The Great Secret of Islam
The Great Secret of Islam
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Decoding the Quran - Odon Lafontaine with Lloyd De Jongh
Studying the Quran reveals numerous inconsistencies and discrepancies within its traditional Islamic interpretation. This interpretation relies heavily on external literature (the sunna or tradition), which constructs a standardized narrative: an Arab prophet receiving divine revelation in pagan Arabia, thereby creating Islam. However, much of this narrative is not only absent from the Quran but often contradicts both the Quranic text and external sources, such as archaeology and early non-Islamic writings.
Moreover, a deeper examination of the Quran’s literal text uncovers meanings that differ significantly from those imposed by the Islamic narrative. Hidden in plain sight, the Quran encodes an alternative history-one that challenges the conventional understanding of its origins.
This is the focus of Odon Lafontaine’s book, The Great Secret of Islam. Lloyd De Jongh has invited him multiple times to his channel to discuss these groundbreaking ideas. This video, edited from an almost 2-hour-long live session between the two, serves as an introduction to the Decoding the Quran series. This series explores the existence of a forgotten Jewish group that played a pivotal role in early Islam, as well as the early Muslim focus on Jerusalem.
▶ Get Odon Lafontaine's "The Great Secret of Islam":
- Free PDF version available on thegreatsecretofislam.com/
- Hardcopy and Kindle versions available on Amazon
▶ Support Odon Lafontaine's work: buymeacoffee.com/thegreatsecretofislam
▶ Lloyd De Jongh's channel: www.youtube.com/@LloydDeJongh
▶ Lloyd and Odon's original 2-hour-long live session: th-cam.com/video/Nn9UqSHcy8M/w-d-xo.html
Timeline:
03:35 - an overview of the Quran
08:34 - why do mainstream scholars fail to understand the Quran?
12:48 - understanding the Quran based on its text
24:57 - the Quran according to the Islamic narrative: introducing the "Jews & Nazarenes" presentation
33:40 - the Islamic narrative's contradictions
53:42 - Introducing the "Jerusalem thesis" presentation
มุมมอง: 271

