Hojo infused the mother of/and his child with parasitic space cells that seemingly perma-banned them from the Lifestream(?), uploaded a digital copy of himself into a dead "perfect being" for reasons that I no longer remember while slowly turning his actual body into FF7's version of a Tyrant...and that's the stuff he ACTUALLY PULLED OFF. Everyone remembers how he tried (and failed via timely intervention) to breed Aerith and Red XIII, all while claiming that he was "lending a helping hand to an endangered species". No, trying to make logical sense of a narrative spanning real-time decades and possibly several continuities in-series still sounds far more sane than anything Hojo does.
I find it funny how back when Max played Dirge, at around 9 hours and 40 minutes into it, he said something along the lines of "We need to go back in time and make it so this game never happened". Funny how that went huh
@@TsunTsunTan Yes, and that's awful. Reviving characters is the cheapest marketing tactic ever. Aeriths death and Zacks ghost MADE FF7. Especially Aeris's death. Now if they go, ",equivalent exchange others in the new timeline will die for balance," and they kill Cloud or some shit, they may win me over. I didn't like remake, to the people who do, good. Enjoy what you will. I will play the "new" story and give it a chance, but I just can't deal with the Nomura dumb shit and fan pandering. Look at FF character popularity polls. Zack is the most popular character in FF history. But my prediction is cliche and will probably happen. Two sephiroths vs cloud and Zack, with some deaths that are expendable that lived for those reasons. (Like avalanche members.)
At the start of FF7 Remake, Aerith senses Sephiroth and flees the alley, eventually being attacked by the the plot ghosts. At the end of CC Reunion, Aerith doesn't sense anyone and the story goes as the original FF7.
I wasn't under the impression she sensed Sephiroth in the alley, I thought she just heard a noise and got paranoid she's being watched (which she is, by Shinra). You reading into this too much or did I miss something?
@Sinteleon something I've always wondered. In crisis core,Zack was in gongaga where Zack parents are.why didn't he go visit them?they were constantly writing him,you'd think he'd stop by to me them know hes okay
I remember him saying that he needs to go full Doc brown and make a diagram, I think it was in one of the "Easy Allies" streams. Now the madlad's finally done it.
I’m a simple man, I see Max has a new video about FF7, I immediately watch. Also I’m 100% serious about this, if Square Enix ever makes their own official documentary film or series about FF7 they should have Max not just be in it but also help make it.
Instead of [Spoiler Alert] . . . . . . A handkerchief to dry tears at the end of Crisis Core Reunion, it's a small dry-erase board to follow all the new theories made up after the end of Rebirth.
I just started and finished both VII Remake and the original VII in the last two weeks because of the passion that comes through Max's videos on them. I would be completely okay with a hard pivot to only making content about FFVII because I could watch him talk about it forever.
@@tyrantravealpha I was already familiar with what Remake had done, setting up the story to be different etc., so most of the discovery for me was everything post-Midgar in the original. And I was suprised with how much I really liked it! I've seen it critiqued for years as having an over-abundance of minigames and it having not aged great, but neither of those things personally bothered me at all and I enjoyed just traversing the world and finding out where I'd be going next. I'm not planning on seeing Advent Children tho because I'm not super invested in the narrative, not really a story-person.
@JSSBS I'm sure u also saw,crisis core.I've always wondered. Zack was in gongaga where Zack parents are. Why didn't he go visit them? They were constantly writing him, you'd think that Zack would go visit and let them know hes okay.
@@darkknightgamer123the original FF7 is often considered the greatest JRPG and even top 5 greatest video game of all time. Its actually generally really praised for decades and across the board thats why the remake hype was unreal. so Im shocked to hear you seen it critiqued for years
Something that just dawned on me is that Hojo 100% knows something is up because the Whispers carried him away and knowing him and his data he definitely went back and looked at security cameras. Whether he saw the whispers there or not he still k owns something weird happened to him there and he, like the players, has theories.
@@mrnygren2 I think the story remains very much the same up until the very end. But before then everything lines up with OG just much more expanded upon.
@@brendaspence1824 he does and he’s concerned on why Tseng isn’t reacting to them so he just keeps his cool. I bet when he was alone he was like “Dude! WTF!?” 🤣
Dude, I can't wait too. Also regarding the Gold Saucer in Rebirth, imagine it having a machine with a minigame where the snowboarding from OG would happen. The machine would capture Cloud's face, Aerith's, Barret's, Yuffie's and Tifa's, and the graphics of the game would be very close to the OG models. This part of the game you could play against them, or try a highscore single player. Maybe even some of the games in the arcade like this one could allow you to use a second controller and the P2 could be anyone from the main crew, and they could have a lot of funny dialogues throughout. It has so much potential.
For me, I’d say the Whispers were trying to keep the timeline the same (this is why they only ever appear if things are happening in a different way than the original). Sephiroth isn’t using them, but they’re preventing him from altering his fate (in my opinion), so he uses Cloud and the game to destroy their alternate selves (the main Whispers you fight at the end, and I’m basing this on their description in the bestiary) and the big whisper dude so that they’re no longer there to protect the timeline. After their destruction, pretty much nothing is preventing things from happening in a different way.
Crisis Core was kind of messed up now that I think about it. We played as the bad guys, making action in a war against Wutai, hunt people who escaped from Shinra yet Zack keeps insisting he is the hero
Zack is a hero. Did he fully understand the Wutai war? No he didnt but there were times he spared Wutain soldiers. Zack was very bblind to what Shinra was thats why post Nibleheim he takes a stand against Shinra
"Hey Zack, how was work?" "Turns out my friends and coworkers are being genetically modified and turned into monsters, I'm probably gonna stick it out for awhile though."
I kinda hope Zack and Clouds timelines intersect at some point. (And I feel it's a good possibility) but there can only be one buster sword. That's when Cloud gets his fusion blade.
Honestly, I’d be more surprised if Cloud doesn’t get his Fusion Blades in “Rebirth” or the third part, especially with “Remake” Zack being the FFVII universe’s equivalent of Schrödinger's cat right now (for lack of a better analogy). The main question is how are they going to adapt them into the gameplay in a way that doesn’t frustrate people used to him fighting in a specific way for several hours (aside from giving his fighting skills to Zack)? Regardless, it will most likely result in some ridiculously cool new attacks for Cloud, especially when he starts dual-wielding.
I dont think they are gonna do multiple timelines. They are gonna do some weird Steins Gate stuff, where the timeline basically resolves itself at the start. Something like Zack leaving Cloud together with the buster sword in Midgar and then leaving Midgar (maybe to find a way to save Aerith, because now he also gets visions of 'the future')
At the start of FF7 OG Aerith's eyes are open the entire time, it's only at the end of FF7 before the credits, we see the shot of her eyes closed and then open. I always wondered why there was a difference and I want to believe they always had an idea that they would use that in the future somehow for a sequel to the game.
I feel like aerith also knows about the past timeline just as sephiroth does. When she tells cloud not to fall in love with her in the dream was some hinted foreshadow. And when sephiroth tells cloud he has 7 seconds and what will he do with it. And i think it was 7 seconds from sephiroth falling down and killing aerith. I think aerith will still die. Cloud and everyone else maybe prevent the original way of how aerith dies but maybe aerith knows she has to die to save everyone, she will sacrifice herself. That’s my take and I want to know what everyone else thinks about it too.
I have a strange suspicion that all the events in OG FFVII will be wrapped up in Rebirth and NOT extended into part 3. I think part 3 will be some wholly new thing, wrapping up all the new plotlines and alt reality events, going to new places and exploring how it all came to be and how to stop Sephiroth and/or Jenova for good.
I also had this theory - Maybe Remake and Rebirth are prologue chapters to the final part that will be something entirely new. Like Sephiroth is merely going back in time to prepare and test Cloud and the others for a new threat that will reveal itself in part 3. What if part 3 is simply Final Fantasy 17...
I could absolutely see Hojo figuring out what’s going on because he is the only character in Remake besides Sephiroth who isn’t scared of, annoyed by or taken aback by the Whispers. He immediately goes “What is this fascinating phenomenon?” He’s going to figure it out. It MIGHT even be the new inciting incident that causes him to quit Shinra like he does in OG
I have a new theory. in FF7 Remake the "7 sec to the end" plays a huge part. Cloud was holding his head as if he was seeing an event that was playing out; however, we the viewer doesn't see it and in fact Sephiroth stops him and says "What lies ahead does no yet exists" meaning even Sephiroth is very very well aware of the future ahead. Which leads to my theory this isn't his first rodeo in fact he is trying to prevent something that keeps happening.
...If it turns out there's some sort of cosmic existential threat and Sephiroth is doing all the timeline shit to stop it and turns out to be the hero of the story I will very much lose my mind.
@@britpoint7022 This is my favorite possible conclusion, I hope it's this. Perhaps he's testing Cloud and the others at the end of Remake for what's to come in the future?
@@itsz3lus427seeing Cloud being a temporary problem probably at the spot he losses it in the original but this time it will be something else also even if Sephiroth does good Cloud will never willingly see it.
There's a really good video titled "the New Reunion" by a creator called Sleepzi that I recommend anyone who likes to theory craft watch. I'm almost certain the dude figured out where the whole plan of Sephiroth's is going and how memory, the lifestream, Jenova, the whispers and fate are all connected and play a part in it. It's long, though, so make some time 😅
People are sleeping on Sleepezi. He's not afraid to research the whole compilation, including Before Crisis, The kids are alright, On the way to a smile and all the Ultimanias, including ones that were never officially translated, to get the whole picture. He knows how many illigitimate children President Shinra has, who are the Restrictors of Deepground, and OG Avalanche vs. Turks war. The bombing of Kalm etc. He's literally THE guy to listen to if you want to know the full picture. Not some "Dirge is bad therefore we don't count it, Before Crisis was never released in the west so we don't count it" (not talking about Max btw). Can't wait for his future videos and Rebirth playthrough!
