Precision motion control: ODrive Servo? Trinamic Stepper? Chinese Hybrid?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 เม.ย. 2018
- Blue Hybrid: www.banggood.com/custlink/DDm...
ODrive: odriverobotics.com/#odrive
Bench PSU: www.welectron.com/Siglent-SPD...
Patreon: / marcoreps
In this video I want to find the best motion control system for my new CNC machine. I have been collecting candidates in the past months and now it's time to compare them: A Chinese hybrid stepper w/ encoder, a new Trinamic IC called TMC5160 and an open source hardware BLDC servo driver called ODrive. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![[TEST] Odrive Motor Control](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dntYSxTFm3c/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TEST] Odrive Motor Control](/img/tr.png)
Stepper monsters. Dancing Pepe. Overheat shrink. Concerned kermit (I am sure I missed even more).
You have outdone yourself this time, simply outstanding. Chapeau!
I fully encourage the option of "why not all of them" when presented with multiple choices of CNC projects, look forward to see their construction.
Laser engraved oscilloscope screen?...lol
Who's that pokemon!?
Alucard Pawpad, it's Pikachu!!!
Looking forward to the builds. Also, it's nice to see a video listing the pros and cons of each of the normal driver flavors instead of just servo vs stepper.
I love the way your carbonize the wires to improve their efficiency. ;)
That's exactly how I used thermal-shrink tube yesterday at work :)
I love this video! I am very new to the whole motion control world and the overview you gave on the different systems are fantastic!
5:45, yes I read that monster datasheet. Overwhelming is a good adjective. I look forward to using this Trinamic chip set.
10:12 That's a very beautiful layered musical chord your motors struck! I might sample that.
I love how projects to make cnc kit to make stuff become more importent/interesting than the stuff you needed a cnc machine for to start with :D
Man, I love your videos. Thanks
Good stuff! You may be interested in the Clearpath servo motors with integrated controller from Teknic.
Yes, I've seen that in your Bullet Time video, very cool but very pricey :L
how about Mechaduino? can be attached to any stepper that has its shaft visible on the backside to put a small diametrically polarized magnet on it. also opensource.
or VESC which is opensource too, made for up to 50v 240A brushless motors and supports hall/encoder feedback.
The thing has put me away from clearpath is lack of encoder outputs. I know they're meant to be direct stepper replacements but then you might as well just keep the steppers. I have a big (4500)kg mill I switched to linuxcnc. Was considering clearpath for the 4th/5th axis, but you get more for the money with DMM servos.
whoa nerd royalty in the house. greetings Ben.
i was going to say that good on you both
That is very nice field-oriented-control on those brushless motors! Amazing! And for a fraction of a fraction of the cost!
What a fantastic demonstration of control and description. Thank you.
CANT WAIT for the project video
Great video! The 'Press enter and hide!' was superb! :D
just found your site, super funny and useful at the same time, subscribed, THANK YOU!
Your videos gets better and better each time I watch them. :-)
I like these comedy videos masquerading as engineering videos. Dry as a bone!
for some reason this channel is soothing to watch i dont know why and some of them i dont even know what they are
Man your videos are so great! Thanks for sharing!
Looking forward to seeing these machines.
Neat what you're doing with your scope screen!
Wow! Amazing visual effects - it really blew me away + the sound *lol*
Can you do a video on what you are using to edit your videos - they look soo good! Thumbs up!
Thanks so much for sharing such superb work. (Glasses and goggles are cool - they keep your looks up ;-)
It's a good use of your time! Keep doing what you love!
Love your work Marco !
Thanks for such a great comparison!
I love the chinese hybrid the most, with that awesome awesome driver that adjusts current and detects step loss. I like the idea it just interrupts, instead of trying to recover (and doing something awful). You could hook that up to a custom program to re-home the machine and continue.
I use dynamotion kflop. Real closed loop. From now on I feel joy and calm.
No matter how much work time, always accurate coordinates.
Stepper motor driver Leadshine, most silent and powerful.
42 volts power sourse.
Thanks for sharing 😀👍
You always find a way to use your time, this way or another project way..😉
Excellent information, very helpful!
DAMN! I can't believe I didn't know about this Odrive before now. I've an active RC enthusiast for 30 years now, and was into high end 4x4 short course and buggy racing for the last 10. That being said, I'm a hobbywing guy. Hobbywing is the only manufacturer that I know of that offers G2 motors that utilize two separate encoders. This was a real advancement over the rest of the rc motor world, as having two separate hall sensors allowed them run the low resolution sensor for lowspeed operation. Before the invention of these type motors, the speed control (ESC) would just turn the sensor off at low speeds so that it would prevent "cogging" (the bucking and hanging up due to low torque when going from 0-moving) Once the ESC sensed that the motor was running past a certain RPM, it would then turn on the sensor mode for high resolution control and superior efficiency over non-sensored motors. So I guess what I'm getting at is I wonder if it's possible to take one of the G2 Motors that have dual sensors and get write code needed for a redundancy algorithm setup with one of these drivers?.... Hmmm. Got my head spinning now!
