I have a whole book on this: The Great Secret of Islam. A free PDF version is available on my website, and you can find the hardcopy and ebook on Amazon. Essentially, we have evidence of the Judeo-Nazarenes’ existence within the Quran, meaning they were active at least until the first half of the 7th century. Regarding their location, there is evidence of ancient settlements in Syria. It’s also likely that some Judeo-Nazarenes were with the early Arab conquerors, possibly in Jerusalem, Arabia, and along the trade routes used by the Arabs.
Excellent presentation. How does this model of the creation of the Quran fit together with existence of different sects of Islam: Sunni, Shia, Ibadi, and Kharijite.
They all share the same Quran... So they must have emerged after the Quran got finished. Or at least, their final doctrines must have emerged after the making of the Quran.
@@OdonLafontaine Yes, this is my point, but these sects all trace their history back to the time of the first fitna and there are coins with Kharijite slogans in the 690'ties. If it was a commander of the believers who ordered that the creation of Islamic Quran, I would expect that his opposition from the other sects would develop alternative Qurans.
@@PeterHarremoes Take a look at Twelver Shiism: according to its tradition (and to the Sunni tradition), it is supposed to have emerged very early, at the time of Muhammad's succession. However, its definitive doctrine does not appear before the "great occultation" (10th century and beyond). Moreover, it is known that the Abbasid coalition, and thus the Abbasid caliphate, had a strong Shiite component. A Shiite dynasty took control of the caliphate from within it in the 10th century (the Buyids). So I think the real separation between Sunni and Shia dates from that time. That is why they share the same Quran.
@@OdonLafontaine I completely agree with you regarding the Shia. If Shia had been a separate sect before the Abbaside revolution I think the Abbaside Caliphate would have been a Shia Caliphate. There have been opposing political fractions leading to 1st and 2nd fitna, these political differences may later have been used to backdate a much later religious divide. Regarding the Ibadi and Kharijite sects I think it is not so clear since we have these early coins with Kharijite slogans.
The disbelievers say, “This ˹Quran˺ is nothing but a fabrication which he made up with the help of others.” Their claim is totally unjustified and untrue! 25:4 And they say, “˹These revelations are only˺ ancient fables which he has had written down, and they are rehearsed to him morning and evening.” 25:5 Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “This ˹Quran˺ has been revealed by the One Who knows the secrets of the heavens and the earth. Surely He is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” 25:6
Thanks Odon, what we lack is critical thinking. We should ask ourselves, question everything we see and hear. ask Proof, evidence, scientific, rational and logical relevance in todays world. Doctors, lawyers, Scientists, engineers, accountants are more smart today than 1400 years ago... yet they stand and listen to Imams who are telling them what a 1400 year old book says about life.
The disbelievers say, “This ˹Quran˺ is nothing but a fabrication which he made up with the help of others.” Their claim is totally unjustified and untrue! 25:4 And they say, “˹These revelations are only˺ ancient fables which he has had written down, and they are rehearsed to him morning and evening.” 25:5 Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “This ˹Quran˺ has been revealed by the One Who knows the secrets of the heavens and the earth. Surely He is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” 25:6
These verses fit perfectly into what I have explained (and actually, what I explained is based on these, and on the rest of the Quran). 25:4 - the coverers (disbelievers) vilify the Arabic lectionary I am talking about in this video (which is not the Islamic Quran) 25:5 - they argue that this Arabic lectionary as been taught to the Arabic preacher (Muhammad?) by others (the Judeo-Nazarenes) 25:6 - the Judeo-Nazarenes offered their preacher a counter-argument: they explained that the Arabic lectionary (distinct from the Islamic Quran) constituted divine teaching. This belief stemmed from its being a translation and adaptation of their own Aramaic scriptures, which they considered divine >>> What is it you do not understand there ?
@@wickhunter7733 The whole time thing doesn’t make sense. He’s literally speaking on behalf of his hype skeptical self. The book tells us about people of the book, tells us about the differences in the book. Tells us that it has been changed, and words were moved around from their rightful place. He puts a lot of assumptions, with no basis of truth or logic. He forgets many factors other than the “similar” message, which makes the Quran a miraculous revelation. The Quran predicted the future in many places. The Quran’s linguistic miracle is also a testament to its miraculous nature. Also all he does is he’s showing us how he thinks it’s been made🤣 i can do that more convincingly with about anything since all you’re asking for is just a crooked storyline but good slides.
Excellent indeed
When did the Judeonazarens live and where? Great video!
I have a whole book on this: The Great Secret of Islam. A free PDF version is available on my website, and you can find the hardcopy and ebook on Amazon.
Essentially, we have evidence of the Judeo-Nazarenes’ existence within the Quran, meaning they were active at least until the first half of the 7th century.
Regarding their location, there is evidence of ancient settlements in Syria. It’s also likely that some Judeo-Nazarenes were with the early Arab conquerors, possibly in Jerusalem, Arabia, and along the trade routes used by the Arabs.