@@ИванВанёк-л5б I think Dirge is irrelevant in regard to the remake, as it happened after the end of Advent Children when Sephiroth was defeated, but he manipulated the Lifestream into sending him into the past. Sephiroth simply wasn't around for that. Not to mention, I get the feeling that Deepground will be resolved during the Remake. Probably during the Raid on Midgar.
@@LeonheartDelta geostigma is still present in Dirge in large quantities, Sephiroth probably still hangs out in remote parts of Lifestream, the Deepground lore and history are mostly explained in Dirge PlayOnline mode, so how can Dirge be irrelevant?
@@LeonheartDelta Dirge of Cerberus is meh, BUT there is no actual logical precedence that could logically lead to the conclusion that Sephiroth goes time traveling before Dirge of Cerberus. The only thing that’s sure is that Sephiroth goes time traveler mode after Advent Children. When is it exactly though, is unknown. It could very well be way long after the end of Dirge Cerberus. It could even be way long in the future when humanity in that planet already extinct. No one currently knows the exact time when Sephiroth finding time traveling method, outside of some FFVII Remake devs. Anyone who claims they are in the know, you can take what they said with an unedible amount of grains of salt lol
@@ИванВанёк-л5б to be fair, Geostigma continued existence on Dirge of Cerberus is not reliant to Sephiroth’s existence in the lifestream. Geostigma is the result of part of lifestream being contaminated by Jenova’s gene. It doesn’t really take Sephiroth to still be there for Geostigma to persist. Also, Dirge of Cerberus does happened not long after Advent Children, so even if Sephiroth already gone on his time travelling business, it’s within reason that Geostigma would still be there not completely cured yet from denizens of the planet. That to say, there is also no precedence to say that Sephiroth already gone time travelling during Dirge of Cerberus. Some people just mistakenly jumped to that conclusion when they heard that it’s the Sephiroth that’s after he’s getting beaten in Advent Children. Some people doesn’t realized that “after Advent Children” can still happened a thousand years after it.
I see no one talking about HOW Sephiroth is changing "fate". I'm so excited to see the method. I personally believe he's tapping into the location he fights Cloud 1v1 at (The Edge of Creation). It seems he's trying to act upon being a "God". The end of FF7Remake Sephiroth using that ability is an interesting tease, to me. It's also a very interesting follow up to the end of PS1 FF7
I always enjoy listening to Max talk about FF7. It's what drew me to his channel intially. The first video I ever saw of his was his reaction to the very first FF7 remake teaser. I was an immediate subscriber after that.
I'm getting the impression the end of FF7Remake is actually the ending of the alternate timeline Crisis Core. Since the singular event is Zack's last stand and the two results are where the timelines deviate. Sephiroth went back to when Cloud was reborn and is trying to effectively snuff him out in the cradle.
I think we're seeing two beings duking it out through the timeline. You have OG Sephiroth, the one who died in VII and came back for a hot minute in AC, who has become SUCH a goddamned problem in the Lifestream because of Jenova that he's able to go back through it to mess with time (I see Harbinger and the Time Ghosts effectively as a WEAPON). The other party trying to counter him is the OG Aerith, the one who dies in VII at the hands of Sephiroth but is still clearly fighting as of Advent Children through the Lifestream. Sephiroth has the advantage of Jenova and being able to manipulate the Jenova cells still, so he's able to cover ground. Aerith can really only effect Aerith, which is why Remake Aerith is a more on the ball about things and knows what's going on and can influence the others to a degree. Cloud starts seeing visions after he and Aerith interact (helps that he's also SOLDIER). Any way, it's my theory that by the end of this we might see the OG Aerith make an appearance in some form to give one last middle finger to Sephiroth and his inability to let go.
Red XIII also knows what's going on when he has the vision of humanity gone from the world that happened at the end of Advent Children, he also looks to Aerith and asks if it's okay to share, she nods in approval.
And here I am, with my own theory, but I think the Whispers, while a defensive mechanism of the Planet, is controlled by Jenova. Everything surrounding the Whispers is coloured purple and grey, colours associated with Jenova and Sephiroth. And we know the Planet, and the Lifestream, are always associated with green/seafoam blue-green colours. Colour theory is important! The developers don't choose these colours randomly, they signify different aspects and/or people! But that's my two cents :)
My theory is that all the Whispers are spirits from the LS that Sephiroth corrupts and uses to interfere with the surface. There is an undeniable relationship between the Whispers and Sephiroth/Jenova. They wear capes, they are black and purple, their design is traced to the OG Copies, they do nothing to Sephi, their song appears in Sephiroth's theme One Winged Angel……….. The great plot twist of the Remake will be that everything that R13 and Aerith told us was not true because she was being manipulated by Sephiroth through the Whispers. (Toriyama said that Whispers steal Aerith's memories)
It'd be funny if Sephiroth's downfall will be not knowing the events of *The Dirge* Sephiroth: "Thanks for the black Materia, Cloud." **sword stabs Sephiroth's back** ???: "Even if the morrow is barren of promises, nothing shall forestall my return." Sephiroth: "W-why are you..." Gackt: "Dreams of the morrow hath the shattered soul, Pride is lost, Wings stripped away, the end is nigh." *The Unknown Journey Continues In... * *Final Fantasy VII: REDEMPTION* **Credits**
The wait for Rebirth is absolutely excruciating. It’s literally hindering my day to day because all I want to do is check to see for any new news or a trailer to drop all day everyday.
It would be crazy if when you first meet Bugen, he just turns and says something like “Hello Cloud. It’s been awhile hasn’t it? Nice to finally meet you.” That would fit his character so well. Being all knowing and incredibly mysterious
Square-Enix doesn't give a fuck. They are just doing whatever the fuck to the FF series and Kingdom Hearts and fans just make shit up to try and have it makes sense.
I see a LOT of people complaining about story changes, and all I can ask myself is why??? I get wanting to replay a remade version of the OG game, but I cannot understand how some people aren't excited, considering they will be getting a game that generally follows the same original storyline with some plot twists to keep it interesting.
I'm literally editing something related to FF lmao! Max's videos about FF7 are amazing, he's extremely knowledgeable about it and the FF fanbase that he garners is amazing! I cannot wait for not only more theories but to see if he's gonna be back with the easy allies dropping bombs and spoiling the shit out of the game lmao EDIT: yes!!!!! after almost 3 years, Max finally used the white board! Such a big moment lmao
Its not clear if survivor Zack will be in his own unique timeline, or if he gets merged into the new main timeline. The Shrina mascot is the biggest hint and most confusing evidence. Its unclear if his design is different because it was different in the past, or because of a ripple effect from time shenanigans creating a new separate timeline. At the end of FF7R, before Yuffie’s mission, Zack is seen carrying Cloud. At the end of Yuffie’s mission, it is not explained where Cloud went. Why isn’t Zack still carrying Cloud? Why would they omit the detail? Zack walks into the church where people are crying. Some theorize its because something may have happened to Aerith in the new timeline. However, people would still be in mourning from the upper plate falling, and seeking refuge and comfort in the church. If Survivor Zack’s reappearance merges him into the new main timeline in relation to the crew defeating the spirits and leaving Midgar, Zack would now be finding out about the devastation of the plate falling. Its probably purposefully unclear, so its a 50-50 on whatever theory you feel the mascot clue hints towards.
It's a possibility. This is where the ending of Remake dialogue is very important. Where Aerith says sephiroth will say he only cares about the planet but he is the biggest danger there is. Then Sephiroth does reply with "Those who see with clouded eyes see nothing but shadows." This could mean that Aerith still has limited knowledge compared to what Sephiroth knows. It is 100% possible Sephiroth's plan is to help the planet and Aerith having other knowledge of how Sephiroth is is still viewing him negatively. Or it's also possible that Aerith knows Sephiroth is a bigger danger than Jenova herself and He's actually going to make everything much much worse. Then you can add sephiroths words to zack in crisis core. Keep in mind Crisis Core was released for a reason. He says that depending on what happens at Nibelheim he may have to leave Shinra. Also the fact that at the edge of creation, Sephiroth is talking to cloud as his pre-insanity self, based off the Japanese translation. At that moment he is also asking cloud for his help. So who knows. Cloud may be the key to utter destruction or whole salvation as he is the only other carrier of pure S cells.
@@Snowflakesonlypawssaw a weird theory about how Gaia/the Planet was being Influenced by lingering Jenova cells in the lifestream long after Advent Children in other places in the world not in Midgar where Aerith’s fountain was. This is really messed up cause she could be mimicking Minerva’s voice from the future lifestream….I wonder if that is part of the bad ending Red XIII was referring to as well. Another thing Sephiroth was stuck in limbo after Cloud died in the 500 hundred years after game segment whenever that was. I think he was actually “happy” and new much more and seemed different when there was a point to somehow go back in time however that happened. Too many Sephiroth lol.
This is getting into Kingdom Hearts levels of plot fuckery, and as someone who absolutely loves Kingdom Hearts I can say this with absolute certainty: *WE MUST stop Nomura before he pulls out another Mobile Gacha game with VITAL PLOT & LORE for the next mainline installment.*
I played FF7 Remake Intergrade last year, it was my into to this world as a person who hasn’t really liked Final Fantasy games. I’ve gone back and played the original as well as crisis core and I will say it has become one of my favorite universes period. I’m absolutely in love with it.
