Which Motor Type is the Best Generator? || DC, BLDC or Stepper? (Experiment)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ส.ค. 2018
- Best Prototype Choice ($2 for 10 PCBs): jlcpcb.com
Previous video: • Random/Unscripted Q&A ...
DC & BLDC Motor video: • Electronic Basics #18:...
Stepper Motor video: • Electronic Basics #24:...
VESC video: • VESC (Best Open Source...
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Websites which were shown in the video:
odriverobotics.com/#odrive
www.thingiverse.com/thing:110...
In this video I will conduct a small experiment in order to show you whether the DC, BLDC or Stepper Motor is best suited as a generator. Along the way we will learn a bit about the theory of those motors and realize why a gearbox can be an important part of a generator setup. Let's get started!
Thanks to JLCPCB for sponsoring this video
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Music:
2011 Lookalike by Bartlebeats
Ecstatic Wave, Jens Kiilstofte
machinimasound.com/music - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Anybody got a good source for BLDC Motor gearboxes?
no
GreatScott! I made 220v dc with a printer stepper motor and a full bridge rectifier
GreatScott! I shall say Aliexpress
3d printer / einfach drucken
how does an AC get infinite power?
As a mechanical engineer, I love your videos. Just simple enough to make sense to my little brain, but complicated enough to give me new ideas.
I hear 'Full bridge rectifier' as 'FOOL BRIDGE RECTIFIER' lol that too in caps :P thanks electro boom :D
Nah, Big Clive has it right, Full Bridge Rectum Fryer
Tech Guy Charlie hi
I find electroboom to be too cynical and a bit of an ass. He claims everything is fake even when the basic principles behind some ideas are legit if not fully functioning. The guy may know some stuff but personally I find he talks out of his ass to inflate his own ego versus trying to educate people.
@@joepoelmans5910 sounds like this guy believes in free energy
@@TeamFortress2Iscool Someday we may find a way to take energy from the atmosphere and get close to free energy but like I said just because it aint likely doesnt mean these guys arent onto something and Electroboom is the same type of cynical that holds back breakthroughs
There are two more ways to check which one is the best generator:
- By shorting motor wires and manually spinning the shaft, the more resistance you have turning it, the more power it generates.
- The electroboom way: just put motor wires in your mouth and spin the shaft, the more painful motor is the best generator : )
That's definitely something Mehdi would actually do. 😂
after the second step either you are dead or lost your sense of taste
@mabedinia4 If you manually turn the shaft, the risk is almost null to get hurt
4:12 FULL BRIDGE RECTIFIAA!!!!!!!!
great rectiifireee
it will burn your ass...LOL
ABID Inc. It‘s not a single diode...
It's not a single diode rectifia,it's a Fool bridge Rectifiaa
Full bridge rectumfryer
Wrong channel broo
Just completed the break-in period and so far the unit is operating perfectly th-cam.com/users/postUgkxOTeIs0vv4_9B5hsmnLsk9r930uDQLu_Y . I was amazed by just how quiet this little guy is. I kept having to walk down the driveway to the generator to make sure it was still running. In fact, the most annoying noise coming from the set-up is a high-pitched chirping coming from the pressure regulator on the propane line. I suppose it's possible my other propane-powered generator's pressure regulator is making the same noise, but the generator itself is so loud I've never noticed it. Build quality so far is excellent. My only nit is the service panel is a little tricky to remove. I feel like I might break off one of the plastic tabs when bending it back. I probably just need to work out the technique, so will not hold it against Champion.Next week I intend to fully load the unit to charge a large battery pack and will update this review if there's any problem (3000W continuous load vs a rated 3100W capacity while using propane). Absent any trouble there, I'm 100% pleased with this purchase.
Great Scott! I made some discoveries after watching your video and playing around with a DIY windmill for driving garden lights.
The efficiency of a stepper as a generator, can be somewhat improved by using a three-phase rectifier instead of a double full diode bridge. This is because a three phase rectifier uses 6 diodes instead of 8!
Other than that I found that DIY diode bridges do not perform as well as packaged ones, maybe im just using some bad diodes...
Thanks Scott! Your explanations are clear, accurate and really help in understanding what's going on. Much appreciated! Love your channel.
I cant thank you enough, this is going to help me pass my DT gcse this is so helpful thank you sosososososooo much i love this video!
I don't longer go to school, but im still learning from the new generations at 50 years i keep asking myself how come i didn't think about the Joule thief
before lol thats one the best thing of the human been NEVER STOP LEARNING, NEVER STOP DISCOVERING WHILE INVENTING.