วีดีโอ

Murad’s Quran translation has arrived!
มุมมอง 611หลายเดือนก่อน
Murad, a native Arabic speaker from the Middle East, has completed an English translation of the Quran based on the principles of scientific exegesis. He built a comprehensive concordance (a reference tool that provides a list of the words used in the text along with their immediate contexts), allowing for a deep understanding of the original meanings of the words before their Islamic interpret...
Robert KERR - The Inârah Institute's discoveries about early Islam
มุมมอง 5092 หลายเดือนก่อน
What have the Inârah scholars discovered concerning early Islam and the creation of the Quran? Dr. Robert Kerr, director of the Inârah Institute, answers this question in a conference organized by the Pfander Center in London, in June 2024. The Inârah Institute for Early Islamic History and the Quran is a research institute dedicated to the scientific, historical-critical, and philological inve...
Understanding the Quran with Murad and Odon Lafontaine
มุมมอง 4.9K5 หลายเดือนก่อน
#TheGreatSecretofIslam Independantly, Murad and Odon Lafontaine have worked on the Quran. Murad, a native Arabic speaker from the Middle East, has completed an English translation of the Quran based on the principles of scientific exegesis. He built a comprehensive concordance (a reference tool that provides a list of the words used in the text along with their immediate contexts), allowing for...
Presentation of the book 'The Great Secret of Islam' - Odon Lafontaine
มุมมอง 6686 หลายเดือนก่อน
#shorts #thegreatsecretofislam The Great Secret of Islam is a book by Odon Lafontaine that offers the general public new insights into Islam from a global perspective. It details and explains the religion’s origins based on scientific and scholarly research. The book is available as a free PDF edition on our website. Hardcopy and ebook editions are also available on Amazon and in Amazon-affilia...
The making of the Quran as a comic strip - Odon Lafontaine
มุมมอง 1.8K2 ปีที่แล้ว
#TheGreatSecretofIslam What is the Quran? How was it made? Odon Lafontaine answers these questions with a comic strip that summarizes a whole array of academic scholarship. See the full "What is the Quran" video here: th-cam.com/video/blLwyAYpBMM/w-d-xo.html ➤ This video was made from a series presentations from Odon Lafontaine on Jay Smith's PfanderFilms channel (source: th-cam.com/play/PL3hYu...
What is the Quran? - A "Nazarene" reading of the Quran (4) - Odon Lafontaine on PfanderFilms
มุมมอง 6312 ปีที่แล้ว
#TheGreatSecretofIslam A thorough Quranic study on the word "quran" gives us the actual meaning of this word in the Quranic text: it does not mean "Islamic Quran", or "Quran of Islam", as Muslims think, but it refers to another book, an Arabic lectionary. This Arabic lectionary was a selection of verses and texts from the "sacred scriptures" (i.e. the Torah, the gospels, and other texts) that h...
Why the invention of Mecca ? - a Sneaker's Corner friendly chat with Bala, Lloyd, Odon, Mel & Paul
มุมมอง 3K3 ปีที่แล้ว
#TheGreatSecretofIslam A live panel discussion with Odon Lafontaine, Paul Ellis, Lloyd de Jongh, Bala, Saint Murad and Mel. The topic: Why did they move to Mecca in the Hejaz? Jay Smith & Saint Murad could not join, unfortunately Source: th-cam.com/video/yRVhQROeICM/w-d-xo.html
Q&A#8 - the Satanic verses - Odon Lafontaine & Jay Smith
มุมมอง 4593 ปีที่แล้ว
#satanicverses #salmanrushdie #TheGreatSecretofIslam What are the Satanic verses? What is there to learn from the controversy about them? Questions were asked about this in the comments by the viewers of videos of Odon & Jay, on Jay Smith Pfander Films TH-cam channel. The verses (53,19-20): Have you thought of al-Lāt and al-‘Uzzá and Manāt, the third, the other? These are the exalted godesses, ...
Q&A#7 - the invention of the Prophet Muhammad - Odon Lafontaine with Jay Smith
มุมมอง 5613 ปีที่แล้ว
#TheGreatSecretofIslam Scholars discovered that Muhammad actually did not exist as the Prophet of Islam in the 7th cent. How and why was his character eventually created ? Questions were asked about this in the comments by the viewers of videos of Odon & Jay, on Jay Smith Pfander Films TH-cam channel. thegreatsecretofislam.com/ Source: th-cam.com/video/bx_7w2aOIv0/w-d-xo.html ➤ Support my work:...
Q&A#6 - the "sexual" interpolations in the Quran - Odon Lafontaine & Jay Smith
มุมมอง 4463 ปีที่แล้ว
#TheGreatSecretofIslam Why is the Quran so "sexually permissive"? What is the origin of the Quranic passages about wife beating or polygamy and sex slaves ? Questions were asked about this in the comments by the viewers of videos of Odon & Jay, on Jay Smith Pfander Films TH-cam channel. Pr. Guillaume Dye gave some answers in his article "Ascetic and Nonascetic Layers in the Qurʾan: A Case Study...
Q&A#5 - the Quranic patchwork - Odon Lafontaine with Jay Smith
มุมมอง 2593 ปีที่แล้ว
#TheGreatSecretofIslam Was the Quran made by a single man? What can we make out of the 'patchworkness' of its texts? How was the Quran created? The questions were asked in the comments by the viewers of videos of Odon & Jay, on Jay Smith Pfander Films TH-cam channel. thegreatsecretofislam.com/ Source: th-cam.com/video/4roWEv4KewM/w-d-xo.html ➤ Support my work: buymeacoffee.com/thegreatsecretofi...
Q&A#4 - Why no diacritics in the first Quranic fragments? - Odon Lafontaine with Jay Smith
มุมมอง 3073 ปีที่แล้ว
#TheGreatSecretofIslam I explained in previous videos with Jay Smith that the Quran was not first preached as the "divine revelation" but it was made lately as a book by the Arab rulers out of the notes and drafts that the preachers who urged them to seize Jerusalem left behind. Those notes and drafts were shorthand scriblings made by the preachers for their personnal use. They were used to pre...
Q&A#3 - the muminun in the Quran - Odon Lafontaine with Jay Smith
มุมมอง 1873 ปีที่แล้ว
#TheGreatSecretofIslam Who are the 'muminum' described in the Quran? Were they Muslims? But did Muslims & Islam already exist in the beginning of the 7th cent.? The question was asked by viewers of the videos Odon & Jay did together on Jay Smith' TH-cam channel, PfanderFilms Source: th-cam.com/video/XFvSnihgKqM/w-d-xo.html ➤ Support my work: buymeacoffee.com/thegreatsecretofislam
Q&A#2 the 'People of the Book' in Q4,171 - Odon Lafontaine with Jay Smith
มุมมอง 2123 ปีที่แล้ว
Q&A#2 the 'People of the Book' in Q4,171 - Odon Lafontaine with Jay Smith
Q&A#1 - the Indian Nasrani - Odon Lafontaine with Jay Smith
มุมมอง 4863 ปีที่แล้ว
Q&A#1 - the Indian Nasrani - Odon Lafontaine with Jay Smith
Coins prove how Islam was actually created by the caliphs /Pt.-3 (Odon Lafontaine on Pfanderfilms 8)
มุมมอง 9873 ปีที่แล้ว
Coins prove how Islam was actually created by the caliphs /Pt.-3 (Odon Lafontaine on Pfanderfilms 8)
Coins prove how Islam was actually created by the caliphs /Pt.-2 (Odon Lafontaine on Pfanderfilms 7)
มุมมอง 6483 ปีที่แล้ว
Coins prove how Islam was actually created by the caliphs /Pt.-2 (Odon Lafontaine on Pfanderfilms 7)
Coins prove how Islam was actually created by the caliphs /Pt.-1 (Odon Lafontaine on Pfanderfilms 6)
มุมมอง 1.4K3 ปีที่แล้ว
Coins prove how Islam was actually created by the caliphs /Pt.-1 (Odon Lafontaine on Pfanderfilms 6)
The Qur'an isn't from Allah - Odon Lafontaine on PfanderFilms 5
มุมมอง 5113 ปีที่แล้ว
The Qur'an isn't from Allah - Odon Lafontaine on PfanderFilms 5
The Qur'an describes the CREATORS OF ISLAM! - Odon Lafontaine on PfanderFilms 4
มุมมอง 7573 ปีที่แล้ว
The Qur'an describes the CREATORS OF ISLAM! - Odon Lafontaine on PfanderFilms 4
Has Odon found the group who helped create Islam - Odon Lafontaine on PfanderFilms 3
มุมมอง 6773 ปีที่แล้ว
Has Odon found the group who helped create Islam - Odon Lafontaine on PfanderFilms 3
Odon decimates the 'Standard Islamic Narrative'! - Odon Lafontaine on Pfranderfilms 2
มุมมอง 4753 ปีที่แล้ว
Odon decimates the 'Standard Islamic Narrative'! - Odon Lafontaine on Pfranderfilms 2
Odon Lafontaine's views on Islam's Origins! - Odon Lafontaine on PfanderFilms 1
มุมมอง 6853 ปีที่แล้ว
Odon Lafontaine's views on Islam's Origins! - Odon Lafontaine on PfanderFilms 1
Islam, The Untold Story - Tom Holland
มุมมอง 120K3 ปีที่แล้ว
Islam, The Untold Story - Tom Holland
Jerusalem & Mecca - A "Nazarene" reading of the Quran (3) - Odon Lafontaine on Sneaker's Corner
มุมมอง 6553 ปีที่แล้ว
Jerusalem & Mecca - A "Nazarene" reading of the Quran (3) - Odon Lafontaine on Sneaker's Corner
the Quranic Nazarenes - A "Nazarene" reading of the Quran (2) - Odon Lafontaine on Sneaker's Corner
มุมมอง 8113 ปีที่แล้ว
the Quranic Nazarenes - A "Nazarene" reading of the Quran (2) - Odon Lafontaine on Sneaker's Corner
the People of the Book - A "Nazarene" reading of the Quran (1) - Odon Lafontaine on Sneaker's Corner
มุมมอง 1K3 ปีที่แล้ว
the People of the Book - A "Nazarene" reading of the Quran (1) - Odon Lafontaine on Sneaker's Corner
An introduction to The Great Secret of Islam, with Mel from Sneaker's Corner
มุมมอง 3.8K3 ปีที่แล้ว
An introduction to The Great Secret of Islam, with Mel from Sneaker's Corner