Okay. Bottom line. Sephiroth SOMEHOW survived his last fight with Cloud after Advent Children. His whole 'I will never be a memory' embued a 'will' formed in the lifestream that SOMEHOW expands the existence of memory, case in point, past events that had happened, spirits or souls that live on through ones memory, blah blah blah. Sephiroth being the sore loser he is, knows Cloud will always be stronger than him decides to use the lifestream to go back in time (not gonna go into HOW that works, cuz Square will handle that) and REdo all the failed attempts of bringing calamity. The end of 'Remake' pretty much derailed everything the original was known for telling us that this truly is not the Remake we were expecting but an entirely new story that will be unfolded in the next supposedly two entries. Look, I wanna be optimistic, but having something like 'time travel' involved just sounds like an excuse to cut corners on things these days. If they eliminate 'The Weapons' out of this Remake series, I'm losing hope for Nomura because his 'T.T.' complex is getting WAY out of hand.
I honestly really wanted Max explanation of the FF7 timeline and I'm glad that he did a video on it. If Sephiroth is the Darth Vader of FF7 it would be really cool if he had a Redemption arc of some kind in either the second or third game. FF7 Redemption... probably won't happen, but one can dream.
This! It could be because I've always been a Sephiroth fan boy so I may be biased, but I've never felt him as a true villian. Like no doubt unless you are blind Hojo is the true villian, and I can understand things Seph has done are bad, but after all... what would you do in his situation? As someone that suffers from mental health I can very much relate to him and I can only see him taking 2 paths. Falling into a deep depression and eventually suicide or going mad, losing himself, consumed with rage. I honestly always thought that in the end with how both Dirge and Advent were left on a cliff, that maybe they were going to make a game or movie that would have some way of bringing Seph back and fighting Genesis. I'm super excited to see what they do so forgive my rambling :). Any chance I can give my opinion of Sephiroth always makes me happy to talk about.
@@NihonNoMajin Same I always found Sephiroth character so interesting for the same reason. He's definitely not the true villian it's been Hojo pulling the strings for the entire FF7 story. I hope that the next 2 games show us at least Sephiroth's human side again as he is trying to snap out it that would be awesome to him definitely getting a redemption arc like I want see! BTW I'm a huge Sephiroth fan too so you weren't rambling at all it's interesting.
@gpocketgamer7981 for sure! They could go so many ways :). Like i can't really say for the English version, but in Japanese he talks very differently in Remake. Almost like his old self, but then again you could just look at it as him playing mind games with Cloud which he was good at in OG so. Idk I don't necessarily MIND Sephiroth be a villian, but if he is going to be a villian then make him a villian you know what I mean. Have him go all out in his fighta and give him more of a evil purpose instead of coming off as almost not giving his all. Kind of like he is ethereal if thay makes since. Idk, for me he doesn't give me villian vibes like Hojo, Kefka, The Emperor, Exdeath, and some other FF characters. Then again I suppose it really comes down to what you believe a villian is 🤔. For me a villian is someone that had no real reason or cause of why they do bad/evil things. If you give a character reasons or why they do/have done bad things (like Sephiroth, Aryden, Kuja, Vayne, Golbez, etc) does it really make them a villian or more of a anti hero?
@@NihonNoMajin Yeah I always felt that Sephiroth motivation is JENOVA who IMO manipulates him in doing those evil acts. What Sephiroth does in the OG FF7 did make a villian for lot's of fans of the series and the way he is with Cloud in Advent Children (plus other games he and Cloud were featured in). I found him to be a badass as a villian tbh and why I am fan of the character for his overall story behind it. I do agree Hojo cleary has selfish motives doesn't care about anyone or anything which makes a villian and unlikable. Kefka for sure is villian with his hunger for power and ultimately destroying part of the world killing millions in the process makes him a true villian. If they do go in a direction that Sephiroth remains a villian I wouldn't be disappointed I would like to see how they would pull it off to make more of a villian then what we are use to with him.
@gpocketgamer7981 it seems a lot of people do think JENOVA controls Sephiroth, but idk 🤷♂️ I can't remember any evidence in the game stating such and I always thought it was Sephiroth with his strong will that could manipulate Jenova cells. Just like Sephiroth has a lot of biblical interpretations down from both his and Jenova's name. Even his birth is like a birth of Jesus in a way given how J cells were injected into a fetus which the DNA was overwritten, but that may be very dark for some people to accept I guess 😂. Does explain a lot though in my humble opinion. I'm with you! It will probably be next year before we get Rebirth so I'm super excited and got money in my savings waiting on that collectors edition haha :). I'm sure 16 will hold me over until then. Plus next month got the Theatrhythm game coming out and the Pixel Remaster is suppose to drop for consoles sometime 🤔.
I feel like there's something special about Marlene as well given that she sort of found out about remake Aerith's "whatever thing she knows" when she hugged her. She's kinda receptive to the lifestream stuff as well.
If you go back and look at the plot cut scenes carefully in Remake, Aerith acts like she already knows what's gonna happen. Instances like when she first met Cloud, in the church when Reno came, in Sector 7 Slums before the plate fell, her dialogues foretells whats gonna happen.
Who knows what minor events might change, which snowball into cataclysmic ones. The problem with the Whispers is that they didn't interfere with the minor changes until there were too changes to stop the branching, and their forceful attempts while a stopgap for bit, blew up in their faces. I bet SEPHIROTH is gonna take advantage of this and subtlety shift things in his favour without anyone the wiser.
CC:R is great for people to experience the old game again. I LOVE how the FF7 team 100% have a plan for the Remake series and what they want. Here’s hoping Remake delivers because I want 10+hr of Max theorizing
BUGENHAGEN IS THE KEY! I'm calling it! The NANOSECOND we get to Cosmo Canyon, is when ALL is revealed... kinda like how that was the case in OG FF7, but ON A BIGGER SCALE!
I remember one of the conversation with Bugenhagen with red 13 is him wishing he could change fate. The word Fate is capitalized so I wonder if changing Fates idea has been around since the og they just didn't have the opportunity to do that kind of story
Speaking of Cloud getting visions of things that had happened in the original timeline because of the Whispers & other plot stuff, but not fully knowing their context, I think another character will experience something similar in “Rebirth” and the third instalment: Rufus. After his fight with Cloud, Rufus is able to see the Whispers circling Shinra tower, but Tseng can’t. I suspect Rufus is going to get visions of the original timeline and use them to try and hinder Avalanche *and Sephiroth* so he can try and escape his original fate of barely surviving the attack by Diamond WEAPON, his Turks being brutalized by Sephiroth, and Shinra being destroyed. It would certainly explain why they included a scene that lasts a couple of minutes, and right before the final battles of “Rebirth” no less, of Rufus seeing the Whispers. I’m excited to see how the timeline shenanigans unfold moving forward in the trilogy.
Wait wait wait... does that mean that in the OG game Hojo's reunion theory was actually talking about this!? About all the disparate time lines coming back together???
Remember when Sephiroth Says "I will never be a memory" In Advent Children and he was in the life stream ....yeahhh that's when this dude goes back in times and fucks everything up Creating Remake
I think its not a timeline thing but more like memories in the lifestream. Also this isn't the first time sephiroth messed with the life stream so its possible. If it is inside the life stream then that means all of this happened when every character had already passed and this could have happened after the 200 year time skip with red 13 overlooking midgar as a forest
The lifestream is a collective of all things but not from different timelines, we know this because Aeris with holy is the plot device in the original game. The copout that sort of makes sense with remake is Jessie, Biggs and Wedge were never technically killed, only implied offscreen, so they were saved with "edge of creation" wibbly wobbly timeline magic stuff, Zack cannot be dead and alive in the same timeline which is why you see the 2 timelines cross at the end, this will mean there is 2 different endings for these 2 timelines because Midgar is altered in timeline 2 and events that happened in timeline 2 may not happen in timeline 3 because Zack knows Shinra's secrets.
Finally somebody acknowledges Memories. It is more logical this is Cloud's memories Aerith wants to remake to free him from Sephiroth, creating a "memory timeline" where people like Zack survive even though they do not for real. This goes more hand in hand with FFVII Lore because Sephiroth will return through being connected to Cloud's memories and he and Aerith are connected with Cloud's soul. They never closed the door of Sephiroth's immortality.
Not that I believe I am right or wrong, or anyone for that matter, but... I don't believe in this alternate timeline thing in FF7. That was VIII theme. FF7 has always been about memories. So was Crisis Core and so was Advent Children. Everything in the Rebirth teaser is part of Cloud's distorted memories and furthermore (which he never did in OG) he appears to be creating more fictional memories. He will remember at some point about Zack helping him to Midgar and will wonder what happened to him 5 years ago? He clearly can't remember Zack dying. I think Cloud is a lot more messed up in the Remake series and they are going to use that to mess with us as the player. Nothing in that teaser ever really happened when concerning Cloud. I think a lot of Remakes surprises are like us watching it in Cloud's mind-type-thing. A bit mess up like Senua from Hellblade. As Cloud said at the end of AC to Sephiroth "Stay in my memories where you belong."
I have always been like "with how crazy FF7 getting, maybe I should google and research" but just before I finished typing my brain would go, "nahhh, just wait for max" then just wait patiently for this type of video
I think there are multiple splits in the timeline caused by Sephiroth throughout FFVIIR but repaired by the Whispers until Sephiroth tricks Cloud and Aerith into weakening the Whispers enough for Sephiroth to absorb them, and then change the outcome of Zack’s final battle. Aerith may well figure it out and she understands her death is the only way to activate Holy and defeat Jenova.
Now I am worried this is slowly turning into the type of convoluted mess I don't like from Nomura. Hope they either calm down with this or the end of the trilogy they stick the landing with no plot holes or lose threads. I would trust the plan but I've played Kingdom Hearts and have seen it before.
Its very simple. Og happened and is canon. Sephiroth from Advent Children went back in time to change things in his favor thus id Remake timeline. And Zack has his own timeline to show the consequences of Sephiroth changing events
@@clumsyturtle8544 then its not becoming convuleted mess like KH, KH only became Convoluted due to terms in kh being weird. Like hurt is a noun for some reason.