_FUULLLLL BRID..._ *sechspuls Brückenschaltung*
@@dercncplaner He is
Jo
EVEN FULLER BRIDGE RECTIFIER
...ᵒʳ 'ᵉᶠᵇʳ' ᶠᵒʳ ˢʰᵒʳᵗ.
The general conclusion might be right, but what the biggest flaw was in this analysis is that you did not use a variable load. All these motor types want to put out a certain voltage according to their speed and a certain current according to their torque. If you dont draw the appropriate current for a given rotation speed, you are either drawing too little current and not much of the available energy is really converted into electrical power whereas mechanical friction is not reduced. Or you are drawing too much current and your winding losses are bigger than they should be. Each motor has an optimal current draw depending on speed en motor constant, but if you use a power resistor you effectively fix the current for each voltage, meaning that this is partially an experiment testing what motor constant is best suited for using with the fixed resistor. Therefore you should ideally have a dc-dc converter in order to transform your load to that of the optimal value as seen by your generator.
You are right!
you should do a whole vide on the Odrive. the things it is capable of are insane. The idea of using a BLDC motor as a stepper with the accuracy of a stepper and the torque of a BLDC is pretty cool.
Love these videos GreatScott. Keep up the good work 😀
Enjoyable experiment, but I disagree with your conclusion. A gearbox is rarely a good option for a generator project, it wastes power and makes noise. The real answer is to disassemble and re-wind the BDLC motor for a much lower kV and this also opens the possibility of changing from star to delta winding, which may suit a charge controller for a wind turbine better. Idea for your next video perhaps..??!
I'm a little confused on how the gearbox works in reverse.
so that's the only reason why the dc had a higher output?
LoL... wind turbines uses gearbox as well :/
Solution is motor multipole rotor. Low-RPM generators are often multipole, including automotive alternator, which has about 10 poles.
That's reason why stepper works so well, because it's basically multipole BLDC motor
I disagree, rewinding a Bldc by hand is not worth the minuscule efficiency difference between stepper motors.
4:37 if you see as German an English video and hear there suddenly a German word :)
Thanks for this!... I was just about to run the same kind of testing for my wind turbine project. Now I don't need to! One thing I have discovered about stepper motors (which I've been using... was considering a BLDC but after your video, no need) is that a NEMA23 generates a lot more power than a NEMA17 at low RPM's. I'm getting 9 watts from my wind turbine at the moment in field tests. I believe the reason that steppers work so well is because they have a kind of "magnetic gearing" because of the 'teeth' on the stator and poles that effectively multiplies the number of real coils. It's all about the dB/dt. (change in magnetic flux over time)
This is perfect just what I needed to see! I am putting a motor on a wind turbine I am designing and spinning the motor with the turbine will turn it into a generator and I wanted to know what motor to use! Perfect timing
Hey, I think that the DC motor is easiest to use in a beginner's project simply because it already outputs DC and that parts to couple the shaft are easy to find.
GreatScott!
I would like an episode of DIY or buy generators.
Thanks for doing this, I don't have an oscilloscope. Looks like getting much energy out of these small motors is difficult. I will look to my solar panel for trying to generate DC power.
This was something i was really curious about, thanks!
jaja, die sechs-puls-brückenschaltung.
wer kenns sie nicht...😂👍
but as always: fantasic video!
mine ing hab ich auch bemerkt
#aura
@@thedavidcraft8033 :D
Moin
Ich kenns
Brother you are really greatman
He is really German
Love the videos! Although I have no idea what's going on most of the time, you were still able to keep me interested and entertained! Good work!
Exactly the type of video I was looking for! Thanks
Its strange to see the BLDC having such a low efficiency, since they are basicly the same type of generators used in big power stations. They should be able to reach efficiencies up to 99%. Here are 2 Ideas what when wrong:
1) The rectifier diodes give a huge loss due to their forward bias voltage. Around 1.4V lost on the diodes. If we go with the 2V Output Voltage that means roughly 3.4V were at the input, which gives a huge efficiency boost. But its still relatively low. why?
2) The mechanical losses are huge in this system, especially with a gearbox. A good test to see how big these losses are is to disconnect the electrical load and then record the power consumed. If you put 6.8W in with the electric load attached, but say 4W without the load, you have mostly mechanical losses which needs to be taken into account.
In principle most motors can be modelled to a good approximation with an a friction element which power loss is proportional to the shaft speed, an ideal generator which converts the rotational power to electrical power (to be precise: it generates an output voltage based in the input speed and generates an input breaking torque based on the output current) and an internal resistance to model the electrical losses, mostly only depending on current. If you vary the load while keeping the shaft speed constant you can estimate this internal resistance (by taking measurements at different currents and recording the voltage). Same goes for the mechanical losses by using a fixed electrical current sink (to keep the electric losses constant, even zero current aka open circuit works here) and looking at the input power. By performing all these steps in various configurations (with generator, without generator, with load, without load, etc) you should be able to get all parameters (mechanical losses P/w, motor constant k, electrical losses R) for both motors/generators.
