833 CE) Ibn Sa'd al-Baghdadi (784-855) and Muhammad ibn Jarir al-tabari (839-923) they claim the Arian monk Bahira met and taught Muhammad when he was 9 years old in the Syrian town of Bosra. Now explain what i made up please?
@@killerpie5981 It is also pointed out by many that Islam and the earlier Christian heresy of Arianism share many similaritys. No offence is meant, i just enjoy history.
@@chrislasala if that's true your merely a tare among the wheat. PS: I have seen your phoney deliverance videos. The only way you're casting out a demon is when you're sitting on a toilet bowl
1. Say He is Allah the One God. 2. Allah is the Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks). 3. “He begets not, nor was He begotten; 4. “And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him.”
@@JR-tl8tg for the relationship between God and humans to be consider as a father and a son is an utter lie and injustice to the God Almighty. The relationship you mentioned demand equality in every characteristic, where the God Almighty is ultimate in those characteristics and the human is so limited and dependent on God for His Mercy and compassion
@@sanamouneimneh4113 So in your household, a man is addressed as Master and not Father and wive and childrens are slaves. It's horrendously flawed what makes you so sure that the master and slave relationship isn't one big lie?
@@JR-tl8tg @J R Again your comparison is wrong. We cannot compare the relationship of God and His creation to the relationship of the human beings with each other. The slavery of humans to God is that they are bound by Him and dependent on Him for His Mercy, compassion and care. The humans since they are limited and flawed they would cause unjustice and misery to others. Like the Americans caused unjustice and misery to their slaves few years back. God however is ultimately Merciful and just. He would only cause happiness and satisfaction to His slaves if they believed in Him and worshipped Him and its not a lie, because we believers experienced it, lived by it and we are happy with it.
I'm not Christian or religious for that matter but I think Arius is correct. It seems to me that Athanasius won because Arius's teachings were too complex for the human of that time period. And keeping cohesion of the church was more important politically for Constantine then who was more correct.
The speaker also makes an assertion that arius had a "greek" position as it relates to how the pagan gods did not interfere with humans (4:51). That must be a joke because Zeus was constantly involving himself with the human world, particularly human females.
Considering we come from primates, the idea of a hierarchy is hard wired into humans. From the Arian position, the tetragrammaton is #1 and Jesus is #2. Apart from Republican Rome where you had 2 consuls or the triumvirate period around the time of julius, etc. the idea that the supreme god would share power or was somehow a multi personality being would not have resonated well with a largely illiterate congregation. But perhaps the bishops of the time had this in mind when they agreed to the trinitarian creed. If you can make them believe in something rather practically illogical then you can make them believe and do anything. To dismiss the political power play would also be folly. During that time period the official books of the bible were chosen by men and those discarded became the apocrypha. Putting aside "divine inspiration" we can assume the selection was political as was Athanasius's triumph over Arius. The assumption that God can never be known leads to another dilemma: if God can never be understood at even a basic level then why even have a scripture to analyze? He gave us the ability to be literate and use reason just not the bible or itself? Damned if you do, damned if you dont. Sounds like mental slavery to me.
@The Bible is a trinitarian book Definition of demigod = someone who is treated as fully man and fully god. What the heck is god to begin with any talk on 'God'? What god, which god, whose god? BTW, have you heard 'Elohim' (= the Almighty one) (or 'elohim' = gods)?
Thank you for your presentation, but I couldn't help but notice that you never quoted a single scripture to prove any of your points. That matters. Please consider this. I am sure you would agree without reservation or explanation that the one true God is and always has been immortal. It would therefore be impossible for God to die. If Jesus Christ was God it would also be impossible for him to die. We would agree that for Jesus to provide atonement for mankind's sins it would be necessary for him to die. He did die as the scriptures tell us. Therefore he could not possibly be almighty God. No trinitarian can refute this point. Not one.
“For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.”(1 Corinthians 15:27,28)
None at all. As you know, they burned all copies of his writings and condembed TO DEATH any one harboring copies. Make you wonder? It should. Even this guy had to admit that Arias made two fatal mistakes: 1) his interpretation and use of scripture was very good and, 2) his reasoning was sound. If that's not enough to get one condemned I'm not sure what is.
@@Thomas_Geist you feel special opposing the generally accepted idea right. Well let me burst you bubbles and tell you that you have no basis for your claims that arius was right he might have been a good theologian but he sure as hell lost the debate cause he just as you had no basis for his claim.no actually he had basis alright but orthodox church's basis was better
So... When Jesus says that he speaks NOTHING of his own initiative or from his own self, but ONLY what the Father commanded him to say, we should just ignore that because sometimes Jesus said "I say to you" (John 5:30; 12:49)?? When Jesus continues subordinate even after returning to heaven (still calling the Father "my God" at Revelation 3:12, for example), we are to just ignore that?? And when the apostle Peter makes it clear that Jesus did NOT raise himself from the dead, but was raised up BY GOD, and was entrusting his soul into God's hands, knowing that God would not forsake him in the grave, but would raise him... nevertheless you think it is more accurate to say that Jesus was a God-Man who raised himself (Acts 2:24-28, 31, 32)?? The Scriptures call Jesus "the last Adam" (1 Corinthians 15:45). Was Adam a "God-man"? Of course not. And nor would it have been a RANSOM if something greater than a perfect man like Adam had been given in Adam's place. Ransoms are correspondences of value.Arius wasn't being clever in his use of the Bible. It doesn't require cleverness. Jesus says, in prayer to the Father, that the Father is the ONLY true God, distinct from Jesus (read John 17:1-3). Paul affirms again that the ONLY God for Christians is the Father (read 1 Corinthians 8:6). This is not some clever trickery. Any divine-seeming action or statement of Jesus has to be understood in the light of these Scriptural qualifiers. Jesus was very unique and glorious in how he represented and revealed God to us; but he is not himself God. He has someone he calls "my God" (John 20:17), and he even denied being "good" because only God is truly "good" (Luke 18:18, 19). You are much mistaken.
Tarragon Mugwort Take it easy. It's hilarious to me that someone who thinks 3 = 1 is saying *we* have the problem thinking logically! Look, you said that Jesus must be God because he is begotten by God. By that same reasoning, you would have to be your father, because you are begotten by him. Now, if you are considering "God" to be a kind of thing, instead of a particular thing, then you'll have a lot of explaining to do as to why the entire Bible refers to God with SINGULAR PRONOUNS ("He", "Him", etc) and why Deuteronomy 6:4 emphatically says "Yahweh our God is ONE Yahweh". The pluralizing of "Elohim" is done to denote majesty or grandeur. This is a common practice in ancient Hebrew. Look it up. At Judges 16:23, Dagon is referred to with a form of the word "elohim" as well; but the associated verb is singular indicating only one Dagon, with a plural "elohim" for denoting majesty. Again, at Genesis 42:30, Joseph is spoken of as the “lord” (’adho·nehʹ, which is plural) of Egypt. Besides, if it actually meant a plural of the Hebrew word for "God" then that would mean there are many "Gods", which is polytheism. Are you a polytheist? Note also that, when Jesus quotes Deut. 6:4 at Mark 12:29, he uses a SINGULAR word for "God" (Greek: "theos"); not a plural.
Tarragon Mugwort You didn't address that God is always referred to with singular pronouns. "He", not "they". Jesus calls the Father "my God", and says that his God is the same as our God (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12). That means he worships the same God we do: Yahweh or Jehovah, in English. The existence of polytheistic, pagan religions is NOT irrelevant, since it is exactly what Jehovah, the God of the Jews, is distinguishing Himself from in Deuteronomy. They worship many different persons who are all of the "kind" or "category" called "Gods"; but Jehovah tells His people that He is the ONLY one who is God, and there is no one else besides Him. Besides, my point was that "Elohim", if taken as a plural, means "many gods". And, unless you are a polytheistic pagan, you do not believe in many gods. So you can't use the point about the plurality of the word "Elohim". It is pluralized for grandeur or majesty, just as "adoneh" is pluralized in Joseph's case. You say the Bible never identifies God as one person, and yet it actually does so *every single time it uses a singular personal pronoun for Him.* Moreover, Jesus said at John 4:24 that God is A SPIRIT. That's singular, and cannot include three distinct spirit persons (including "the holy spirit" who is clearly a distinct spirit, and yet you think is somehow part of God who Jesus says is a single spirit). At Hebrews 9:24, it says that Jesus now appears before the face of God in our behalf. That expression "before the face of" means to stand in a person's presence. Why does it say that Jesus stands before God's face, if Jesus is God Himself?? You see? Your doctrine just doesn't fit in with the clear testimony of Scripture. There is only one God, and Jesus is the mediator between that one God and us (1 Timothy 2:5; 1 Cor. 8:6). You can't accommodate these clear Scriptural statements into your doctrine. Nor can you explain why Jesus calls someone "my God" even after returning to his heavenly glory. Or why, even after Jesus has returned to his heavenly position, the apostles start many of their epistles with "blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ"! Jesus has someone he considers to be his God, whom he worships. That means that Jesus is not God Himself. Indeed, Jesus explicitly says that the Father is the ONLY true God at John 17:3. I am on the side of Jesus and the apostles on this matter. Are you?
Constantine after the Council of Nicaea is supposed to have had doubts he made the right decision in opposing the Arians. He was later baptised by an Arian bishop called Eusebius towards the end of his life.
Arguments: -Jesus spoke of his own accord? -John 8:40 Jesus told the truth he heard from God John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me" -Jesus Christ heals, only God can do that? -Acts 19:11-12 Apostles also performed healing miracles Acts 2:22 God was the healer through Jesus, "I can of my own self do nothing" -John 5:30 -Forgive sins? -Mark 2:10 "But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" Where did he get authority? John 5:26-27 From the God the Father -Changes the Law? -Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" -Only a God dies and rises from the dead? -I Tim 1:17 God is everlasting and immortal. He cannot die. -Acts 2:24 Jesus didn't ressurect himself. God brought Jesus back to life -Jesus shows full equality with the father? -I Cor. 15:27-28 Naaaaaah Conclusions regarding God -Rom 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. -Isa. 45:5 "There is no God besides Me" - said God the Father -John 17:1-3 "That they may know You the only true God" -said Jesus to God the Father -I Tim. 2:5-6 For there is one God. Only 1 God. The Father in heaven as taught by the Lord Jesus Christ himself. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 New International Version (NIV) 3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
@@nabilfennia1908 Well, you see he's kinda been ambiguous with his comment. But it seems like he is not a Christian by the negatively critiquing nature of his comment. Because he seems to be making a case against Christ's oneness with the Father in authority and Divinity. This guy, as the theologian in the video explained about what the heretic Arius was doing, is only referencing the verses in all the canons that show Jesus's "sub-ordination" to the Father... None of the verses above show the co-equal, co-eternal, and oneness in essence of Christ to the Father. For example these verses: 1. But from now on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God." - Luke 22:69 2. And they all said, “Are You the Son of God, then?” And He said to them, “Yes, I am.” - Luke 22:70 3. I and the Father are one.” - John 10:30 4. "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me." John 10:37 5. but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.” - John 10:38 6. "He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me." - John 12:45 7. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.” Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?" - John 14:7-10 8. "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you." - John 16:15 9. Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” - Matthew 16:16 10. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." - John 1:1 11. "He was in the beginning with God." - John 1:2 12. who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord." - Romans 1:4 13. "Whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen." - Romans 9:5 14. "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." - Colossians 9:15 15. "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." - Colossians 2:9 16. "By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory." - 1 Timothy 3:16 17. "Which He will bring about at the proper time-He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords." - 1 Timothy 6:15 18. "And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. - Hebrews 1:3 19. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” - Revelations 19:16 20. And behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.” - Matthew 3:17 21. While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” - Matthew 17:5 22. "There is another who testifies of Me, and I know that the testimony which He gives about Me is true." - John 5:32 23. "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form." - John 5:37 24. "I am He who testifies about Myself, and the Father who sent Me testifies about Me.” - John 8:18 25. "If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son." - 1 John 5:9 I wonder what contexts it is that you will find any of the above verses on this comment appropriate for a prophet or just messenger of God. So I believe that, the person who made the comment seemingly as a case against Christ's Divinity, must be a Muslim. Judging by your name, you seem like a Muslim which is why you're so passionately defending his stance. I am making a lot of assumptions. However, my deductions do seem very logical. Have a good day.
This is super interesting. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believes a blend of these two thoughts. They believe in three separate beings, the Son and Spirit being subordinate to the Father. But they also teach that, while Christ is the son of God in the flesh, before the world was His spirit was also the offspring of God, allowing Him to be equal with God, or “of the same essence” (so long as He is sinless, which He is).
Making "sense" to man is not the purpose of life. If you don't believe GOD can send himself in the flesh , then you don't believe God to be THE Creator of all things visible and invisible.
The view that Arius had is actually much closer to what the Bible teaches. The God of the OT is Unitarian, not trinitarian. ( The Jews should know). Jesus prayed to and worshiped this God.
@@myNameIsNot- : It depends on how you understand the use of the word 'trinity.' Certainly , all Church fathers before Nicea were subordinationists. Arius believed that there was a time when the Son was not. This does not fit in within the current doctrine of the Trinity
Please, no patronizing needed here. A diverse view does not necessarily mean a lesser understanding of Scriptures. It is true that sometimes Jesus spoke on His own authority, but He also acknowledged that His authority was given by His Father and that "The Father Greater than All is".
+Tarragon Mugwort. I guess at least half the new testament had to be dedicated to explain this concept. I doubt the early christians believed in any of it.
+Sherif El-Hadi if you read "on the incarnation" by St Athanasius of Alexandria, he says that the problem was of corruption. Humanity was living in corruption and was being corrupted in its life away from God after the fall!
Jason Briski So the solution is the God kills his innocent son? Where is the justice and the logic in that? A judge finds a defendant guilty and the punishment is that this judge gets his son and crucifies him? Crucifixion is a nasty slow agonising way to die. In the Gospels it takes only a few hours for death to happen but the usual time is 3 days and the naked corpse is left to rot and be eaten by scavengers on the cross. Is this justice?? Can this be allowed to occur to any holy person??
