Ah the introductory picture of a MAN OUTSTANDING IN HIS FIELD (of generators). Reminds me of a picture in a newspaper of a realtor standing in a farmyard The caption said 'A man outstanding in his field'. Big thank you for your great videos - Rod
Quite an historically important industrial engine the Perkins 6.354. People forget that globally it was the Cummins 6bt of the 1960/70's. 👍 Trucks, tractors, combines, forklifts, wheel loaders, generators, pumps, compressors, boats - you name it! If you needed 100-130hp, over a million made worldwide. The Lucas Cav injection pump was the weakest link, as it was with any engine that had them 😂.
the thing leaking on the left side of the injection pump is the automatic timing advance piston. Before you get too crazy, check the 2 bolts that hold it onto the pump body, they tend to loosen and it leaks. If not it may just need to reseal it. They engine runs well it sounds like. The blue smoke is normal, those 354 perkins werent a clean burning engine but they were bullet proof. We have some on farms with over 12000 hours running irrigation pumps and they just keep going. You are on the right track with the fuel pump leaking from transfer pump, common problem on them.
On the channel "Watch Wes Work", Wes had a fuel pump just like the one you have there rebuilt. I think he said the place that did it was Area Diesel. They also rebuilt the injectors. Just thought I'd pass it along. Hope this helps.
Frank Perkins founded Perkins Engines in 1932 in Peterborough UK. They still exist today and are a leading supplier of diesel engines globally. I believe they were bought out in the late 90's by Caterpillar. They are a leading employer in the Peterborough area. Before I moved to France 17 years ago I lived in Stamford some 20 minutes from Their production plant. I was lucky enough to get a tour of the factory over 30 years ago. Huge by UK standards and very impressive. Way back then in Stamford we had Mirrlees Blackstone another diesel engine manufacturer well known globally at the time. Over the years there were mergers / buyouts with Lister, GEC, MAN etc. Way more than I can remember clearly...... Whilst living in the UK I worked on two RAF bases which used pairs of GE locomotive engines to run standby generators in case of national grid power failures. They were V16 quad turbo diesels producing around 1600 hp a piece at 750 rpm. On a typical test run (on a saturday) we would generate a megawatt for a few hours. Nice! From memory the engines were about 30 feet long.
I worked on a towboat back 50 years ago that had two 16 cylinder GMC diesels on it that produced 1600 hp at about 750 hp. They had were identical to the engines on locomotives, big noisy engines, two stroke engines with four superchargers each. They ran wide open almost all the time.
Once again you got yourself a large lawn mower engine. Anxious to see you get it all fixed up and running smoothly. Wished my van sounded that good. Thanks for the videos.
Great to see a Perkins on the channel! If you find parts sourcing an issue then I believe Massey Ferguson used this engine in Combine Harvesters for many years in the USA, as well as in tractors/boats etc. Otherwise have a look for your local Sparex supplier, they supply aftermarket parts like seal kits and transfer pumps etc for not too much cost.
Couple of things for you i have worked on many of these Generators with 6354 engines in standby applications with CAV DPA pumps, these tend to get a build up of varnish and tend for components not to freely move creating excessive speed droop /poor performance of the governor, a strip clean is what's generally required , there is also a strainer in the end of the pump of which i am sure you would know about and the lip seal can leak at the drive end, the other issue is these Standby Generators tend to have aged fuel in them of which i think adds to gumming /varnishing of components, thus overall poor governor performance.
Was thinking the same thing myself about whether it had been stood for a long time and if the fuel metering rod/pin (under the rectangular cover) and/or it's mechanism might be a bit "gummed" up.
As a diesel mechanic, time to rebuild the injection pump( bad shaft seal or worn out pump bushings can cause diesel in the crank case,) replace or rebuild the lift pump and pop test all of the injectors.
I have the same engine in my boat I bought it many years ago it was a standby engine for a bin lorry. These engines do suffer from fuel pump diaphragm rotting out, they also suffer with injector pump governor issues a quick clean up and recalibrate of pump fixes the issue, but having fuel leaks will not help as it allows air into fuel this will also allow governor to be unstable as it runs in fuel. I also noticed your engine does not have the heater glow plug setup. It run from the return line of the fuel filter as a fuel feed this is feed up the centre of the glow plug when you use it you have to wind it over then heat it.. as for an engine there Bullit proof they give very very little issues as long as there serviced like any other engine.. you can still buy parts from Perkins in the Uk for this engine, as a boat engine it’s outstanding plods along all day long not to noisy as it’s under the deck and exhaust has water pumped down it to cool rubber pipe so it’s much quieter
I can't remember if it was this engine or another one, but I remember on one of them you were trying to adjust the governor. Your problem that time was that you were only adjusting the outer tensioner. That merely moves the position of the frequency band (limit adjuster). If you adjust the inner tensioner that will change the width of the hysteresis loop (range adjuster). You need to get that right before you can adjust the outer tensioner. Edit: On this engine there must be some other mechanism, but they all have to have separate range and limit adjusters.
