I am writing through a translator, because I apologize in advance, but I really wanted to write something good! That's cool! I've been watching your channel for more than a year, it was from you that I learned about Teknic ClearPath Servo and OpenDesk. Keep up the good work, it's all very interesting !!!
Thanks for posting these vids. You are doing exactly what I have planned for my 4896 I use in my shop. The clearpaths, the S30C and eventually an actuated linear rack for the backside.
Planning to go the same way.. The design I am working out for my wine rack is to place it on the back of the machine on set of linear rails that are on top of the side bars, then use pnumatics to extend and retract them... I am also thinking through how to handle the lock and release, as the spindle sucks the toolholders up about 1/4" and visa versa during the lock/release process.. I am thinking something with springs.. will share the design when I have it all worked out.
Awesome video, I been waiting to see some videos like this before I bought one of these spindles, plan on getting an ATC for my CNC router parts pro I am converting to a custom machine this spring and this spindle is near the top of my list and basically my #1 pick after this video.
Yah I've been pretty happy with it so far.. and even though I don't have my ATC worked out yet.. just having the powerdraw bar in the Spindle is saving me mega time on tool changes... Once you go with a power draw bar you will never want to tool change a router again...
thanks for the suggestion.. not sure how the wife would appreciate me drilling holes in the garage floor and driving a copper rod into the ground ;-)... the frame of the machine is grounded to the house ground but its probably too far away.. I might try hanging a piece of metal off the frame to touching the concrete because the feet are electrically isolated so the concrete floor is not a potential path for ground currently (even though the chunk of earth outside my house where the service entrance is...
Extremely new and undereducated to the world of CNC. Purchased a 4x4 from CNC Depot (Now Avid CNC) and just got it together. Everything is plug and play. We purchased the S30C from CNC Depot at the same time. As I am slowly learning everything I was wondering if you had instructions on the ATC spindle with pneumatic power drawbar drawer setup? Or if you could point me in the direction(s) to learn exactly what I am doing. Thank you for you time and information.
Why doesn't anyone explain how the pnueamatics work what kind of valves required how it is wired to o the Breakout brd and the software how to set it up
I'm planning an epoxy-granite vertical mill in similar basic configuration to a Tormach and looking at this as a possible spindle. I'm finding very little information on how it handles hardened steels, such as 4140 or even S7. This is going to be a hobbyist/prototyping machine, not a production one.
you will want something slower with more low end torque for dealing with steel.. High speeds are for wood, tiny endmills, and some light aluminum work.. you are far better finding a spindle that tops out under 10k but can go down to 500 with good torque than a high speed spindle like this..
Very nice rig you have there. Just got my hands on one as well . Do you happen to have a setup sheet of your inverter and of mach 3? I can't seem to get the spindle to spin clockwise. Or read rpm in the spindle tab. This thing is driving me crazy!!
is that your code ramping up the speed slowly or is it the vfd's limitation? Also what is the rattling at 0:56? It just completely sounds like it's gonna blow up. Is that the video or something on the machine rattling when it gets to 16k? Thanks for sharing.
No complaints.. I still don't have full ATC going with a rack and all that, however this is by far the most valuable upgrade I have ever done.. I LURV tool changes happening in 5 seconds instead of a few minutes..
Let me clarify the question I just posted a moment ago -- i rewatched the video and you clearly said the always-on air pressure is lower, like 40 PSI vs. 100-105 for the tool change. So my question is about the CFM requirement for the 40 PSI that's always on. Also, I was confused by your solenoid valve -- it looked to me like you had a single inbound air line to it, and the solenoid switches between always-on air and tool-change air. But since the pressure requirements are very different for each, where are you setting / controlling the pressure for each of these lines -- between the solenoid and the inputs on top of the spindle? maybe I just didn't see clearly how you've set it up. Thanks!
I can't give you a CFM.. What I have been told by CNCDepot is that any air pressure you can feel is enough.. Its just some positive pressure to keep particles and dust out of the bearings. That hose is a little 1/8" hose and the bleed off of the solinoid I use to feed it is just cracked open... I would say the usage is probably similar to an airbrush or two.. so very small.