What if a version of Hojo from thousands of years in the future, who has achieved his god status from melding with Omega Weapon + Jenova's power is actually manipulating the timeline and Sephiroth is trying to stop him by going back and actually making things right? Maybe Genesis will come back at some point to. Hojo is the ultimate villain of this specific FF franchise. I cant imagine them not doing this somewhere down the road.
What I really want to know is this - If Hojo really learns that he is a part of a changing timeline from his encounter with the Whispers and stuff, what will he do? Will he continue with his plan to imprint his brain on the network to take over Deepground? I mean, he will realize this plan probably failed too, so maybe he will do something completely different? Imagine all of the routs they can now go with him... he can become a secondary villain of the whole FFVII timeline next to Sephiroth. He can kill Zack before Aerith's eyes... IMAGINE THAT. The potential is crazy.
Cissnei in CC sort of loosely implied that Zack shouldn't be sticking around in Gongaga to visit his parents because that is the first place the Turks would look for him.
I imagine them remembering Zack beeing dead, and also beeing alive, both memories... Cloud remembering getting the buster sword from Zack while he's dying, but also receiving as a gift after the fight. ...that would be crazy.
the idea of hojo eventually realizing what is going on is kind of crazy and the last thing we would need XD but after his brush with the plot ghosts, i'm sure it at least piqued his curiosity. tho i think its interesting that he couldn't see them yet Rufus could. or at least, it really did look like Rufus saw them
After seeing this video i remember what sephiroth said when cloud beat him in AC, he said, " i'll never be a memory ".. maybe we'll see what he meant by that
I love when Max makes these kinds of videos. Always gets my speculation going as well. If there is one thing Max's run through of Crisis Core: Reunion has reinforced in my mind, it is the importance of not only the whole story of Zack, but wording as well. Specifically how Jenova Project codes were uttered. Project G and Project S for Genesis and Sephiroth respectively. However, the first "Project" ever mentioned in FFVII lore is "Project C". At the time, it seemed logical. "Ah yes, the third experimental research in Jenova Project researching the two exposed to full crazy Sephiroth." Crisis Core upended this by having "Jenova Project G" and "Jenova Project S", code names based on the names of the subjects. Interesting food for thought, could there be more to the name "Project C"? One speculation by Hojo in FFVII: Remake sealed it for me though. Specifically when he contemplated what the offspring of Aerith and a "G" or "S" type soldier would be like. It got me questioning something. Specifically regarding the age difference between Cloud and Aerith. What I determined was intriguing to say the least. Aerith and Ifalna were in Shinra custody when Cloud was concieved. Now combine that with a few little tidbits we do have about Cloud's family life, and his interactions with others. For one thing, we only know about Cloud's mother (uncreativally named Claudia), and that's it. Not even a whiff of a father, extended family, nothing. He grew up in Nibelhiem, a town dependent on both the Mako reactor and Shinra research for its economy. Ie, anyone living there is likely to work for Shinra directly or indirectly. Later on in the original game, Hojo refers to Cloud as a "failed experiment", but later corrects himself in Midgar before the fight with him. Under the previous context, we could assume this had to do with the experiments Hojo did on him and Zack after the Nibelhiem incident. However, I believe that "Project C" has more significance, and it has something to do with comments made by Hollander. That Cloud had the last pure sample of S cells. Sephiroth was gone and presumed dead by the time Hojo scooped up Cloud and Zack. Where did he get the pure, undegraded cells? Particularly when Zack was already said to have degraded cells. Combined together, there is one conclusion I can draw. Project C was an attempt to combine the attributes of Jenova, then known by Hojo through Gast's research to not be an ancient, with those of a true living ancient using either Aerith's or more likely Ifalna's cells. The end result was a child named Cloud. And Aerith already knows this in Remake, but that's another theory.
So glad we still have fans that are accepting of this new vision of the ff7 universe. Mad respect for the OG ff7 its "perfect". Now we get a new story with cloud and friends
Pretty sure the nexus where Sephiroth suddenly breaks the timeline, and why Cloud is having visions of things, is when he and Cloud got teleported to Smash. It's the only random event that happens outside of the game which interferes with the characters.
Guhhhhh Square is KH-ing the FF7 story. Why does it need to be so needlessly confusing? Lets just go kill god and call it a day people. Killing god worked for past and future FF games and it was confusing enough with that.
Bro, it's super obvious that what happened was Sephiroth bought a game shark and accessed the debug room. Found a way to change the timeline, then we have Remake. Simple.
I'm still holding onto the theory that the Holy Materia essentially caused a RE-DO of the events, with Aerith able to remember events either because that's how Cetra be, or because she had already merged with the Lifestream.
![[BAEMON NEWS 7] NEW ALBUM COMING IN](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wtVeAPimOyo/mqdefault.jpg)
Welcome back to “Max explains FF7.”
The show that can make Hojo look like a sane scientist in comparison.
xD
@@Tigerhearty a "idiotn"? and you dare call his intelligence into question?
Roll the footage of Max talking about Remake chapter 2 from a private demo before it was revealed to the public.
Hojo infused the mother of/and his child with parasitic space cells that seemingly perma-banned them from the Lifestream(?), uploaded a digital copy of himself into a dead "perfect being" for reasons that I no longer remember while slowly turning his actual body into FF7's version of a Tyrant...and that's the stuff he ACTUALLY PULLED OFF.
Everyone remembers how he tried (and failed via timely intervention) to breed Aerith and Red XIII, all while claiming that he was "lending a helping hand to an endangered species".
No, trying to make logical sense of a narrative spanning real-time decades and possibly several continuities in-series still sounds far more sane than anything Hojo does.
Sephiroth died at the end of FF7. X(
I’m ready for another Max FF7 brainblast
@@kingofdragons7 They've already abandoned these games tbh
I wish it was an hour longer
Me too! Let’s go!
On God this shit is beautiful
@@CrimsonFIame good riddance to those turbonerds
I find it funny how back when Max played Dirge, at around 9 hours and 40 minutes into it, he said something along the lines of "We need to go back in time and make it so this game never happened".
Funny how that went huh
I guess? I mean we have Nero, Deepground, and Weiss in FF7 Remake, so its not like that setting went away.
@@IzraelGraves the game hasn't happened, but...Dirge had a multiplayer that took place during FF7...
So Sephiroth isn't doing this to save himself. He's actually doing this to destroy Dirge of Cerberus. Sephiroth is the hero all along.
What a legendary hero... !
Sephiroth sucks. All he does is challenge people and lose
This new timeline could save Aerith, Zack and remove Dirge of Cerberus. Let Sephiroth complete his plan lol
@@TsunTsunTan Yes, and that's awful. Reviving characters is the cheapest marketing tactic ever. Aeriths death and Zacks ghost MADE FF7. Especially Aeris's death. Now if they go, ",equivalent exchange others in the new timeline will die for balance," and they kill Cloud or some shit, they may win me over. I didn't like remake, to the people who do, good. Enjoy what you will. I will play the "new" story and give it a chance, but I just can't deal with the Nomura dumb shit and fan pandering. Look at FF character popularity polls. Zack is the most popular character in FF history. But my prediction is cliche and will probably happen. Two sephiroths vs cloud and Zack, with some deaths that are expendable that lived for those reasons. (Like avalanche members.)
@@GG256_ lol
At the start of FF7 Remake, Aerith senses Sephiroth and flees the alley, eventually being attacked by the the plot ghosts.
At the end of CC Reunion, Aerith doesn't sense anyone and the story goes as the original FF7.
Yes CC reunion scene is the same as OG FF7 (just graphical remake) while FF7R scene Aerith becomes aware of what happened in the OG events.
Ooohhhhh shit. I love space time stuff. Time travel and all that kind of stuff make for the best plot "lines".
I wasn't under the impression she sensed Sephiroth in the alley, I thought she just heard a noise and got paranoid she's being watched (which she is, by Shinra). You reading into this too much or did I miss something?
@@funkyfranx The music during that scene includes part of Sephiroth's theme exactly at that moment.
@@Mewzerohgc This is probably third line where Zack is Alive.
Man, Hojo knowing shit is actually a cruel twist they can throw in the box ngl
@@RicochetForce
Holy fuck. Hojo shares this info with Shinra.
But Hojo didn't know about the Whispers. He is surprised when they first encounter him.
@@CraftyMiscreant Hojo doesn’t share much Rufus called him out on that in OG
@@justadude7598 Yes, he doesn't know about whispers until that point... that doesn't mean he doesn't science them out soon after.
@Sinteleon something I've always wondered. In crisis core,Zack was in gongaga where Zack parents are.why didn't he go visit them?they were constantly writing him,you'd think he'd stop by to me them know hes okay
After this, I’m inclined to believe that Max is actually Bugenhagen 😂
If Square doesn't make Buganhagen look like Max, they will miss out a huge chance....
@@csillaszarnya2319 better yet, get Max to VOICE Buganhagen!
@@edwardhulse Then I'll just be extra sad when Bugenhagen dies
@@rosenrot234 "Stuffed!" - Bugenhagen probably
Yeah that theory about Bugenhagen knowing was clever.
Now this is what I needed without me knowing that I wanted it, solely bc Max turns into Doc from Back to the Future
Kinda LUL
I remember him saying that he needs to go full Doc brown and make a diagram, I think it was in one of the "Easy Allies" streams. Now the madlad's finally done it.
I’m a simple man, I see Max has a new video about FF7, I immediately watch.
Also I’m 100% serious about this, if Square Enix ever makes their own official documentary film or series about FF7 they should have Max not just be in it but also help make it.