Personally, knowing those CAV pumps, just rebuild the pump, those engines are bomb proof. If you need parts for a perkins, i use my local Massey tractor dealer, just about everything was perkins in a massey furgy at one point, from 3 cylinders to V8's. If i remember right, the governors in those 354's were a sliding rack with a spring that wasnt the most accurate from new, just on the verge of good enough... Dont give up on her.. Never seen one loaded up like that before
The pressure differances are probably down to a little rust forming on the valves and seats if its been standing still for a long time .I would advise you to get the inj. pump done at the same time as it is probably gunged up inside,again because of standing still. the internal governor gets gummed up and does,nt move freely which is very important on a generator.Set the generator at 50hz for the most stable power flow.
Neat unit, that. Good old Perkins. Those diesels were all over the place in Massey Ferguson and other tractors as I recall. Can't wait to see how things improve with a little rebuild on that injection pump especially as that'll include the mechanical governor.
All the engine and fuel pump is/was local to me. I made lots of parts for the CAV line as an apprentice in the late 70[s Later in life had 1truck with 6354 and 2 JCB diggers with the same unit.
Empire generators were built for the budget price market, like Generac etc. Lucas mechanical governors aren’t the best for generator applications. Even with a well adjusted mechanical Governor you’ll be lucky to get 5% droop. Upgrading to an electronic isochronous Governor would be a vast improvement.
yes exactly right, i have a 152 on a 20 Kw 3 phase which had a Stanadyne pump, lovely tight govenor on that but broke the input shaft so swopped it out for a CAV as i couldnt afford a replacement Stanadyne at the time..the CAV run lovely but wouldnd govern worth a toss so i stripped the pump, removed all the mech govenor mechanism and refitted it to an electronic govenor..its now perfect whatever the load
To be pefectly honest I would probably pay more for that genset with the original brainboxery working than I would with a modern digital equivalent that is 250% more failure prone and disposable. It may not seem like it on face value given the problems this unit has, but the fact that it's still able to make power is testament to the durability and longevity of the old school components. I would restore the original control system to proper working order instead of replacing it outright. To me it'd be a downgrade to put modern electronics in there. I'd rather have a generator that's a little off in the rhubarb 50+ years on than have one that stops making power entirely after just a decade or two.
Diaphragm on the lift pump is the normal way for fuel to enter the crankcase.The pump is driven by a skew gear from the camshaft.Its an easy fix.Companies like Agriline,Vapormatic etc do all replacement parts.They supply new shortblocks for the 236 but not the 354.Perkins 236 was their most common engine.
If you go to western truck repairs , he has a video pulling a pump apart I don't recall if it a cav pump or not. I only intend on giving you some insite .
Love the Lucas CAV rotary distributor pumps, but they have soooo many parts to keep track of when rebuilding. The bit thats leaking looks to be the cold start device (advances the timing) it leaking could certainly throw things off a wee bit but I do believe its the governor itself that is at fault.
check out a Napier Deltec for a UK design.... I soak cylinders with Marvel melts carbon out after a few days . Then start after clearing oil out . Probably never had load and just ran high idle for its life. At DOE AEC we had to run monthly under 75% load. We had 50 gensets from all makes 1960s to new. Excellent thanks.
if there is diesel fuel entering thecrancase, then in my opinion, the fuel might be evaporating causing some of the "blowby". The other thing, is that if the engine was designed in the UKJ, as I suspect ir was, the rpm would have been dsigned for 1500 (50Hz). I used to run Rolls Royce engines (750kVA) units designed for 60Hz, and when they were rtun at 50Hz, they vibrated just as the control box vibrated. just a thought, Harmonic vibrations are worthy of consideration. The "miss" could either be an injecto or the pump. I would try an injector first. the pump is unlikely to differentiate between cylinders as it started very quickly with no build up of fuel pressure.
the running rough could be valve lash and or crook injector nozzle dribbling in the cylinder ( also might explain diesel in oil). Perkins of that era had a good reputation in tractors. Other issues indicate that the injector pump needs a service.
After sorting the leaks if still runs bad I would check the distributor drive to the DPA fuel pump. Technically the transfer pump is on the end (top) of the DPA. This generates round 60 -80psi. The diaphragm pump on the other side is a low pressure lift pump
sounds like it needs a good tune up ,, i've never yet seen a 354 perkins that ran smooth ,, I've got one transplanted into a ford ranger ,,it was completely rebuilt and had blowby from day 1 still runs beautiful just like it did 10 years ago , but it never ran perfectly smooth for whatever reason ,,mine is a 4-354 but i have worked on 6-354 engines as well ,,that injection pump is a headache if it goes wrong ,,, lots of these engines found their way into massey fergusson tractors , generators weren't so common but water pumps and farm machines like hay swathers and smaller combines ,they were simple and reliable and pretty easy to work on
Sourcing parts should be easy, as these are the same engines in the London bus routemaster double deckers. Also Perkins is Rolls Royce, so the parts are readily available from that source as well. I've looked after several perkins powered gen sets over the years.
