In 1981 two roommates and I walked into the Church Administration Building and I boldly went up to the attendant and asked if we could meet President Kimball, much to my roommates' embarrassment. He called Bro. Haycock who told him the president wasn't seeing anyone right now. Undaunted, I asked if we could see President Romney, to the utter horror of my roommates who had turned to leave. The attendant made another phone call and then stood up and told us to follow him. My roommates were glaring at me, but I was all smiles as we were lead back to the reception area for the First Presidency. Pres. Romney's secretary came out and got our names and soon he came out to greet us. But evidently, President Kimball had heard his assistant on the phone and decided just then that he wanted to get a little exercise. As we were talking with President Romney in the reception area, Brother Haycock and President Kimball came thru. Bro. Haycock tried in vain to keep the Prophet moving as he patted his assistant's hand and came straight over to me and gave me a hug and a kiss on the right cheek. He asked how I was and I replied, "F-f-fine, now." I was 21 years old and had been a member of the Church for four years. I adored Spencer W. Kimball! How I wish I could now reclaim the innocence I had back then. My conversion had been purely spiritual, I hadn't even finished reading the Book of Mormon when I was baptized! Now, it's not just the doctrinal inconsistencies, it's the socio-cultural atmosphere in the Church that is driving me out after 40 years. How I miss President Kimball. 😥
I remember a guy who was contemplating a mission call. He went to the building and asked to speak with a seventy. He was escorted to an office and met with an apostle. That day there were few assignments, so most GAs were in the building. He then met with the three members of the first presidency including Kimball. He served a mission, married and is still active. I think those days are gone. Meeting an apostle or member of the first presidency are long gone.
"I think certainty is a burden." Spoken like a true attorney. Edward Kimball's comment about choosing to believe because of the ramifications of not believing are so dire that it would be wise to err on the side of believing. Ultimately even if it was all made up the standards, teachings and practices of Mormonism are an excellent way to live and achieve happiness--for most.
I found the interview to be extremely interesting and thought provoking; as a convert, I find myself challenging the notion of the "True Church", however I was very impressed by Edward Kimball
+motivation to win Continue to challenge the notion of the LDS being God's true church. It certainly is not. Let's look into it and see. Jesus promised: Upon this rock I will build My church (Matthew 16:18). The rock here is Jesus Christ NOT Revelation as the Mormons believe. He promised to build His church! He died for His church (Acts 20:28; Ephesians 5:25). Nowhere does the Bible say Jesus built a denomination! Nor does the Bible teach Jesus died for any church established by man! He died for only one church, the one He bought with His own blood. The church is the body of Christ (Ephesians 1:22-23). There is one body (Ephesians 4:4). Therefore, there is but one church! Jesus is the Saviour of His body (Ephesians 5:25). If we want to be saved, we must be in His body. We cannot be saved in a man-made church! The Corporation of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saint is a man made church big time. It is a corporation and big business. It is not and never was God’s true church. The Body of Christ, as the church of God, is an organism (a living thing) like the human body (Eph. 1:22-23). The difference between an organism and an organization is life. No earthly organization is the one true church. The true church is not an earthly organization. It is not a series of buildings and ceremonies rooted in ancient tradition. Instead, the church is the body of true believers. The true church consists of those who are regenerate, that is, it consists of those who are "the called," the true Christians. • Rom. 1:6, "among whom you also are the called (klaytos) of Jesus Christ." • 1 Cor. 1:24, "but to those who are the called (klaytos), both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." • Jude 1, "Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to those who are the called (klaytos), beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ." • Rev. 17:14, "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called (klaytos) and chosen (eklektos) and faithful." The Greek word "klaytos" means "call, invited, divinely selected and appointed. The Greek word of "church" is ekklesia and is formed from a compound of the word, "ek," (out of) and "kaleo" (call). Therefore, the church is the "called out ones." "Eklektos" in Rev. 17:14 above means simply means "chosen" and comes from the verb, "eklegomai," which means to choose, to choose out. Therefore, the church, the ekkesia, is the "called out ones." No one can join the one true Church, God has to call you and put you inside (John 6:44). Till He opens the door no man on earth can open it - neither popes, nor prophets, nor bishops, nor priests, nor elders, nor synods. All members of this one true Church have the same marks. They are all born again of the Spirit; they all possess “repentance towards God, faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ,” and holiness of life and conversation. They are led by one Spirit; they all build upon one foundation; they all draw their religion from one single book - that is the holy Bible. They are all joined to one centre - that is Jesus Christ. Once enrolled in the lists of this Church, sinners are safe for eternity; they are never cast away. The reason the cults are not Christian is that they deny the essential doctrines of Christianity. As a case in point, Mormonism denies among other things, that there is only one God in all existence, and it denies that salvation is by grace through faith. Therefore, it is not Christian. The one true church is the cross-section of believers in all churches that adhere to the essential doctrines of Christianity. Peace!!