Hi, thanks for the detailed review. I've just ordered one of these but haven't received yet. Question about the air requirements -- what minimum CFM is required for the always-on constant air for the air seal? and is the pressure for the always-on air the same as the pressure for doing a tool change? I'm worried my old compressor may not be adequate for this but any info you can provided would be great. I've reached out to Alex also but haven't heard back yet. Thanks!
we run a single regulated 100psi line to a solenoid on the back of the gantry... There we switch between a totally open (all 100psi) pressure to operate the.. that line is normally off (only on when the power drawbar is open). The other side of the solinode goes to a valve that cuts the air volume way down (just a slight breeze coming out from the bottom of the spindle) and that one is normally open.. So the air pressure switches between the constant air and the drawbar.. Hope that helps
@@HandsonCNC Thanks that helps a lot. One other question -- what is the "valve" downstream of the solenoid that reduces the air volume way down - is it just another regulator? Do you have a link or a product name? Thanks much
Hello! Great video! I am getting my ducks in a row for an avid purchase and I would really like ATC capabilities and so far this looks like a terrific option. Question.. How does the 3hp handle spindle handle surfacing operations with a 2 1/2" surfacing bit? And full depth cuts through 3/4" plywood with something like a 3/8" end mill? I am currently running a 12hp spindle at work and now want to purchase a machine for personal use that is within my budget. I just want me make sure the 3hp can keep up with the kind of work I will be doing. Thanks in advance!
I think you are going to find the rigidity of the machine and the strength of your steppers are going to be a limiting factor before 3hp becomes a limiting factor... As for your two example scenario. Surfacing is more than fine.. And I have never done full depth cuts on this machine so I can't answer that...
I have a Chinese 80mm water cooled spindle. It is very quiet. Would you consider this quieter than your Chinese spindle was? Was your Chinese one liquid or air cooled? Thanks.
Little suggesttion. way lighter passes, toolradius = max depth of cut per pass. especially with smaller diameter tools due to the strength of the machine and its capability to destroy itself. It gets quieter too. It won´t scream as much that way Nice viedeo though, that machine is a beauty. I wish i had the space.
I'm not quite sure where you got the idea that the tool radius = max depth of cut but that is not correct. Using your formula if I had a 1/2" dia. tool, I would only be able to cut 1/4" deep per pass. I routinely take 3/4" deep pass with a 1/2" dia. tool without issue. As a starting point a tool can cut 1 1/2 - 2 times the tool diameter per pass. The more important factor is maintaining the correct chipload. The correct chipload will ensure the tool lasts longer, you will get the desired finish on the cut and the spindle will be working in an optimal range.
Hi, nice video. I have some improvements to say. Please increase the breaking acceleration, so that you can stop your spindle in 1 or 2 sec. Another tip is, never hold the tool holder like held it at 5:48 :-) or you will clamp your fingers with a few kilonewtons :-(
Thanks for the pointers, because I don't have an ATC setup and a human is involved in changing tools, I don't think I have the VFD applying much breaking at all (also I don't have a break resistor so I would have to balance with what the VFD can soak or get hit with an over-volt error)... And thanks for the safety tip!
How did your stepper motor handle the extra weight ? It looks like you have a gas strut mounted to the Z axis. Also how much more torque would this have vs my bosch 2 1/4 HP router. I have a older cnc router parts/avid cnc router and I am really thinking about buying this as it takes to much time for tool changes. Thanks
I am running Servos, so they react fine.... I haven't noticed any performance issues in my Z axis and at this point I've had the spindle for quite a while..
How is the spindle still holding up? Is it still worth every penny? Hoping to add an Avid 6096 soon. Would you recommend just wiring the whole machine with the Panasonic sensors and stay away from the Pepperl + Fuchs Proximity Sensor Kit?