@@kindkoun bit of confusion I think. AEC was or became part of rolls Royce. Don't know about the diesel side, but aero was I think. Perkins is cat owned almost 100%sure. Correct me if I'm wrong. Just not sure.
@@bigteddy66 You are right Caterpillar owns Perkins now. In the 80's Perkins bought Rolls Royce diesel engine division and after that they were swallowed by Caterpillar. I don't know if AEC was part of Rolls Royce before they stopped making engines. On a side note Rolls Royce at the time wanted to concentrate on aero engines. They owned 50 percent of BMW aero engines, bought their partner out and gave their prestigious automobile marque to BMW! I believe the B52 re-engine program involved one of the BMW/Rolls Royce models.
In the fuel injector pump there is a very fine filter that is prone to blockage ,also the fuel lift pump diagram prone to failure, the can next to the injection pump ,not sure it’s requirement,they are a very dirty engine inside,also the valves do we’re into the valve seats giving compression problems
I like your vidéos . I learn a lot . I am Genset addict !❤ Îm Max from belgium And I have a MEP 802 A modified to 50Hz like we have in Europe. Kind regards
Perkins United Kingdom will have all the information on your engine. I had a Genset like yours with a Aussie brand name. The CAV pumps are bad for governors, there the throw out weights design. Send it for a overhaul so it gets recalibrated and it’s internal pump redone:-)
Its wet stacking also, those Perkins engine like to be worked hard an for long periods of time, might have a bad injector. Also could be sucking some air in were all those fuel leaks are.Oliver tractors used those in there tractors as well an they were work horses
Check the valve clerance. Engine that stays for long time it will have problems with valve clerance. Adjust them and after 10h of work check them again. But the blowby its a problem, can be the fuel on the oil.
If you were in the UK i would say instantly injection pump and injectors out and away for a good service solve most of those issues those lift pumps are quite good at leaking . Yes thoses injectors need a good service forget the test they need doing as will the pump
I was wondering where we would be going after the big old Roiline/Onan. This reminds me, we still have a Perkins 4-154 to marry up with an equally dated Stamford C20-B generator end.
I worked in the diesel injection trade for 25 years, this injection pump probably has worn governor parts. A good rebuild of pump and injectors including bench testing will help. There is no external droop, or sensitivity, adjustment. Also no max fuel adjustment. You can only set the max speed and low idle. There are several wear points that effect the droop, or rpm drop, when load is applied or removed. Replacing these parts will give you the result you need.. Make sure to use a reputable shop, with a test bench..
Sounds like the engine is running smoothly, but it's hard to tell with the low pass filter on. I agree with a previous poster on the fact of keeping the old brain box. Just rebuild it with modern caps and you will be good to go.
If that NA 6354 is only about 87 kw and you are trying to draw 40kw with a load I wonder why it drops off a bit L.O.L. That industrial engine is probably governed for flat out, more like a combine engine where a tractor or truck engine has a bit different governor that allows it to vary fuel more with load changes. We have one of those pumps on our 6372 in our combine it was peeing fuel out everywhere including in the timing gears. I watched Bundy bears video and got a good brand kit from ebay and did the rebuild it's running far better now than it ever did even without new internals and a recalibration. so you might get it with injectors redone as well if they need it. It might be worth changing all the rubber sealing rings on the fuel pipe fittings to if it has that style instead of brass olives. The rubbers go hard and start leaking or they don't tighten up and seal right letting them start to pull air. when i did a tractor rebuild some of the Perkins rubber rings updated to brass olive fittings through Agco part numbers. If the valves were set tight they may not seating quite right still with some damage after the reset I've seen it on several tractor heads, I seem to remember the settings are quite wide on them when they are right. Thanks for the video take care.
I think your expecting too much out of that engine, I work on them and have tons of small diesel engines, your governor may have come apart take the return line off the injection pump and see if there are small pieces of fiber clogging it, if that was the case though you wouldn't have any horsepower. I work mostly on Stanadyne pumps.
Over the pond,the engine is a perkin 6354,very good engine ,the engine was fitted in every thing made ,check the fuel pump per filter,prone to blockage,and the fuel pumps fail.