Let him be the English narrator
He would do an amazing job with it, square knows about him. I’m sure they would reach out.
Instead of [Spoiler Alert]
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A handkerchief to dry tears at the end of Crisis Core Reunion, it's a small dry-erase board to follow all the new theories made up after the end of Rebirth.
I just started and finished both VII Remake and the original VII in the last two weeks because of the passion that comes through Max's videos on them. I would be completely okay with a hard pivot to only making content about FFVII because I could watch him talk about it forever.
So how was it playing them back to back? Did you watch advent children somewhere in the middle?
@@tyrantravealpha I was already familiar with what Remake had done, setting up the story to be different etc., so most of the discovery for me was everything post-Midgar in the original. And I was suprised with how much I really liked it! I've seen it critiqued for years as having an over-abundance of minigames and it having not aged great, but neither of those things personally bothered me at all and I enjoyed just traversing the world and finding out where I'd be going next.
I'm not planning on seeing Advent Children tho because I'm not super invested in the narrative, not really a story-person.
@JSSBS I'm sure u also saw,crisis core.I've always wondered. Zack was in gongaga where Zack parents are. Why didn't he go visit them? They were constantly writing him, you'd think that Zack would go visit and let them know hes okay.
@@darkknightgamer123the original FF7 is often considered the greatest JRPG and even top 5 greatest video game of all time.
Its actually generally really praised for decades and across the board thats why the remake hype was unreal. so Im shocked to hear you seen it critiqued for years
@@darkknightgamer123you like how the remake completely threw away all the themes that made the originals story so great?
Something that just dawned on me is that Hojo 100% knows something is up because the Whispers carried him away and knowing him and his data he definitely went back and looked at security cameras. Whether he saw the whispers there or not he still k owns something weird happened to him there and he, like the players, has theories.
Went back to this part and now fully understand why the Whispers took him away
Devs don't want to f*ck with Cloud's mind...YET ;)
Doesn’t Rufus see the whispers as well? I think he also knows something is up
I hate the whispers.
One would demand the money back based on false marketing if the game wasn't fun.
They marketed a remake but changed the story..
@@mrnygren2 I think the story remains very much the same up until the very end. But before then everything lines up with OG just much more expanded upon.
@@brendaspence1824 he does and he’s concerned on why Tseng isn’t reacting to them so he just keeps his cool. I bet when he was alone he was like “Dude! WTF!?” 🤣
I love it when Max talks about FF7 so much
Man I can’t wait to witness what the next part of the remake does for Cosmo Canyon
Dude, I can't wait too. Also regarding the Gold Saucer in Rebirth, imagine it having a machine with a minigame where the snowboarding from OG would happen. The machine would capture Cloud's face, Aerith's, Barret's, Yuffie's and Tifa's, and the graphics of the game would be very close to the OG models. This part of the game you could play against them, or try a highscore single player. Maybe even some of the games in the arcade like this one could allow you to use a second controller and the P2 could be anyone from the main crew, and they could have a lot of funny dialogues throughout. It has so much potential.
Same here
And how Bugen'friggin'hagen actually looks like, and the bonfire scene, and the~~~
*faints in excitement
an improvement to that part would be completely removing red xiii from the canon
@@MrNighNight Sounds like fun.
i thought my hype for rebirth couldnt get any bigger but max always finds a way
For me, I’d say the Whispers were trying to keep the timeline the same (this is why they only ever appear if things are happening in a different way than the original). Sephiroth isn’t using them, but they’re preventing him from altering his fate (in my opinion), so he uses Cloud and the game to destroy their alternate selves (the main Whispers you fight at the end, and I’m basing this on their description in the bestiary) and the big whisper dude so that they’re no longer there to protect the timeline. After their destruction, pretty much nothing is preventing things from happening in a different way.
Crisis Core was kind of messed up now that I think about it. We played as the bad guys, making action in a war against Wutai, hunt people who escaped from Shinra yet Zack keeps insisting he is the hero
To be fair, Genesis was a fuck, and we saved Angeal from having to stay in the story longer
Zack is a hero. Did he fully understand the Wutai war? No he didnt but there were times he spared Wutain soldiers. Zack was very bblind to what Shinra was thats why post Nibleheim he takes a stand against Shinra
well that's the thing about playing a character that sides with shinra early on, same with before crisis, since it was a Turks vs Avalanche game.
"Hey Zack, how was work?"
"Turns out my friends and coworkers are being genetically modified and turned into monsters, I'm probably gonna stick it out for awhile though."
He was misled by Shinra and SOLDIER and didn't realize it until the end, it's more just tragic than heroic, but he *was* a hero by the end of it
Max's passion for this series is just endless.
I kinda hope Zack and Clouds timelines intersect at some point. (And I feel it's a good possibility) but there can only be one buster sword. That's when Cloud gets his fusion blade.
Honestly, I’d be more surprised if Cloud doesn’t get his Fusion Blades in “Rebirth” or the third part, especially with “Remake” Zack being the FFVII universe’s equivalent of Schrödinger's cat right now (for lack of a better analogy). The main question is how are they going to adapt them into the gameplay in a way that doesn’t frustrate people used to him fighting in a specific way for several hours (aside from giving his fighting skills to Zack)? Regardless, it will most likely result in some ridiculously cool new attacks for Cloud, especially when he starts dual-wielding.
@@Harukurochan Good question. I'm interested to see where it leads to.
I dont think they are gonna do multiple timelines. They are gonna do some weird Steins Gate stuff, where the timeline basically resolves itself at the start. Something like Zack leaving Cloud together with the buster sword in Midgar and then leaving Midgar (maybe to find a way to save Aerith, because now he also gets visions of 'the future')
Probably going to make a dlc where you play as Zack during Rebirth to see what he got up too, just like they did with Yuffie
@@lazareth7598 sz
Ah...finally some new FF7 theory crafting by max
I love your hype for this game, story and characters. No one in my circles shares our love for this. Glad to know Im not alone LOL.
At the start of FF7 OG Aerith's eyes are open the entire time, it's only at the end of FF7 before the credits, we see the shot of her eyes closed and then open. I always wondered why there was a difference and I want to believe they always had an idea that they would use that in the future somehow for a sequel to the game.
I feel like aerith also knows about the past timeline just as sephiroth does. When she tells cloud not to fall in love with her in the dream was some hinted foreshadow. And when sephiroth tells cloud he has 7 seconds and what will he do with it. And i think it was 7 seconds from sephiroth falling down and killing aerith. I think aerith will still die. Cloud and everyone else maybe prevent the original way of how aerith dies but maybe aerith knows she has to die to save everyone, she will sacrifice herself. That’s my take and I want to know what everyone else thinks about it too.
Aerith will be killed in one time line yet she will live in the other and survive in the end and keep her memories consistent to one Aerith
@@TheDapperDragon I mean... *puts on tinfoil fedora* he could be an incel by choice
She lives this time she will be killed in one timeline live in another and the memories will be in one final Aerith that survives
@@TheDapperDragon It implies that Advent children ending will not happen. Aerith is dead in Advent, she will live this time
She definitely does. In fact I think the whole opening cutscene has her starting to realize all the weird shit going on.
I have a strange suspicion that all the events in OG FFVII will be wrapped up in Rebirth and NOT extended into part 3.
I think part 3 will be some wholly new thing, wrapping up all the new plotlines and alt reality events, going to new places and exploring how it all came to be and how to stop Sephiroth and/or Jenova for good.
I also had this theory - Maybe Remake and Rebirth are prologue chapters to the final part that will be something entirely new. Like Sephiroth is merely going back in time to prepare and test Cloud and the others for a new threat that will reveal itself in part 3. What if part 3 is simply Final Fantasy 17...
So kinda like Shin Evangelion? I'm down for that if it happen.
Imagine we get something similar to the ending of Jojo Part 6. Everything erased. 😶
I would like it but that is A LOT, the WEAPONS, special materia, extra quests, chocobos.. I would love that but how
This would be too ballsy though and could risk a plethora of negative criticism
I could absolutely see Hojo figuring out what’s going on because he is the only character in Remake besides Sephiroth who isn’t scared of, annoyed by or taken aback by the Whispers. He immediately goes “What is this fascinating phenomenon?” He’s going to figure it out. It MIGHT even be the new inciting incident that causes him to quit Shinra like he does in OG
I have a new theory. in FF7 Remake the "7 sec to the end" plays a huge part. Cloud was holding his head as if he was seeing an event that was playing out; however, we the viewer doesn't see it and in fact Sephiroth stops him and says "What lies ahead does no yet exists" meaning even Sephiroth is very very well aware of the future ahead. Which leads to my theory this isn't his first rodeo in fact he is trying to prevent something that keeps happening.
...If it turns out there's some sort of cosmic existential threat and Sephiroth is doing all the timeline shit to stop it and turns out to be the hero of the story I will very much lose my mind.
@@britpoint7022 This is my favorite possible conclusion, I hope it's this. Perhaps he's testing Cloud and the others at the end of Remake for what's to come in the future?
@@itsz3lus427seeing Cloud being a temporary problem probably at the spot he losses it in the original but this time it will be something else also even if Sephiroth does good Cloud will never willingly see it.
I think in the Og FFVII, Sephiroth killed Aerith in 7 seconds
There's a really good video titled "the New Reunion" by a creator called Sleepzi that I recommend anyone who likes to theory craft watch. I'm almost certain the dude figured out where the whole plan of Sephiroth's is going and how memory, the lifestream, Jenova, the whispers and fate are all connected and play a part in it. It's long, though, so make some time 😅
People are sleeping on Sleepezi. He's not afraid to research the whole compilation, including Before Crisis, The kids are alright, On the way to a smile and all the Ultimanias, including ones that were never officially translated, to get the whole picture. He knows how many illigitimate children President Shinra has, who are the Restrictors of Deepground, and OG Avalanche vs. Turks war. The bombing of Kalm etc. He's literally THE guy to listen to if you want to know the full picture. Not some "Dirge is bad therefore we don't count it, Before Crisis was never released in the west so we don't count it" (not talking about Max btw). Can't wait for his future videos and Rebirth playthrough!