That's the beauty of the Gospel message. God loves us even though we are his enemies (Romans 5:10, Ephesians 2:3). Jesus, who is God in the flesh, suffers and dies to pay for our sins. It's exactly as Peter records it: "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God" (1 Peter 3:18). Whereas one of us might give our life to save another good person (like falling on a hand grenade on the field of battle), Jesus dies for people who hate him. "At the right time, Christ died for the ungodly." (Romans 5:6). It's a demonstration of love and it brings together God's love (expressed through Christ) and God's justice (sin must incur a penalty). What if the son asked to be punished?
Arguments: -Jesus spoke of his own accord? -John 8:40 Jesus told the truth he heard from God John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me" -Jesus Christ heals, only God can do that? -Acts 19:11-12 Apostles also performed healing miracles Acts 2:22 God was the healer through Jesus, "I can of my own self do nothing" -John 5:30 -Forgive sins? -Mark 2:10 "But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" Where did he get authority? John 5:26-27 From the God the Father -Changes the Law? -Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" -Only a God dies and rises from the dead? -I Tim 1:17 God is everlasting and immortal. He cannot die. -Acts 2:24 Jesus didn't ressurect himself. God brought Jesus back to life -Jesus shows full equality with the father? -I Cor. 15:27-28 Naaaaaah Conclusions regarding God -Rom 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. -Isa. 45:5 "There is no God besides Me" - said God the Father -John 17:1-3 "That they may know You the only true God" -said Jesus to God the Father -I Tim. 2:5-6 For there is one God. Only 1 God. The Father in heaven as taught by the Lord Jesus Christ himself. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 New International Version (NIV) 3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
Not really, Arians worship Christ, they consider him to be different from God, whose name is Jehovah, but they still worship him. We do not worship Christ, for he is not God, nor do we consider God incapable of making himself a person, he is all powerful after all, but we do hold that in no way did he. There are similarities but we carry the reasoning to it's logical conclusion, and have certain other doctrines you would consider heretical, such as the fact we reject infant baptism and abstain from political involvement.
Interesting that the writings of Arius were all destroyed but we still know what he taught. It is safer going by the teachings of the Bible then the teachings of men.
What would be the teaching regarding Jesus (my fav guy), in the view of Judaic belief? Let say the messianic Judaism. I get the sense that in the writting of St Paul, the feeling and mood would be very Judaic no? Should i conclude Arianism is closed to Judaism? Jesus still belong to the judaic realm...
No the Jews believe Christ is burning in hell in a lake of shit and piss and semon. They are of their father the devil. To them it is not a question of trinity or not. They hate God and do the will of their father.
T-shirt Tube, your video is not the authority of faith! so it is not to be followed! That is Satan's trick. Mr. Arian was a former Catholic. He was used and he allowed himself to be used by Satan against the church established by Jesus Christ himself. The truth is, any church established by men are all fake church of God! The only true church of God is the Catholic because this is not established by any man, not even Peter Simon, for Simon just continue the teaching and commands of Jesus to him, like when Jesus commanded Peter to feed His young Lambs, take care of His Lambs! No other church Jesus established, not two or more because that will be competing to one another! So believe in the Catholic, for this is the true Church of Jesus Christ! Amen and Amen!
T-shirt Tube, for your information and for the information of all, Mr. Arius was a former Catholic Priest, before he established his false faith, he studied the catholic faith and became a catholic priest! And there are so many catholic priest that established their own new faith, even if they knew that Jesus has warned earlier during his time that there will many come a false prophets. some will say Lord we preached your gospel, we cured sick in your name, we drive out demons in your name, but as Jesus said he will answer all them, get away from me, I don't know you doers of evil! So beware all people that other than the Catholic, all are fake churches, a competitors of Christ's Church, the Catholic,
Wow, how unlike Jesus! Even if someone is a. Unitarian, they can still be saved. Salvation does not depend on your belief of the Trinitarian doctrine or not. Salvation depends on a person's belief in God and in their obedience to God. Just like a a parent desires a child's obedience more so than the child's acceptance of the parent's truth.
Another video that I hoped would be neutral and objective about Arius. Again, I was sorely disappointed. Arius has been villified and crucified by more theologians than you can shake a stick at.
Bro dont see arius as a helpless priest that was alone arguing with orthodox christians, he had disciples too, he had many followers. And he was quiet a debater. But his point was clearly wrong if you can read his points. And also shows that the doctrine of the trinity was around much much earlier than the nichean creed. The opposers were clearly angry at him because he was misleading others by his mislead doctrine not cause they were evil people who wanted to kill him. I saw muslims and many others saying that ,wanted to tell you if you believed that too.
@@yohannesmulugeta6214 True, the Muslim take is that Arius had the much more accurate position. But my personal background aside , just listening this simple explanation, I find Arius's view very rational and coherent; aside from the part where it is mentioned that he believed God is not concered with our frivilous affairs; that sounds like a deist take and belittles our existance. On the other hand Ahtensius' view seems very problematic and contradictory in many ways. Surely God by definition is the omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. If Jesus was a God, not inferior to the Father in any way, all while being on Earth, then surely he would have to remain being those all three things. Simply put, still be almighty. How then, can he be considered a man at the same time. Or if he was confined of human limitations how is the still considered God. How could we even clearly distinct between human and God if there is an entity that can overlap the two even to the slightest extent. Too panthesitic. We as humans all know very well the clear and rather confining limitations of the human , both physically and mentally , our capabilites are infintesimally small if compared to any form of power we could call limitless. And what does if mean when you say Jesus died if he didnt experience conventional death. How do you even call that death. So if Jesus hadnt died for the sins of humans than our death would mean hell or ethernal oblivian at best. Jesus would have known that niether of these would be a reality for himself, so how is he even sacrificing himself for us. He knows he is God on the cross. Even if he suffered he did not go to hell for us. He was tortured but that was temporary and our whole belief in an afterlife is directly correlated to us understanding that suffering on earth is nothing compared to hell and similarly the pleasures are not comparible to heaven. How can you say he died for our sins if he only experienced some physical pain for some days.Wheres the real sacrifice in all of this that merits the redemption of all humanity. Even other mere mortals have suffered more by means of torture, war or of other travesties. JUst look at videos of the shell shocked after WW1. Finally after this world has come to and end and the afterlife period begins, what becomes of the Son and the Holy spirit, as it seems that this whole division would have served its purpose and only was meaningful in a specific context , Jesus only being meaningful as a Human/God on Earth, so Jesus' existance would become obsolete. Would Jesus simply cease to exist, all three entities morphing back into an unified state. Surely you wont see a separate Son and Father in the same space as they are they same thing. BUt there would be no need to be in two separate 'bodies' for lack of a better term. How will this distinction between humans, The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit all play out in the afterlife.
@@MWcrazyhorse Shame on you. How Christian of you to vilify the persons that might sincerely believe something different than you. Any person considering being a " christian," would think twice when reading the nasty comments of " christians," against other Christians. Attack an argument and NOT the person making the argument.
Since Yashua son of Mary ( peace be upon him) is not known of prior to his birth - then how are those that lived and died prior to the birth of Yashua suppose to seek salvation.?
You have arrived at the idea of the "Limbo of the Fathers" or "Limbo of the Patriarchs" - not to be confused with the theologoumenon ((Whew - I had to check the spelling on that!) theological hypothesis or theological speculation) of the "Limbo of the Infants." The "First Epistle of Peter" tells of Jesus after the Crucifixion but before the Resurrection descending to the dead and preaching (1 Peter 3:18-19): "18 It was thus that Christ died as a ransom, paid once for all, on behalf of our sins, he the innocent for us the guilty, so as to present us in God’s sight. In his mortal nature he was done to death, but endowed with fresh life in his spirit, 19 and it was in his spirit that he went and preached to the spirits who lay in prison."
I've been an atheist before, and I know nothing bout arius and athenasius regarding their understanding about GOD, when I started to seek and come before THE MOST HIGH and CREATOR OF ALL. My understanding about THE FATHER, and of HIS Son and Christ is without controversy, and base solely in Christ Jesus example, how He submitted to the Will of His FATHER and GOD. Till I heard about the trinity. This doctrine in my opinion brings confusion and division to the Body of Christ. I'm a Born Again, not of flesh but by The Spirit of GOD, THE FATHER and The Son that dwells in me. With both of THEM, I've learned not to bother in things that may affect my growth and faith. Jesus teaches us to Love GOD first, and love one another, nothing more nothing less. We should continue to grow and bear the fruits of The Spirit. Believers should not be the cause of the stumbling or destruction of their siblings in Christ Jesus. Our enemy is inside and outside of the congregation. The apostles warned us about false teachers, if their teaching brings confusion and division, then its not from GOD. Sheep of Jesus knew His voice, and follows Him. For me, THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD, THE FATHER, for WHOM are all things, and I in HIM, and One Lord Jesus Christ, by Whom are all things, and I by Him. "The Grace of The Lord Jesus Christ(The Son of GOD), and The Love of GOD(THE FATHER), and The Fellowship of The Holy Spirit(GOD PRESENCE, that dwells in, and unite all believers), be with us all." 2 Corinthians 13:14
Arius was right, you're trying to justify athanasius, but you're performing mental gymnastics... As much as you try to run away from it the fact remains that it's a policyistic belief.
Hebrews 1:3 “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and *the exact representation of his being* , sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.” Colossians 1:15 The Son is *the image of the invisible God* , the firstborn over all creation. Colossians 2:9 For in Christ *all the fullness of the Deity lives* in bodily form,
Would you describe Jehovah's Witnesses and similar sects who deny the Trinity as 'modern-day Arians'? Did not St Athanasius write an extended version of the Creed which is even more strongly anti-Arian than the Nicene Creed?
Jehovah’s Witnesses are semi-Arian. Athanasius wrote the Athanasian Creed. Some say it was written in the fifth century, but that’s not proven. The Athanasian Creed describes the Trinity more fully.
Adam Noah Abraham moses worshiped one ☝🏽 God, instead of accusing Arius and lying in Jesus, “where you came with the trinity ?” Church keep hiding the truth, Arius fought against the biggest lie in history, he was the real follower of Jesus not the ones who worshiped him and his mom after 325 years !!!
Arguments: -Jesus spoke of his own accord? -John 8:40 Jesus told the truth he heard from God John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me" -Jesus Christ heals, only God can do that? -Acts 19:11-12 Apostles also performed healing miracles Acts 2:22 God was the healer through Jesus, "I can of my own self do nothing" -John 5:30 -Forgive sins? -Mark 2:10 "But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" Where did he get authority? John 5:26-27 From the God the Father -Changes the Law? -Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" -Only a God dies and rises from the dead? -I Tim 1:17 God is everlasting and immortal. He cannot die. -Acts 2:24 Jesus didn't ressurect himself. God brought Jesus back to life -Jesus shows full equality with the father? -I Cor. 15:27-28 Naaaaaah Conclusions regarding God -Rom 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. -Isa. 45:5 "There is no God besides Me" - said God the Father -John 17:1-3 "That they may know You the only true God" -said Jesus to God the Father -I Tim. 2:5-6 For there is one God. Only 1 God. The Father in heaven as taught by the Lord Jesus Christ himself. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 New International Version (NIV) 3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
Sherif El-Hadi That is - because it is!!! It is nowhere in the Bible. That should alert Christians that Jesus nor God was a God-man!!! This term derived from the council of Chalcedon in 451 AD.
I was a Jehovah’s Witness. JWs are considered semi-arian by mainstream Trinitarian Christianity. Arians stated there was a time when Christ was not. Not eternal. The first of God’s creation. Trinitarians, Christ Eternal. No beginning. No end.
@@Christi_Bellator Yes. I’m englishgal234 now. I was baptised as a baby in the Church of England. I’m Episcopalian/Anglican, now. I like the Catholic faith as well.
Actually this guy is not telling the truth. Arius did not believe or taught that Jesus was created. It was what his enemies said he believed. Arius believed that Jesus was the literal only begotten Son of God. The Trinty teaching does not believe that. Russell perverted what Arius believed to defer people from the truth, an old trick of Satan.
Interesting video but I disagree with you. Your presentation skills are second to none, and your argument is the best and clearest example of Catholic theology that I have ever seen, for which I am thankful. You are, however, speaking from a clear and obvious bias against the Arian argument from the beginning and fail to assess that argument on it's merits...you fall into setting it up as a straw man only to the extent that it sets up your argument. Your summary of Arianism is incomplete and incorrect and your assessment of pagan/greek influence is also one-sided and misleading. You need to spend more time analyzing the greek influences of that era in order to understand the subtleties of Ariainism and Nicea and less time working backwards from your own preconfigured conclusions. The Church never really got over this kind of controversy and the problem still needs to be worked out....
@@choicemeatrandy6572 "By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me."...?
@@choicemeatrandy6572 for me, thats the only answer for his non divinity. and he said it clearly. if u only looking for answer that fits ur judgement, then the truth will never fits u.
Arius explanation is more comprehensive than Satanasius (Athanasius). There is One Supreme being, the Father) . Jesus is inferior of the Father, but has semi essence/attributes with the Father (the reason why Jesus can perform god-like acts), but not one or equal in essence/attributes with the Father. Jesus can forgive sins, because he was given authority by the Father in heaven and on earth, which includes the authority to forgive sins. Jesus is also known as the Lamb of God because he played the role of a sacrificial lamb in the time of Moses, sacrificed for the atonement /forgiveness of the sins of the Israelites.
No it wasn't more comprehensive. By the way St. Athanasius's claim was not his personal claim it was the claim of all the early christians and christians at that time. And i understand you but jesus is God in human form. He is the son of God. The father him self said that about him. And i want you to know that son doesn't mean a boy born out of a woman's womb. Let me give you an example : if you take a bread or stone and break and take some part of it does that broken peace be a different thing form the original bread or a stone it was broken off? Does that change its substance of nature? no it doesn't. Its the same stone or bread but in different forms that is what its is meant about jesus being a begotten son of God not a born child from a womb. So jesus is God cause he is from God not spiritually but physically. I hope you get what im saying. And thats the trinity. God the father not jesus cause he didn't become human, and God jesus not human cause he is God the father. That why we say 1 God three persons. We believe in 1 God, God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit. Again i hope you get it
@@yohannesmulugeta6214 Church politics is the reason, Arius lost.. Alexander who was opposed to Arius is very influential figure in the Early Catholic Church. Nothing has change in today's Church politics.. The tyrannical majority rules over the enlightened minority.