The 6,354 perkins, good old workhorse, 6 denotes the amount of cyls, 354 is the cu. Inch cyl capacity, if the lift pump diaphragm is leaking the fuel system would probably air lock and stop the engine, fuel could leak out of the drive end of the injector pump, worked these engines in trucks in the 70s,
Always wondered about this wouldn't it be cheaper to modernize this older but still decent equipment then replace like I get sometimes it's not worth the cost but other times it is
I have that same unit. I had replaced the injectors and solved that problem. You could try and have them cleaned and or rebuilt ? I had found a set cheap of ebay long back
If I saw the screen message correctly it mentions that you added a low-pass filter to lower the genset noise. The correct type of filter to lower low frequency noise (genset) is a high-pass filter. Doesn't make sense but that's the way filter networks work😀
I do think generators in North America have a harder time than in Europe, spinning up to 1800 erpm from cold has to be harder than our 1500erpm... Those DPA governors tend to wear when on light loads, they're only pressed metal plate..
Fuel leaking into the oil through the injection pump. oil cools and lubricates the injection pump and there's a seal that tends to fail in the fuel passes between the oil and the injection pump
Great engine the Perkins. I grew up around them. Dad was a diesel fitter for Massey Ferguson. He use to go on about the Rotary CAV pumps. Even as a kid I'd shake my head thinking " every other English engine manufacturer used inline injector pumps except these idiots" . Nonetheless a fantastic engine Perkins are but that Rotary injector pump is the weak point. Perkins parts are cheap. Any Tractor spares shop will have parts.
Had a t6.354m in a boat. 160 hp rated with the turbo and air to water aftercooler. She was a dirty girl under load. Anything over 2100 rpms and heavy load it smoked like a coal train.
The fuel pump leak will afect the internal fuel pressure pump and responce of pump You can strip most of this pump externals replace seals theres internal filter aswell on inlet fitting
If diesel is leaking out, air can get in. Could it be possible the injection pump is sucking air, pumping that to the injector and causing your misfire?
Nice to see the drought is over. For a time I thought you'd stopped making videos. They're really interesting so good luck for 22.
I am going to try to keep them coming! Thanks for watching!
Ah the introductory picture of a MAN OUTSTANDING IN HIS FIELD (of generators).
Reminds me of a picture in a newspaper of a realtor standing in a farmyard The caption said 'A man outstanding in his field'.
Big thank you for your great videos - Rod
Quite an historically important industrial engine the Perkins 6.354.
People forget that globally it was the Cummins 6bt of the 1960/70's. 👍
Trucks, tractors, combines, forklifts, wheel loaders, generators, pumps, compressors, boats - you name it! If you needed 100-130hp, over a million made worldwide.
The Lucas Cav injection pump was the weakest link, as it was with any engine that had them 😂.
we had one in chamberlain tractor with a turbo on it, heavy on fuel compared to cummins 6bt
Yep, those rotary pumps aren't the best. IIRC Perkins nomenclature is cylinders and swept volume, so this is a 6 hole 354cu.in/5.8L engine.
@@fixitdude74 They were, but remember they were in production for 20 years before the 6bt even left the draft board 👍
@@572Btriode Correct on the nomenclature. ☑
Yep I remember seeing them in tractors ALL the time.
Love those old vibrating reed frequency meters!
the thing leaking on the left side of the injection pump is the automatic timing advance piston. Before you get too crazy, check the 2 bolts that hold it onto the pump body, they tend to loosen and it leaks. If not it may just need to reseal it. They engine runs well it sounds like. The blue smoke is normal, those 354 perkins werent a clean burning engine but they were bullet proof. We have some on farms with over 12000 hours running irrigation pumps and they just keep going. You are on the right track with the fuel pump leaking from transfer pump, common problem on them.
Leak could be the diaphragm in the damper or the damper being loose as it is one of the two fittings holding the auto advance box to the cambox.
True Perkins excellent I have a few in all equipment 4 and 6 cylinders.
Old Forge Power in Pennsylvania has tons of used motors parts awesome source..
Over the pond it’s nice to see engines being diagnosed that we work with all the time,happy Xmas to you and your viewers.
On the channel "Watch Wes Work", Wes had a fuel pump just like the one you have there rebuilt. I think he said the place that did it was Area Diesel. They also rebuilt the injectors. Just thought I'd pass it along. Hope this helps.
Frank Perkins founded Perkins Engines in 1932 in Peterborough UK. They still exist today and are a leading supplier of diesel engines globally. I believe they were bought out in the late 90's by Caterpillar. They are a leading employer in the Peterborough area. Before I moved to France 17 years ago I lived in Stamford some 20 minutes from Their production plant. I was lucky enough to get a tour of the factory over 30 years ago. Huge by UK standards and very impressive. Way back then in Stamford we had Mirrlees Blackstone another diesel engine manufacturer well known globally at the time. Over the years there were mergers / buyouts with Lister, GEC, MAN etc. Way more than I can remember clearly......
Whilst living in the UK I worked on two RAF bases which used pairs of GE locomotive engines to run standby generators in case of national grid power failures. They were V16 quad turbo diesels producing around 1600 hp a piece at 750 rpm. On a typical test run (on a saturday) we would generate a megawatt for a few hours. Nice! From memory the engines were about 30 feet long.