What a thoughtful intelligent man. I would love to sit down with him and discuss more intangible thoughts and ideas. If only every believer were more like minded. He seems accepting and understanding of those who conclude in opposing views. If every leader could listen and contemplate like him I’d think the church would have a much healthier population especially with those who doubt and find truth elsewhere. He won’t say “I know”. This is the sign of a real thinker. And states many are better off not believing. Amazing man. And he’s is right here. People don’t choose their birthplace or upbringing/community or religion in most cases. We choose very little if anything. Free Will is the biggest delusion of them all. And of course he thinks his perspective is correct. Everyone does. Or they’d change it! So everyone thinks their church and beliefs are superior to other beliefs because otherwise they’d be over there. Again, free will? Or upbringing and things out of your control? You can say “I choose”, but do you? Don’t think so. And he had a brother Spencer that left because of facts he didn’t choose to value. He just did value them. His leaving cause great trauma to him and his family. They believe they will not be together ever again (it’s the truth) in an eternal afterlife of joy (not the truth). Imagine thinking you have someone you love dearly, a child, doomed to hell and will not be apart of your eternal world. The psychological destruction and torment is real that’s for sure. Fear is a controlling emotion. Wouldn’t it be better to think all paths lead to god and his final judgement? And there’s no one path to eternal glory? Seems much healthier to me. Edward states multiple times that he’d like it (referring to something he heard about his father or some other preferable belief...etc) to be true because it suits his wants. Like about his fathers book and hearing that he wished it would have been softer. Everyone wants information and facts to support their biases. This is confirmation bias. Everyone uses this to concrete their viewpoints. But again what a special man. Anyone would be lucky to have him in their lives. Much love❤️ Final thought: All churches have levels of guilt and torture, but this one is near or at the top. So I guess it does win at something.
An interesting interview. Mr. Kimball seems to be totally comfortable with his life and his rationalization of Mormon doctrine. As he indicated, his religious beliefs suit him and therefore he has not felt the need to change. I take him to be a thoughtful old gent and he projects considerable charm in a down home sort or way. I liked him.
John, thanks for the interview and I appreciate you getting people to open up and share with the general public personal things. I tried to post on your most recent Mormon Stories Podcast and was able both on TH-cam and on your site. Keep up the interesting interviews.
The only time I had interaction with Edward's father was when I was on a plane to Salt Lake. This was in 1966. He came down the aisle from first class and noticed I was reading the scriptures. He asked, "Where are you going"? And I said, "To Salt Lake", and he said, "No, I mean on your mission". I said, "To Ireland". He must of realized that I didn't recognize him as an Apostle and he didn't identify himself. But he chuckled then. I look back at it with fond memories and chuckle now. ;-)
I find the Book of Mormon inspirational but allegorical. I agree with Edward Kimball that many people may actually fit better in another church or belief system. For many years I tried to force myself to make Mormonism fit, but it simply never did. I am now seriously investigating the Catholic church. I don't know where it will end up, but I am still a strong Christian regardless.
