Enduro vs Trail Bike (Sentinel vs Spur) in Pisgah National Forest
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2024
- I rode middle and lower Black Mountain in Pisgh on the Transition Sentinel (a 29er Enduro bike) and then the same trail the next day on the Transition Spur (a 29er trail bike). Here are my thoughts on how they compare on this trail.
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Great video. I see a lot of of enduros in my neck of the woods…PNW…and often times they are being ridden on fairly tame single track. I’ve ridden enduros on these trails and man is it boring and sluggish. Too many people are buying travel they will never use in my opinion.
Great video and good to see/hear the comparison. Interesting fact - many of the pisgah locals who hold the KOM's and top 10's for climbs and descents on strava are riding Epic Evo's or Tallboy's! But like you said, they have mad skills.
Since I can only afford 1 bike I prefer a enduro bike to have the wide range from blues to blacks and with the extra travel for a little extra give when things get crazy. Good video thanks.
I usually like being over-biked because of the safety factor. I'm a professional, so breaking a bone is going to cost me money in lost work. The enduro bikes are mainly slow because of the rolling resistance of the tires. But if you're smart about your tire choice, that can be mitigated.
You're absolutely correct about the tires.
Great video! The comparison is really helpful for me as I have a pure XC bike with 100mm of travel front and rear and a trail bike with 130/140 travel. The Spur seems like a down country XC bike, on the short end of travel for a trail bike, so the comparisons you draw are relatively similar to those for me with my bikes, though of course I am not riding enduro-type trails hard or fast on my trail bike! But ease of climbing and just going slower on the descents makes the XC bike as much fun as the trail bike, just different :)
I enjoy riding my trail and Enduro bike on same trails. I just ride different and have different fun. I don't feel one has to be better than the other. Great video stay safe
Good stuff Clint..thanks 🤘🤘👊
I live about an hour from this trail..... Because of your reviews and others I've watched.... This is definitely my next bike. I do this trail on my hardtail 36 and love it but at a very capable 52 im starting to feel it more. I figure 2024ish
I have both as well. They are both awesome bikes, but if I could only have one Sentinel no question.
I hit the new middle black and lower black on my 130mm travel Santa Cruz 5010 trail bike and found it to be more than adequate for the task. Opinions will also differ based on suspension set up and how progressive you dialed in your trail bike. I'd think I would prefer a trail bike with perfectly dialed suspension than an enduro with a poor tune.
Thanks Clint.
I found for myself and the trails I ride, I think all mtn is the one arrow in the quiver. Usually 150mm rear and 160 up front. I also found that a 150mm fork with grip 2 will out perform a 160mm with a grip.
That's what the Sentinel is. Transition has the Patrol and Spire for enduro bikes
Yeah, now I’m going to have to plan for a spur in my future… :)
My Ripmo AF is fun on Middle and Lower. Middle is a bit more broken in this year (2022) but Lower looks the same. I like to do lower Sycamore too.
I live local to Pisgah. I will always own a mid travel trail pedal bike.(Trance 29) But,I do have an Enduro E bike just for Kanuga.
I love my spur. Its a killer trail bike for sure.
I was recently quoted an (up to) 12 month order time on a Spur. There must be some crazy demand for this bike in Europe.
It's the bike industry as a whole. Happening here in the United States as well. It's decreased supply due to covid and increased demand. There are some bikes that I could get in 5 days that now I have to wait 6 to 12 months. Sometimes it's not just the frames but bike manufacturers cannot get parts to complete the bikes. I had one guy in the bike industry said they are literally buying parts at retail prices online to complete their bikes.
Seems like the Ripley AF would be fun on this trail too.
Indeed
The slack HT angle on both those bikes is huge help coming down those trails. Last time I was up there I was on a 70 degree HT XC bike. As pathetic as it sounds, I walked down the steeper sections that look like a dry creek. I didnt want to buy new front teeth.
Hey! Good call on walking! Good judgment trumped machismo ... a recipe for longterm MTB'ing. I'm 74-plus and have no qualms about hike-a-bike so I can enjoy another great day on my bike. :-)
My "Enduro" bike is more AM but it's a good 4 lbs heavier than my trail bike with heavier tires. I'd grab the trail bike every time for those trails in the video. I know people claim weight isn't a big deal. I don't agree necessarily and I think a lot of it depends with what your buddies are riding. If everyone is over biked not a big deal but you'll notice a nice change on a lighter trail bike. So much better acceleration, and liveliness. I also like speeding more time picking lines and working through the trail than plowing everything.
I think the last time I rode Black Mountain I was on a hardtail and my riding partner was on a hardtail too but he was rocking a Girvin suspension stem...
Two questions;
1. How do you feel about 27.5 bikes in the market today, is there still a need/want for them; or do you think 29er's are starting to replace them all?