LURV THIS SPINDLE!!!! Can't say enough good things about it! I can't speak to legit Pepperl + Fuchs Proximity Sensor Kit I was using chinese knockoffs and they kept dying.. I switched over to the panasonic sensors because that is what my mill uses and it made sense to get the mill and the router to use the same sensors after the sensors on the router kept dying.. I would hope name brand industrial sensors work better than the trash I get off amazon.
I haven't decided what to do about it yet.. It only happens when I am at my Z++ limit (or near it) so for the moment Its not as high a priority as designing a retractable wine rack for an ATC.
Quick question for you. I'm using the S30s now on an Avid CNC and have an issue in that the z will drop due to the weight if my servos don't have power. This can happen during a fault. I noticed you have gas springs attached to yours. I ordered some but stupid me, they are push vs. pull. Can I ask where you got yours?
Hi Josh, thank so much for the review of S30C. Hoping to hear again from you of any remedy about the little issue of the spindle you've mentioned. Thank you also for the review of the ClearPath Servo and CNCRP frame. Because of the review, it gives me a clear idea on how to tune the ClearPath servos especially the y and x axes and guide me to where and what CNC frames and parts to buy.
Hey, thanks a lot for doing this review! I ended up purchasing the same spindle package. Would you mind sharing your parameter settings for the vfd? Thanks in advance and keep up the good work!
I am in contact with CNCDepot about the issue, I've had a lot going on and haven't put enough time on it to know if its a frequency issue or a grease packing issue or a bearing issue.. But we are in constant contact.. I will say under load it sounds fine and cuts great.. If we find the issue isn't resolving with break in then I'll post an update.
Alexander James Guitars I did; the raddle noise was actually the counter weight spring. Something about the harmonica of the spindle. It causes the air spring to make that noise. So not the spindle. Spindle is still smooth and cool.
no its not great, its better than nothing.. (my Dust collector just stopped working so I am experiencing what "nothing" is like till I get time to fix it)
I've never thought about it (being american, even worse Texan)... but you make an interesting point.. Its actually along the lines of a conversation I had once with a Quaker who mentioned they never point out when they are telling the truth like "The truth is", "swear on the bible", or as you pointed out "I'm not gonna lie" . Much like you suggest to do so is to suggest other times they are not telling the truth, and honesty is core to their beliefs..
Not sure if you saw the other comment but the spindle noise ended up being some connector supports for my Nitro spring.. This was a replacement of a cheap chinese spindle and it is way better and sounds better too.. The audio in the video just doesn't express it.. The cuts are better (though spinning a bit is spinning a bit so I think that is likely more to do with how it mounts to the Pro4896 as that is far more ridged than my old chinese spindle)... This upgrade has been A++ for me, would totally do it again!
So we found out the issue isn't the spindle, its actually my nitro spring, something about the harmonics of this spindle cause my z spring to rattle something crazy..
I am writing through a translator, because I apologize in advance, but I really wanted to write something good!
That's cool! I've been watching your channel for more than a year, it was from you that I learned about Teknic ClearPath Servo and OpenDesk. Keep up the good work, it's all very interesting !!!
Thanks for the feedback... Have a great weekend
That is a nice piece of kit. I'm a bit of a hobbyist at the moment but hop to have a setup like yours one day.👌
Thanks for posting these vids. You are doing exactly what I have planned for my 4896 I use in my shop. The clearpaths, the S30C and eventually an actuated linear rack for the backside.
Planning to go the same way.. The design I am working out for my wine rack is to place it on the back of the machine on set of linear rails that are on top of the side bars, then use pnumatics to extend and retract them... I am also thinking through how to handle the lock and release, as the spindle sucks the toolholders up about 1/4" and visa versa during the lock/release process.. I am thinking something with springs.. will share the design when I have it all worked out.
@Devin Harris do you have a BOM of everything you bought and from where?
Awesome video, I been waiting to see some videos like this before I bought one of these spindles, plan on getting an ATC for my CNC router parts pro I am converting to a custom machine this spring and this spindle is near the top of my list and basically my #1 pick after this video.