I'm happy for you! I will probably choose between Eastern Orthodox and Catholic for my church. I have heard that Joseph got the idea of men becoming gods from Catholics who came to Nauvoo. He read some of their literature about Deification (Theosis) and then distorted it in bringing the idea into Mormonism.
What about the book "Miracle of Forgiveness" At a time when I was struggling to do better I read that book and it made me feel as if there is no hope at ever being able to overcome and become a better person when everything you think do feel is wrong. It took away all my hope.
I like his comment on the burden of certainty. At age 60 i know much more than 30 years ago - but have more questions than ever. What does certainty really mean? I know what it might mean at age 12 or 19 - but age 60 i can see that believing can be as powerful as knowing- i can go forward without a perfect certainty.
Miracle of Forgiveness is a horrible book if you are Gay. Said I was an abomination for being gay. Read this at 14 years old. Messed me up my life forever.
If you want to know how the revelation on the Priesthood was received google "Bruce R McConkie Revelation on Priesthood." Elder McConkie was present and gives an excellent description.
John, I know this video is 10 years ago but I was a bit surprised that even though you covered civil rights and equal rights for women no mention was made of Spencer Kimball's role in "counseling" young Gay men. In the early 1970s he was the point man in the Church in dealing with the offense of men loving men. This resulted in untold damage to the psychological well being of so many young men and probably contributed to many suicides. I met with him twice, once at his office and once at his home. He was kindly and sincere and dangerously naive. I survived but many did not. He insisted in knowing the names of any other men I had relationships with so that he could contact them and pressure them for meetings. Full repentance could not take place unless you were willing to turn in others. His office in the Church Office Building was lined with file cabinets full of reports on individual Gay men. I was pressured to write a letter to him expressing my revulsion toward homosexuality and affirming my desire to change my ways. Absurd. Eventually I got out of there and out of BYU and out of the Church. His record and the Church's on Gays is what is shameful not the natural sexual orientation one is born with.
Since Brigham Young instituted the Priesthood ban on his own without a direct revelation, I do not view the lifting of the Priesthood ban as a revelation, rather it was correcting a wrong that should have been corrected many, many, many years ago. God would not have to reverse something that was never real in the first place.
why did it take a century to correct it? Why did mormons all that time, including prophets, believe it was a revelation? Why did it take the threat of losing their tax exempt status to fix it?
At 1:51. Good discussion of the Priesthood Ban end in 1978. There are various explanations why it took until 1978. The problem in my opinion was the policy was just that. However the decree by Brigham Young on the ban in 1856 was seen by many leaders and members as revelation. Revelations are rarely reversed. I remember one hesitation was how would this affect temple work. I knew a person serving at the Washington temple who told me the first time a black hand went through the veil (as a veil worker) there were white people on the other side reeling back in horror. Part of this was old prejudice from society. But there other temple patrons who saw this as somehow blasphemous since it reversed a so-called revelation. Either way things changed and more blacks were called as temple workers.
Before change can come there must be "unanimity" between the apostles. I thought that God was leading this Church not convenient consensus. You cannot excuse Mormonism based upon human fallibility without divorcing the will of God from the picture.
It is so odd for people like me to entertain the notion that God actually has a body and had actual sex with Mary to conceive Jesus. I am a traditional Protestant. It does seem like a God gas been brought down to the human level too much to believe thus doctrine. Historically the Church had various doctrines about Christ including the idea that He was appointed to be Messiah after proving Himself, and after having a natural birth into this world. The Church historically never taught that God was a man. In fact the a Old Testament states that God us not a man and He has no hands, feet, etc. the idea that God is a man totally breaks with Judaism, our historical roots. Also, to believe that the Church that Christ established had a fall and needed to be restored after several hundreds of years is to deny that what Jesus said is true. He said He built His church and the gates of Hell would not prevail against it. The Church never failed. It needed no restoration.Anyway, I listen a lot to these stories because I admire LDS who are set free from this false organization. At the same time I have my own doubts about Christianity including especially the form in which I was raised. So I may be in my own type of freeing process. I think about how brave you ex Mormans are. It is very difficult to get out of the religion you were raised in!