ความคิดเห็น

  • @rigellion4719
    @rigellion4719 12 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    HALAL in hebrew means void empty , or A space , also used in regard of fallen soldiers ... defined as Halal.Halalim (plural)

  • @asifbrettishmaelmakki9
    @asifbrettishmaelmakki9 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I don't speak arabic.I was wondering,that if a page of a St Murad's quran English translation is taken,and Murad translates it into arabic, will it match the quran arabic page ?

  • @elvenkind6072
    @elvenkind6072 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

    In Britain this was only allowed to be aired once, because of the loud protests of the Muslims.

  • @elvenkind6072
    @elvenkind6072 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

    This video is based on "The Shadow of the Sword" book by Tom Holland - I really recommend it.

  • @SuperCodemeister
    @SuperCodemeister 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I purchased the whole translation. I haven't finished reviewing it, as I am going slowly and looking at the other "translations" to identify the major differences. It's worth the price. ❤

  • @fantomaz1408
    @fantomaz1408 8 วันที่ผ่านมา

  • @fantomaz1408
    @fantomaz1408 8 วันที่ผ่านมา

  • @asifbrettishmaelmakki9
    @asifbrettishmaelmakki9 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Odon,when you said about Sadducess ie dont believe in ressurection. Yet they could still be involved in engineering meanings for arabic quran verses that are about ressurection issues. I did think that Saducess not believing jn ressurection,is because they only live for this life and dont give a dam,if anything is to happen after death. Not to believe in ressurection is also means,not to believe in Christ. If them Sadduces believe in a god,then it suggest their is life after death.