Cheers..I have a few Perks and a JCB also.
I worked on a towboat back 50 years ago that had two 16 cylinder GMC diesels on it that produced 1600 hp at about 750 hp. They had were identical to the engines on locomotives, big noisy engines, two stroke engines with four superchargers each. They ran wide open almost all the time.
@@regunter6599 we had 4 v16-71 detroit Gensets 350kw at nuke plant .. noise was lethal.
Now one Cummins Onan 1 MW replaced all 4 .
Once again you got yourself a large lawn mower engine. Anxious to see you get it all fixed up and running smoothly. Wished my van sounded that good. Thanks for the videos.
"That's 4.5-5 hertz droop. That's unacceptable." Truer and wiser words were never spoken. You are amazing, my friend.
those tips on the injectors tell you a story
Great to see a Perkins on the channel! If you find parts sourcing an issue then I believe Massey Ferguson used this engine in Combine Harvesters for many years in the USA, as well as in tractors/boats etc. Otherwise have a look for your local Sparex supplier, they supply aftermarket parts like seal kits and transfer pumps etc for not too much cost.
You can send your injection pump to area diesel service. Might be able to help you out or make a video of your pump being rebuilt.
Couple of things for you i have worked on many of these Generators with 6354 engines in standby applications with CAV DPA pumps, these tend to get a build up of varnish and tend for components not to freely move creating excessive speed droop /poor performance of the governor, a strip clean is what's generally required , there is also a strainer in the end of the pump of which i am sure you would know about and the lip seal can leak at the drive end, the other issue is these Standby Generators tend to have aged fuel in them of which i think adds to gumming /varnishing of components, thus overall poor governor performance.
Those pumps aren't that good in governing when they are brand new. They are not exactly built for that application.
But better results should definitely be obtainable. Don't get me wrong.
Was thinking the same thing myself about whether it had been stood for a long time and if the fuel metering rod/pin (under the rectangular cover) and/or it's mechanism might be a bit "gummed" up.
Wish I lived next door to you...never have to worry about power outages and always cool toys to play with.
As a diesel mechanic, time to rebuild the injection pump( bad shaft seal or worn out pump bushings can cause diesel in the crank case,) replace or rebuild the lift pump and pop test all of the injectors.
Of course you are correct. changing the governer will fix the frequency challenge. I did not wait long enough in the film before I commented.
That engine sounds really good. Great find
I have the same engine in my boat I bought it many years ago it was a standby engine for a bin lorry. These engines do suffer from fuel pump diaphragm rotting out, they also suffer with injector pump governor issues a quick clean up and recalibrate of pump fixes the issue, but having fuel leaks will not help as it allows air into fuel this will also allow governor to be unstable as it runs in fuel.
I also noticed your engine does not have the heater glow plug setup. It run from the return line of the fuel filter as a fuel feed this is feed up the centre of the glow plug when you use it you have to wind it over then heat it.. as for an engine there Bullit proof they give very very little issues as long as there serviced like any other engine.. you can still buy parts from Perkins in the Uk for this engine, as a boat engine it’s outstanding plods along all day long not to noisy as it’s under the deck and exhaust has water pumped down it to cool rubber pipe so it’s much quieter
The compression values for the metric viewers:
Cylinder 1 - 360psi = 24.8bar
Cylinder 2 - 340psi = 23.4bar, 345psi = 23.8bar, 350psi = 24.1bar
Cylinder 3 - 355psi = 24.5bar
Cylinder 4 - 300psi = 20.7bar, 330psi = 22.8bar, 350psi = 24.1bar
Cylinder 5 - 365psi = 25.2bar
Cylinder 6 - 365psi = 25.2bar
This means all cylinders are within ~1bar of each other from lowest to highest.
I can't remember if it was this engine or another one, but I remember on one of them you were trying to adjust the governor.
Your problem that time was that you were only adjusting the outer tensioner. That merely moves the position of the frequency band (limit adjuster). If you adjust the inner tensioner that will change the width of the hysteresis loop (range adjuster). You need to get that right before you can adjust the outer tensioner.
Edit: On this engine there must be some other mechanism, but they all have to have separate range and limit adjusters.
Audio is way better this episode!
Perkins sounds pretty good running without load.
Thanks for checking it out!
Personally, knowing those CAV pumps, just rebuild the pump, those engines are bomb proof. If you need parts for a perkins, i use my local Massey tractor dealer, just about everything was perkins in a massey furgy at one point, from 3 cylinders to V8's.
If i remember right, the governors in those 354's were a sliding rack with a spring that wasnt the most accurate from new, just on the verge of good enough...
Dont give up on her..
Never seen one loaded up like that before
Thanks for all you do.... I am really excited to see the conversion. I have an older Katolite and I really need to get it swapped.