Also it might be possible to get a "dumb" esc (one which does not measure current but just uses the BEMF) to trick it into behaving as a generator-controller. So instead of taking current from the supply to turn the motor it would slow down the motor but feeding back current into the supply. That way you eleminate the diode losses and have a more reasonable DC voltage level.
I think it's because the rpm he span it at was was too slow. It was no way near its maximum efficency point
a VESC can actually act as an Active MOSFET rectifier. The only downside is that the VESC needs initial Bus voltage to power up before the generator is producing power. I've done some experiments on my TH-cam channel
You are not getting a BLDC to 99% efficiency
@@btoiscool The big generators in power plants might disagree
@@gotbread2 those aren't getting that high efficiency either. Best you are getting is around 90-96%, depending on the system. And that's a really well designed system
Hi Scott,
seeing this, btw a great video as always, I was wondering: how could you control the output of a generator in a DIY project? What if the load isn't constant?
Voltage Regulator?
Loving the outro enthusiasm!
Great video sir! Informative and direct! Love it!
I use the Gimbal brushless motors as these range in the 30-50kV range. I use these on my Lenz2 3D printed wind turbine, and at 150rpm with a 5:1 belt drive I get something in the order of 30 Volts. I am currently using the Hobbyking 6508 Gimbal motor which is about 30 euros. If I want more it gets quite a bit more expensive at 50-90 euros for a 85 or 90mm stator.
I also drive these with a full bridge rectifier for 3 phase into a grid tie inverter.
The drawback of the gimbal motors is the high resistance of ~10 Ohm, so you need more then 20 Volts to get decent power out. So far I've seen a peak of 34Watts.
Nice gob. I always learn sooooooooooooo much from you! :-) Keep it up!
Finally, a video that I've waiting for so long!!
9:33 Yup, that is the right one!
Fantastic, dude! Hand crank project coming? 🤔
Maybe
try it with supercaps
GreatScott! i will watch that or maybe you can use a bike with a big heavy flywheel so the load won't slow you down easily.
Nice and informative. I'm really surprised to see how much power was generated from the stepper!
Thank you for this great video.
The shaft coupling made by 3D printing is not suitable cause it does not help when the two motors axes are not aligned, while the original metal one does because it has these cracks. Because of this the vibration happens when you connected the brushless motor.
Lol ich verstehe fast kaum was (nicht weil du Englisch redest) aber es ist interessant was du da machst :D
Nice video like always, but why you can not use the regenerative breaking of the vesc to calculate the power that produce?
Alberto cornejo yep I too had that question
Alberto cornejo It’s a nice video, no doubt about it but, maybe he’s not a fan, most probably due to efficiency.
I did some tests many years ago with brushed tape drive motors, and simply connecting one to the other allowed one to drive the other at better than 10:8 rpm, so ten turns of the generator gave 8 turns of the identical motor from close to zero rpm, higher than 100rpm it reached 9:1. Those motors were about as good a any brushed motor can get, and I didn't measure torque loss, but it still proved the efficiency to be close to perfect. I also made a small charger system for a stationary engine using a BLDC motor, and got surprisingly good current and voltage (~60 watts) with 3600 rpm speed.
Great video as always.
I would love to see you make a cheap DIY Arduino based handheld console.
"would have rotated with an rpm of around 7310" thats quite specific
I don’t know how I got here.
I was a chemE major.
I like physics.
I like making things.
Now all I do is watch videos on TH-cam about electricity and motors.
Incredibly Helpful, Thanks
I've be so excited to see it when I was in school ^^
Yeah! I love your videos! Keep up the good work dude
Thanks mate
GreatScott! Anytime matey
4:39 sorry, but I think you pronounced the full bridge rectifier wrong.. it‘s called „ *FUUUULL BRIDGE RECTIFIERRR* “. Anyways... great video!
Lol
The moment ElectroBOOM liked the video
Felix kfm why do I not get this lmao
Very informative video! Liked! Curious if you can answer a quick question. What is the significance of the stepper motor’s coil resistance rating? Does a higher number for resistance mean it’s harder to turn - for example a 32 Ohms motor would require more force to spin than one rated at 1.5 Ohms? Thanks!