  • @मृत्युंजयविजयनगर
    @मृत्युंजयविजयनगर 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

    SIN Less Bracket less Quran translation 👍❤️

  • @मृत्युंजयविजयनगर
    @मृत्युंजयविजयनगर 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

    प्रणाम 🙏👍❤️🇮🇳🕉️🔱🚩

  • @dopeeast-f7x
    @dopeeast-f7x 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Islam is one of the worst religions of all time. It's the death of progress.

  • @rashidpassion
    @rashidpassion 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Tom is giving all the answers himself .

  • @rashidpassion
    @rashidpassion 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Great effort Tom❤

  • @rashidpassion
    @rashidpassion 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    We see what we want to see . All this research and still a question mark and here we are believing every bit of what we believe .

  • @soapboxingpodcast
    @soapboxingpodcast 12 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Every muslim knows we prayed toward Medina, until Muhammad (pbuh) was able to rid the Kaba of the idols... ask muslims about Islam

  • @soapboxingpodcast
    @soapboxingpodcast 12 วันที่ผ่านมา

    We dont know when arabs became muslim??? Unbelievable...kufar

  • @jarvisshaver638
    @jarvisshaver638 19 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Bunch of war lords as I understand it

  • @PalestineBookCafe
    @PalestineBookCafe 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    christians are not referred to as mushrikeen, they are referred to as Nasreen in the quran (nasreen= Nazareth and also Victors as Jesus resurrected and was of the victors)

  • @BlindRiott
    @BlindRiott 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    - } - -- The Prophet Muhammad’s face, New evidence proves that the Prophet Muhammad was a Homosexual.

  • @TrevinOwens-r5k
    @TrevinOwens-r5k 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

    We have so much evidence for the beginning of Christianity. So much literature and we have nothing for Islam except literature that comes hundreds of years after Muhummed .

  • @WaJaSolitaryFitness
    @WaJaSolitaryFitness 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

    its 11:30pm - im so glad I stumbled upon this. Very interesting.

  • @abamqc
    @abamqc 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

    You did a great work, things are coming to sense, atleast part of it. The People of the book refers to those who have other books Bible and Torah, The believers in this case are those who accept the Rasul or Mohammed(praised one), in this case the king, so in a sense, the Quran tells people to accept the rule book(kitab/law book) of the ruler, so it says, some of those with their own book were good and indeed believers of their rasuls and those who are unbeliever (mushrik) reject the kings and rules. As the religion grew and some of its original purpose of Quran got lost and got corrupted and later Mohammed became a person with his own history and narrative.

  • @abamqc
    @abamqc 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Kingdoms need laws, the Arab kings called themselves as Mohammed Praised one, and Rasul with their laws they say those were from God and people should follow those. Later these get outdated with someone changed all the narrative and later stories being written taken from different kings/rasuls of the past.

  • @abamqc
    @abamqc 29 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Mohammed the praised one that refers the apostles the king or even the Jesus, become a common name and a new religion later.

  • @GMD29
    @GMD29 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I thought this was a video about spider man becoming a Muslim smh🤦‍♂️🤦

  • @wildfire278
    @wildfire278 หลายเดือนก่อน

    LOL you can't find Muhammad on coins he forbade depiction of himself or mention himself on such things. Because he afraid that people idolize him like they did to Jesus... Today Christians pray to Jesus' sculpture instead of Allah/God...

  • @wildfire278
    @wildfire278 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Muhammad doesn't need to know what an olive is. Allah knows everything...So much bias and misinformation...

  • @bablumiah2062
    @bablumiah2062 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Muslims were forbidded to depict the prophet muhammad, or make images image

  • @bablumiah2062
    @bablumiah2062 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The quran isn't the life of prophet mohammed phup.