I had heard of Perkins diesels before. But it is great to see one in action. The air cleaner looks like it needs replacement.
Have a older rebranded CAT with a Perkins that needs a control upgrade! Super excited to see what and how you do this!
The pressure differances are probably down to a little rust forming on the valves and seats if its been standing still for a long time .I would advise you to get the inj. pump done at the same time as it is probably gunged up inside,again because of standing still. the internal governor gets gummed up and does,nt move freely which is very important on a generator.Set the generator at 50hz for the most stable power flow.
Neat unit, that. Good old Perkins. Those diesels were all over the place in Massey Ferguson and other tractors as I recall. Can't wait to see how things improve with a little rebuild on that injection pump especially as that'll include the mechanical governor.
All the engine and fuel pump is/was local to me.
I made lots of parts for the CAV line as an apprentice in the late 70[s
Later in life had 1truck with 6354 and 2 JCB diggers with the same unit.
Empire generators were built for the budget price market, like Generac etc.
Lucas mechanical governors aren’t the best for generator applications. Even with a well adjusted mechanical Governor you’ll be lucky to get 5% droop. Upgrading to an electronic isochronous Governor would be a vast improvement.
yes exactly right, i have a 152 on a 20 Kw 3 phase which had a Stanadyne pump, lovely tight govenor on that but broke the input shaft so swopped it out for a CAV as i couldnt afford a replacement Stanadyne at the time..the CAV run lovely but wouldnd govern worth a toss so i stripped the pump, removed all the mech govenor mechanism and refitted it to an electronic govenor..its now perfect whatever the load
To be pefectly honest I would probably pay more for that genset with the original brainboxery working than I would with a modern digital equivalent that is 250% more failure prone and disposable. It may not seem like it on face value given the problems this unit has, but the fact that it's still able to make power is testament to the durability and longevity of the old school components.
I would restore the original control system to proper working order instead of replacing it outright. To me it'd be a downgrade to put modern electronics in there. I'd rather have a generator that's a little off in the rhubarb 50+ years on than have one that stops making power entirely after just a decade or two.
Cleaning the injectors sounds like a good idea. Not seen a compression test done on a diesel before. 😁
Merry Christmas and happy new year from the UK 🇬🇧
Check the injection pump timing. Thanks for the video.
Great diagnosis!
Thanks Scout! Will we see you at the Jacktown snow show?
Very interesting. I look forward to seeing your progress on this genset.
Those are good ole engines Mike ! Bet you can get it fixed right up .. ENJOYED
Thanks for sharing Mike. I always enjoy these videos and learn something from you every time!!
Great job! Can’t wait to see pt 2.
Can't wait to see the updated controls and the governor issue resolved. Thanks!
Diaphragm on the lift pump is the normal way for fuel to enter the crankcase.The pump is driven by a skew gear from the camshaft.Its an easy fix.Companies like Agriline,Vapormatic etc do all replacement parts.They supply new shortblocks for the 236 but not the 354.Perkins 236 was their most common engine.
If you go to western truck repairs , he has a video pulling a pump apart I don't recall if it a cav pump or not. I only intend on giving you some insite .
Great stuff Mike, looking forward to the next video. I'll give you a call Monday on my Genmac we talked about.
Love the Lucas CAV rotary distributor pumps, but they have soooo many parts to keep track of when rebuilding. The bit thats leaking looks to be the cold start device (advances the timing) it leaking could certainly throw things off a wee bit but I do believe its the governor itself that is at fault.
Glad you are doing this classic generator . rework and keep it up t and running thank you for all you do for those classic generator s
Nice engine. Mechanically good. Replacing, or overhauling the injectors is a good start.
check out a Napier Deltec for a UK design....
I soak cylinders with Marvel melts carbon out after a few days . Then start after clearing oil out .
Probably never had load and just ran high idle for its life.
At DOE AEC we had to run monthly under 75% load.
We had 50 gensets from all makes 1960s to new.
Excellent thanks.
if there is diesel fuel entering thecrancase, then in my opinion, the fuel might be evaporating causing some of the "blowby". The other thing, is that if the engine was designed in the UKJ, as I suspect ir was, the rpm would have been dsigned for 1500 (50Hz). I used to run Rolls Royce engines (750kVA) units designed for 60Hz, and when they were rtun at 50Hz, they vibrated just as the control box vibrated. just a thought, Harmonic vibrations are worthy of consideration. The "miss" could either be an injecto or the pump. I would try an injector first. the pump is unlikely to differentiate between cylinders as it started very quickly with no build up of fuel pressure.
the running rough could be valve lash and or crook injector nozzle dribbling in the cylinder ( also might explain diesel in oil). Perkins of that era had a good reputation in tractors. Other issues indicate that the injector pump needs a service.
Nice generator I enjoy your videos , Perkins info 6.354 = 6 cylinder 354 cu inch. These engines were used for many years in Hyster forklifts .