@@ИванВанёк-л5б I think Dirge is irrelevant in regard to the remake, as it happened after the end of Advent Children when Sephiroth was defeated, but he manipulated the Lifestream into sending him into the past. Sephiroth simply wasn't around for that. Not to mention, I get the feeling that Deepground will be resolved during the Remake. Probably during the Raid on Midgar.
@@LeonheartDelta geostigma is still present in Dirge in large quantities, Sephiroth probably still hangs out in remote parts of Lifestream, the Deepground lore and history are mostly explained in Dirge PlayOnline mode, so how can Dirge be irrelevant?
@@LeonheartDelta Dirge of Cerberus is meh, BUT there is no actual logical precedence that could logically lead to the conclusion that Sephiroth goes time traveling before Dirge of Cerberus.
The only thing that’s sure is that Sephiroth goes time traveler mode after Advent Children. When is it exactly though, is unknown. It could very well be way long after the end of Dirge Cerberus. It could even be way long in the future when humanity in that planet already extinct.
No one currently knows the exact time when Sephiroth finding time traveling method, outside of some FFVII Remake devs. Anyone who claims they are in the know, you can take what they said with an unedible amount of grains of salt lol
@@ИванВанёк-л5б to be fair, Geostigma continued existence on Dirge of Cerberus is not reliant to Sephiroth’s existence in the lifestream. Geostigma is the result of part of lifestream being contaminated by Jenova’s gene. It doesn’t really take Sephiroth to still be there for Geostigma to persist. Also, Dirge of Cerberus does happened not long after Advent Children, so even if Sephiroth already gone on his time travelling business, it’s within reason that Geostigma would still be there not completely cured yet from denizens of the planet.
That to say, there is also no precedence to say that Sephiroth already gone time travelling during Dirge of Cerberus. Some people just mistakenly jumped to that conclusion when they heard that it’s the Sephiroth that’s after he’s getting beaten in Advent Children. Some people doesn’t realized that “after Advent Children” can still happened a thousand years after it.
I see no one talking about HOW Sephiroth is changing "fate". I'm so excited to see the method. I personally believe he's tapping into the location he fights Cloud 1v1 at (The Edge of Creation). It seems he's trying to act upon being a "God". The end of FF7Remake Sephiroth using that ability is an interesting tease, to me. It's also a very interesting follow up to the end of PS1 FF7
I always enjoy listening to Max talk about FF7. It's what drew me to his channel intially. The first video I ever saw of his was his reaction to the very first FF7 remake teaser. I was an immediate subscriber after that.
I'm getting the impression the end of FF7Remake is actually the ending of the alternate timeline Crisis Core. Since the singular event is Zack's last stand and the two results are where the timelines deviate. Sephiroth went back to when Cloud was reborn and is trying to effectively snuff him out in the cradle.
to be honest, I would be on board with this theory if Sephiroth didn't literally tell Cloud that he doesn't want him dead.
I think we're seeing two beings duking it out through the timeline. You have OG Sephiroth, the one who died in VII and came back for a hot minute in AC, who has become SUCH a goddamned problem in the Lifestream because of Jenova that he's able to go back through it to mess with time (I see Harbinger and the Time Ghosts effectively as a WEAPON). The other party trying to counter him is the OG Aerith, the one who dies in VII at the hands of Sephiroth but is still clearly fighting as of Advent Children through the Lifestream. Sephiroth has the advantage of Jenova and being able to manipulate the Jenova cells still, so he's able to cover ground. Aerith can really only effect Aerith, which is why Remake Aerith is a more on the ball about things and knows what's going on and can influence the others to a degree. Cloud starts seeing visions after he and Aerith interact (helps that he's also SOLDIER).
Any way, it's my theory that by the end of this we might see the OG Aerith make an appearance in some form to give one last middle finger to Sephiroth and his inability to let go.
Red XIII also knows what's going on when he has the vision of humanity gone from the world that happened at the end of Advent Children, he also looks to Aerith and asks if it's okay to share, she nods in approval.
Rebirth is going to be insane, and I can't wait for it.
Max’s passion for FF7 reminds me why I love this medium of entertainment
Dude Zack is alive because Cloud uses the 7 seconds Sephiroth gives him at the end of Remake to Avert Zack's death.
And here I am, with my own theory, but I think the Whispers, while a defensive mechanism of the Planet, is controlled by Jenova. Everything surrounding the Whispers is coloured purple and grey, colours associated with Jenova and Sephiroth. And we know the Planet, and the Lifestream, are always associated with green/seafoam blue-green colours. Colour theory is important! The developers don't choose these colours randomly, they signify different aspects and/or people!
But that's my two cents :)
My theory is that all the Whispers are spirits from the LS that Sephiroth corrupts and uses to interfere with the surface. There is an undeniable relationship between the Whispers and Sephiroth/Jenova. They wear capes, they are black and purple, their design is traced to the OG Copies, they do nothing to Sephi, their song appears in Sephiroth's theme One Winged Angel……….. The great plot twist of the Remake will be that everything that R13 and Aerith told us was not true because she was being manipulated by Sephiroth through the Whispers. (Toriyama said that Whispers steal Aerith's memories)
@@miguel2091 Yeah, yeah, exactly! That's my thought as well! About the Aerith bit, I mean.
It'd be funny if Sephiroth's downfall will be not knowing the events of *The Dirge*
Sephiroth: "Thanks for the black Materia, Cloud."
**sword stabs Sephiroth's back**
???: "Even if the morrow is barren of promises, nothing shall forestall my return."
Sephiroth: "W-why are you..."
Gackt: "Dreams of the morrow hath the shattered soul, Pride is lost, Wings stripped away, the end is nigh."
*The Unknown Journey Continues In... *
*Final Fantasy VII: REDEMPTION*
**Credits**
I threw up a little, but I also wouldn't put it past them anymore.
@@Alcogod tbh Genesis is currently my most probable archvillain in the new Tide of Fate stream.
The wait for Rebirth is absolutely excruciating.
It’s literally hindering my day to day because all I want to do is check to see for any new news or a trailer to drop all day everyday.
Yep, this is where I'm at. After that crazy cliffhanger and all this 4th level thinking, these 3 years have been rough. But we will make it
Here's the proper abridged Timeline:
Final Fantasy 7 for PS1
Thats it, nothing else happened.
Nomura is turning final fantasy 7 into kingdom hearts.
Stop that. They are nothing alike
Nomura didn't wrote the remake story, Nojima did
It would be crazy if when you first meet Bugen, he just turns and says something like “Hello Cloud. It’s been awhile hasn’t it? Nice to finally meet you.” That would fit his character so well. Being all knowing and incredibly mysterious
Square-Enix doesn't give a fuck. They are just doing whatever the fuck to the FF series and Kingdom Hearts and fans just make shit up to try and have it makes sense.
I see a LOT of people complaining about story changes, and all I can ask myself is why??? I get wanting to replay a remade version of the OG game, but I cannot understand how some people aren't excited, considering they will be getting a game that generally follows the same original storyline with some plot twists to keep it interesting.
Im a firm believer in that the opening Aerith scene in Remake happens right after the final Aerith scene at the end of OG 7. Its very similar.
“I will never be a memory.” - Sephiroth from Final Fantasy Advent Children
I'm literally editing something related to FF lmao! Max's videos about FF7 are amazing, he's extremely knowledgeable about it and the FF fanbase that he garners is amazing!
I cannot wait for not only more theories but to see if he's gonna be back with the easy allies dropping bombs and spoiling the shit out of the game lmao
EDIT: yes!!!!! after almost 3 years, Max finally used the white board! Such a big moment lmao
Never clicked so fast for a max vid!!! Shine On!!!
Its not clear if survivor Zack will be in his own unique timeline, or if he gets merged into the new main timeline. The Shrina mascot is the biggest hint and most confusing evidence. Its unclear if his design is different because it was different in the past, or because of a ripple effect from time shenanigans creating a new separate timeline.
At the end of FF7R, before Yuffie’s mission, Zack is seen carrying Cloud. At the end of Yuffie’s mission, it is not explained where Cloud went. Why isn’t Zack still carrying Cloud? Why would they omit the detail?
Zack walks into the church where people are crying. Some theorize its because something may have happened to Aerith in the new timeline. However, people would still be in mourning from the upper plate falling, and seeking refuge and comfort in the church. If Survivor Zack’s reappearance merges him into the new main timeline in relation to the crew defeating the spirits and leaving Midgar, Zack would now be finding out about the devastation of the plate falling.
Its probably purposefully unclear, so its a 50-50 on whatever theory you feel the mascot clue hints towards.
I believe Red XIII also knows because Aerith showed him
I could just sit here and hear Max talk about FF7 all day long. Keep it up dood!!
Maybe I'm crazy, but do you think Sephiroth's goal in the remake timeline is to try to create a timeline where he doesn't become the villain?
thats what I was thinking. Sephi just wanted to be a loved good boy all along T_T
It's a possibility. This is where the ending of Remake dialogue is very important. Where Aerith says sephiroth will say he only cares about the planet but he is the biggest danger there is. Then Sephiroth does reply with "Those who see with clouded eyes see nothing but shadows." This could mean that Aerith still has limited knowledge compared to what Sephiroth knows. It is 100% possible Sephiroth's plan is to help the planet and Aerith having other knowledge of how Sephiroth is is still viewing him negatively. Or it's also possible that Aerith knows Sephiroth is a bigger danger than Jenova herself and He's actually going to make everything much much worse.