  • @bablumiah2062
    @bablumiah2062 หลายเดือนก่อน

    2. Non-Muslim Contemporary Accounts a. Byzantine and Syriac Sources 1. Doctrina Jacobi (c. 635 CE) A Christian polemic written shortly after Muhammad's death mentions an Arab prophet leading his people, emphasizing monotheism. It describes events during the Islamic conquests. 2. Thomas the Presbyter (c. 640 CE) A Syriac Christian chronicler referred to a "battle of the Arabs of Muhammad" near Gaza in 634 CE, one of the earliest non-Muslim mentions of Muhammad. 3. Sebeos (c. 660 CE) An Armenian bishop recorded the rise of Islam, describing Muhammad as a merchant who preached monotheism and led the Arabs. b. Persian Records Persian sources, like those from the Sassanid Empire, describe the Islamic conquests of Persia following the Battle of Qadisiyyah (636 CE). --- 3. Archaeological Evidence a. Early Islamic Inscriptions 1. The Zabad Inscription (623 CE) An Arabic inscription referencing early Islamic practices, predating many historical accounts. 2. The Dome of the Rock (691 CE) Built by Caliph Abd al-Malik, it contains Quranic inscriptions that highlight Islamic beliefs, including the monotheism preached by Muhammad. b. Early Islamic Coins Coins from the Umayyad Caliphate (7th century) bear the inscription “Muhammad is the Messenger of God,” indicating the rapid spread of Islam. --- 4. Islamic Conquests and Political Records The Rashidun Caliphate (632-661 CE) expanded Islam's reach rapidly, creating administrative systems and documenting treaties and governance practices. Treaties such as the one with Jerusalem (637 CE) under Caliph Umar show the practical application of Islamic teachings. --- 5. Summary of Evidence Islam's emergence is well-documented by: Muslim sources like the Quran, Hadith, and the Constitution of Medina. Contemporary accounts by Christians, Jews, and other neighboring civilizations. Archaeological artifacts, including inscriptions and coins.

  • @bablumiah2062
    @bablumiah2062 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The proof is in your own museum the the birmingham manuscript

  • @bablumiah2062
    @bablumiah2062 หลายเดือนก่อน

    1. Core Beliefs (Iman) Islam is founded on six core beliefs: 1. Belief in Allah (God): The oneness of Allah as the only Creator, Sustainer, and Sovereign. 2. Belief in Angels: Spiritual beings created by Allah, carrying out His commands (e.g., Gabriel). 3. Belief in Scriptures: Allah revealed holy books to guide humanity, including the Quran (final revelation). 4. Belief in Prophets: Allah sent prophets, including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad (peace be upon them all). Muhammad is the final prophet. 5. Belief in the Day of Judgment: All will be resurrected and judged for their deeds. 6. Belief in Divine Decree (Qadar): Allah’s knowledge and control of everything; human free will operates within His decree. --- 2. Pillars of Islam (Practical Duties) The five pillars represent the framework of a Muslim's life: 1. Shahada (Faith): Declaration of faith: “There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is His messenger.” 2. Salah (Prayer): Five daily prayers to maintain a connection with Allah. 3. Zakat (Charity): Obligatory almsgiving to purify wealth and help the needy. 4. Sawm (Fasting): Fasting during Ramadan to foster self-discipline and spiritual growth. 5. Hajj (Pilgrimage): Once-in-a-lifetime pilgrimage to Mecca for those who can afford it. --- 3. Quran and Sunnah (Sources of Guidance) Quran: The holy book revealed to Prophet Muhammad, containing laws, guidance, and wisdom for humanity. Sunnah: The teachings, sayings, and actions of Prophet Muhammad, recorded in Hadith collections. --- 4. Key Teachings of Islam Tawhid (Monotheism): Worship Allah alone; no partners or intermediaries. Morality: Honesty, kindness, patience, humility, and justice. Avoid lying, theft, and harming others. Social Justice: Care for the poor, oppressed, and vulnerable; prohibition of exploitation. Respect for Family and Community: Importance of family ties, good treatment of parents, and peaceful coexistence. Prohibition of Harmful Acts: No stealing, cheating, intoxication, or harmful behavior. --- 5. Worship and Spirituality Dua (Supplication): Personal prayers to Allah. Dhikr (Remembrance): Repeating phrases of praise, such as “SubhanAllah” (Glory be to Allah), to stay mindful of Him. Repentance (Tawbah): Constantly seeking forgiveness for sins and striving for self-improvement. --- 6. Ethics and Law (Sharia) Sharia is the comprehensive Islamic legal and ethical system based on the Quran and Sunnah. Rights of Individuals: Justice, equality, and dignity. Economic Justice: Prohibition of interest (usury), encouragement of fair trade, and wealth redistribution. Environmental Responsibility: Preservation of Allah's creation as a trust. --- 7. Ultimate Goal The ultimate purpose of life in Islam is to worship Allah, live righteously, and strive for eternal success in the afterlife (Jannah, or Paradise). ---