It's called the old "flip-flop." You can find the old flip-flop in not only race . . . but polygamy, sexuality generally, Adam-God teaching, blood-atonement teaching, ordinances for children of LGBTQ couples, relationship with and value of the United Nations, penalties associated with temple ordinances, marriages for time only in the temple, affiliation with the Boy Scouts, name of the Church, etc., etc., etc. etc. Some might say that the old flip-flop constitutes blasphemy, because it's basically alluding to the idea that God is arbitrary, capricious, moody, indecisive, and even flaky. Saying that "latter-day prophets" have the inside track on what God is currently thinking (and that's why we need them) is saying that God is unstable and irrational. This runs counter to all traditional Christian theology, and even "Mormon" scriptures such as Moroni 8:18
He states women are equal to men in the church. Women are not equal to men in the church. Women's salvation goes through the men. They can never be equal with that! You can not be equal with only a male perspective leading being leaders of the church. Men have a hard time seeing that. I can appreciate that woman can be loved by men in the church but equal not quite. There is a difference. I do think in at least the later prophets of the church have been loving kind men but even so they only see things from their own viewpoint and a woman see and experiences things much different and you can't have equality if both leadership viewpoints and qualities are not present. It can be said relief society is the voice of women but not true it still goes through the men in the church. They are the head.
@1stcorinthians1vrs18 Years before Heart of the Matter Shawn brought up these same points at the Sunstone conference. It is pride that has blinded lds scholars and members to see that Jesus is the Almighty.
Jesus Christ declared that He is the way, the truth, and the life. Eternity is all about Christ and Christ alone. John 3:18,36. There is only one Savior, and He is the only God Isaiah 43:10,11 44:6-8,24 John 1:1-3,14 Philippians 2:5-11.
@azapachekid More sadly, you do not understand the passages I quote, because you have put your trust in men rather than God and His Word Jeremiah 17:5. New revelation about God, would not contradict the known revelation of God, as Mormonism always does. Jesus is the truth John 14:6. God is not a man Numbers 23:19. God created all things by Himself Isaiah 44:24. The Bible declares there is only 1 God First John 5:7 John 1:1-3,14 Philippians 2:5-12 Isaiah 43:10,11 44:6-8 Hebrews 1:8-12 etc.
THIS VIDEOS OF MORMON STORIES ARE MORE WITH COMMERCIAL PURPOSE, BECAUSE EDITORS ARE PAID BY GOOGLE FROM LOOKING PEOPLE . THAT WHY ARE A LOT OF LIARS AND FRUSTRATIONS OF THEM
I enjoyed this podcast because I love President Spencer W. Kimball and his legacy! His son is someone who I am sure makes his father pride.
thank you kimball. You remind me of my father. This helps me understand him more. You are gentle, gracious and very intelligent.
I will admit that I really enjoyed listening to this podcast. Edward Kimball is a truly nice person.
S R Reiley He truly is, thank you for saying so! He is my grandpa, but unfortunately he passed away tonight!
I am very sorry to hear that. Please accept my condolences.