Then you can add sephiroths words to zack in crisis core. Keep in mind Crisis Core was released for a reason. He says that depending on what happens at Nibelheim he may have to leave Shinra. Also the fact that at the edge of creation, Sephiroth is talking to cloud as his pre-insanity self, based off the Japanese translation. At that moment he is also asking cloud for his help. So who knows. Cloud may be the key to utter destruction or whole salvation as he is the only other carrier of pure S cells.
@@Snowflakesonlypawssaw a weird theory about how Gaia/the Planet was being Influenced by lingering Jenova cells in the lifestream long after Advent Children in other places in the world not in Midgar where Aerith’s fountain was. This is really messed up cause she could be mimicking Minerva’s voice from the future lifestream….I wonder if that is part of the bad ending Red XIII was referring to as well. Another thing Sephiroth was stuck in limbo after Cloud died in the 500 hundred years after game segment whenever that was. I think he was actually “happy” and new much more and seemed different when there was a point to somehow go back in time however that happened. Too many Sephiroth lol.
@@SkysetCheryl84 those don’t seem like impossible ideas
He's Anakin going into Darth Vader coming back to Anakin type of hero )
This is getting into Kingdom Hearts levels of plot fuckery, and as someone who absolutely loves Kingdom Hearts I can say this with absolute certainty:
*WE MUST stop Nomura before he pulls out another Mobile Gacha game with VITAL PLOT & LORE for the next mainline installment.*
and all of these r the consequences of FF Versus XIII getting canceled 😂
@@rakhaalif8037 I hate that you are right
Max: "there is a third timeline"
*Sephirot theme kicks in*
🤣
I love these videos with max. Honestly the thought of Hojo having an idea of the timelines is a great theory.
I played FF7 Remake Intergrade last year, it was my into to this world as a person who hasn’t really liked Final Fantasy games. I’ve gone back and played the original as well as crisis core and I will say it has become one of my favorite universes period. I’m absolutely in love with it.
Okay.
Bottom line.
Sephiroth SOMEHOW survived his last fight with Cloud after Advent Children. His whole 'I will never be a memory' embued a 'will' formed in the lifestream that SOMEHOW expands the existence of memory, case in point, past events that had happened, spirits or souls that live on through ones memory, blah blah blah. Sephiroth being the sore loser he is, knows Cloud will always be stronger than him decides to use the lifestream to go back in time (not gonna go into HOW that works, cuz Square will handle that) and REdo all the failed attempts of bringing calamity. The end of 'Remake' pretty much derailed everything the original was known for telling us that this truly is not the Remake we were expecting but an entirely new story that will be unfolded in the next supposedly two entries.
Look, I wanna be optimistic, but having something like 'time travel' involved just sounds like an excuse to cut corners on things these days. If they eliminate 'The Weapons' out of this Remake series, I'm losing hope for Nomura because his 'T.T.' complex is getting WAY out of hand.
Thank you for posting this! Has passed some time whilst I'm in hospital. Great FF video as always!
I honestly really wanted Max explanation of the FF7 timeline and I'm glad that he did a video on it. If Sephiroth is the Darth Vader of FF7 it would be really cool if he had a Redemption arc of some kind in either the second or third game. FF7 Redemption... probably won't happen, but one can dream.
This! It could be because I've always been a Sephiroth fan boy so I may be biased, but I've never felt him as a true villian. Like no doubt unless you are blind Hojo is the true villian, and I can understand things Seph has done are bad, but after all... what would you do in his situation? As someone that suffers from mental health I can very much relate to him and I can only see him taking 2 paths. Falling into a deep depression and eventually suicide or going mad, losing himself, consumed with rage. I honestly always thought that in the end with how both Dirge and Advent were left on a cliff, that maybe they were going to make a game or movie that would have some way of bringing Seph back and fighting Genesis. I'm super excited to see what they do so forgive my rambling :). Any chance I can give my opinion of Sephiroth always makes me happy to talk about.
@@NihonNoMajin Same I always found Sephiroth character so interesting for the same reason. He's definitely not the true villian it's been Hojo pulling the strings for the entire FF7 story. I hope that the next 2 games show us at least Sephiroth's human side again as he is trying to snap out it that would be awesome to him definitely getting a redemption arc like I want see! BTW I'm a huge Sephiroth fan too so you weren't rambling at all it's interesting.
@gpocketgamer7981 for sure! They could go so many ways :). Like i can't really say for the English version, but in Japanese he talks very differently in Remake. Almost like his old self, but then again you could just look at it as him playing mind games with Cloud which he was good at in OG so. Idk I don't necessarily MIND Sephiroth be a villian, but if he is going to be a villian then make him a villian you know what I mean. Have him go all out in his fighta and give him more of a evil purpose instead of coming off as almost not giving his all. Kind of like he is ethereal if thay makes since. Idk, for me he doesn't give me villian vibes like Hojo, Kefka, The Emperor, Exdeath, and some other FF characters. Then again I suppose it really comes down to what you believe a villian is 🤔. For me a villian is someone that had no real reason or cause of why they do bad/evil things. If you give a character reasons or why they do/have done bad things (like Sephiroth, Aryden, Kuja, Vayne, Golbez, etc) does it really make them a villian or more of a anti hero?
@@NihonNoMajin Yeah I always felt that Sephiroth motivation is JENOVA who IMO manipulates him in doing those evil acts. What Sephiroth does in the OG FF7 did make a villian for lot's of fans of the series and the way he is with Cloud in Advent Children (plus other games he and Cloud were featured in). I found him to be a badass as a villian tbh and why I am fan of the character for his overall story behind it. I do agree Hojo cleary has selfish motives doesn't care about anyone or anything which makes a villian and unlikable. Kefka for sure is villian with his hunger for power and ultimately destroying part of the world killing millions in the process makes him a true villian. If they do go in a direction that Sephiroth remains a villian I wouldn't be disappointed I would like to see how they would pull it off to make more of a villian then what we are use to with him.
@gpocketgamer7981 it seems a lot of people do think JENOVA controls Sephiroth, but idk 🤷♂️ I can't remember any evidence in the game stating such and I always thought it was Sephiroth with his strong will that could manipulate Jenova cells. Just like Sephiroth has a lot of biblical interpretations down from both his and Jenova's name. Even his birth is like a birth of Jesus in a way given how J cells were injected into a fetus which the DNA was overwritten, but that may be very dark for some people to accept I guess 😂. Does explain a lot though in my humble opinion. I'm with you! It will probably be next year before we get Rebirth so I'm super excited and got money in my savings waiting on that collectors edition haha :). I'm sure 16 will hold me over until then. Plus next month got the Theatrhythm game coming out and the Pixel Remaster is suppose to drop for consoles sometime 🤔.
bugenhagen was more lost than any of us lol
I could listen to him talk about FF7 all day.
I feel like there's something special about Marlene as well given that she sort of found out about remake Aerith's "whatever thing she knows" when she hugged her. She's kinda receptive to the lifestream stuff as well.
I think it's likely an Advent Children reference.
If you go back and look at the plot cut scenes carefully in Remake, Aerith acts like she already knows what's gonna happen. Instances like when she first met Cloud, in the church when Reno came, in Sector 7 Slums before the plate fell, her dialogues foretells whats gonna happen.
Who knows what minor events might change, which snowball into cataclysmic ones. The problem with the Whispers is that they didn't interfere with the minor changes until there were too changes to stop the branching, and their forceful attempts while a stopgap for bit, blew up in their faces. I bet SEPHIROTH is gonna take advantage of this and subtlety shift things in his favour without anyone the wiser.
Dude... if Hojo pulls a 180 on everybody and does indeed become the final boss of this time line, that could be wild.
It’s telling cause he was the main antagonist in Dirge of Cerberus.. he caused like.. catalyst of all major events into motion
Guessing someone would finally tell Sephiroth who is daddy is, and he'll go even more nuts lol 😆
CC:R is great for people to experience the old game again. I LOVE how the FF7 team 100% have a plan for the Remake series and what they want. Here’s hoping Remake delivers because I want 10+hr of Max theorizing
BUGENHAGEN IS THE KEY! I'm calling it! The NANOSECOND we get to Cosmo Canyon, is when ALL is revealed... kinda like how that was the case in OG FF7, but ON A BIGGER SCALE!
I remember one of the conversation with Bugenhagen with red 13 is him wishing he could change fate. The word Fate is capitalized so I wonder if changing Fates idea has been around since the og they just didn't have the opportunity to do that kind of story
Speaking of Cloud getting visions of things that had happened in the original timeline because of the Whispers & other plot stuff, but not fully knowing their context, I think another character will experience something similar in “Rebirth” and the third instalment: Rufus. After his fight with Cloud, Rufus is able to see the Whispers circling Shinra tower, but Tseng can’t. I suspect Rufus is going to get visions of the original timeline and use them to try and hinder Avalanche *and Sephiroth* so he can try and escape his original fate of barely surviving the attack by Diamond WEAPON, his Turks being brutalized by Sephiroth, and Shinra being destroyed.
It would certainly explain why they included a scene that lasts a couple of minutes, and right before the final battles of “Rebirth” no less, of Rufus seeing the Whispers. I’m excited to see how the timeline shenanigans unfold moving forward in the trilogy.
Wait wait wait... does that mean that in the OG game Hojo's reunion theory was actually talking about this!? About all the disparate time lines coming back together???
I don't know, but that would be amazing as the plot for the last game in this trilogy.
Remember when Sephiroth
Says "I will never be a memory"
In Advent Children and he was in the life stream
....yeahhh that's when this dude goes back in times and fucks everything up
Creating Remake
I think its not a timeline thing but more like memories in the lifestream. Also this isn't the first time sephiroth messed with the life stream so its possible. If it is inside the life stream then that means all of this happened when every character had already passed and this could have happened after the 200 year time skip with red 13 overlooking midgar as a forest
The lifestream is a collective of all things but not from different timelines, we know this because Aeris with holy is the plot device in the original game.