2. Have you ever considered maybe getting into Bike packing, and creating some content on that?
You should do a review of the Orbea Occam Clint, it looks like a really good trail bike
I had one quite a while ago when it was a cross-country bike. One of my first bike reviews!
th-cam.com/video/vjeNvDKWh84/w-d-xo.html
Makes me wonder why Transition and Ibis (among others) don't have a true mid travel trail bike. They have light duty trail bikes (Spur Ripley) then enduro(ish) bikes (Sentinel Ripmo). Seems a slightly more aggressive trail bike that splits the difference would be nice for those of us that just have one bike.
I consider the Scout and Mojo mid travel trail bikes.
@@ClintGibbs mid travel 29er is what I meant
@@mtskibum16 I don't have any inside knowledge at this point, but my gut feeling says the transition is going to bring back a 29er that's between the spur and the sentinel. We'll see!
@@ClintGibbs yeah before the Spur came out I was really figuring the new bike would be a Smuggler re-design. I sort of expect that to be coming. Hopefully!
The Spur and Sentinel don't even really fit neatly into the trail and enduro categories. The Spur is more of a XC bike with trail bike geo, what the marketing types like to call downcountry these days. Transition's trail bike is the Scout. Same with the Sentinel, it is what they like to call an all mountain bike, more rowdy than a trail bike, but smaller and easier to pedal than an enduro bike. Transition has both the Patrol and Spire as their true enduro bikes, which are a lot bigger than the Sentinel in both travel and wheelbase. Some of those mid-travel bikes like the Sentinel also are outliers in certain categories, the Ripmo is one of the best tech climbing bikes you can buy, it outclimbs a lot of trail bikes when the climb gets technical. The Sentinel itself is known to descend as well as many bikes with a lot more travel.
Transition's Enduro team raced the Sentinel for several years. I would imagine some of them will switch over to the Spire. Transition's geometry make the bikes feel like longer travel bikes. This is true for the Spur and also the Sentinel. But you make some good points. Thanks.
@@ClintGibbs Transition says it a trail/All mountain and not an Enduro so where did you come up with the Sentinel being an Enduro?
@@TheSDMonkey The Sentinel was their Enduro bike until about a year or two ago when they came out with the Spire.. Before that their Enduro race team was on the Sentinel. 29er with 160 front travel and 150 rear travel and a 63° head angle is on par with many Enduro bikes.
@@ClintGibbs expect you posted this video 8 months ago and failed to take into account the current suspension design and what the bike is actually marketed as by Transition. That’s not being very honest or transparent when you’re comparing bikes. While AM and Enduro style bikes are very similar they are also very different. Just like the Bronson and Nomad.
A comparison of a Bronson vs a Sentinel would be awesome. No one is doing it.
@@sdmonkey5643 Then I guess we’ll just have to disagree. I still think with the geometry numbers and the amount of travel, the Sentinel can still be considered an Enduro bike. The lines are blurred between all mountain and Enduro. It’s similar to cross country bikes in the sense that you can have a hard tail with 100 mm to travel to be considered a cross country race bike, and they are cross country race bikes that are full suspension with 120 mm of travel front and back.
I have a scott genius 150 travel it suits me where i live and could be used either enduro or trail
How would you say an enduro would handle black mountain loop? The downhill option is legendary in my eyes and I am looking forward to hitting it next year.
I'm not sure how the new upper black mountain will be. Honestly for the new middle black and enduro bike is overkill. The trail bike is fine on lower black but an enduro bike allows you to go a bit faster.
Great video, I’m decided to bUy a Spur whenever is available, question, did the Spur bottomed up any time during the descend?
Thank you
I don’t really experience the Spur bottoming out on descents. It feels like it has more travel than the numbers indicate.
@@ClintGibbs thank you 👍
@Clint Gibbs Does your body position differ when you ride your XC bikes vs when you ride your trail or enduro bikes? Just curious as to how the geometrymay affect body position. Thanks!
Yes, but it's not as much the geometry as it is the cockpit setup. I'm more stretched out on the XC bike.
@@ClintGibbs Thanks!
Great video as always Clint 👍🏻
So I’m stumped between Sentinel and Spur… I’ve rode most of Pisgah on Sentinel. When I asked a local shop would they be demo the Spur, they said “that’s not enough bike for Pisgah”. I was stumped because same shop rents the Tallboy…
So what’s your take between the two? I live down in Charleston. Ride Pisgah every couple months, FATS regularly. I’ve been thoroughly impressed with the Sentinel, but honestly I’m not an enduro rider.
FATS is most fun on the spur for sure. You can ride a lot of trails in Pisgah on the spur and be totally fine. The sentinel is best for trails like Bennett Gap and upper Black mountain and others like that.
Thanks for the reply. Yeah those were my thoughts.
I always considered the Tallboy a great fit for DuPont and Pisgah at for the riding I do.
But I enjoyed hitting BM and some of the more technical stuff in Pisgah at higher speeds on the Sentinel.