After sorting the leaks if still runs bad I would check the distributor drive to the DPA fuel pump. Technically the transfer pump is on the end (top) of the DPA. This generates round 60 -80psi. The diaphragm pump on the other side is a low pressure lift pump
Not sure would not be surprised if the leaking filling damper is not helping.
I goofed and watched part 2 first .... no worries though ... I'll catch up! :)
sounds like it needs a good tune up ,, i've never yet seen a 354 perkins that ran smooth ,, I've got one transplanted into a ford ranger ,,it was completely rebuilt and had blowby from day 1 still runs beautiful just like it did 10 years ago , but it never ran perfectly smooth for whatever reason ,,mine is a 4-354 but i have worked on 6-354 engines as well ,,that injection pump is a headache if it goes wrong ,,, lots of these engines found their way into massey fergusson tractors , generators weren't so common but water pumps and farm machines like hay swathers and smaller combines ,they were simple and reliable and pretty easy to work on
Yours would be a 4.236
Sourcing parts should be easy, as these are the same engines in the London bus routemaster double deckers. Also Perkins is Rolls Royce, so the parts are readily available from that source as well. I've looked after several perkins powered gen sets over the years.
Is perkins not part of cat now.
Routemaster bus usually has the AEC engine, I didn't know they have Perkins 6.354 in them.
@@kindkoun bit of confusion I think. AEC was or became part of rolls Royce. Don't know about the diesel side, but aero was I think. Perkins is cat owned almost 100%sure. Correct me if I'm wrong. Just not sure.
@@bigteddy66 You are right Caterpillar owns Perkins now. In the 80's Perkins bought Rolls Royce diesel engine division and after that they were swallowed by Caterpillar. I don't know if AEC was part of Rolls Royce before they stopped making engines. On a side note Rolls Royce at the time wanted to concentrate on aero engines. They owned 50 percent of BMW aero engines, bought their partner out and gave their prestigious automobile marque to BMW! I believe the B52 re-engine program involved one of the BMW/Rolls Royce models.
At 15:11 not only the engine gets stressed but also the image stabilizer in the camera xD
Ha! Thanks for watching!
In the fuel injector pump there is a very fine filter that is prone to blockage ,also the fuel lift pump diagram prone to failure, the can next to the injection pump ,not sure it’s requirement,they are a very dirty engine inside,also the valves do we’re into the valve seats giving compression problems
I like your vidéos . I learn a lot . I am Genset addict !❤
Îm Max from belgium And I have a MEP 802 A modified to 50Hz like we have in Europe.
Kind regards
Other than a few minor issues, it seems like a good unit :) I look forward to seeing your future videos on it.
careful with that advance on the injector pump. There is a small ball that fits in a side hole when you unscrew the round bit. easy to louse.
Great to seeing some more videos from you, looking forward to the next.
Perkins United Kingdom will have all the information on your engine. I had a Genset like yours with a Aussie brand name. The CAV pumps are bad for governors, there the throw out weights design. Send it for a overhaul so it gets recalibrated and it’s internal pump redone:-)
If you got a bad noozle it could be washing down the cyclinders hence the variations you are getting, do it again with some oil in the cyclinder
I had a long relationship with a 354. Have been wanting another pair recently
On my genset the fuel in the oil was from the injection pump. I had it rebuilt and fixed the issue.
The clutch is daddy wampum.. woke me up
Its wet stacking also, those Perkins engine like to be worked hard an for long periods of time, might have a bad injector. Also could be sucking some air in were all those fuel leaks are.Oliver tractors used those in there tractors as well an they were work horses
Thanks for posting.
cav pumps leak fix that and no fuel in the oil bundy bear has a good video
Check the valve clerance.
Engine that stays for long time it will have problems with valve clerance.
Adjust them and after 10h of work check them again.
But the blowby its a problem, can be the fuel on the oil.
I have one of these in my boat. Looking fwd to the injection pump rebuild.
Looking forward to this one! Just swapped out the controls on my Onan RJC to a DSE 6110 MKIII
If you were in the UK i would say instantly injection pump and injectors out and away for a good service solve most of those issues those lift pumps are quite good at leaking . Yes thoses injectors need a good service forget the test they need doing as will the pump
Merry Christmas
I was wondering where we would be going after the big old Roiline/Onan.
This reminds me, we still have a Perkins 4-154 to marry up with an equally dated Stamford C20-B generator end.
That sounds like a good combo, thanks for watching!
@@SmallEngineMechanic My pleasure, I love your videos and constantly look out for them. I learn quite a lot, just by watching.
Thank you!👍
I worked in the diesel injection trade for 25 years, this injection pump probably has worn governor parts. A good rebuild of pump and injectors including bench testing will help. There is no external droop, or sensitivity, adjustment. Also no max fuel adjustment. You can only set the max speed and low idle. There are several wear points that effect the droop, or rpm drop, when load is applied or removed. Replacing these parts will give you the result you need.. Make sure to use a reputable shop, with a test bench..