Yah I've been pretty happy with it so far.. and even though I don't have my ATC worked out yet.. just having the powerdraw bar in the Spindle is saving me mega time on tool changes... Once you go with a power draw bar you will never want to tool change a router again...
Damn that is one sexy spindle! On your noise issue it is common industry practice to install a ground rod at each machine.
thanks for the suggestion.. not sure how the wife would appreciate me drilling holes in the garage floor and driving a copper rod into the ground ;-)... the frame of the machine is grounded to the house ground but its probably too far away.. I might try hanging a piece of metal off the frame to touching the concrete because the feet are electrically isolated so the concrete floor is not a potential path for ground currently (even though the chunk of earth outside my house where the service entrance is...
Extremely new and undereducated to the world of CNC. Purchased a 4x4 from CNC Depot (Now Avid CNC) and just got it together. Everything is plug and play. We purchased the S30C from CNC Depot at the same time. As I am slowly learning everything I was wondering if you had instructions on the ATC spindle with pneumatic power drawbar drawer setup? Or if you could point me in the direction(s) to learn exactly what I am doing. Thank you for you time and information.
Why doesn't anyone explain how the pnueamatics work what kind of valves required how it is wired to o the Breakout brd and the software how to set it up
I'm planning an epoxy-granite vertical mill in similar basic configuration to a Tormach and looking at this as a possible spindle. I'm finding very little information on how it handles hardened steels, such as 4140 or even S7. This is going to be a hobbyist/prototyping machine, not a production one.
you will want something slower with more low end torque for dealing with steel.. High speeds are for wood, tiny endmills, and some light aluminum work.. you are far better finding a spindle that tops out under 10k but can go down to 500 with good torque than a high speed spindle like this..
@@HandsonCNC Thank you for the information.
Very nice rig you have there. Just got my hands on one as well . Do you happen to have a setup sheet of your inverter and of mach 3? I can't seem to get the spindle to spin clockwise.
Or read rpm in the spindle tab. This thing is driving me crazy!!
is that your code ramping up the speed slowly or is it the vfd's limitation?
Also what is the rattling at 0:56?
It just completely sounds like it's gonna blow up. Is that the video or something on the machine rattling when it gets to 16k?
Thanks for sharing.
rattling is my nitro shock... it does sound horrible but its not the spindle.. And the ramp time is the little VFD.. Hope that helps
Would this spindle work with the onefinity journeyman?
Good video. I'm looking at purchasing a CNCDe3pot S30C and wondered how has it held up for you over the last 2.5 years?
No complaints.. I still don't have full ATC going with a rack and all that, however this is by far the most valuable upgrade I have ever done.. I LURV tool changes happening in 5 seconds instead of a few minutes..
Let me clarify the question I just posted a moment ago -- i rewatched the video and you clearly said the always-on air pressure is lower, like 40 PSI vs. 100-105 for the tool change. So my question is about the CFM requirement for the 40 PSI that's always on. Also, I was confused by your solenoid valve -- it looked to me like you had a single inbound air line to it, and the solenoid switches between always-on air and tool-change air. But since the pressure requirements are very different for each, where are you setting / controlling the pressure for each of these lines -- between the solenoid and the inputs on top of the spindle? maybe I just didn't see clearly how you've set it up. Thanks!
I can't give you a CFM.. What I have been told by CNCDepot is that any air pressure you can feel is enough.. Its just some positive pressure to keep particles and dust out of the bearings. That hose is a little 1/8" hose and the bleed off of the solinoid I use to feed it is just cracked open... I would say the usage is probably similar to an airbrush or two.. so very small.