@@jameswitherspoon7640 yeah, carrying speed is the key. You can hit the same stuff on the Spur and you can on the sentinel that you just have to take it a bit slower on rougher stuff. There are times I ask myself when I'm on the sentinel "should I be going this fast?". One advantage of bikes like the tallboy and spur is that they force you to slow down a little bit which may prolong your lifespan. 🙂
Indeed! Especially since I’m getting older haha. Thanks for the feedback. Keep the great videos coming- beer on me if I see you in Pisgah!
@@jameswitherspoon7640 I’ll be there around mid July. Let’s do a ride and grab a beer.
How long does it take to do the middle and lower black mtn loop? Do you have the strava posted anywhere? Thanks.
I'd say between an hour and 1.5 hours depending on how hard you ride.
How often do you forget to unlock the shock after one of those long climbs and start rolling down hill before realizing it? I’ve done it a bunch. I’ve also tried to shift down and realize that I’m in the lowest gear a bunch out there.
Every once in awhile I will forget to unlock the suspension but I get pretty focused on my rides and pay close attention to my gear and such
Probably remember after the first four foot drop😂
@@robtodd4726 yep, but you hate to stop until your buddies stop.
Hey Clint, so I live in Pennsylvania and I’m a aggressive rider. My home trails are all pretty much rocks and tech. I’m very interested in buying a sentinel but my concern is low BB ( pedal strikes ) do you experience any issues related to pedal strikes with the sentinel?
A low BB height is something you basically learn how to account for in your riding. Once you ride a bike with a low BB long enough, you intuitively begin timing your pedal strokes to the terrain without even thinking about it.
I agree with Dennis, and also consider shorter cranks.
Both comments here are spot-on. I have shorter cranks on my Sentinel and it makes a big difference. You do learn to adapt. Also get those little race face crank boots that protect your crank arms. Pedal strikes usually happen when you're pedaling that when you're descending with the cranks level. So they are not catastrophic... They just surprise you a bit.
I appreciate everyone’s responses. I’m a experienced rider and already run 170mm cranks on my enduro bike and 165 on my DH which is pretty standard. I’m 6’3”. I do lots of technical climbing as well as charging into tech for feature reasons. So I learned and adapted to pedal stroke timing and well as pedal chops and just pumping... but even with that, on some of these low BB 29ers they can really get close. I’m trying to figure out what’s a good east coast all mountain bike.
I know a lot about a lot of bikes, I’m a bike nerd and am obsessed with mtb. I’ve been trying to figure out my next bike for over a year now. I ride a giant reign right now. I really like the sentinel from what I see on reviews and such, I’m just curious about its BB clearance. Thanks guys
Question - at like 11:10, how is your hair so perfect? Lol jk nice video
Spur or Hightower?
The hightower is more like the Sentinel in travel, but it weighs more than the Sentinel. In fact the hightower weighs about 5 to 6 lb more than the spur.
"Not gnarly at all".. Well, yeah.. Why bother even comparing the two bikes on a trail like that?
You need to hit Farlow! It's my favorite trail out there. It's a real back country experience on a pretty gnarly trail!
I think its also relevant to body weight, you look to be 140's pounds whereas a 200 plus guy will probably need a bit more of a burly build.
If you love dh and jump enduro if you like climb and going faster on a trail go trail bike
I would really like to see a budget build FULL CHINESE CARBON comparison with BUDGET components on one of your test against ANY of these bikes . Or at least put them up against a Bikes direct HAL bike. The prices on these bikes that you are testing are beyond hilarious in a day and age when the ONLY thing cyclist cannot purchase for cheap are COMPETITION DOWNHILL FRAMES because there simply isnt a large enough market for them ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET.
Lots of videos out there about the Chinese carbon frames you speak of. I havent seen one yet where the person was truly happy with it. Carbon isnt that important. Get an aluminum Ripmo, if you can find it.
@@flyingnorseman Oh yes there is people that swear by them on you tube. The Chinese have this market wrapped up, as i have said on this channel many times. Pay what you want, but its not better. The only thing we cannot purchase cheaply are competition 29er Downhill frames because NOT ENOUGH people want them. You should dig a little deeper on you tube, and not ten year old frames either. I will never pay these ridiculous prices for CARBON trail or competition bikes as long as places like Alibaba keep supplying HIGH QUALITY frames and components. That was 20 years ago that we had no choice for high quality bikes, NOT ANYMORE.
@@thiosemicarbizidebenzoylal2921 The videos ive seen about these is always starting from a frame only. No shock, shock mounts or anything on it. Ive not seen 1 built up yet that the person wasnt questioning if it would have been better with something different about the build. I have built several name brand frames from scratch because Im very particular about my parts. I only use Shimano drive chains/brakes and Fox Forks and shocks. Even with the name brand builds and the exact parts needed listed, I always end up having to change a stem, handlebar or something to make it fit right.