In 1981 two roommates and I walked into the Church Administration Building and I boldly went up to the attendant and asked if we could meet President Kimball, much to my roommates' embarrassment. He called Bro. Haycock who told him the president wasn't seeing anyone right now. Undaunted, I asked if we could see President Romney, to the utter horror of my roommates who had turned to leave. The attendant made another phone call and then stood up and told us to follow him. My roommates were glaring at me, but I was all smiles as we were lead back to the reception area for the First Presidency. Pres. Romney's secretary came out and got our names and soon he came out to greet us. But evidently, President Kimball had heard his assistant on the phone and decided just then that he wanted to get a little exercise. As we were talking with President Romney in the reception area, Brother Haycock and President Kimball came thru. Bro. Haycock tried in vain to keep the Prophet moving as he patted his assistant's hand and came straight over to me and gave me a hug and a kiss on the right cheek. He asked how I was and I replied, "F-f-fine, now." I was 21 years old and had been a member of the Church for four years. I adored Spencer W. Kimball! How I wish I could now reclaim the innocence I had back then. My conversion had been purely spiritual, I hadn't even finished reading the Book of Mormon when I was baptized! Now, it's not just the doctrinal inconsistencies, it's the socio-cultural atmosphere in the Church that is driving me out after 40 years. How I miss President Kimball. 😥
Thanks for sharing that beautiful story.
I remember a guy who was contemplating a mission call. He went to the building and asked to speak with a seventy. He was escorted to an office and met with an apostle. That day there were few assignments, so most GAs were in the building. He then met with the three members of the first presidency including Kimball. He served a mission, married and is still active. I think those days are gone. Meeting an apostle or member of the first presidency are long gone.
"I think certainty is a burden." Spoken like a true attorney. Edward Kimball's comment about choosing to believe because of the ramifications of not believing are so dire that it would be wise to err on the side of believing. Ultimately even if it was all made up the standards, teachings and practices of Mormonism are an excellent way to live and achieve happiness--for most.
I love this video series, what a great man. He has such a pleasant manner, very thoughtful and insightful.
I found the interview to be extremely interesting and thought provoking; as a convert, I find myself challenging the notion of the "True Church", however I was very impressed by Edward Kimball
+motivation to win Continue to challenge the notion of the LDS being God's true church. It certainly is not. Let's look into it and see.
Jesus promised: Upon this rock I will build My church (Matthew 16:18). The rock here is Jesus Christ NOT Revelation as the Mormons believe. He promised to build His church! He died for His church (Acts 20:28; Ephesians 5:25). Nowhere does the Bible say Jesus built a denomination! Nor does the Bible teach Jesus died for any church established by man! He died for only one church, the one He bought with His own blood.
The church is the body of Christ (Ephesians 1:22-23). There is one body (Ephesians 4:4). Therefore, there is but one church! Jesus is the Saviour of His body (Ephesians 5:25). If we want to be saved, we must be in His body. We cannot be saved in a man-made church! The Corporation of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saint is a man made church big time. It is a corporation and big business. It is not and never was God’s true church.
The Body of Christ, as the church of God, is an organism (a living thing) like the human body (Eph. 1:22-23). The difference between an organism and an organization is life.
No earthly organization is the one true church. The true church is not an earthly organization. It is not a series of buildings and ceremonies rooted in ancient tradition. Instead, the church is the body of true believers. The true church consists of those who are regenerate, that is, it consists of those who are "the called," the true Christians.
• Rom. 1:6, "among whom you also are the called (klaytos) of Jesus Christ."
• 1 Cor. 1:24, "but to those who are the called (klaytos), both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."
• Jude 1, "Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to those who are the called (klaytos), beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ."
• Rev. 17:14, "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called (klaytos) and chosen (eklektos) and faithful."
The Greek word "klaytos" means "call, invited, divinely selected and appointed. The Greek word of "church" is ekklesia and is formed from a compound of the word, "ek," (out of) and "kaleo" (call). Therefore, the church is the "called out ones." "Eklektos" in Rev. 17:14 above means simply means "chosen" and comes from the verb, "eklegomai," which means to choose, to choose out. Therefore, the church, the ekkesia, is the "called out ones."