Arius was mistaken on some points, as you state. Particularly the idea that God is impersonal regarding humankind. However, the Apostle Paul was a subordinationist (2 Corinthians 15:27-28). So is Jesus, apparently, since Jesus says "If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’" (John 8:54) and "All power and authority have been GIVEN to me" which is why He could speak on His own authority. ( Matt 28:18) Jesus accepted the statement of the scribe who said, regarding who God is, "“You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that He is one, and there is no other besides Him.”(Mark 12:32) Does Jesus pre-date Abraham? Of course He does, as He was with the Father from the beginning (which is a specific date in time). However, that alone does not explain why David separates the two, the Holy Spirit saying through him, "I will tell of the decree: The LORD said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.” Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him. (Psalms 2:7-12)
Even though it's flawed.. it's use of Scripture and reasoning was good. Sounds to me like Arianism actually MADE SENSE and this was catching traction thus had to be quenched by the organized Roman Church.
I feel its this way as a Christian; God takes away sin Through Jesus. As You say it , we get pulled through- that is those of us who believe. Jesus speaks about and to his Father. He is not saving himself. He can be inferior to God because God can make everything.
Arguments: -Jesus spoke of his own accord? -John 8:40 Jesus told the truth he heard from God John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me" -Jesus Christ heals, only God can do that? -Acts 19:11-12 Apostles also performed healing miracles Acts 2:22 God was the healer through Jesus, "I can of my own self do nothing" -John 5:30 -Forgive sins? -Mark 2:10 "But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" Where did he get authority? John 5:26-27 From the God the Father -Changes the Law? -Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" -Only a God dies and rises from the dead? -I Tim 1:17 God is everlasting and immortal. He cannot die. -Acts 2:24 Jesus didn't ressurect himself. God brought Jesus back to life -Jesus shows full equality with the father? -I Cor. 15:27-28 Naaaaaah Conclusions regarding God -Rom 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. -Isa. 45:5 "There is no God besides Me" - said God the Father -John 17:1-3 "That they may know You the only true God" -said Jesus to God the Father -I Tim. 2:5-6 For there is one God. Only 1 God. The Father in heaven as taught by the Lord Jesus Christ himself. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 New International Version (NIV) 3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
As a non trinitarian- you may be surprised to hear that I disagree greatly with Arius. The father and the son and the spirit operate under the will of the father- Jesus subjected himself to the fathers will despite asking if the cup could pass from him under the torment he endured as he bled from every pore. However- Jesus was WITH the father from the beginning. He was spiritually begotten of the father- and is allowed to share his fathers throne. There is plenty of scriptural evidence to support the idea that Jesus and the father are separate persons. Stephen the martyr saw Christ standing next to god for example. The fathers voice came from heaven as the Holy Ghost descended in the form of a dove during christs baptism. Christ, the Holy Ghost and the father make up one god UNIT. But Jesus says he can do nothing of himself- but only what the father has shown him. Signifying his authority comes from the father- that said he is one with the father because he is perfectly submissive to him- thus he is one with him.
Arius was correct .. Arius taught the same believe as all of the previous prophets of God.. Adam, Noah, Abraham, David, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. God is one. and all of these are prophets (Humans) appointed by God to tell us how to pray to God and do good so we can enter paradise. not a single prophet preached that God had a son... never.... what you teaching here is plasphme against God.. the Trintiy is a Pagan believe of the Romans which as adobted by Constintine and he killed alll the true followers of Jesus from 325 AD till 500 AD.. Know O Isreal your lord and my lord is one" in exdous 20 God told Moses there is nothing in the heaven or on Earth or beneath the seas that looks like God. this prooves that God nothing looks like God.. soi If any human preaches that he is the son of GOd then he is a lier becuase God in Exodus 20 says there is nothing looks like him.. Jesus never anywhere in the Bible says Worship me.. or pray to me.. so wake up and rad about ISLAM read the QURAN.. do no make partners with GOD.. this sin will never be forgiven by GOD>
Each to his own beliefs, Islam teaches differently you need to respect the faith and understanding of others btw in case you did not know this is a Christian channel take your understanding to your sect of belivers don't go trashing what others believe.
The Marquis De Luchet reports on his famous work: " Essai sur la secte de illumines". That the Cainites, incited their hatred towards all social and moral order "called upon all men to destroy the work of God and to commit every kind of infamy. Arianism, the great heresy, which split Christianity over three centuries, was the work of a concealed Djue, who outwardly practiced Christianity but was set to destroy it. Book reference: History of Gnosticism by J. Matter.--- History of Jacobinism by Playfair. The Plot Against The Church by Maurice Pinay.--- The War Of Anti Christ Against The Church by George E. Dillon.--- Wolves Within by Pope Saint Pius X.---
Arius called to the oneness of God without the influences of pagan theologies.. Trinity is shared between mainstream Christians now and Hindus, Greeks, Egyptians as well as Babylonians, trinity actually predates Jesus and is flawed from many perspectives.. Father and Son relationship between God and Jesus is a mistake in translation from the original language of Jesus. I call the readers to probe the teachings of Arius from an unbiased view and give it the benefit of doubt.
Arius wasn't Heretic !!! He was a true hero !!! He has the true message of Jesus, then prophet come and complete message of the God. Jesus is a prophet was sent by God, he's not son of God. Muslims believe same as Arius, He is a real legend !!!
+Tarragon Mugwort proud to be Muslim following the word of Allah Noble Qura'an and the footsteps of Muhammad (peace be upon him) the messenger of Allah/God and all other messengers and prophets without exception, and Proud to have the same righteous belief and path of Arius. May Allah gather us with all of them in Paradise, amine!. I kindly ask you too my brother in humanity to follow the same truth to be successful in this world and hereafter. Islam is not for only Arabs or specific people. it is for all humanity since the creation of Adam and all messengers of God taught Islam.
Arius *also* believed that Jesus died on a cross for the salvation of mankind, unlike Muslims. Arius *also* believed that Jesus was the Logos in John 1, meaning that he believed that Jesus was a demiurgic being... _unlike Muslims._
As a Christian, I must agree with you. Deut 6:4, Mark 12:29, John 17:3, and 1 Cor 15:24-28 make a clear distinction between the Father and the Son - between God and the messiah, or Christ. There are many Christians out there who agree with you as well. The trinity is incompatible with the Shema. Good post. Arius was a good man.
I also made a video today about tje equality of God and Jesus....but in short. if Jesus said he was given all power and authority... doesnt that mean that anything he does is because God gave him that?
Matthew 28:18-20 (ESV): 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.
Arius believed that Jesus was not only the spirit that moved on the face of the waters in the Old Testament, but Jesus was also the son indwelled by that same spirit. He believed in the divinity of the son, but not the eternal existence according to the flesh. Please don't mix up what we believe. We only desire to please Jesus in the way He would like.
@@Thomas_Geist Was a trinitarian for 40+ years. I see things different now that I have become a serious Bible student and seeker of God's will! Learning Greek has opened my eyes to a lot of bad doctrines in the church.
Daryl B And these bad doctrines have an historical and political context which are discoverable. The merging of Christianity and the Mithra cult is obvious to anyone with an once of honesty. Although the Pharisees - beginning around the 2nd Century BC - rejected the Classical Greek religion and pantheon they adopted the Greek method of analysis an attempted to apply it to the truths of the Tanakh and the Zadokite traditions with disastrous results such as the Talmud and Zohar. Jesus words that their traditions had, “NEGATED,” (not simply, “confused....) the Word of God are very radical ones. But since we also negated the Word of God by mixing it with Paganism “the Church” has no standing to say anything and so they keep doubling down. Let the Holy Spirit guide you through ALL truth. Entrance into the Kingdom is in single file.
Jesus was the literal Son of God, not a created being. Arius never taught that. This video is spreading lies about Arius. It was what his enemies said of him since he said Jesus had a beginning. Jesus was God by inheritance and He was not an angel, although He is mentioned as Michael.
Delfin Sabordo 2 Peter 1:1 “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ” Hmmmm......they kinda just referred to Jesus as God, so........you obviously haven’t read enough of the Bible
@@matthewmayuiers The construction, though certainly not a violation of the laws of the Greek language, is not so free from all doubt as to make it proper to use the passage as a proof-text in an argument for the divinity of the Saviour. It is easier to prove the doctrine from other texts that are plain, than to show that this must be the meaning here.
John Carlo Lacson Yeah, that’s true, Greek texts aren’t necessarily straight forward in the style familiar to us. There are verses that make a stronger claim to divinity than that, such as in Matthew 4:7 he explicitly affirms his claims to divinity, as well as the Prologue to the gospel of John, as well the use of “I am” in Matthew and John. I think those would be better examples, let me know what you think. Biblical interpretation and exegesis can be tough.
@@matthewmayuiers There are other times the phrase "I am" or "ego eimi"is used in the Gospel: a centurion in Matt 8:9 and Luke 7:8, Zechariah in Luke 1:18, Gabriel in Luke 1:19, a man blind from birth in John 9:9 who is healed by Jesus Just because one says "I am " doesn't make one a God. Jesus taught who God is: the Father in Heaven - John 17:1-3. Jesus states that the Father is "the only true God" The Lord Jesus' statement is congruent to God's proclamation that there is no one ther God besides Him - Isa. 45:5 And also consistent with Apostle Paul's affirmation that there is only one God. The Father. -I Tim. 2.5
John Carlo Lacson That’s interesting, so based off that interpretation would you deny the hypostatic union? Or how would those beliefs fit into your framework, if at all?
The Holy Spirit or Spirit of God could not be subordinate to the Father with a beginning but that Spirit is also not a distinct person from the "Father" rather its the Fathers own Spirit. (His being) -The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord . The eternal Spirit of the living God. Therefore that Spirit is Divine. Jesus is the Firstborn of all creation or the first of Gods works. He is before all things except the Father and has always been the Son. The fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. (from the will of another and the only other at that point in history would be the Father) So the firstborn is the exact image of the invisible God. (God in that context) Jesus has a beginning at some point in history before the world began but has no end. He was gifted the fullness from His God so the Son is the radiance of Gods glory and the exact representation of Gods being. And all that was made according to the Fathers will and by His command He made through Jesus. The Son who was, His Spirit, was in the tent of the body God prepared for Him and the Father was living in Him doing His work. Jesus on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit my spirit" Jesus Himself calls the Father the ONLY true God. He should know. Jesus Himself calls the Father His God. He should know. So to this question, "Is Jesus God?" My answer would be He never dies -put to death in the flesh but alive in the spirit. Yes, He is all that the Father is - the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him No, He has always been the Son.- Gods firstborn and the firstborn of all things One God but also One Lord. For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include GOD himself, who put everything under Christ.
12:02 🤔...doesn't [Subordinate To] and [Fully Equal To] average out to a [Subordinate To]? Seems like to balance passages where Jesus shows himself to be subordinate to God The Father, you would need to find passages where God The Father is subordinate to Jesus, otherwise one side of that scale is going up... Also you can be 'one' with someone greater than you, so claims of One-ness, Same-ness, or other kinds of unity with someone don't refute a clear distinction that they are greater. 'Unity', 'One-ness', 'Same-ness', and 'Equality' can all be ambiguous concepts at times - in theology and elsewhere. But 'Greater-Than' vs. 'Less-Than' is not ambiguous - it's quite clear.
The bottom line is if you are a believer or a non believer you are saved because in the oneness we are all saved with Jesus and God through the wholely inspiring tea break, all tea breaks for the shared oneness!
You are not saved and Jesus did not die for your sins, you will be accountable for what you doing in this life, the only way to salvation is to follow God's messenger. As per the following verses John 16: 7, Gospel Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send him to you. John 14:26, Gospel [And] the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom [God] the [Creator] will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said to you. John 16:13, Gospel [And thus,] when he, the Spirit of Truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he will hear, [that] he will speak, and he will show you things to come. " If you read this verses, you will realize that Jesus peace be upon him, prophesy about the next and final prophet, and that prophet will bring the new revelation from God (the creator), and you shall follow him to get your salvation. I could not find a Christian saying the truth about Arious, Arious was following Jesus teaching but Athanasius supported paganism tradition which Roman empire believes at that time and he came up with that concept (trinity). He goes against Jesus teaching but Arious was the strong stone in front of this paganism idea, that why they started fighting him and killing everyone following him unless they accepted the trinity. Guess what, million of early Christians followed Arious and they fight with him against Athanasius and his new believe. Remember, the history allwys wrote by the victoryer. I am asking what if Arious was teaching the right things? Before you leave this world make sure to follow the right message that will make you among the winners in the day of judgment. Don't move forward as blind man. What God is saying in the Qur'an? 26:192 - 197, Qur'an [So] indeed, [the Qur'an] is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds. The Trustworthy Spirit has brought [the Qur'an] down upon your heart, [O Muhammad] - so that you may be among the warners in a clear Arabic language. And indeed, it is [mentioned] in the Scriptures of former [peoples]. And has it not been a sign to them that it is recognized by the scholars of the Children of Israel? 12:111, Qur'an [For] there was certainly a lesson in their stories for those of understanding. [The Qur'an] is not an invented narration, but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe. 13:43, Qur'an [But] those who have disbelieved say, "You are not a messenger." Say, "God is sufficient as Witness between me and you, and whoever has knowledge of the Scripture - 16:102, Qur'an [For] the Holy Spirit has brought [the Qur'an] down from your Lord in truth to make those who believe firm and as guidance and good news to those in submission [to God]." 42:52 - 53, Qur'an And thus We have revealed a [Holy] Spirit to you, [O Muhammad], by Our command. You did not know what the Scripture is or [what] faith [is], but We have made it a light by which We guide whom We will of Our servants. And indeed, you guide to a straight path - the path of God, to whom [belongs] whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Unquestionably, [all] matters return to God. 5:19, Qur'an [So] O People of the Scripture, Our messenger has come to you to make [the religion] clear to you after a period [of suspension] of messengers, unless you should say, "No bringer of good news or warner came to us." But a bringer of good news and a warner has come to you. And God is Powerful over all things. 3:193, Qur'an [So say,] "Our Lord, indeed we have heard a Caller [Comforter] calling to faith, [saying], 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed. Our Lord, so forgive our sins and remove our misdeeds from us and let us die with the righteous."