The best channel on TH-cam!
I'm working with the TMC5161 right now the brand new motor controller from trinamic
Great information and style. The Odrive is the madness.
Nice review of DIY options, Marco!
PS have you noticed Finnish company's Granite Device and their IONI drive? Those drives are quite flexible and can do almost everything of all the drives reviewed here in single model. Story of that company started from hobby CNC project, very much like yours :)
Interesting stuff
Thanks for sharing 😀👍
Thank you for building something real quick
Thank you for sharing your dilemma! :)
Great vid! & also could you please pass along the links for the gimbal motors and encoders?
Good job as always :)
The perfect video I was looking for! Danke! If I'm guessing the accent right.
Entertaining and informative. Sehr gut
love that kermit in the background at 10:12
Your raw humor is certainly a treat to ears. That concerned Kermit though.
The Kermit got me. Another excellent video!
I got plans to build my own 3D printer, also designing my own stepper motor, godly strong and insane accuracy and precision.
The design is still just in my head, and a lot of gearing is involved. And motion conversion, that I could use a bit of help with
Thank you, the tmc5160 is exactly what I need for my robot. Progress is moving so fast, I checked all the Stepper driver 6 month ago, and somehow missed the tmc5160. If I find somewhere time I make a driver like you suggested (no promise lot of other projects).
Waw, absolutely a great video !
5:45 got me cracking up. awesome
those gimbal motors are _gorgeous_
We just built a 6kW pulsed laser system at work to weld proprietary dissimilar metals. We're also using a 1kW psed laser to abate the weld edge of the metal.
I love this video great info and great voice
Well done sir very useful
Maybe I've finally found a use for all the BLDC motors I have lying around!
Excellent vid! Great information....and humour LOL
I can only understand 10% of what you talk about, but its really interesting and entertaining anyway.
No...i just thick!!
G510Gamer What accent?
res1492 That was unnecessary.
Ermm...thanks for caring but i really am thick!!...im 42 and just figured out how to tie my shoelaces yesterday
I think its a german accent, because i am Form Germany and i can hear it
This is pretty much the same conclusion I came to with the odrive vs a hybrid stripper system when considering for my next build. Laser time with the odrive.
Amazing video. What controller would you recommend If one wanted to work with a small brushless motor (like the blue beetle you show 8:31) ?
I just love your humor!
hmmmm, that click at 9:56 and yes, a great video, thankyou
Can you make a video specifically for the TMC5160?
I love your work, Marco. Thanks alot
This was interesting thank you. I'm curious though, why not add the encoder to a stepper, get the best of both systems?
0:25 RIP the oscilloscope !!!! smoke, smoke everywhere !!!
clear path servos are pretty nice and I believe they have decent holding strength
This is like an opensource RC ESC (speed controller)! The newest Hobbywing G2 capable speed controls like the Pro XE series has all the features you mentioned the Odriver does, such as dual hall sensor control, regenerative braking, etc. I wonder if the creator was a Hobbywing tech defector?! haha
NEED MORE REPS!!!
Really nice. 😊 You could use the laser machine to cut foam to make rc airplanes, like Peter Sripol. LOL
Giving you a like and a comment because you have the right amount of geek going on.
Thanks a lot! Awesome stuff! Made me think about using an ODrive for my DIY-lathe, but I think I'll stick to my chinese servos for that. If only they could be used with step/direction...
I think you will find step and direction is available
great content
good video!
Hi Marco, very interested in the ODrive, and its capability, However not with the hobby motors, bat a connection with the hybrid stepper/ Servo style motor. do you think its possible to these aforementioned motors from tho ODrive?
Regards Stiggie
the video thumbnail shows an awesome BW-image of an encoder disk,
that can explain the stepping sequence, and microstepping but also explain binary counting.-but you didn't show it in the video ?
I'm seeing some more usable TMC2160-based stepper driver modules on Aliexpress now. Looks like they're new, although I'm sure it'll be hard to get one for a few weeks due to the whole, uh, quarantine thing.
Wow ! Ben Krasnow is in the House ! I made my own drivers, very simple schematics, for my first and second CNC's, in the late 90's, before eBay, Hehehe! My next CNC's will be a little PCB mill/LED laser engraving and a robust CNC router; this video gave me a good solution for the last one, with thick steel frame like my second CNC, maybe 400x400 mm, to use in wood, aluminium and steel, using soft passes and refrigeration. What is your goal ? Thanks for sharing !
WHAT!! did you just burn your scopes LCD?? Special effects?
Verry verry verry good quality video!!!
Awesome!!!!
@Marco Reps, What do you mean by medium-sized motors @5:18 with the Trinamic? Was it the same hybrid motor from the "Blue Chinese Hybrid?" I'm trying to build something similar that will support 10Kg suspended weight. Any thoughts?