No one can join the one true Church, God has to call you and put you inside (John 6:44). Till He opens the door no man on earth can open it - neither popes, nor prophets, nor bishops, nor priests, nor elders, nor synods. All members of this one true Church have the same marks. They are all born again of the Spirit; they all possess “repentance towards God, faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ,” and holiness of life and conversation. They are led by one Spirit; they all build upon one foundation; they all draw their religion from one single book - that is the holy Bible. They are all joined to one centre - that is Jesus Christ. Once enrolled in the lists of this Church, sinners are safe for eternity; they are never cast away.
The reason the cults are not Christian is that they deny the essential doctrines of Christianity. As a case in point, Mormonism denies among other things, that there is only one God in all existence, and it denies that salvation is by grace through faith. Therefore, it is not Christian.
The one true church is the cross-section of believers in all churches that adhere to the essential doctrines of Christianity. Peace!!
Ambiguity is a pleasure to me is what he said. Said another way I would rather be willfully ignorant than investigate and understand truth.
It would be great if all Mormons (and people in general) were as open minded as this guy
I love Spencer W. Kimball. A giant man of God!
What a thoughtful intelligent man. I would love to sit down with him and discuss more intangible thoughts and ideas. If only every believer were more like minded. He seems accepting and understanding of those who conclude in opposing views. If every leader could listen and contemplate like him I’d think the church would have a much healthier population especially with those who doubt and find truth elsewhere.
He won’t say “I know”. This is the sign of a real thinker. And states many are better off not believing. Amazing man. And he’s is right here. People don’t choose their birthplace or upbringing/community or religion in most cases. We choose very little if anything. Free Will is the biggest delusion of them all.
And of course he thinks his perspective is correct. Everyone does. Or they’d change it! So everyone thinks their church and beliefs are superior to other beliefs because otherwise they’d be over there. Again, free will? Or upbringing and things out of your control? You can say “I choose”, but do you? Don’t think so.
And he had a brother Spencer that left because of facts he didn’t choose to value. He just did value them. His leaving cause great trauma to him and his family. They believe they will not be together ever again (it’s the truth) in an eternal afterlife of joy (not the truth). Imagine thinking you have someone you love dearly, a child, doomed to hell and will not be apart of your eternal world. The psychological destruction and torment is real that’s for sure. Fear is a controlling emotion. Wouldn’t it be better to think all paths lead to god and his final judgement? And there’s no one path to eternal glory? Seems much healthier to me.
Edward states multiple times that he’d like it (referring to something he heard about his father or some other preferable belief...etc) to be true because it suits his wants. Like about his fathers book and hearing that he wished it would have been softer. Everyone wants information and facts to support their biases. This is confirmation bias. Everyone uses this to concrete their viewpoints.
But again what a special man. Anyone would be lucky to have him in their lives. Much love❤️
Final thought:
All churches have levels of guilt and torture, but this one is near or at the top. So I guess it does win at something.
Good questions, respectfully asked and sincerely answered, with candour and the grace of wisdom that comes with age and life experience.
An interesting interview. Mr. Kimball seems to be totally comfortable with his life and his rationalization of Mormon doctrine. As he indicated, his religious beliefs suit him
and therefore he has not felt the need to change. I take him to be a thoughtful old gent and he projects considerable charm in a down home sort or way. I liked him.
John, thanks for the interview and I appreciate you getting people to open up and share with the general public personal things. I tried to post on your most recent Mormon Stories Podcast and was able both on TH-cam and on your site. Keep up the interesting interviews.
Very interesting, I was surprised when he said that he had never met Hinckley.
The only time I had interaction with Edward's father was when I was on a plane to Salt Lake. This was in 1966. He came down the aisle from first class and noticed I was reading the scriptures. He asked, "Where are you going"? And I said, "To Salt Lake", and he said, "No, I mean on your mission". I said, "To Ireland". He must of realized that I didn't recognize him as an Apostle and he didn't identify himself. But he chuckled then. I look back at it with fond memories and chuckle now. ;-)
I like him....I really like him. Thank you for sharing.