Thank you for these excellent videos! You explain theology more clearly than anyone I have seen. And I find your gestures and movement away from and toward the camera quite effective. Please don't change your technique.
Strange that Constantine, though he favoured Athanasius at Nicea, asked for a friend of Arius, Eusebius to baptize him on his deathbed! Also, easliy forgotten in that Arius was reinstated by Constantine as well as accepted as right by a considerable portion of the church, especially in the east of the kingdom.
Hmmmmm...interesting.
Eusebius was not an Arian at this time and in full comm union with the church. He signed the Nicean Creed but he was against the exile of Arius. For this reason, he was exiled. He was then re-instated to his position after a retraction presented to Constantine. The historian Sozomen recorded his retraction and the denunciation of Arianism in his book (Ecclesiastical Histories, book 2 chap 16). He was thus in communion with the undivided church.
It's worth noting that there has been dispute that it was possibly Pope Sylvester whom baptised Constantine. Nevertheless, the Arian baptism of Constantine is a myth.
Excellent video, and thank you for sharing. We are miaphysites. On a different, but similar note, Dr Luzarraga, in terms of biblical interpretation, whom / what is your go to, please ?
Great video. Wonderfully presented. And a great sense of humor as well!
Excellent explanation, this really deepened my understanding of the Arian controversy. Thank you.
Thank you, sir, for breaking this down so a layman like myself can understand.
Thank God for St. Athanasious!
He was a little red headed murderous monster.
@@aioniansage6081 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Are you catholic or eastern orthodox????
Thank you for this very well presented lecture. I really appreciate the “life” you put in speaking…no monotone, standing completely still. The comparison was understandable, difficult in this situation and the importance of an “I.” Thank you.
Thanks very much for this explanation of the Arian heresy . I now understand it much better than before . Your illustrations have been helpful as they simplified the explanation . May the Almighty God bless you .
If Jesus himself said "...the father is greater than I" why would that not settle this matter? Shouldn't the words of Jesus himself regarding this matter carry more weight than any inferences from cases of him standing on his own authority, or any theological implications, etc. ?
If Jesus himself said "I and the Father are one" why would that not settle this matter? Shouldn't the words of Jesus himself regarding this matter carry more weight than any inferences from cases of him standing on his own authority, or any theological implications, etc. ?
@@josephmiller3672 Which matter does that settle really? You can be one with one who is greater than you. Jesus even goes on to explain in the immediate verses after what you've quoted (John 10:30): John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”?" ...36 "...Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father." ...38 "... believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”.. A side note - fathers by default are greater than their sons. They created them. That's how fathers and sons work isn't it? It seems solid logic to me that if God created Jesus, the man, of flesh and blood that did not exist before, then God can be in him and still be greater - like the water of the ocean can fill a submerged cup, being in it and still greater, while the cup is also in it.
@@PhilipAdair Heretics throughout the ages have twisted John 14:28 out of its context in the Gospel of John and this is no exception. None of the other gospels affirm more explicitly the Divinity of Jesus more than John does. If Jesus isn't God, then what do you do with John 1:1,14 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... And the Word became flesh." Or what do you with Thomas's declaration of faith when he sees the risen Christ and says "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28) If Jesus had responded to him by saying "No Thomas, you have it all wrong, the Father is greater than I." Then I think you might have a point. But He doesn't say that, He rather affirms Thomas's declaration of faith. A side note - fathers by default are equal to their sons. They do not create their sons, as a woodworker creates a stool but rather fathers BEGET sons. If a father had a son that was less than fully human then a father would be greater than his. If a father begets a son who is fully human just like he is then there is nothing in the father that makes him greater than his son.
You said "It seems solid logic to me that if God created Jesus, the man, of flesh and blood that did not exist before." My response is to read John 1:1 and John 8:58.
@@josephmiller3672 We've all read these verses, friend, if we are this deep in debate about it. If you read just a little bit of context leading up to John 8:58, in John 8:54 "Jesus Answered, 'If I honor myself, my honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God." ...what then do you do with that verse? Who is Jesus that his honor is nothing if he honors himself? That his father must honor him for it to mean anything? These are Jesus's own words. Could it not be that he is intending to speak 'in the voice of' his father in verse 58? His father who he was just talking about? When Jesus makes a distinction like that, surely the distinction must stand. If no distinction was made, no distinction would stand. Now I will grant you (without inferring that you are a heretic) that there is a certain degree of ambiguity inherent to some of these proclamations. Particularly the passage in John 1 (which, unlike these other verses, contains no words from Jesus's own mouth, only from Paul's) speaks to this notion of [the Word] being "with God" and also being God, and then as you quoted John 1:14 "The Word [BECAME] flesh..." Yes. Became. Meaning it was not flesh before. Right? This flesh being is who we call Jesus, is it not? Before Jesus the human being is born, there was no such thing as Jesus, right? There was only [the Word], that was with and was also God. Jesus the man, then, is a human form of [the Word] that did not exist before, and was a new form altogether - a form that had to be born, and that had to die. On the side note regarding fathers and their sons, no one would argue a fathers and sons aren't "equal" in the sense of their humanity, only that fathers are greater than their sons in one substantial way: Precedence. One comes before the other. God the Father in this case, comes before Jesus. I'm curious as to how you can possibly disagree with this - greatly anticipating your response.
Just correcting my error - John's words obviously, not Paul's.
Christ preserve you, this is such a good channel and such a great video
Great presentation style. Serious subject and you know it well, but you still manage to inject a cheeky humour.
Can someone explain to me the professor's statement at 6:50- "sin is never a part of human nature"? Is being irrevocably fallen not our human nature?
Our nature was formed after the image of God, so it's sinless. Sin is sort of like a parasite that attaches itself to our nature after the Fall. We aren't irrevocably fallen because Christ saves us from sin (and makes us more truly human by doing so). It's just that we can't save ourselves from it without the help of God. Basically the point is that sin isn't part of what it means to be human but it's an outside thing that pollutes us.
@@josiemauer4665 c'mon man I am starting to see parallas with Greek methodology, Humans were created in the gods' images but when pandora opened to box the evil deeds attached themeselves to humans except onething the loss of hope, why do God create sin in the first place to attach it by human nature ?
Theologians sometimes distinguish two types of nature, one integral and one fallen. Our integral nature is our whole nature and what Adam and Eve experienced before the Fall; our fallen nature is what we experience daily since the Fall of Adam and Eve. Maybe that is what the presenter was getting at.
Good Video. Keep up the good Theology.
This is both convoluted and enlightening, thank you.
Love your work 🙏
One of the best explanations yet. Thank you for this. Using examples of greek words amplifies the arguments of God in explicate personhood
If The Lord Jesus is NOT subordinate to the Father, how is it that He shows Himself so? Where do we read showing the Father being subordinate to His Son (the titles themselves show a discrepancy in the teaching of Trinity), or the so-called 3rd person? Why is there an undeniable hierarchy in the so-called trinity?
A year has gone by and not one person has responded to your question.
@@dlbard1 now, 4 years. The trinitararians are still deliberating. 🤣
The thing is in Bible interpretation, you need to corroborate scriptures with themselves. Because the same scriptures in which Jesus portrays Himself as lower than the Father are the same in which Jesus is portrayed as equal with the Father. John 1:1 says God is the word, verse 14 says the word became flesh meaning God became a man in the person of Jesus. So Jesus is God just as the Father is God as well. And the fact that Jesus is called the Son doesn't mean He is lower in any fashion, it only means He became a man for the expression 'son' is only in relation to His incarnation.
For real furthermore why did Moses not propagate trinity or those that preceded him. I think people misunderstood Arius here is what I THINK happened: what he meant was that God was above its creation. God is God because he is immortal and has unique characteristics that are infinite. How could the all powerful being die? And interestingly you said "suffer and die" which is absolutely against the definition and properties of God. Arius knew what the church was doing. The church was pleasing the Greco-Roman pagan ideas and entertaining their mythology. If you think about it Arius was right. That is what ended up happening ultimately. You got idols in churches and people worshiping Mary and what not. Furthermore, I am interested in why Arius or what was the resource that he used to back up this claim. If you think about it from a rational perspective I believe it should be clear that he possessed a strong academic weapon or support otherwise he would not have been able to establish his position in such a fashion. It is highly likely that the church got rid of all the supporting documents that Arius may have possessed as well as twisted his words to maintain or make sure what they preach remains. Either way, its interesting, why if trinity was so clear would anyone differ. Considering there are lunatics in every generation. People barely pay any attention to them unless they fear them. Even if anyone would differ you would think people would dismiss him if there is no evidence or his rationale is weak however this does not seem to be the case. I think a better way to understand homoiousios would be to think of it as someone who is a godly person (pious). As Jesus himself said I do the work of my father. God is all just and Jesus was also just; in that sense they could be thought of as one in purpose meaning Jesus fulfilled the wishes of the father (God) by his commands and his permission alone. Jesus by himself could not have been just why because justice (right and wrong) comes down from God. The same God that splits the ocean through Moses could have done the miracles through Jesus and it should not be surprising. Finally, the bible has clearly been played with. It does not make sense how Jesus never spoke to Moses or any other before him and said worship three? Here O Israel your Lord is One. To put it in a nutshell, I believe that Arius must have had a strong proof which was later wiped out as he was labelled a heretic. Perhaps he had a bible that was close to the bible of Jesus that had more sense but it possessed a threat to those who were in power.
Very well done, I enjoyed it; but despite the clear bias against Arius and advocating for Athanasius' complex theology, the prof actually help me see that Arius had some valid points. One has to make a LOT of assumptions to accept the Athanasian view, like only True God, equal to the Father can atone for our sins. Where is this in Scripture? God can deem whoever He wants to be our Savior. There is a lot of arguments that "only God can do that", but God put all things under Jesus' power --- God worked through Christ.
+Frank C heretic
I really think, if the word"begotten" was in the original aramaic text, or it is just an interpretation or mistranslated.
@@mustafasonmez24 It wasn't aramaic. It was Greek.
@@j.k.6865 Greek text was a translation, was not original. Even at the greek version there was not begotten word if i am not wrong.
What a treat to listen to and watch this presentation!
This is the most important keyword to Islam that they use.
Thank you for a very clear explanation!
Vologda mapping?😅 You're a Christian too?
All thanks to God for St.Athanasius!
that was absolutely on point well done
Thank you Dr. Luzarraga, you further clearified my faith in Christ! Blessings..
What a great teacher!
Wow this just proved to me i actually am a arius Christian. Ive never understood how we even have jesus as a holy being a equal. Thanks for opening up my eye
One flaw. Since a created being, a man, (Adam), got us in the pickle (original sin), then logically only another created being, another man, and one who was capable of sin, and one who has free will, must be the only possible anedote. Literally a second Adam.
Mary was a second Eve, she restored humanity.
@@oathboundsecrets she is the Eve who was promised by God in the garden that her Son would crush the head of the serpent.
@@MIKROWAVE1 Almost as if this were the explicit point of the entire book of Romans (particularly chapter 5).
Not only does the redemption of all that Adam lost (not only humanity, but the extent that creation has degraded due to our sins, and the kingdom itself) not require a "god-man" ... but this guy insists that Jesus "survived his death" ... which negates the price he paid. Matthew 27:50 is SO powerful: ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς πάλιν κράξας φωνῇ μεγάλῃ ἀφῆκεν τὸ πνεῦμα.
Translating "ἀφῆκεν τὸ πνεῦμα" as "gave up the ghost" doesn't really do the Greek justice. "To pneuma" is "the spirit" his very life-essence. calling that a "ghost" is understandable... but and "Apheken" is played down SO hard at most pulpits, as if he were simply "passing his ghost upwards so that his totally intact soul vacated his body, floated around for three days, then reclaimed his own body" ... but no... it means "To give up" in the context of "surrendering" or "forfeiting" ... the son of God forfeited his very soul! He gave up everything, and held nothing back, and died to redeem what Adam lost, and it was his God that resurrected him, as a firstfruit.
He has to be mortal in order to die, in order to be resurrected. Denying his mortality is to deny his death and therefore deny his resurrection. See 1 Corinthians 15.
@@MIKROWAVE1 It doesn't say that anywhere in Genesis. That's just a fraudulent idea used by The Church to justify spreading their religion.
Original Sin does not exist at all. Every man is responsible for his own sins.
The medium is the message! Brilliant thanks!
what does he mean by that?
@@WPWolfe It was three years ago, so I am a little rusty. Think - that there are universal rules of nature. Rule no 1 Man dies and cannot escape death. There is a principle of the Trinity, Jesus being the second of those principles in the God head, or the Logos. Jesus is not a representative of god, but comes to earth as god man. Overcomes rule no 1 and gives us rule no 2, not as emissary but as the medium of God. The trouble I have with this now, is that it is too complicated. I love my Benedictine Brothers, they are very scholarly. But I have set that modality of thinking on the mantle for a while. My current position, is there is a rift in science and theology. That rift is the concept of Meta Physics, is different from physics. This notion is laughable to me now, and is quite amusing. The constant that I am meditating on these days, is there is no meta physics, it is just physics. Just because we can't measure it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The meta physics being assigned to the role of theology, and apart from science relegates it to magical. This is Anatomist thinking, if you can't measure it doesn't exist. Nature is beautiful and true. It is scalable, from the tiniest particle the giant stars and galaxies. While every crack pot new age healer and guru and priest, using quantum physics to further muddy the waters, with their magical thinking. Quantum from Quanta just means to measure. I recommend leaving going back to the basics before Plato, perhaps starting with Pythagoras. Forget Einstein, and move towards Tesla, even if we loose a hundred years. We will be much further ahead. Nature is simple and beautiful, not an out of control crack whore on meth.