The copout that sort of makes sense with remake is Jessie, Biggs and Wedge were never technically killed, only implied offscreen, so they were saved with "edge of creation" wibbly wobbly timeline magic stuff, Zack cannot be dead and alive in the same timeline which is why you see the 2 timelines cross at the end, this will mean there is 2 different endings for these 2 timelines because Midgar is altered in timeline 2 and events that happened in timeline 2 may not happen in timeline 3 because Zack knows Shinra's secrets.
Finally somebody acknowledges Memories. It is more logical this is Cloud's memories Aerith wants to remake to free him from Sephiroth, creating a "memory timeline" where people like Zack survive even though they do not for real. This goes more hand in hand with FFVII
Lore because Sephiroth will return through being connected to Cloud's memories and he and Aerith are connected with Cloud's soul. They never closed the door of Sephiroth's immortality.
So maybe Hojo starting to tell Cloud about his past was his experiment to see what the plot ghosts would do.
Can't wait for the new chapter I wonder what they are gonna change and keep
Not that I believe I am right or wrong, or anyone for that matter, but...
I don't believe in this alternate timeline thing in FF7. That was VIII theme. FF7 has always been about memories. So was Crisis Core and so was Advent Children. Everything in the Rebirth teaser is part of Cloud's distorted memories and furthermore (which he never did in OG) he appears to be creating more fictional memories. He will remember at some point about Zack helping him to Midgar and will wonder what happened to him 5 years ago? He clearly can't remember Zack dying. I think Cloud is a lot more messed up in the Remake series and they are going to use that to mess with us as the player. Nothing in that teaser ever really happened when concerning Cloud.
I think a lot of Remakes surprises are like us watching it in Cloud's mind-type-thing. A bit mess up like Senua from Hellblade.
As Cloud said at the end of AC to Sephiroth "Stay in my memories where you belong."
This 100%
I think Genesis would probably know about the timeline shenanigans too.
I have always been like "with how crazy FF7 getting, maybe I should google and research" but just before I finished typing my brain would go, "nahhh, just wait for max" then just wait patiently for this type of video
The convoluted timeline begins
Begins? I'm pretty sure Sephiroth was showing Cloud the multiverse in FF7R.
I think there are multiple splits in the timeline caused by Sephiroth throughout FFVIIR but repaired by the Whispers until Sephiroth tricks Cloud and Aerith into weakening the Whispers enough for Sephiroth to absorb them, and then change the outcome of Zack’s final battle. Aerith may well figure it out and she understands her death is the only way to activate Holy and defeat Jenova.
I'm almost more looking forward to Max doing spoilermode with Easy Allies after rebirth...than rebirth itself
Now I am worried this is slowly turning into the type of convoluted mess I don't like from Nomura. Hope they either calm down with this or the end of the trilogy they stick the landing with no plot holes or lose threads.
I would trust the plan but I've played Kingdom Hearts and have seen it before.
Its very simple. Og happened and is canon. Sephiroth from Advent Children went back in time to change things in his favor thus id Remake timeline. And Zack has his own timeline to show the consequences of Sephiroth changing events
@@TheDapperDragon Yeah I know, I said I am worried it is going to turn into a convoluted mess not that it is.
@@grimhellscythe6998 I never said I didn't understand the timeline.
@@clumsyturtle8544 then its not becoming convuleted mess like KH, KH only became Convoluted due to terms in kh being weird. Like hurt is a noun for some reason.
@@grimhellscythe6998 I said I am worried it will turn into one not that it is. please stop with this strawman.
What if a version of Hojo from thousands of years in the future, who has achieved his god status from melding with Omega Weapon + Jenova's power is actually manipulating the timeline and Sephiroth is trying to stop him by going back and actually making things right? Maybe Genesis will come back at some point to.
Hojo is the ultimate villain of this specific FF franchise. I cant imagine them not doing this somewhere down the road.
Gosh my brain… that’s a level 3 theory wow..
That is about as Nomura as it gets. 🤣 It definitely seems tame compared to KH though. I guess he got all his weirdest crap out with KH3... hopefully.
Nomura didn’t write this tho
What I really want to know is this - If Hojo really learns that he is a part of a changing timeline from his encounter with the Whispers and stuff, what will he do? Will he continue with his plan to imprint his brain on the network to take over Deepground? I mean, he will realize this plan probably failed too, so maybe he will do something completely different? Imagine all of the routs they can now go with him... he can become a secondary villain of the whole FFVII timeline next to Sephiroth. He can kill Zack before Aerith's eyes... IMAGINE THAT. The potential is crazy.
I am curious. Zack parents are in,gongaga, correct? Zack was in gongaga in crisis core,so why didn't Zack visit his parents?
Cissnei in CC sort of loosely implied that Zack shouldn't be sticking around in Gongaga to visit his parents because that is the first place the Turks would look for him.
@Ryan Harrison maybe.but,Zack parents were writing him constantly and you'd think he'd at least do a,quick visit
@@paulsmith9192 Yeah it's kinda weird but it is what it is I guess.
@Ryan Harrison yeah.I wish someone would ask max that on,twitch. I dont use twitch,so.but,it always bugged me
I imagine them remembering Zack beeing dead, and also beeing alive, both memories... Cloud remembering getting the buster sword from Zack while he's dying, but also receiving as a gift after the fight. ...that would be crazy.
The question no one seems to ask is how Sephiroth even realized all of this to then go back and change events.
Damn. All I wanted was my favorite game to have updated graphics.
What people seem to forget is Aerith knew what was going to happen in the original too.
the idea of hojo eventually realizing what is going on is kind of crazy and the last thing we would need XD
but after his brush with the plot ghosts, i'm sure it at least piqued his curiosity. tho i think its interesting that he couldn't see them yet Rufus could. or at least, it really did look like Rufus saw them
I think it’s time for another 3 hour session on easy Allies lol
After seeing this video i remember what sephiroth said when cloud beat him in AC, he said, " i'll never be a memory ".. maybe we'll see what he meant by that
This is all very confusing
I love when Max makes these kinds of videos. Always gets my speculation going as well.
If there is one thing Max's run through of Crisis Core: Reunion has reinforced in my mind, it is the importance of not only the whole story of Zack, but wording as well. Specifically how Jenova Project codes were uttered. Project G and Project S for Genesis and Sephiroth respectively. However, the first "Project" ever mentioned in FFVII lore is "Project C". At the time, it seemed logical. "Ah yes, the third experimental research in Jenova Project researching the two exposed to full crazy Sephiroth." Crisis Core upended this by having "Jenova Project G" and "Jenova Project S", code names based on the names of the subjects. Interesting food for thought, could there be more to the name "Project C"? One speculation by Hojo in FFVII: Remake sealed it for me though. Specifically when he contemplated what the offspring of Aerith and a "G" or "S" type soldier would be like. It got me questioning something. Specifically regarding the age difference between Cloud and Aerith. What I determined was intriguing to say the least.
Aerith and Ifalna were in Shinra custody when Cloud was concieved.
Now combine that with a few little tidbits we do have about Cloud's family life, and his interactions with others. For one thing, we only know about Cloud's mother (uncreativally named Claudia), and that's it. Not even a whiff of a father, extended family, nothing. He grew up in Nibelhiem, a town dependent on both the Mako reactor and Shinra research for its economy. Ie, anyone living there is likely to work for Shinra directly or indirectly. Later on in the original game, Hojo refers to Cloud as a "failed experiment", but later corrects himself in Midgar before the fight with him. Under the previous context, we could assume this had to do with the experiments Hojo did on him and Zack after the Nibelhiem incident. However, I believe that "Project C" has more significance, and it has something to do with comments made by Hollander. That Cloud had the last pure sample of S cells. Sephiroth was gone and presumed dead by the time Hojo scooped up Cloud and Zack. Where did he get the pure, undegraded cells? Particularly when Zack was already said to have degraded cells. Combined together, there is one conclusion I can draw.
Project C was an attempt to combine the attributes of Jenova, then known by Hojo through Gast's research to not be an ancient, with those of a true living ancient using either Aerith's or more likely Ifalna's cells. The end result was a child named Cloud. And Aerith already knows this in Remake, but that's another theory.
So glad we still have fans that are accepting of this new vision of the ff7 universe. Mad respect for the OG ff7 its "perfect". Now we get a new story with cloud and friends
Pretty sure the nexus where Sephiroth suddenly breaks the timeline, and why Cloud is having visions of things, is when he and Cloud got teleported to Smash. It's the only random event that happens outside of the game which interferes with the characters.
This is hilarious regardless of whether you’re serious or not
Guhhhhh Square is KH-ing the FF7 story. Why does it need to be so needlessly confusing? Lets just go kill god and call it a day people. Killing god worked for past and future FF games and it was confusing enough with that.
1. Kingdom Hearts nonsense is Final Fantasy nonsense
2. Nomura didn't write the Remake projects
Bro, it's super obvious that what happened was Sephiroth bought a game shark and accessed the debug room. Found a way to change the timeline, then we have Remake. Simple.
"Cloud's an idiot" - Max 2023
I'm still holding onto the theory that the Holy Materia essentially caused a RE-DO of the events, with Aerith able to remember events either because that's how Cetra be, or because she had already merged with the Lifestream.
I hope we get no timelines, boring, barf, stupid storytelling.
It's hilarious how Max turns into the FF equivalent of a Kingdom Hearts theorycrafter whenever FF7 is involved. It's funny to watch.
Im honestly done trying to understand the story, I was gonna get rebirth but nah...