  • @bablumiah2062
    @bablumiah2062 หลายเดือนก่อน

    In The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History, Michael H. Hart explained his decision to place Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) at the top of the list. Here's a summary of his reasoning: 1. Unique Combination of Religious and Secular Leadership Hart emphasized that Muhammad was uniquely successful in both the religious and secular realms. Unlike figures such as Jesus or Buddha, whose influence was primarily spiritual, Muhammad was also a remarkable political and military leader. 2. Founding and Spreading Islam Muhammad founded Islam, one of the world's major religions, and played a key role in spreading its teachings. He unified the Arabian Peninsula under Islam, which later expanded to become a global civilization. 3. Author of the Quran Hart pointed out that Muhammad was directly responsible for the Quran, Islam's holy scripture. While the Quran is viewed by Muslims as divinely revealed, Hart noted Muhammad's central role in conveying its message and shaping its content. 4. Lasting Influence Islam remains one of the

  • @user-yz1dl3eu8l
    @user-yz1dl3eu8l หลายเดือนก่อน

    43:00 ''mushrikun are Christians", it is a deduction of some readers. The Quran never says it. So you cannot take into account a deduction never stated by the text and confront it with the text. It is yet what you do when you say (44:30) that "the Christians do not belong to the people of the Book". You act as if the text said that mushrikun= Christians. But you're wrong, it does not say that. It is *you* who says that. It is then logical that the mushrikun are not part of the people of the Book. But Christians who is reading the text will automatically think that he is belonging to the people of Book as he is not consider himself a mushrikun. But the Quran does *without saying it* . Second: To the contrary, the Nasara are not said part of the people of the Book by the Quran. Where is that??? You're wronging. From this moment all your reasoning is wrong; the Nasara are Christians (Q 9:30), they have monks, etc. They are also 'mushrikun' because they 'associates' Jesus with God. But it is a deduction, it is not said by the Quran. It does not want to state the link. Why? Because its readers are Christians, that's the reason.

    • @thegreatsecretofislam
      @thegreatsecretofislam หลายเดือนก่อน

      If you refuse to consider any logical deductions, there's no point in trying to understand the Quran. Consequently, everything you argue about it holds no value according to your own logic

    • @user-yz1dl3eu8l
      @user-yz1dl3eu8l หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@thegreatsecretofislam Explain why the text do not say : 'Nasara are mushrikun' whereas you and me know that they are because the text state it (Q 9,30)

    • @thegreatsecretofislam
      @thegreatsecretofislam หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@user-yz1dl3eu8l Because the text slanders Christians and refuses to acknowledge them as the true "disciples of the Messiah", it cannot use the term "masihun" to refer to them, as doing so would implicitly validate their identity as "disciples of the Messiah", which is the Arabic meaning of "masihun" (etymologically "Christians"). Additionally, your question contradicts your own logic since you refuse to make sense of the Quran. So why even bother asking it?

    • @user-yz1dl3eu8l
      @user-yz1dl3eu8l หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@thegreatsecretofislam Second. I do not refuse (at all) deduction (i deduct myself that 'mushrikun' = nasara). What I point out is that the Quran never state this obvious point: what he describes about 'nasara' is 'shirk' (Q 9,30-31) but it never state it. That's what is interesting. Why it does not do it? Because its readers are nasara, they are Christians and it wants to keep it ambiguous. It has no choice.

    • @user-yz1dl3eu8l
      @user-yz1dl3eu8l หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@thegreatsecretofislam I have another explanation to this: the Quran is targeting a Christian public readers to dechristianise it. It need to remains ambiguous. This ambiguity worked. Christians Arab readers have believed what the text wanted to persuade them.

  • @johnlee7699
    @johnlee7699 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is very well edited and presented 👏 💯👍 Merci et Adieu Benisse 🙏

  • @user-yz1dl3eu8l
    @user-yz1dl3eu8l หลายเดือนก่อน

    36:00 The thing of 'people of the book' is a maelstrom where you never go out. Trying to deduct what it means exactly is impossible and build something on it, whereas you do not understand clearly what it means is a false premise and lead to misconceptions of the text.

    • @thegreatsecretofislam
      @thegreatsecretofislam หลายเดือนก่อน

      I disagree. I have worked extensively on this issue, focusing on the literal text of the Quran with the help of Aramaic and Arabic specialists and using concordance tools. I am currently writing an academic article to explain my hypothesis in detail. Additionally, there will soon be videos with Murad on this very topic.

    • @user-yz1dl3eu8l
      @user-yz1dl3eu8l หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@thegreatsecretofislam That's what I say : ' I have worked extensively on this issue' that is the issue. I consider it accessory and not an 'important' point as I consider that what the authors may say is not always deliberately clear. When they want to be clear, they perfectly are. It is wanted from their part, it's a bone to pick for the reader to make him reflect but it leads to nothing significant. I'll wait for your academic article.