I find the Book of Mormon inspirational but allegorical. I agree with Edward Kimball that many people may actually fit better in another church or belief system. For many years I tried to force myself to make Mormonism fit, but it simply never did. I am now seriously investigating the Catholic church. I don't know where it will end up, but I am still a strong Christian regardless.
I'm happy for you! I will probably choose between Eastern Orthodox and Catholic for my church. I have heard that Joseph got the idea of men becoming gods from Catholics who came to Nauvoo. He read some of their literature about Deification (Theosis) and then distorted it in bringing the idea into Mormonism.
Sara K catholic are the same restoration of paganism.
What about the book "Miracle of Forgiveness" At a time when I was struggling to do better I read that book and it made me feel as if there is no hope at ever being able to overcome and become a better person when everything you think do feel is wrong. It took away all my hope.
A thoughtful man
I like his comment on the burden of certainty. At age 60 i know much more than 30 years ago - but have more questions than ever. What does certainty really mean? I know what it might mean at age 12 or 19 - but age 60 i can see that believing can be as powerful as knowing- i can go forward without a perfect certainty.
Miracle of Forgiveness is a horrible book if you are Gay. Said I was an abomination for being gay. Read this at 14 years old. Messed me up my life forever.
The Bible is also "a horrible book if you are Gay". The truth is horrible if you are Gay.
Agree. I read it at the same age. And I am glad to hear in the interview that President Kimball wishes that he had made the book softer.
Hold on, I read the Miracle of Forgiveness and enjoyed the book very much, it struck a excellent balance between justice and forgiveness.
If you want to know how the revelation on the Priesthood was received google "Bruce R McConkie Revelation on Priesthood." Elder McConkie was present and gives an excellent description.
Yeah, like "the Lord" changed his mind from A to Z in every way. Uh huh. You betcha.
His bow tie is cool.
John, I know this video is 10 years ago but I was a bit surprised that even though you covered civil rights and equal rights for women no mention was made of Spencer Kimball's role in "counseling" young Gay men. In the early 1970s he was the point man in the Church in dealing with the offense of men loving men. This resulted in untold damage to the psychological well being of so many young men and probably contributed to many suicides. I met with him twice, once at his office and once at his home. He was kindly and sincere and dangerously naive. I survived but many did not. He insisted in knowing the names of any other men I had relationships with so that he could contact them and pressure them for meetings. Full repentance could not take place unless you were willing to turn in others. His office in the Church Office Building was lined with file cabinets full of reports on individual Gay men. I was pressured to write a letter to him expressing my revulsion toward homosexuality and affirming my desire to change my ways. Absurd. Eventually I got out of there and out of BYU and out of the Church. His record and the Church's on Gays is what is shameful not the natural sexual orientation one is born with.
Since Brigham Young instituted the Priesthood ban on his own without a direct revelation, I do not view the lifting of the Priesthood ban as a revelation, rather it was correcting a wrong that should have been corrected many, many, many years ago. God would not have to reverse something that was never real in the first place.
why did it take a century to correct it? Why did mormons all that time, including prophets, believe it was a revelation? Why did it take the threat of losing their tax exempt status to fix it?
At 1:51. Good discussion of the Priesthood Ban end in 1978. There are various explanations why it took until 1978. The problem in my opinion was the policy was just that. However the decree by Brigham Young on the ban in 1856 was seen by many leaders and members as revelation. Revelations are rarely reversed. I remember one hesitation was how would this affect temple work. I knew a person serving at the Washington temple who told me the first time a black hand went through the veil (as a veil worker) there were white people on the other side reeling back in horror. Part of this was old prejudice from society. But there other temple patrons who saw this as somehow blasphemous since it reversed a so-called revelation. Either way things changed and more blacks were called as temple workers.
Before change can come there must be "unanimity" between the apostles. I thought that God was leading this Church not convenient consensus. You cannot excuse Mormonism based upon human fallibility without divorcing the will of God from the picture.