Excellent presentation. How does this model of the creation of the Quran fit together with existence of different sects of Islam: Sunni, Shia, Ibadi, and Kharijite.
They all share the same Quran... So they must have emerged after the Quran got finished. Or at least, their final doctrines must have emerged after the making of the Quran.
@@OdonLafontaine Yes, this is my point, but these sects all trace their history back to the time of the first fitna and there are coins with Kharijite slogans in the 690'ties. If it was a commander of the believers who ordered that the creation of Islamic Quran, I would expect that his opposition from the other sects would develop alternative Qurans.
@@PeterHarremoes Take a look at Twelver Shiism: according to its tradition (and to the Sunni tradition), it is supposed to have emerged very early, at the time of Muhammad's succession. However, its definitive doctrine does not appear before the "great occultation" (10th century and beyond). Moreover, it is known that the Abbasid coalition, and thus the Abbasid caliphate, had a strong Shiite component. A Shiite dynasty took control of the caliphate from within it in the 10th century (the Buyids). So I think the real separation between Sunni and Shia dates from that time. That is why they share the same Quran.
@@OdonLafontaine I completely agree with you regarding the Shia. If Shia had been a separate sect before the Abbaside revolution I think the Abbaside Caliphate would have been a Shia Caliphate. There have been opposing political fractions leading to 1st and 2nd fitna, these political differences may later have been used to backdate a much later religious divide. Regarding the Ibadi and Kharijite sects I think it is not so clear since we have these early coins with Kharijite slogans.
The disbelievers say, “This ˹Quran˺ is nothing but a fabrication which he made up with the help of others.” Their claim is totally unjustified and untrue! 25:4
And they say, “˹These revelations are only˺ ancient fables which he has had written down, and they are rehearsed to him morning and evening.” 25:5
Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “This ˹Quran˺ has been revealed by the One Who knows the secrets of the heavens and the earth. Surely He is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” 25:6
amazing thamks
More explanations in my book. Free pdf edition will be released on June 1st. Check my website!
Parabéns! Esplêndido trabalho! 👋👋👋👋👋
Odon are catholic? Is just a curiosity! I'm protestant, but I'm a big fan of your work!
I am an open-minded Catholic. But my book, my reasoning, are not religious. Everyone can understand.
The "Miracle of Quran" Destroyed
Thanks Odon, what we lack is critical thinking. We should ask ourselves, question everything we see and hear. ask Proof, evidence, scientific, rational and logical relevance in todays world.
Doctors, lawyers, Scientists, engineers, accountants are more smart today than 1400 years ago... yet they stand and listen to Imams who are telling them what a 1400 year old book says about life.
The disbelievers say, “This ˹Quran˺ is nothing but a fabrication which he made up with the help of others.” Their claim is totally unjustified and untrue! 25:4
And they say, “˹These revelations are only˺ ancient fables which he has had written down, and they are rehearsed to him morning and evening.” 25:5
Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “This ˹Quran˺ has been revealed by the One Who knows the secrets of the heavens and the earth. Surely He is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” 25:6
These verses fit perfectly into what I have explained (and actually, what I explained is based on these, and on the rest of the Quran).
25:4 - the coverers (disbelievers) vilify the Arabic lectionary I am talking about in this video (which is not the Islamic Quran)
25:5 - they argue that this Arabic lectionary as been taught to the Arabic preacher (Muhammad?) by others (the Judeo-Nazarenes)
25:6 - the Judeo-Nazarenes offered their preacher a counter-argument: they explained that the Arabic lectionary (distinct from the Islamic Quran) constituted divine teaching. This belief stemmed from its being a translation and adaptation of their own Aramaic scriptures, which they considered divine
>>> What is it you do not understand there ?
Zis is ignorant assumption from you 😂 my stomach hurts how you juggle with your logic just to twist it your way it still doesn’t make sense.
How come it doesn't make sense? What don't you understand?
@@thegreatsecretofislam ....................Still waiting for @naifalaida answer 7 months later....😂😂😂
Waiting for your answer 7 months later. 😂😂
@naifalaida3198 What doesn't make sense? You've had 10 months to think about it.
@@wickhunter7733
The whole time thing doesn’t make sense.
He’s literally speaking on behalf of his hype skeptical self.
The book tells us about people of the book, tells us about the differences in the book. Tells us that it has been changed, and words were moved around from their rightful place. He puts a lot of assumptions, with no basis of truth or logic.
He forgets many factors other than the “similar” message, which makes the Quran a miraculous revelation. The Quran predicted the future in many places. The Quran’s linguistic miracle is also a testament to its miraculous nature.
Also all he does is he’s showing us how he thinks it’s been made🤣 i can do that more convincingly with about anything since all you’re asking for is just a crooked storyline but good slides.