I am a confirmation catechist for a church of St. Ambrose, I am preparing a special lesson for my students to help them identify with the Patron St. of their church. There are very few resources available to help anyone understand the context of the Arian heresy and how St. Ambrose battled against it. Thank you for this excellent explanation of this heresy, I think it will be received well by my students in 2019 as the foundation to understand why St. Ambrose went to battle against it.
Does Orthodoxy teach that God paid the penalty for sin? My understanding Orthodox believe Jesus destroyed death and hades so we are no longer under the m as they are the result of sin. I thought the whole penalty for our sin stuff was more Augustinian teaching and not Orthodoxy.
So many believers of heresy...thank God for His Church. We are so weak as to fall to any error that tickles the ears...but God has preserved Truth through His Church as He has established. The sins dim the intellect, but when viewed with right reason the Truth of the Faith makes it clear how reason and, indeed, the Logos is that which illuminates our doctrine. Thankfully now such heresy is limited to odd "religions" and corners of the internet...but it would be better if completely eliminated in the minds of the people. But, I suppose if it works to deceive one generation the father of lies may just as well use it on another. God have mercy and love you.
No. Vatican II is poison.
All Vatican II popes are Trojan horses.
th-cam.com/video/PHVXurgxtR8/w-d-xo.html 12 minutes on Protestants and Vatican II.
th-cam.com/video/BWsgxCVYtAI/w-d-xo.html Longer and more complete about Vatican II.
th-cam.com/video/a3AnX_GBWJw/w-d-xo.html Francis.
@@clarekuehn4372
No thank you. I used to follow their sedevacantist error; thank God He has rescued me from it. I am warning you: it is not safe for your soul. Their errors lead you to schism. Their interpretations are erroneous, and quite so at that. Stick to the bark of Peter. I have already fallen for their errors previously. I will never fall into them again. You too can be free from their errors if you give the one true Church the chance. Find a good priest who is in communion with Rome to answer your questions. And pray about it, with a heart and mind open to the truth and not just open to what you want to hear.
Now, if you will excuse me, it is the Lord's Day, and I will leave you with what I have written.
The doctrine of the Trinity is perhaps the biggest heresy of them all - and the most successful.
@@ewankerr3011
If you believe the Bible and Church and early Church fathers/orthodox Christians are wrong about not just anything but the heart of the Christian Faith then why call yourself a Christian? Something like Islam might be more fitting by that point.
@@1001011011010 : I think you are missing the point. I am looking at this from the point of view of history. History is written by the winners. So what you call 'orthodox' now, may not have been the original view. Indeed, it was not. Historians can trace an evolving Church. The original disciples were Jews who worshipped YHWH and proclaimed Jesus to be the Messiah/Christ, the SON of God. (mat 16 :16). This was the original confession of faith and what the gospels advocate. However, as the gospel spread in the Greco-Roman world, gentiles became the dominant group especially after the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. To the gentile mind, someone raised from the dead and exalted to heaven to sit at the right hand side of God would be considered a god. But Christians believed in monotheism and so later generation struggled to express the relationship between God and Jesus. . Hence the theological debates and controversies. All the early pre - Nicea Church fathers were subordinationists (so not Trinitarians as understood today ). The doctrine that finally prevailed was the doctrine of the trinity which took its final shape AFTER Nicea. However, this was hundreds of years after the death of Jesus and his Apostles . The formulators of this doctrine used the language of Greek philosophy and not the language of scripture. Many standard reference works admit all of this as well as many Christian theologians.
Absolutely AMAZING video! I am writing a twenty page paper on Arius and Heresy and I've finished half a book on church history. This teaching video has made everything completely simple to understand. Sadly however, we are not allowed to use videos as reference in our material. Otherwise I would love to use this material. Thank you very much for making this video God bless and Godspeed.
Very good, well put doctrinal teaching. Excellent.
Wonderful lecture!!!! 😍 I like your sense of humour, too. Very Freemasonic idea: deist Father, principle of creation; Jesus as top creation (humans are almost godly); force as Holy Spirit. (Some of them think instead that there is no God other than us at all.)
Por favor en español gracias
A good description of ancient politics. Thank you.
I have friends in the Philippines who have zero awareness of why they believe the Athanasian position to be true. I'll send them this video. I wonder what the world would be like now had Arius had more political clout.
The fact that the whole thing is based on a false premise would be kind of amusing if it wasn't so tragic.
DLJ
The Athanasian position was there for very long. Arius just came in with his new ideas and he was rejected.
If you take a look at the profile of Athanasius you will note he was a very arrogant, contentious and unkind man who spread the most aweful lies about the death of Arius. After Nicea he was excommunicated from the church no less than 5 times for causing dissensions . Arius may not have been all right in his views, but neither was Athanasius. He could be viewed as part of the fulfillment of Paul's words at Acts 20:30. Dont follow men, just believe what Jesus himself taught. ie ( John 4:24 and John 20:17 & Matt 11:25. ) May God the father bless you.
How can God die ?
Who raised Jesus from death if Jesus was the same God ?
How many beings are there in John 1 Vs 1 if Jesus is same Yahweh?
God can't die. Jesus raised himself. John 10:17-18
17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”
There is 1 being in Jn1:1.
I hope this answers your questions but I will attempt to clarify. When you speak....are the words that come out of your mouth...are they "you" or are they another person? They are you ofc. Your words and you are "one". God created the heavens and the earth by His word, which is Christ.
When a couple has a baby. The man provides the seed and the woman the egg. In Jesus, God, who is now referred to as Father, because His seed placed into Mary was His word. Blessed Mary provided the womb to carry the incarnate word of the Father made into flesh. The physical body of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is why he is called both the son of man and the son of God. He's both.
I think our intellects don't quite grasp that our spirit and body are one. Our bodies die but our spirits don't. We however have no power in ourselves to raise our bodies from the grave. Christ's body truly died yet His Spirit, being the one and true God gave life back into his body. The resurrection from the dead.
Thus Jesus says, I and the Father are one. He who has seen me has seen the father.
Certainly there's a mystery in this that my head can't fully grasp. My finate mind believes their is one God the Father of us all and one Lord Jesus Christ who is fully God and fully man, though now glorified. Christ is the word of God that we can see. We can relate too. There is no approaching God the Father except through his son Jesus Christ. The Father is his spirit, the son is his flesh. One God.
So YHWH is definitely Christ for he spoke to Moses in the bush.
Sometimes I think I have a good handle on understanding this and other times it totally flies over my head. Lol
Shalom
Who rose Jesus from the dead?
God…Acts 2:23-24 (KJV) 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
The Father…Galatians 1:1 (KJV) Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
The Son…John 2:19-21 (KJV) 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
The Holy Ghost…Romans 8:11 (KJV) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
I have heard that Muhammed knew an Arian monk and that it may of influenced his forming of Islam , in many ways the two beliefs seem similar , especially on the the trinity. Is what I have heard true?
The answer is NOT TRUE, you need to read the Holy Quran / Bible and compare yourself.
Yes, it was a guy named Waraqa, who was a nostorian
You people make up stuff
@@killerpie5981 this is true according to 3 muslim historians , Ibn Hisham (833 CE) Ibn Sa'd al-Baghdadi (784-855) and Muhammad ibn Jarir al-tabari (839-923) they claim the Arian monk Bahira met and taught Muhammad when he was 9 years old in the Syrian town of Bosra. Now explain what i made up please?
@@killerpie5981 It is also pointed out by many that Islam and the earlier Christian heresy of Arianism share many similaritys. No offence is meant, i just enjoy history.
Thank You,Thank You,Thank You,Thank You,Thank You,Thank You,Thank You,Thank You for this!
Tons of heretics denying the Trinity within the comments on this video. It's actually unbelievable.
I was thinking the same thing.
Im a born again Christian and I find more use for toilet paper then a 3 headed God
@@chrislasala your father satan approves your message
The trinity is catholic not Hebrew or biblical
@@chrislasala if that's true your merely a tare among the wheat.
PS: I have seen your phoney deliverance videos. The only way you're casting out a demon is when you're sitting on a toilet bowl
1. Say He is Allah the One God.
2. Allah is the Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).
3. “He begets not, nor was He begotten;
4. “And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him.”
to the muslim God is master and slave relationship in christianity its a father and children relationship a stark difference
@@JR-tl8tg for the relationship between God and humans to be consider as a father and a son is an utter lie and injustice to the God Almighty. The relationship you mentioned demand equality in every characteristic, where the God Almighty is ultimate in those characteristics and the human is so limited and dependent on God for His Mercy and compassion
@@sanamouneimneh4113 So in your household, a man is addressed as Master and not Father and wive and childrens are slaves. It's horrendously flawed what makes you so sure that the master and slave relationship isn't one big lie?
@@JR-tl8tg @J R Again your comparison is wrong. We cannot compare the relationship of God and His creation to the relationship of the human beings with each other. The slavery of humans to God is that they are bound by Him and dependent on Him for His Mercy, compassion and care. The humans since they are limited and flawed they would cause unjustice and misery to others. Like the Americans caused unjustice and misery to their slaves few years back. God however is ultimately Merciful and just. He would only cause happiness and satisfaction to His slaves if they believed in Him and worshipped Him and its not a lie, because we believers experienced it, lived by it and we are happy with it.
This was interesting. Thanks
Such a good teacher! Christ bless.
I'm not Christian or religious for that matter but I think Arius is correct. It seems to me that Athanasius won because Arius's teachings were too complex for the human of that time period. And keeping cohesion of the church was more important politically for Constantine then who was more correct.
The speaker also makes an assertion that arius had a "greek" position as it relates to how the pagan gods did not interfere with humans (4:51). That must be a joke because Zeus was constantly involving himself with the human world, particularly human females.
Considering we come from primates, the idea of a hierarchy is hard wired into humans. From the Arian position, the tetragrammaton is #1 and Jesus is #2. Apart from Republican Rome where you had 2 consuls or the triumvirate period around the time of julius, etc. the idea that the supreme god would share power or was somehow a multi personality being would not have resonated well with a largely illiterate congregation. But perhaps the bishops of the time had this in mind when they agreed to the trinitarian creed. If you can make them believe in something rather practically illogical then you can make them believe and do anything. To dismiss the political power play would also be folly. During that time period the official books of the bible were chosen by men and those discarded became the apocrypha. Putting aside "divine inspiration" we can assume the selection was political as was Athanasius's triumph over Arius. The assumption that God can never be known leads to another dilemma: if God can never be understood at even a basic level then why even have a scripture to analyze? He gave us the ability to be literate and use reason just not the bible or itself? Damned if you do, damned if you dont. Sounds like mental slavery to me.
@Srbin Srbinovic Well thank for sharing your short opinion.
@Srbin Srbinovic The assertion that an omnipotent god punished someone is an opinion, not a provable fact.
@Srbin Srbinovic Didnt I mention at the beginning of this thread that I wasnt religious?
"Only a God-Man can reconcile us to God." "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"--1 Timothy 2:5
Right. As the pagans and devotees of Mithras taught.
Where in the Bible did you pull "God-Man" out of?
@The Bible is a trinitarian book Definition of demigod = someone who is treated as fully man and fully god. What the heck is god to begin with any talk on 'God'? What god, which god, whose god? BTW, have you heard 'Elohim' (= the Almighty one) (or 'elohim' = gods)?
We need more of you
A great theological lesson that all religious people need to listen, especially Jehovah Witness!
Thank you for your presentation, but I couldn't help but notice that you never quoted a single scripture to prove any of your points. That matters. Please consider this. I am sure you would agree without reservation or explanation that the one true God is and always has been immortal. It would therefore be impossible for God to die. If Jesus Christ was God it would also be impossible for him to die. We would agree that for Jesus to provide atonement for mankind's sins it would be necessary for him to die. He did die as the scriptures tell us. Therefore he could not possibly be almighty God. No trinitarian can refute this point. Not one.
Cognoscenti Cycles did just Jesus rise back and was lifted to heave as the scriptures tell us?
Cognoscenti Cycles are you a satanist?
☝🏽👍🏼Great post, Cognoscenti.
Arius makes more sense to me, especially after reading the Holy Bible.
“For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.”(1 Corinthians 15:27,28)
great job I wish we ccan call on facebook or any other App to discuss this
Is there any proof that what Athanasius says concerning the teachings of Arius is what Arius did say or just Athanasius view on Arius?
None at all. As you know, they burned all copies of his writings and condembed TO DEATH any one harboring copies. Make you wonder? It should.
Even this guy had to admit that Arias made two fatal mistakes: 1) his interpretation and use of scripture was very good and, 2) his reasoning was sound. If that's not enough to get one condemned I'm not sure what is.
@@Thomas_Geist you feel special opposing the generally accepted idea right. Well let me burst you bubbles and tell you that you have no basis for your claims that arius was right he might have been a good theologian but he sure as hell lost the debate cause he just as you had no basis for his claim.no actually he had basis alright but orthodox church's basis was better
Yeah, we have the full recorded debate and by the scribes at that time. Well if you want to say the scribes changed it well thats your choice
yohannes mulugeta : Right. I forgot more about history than apparently you know. The German tribes became Arian. Who won, Jackass?
when you placed your forehead near the camera, that was spooky and scary. no need for that. OMG.
LAUGHING SO HARD
@@biblereaderstalkpodcast6445 Just for laughs. But thanks for your video!
I too an Arian
So... When Jesus says that he speaks NOTHING of his own initiative or from his own self, but ONLY what the Father commanded him to say, we should just ignore that because sometimes Jesus said "I say to you" (John 5:30; 12:49)?? When Jesus continues subordinate even after returning to heaven (still calling the Father "my God" at Revelation 3:12, for example), we are to just ignore that?? And when the apostle Peter makes it clear that Jesus did NOT raise himself from the dead, but was raised up BY GOD, and was entrusting his soul into God's hands, knowing that God would not forsake him in the grave, but would raise him... nevertheless you think it is more accurate to say that Jesus was a God-Man who raised himself (Acts 2:24-28, 31, 32)?? The Scriptures call Jesus "the last Adam" (1 Corinthians 15:45). Was Adam a "God-man"? Of course not. And nor would it have been a RANSOM if something greater than a perfect man like Adam had been given in Adam's place. Ransoms are correspondences of value.Arius wasn't being clever in his use of the Bible. It doesn't require cleverness. Jesus says, in prayer to the Father, that the Father is the ONLY true God, distinct from Jesus (read John 17:1-3). Paul affirms again that the ONLY God for Christians is the Father (read 1 Corinthians 8:6). This is not some clever trickery. Any divine-seeming action or statement of Jesus has to be understood in the light of these Scriptural qualifiers. Jesus was very unique and glorious in how he represented and revealed God to us; but he is not himself God. He has someone he calls "my God" (John 20:17), and he even denied being "good" because only God is truly "good" (Luke 18:18, 19). You are much mistaken.