    • @thegreatsecretofislam
      @thegreatsecretofislam หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@user-yz1dl3eu8l It becomes clear if you are willing to consider all mentions of kitab (such as ahl al-kitab, alladhina ataynahumu al-kitab, alladhina utu al-kitab, etc.). There will be more videos, as well as the article I’m working on, to explain this issue in detail.

    • @user-yz1dl3eu8l
      @user-yz1dl3eu8l หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@thegreatsecretofislam I included the mentions of 'kitab' in my remarks. It is left to the reader what does that exactly mean. Because there are many 'kitab' around and the authors know it very well. They left deliberately the reader alone with this ; it is to him to choose what book ; then it depends of what reader read the text. The vagueness of the word allow different interpretation which depends of what is the cultural identity of the reader.

    • @thegreatsecretofislam
      @thegreatsecretofislam หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@user-yz1dl3eu8l I disagree. The contextual verses of the kitab occurences paint a clear picture: they are Jews.

  • @user-yz1dl3eu8l
    @user-yz1dl3eu8l หลายเดือนก่อน

    30:20.Christian are considered as 'mushrikun' in the Quran: it is not an elaboration of the tradition but a comprehension of Arabs in 718 : evidence of this are the inscriptions of the the Kos Island (Imbert 2013).

  • @user-yz1dl3eu8l
    @user-yz1dl3eu8l หลายเดือนก่อน

    12:12 Sometimes the Quran simply lies to its readers. That is why the informations it provides have to be carefully examined and left aside if not clear.

  • @asifbrettishmaelmakki9
    @asifbrettishmaelmakki9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Odan,do you think that Joseph and Jacob names in the arabic quran, could potentially be referring to Joseph as in Jesu's dad, and Jacob as in Jesu's grandad in some of the Qur'anic verse's as in context? And could prophet Hud character ,be not a prophet, yet Hud is a form of Hadu or Ya-Hudi.They are the same root of Ha.W.D ?

    • @SerYanOto
      @SerYanOto หลายเดือนก่อน

      Correction of your English: Jesus'

    • @asifbrettishmaelmakki9
      @asifbrettishmaelmakki9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @SerYanOto I was thinking that because we do call Jesus as Jesu also, then Jesu's could mean belonging to Jesus or all is Jesuses.

    • @thegreatsecretofislam
      @thegreatsecretofislam หลายเดือนก่อน

      The Quranic Joseph is derived from the biblical figure Joseph, the son of Jacob. The same applies to Jacob, who is derived from the biblical figure Jacob, the son of Isaac. As for Hud, the Arabic seems clear enough to refer to a specific figure. I haven’t explored his connections with Judaism.

    • @asifbrettishmaelmakki9
      @asifbrettishmaelmakki9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @thegreatsecretofislam In quran it's Yusuf and Yakoob. Jesus dad is a Yusuf and same with Jesus dad's dad he is a Yakoob.Thats what I mean. In Surah Maryam,it mentions a Yakoob/Jacob. It's possible that Mary had met that Yakoob hence the reason it is mentioned. Holy Bible does not mention much about Jesus dad or Grandad, so is it potentially possible that the Qur'an is.

    • @thegreatsecretofislam
      @thegreatsecretofislam หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@asifbrettishmaelmakki9 I find it very difficult to argue Surah 19's Jacob would refers to another Jacob than Jacob son of Isaac. Its only mention in this Surah is put in the lips of Zechariah, asking God for an heir who would "inherit from the family of Jacob", meaning Israel.