Hi, thanks for the detailed review. I've just ordered one of these but haven't received yet. Question about the air requirements -- what minimum CFM is required for the always-on constant air for the air seal? and is the pressure for the always-on air the same as the pressure for doing a tool change? I'm worried my old compressor may not be adequate for this but any info you can provided would be great. I've reached out to Alex also but haven't heard back yet. Thanks!
we run a single regulated 100psi line to a solenoid on the back of the gantry... There we switch between a totally open (all 100psi) pressure to operate the.. that line is normally off (only on when the power drawbar is open). The other side of the solinode goes to a valve that cuts the air volume way down (just a slight breeze coming out from the bottom of the spindle) and that one is normally open.. So the air pressure switches between the constant air and the drawbar.. Hope that helps
@@HandsonCNC Thanks that helps a lot. One other question -- what is the "valve" downstream of the solenoid that reduces the air volume way down - is it just another regulator? Do you have a link or a product name? Thanks much
@@carlpetitt2241 its nothing fancy just a little pin valve to limit airflow : amzn.to/39RhPKf
Hello! Great video! I am getting my ducks in a row for an avid purchase and I would really like ATC capabilities and so far this looks like a terrific option. Question.. How does the 3hp handle spindle handle surfacing operations with a 2 1/2" surfacing bit? And full depth cuts through 3/4" plywood with something like a 3/8" end mill? I am currently running a 12hp spindle at work and now want to purchase a machine for personal use that is within my budget. I just want me make sure the 3hp can keep up with the kind of work I will be doing. Thanks in advance!
I think you are going to find the rigidity of the machine and the strength of your steppers are going to be a limiting factor before 3hp becomes a limiting factor... As for your two example scenario. Surfacing is more than fine.. And I have never done full depth cuts on this machine so I can't answer that...
I have a Chinese 80mm water cooled spindle. It is very quiet. Would you consider this quieter than your Chinese spindle was? Was your Chinese one liquid or air cooled?
Thanks.
Yes it is quieter than my water-cooled chinses spindle for sure..
Little suggesttion. way lighter passes, toolradius = max depth of cut per pass. especially with smaller diameter tools due to the strength of the machine and its capability to destroy itself. It gets quieter too. It won´t scream as much that way
Nice viedeo though, that machine is a beauty. I wish i had the space.
I'm not quite sure where you got the idea that the tool radius = max depth of cut but that is not correct. Using your formula if I had a 1/2" dia. tool, I would only be able to cut 1/4" deep per pass. I routinely take 3/4" deep pass with a 1/2" dia. tool without issue. As a starting point a tool can cut 1 1/2 - 2 times the tool diameter per pass. The more important factor is maintaining the correct chipload. The correct chipload will ensure the tool lasts longer, you will get the desired finish on the cut and the spindle will be working in an optimal range.
Hi, nice video. I have some improvements to say. Please increase the breaking acceleration, so that you can stop your spindle in 1 or 2 sec. Another tip is, never hold the tool holder like held it at 5:48 :-) or you will clamp your fingers with a few kilonewtons :-(
Thanks for the pointers, because I don't have an ATC setup and a human is involved in changing tools, I don't think I have the VFD applying much breaking at all (also I don't have a break resistor so I would have to balance with what the VFD can soak or get hit with an over-volt error)... And thanks for the safety tip!
How did your stepper motor handle the extra weight ? It looks like you have a gas strut mounted to the Z axis. Also how much more torque would this have vs my bosch 2 1/4 HP router. I have a older cnc router parts/avid cnc router and I am really thinking about buying this as it takes to much time for tool changes. Thanks
I am running Servos, so they react fine.... I haven't noticed any performance issues in my Z axis and at this point I've had the spindle for quite a while..
I have the same setup and was wondering what gas spring you are using on yours?
Here is the Gas spring I used www.mcmaster.com/4138t58
How is the spindle still holding up? Is it still worth every penny? Hoping to add an Avid 6096 soon. Would you recommend just wiring the whole machine with the Panasonic sensors and stay away from the Pepperl + Fuchs Proximity Sensor Kit?
LURV THIS SPINDLE!!!! Can't say enough good things about it!
I can't speak to legit Pepperl + Fuchs Proximity Sensor Kit I was using chinese knockoffs and they kept dying.. I switched over to the panasonic sensors because that is what my mill uses and it made sense to get the mill and the router to use the same sensors after the sensors on the router kept dying.. I would hope name brand industrial sensors work better than the trash I get off amazon.
Follow-up question: Already found the culprit that make the unwanted noise, so what remedy or solution did you make? Change the air spring?