+Mentat1231 John 10:18
averitas
What's your point? The Father does indeed give Jesus that commandment, and Jesus obeys. (compare also Acts 2:23, 24).
Tarragon Mugwort
So you are your father? "God" is not a "kind" (like "human"); it's a title of a particular being.
Tarragon Mugwort
Take it easy. It's hilarious to me that someone who thinks 3 = 1 is saying *we* have the problem thinking logically! Look, you said that Jesus must be God because he is begotten by God. By that same reasoning, you would have to be your father, because you are begotten by him.
Now, if you are considering "God" to be a kind of thing, instead of a particular thing, then you'll have a lot of explaining to do as to why the entire Bible refers to God with SINGULAR PRONOUNS ("He", "Him", etc) and why Deuteronomy 6:4 emphatically says "Yahweh our God is ONE Yahweh". The pluralizing of "Elohim" is done to denote majesty or grandeur. This is a common practice in ancient Hebrew. Look it up. At Judges 16:23, Dagon is referred to with a form of the word "elohim" as well; but the associated verb is singular indicating only one Dagon, with a plural "elohim" for denoting majesty. Again, at Genesis 42:30, Joseph is spoken of as the “lord” (’adho·nehʹ, which is plural) of Egypt.
Besides, if it actually meant a plural of the Hebrew word for "God" then that would mean there are many "Gods", which is polytheism. Are you a polytheist?
Note also that, when Jesus quotes Deut. 6:4 at Mark 12:29, he uses a SINGULAR word for "God" (Greek: "theos"); not a plural.
Tarragon Mugwort
You didn't address that God is always referred to with singular pronouns. "He", not "they".
Jesus calls the Father "my God", and says that his God is the same as our God (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12). That means he worships the same God we do: Yahweh or Jehovah, in English.
The existence of polytheistic, pagan religions is NOT irrelevant, since it is exactly what Jehovah, the God of the Jews, is distinguishing Himself from in Deuteronomy. They worship many different persons who are all of the "kind" or "category" called "Gods"; but Jehovah tells His people that He is the ONLY one who is God, and there is no one else besides Him.
Besides, my point was that "Elohim", if taken as a plural, means "many gods". And, unless you are a polytheistic pagan, you do not believe in many gods. So you can't use the point about the plurality of the word "Elohim". It is pluralized for grandeur or majesty, just as "adoneh" is pluralized in Joseph's case.
You say the Bible never identifies God as one person, and yet it actually does so *every single time it uses a singular personal pronoun for Him.* Moreover, Jesus said at John 4:24 that God is A SPIRIT. That's singular, and cannot include three distinct spirit persons (including "the holy spirit" who is clearly a distinct spirit, and yet you think is somehow part of God who Jesus says is a single spirit).
At Hebrews 9:24, it says that Jesus now appears before the face of God in our behalf. That expression "before the face of" means to stand in a person's presence. Why does it say that Jesus stands before God's face, if Jesus is God Himself?? You see? Your doctrine just doesn't fit in with the clear testimony of Scripture. There is only one God, and Jesus is the mediator between that one God and us (1 Timothy 2:5; 1 Cor. 8:6).
You can't accommodate these clear Scriptural statements into your doctrine. Nor can you explain why Jesus calls someone "my God" even after returning to his heavenly glory. Or why, even after Jesus has returned to his heavenly position, the apostles start many of their epistles with "blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ"! Jesus has someone he considers to be his God, whom he worships. That means that Jesus is not God Himself. Indeed, Jesus explicitly says that the Father is the ONLY true God at John 17:3. I am on the side of Jesus and the apostles on this matter. Are you?
Nicely explained brother. God bless you.
Constantine after the Council of Nicaea is supposed to have had doubts he made the right decision in opposing the Arians. He was later baptised by an Arian bishop called Eusebius towards the end of his life.
Arguments:
-Jesus spoke of his own accord?
-John 8:40 Jesus told the truth he heard from God
John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me"
-Jesus Christ heals, only God can do that?
-Acts 19:11-12 Apostles also performed healing miracles
Acts 2:22 God was the healer through Jesus, "I can of my own self do nothing" -John 5:30
-Forgive sins?
-Mark 2:10 "But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" Where did he get authority? John 5:26-27 From the God the Father
-Changes the Law?
-Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them"
-Only a God dies and rises from the dead?
-I Tim 1:17 God is everlasting and immortal. He cannot die.
-Acts 2:24 Jesus didn't ressurect himself. God brought Jesus back to life
-Jesus shows full equality with the father?
-I Cor. 15:27-28 Naaaaaah
Conclusions regarding God
-Rom 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
-Isa. 45:5 "There is no God besides Me" - said God the Father
-John 17:1-3 "That they may know You the only true God" -said Jesus to God the Father
-I Tim. 2:5-6 For there is one God.
Only 1 God. The Father in heaven as taught by the Lord Jesus Christ himself.
2 Corinthians 11:3-4 New International Version (NIV)
3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
r u a christian?
@@soussal3000 why r u asking about his religion ?
@@nabilfennia1908 Well, you see he's kinda been ambiguous with his comment. But it seems like he is not a Christian by the negatively critiquing nature of his comment.
Because he seems to be making a case against Christ's oneness with the Father in authority and Divinity. This guy, as the theologian in the video explained about what the heretic Arius was doing, is only referencing the verses in all the canons that show Jesus's "sub-ordination" to the Father... None of the verses above show the co-equal, co-eternal, and oneness in essence of Christ to the Father.
For example these verses:
1. But from now on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God." - Luke 22:69
2. And they all said, “Are You the Son of God, then?” And He said to them, “Yes, I am.” - Luke 22:70
3. I and the Father are one.” - John 10:30
4. "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me." John 10:37
5. but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.” - John 10:38
6. "He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me." - John 12:45
7. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.” Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?" - John 14:7-10
8. "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you." - John 16:15
9. Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” - Matthew 16:16
10. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." - John 1:1
11. "He was in the beginning with God." - John 1:2
12. who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord." - Romans 1:4
13. "Whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen." - Romans 9:5
14. "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." - Colossians 9:15
15. "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." - Colossians 2:9
16. "By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness:
He who was revealed in the flesh,
Was vindicated in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Proclaimed among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
Taken up in glory." - 1 Timothy 3:16
17. "Which He will bring about at the proper time-He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords." - 1 Timothy 6:15
18. "And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. - Hebrews 1:3
19. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” - Revelations 19:16
20. And behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.” - Matthew 3:17
21. While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” - Matthew 17:5
22. "There is another who testifies of Me, and I know that the testimony which He gives about Me is true." - John 5:32
23. "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form." - John 5:37
24. "I am He who testifies about Myself, and the Father who sent Me testifies about Me.” - John 8:18
25. "If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son." - 1 John 5:9
I wonder what contexts it is that you will find any of the above verses on this comment appropriate for a prophet or just messenger of God.
So I believe that, the person who made the comment seemingly as a case against Christ's Divinity, must be a Muslim. Judging by your name, you seem like a Muslim which is why you're so passionately defending his stance.
I am making a lot of assumptions. However, my deductions do seem very logical.
Have a good day.
I’m not like my father .. but I’m father too
But that does not make you the same being as your father.
This is super interesting. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believes a blend of these two thoughts. They believe in three separate beings, the Son and Spirit being subordinate to the Father. But they also teach that, while Christ is the son of God in the flesh, before the world was His spirit was also the offspring of God, allowing Him to be equal with God, or “of the same essence” (so long as He is sinless, which He is).
I like the attitude and your confidence, shows your competence
Athanasius is saint while arius is not.
I am sorry but Arius explanation of Jesus makes a lot more sense than "the god man"
Making "sense" to man is not the purpose of life. If you don't believe GOD can send himself in the flesh , then you don't believe God to be THE Creator of all things visible and invisible.
The view that Arius had is actually much closer to what the Bible teaches. The God of the OT is Unitarian, not trinitarian. ( The Jews should know). Jesus prayed to and worshiped this God.
Ewan Kerr please ,what means OT? Thank you
Old Testament Hebrew Scriptures, The Bible at the time of Jesus.
@@myNameIsNot- : It depends on how you understand the use of the word 'trinity.' Certainly , all Church fathers before Nicea were subordinationists. Arius believed that there was a time when the Son was not. This does not fit in within the current doctrine of the Trinity
Please, no patronizing needed here. A diverse view does not necessarily mean a lesser understanding of Scriptures. It is true that sometimes Jesus spoke on His own authority, but He also acknowledged that His authority was given by His Father and that "The Father Greater than All is".
Thank you for this both illuminating and sympathetic video on Arius’s views
Very complicated stuff. Can't God just just forgive sins? Why this incarnation Man-God confusing theology.
+Tarragon Mugwort. I guess at least half the new testament had to be dedicated to explain this concept. I doubt the early christians believed in any of it.
+Sherif El-Hadi if you read "on the incarnation" by St Athanasius of Alexandria, he says that the problem was of corruption. Humanity was living in corruption and was being corrupted in its life away from God after the fall!
That would be the equivalent of a judge finding a defendant guilty and then saying "I forgive you" ... how is God holy and just in that instance?
Jason Briski
So the solution is the God kills his innocent son? Where is the justice and the logic in that?
A judge finds a defendant guilty and the punishment is that this judge gets his son and crucifies him? Crucifixion is a nasty slow agonising way to die. In the Gospels it takes only a few hours for death to happen but the usual time is 3 days and the naked corpse is left to rot and be eaten by scavengers on the cross.
Is this justice?? Can this be allowed to occur to any holy person??
That's the beauty of the Gospel message. God loves us even though we are his enemies (Romans 5:10, Ephesians 2:3). Jesus, who is God in the flesh, suffers and dies to pay for our sins. It's exactly as Peter records it: "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God" (1 Peter 3:18). Whereas one of us might give our life to save another good person (like falling on a hand grenade on the field of battle), Jesus dies for people who hate him. "At the right time, Christ died for the ungodly." (Romans 5:6). It's a demonstration of love and it brings together God's love (expressed through Christ) and God's justice (sin must incur a penalty). What if the son asked to be punished?
awesome so JW's are modern days Arians
Arguments:
-Jesus spoke of his own accord?
-John 8:40 Jesus told the truth he heard from God
John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me"
-Jesus Christ heals, only God can do that?
-Acts 19:11-12 Apostles also performed healing miracles
Acts 2:22 God was the healer through Jesus, "I can of my own self do nothing" -John 5:30
-Forgive sins?
-Mark 2:10 "But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" Where did he get authority? John 5:26-27 From the God the Father
-Changes the Law?
-Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them"
-Only a God dies and rises from the dead?
-I Tim 1:17 God is everlasting and immortal. He cannot die.
-Acts 2:24 Jesus didn't ressurect himself. God brought Jesus back to life
-Jesus shows full equality with the father?
-I Cor. 15:27-28 Naaaaaah
Conclusions regarding God
-Rom 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
-Isa. 45:5 "There is no God besides Me" - said God the Father
-John 17:1-3 "That they may know You the only true God" -said Jesus to God the Father
-I Tim. 2:5-6 For there is one God.
Only 1 God. The Father in heaven as taught by the Lord Jesus Christ himself.
2 Corinthians 11:3-4 New International Version (NIV)
3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
Not really, Arians worship Christ, they consider him to be different from God, whose name is Jehovah, but they still worship him. We do not worship Christ, for he is not God, nor do we consider God incapable of making himself a person, he is all powerful after all, but we do hold that in no way did he. There are similarities but we carry the reasoning to it's logical conclusion, and have certain other doctrines you would consider heretical, such as the fact we reject infant baptism and abstain from political involvement.
Interesting that the writings of Arius were all destroyed but we still know what he taught. It is safer going by the teachings of the Bible then the teachings of men.
What would be the teaching regarding Jesus (my fav guy), in the view of Judaic belief? Let say the messianic Judaism. I get the sense that in the writting of St Paul, the feeling and mood would be very Judaic no? Should i conclude Arianism is closed to Judaism? Jesus still belong to the judaic realm...
No the Jews believe Christ is burning in hell in a lake of shit and piss and semon.
They are of their father the devil.
To them it is not a question of trinity or not.
They hate God and do the will of their father.
Arius was arguing for a single god, for monotheism. The trinity thing is simply ludicrous.
Tfw you rely on 1800 year old arguments to refute Christianity 😂🤦🏻♂️💀
this video was freaky as nuts dude
+Adam Harwell Agreed!
Thanks God always
Great explanation.
So many Arian heretics commenting... Come back to Christ and the Holy Catholic Church for the salvation of your souls.
th-cam.com/video/z7Ry_uEMG-k/w-d-xo.html
Wow way to convince them lol
T-shirt Tube, your video is not the authority of faith! so it is not to be followed! That is Satan's trick. Mr. Arian was a former Catholic. He was used and he allowed himself to be used by Satan against the church established by Jesus Christ himself. The truth is, any church established by men are all fake church of God! The only true church of God is the Catholic because this is not established by any man, not even Peter Simon, for Simon just continue the teaching and commands of Jesus to him, like when Jesus commanded Peter to feed His young Lambs, take care of His Lambs!
No other church Jesus established, not two or more because that will be competing to one another! So believe in the Catholic, for this is the true Church of Jesus Christ! Amen and Amen!
T-shirt Tube, for your information and for the information of all, Mr. Arius was a former Catholic Priest, before he established his false faith, he studied the catholic faith and became a catholic priest! And there are so many catholic priest that established their own new faith, even if they knew that Jesus has warned earlier during his time that there will many come a false prophets. some will say Lord we preached your gospel, we cured sick in your name, we drive out demons in your name, but as Jesus said he will answer all them, get away from me, I don't know you doers of evil!