Hello scott I can ask you to make a controller for inverter motors of washing machine and if you could explain the operation of the controller and the hall sensor, they are very sensitive pieces to get in the trash and are very efficient engines for multiple uses, I dedicate myself to repair plates of washing machines and I'm trying to make a controller to test inverter engines but I do not come with the knowledge I follow you all the videos you are a genius !!! I admire you and I thank you for all the knowledge that you share from Argentina greetings
Gimme da meetaa
Oh wait,wrong channel,
by the way ,great and clear explanation ,thumbs up from me
M Ram Aneeshwar FUUUULL BRIDGEE RECTIIIIFIERRRRR
Ask this to electroboom
5:05 is me dealing with life problems
Your videos are the best!
Man I LOVE your videos
"so I downloaded another shaft coupler"
Future is really here guys
In 2040:
Mom: what are you doing son?
Me: I'm downloading a new CPU, I'll print it later
So basically, go big(in rpm) , or go home.
The Stepper motor seems to be the best option simply due It's sheer number of poles.
Awesome. Informative. Great presentation.
@ Scott hello, can you please make a video on a way to store the generated power from the capacitors from a stepper motor to make a simple wind generator like you did with the solar panels?
I think a 2 phase AC motor would be the best. It is simple like a DC motor, but without mechanical losses or wear and tear.
5:10 Dude, why not just enlarge the hole to 8mm in software lol
Luka Voglar Because there are usually no sources, just STL so it's pretty hard to change it. 10 seconds of drilling vs 20 mins of developing own coupler, basic economics.
@@HungrysitesRu looks like someone forgot to take printing time into account.
@@HungrysitesRu It's literally a cylinder with a central hole and 4 lateral holes.. Even without downloading anything you can do it in 3 minutes in any CAD software, it's literally that simple :/
@@DarkQwerzar maybe he wanted to let us know that these types of 3d printer files are available on the internet or maybe sponsored.
Thanks buddy. Very helpful as usual
Hello Scott, nice and professionnal video ! for a 24v 10Amp wind turbine, which kind of motor would you recommand ? thanks.
Thank you electro boom;)
No problem ;-)
Y thank you
How is this video 22 hours old and it only showed now on notifications I'M SHOOK
Patreon supporters can watch the video a bit earlier.
André Páscoa patreon
Ohh interesting thanks xs
Great info! I use bldc motors in my rc cars, and want to learn and understand electric motors. Thanks!
I alwayas like your openion
Thanks for this knowledge
Love how we all also watch ElectroBoom.
lol
I agree with the conclusion, but your testing with a geared DC motor was a bad example, so the whole experiment was kinda unrelated to your final opinion...
Hadinos Sanosam yes, that muddied the waters. The other systems have losses from conversion to dc which the brushed motor doesn't. It's performance here was surprisingly bad.
This is really great video! Thanks!
Thank you that was great information
Though I have learned a lot from your channel, love watching all of your videos but now your videos are becoming more about failures and less of completed projects. I appreciate the effort though. Good for beginner hobbyist though.
Jawwad Sabir his basics videos are better than some of his project videos
What did you say at 4:36?
6 Puls Brückenschaltung
GreatScott! Any english name of it please?
6 pulse bridge rectifier?
Thanks :)
Hast du auch ein Deutschen Kanal?
I had a little play with stepper motors as generators. The best circuit for a motor with 2 coils i figured out is one bridge rectifier with both the coils in series connected instead of one. At the middle node of the coils connect a relative big, low esr, low voltage loss capacitor and connect the other end of that capacitor to plus or minus of the battery, depending on what you prefer. Instead of a full bridge rectifier for one coil (and then maybe putting the outputs in series), now each coil has its own two seperate pair of half bridge rectifiers (Delon circuit), what is somehow paralleled to each other. A pair of half bridge rectifiers puts the positive and negative part of the ac input in series and creates a virtual mass, while a full bridge rectifier puts them in parallel. That also means, if seperate diodes are used,... two coils of a stepper, each with a pair of half bridge rectifiers and caps and that in series, we can even reach >=4 times the voltage of a single full bridge rectified coil, reduce losses and parts we need. by using 6 diodes and 3 caps, it is possible to have two Delon circuits in series and parallel at the same time to make maximum usage of the two coils of a stepper. something to draw...
I don't understand some of these staff because i am commerce student.
But i love your every video and your experiment. I have so much interest in electronics.
Your videos safe me from the bordom of church 💯💯💯
David my parents
Why do you go to church? Some dude from out of this world wrote a love letter to all men with guidelines on how to not fudge up our lives and find the source of life itself, Jesus Christ. God born as man, to live a sinless life, to be an alter sacrifice, to pay for all the sin in the world. To save all mankind from evil, death suffering. Also to learn love and spread this message of hope to the world, Jesus died on the cross for our sins. We are free to know God now, personally.