Thanks for this video. Just wondering if anyone has made a standalone TMC based driver module?
Yey! another vid!
So, this is another thing I bought that happens to be in video I watched from you.
Great stuff. I came to the same conclusion as you did and went Blue Hybrid, but I'm still looking for my motion controller. I've seen some nice one but they're $800 usd and up. I would like to go full 3d if at all possible but the cost is an important factor. Any suggestions... Any possibility of doing the same type article with motion control boards. Again thank you so very much for the article.
thanks for sharing your experience
can you advise me which alternative solution would be available for a high power servo motor (over 3kw)?
BR
At this point I'm really interested in integrating three of those hybrid servo drives into my 3D printer
Hobby rc motors are designed to spin very fast, especially those used in hobbyist aviation; do you think having a reduction transmission, probably a harmonic or hypocycloidal for almost no backlash and efficiency, the setup would have holding torque? Having the encoder after the reduction transmission could also improve accuracy.
Putting the the motor through a worm and spur gear would get rid if back drive and solve the holding torque issue. Then could put the encoder after the gear system as well. The gears would have to interface perfectly for no backlash however.
closed loop stepper is actually a good choice. all servos has very bad holding torque in compare so it's not because "not tuned".
even fine tuned proper servo motor must be next size up to have holding torque similar to stepper. (nema23 stepper = nema34 servo)
lol. you made a video about the RS RTB2004 and I thought damn what a cool scope but way to expensive for a poor student like me. So I wanted to look what scope my favorite technik youtuber uses in Daily Use. But I almost fell of my chair when I see the Price of this Monster. So I think this won´t be my first DSO :D Have to look for something cheaper. Great Video by the way. love your style.
Hi, Are you still happy with the Chinese closed loop stepper? We are thinking about to buy a few for an industrial environment application replacing the regular steppers
masterpiece
I used a lot of those chinese closed loop stepper at work and i have mixed feeling. On one hand they are very convenient but in the other hand the factory tuning is not suitable for all uses.
For example, the PID that control the feedback, can (and will) cause oscillation and imprecise positioning on fast movements due to overshoot, the auto tuning of the power is so hit and miss that i discovered that the best solution i to disable it (even when it's disabled it seem to set its parameters at boot resulting in a motor that does not have consistent torque between boots).
All of those problems can be solved configuring the parameters but good luck in sourcing the correct software for your specific controller (even the manufacturer can't send me a working version of the software that's not in chinese and untranslatable).
BTW they seem to be all manufactured (or cloned) by a company named LeadShine and they even exist in the more convenient integrated form with the driver mounted on the side of the motor.
I have some controllers with the chip marking readable, if you want some info on the chip i can send you a photo
you could just upload the images to imgur.com/
so we could all see the info. :)
11:18 Famous last words
Amazing
09:40 had me in tears 😂😂😂
1:12 this sounds comes from stepper motor feddback vibrration?
ganz gutes video
Hi Marco, newer subscriber here. Love the information and humor! My simple brain has been wanting to make a rotary table for years now (for 3D scanning, maybe some video/photo on the rare occasion, but mostly because it'd be damn cool to learn/have one). But its to hard. Perhaps a pro like yourself could show me... da way!
Is it possible to have a cheap(ish) device thats CNC controlled to be able to do things like you mention in this video but for a rotary turntable style? Eg do 12 stops around one turn with a pause of 12seconds at each stop. with some kind of ability to make it transition from each turn at a certain speed so as to not "dislodge" something mounted via gravity on the table? And all manner of different ways one may want to make something rotate... stop.. rotate? :)
Would LOVE a video on doing this. I'd love a servo motor because.. well duh. but the programming side of it is just to much for me.. assuming it would at all be possible? Where's the Google Store App for this dammit! ;)
It's not too difficult, but you got a learning curve ahead, if you don't know background. I guess like with everything, if you know it, it's easy.
3 dollar arduino controlling stepper driver (any step-dir), which drives the stepper powered rotary table. Arduino has stepper libraries available (start-stop acceleration, speed, distance etc), so it's just few lines of code to get it all moving.
Mach3 is cheap and 'simple', and you (meaning I) could hand code some G-code to do what you say. I am not too far advance from you, but after you understand G-code not too difficult.
Hi Marco, I have used stepper motors with encoders and gear motors with encoder on the motor shaft. The later gives you very precise control over the movement as the gearbox translates 1 revolution of the motor shaft into 1/100 of a revolution on the gearbox shaft and if you have a resolution of 48 steps on the encoder you already get 4800 encoder steps for one revolution. Have you considered such gear motors? They have much more holding power and power in general and use less amps. They are used a lot in robots. Regards, Marcus from Heidelberg
Not considered yet, but I definitely will now! Thank you from Hannover :)
What voltage are you driving those gimbal motors? 22V?
Neat!