So beware all people that other than the Catholic, all are fake churches, a competitors of Christ's Church, the Catholic,
Wow, how unlike Jesus! Even if someone is a. Unitarian, they can still be saved. Salvation does not depend on your belief of the Trinitarian doctrine or not. Salvation depends on a person's belief in God and in their obedience to God. Just like a a parent desires a child's obedience more so than the child's acceptance of the parent's truth.
Another video that I hoped would be neutral and objective about Arius. Again, I was sorely disappointed. Arius has been villified and crucified by more theologians than you can shake a stick at.
Par for the course for all Aryans in this Clown World I am beginning to see a pattern.
Bro dont see arius as a helpless priest that was alone arguing with orthodox christians, he had disciples too, he had many followers. And he was quiet a debater. But his point was clearly wrong if you can read his points. And also shows that the doctrine of the trinity was around much much earlier than the nichean creed. The opposers were clearly angry at him because he was misleading others by his mislead doctrine not cause they were evil people who wanted to kill him. I saw muslims and many others saying that ,wanted to tell you if you believed that too.
@@yohannesmulugeta6214 True, the Muslim take is that Arius had the much more accurate position. But my personal background aside , just listening this simple explanation, I find Arius's view very rational and coherent; aside from the part where it is mentioned that he believed God is not concered with our frivilous affairs; that sounds like a deist take and belittles our existance. On the other hand Ahtensius' view seems very problematic and contradictory in many ways. Surely God by definition is the omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. If Jesus was a God, not inferior to the Father in any way, all while being on Earth, then surely he would have to remain being those all three things. Simply put, still be almighty. How then, can he be considered a man at the same time. Or if he was confined of human limitations how is the still considered God. How could we even clearly distinct between human and God if there is an entity that can overlap the two even to the slightest extent. Too panthesitic. We as humans all know very well the clear and rather confining limitations of the human , both physically and mentally , our capabilites are infintesimally small if compared to any form of power we could call limitless. And what does if mean when you say Jesus died if he didnt experience conventional death. How do you even call that death. So if Jesus hadnt died for the sins of humans than our death would mean hell or ethernal oblivian at best. Jesus would have known that niether of these would be a reality for himself, so how is he even sacrificing himself for us. He knows he is God on the cross. Even if he suffered he did not go to hell for us. He was tortured but that was temporary and our whole belief in an afterlife is directly correlated to us understanding that suffering on earth is nothing compared to hell and similarly the pleasures are not comparible to heaven. How can you say he died for our sins if he only experienced some physical pain for some days.Wheres the real sacrifice in all of this that merits the redemption of all humanity. Even other mere mortals have suffered more by means of torture, war or of other travesties. JUst look at videos of the shell shocked after WW1. Finally after this world has come to and end and the afterlife period begins, what becomes of the Son and the Holy spirit, as it seems that this whole division would have served its purpose and only was meaningful in a specific context , Jesus only being meaningful as a Human/God on Earth, so Jesus' existance would become obsolete. Would Jesus simply cease to exist, all three entities morphing back into an unified state. Surely you wont see a separate Son and Father in the same space as they are they same thing. BUt there would be no need to be in two separate 'bodies' for lack of a better term. How will this distinction between humans, The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit all play out in the afterlife.
@@adememresadkoglu1532 Jesus did go to hell
@@MWcrazyhorse Shame on you.
How Christian of you to vilify the persons that might sincerely believe something different than you.
Any person considering being a " christian," would think twice when reading the nasty comments of " christians," against other Christians.
Attack an argument and NOT the person making the argument.
Since Yashua son of Mary ( peace be upon him) is not known of prior to his birth - then how are those that lived and died prior to the birth of Yashua suppose to seek salvation.?
You have arrived at the idea of the "Limbo of the Fathers" or "Limbo of the Patriarchs" - not to be confused with the theologoumenon ((Whew - I had to check the spelling on that!) theological hypothesis or theological speculation) of the "Limbo of the Infants." The "First Epistle of Peter" tells of Jesus after the Crucifixion but before the Resurrection descending to the dead and preaching (1 Peter 3:18-19): "18 It was thus that Christ died as a ransom, paid once for all, on behalf of our sins, he the innocent for us the guilty, so as to present us in God’s sight. In his mortal nature he was done to death, but endowed with fresh life in his spirit, 19 and it was in his spirit that he went and preached to the spirits who lay in prison."
Thank you & beautiful explanation!!!
I've been an atheist before, and I know nothing bout arius and athenasius regarding their understanding about GOD, when I started to seek and come before THE MOST HIGH and CREATOR OF ALL.
My understanding about THE FATHER, and of HIS Son and Christ is without controversy,
and base solely in Christ Jesus example, how He submitted to the Will of His FATHER and GOD. Till I heard about the trinity. This doctrine in my opinion brings confusion and division to the Body of Christ.
I'm a Born Again, not of flesh but by The Spirit of GOD, THE FATHER and The Son that dwells in me. With both of THEM, I've learned not to bother in things that may affect my growth and faith.
Jesus teaches us to Love GOD first, and love one another, nothing more nothing less. We should continue to grow and bear the fruits of The Spirit. Believers should not be the cause of the stumbling or destruction of their siblings in Christ Jesus. Our enemy is inside and outside of the congregation. The apostles warned us about false teachers, if their teaching brings confusion and division, then its not from GOD.
Sheep of Jesus knew His voice, and follows Him.
For me, THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD, THE FATHER, for WHOM are all things, and I in HIM, and One Lord Jesus Christ, by Whom are all things, and I by Him.
"The Grace of The Lord Jesus Christ(The Son of GOD), and The Love of GOD(THE FATHER), and The Fellowship of The Holy Spirit(GOD PRESENCE, that dwells in, and unite all believers), be with us all."
2 Corinthians 13:14
Arius was right, you're trying to justify athanasius, but you're performing mental gymnastics... As much as you try to run away from it the fact remains that it's a policyistic belief.
Hebrews 1:3
“The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and *the exact representation of his being* , sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.”
Colossians 1:15
The Son is *the image of the invisible God* , the firstborn over all creation.
Colossians 2:9
For in Christ *all the fullness of the Deity lives* in bodily form,
@@ricoparadiso nothing says he’s the father god. A son always come after the father.
But didn't Jesus still have the stain of original sin which was then cleansed when he was baptized by John the Baptist in River Jordan?
No because he was conceived of the Holy Spirit. Sin is passed covenantally and paternally in my view (Westminster Presbyterian)
Would you describe Jehovah's Witnesses and similar sects who deny the Trinity as 'modern-day Arians'? Did not St Athanasius write an extended version of the Creed which is even more strongly anti-Arian than the Nicene Creed?
Wow, he never answered back, after all this time! Bummer... cuz that sounds like a good question!
Jehovah’s Witnesses are semi-Arian.
Athanasius wrote the Athanasian Creed. Some say it was written in the fifth century, but that’s not proven. The Athanasian Creed describes the Trinity more fully.
Adam Noah Abraham moses worshiped one ☝🏽 God, instead of accusing Arius and lying in Jesus, “where you came with the trinity ?”
Church keep hiding the truth, Arius fought against the biggest lie in history, he was the real follower of Jesus not the ones who worshiped him and his mom after 325 years !!!
That's why Arius was oppressed. Surely good meaning people were at the councils but they stood by while Arius was mistreated.
Arguments:
-Jesus spoke of his own accord?
-John 8:40 Jesus told the truth he heard from God
John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me"
-Jesus Christ heals, only God can do that?
-Acts 19:11-12 Apostles also performed healing miracles
Acts 2:22 God was the healer through Jesus, "I can of my own self do nothing" -John 5:30
-Forgive sins?
-Mark 2:10 "But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" Where did he get authority? John 5:26-27 From the God the Father
-Changes the Law?
-Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them"
-Only a God dies and rises from the dead?
-I Tim 1:17 God is everlasting and immortal. He cannot die.
-Acts 2:24 Jesus didn't ressurect himself. God brought Jesus back to life
-Jesus shows full equality with the father?
-I Cor. 15:27-28 Naaaaaah
Conclusions regarding God
-Rom 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
-Isa. 45:5 "There is no God besides Me" - said God the Father
-John 17:1-3 "That they may know You the only true God" -said Jesus to God the Father
-I Tim. 2:5-6 For there is one God.
Only 1 God. The Father in heaven as taught by the Lord Jesus Christ himself.
2 Corinthians 11:3-4 New International Version (NIV)
3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
The God-Man principle. It sounds completely ridiculous.
Sherif El-Hadi That is - because it is!!! It is nowhere in the Bible. That should alert Christians that Jesus nor God was a God-man!!! This term derived from the council of Chalcedon in 451 AD.
So what is your faith? Monotheist?
Priscilla Jervey
What is your faith?
Sherif El-Hadi
The Apostles wrote that Jesus Christ is God.
@@jofo817
And you believe that God, who created the whole universe should become a man and eat, drink and go to sleep.
Surely this is nonsense.
I was a Jehovah’s Witness. JWs are considered semi-arian by mainstream Trinitarian Christianity. Arians stated there was a time when Christ was not. Not eternal. The first of God’s creation. Trinitarians, Christ Eternal. No beginning. No end.
Do you believe in the Trinity now?
@@Christi_Bellator Yes. I’m englishgal234 now. I was baptised as a baby in the Church of England. I’m Episcopalian/Anglican, now. I like the Catholic faith as well.
Actually this guy is not telling the truth. Arius did not believe or taught that Jesus was created. It was what his enemies said he believed. Arius believed that Jesus was the literal only begotten Son of God. The Trinty teaching does not believe that.
Russell perverted what Arius believed to defer people from the truth, an old trick of Satan.
Thank you for this video, sir.
Interesting video but I disagree with you. Your presentation skills are second to none, and your argument is the best and clearest example of Catholic theology that I have ever seen, for which I am thankful. You are, however, speaking from a clear and obvious bias against the Arian argument from the beginning and fail to assess that argument on it's merits...you fall into setting it up as a straw man only to the extent that it sets up your argument. Your summary of Arianism is incomplete and incorrect and your assessment of pagan/greek influence is also one-sided and misleading. You need to spend more time analyzing the greek influences of that era in order to understand the subtleties of Ariainism and Nicea and less time working backwards from your own preconfigured conclusions. The Church never really got over this kind of controversy and the problem still needs to be worked out....
Who else had the power to forgive sins?
@@choicemeatrandy6572 "By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me."...?
@@myhateTV All due respect that doesn't answer my question
@@choicemeatrandy6572 for me, thats the only answer for his non divinity. and he said it clearly. if u only looking for answer that fits ur judgement, then the truth will never fits u.
@@myhateTV Denying Christ's divinity is not only unbiblical it's ahistorical.
Arius explanation is more comprehensive than Satanasius (Athanasius). There is One Supreme being, the Father) . Jesus is inferior of the Father, but has semi essence/attributes with the Father (the reason why Jesus can perform god-like acts), but not one or equal in essence/attributes with the Father. Jesus can forgive sins, because he was given authority by the Father in heaven and on earth, which includes the authority to forgive sins. Jesus is also known as the Lamb of God because he played the role of a sacrificial lamb in the time of Moses, sacrificed for the atonement /forgiveness of the sins of the Israelites.
No it wasn't more comprehensive. By the way St. Athanasius's claim was not his personal claim it was the claim of all the early christians and christians at that time. And i understand you but jesus is God in human form. He is the son of God. The father him self said that about him. And i want you to know that son doesn't mean a boy born out of a woman's womb. Let me give you an example : if you take a bread or stone and break and take some part of it does that broken peace be a different thing form the original bread or a stone it was broken off? Does that change its substance of nature? no it doesn't. Its the same stone or bread but in different forms that is what its is meant about jesus being a begotten son of God not a born child from a womb. So jesus is God cause he is from God not spiritually but physically. I hope you get what im saying. And thats the trinity. God the father not jesus cause he didn't become human, and God jesus not human cause he is God the father. That why we say 1 God three persons. We believe in 1 God, God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit. Again i hope you get it
And also if you want to learn more read there debate and you will see that it was based on the bible that arius lost. And you will learn more
@@yohannesmulugeta6214 Church politics is the reason, Arius lost.. Alexander who was opposed to Arius is very influential figure in the Early Catholic Church. Nothing has change in today's Church politics.. The tyrannical majority rules over the enlightened minority.
@@yohannesmulugeta6214 i just hope you are not confused of your explanation.
A very nice explanation. Thank you
Arius was mistaken on some points, as you state. Particularly the idea that God is impersonal regarding humankind. However, the Apostle Paul was a subordinationist (2 Corinthians 15:27-28).
So is Jesus, apparently, since Jesus says "If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’" (John 8:54) and "All power and authority have been GIVEN to me" which is why He could speak on His own authority. ( Matt 28:18) Jesus accepted the statement of the scribe who said, regarding who God is, "“You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that He is one, and there is no other besides Him.”(Mark 12:32)
Does Jesus pre-date Abraham? Of course He does, as He was with the Father from the beginning (which is a specific date in time).
However, that alone does not explain why David separates the two, the Holy Spirit saying through him, "I will tell of the decree: The LORD said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.” Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him. (Psalms 2:7-12)
Even though it's flawed.. it's use of Scripture and reasoning was good. Sounds to me like Arianism actually MADE SENSE and this was catching traction thus had to be quenched by the organized Roman Church.
Roman? Athanasius was Egyptian / Coptic.
@@medotaku9360 Athanasius died in 373 AD, and the Coptic Church was in full communion with Rome until the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD.
Sounds like a bunch of Pharisees over intellectualizing the divine for their own egotistical ends
Well said!!!
Catholicism.
Basically. In one word.
I feel its this way as a Christian; God takes away sin Through Jesus. As You say it , we get pulled through- that is those of us who believe. Jesus speaks about and to his Father. He is not saving himself. He can be inferior to God because God can make everything.
Arguments:
-Jesus spoke of his own accord?
-John 8:40 Jesus told the truth he heard from God
John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me"
-Jesus Christ heals, only God can do that?
-Acts 19:11-12 Apostles also performed healing miracles
Acts 2:22 God was the healer through Jesus, "I can of my own self do nothing" -John 5:30
-Forgive sins?