I haven't decided what to do about it yet.. It only happens when I am at my Z++ limit (or near it) so for the moment Its not as high a priority as designing a retractable wine rack for an ATC.
Great vid, great spindle. For clarity, there is nothing HSK about it however.
Nothing HSK about it that I am aware of..
Quick question for you. I'm using the S30s now on an Avid CNC and have an issue in that the z will drop due to the weight if my servos don't have power. This can happen during a fault. I noticed you have gas springs attached to yours. I ordered some but stupid me, they are push vs. pull. Can I ask where you got yours?
McMaster Carr its a push spring - www.mcmaster.com/catalog/126/1351
Did ya cut yer z plate I’ve noticed they are quite a bit too long I might cut mine too. How’s this Spindle holding up ?
So far so good for the spindle... , the Zplate is factory from AvidCNC.. I haven't cut it down at all..
Interesting mine looks 4” longer
when I ordered mine there was an 8" and 12" version of the Z axis.. I ordered the 8" I think that very well could be it..
I have the 8” travel as well but my plate is 14” long 🤦🏼♂️
Hi Josh, thank so much for the review of S30C. Hoping to hear again from you of any remedy about the little issue of the spindle you've mentioned. Thank you also for the review of the ClearPath Servo and CNCRP frame. Because of the review, it gives me a clear idea on how to tune the ClearPath servos especially the y and x axes and guide me to where and what CNC frames and parts to buy.
The spindle issue was actually my Nitro shock.. Something about the harmonics makes that Nitro shock vibrate like mad.
power drawbar is sweet, but F1 pit crew still changes tires faster
Hey, thanks a lot for doing this review! I ended up purchasing the same spindle package. Would you mind sharing your parameter settings for the vfd? Thanks in advance and keep up the good work!
Just saw this. I’m out of town right now. But I’ll share when I get back.
nice man
Sounds like you have a frequency problem. It should run much smoother than that.
I am in contact with CNCDepot about the issue, I've had a lot going on and haven't put enough time on it to know if its a frequency issue or a grease packing issue or a bearing issue.. But we are in constant contact..
I will say under load it sounds fine and cuts great.. If we find the issue isn't resolving with break in then I'll post an update.
@@HandsonCNC did you figure out what that weird noise is? I have a spindle that is doing the exact same electronic noise type thing.
Alexander James Guitars I did; the raddle noise was actually the counter weight spring. Something about the harmonica of the spindle. It causes the air spring to make that noise. So not the spindle.
Spindle is still smooth and cool.
that dust shoe didn't do a good job.
no its not great, its better than nothing.. (my Dust collector just stopped working so I am experiencing what "nothing" is like till I get time to fix it)
'Im not gonna lie'. Why do americans say that phrase? it insinuates that lying is the default O.o
I've never thought about it (being american, even worse Texan)... but you make an interesting point.. Its actually along the lines of a conversation I had once with a Quaker who mentioned they never point out when they are telling the truth like "The truth is", "swear on the bible", or as you pointed out "I'm not gonna lie" . Much like you suggest to do so is to suggest other times they are not telling the truth, and honesty is core to their beliefs..
Yeah that is not a good quality spindle. The bearings are noisy as hell. Sounds and cuts like the cheap chinese ebay spindles.
Not sure if you saw the other comment but the spindle noise ended up being some connector supports for my Nitro spring.. This was a replacement of a cheap chinese spindle and it is way better and sounds better too.. The audio in the video just doesn't express it.. The cuts are better (though spinning a bit is spinning a bit so I think that is likely more to do with how it mounts to the Pro4896 as that is far more ridged than my old chinese spindle)... This upgrade has been A++ for me, would totally do it again!
Good God, it sounds like a cheap router.
So we found out the issue isn't the spindle, its actually my nitro spring, something about the harmonics of this spindle cause my z spring to rattle something crazy..
Come on, use some proper mesurements. Stupid imperial system. And its not a hsk system, its iso or bt.
these spindles are way overpriced