Sounds like the engine is running smoothly, but it's hard to tell with the low pass filter on.
I agree with a previous poster on the fact of keeping the old brain box. Just rebuild it with modern caps and you will be good to go.
If that NA 6354 is only about 87 kw and you are trying to draw 40kw with a load I wonder why it drops off a bit L.O.L. That industrial engine is probably governed for flat out, more like a combine engine where a tractor or truck engine has a bit different governor that allows it to vary fuel more with load changes. We have one of those pumps on our 6372 in our combine it was peeing fuel out everywhere including in the timing gears. I watched Bundy bears video and got a good brand kit from ebay and did the rebuild it's running far better now than it ever did even without new internals and a recalibration. so you might get it with injectors redone as well if they need it.
It might be worth changing all the rubber sealing rings on the fuel pipe fittings to if it has that style instead of brass olives. The rubbers go hard and start leaking or they don't tighten up and seal right letting them start to pull air. when i did a tractor rebuild some of the Perkins rubber rings updated to brass olive fittings through Agco part numbers. If the valves were set tight they may not seating quite right still with some damage after the reset I've seen it on several tractor heads, I seem to remember the settings are quite wide on them when they are right. Thanks for the video take care.
Thanks for checking it out!
That was awesome, thanks for sharing
If you want better audio you need to get a high pass filter not a low pass. Low pass means the low frequency’s pass through and not the high.
I think your expecting too much out of that engine, I work on them and have tons of small diesel engines, your governor may have come apart take the return line off the injection pump and see if there are small pieces of fiber clogging it, if that was the case though you wouldn't have any horsepower. I work mostly on Stanadyne pumps.
Over the pond,the engine is a perkin 6354,very good engine ,the engine was fitted in every thing made ,check the fuel pump per filter,prone to blockage,and the fuel pumps fail.
354 Perkins. Nice! Used heavily in agriculture
The 6,354 perkins, good old workhorse, 6 denotes the amount of cyls, 354 is the cu. Inch cyl capacity, if the lift pump diaphragm is leaking the fuel system would probably air lock and stop the engine, fuel could leak out of the drive end of the injector pump, worked these engines in trucks in the 70s,
Merry Christmas and thank you for the videos
Always wondered about this wouldn't it be cheaper to modernize this older but still decent equipment then replace like I get sometimes it's not worth the cost but other times it is
I have that same unit. I had replaced the injectors and solved that problem. You could try and have them cleaned and or rebuilt ? I had found a set cheap of ebay long back
Oh also I put a taller air filter on mine
If I saw the screen message correctly it mentions that you added a low-pass filter to lower the genset noise. The correct type of filter to lower low frequency noise (genset) is a high-pass filter. Doesn't make sense but that's the way filter networks work😀
I agree with you, this genset would benefit from a more modern controller
I do think generators in North America have a harder time than in Europe, spinning up to 1800 erpm from cold has to be harder than our 1500erpm...
Those DPA governors tend to wear when on light loads, they're only pressed metal plate..
I have 1 just a smaller version and I need the up coming videos, the controller is dead and I need to upgrade it too.
Fuel leaking into the oil through the injection pump. oil cools and lubricates the injection pump and there's a seal that tends to fail in the fuel passes between the oil and the injection pump
You can also spray water into the intake to decarbonize.
Great engine the Perkins. I grew up around them. Dad was a diesel fitter for Massey Ferguson. He use to go on about the Rotary CAV pumps. Even as a kid I'd shake my head thinking " every other English engine manufacturer used inline injector pumps except these idiots" . Nonetheless a fantastic engine Perkins are but that Rotary injector pump is the weak point. Perkins parts are cheap. Any Tractor spares shop will have parts.
Well if he needs injectors, I just gave DPD a poke and they got'em. SKU 2645A010 194USD, each.
He maybe SOL on the lift pump tho...
a ComAp InteliLite controller would go really well with this set.
Had a t6.354m in a boat. 160 hp rated with the turbo and air to water aftercooler. She was a dirty girl under load. Anything over 2100 rpms and heavy load it smoked like a coal train.
The fuel pump leak will afect the internal fuel pressure pump and responce of pump
You can strip most of this pump externals replace seals theres internal filter aswell on inlet fitting
Thanks for checking it out. I plan to get to the pump in the next video!
I haven't finished the vid but maybe check exhaust temps on each cylinder and then jump on to injectors and pumps
If diesel is leaking out, air can get in.
Could it be possible the injection pump is sucking air, pumping that to the injector and causing your misfire?
*- Could the engine's frequency pitch governor be ultra sensitive to the fuel pump membrane?*
Area deisel are the men and women who will be able to help with parts and or injection components