-Mark 2:10 "But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" Where did he get authority? John 5:26-27 From the God the Father
-Changes the Law?
-Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them"
-Only a God dies and rises from the dead?
-I Tim 1:17 God is everlasting and immortal. He cannot die.
-Acts 2:24 Jesus didn't ressurect himself. God brought Jesus back to life
-Jesus shows full equality with the father?
-I Cor. 15:27-28 Naaaaaah
Conclusions regarding God
-Rom 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
-Isa. 45:5 "There is no God besides Me" - said God the Father
-John 17:1-3 "That they may know You the only true God" -said Jesus to God the Father
-I Tim. 2:5-6 For there is one God.
Only 1 God. The Father in heaven as taught by the Lord Jesus Christ himself.
2 Corinthians 11:3-4 New International Version (NIV)
3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
As a non trinitarian- you may be surprised to hear that I disagree greatly with Arius. The father and the son and the spirit operate under the will of the father- Jesus subjected himself to the fathers will despite asking if the cup could pass from him under the torment he endured as he bled from every pore. However- Jesus was WITH the father from the beginning. He was spiritually begotten of the father- and is allowed to share his fathers throne. There is plenty of scriptural evidence to support the idea that Jesus and the father are separate persons. Stephen the martyr saw Christ standing next to god for example. The fathers voice came from heaven as the Holy Ghost descended in the form of a dove during christs baptism. Christ, the Holy Ghost and the father make up one god UNIT. But Jesus says he can do nothing of himself- but only what the father has shown him. Signifying his authority comes from the father- that said he is one with the father because he is perfectly submissive to him- thus he is one with him.
***JESUS SAID " MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I** SO THIS MAN IS UNEDUCATED IN THE BIBLE***💥💥
WHAT HAS "GREATER "GOT TO DO WITH JESUS NOT BEING GOD
Arius was correct .. Arius taught the same believe as all of the previous prophets of God.. Adam, Noah, Abraham, David, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. God is one. and all of these are prophets (Humans) appointed by God to tell us how to pray to God and do good so we can enter paradise. not a single prophet preached that God had a son... never.... what you teaching here is plasphme against God.. the Trintiy is a Pagan believe of the Romans which as adobted by Constintine and he killed alll the true followers of Jesus from 325 AD till 500 AD.. Know O Isreal your lord and my lord is one" in exdous 20 God told Moses there is nothing in the heaven or on Earth or beneath the seas that looks like God. this prooves that God nothing looks like God.. soi If any human preaches that he is the son of GOd then he is a lier becuase God in Exodus 20 says there is nothing looks like him.. Jesus never anywhere in the Bible says Worship me.. or pray to me.. so wake up and rad about ISLAM read the QURAN.. do no make partners with GOD.. this sin will never be forgiven by GOD>
Each to his own beliefs, Islam teaches differently you need to respect the faith and understanding of others btw in case you did not know this is a Christian channel take your understanding to your sect of belivers don't go trashing what others believe.
The Marquis De Luchet reports on his famous work: " Essai sur la secte de illumines". That the Cainites, incited their hatred towards all social and moral order "called upon all men to destroy the work of God and to commit every kind of infamy.
Arianism, the great heresy, which split Christianity over three centuries, was the work of a concealed Djue, who outwardly practiced Christianity but was set to destroy it.
Book reference:
History of Gnosticism by J. Matter.---
History of Jacobinism by Playfair.
The Plot Against The Church by Maurice Pinay.---
The War Of Anti Christ Against The Church by George E. Dillon.---
Wolves Within by Pope Saint Pius X.---
nestorianism + Arius makes perfect sense
Excellent until your explanation of atonement which you said was wrong but your explanation confirmed clearly 😭😎
Arius called to the oneness of God without the influences of pagan theologies.. Trinity is shared between mainstream Christians now and Hindus, Greeks, Egyptians as well as Babylonians, trinity actually predates Jesus and is flawed from many perspectives.. Father and Son relationship between God and Jesus is a mistake in translation from the original language of Jesus. I call the readers to probe the teachings of Arius from an unbiased view and give it the benefit of doubt.
+Tarragon Mugwort provide evidence buddy
Jason Briski in hébreu and aramic and arabic there is 2 kind of plural
plural of numbrers and plural of respect
interpolation..
Tarragon Mugwort IM is a plurel of respect in hébreu languge and in arabic olso
Simo Micano like koran
Arius wasn't Heretic !!!
He was a true hero !!!
He has the true message of Jesus, then prophet come and complete message of the God.
Jesus is a prophet was sent by God, he's not son of God.
Muslims believe same as Arius, He is a real legend !!!
+Tarragon Mugwort
proud to be Muslim following the word of Allah Noble Qura'an and the footsteps of Muhammad (peace be upon him) the messenger of Allah/God and all other messengers and prophets without exception, and Proud to have the same righteous belief and path of Arius. May Allah gather us with all of them in Paradise, amine!. I kindly ask you too my brother in humanity to follow the same truth to be successful in this world and hereafter. Islam is not for only Arabs or specific people. it is for all humanity since the creation of Adam and all messengers of God taught Islam.
If Jesus was only a messenger of Allah, why did he say "Before Abraham was, I am."? (John 8:58)
Who was responsible for Christ's death? Who killed Jesus (Your God)?
Arius *also* believed that Jesus died on a cross for the salvation of mankind, unlike Muslims. Arius *also* believed that Jesus was the Logos in John 1, meaning that he believed that Jesus was a demiurgic being... _unlike Muslims._
As a Christian, I must agree with you.
Deut 6:4, Mark 12:29, John 17:3, and 1 Cor 15:24-28 make a clear distinction between the Father and the Son - between God and the messiah, or Christ.
There are many Christians out there who agree with you as well. The trinity is incompatible with the Shema. Good post. Arius was a good man.
I also made a video today about tje equality of God and Jesus....but in short. if Jesus said he was given all power and authority... doesnt that mean that anything he does is because God gave him that?
...the Word was God... the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1 boy.
Where was Jesus when he said that ?
Matthew 28:18-20 (ESV): 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.
Arius believed that Jesus was not only the spirit that moved on the face of the waters in the Old Testament, but Jesus was also the son indwelled by that same spirit. He believed in the divinity of the son, but not the eternal existence according to the flesh. Please don't mix up what we believe. We only desire to please Jesus in the way He would like.
You've done your homework. Imagine if they didn't burn all his writings.
@@Thomas_Geist Was a trinitarian for 40+ years. I see things different now that I have become a serious Bible student and seeker of God's will! Learning Greek has opened my eyes to a lot of bad doctrines in the church.
Daryl B And these bad doctrines have an historical and political context which are discoverable. The merging of Christianity and the Mithra cult is obvious to anyone with an once of honesty. Although the Pharisees - beginning around the 2nd Century BC - rejected the Classical Greek religion and pantheon they adopted the Greek method of analysis an attempted to apply it to the truths of the Tanakh and the Zadokite traditions with disastrous results such as the Talmud and Zohar. Jesus words that their traditions had, “NEGATED,” (not simply, “confused....) the Word of God are very radical ones. But since we also negated the Word of God by mixing it with Paganism “the Church” has no standing to say anything and so they keep doubling down. Let the Holy Spirit guide you through ALL truth. Entrance into the Kingdom is in single file.
Jesus was the literal Son of God, not a created being. Arius never taught that. This video is spreading lies about Arius. It was what his enemies said of him since he said Jesus had a beginning. Jesus was God by inheritance and He was not an angel, although He is mentioned as Michael.
There is no such God man in the scriptures.
Delfin Sabordo 2 Peter 1:1 “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”
Hmmmm......they kinda just referred to Jesus as God, so........you obviously haven’t read enough of the Bible
@@matthewmayuiers The construction, though certainly not a violation of the laws of the Greek language, is not so free from all doubt as to make it proper to use the passage as a proof-text in an argument for the divinity of the Saviour. It is easier to prove the doctrine from other texts that are plain, than to show that this must be the meaning here.
John Carlo Lacson Yeah, that’s true, Greek texts aren’t necessarily straight forward in the style familiar to us. There are verses that make a stronger claim to divinity than that, such as in Matthew 4:7 he explicitly affirms his claims to divinity, as well as the Prologue to the gospel of John, as well the use of “I am” in Matthew and John. I think those would be better examples, let me know what you think. Biblical interpretation and exegesis can be tough.
@@matthewmayuiers There are other times the phrase "I am" or "ego eimi"is used in the Gospel:
a centurion in Matt 8:9 and Luke 7:8,
Zechariah in Luke 1:18,
Gabriel in Luke 1:19,
a man blind from birth in John 9:9 who is healed by Jesus
Just because one says "I am " doesn't make one a God. Jesus taught who God is: the Father in Heaven - John 17:1-3. Jesus states that the Father is "the only true God"
The Lord Jesus' statement is congruent to God's proclamation that there is no one ther God besides Him - Isa. 45:5
And also consistent with Apostle Paul's affirmation that there is only one God. The Father. -I Tim. 2.5
John Carlo Lacson That’s interesting, so based off that interpretation would you deny the hypostatic union? Or how would those beliefs fit into your framework, if at all?
I am no academic, but I think Arius was and is still right.
Exactly that’s why they killed him....
Isaiah 43 v 10-11
The Holy Spirit or Spirit of God could not be subordinate to the Father with a beginning but that Spirit is also not a distinct person from the "Father" rather its the Fathers own Spirit. (His being) -The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord . The eternal Spirit of the living God. Therefore that Spirit is Divine.
Jesus is the Firstborn of all creation or the first of Gods works. He is before all things except the Father and has always been the Son. The fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. (from the will of another and the only other at that point in history would be the Father) So the firstborn is the exact image of the invisible God. (God in that context) Jesus has a beginning at some point in history before the world began but has no end. He was gifted the fullness from His God so the Son is the radiance of Gods glory and the exact representation of Gods being. And all that was made according to the Fathers will and by His command He made through Jesus.
The Son who was, His Spirit, was in the tent of the body God prepared for Him and the Father was living in Him doing His work.
Jesus on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"
Jesus Himself calls the Father the ONLY true God. He should know.
Jesus Himself calls the Father His God. He should know.
So to this question, "Is Jesus God?"
My answer would be
He never dies -put to death in the flesh but alive in the spirit.
Yes, He is all that the Father is - the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him
No, He has always been the Son.- Gods firstborn and the firstborn of all things
One God but also One Lord.
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include GOD himself, who put everything under Christ.
12:02 🤔...doesn't [Subordinate To] and [Fully Equal To] average out to a [Subordinate To]? Seems like to balance passages where Jesus shows himself to be subordinate to God The Father, you would need to find passages where God The Father is subordinate to Jesus, otherwise one side of that scale is going up... Also you can be 'one' with someone greater than you, so claims of One-ness, Same-ness, or other kinds of unity with someone don't refute a clear distinction that they are greater. 'Unity', 'One-ness', 'Same-ness', and 'Equality' can all be ambiguous concepts at times - in theology and elsewhere. But 'Greater-Than' vs. 'Less-Than' is not ambiguous - it's quite clear.
The bottom line is if you are a believer or a non believer you are saved because in the oneness we are all saved with Jesus and God through the wholely inspiring tea break, all tea breaks for the shared oneness!
You are not saved and Jesus did not die for your sins, you will be accountable for what you doing in this life, the only way to salvation is to follow God's messenger. As per the following verses
John 16: 7, Gospel
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send him to you.
John 14:26, Gospel
[And] the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom [God] the [Creator] will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said to you.
John 16:13, Gospel
[And thus,] when he, the Spirit of Truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he will hear, [that] he will speak, and he will show you things to come. "
If you read this verses, you will realize that Jesus peace be upon him, prophesy about the next and final prophet, and that prophet will bring the new revelation from God (the creator), and you shall follow him to get your salvation.
I could not find a Christian saying the truth about Arious, Arious was following Jesus teaching but Athanasius supported paganism tradition which Roman empire believes at that time and he came up with that concept (trinity). He goes against Jesus teaching but Arious was the strong stone in front of this paganism idea, that why they started fighting him and killing everyone following him unless they accepted the trinity. Guess what, million of early Christians followed Arious and they fight with him against Athanasius and his new believe.
Remember, the history allwys wrote by the victoryer. I am asking what if Arious was teaching the right things?
Before you leave this world make sure to follow the right message that will make you among the winners in the day of judgment. Don't move forward as blind man.
What God is saying in the Qur'an?
26:192 - 197, Qur'an
[So] indeed, [the Qur'an] is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds. The Trustworthy Spirit has brought [the Qur'an] down upon your heart, [O Muhammad] - so that you may be among the warners in a clear Arabic language. And indeed, it is [mentioned] in the Scriptures of former [peoples]. And has it not been a sign to them that it is recognized by the scholars of the Children of Israel?
12:111, Qur'an
[For] there was certainly a lesson in their stories for those of understanding. [The Qur'an] is not an invented narration, but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe.
13:43, Qur'an
[But] those who have disbelieved say, "You are not a messenger." Say, "God is sufficient as Witness between me and you, and whoever has knowledge of the Scripture -
16:102, Qur'an
[For] the Holy Spirit has brought [the Qur'an] down from your Lord in truth to make those who believe firm and as guidance and good news to those in submission [to God]."
42:52 - 53, Qur'an
And thus We have revealed a [Holy] Spirit to you, [O Muhammad], by Our command. You did not know what the Scripture is or [what] faith [is], but We have made it a light by which We guide whom We will of Our servants. And indeed, you guide to a straight path - the path of God, to whom [belongs] whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Unquestionably, [all] matters return to God.
5:19, Qur'an
[So] O People of the Scripture, Our messenger has come to you to make [the religion] clear to you after a period [of suspension] of messengers, unless you should say, "No bringer of good news or warner came to us." But a bringer of good news and a warner has come to you. And God is Powerful over all things.
3:193, Qur'an
[So say,] "Our Lord, indeed we have heard a Caller [Comforter] calling to faith, [saying], 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed. Our Lord, so forgive our sins and remove our misdeeds from us and let us die with the righteous."
@@engmashil That was a long tea break! I could site verses oo but what's the point.