It is so odd for people like me to entertain the notion that God actually has a body and had actual sex with Mary to conceive Jesus. I am a traditional Protestant. It does seem like a God gas been brought down to the human level too much to believe thus doctrine. Historically the Church had various doctrines about Christ including the idea that He was appointed to be Messiah after proving Himself, and after having a natural birth into this world. The Church historically never taught that God was a man. In fact the a Old Testament states that God us not a man and He has no hands, feet, etc. the idea that God is a man totally breaks with Judaism, our historical roots. Also, to believe that the Church that Christ established had a fall and needed to be restored after several hundreds of years is to deny that what Jesus said is true. He said He built His church and the gates of Hell would not prevail against it. The Church never failed. It needed no restoration.Anyway, I listen a lot to these stories because I admire LDS who are set free from this false organization. At the same time I have my own doubts about Christianity including especially the form in which I was raised. So I may be in my own type of freeing process. I think about how brave you ex Mormans are. It is very difficult to get out of the religion you were raised in!
It's called the old "flip-flop." You can find the old flip-flop in not only race . . . but polygamy, sexuality generally, Adam-God teaching, blood-atonement teaching, ordinances for children of LGBTQ couples, relationship with and value of the United Nations, penalties associated with temple ordinances, marriages for time only in the temple, affiliation with the Boy Scouts, name of the Church, etc., etc., etc. etc. Some might say that the old flip-flop constitutes blasphemy, because it's basically alluding to the idea that God is arbitrary, capricious, moody, indecisive, and even flaky. Saying that "latter-day prophets" have the inside track on what God is currently thinking (and that's why we need them) is saying that God is unstable and irrational. This runs counter to all traditional Christian theology, and even "Mormon" scriptures such as Moroni 8:18
Americans would prefer to spend money on drink smoke travel. Let's pay 2% of Ld's church donations.
He states women are equal to men in the church.
Women are not equal to men in the church. Women's salvation goes through the men. They can never be equal with that!
You can not be equal with only a male perspective leading being leaders of the church.
Men have a hard time seeing that.
I can appreciate that woman can be loved by men in the church but equal not quite. There is a difference.
I do think in at least the later prophets of the church have been loving kind men but even so they only see things from their own viewpoint and a woman see and experiences things much different and you can't have equality if both leadership viewpoints and qualities are not present.
It can be said relief society is the voice of women but not true it still goes through the men in the church. They are the head.
@1stcorinthians1vrs18 Years before Heart of the Matter Shawn brought up these same points at the Sunstone conference. It is pride that has blinded lds scholars and members to see that Jesus is the Almighty.
why he did not mention dimons in mormonism.
One question that this video doesn't address the question as to whether Mr. Kimball reamains a believing Muslim.
Jesus Christ declared that He is the way, the truth, and the life. Eternity is all about Christ and Christ alone. John 3:18,36. There is only one Savior, and He is the only God Isaiah 43:10,11 44:6-8,24 John 1:1-3,14 Philippians 2:5-11.
@azapachekid More sadly, you do not understand the passages I quote, because you have put your trust in men rather than God and His Word Jeremiah 17:5. New revelation about God, would not contradict the known revelation of God, as Mormonism always does. Jesus is the truth John 14:6. God is not a man Numbers 23:19. God created all things by Himself Isaiah 44:24. The Bible declares there is only 1 God First John 5:7 John 1:1-3,14 Philippians 2:5-12 Isaiah 43:10,11 44:6-8 Hebrews 1:8-12 etc.
THIS VIDEOS OF MORMON STORIES ARE MORE WITH COMMERCIAL PURPOSE, BECAUSE EDITORS ARE PAID BY GOOGLE FROM LOOKING PEOPLE . THAT WHY ARE A LOT OF LIARS AND FRUSTRATIONS OF THEM
I like him....I really like him. Thank you for sharing.
I like him....I really like him. Thank you for sharing.
I like him....I really like him. Thank you for sharing.