@@RBlatch4d I never said church was bad there is a lot of people at the church didn't go to church when they were a teen....
5:14 *uses a drill to enlarge the holes instead of doing it in Tinkercad
*Me : NO GOD PLS NO NO.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
At work we call that "manual CAD"
@@jhwblender the issue it's that he doesnt know how to do it properly
Your an absolute savage with a highlighter pen...
Nice video!
Thanks for a comparison test of the three kind of motor to find the most efficient generator
The motors, windings, magnets ate too dissimilar for comparison.
agreed but it gives rise to a more indepth question , i would have thought a dc motor direct drive would be the least resistance , least electronic / highest output
It is unfair to ignore the mechanical loss of the gearbox. Stepper motor looks like a winner because it operates at low speed and virtually no mechanical loss. Perhaps you can use 2 identical motors, one as motor and another one as generator. If both shares the same energy conversion efficiency, x/100 and x/100, the total efficiency will be like n = (x/100)*(x/100) and x = √(10000n), ignoring rectifier loss. That way will be much more accurate.
I was wondering, would the heat generated in the motor affect its efficiency right? I did try to use some motors as generators, didnt remember which ones but I know some of them got quite hot and was wondering which motor generates more heat which could affect its efficiency. Thank you for the video!
Is there any way we can add some sort of alternator with a capacitor to the top of a quad copter to extend or maybe continuously power it. There has to be a way to use the down force of the wind from the props. Would love to get to the bottom of this been thinking about it for years.
4:12 you pronounced it wrong, it is FFFUUUULL BRIDGE RECTIFAYAAAA!!!!
Ich Habs mir schon bei deinem Akzent gedacht...
German engeneer 🤗
Nice video.
Have you thought of trying out different kinds of old equipment to see if it is possible to rebuildt it to a small vindmill ???
Example a fanmotor from a cielling fan, or a washing machine motor.
Just a thought :)
Thx for sharing.
Regards.
This is a good introduction, THUMBS UP !
I want more information about making a usable generator.
may I put a suggestion into the suggestion box ?
I want to power my ESP8266 garden sensors.
my thoughts are to use a cell phone power bank and charge that with solar and wind, then use it to power my ESP for weather data.
Gimme da scope plz
I always laugh when people think they discovered something, like attaching a motor to a generator and power back to motor for free energy.
listen bro you are not able to do thes things
if you made a free energy generator, send it to me so i can prove you it's false, OR, send it to electroboom, then you will feel humiliated for your whole life lol
Clearly no one understood what you said
Bro it just the prototype of what he want to do....are you expecting to built a windmill for a TH-cam video?
no, because it's physically IMPOSSIBLE to build a "free energy generator"
go watch electroboom's video on it ffs
I love your videos, GreatScott!. I have to ask, why did you 3d print a coupler and enlarge its hole instead of just drilling the aluminum coupler?
Are you being serious right now....? If you are then, do you struggle mentally? he had ONE coupler, if he enlarged the hole then it wouldn't work with 2 out of the 3 motors he is doing experiments with. And these involve switching between them multiple times, so you are seriously suggesting adapting the one coupler he has in order to work with 1 out of the 3 motors. Your lack of logic is astounding
Wow, thanks for sharing 😀👍
SECHS PULS BRÜCKENSCHALTUNG
*RECHT - E - FIRE INTENSIFIES* 🔥
Very informative
Thanks
Thank you 😊 sir . All videos are awesome
By chance is there a way to 3d print a gear box that could spin the bldc motor much faster with a low input rpm? I see lots of videos about people creating these crazy gear ratios. Would that help or hurt because you loose efficiency in the gears ?
6 Plus Brückenschaltung 😊 die Aussage war schon überraschend bin ja nur englisch von dir gewohnt. Sehr schön weiter so machen 👍
Hi GreatScott, as always Your videos are among the best tutorial videos on the internet!Thank You! Question: "Is it possible to use a micro wave turntable motor , it operates at 230 volts AC and if not , is there any modifications needed in order to make it a generator?
I think it would work if it wasn't so hard to turn...
Many thanks for making this video..which motor works best for grinder & grass cutter?
Is it possible to use one of those motor is to power of pull string voice box if so which one do you recommend?
Another Great Project😍😍😍
I have one questions, I saw your video on HD motors used as a encoder, and start ot think about a use of it as a generator? Do you think that it is feasible idea?
Awesome video, learned a lot
Hi Great Scott. Awesome video as always. Can you perhaps make a video explaining how to calculate power consumption of electronic devices using an arduino please.