  • @Ower8x
    @Ower8x หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hey Odon I was the one that brought up the Sadducees, I agree we know little of the group and they seem to have disappeared soon after the Temple was destroyed. But the things we know about them doe seem relevant to the discussion about the Authors of the Quoran, after all the ideas and belief can easily outlive the original group. Specifically there are 3 things the sources we have seem to agree on 1. They rejected rewards and punishment after death, and either rejected the idea of afterlife completely or believed in Sheol 2. They were connected to the Temple and the Upper Jewish circles, a minority that had a lot of influence 3. They rejected oral traditions and additions (what the Pharisees termed the Oral Torah) insisting on following the scripture as revealed which is the sole authority (Hey Lloyd if you sees this sounds familiar, doesnt it) 1. we can ignore as that does not seem to have survived the group 2. and 3. do warrant some consideration through in my opinion 2. The Sadducees are said to be mainly composed by members of the priesthood and or the higher classes connected to the temple, and were never that popular with the jewish masses, which is why the group looses its justification for existence after the destruction of the Temple, but the survivors would yearn for the reclaiming of Jerusalem and the rebuilding of the Temple ... as that would restore their source of influence and it would certainly be even stronger than the average Jewish desire. If you had Sadduceeic converts to a Messianic Jewish or a Judeo-Chistian group or even on founded by such converts they would have brought that desire with them this would of course change over time, and with being exposed to other influences, but I could see it as being the source of the desire to conquer Jerusalem and Rebuild the Temple. 3. From what I could find the main disagreement between the Pharisees and Sadducees was what was called at the time the Oral Torah ... Pharisees believed there were commandments and instructions, that were not written down in the scripture, but passed down by tradition outside of and is just as binding as what is in the scripture, which is something the Sadducees were opposed to, stating only the scripture is the only and final authority and should be taken as reviled. They were accused by the Pharisees to hold to this only so they could interpret Scripture as they wish (Again shout out to Lloyd if he sees this ... this does sound quite familiar does it not ) As time went on the Oral Torah would be collected and codified into the Talmud ... this does sound as the origin of the "Coverers" in the Quran those who cover up the scripture As well as for the insistence that the Quoran believes in the scripture as it was reveled In addition this would fit with the idea Mel brought up that the Jinn in the Quoran is an insulting term for the Geonim the headmasters of Pharisaic Academies in Iraq. as stated as I see it its quite likely the Judeo-Nazarenes/Quoranic -Nazarenes you talk about originate in a Mesianic Jewis /Judeo Chrisian group that was influenced by Sadduceeic believes. Of course there would be other influences ... or sources that would be included in the Quoran as you point out, Gnostic Stories, Jewish Folklore, so I am not claiming this is a Sadduceeic pure group, but that such believes were foundational for the group but latter changed over time with additional influences affecting them.

    • @asifbrettishmaelmakki9
      @asifbrettishmaelmakki9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Hi.I have not seen this video yet.Are you suggesting that the Sadducees could have created the religion of Islam?

    • @Ower8x
      @Ower8x หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@asifbrettishmaelmakki9 to a certain extent Indirectly. And it would not be the only group whose influences Islam Islam as we know it is more a product of the Abbasid and later interpolations upon the Quran, with the Hadith and Sirah and such. I am taking in context of Odons view, with which I do agree, that a large part of the Quoran originates with a Judeo Christian / Messianic Jewish group that was trying to facilitate an alliance with the Arabs for the purpose of reclaiming Jerusalem and Rebuilding the temple. Stating that the group could very likely been influenced by Sadduceeic beliefs These texts would later be compiled together with others by the Umayyads specifically Abdul Malik into the Quoran ... and later imposed an external narrative by the Abbasids and latter which gives rise to Islam

    • @asifbrettishmaelmakki9
      @asifbrettishmaelmakki9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @Ower8x Ok.Due to saying that the Sadducees vanish,i felt they may not have vanished,but warped into something else. Ps.I have a hunch that some quran chapters where about before Muhammad' birth.I think chapter Maryam could be Mary's actual book,actual book as in she spoke that Arabic quran language. Quran says she had a book,lol so i thought that chapter is her book.

    • @asifbrettishmaelmakki9
      @asifbrettishmaelmakki9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @Ower8x I do understand tho,that the islamic muhammad character,has not been identified in the historical timeline,that is outside of the Islamic narrative,and the four MHMD's potentially are primarily a reference to Jesus.

    • @Ower8x
      @Ower8x หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@asifbrettishmaelmakki9 possible, through I dont hold the view that the Sadducees transformed into something else, their claim to Relevance was the Temple with its destruction their influence vanished. What I find more likely is that these believes came via converts ... Sadducees that became Judeo-Christian/Mesianic Jews Almost certainly we know the stories like the Sleepers of Ephesus, The Gnostic stories, they are from way before the creation of the Quoran. Like the Bible the Quoran is a compilation, of works that were written before. As for the Book given to Mary .. to me that sounds like a misunderstanding or twisting of the Christian belief f Word became Flesh. In orthodox (small o meaning) view Mary did receive the Word of God when Word became flesh ie Jesus ... In that sense she was a bearer of Gods Word

  • @johnmcguire4635
    @johnmcguire4635 หลายเดือนก่อน

    A masterful deconstruction of Islam! (Do Judaism next!)

  • @raisatainan
    @raisatainan หลายเดือนก่อน

    Parabéns! Esplêndido trabalho! 👋👋👋👋👋 Odon are catholic? Is just a curiosity! I'm protestant, but I'm a big fan of your work!

    • @thegreatsecretofislam
      @thegreatsecretofislam หลายเดือนก่อน

      I am an open-minded Catholic. But my book, my reasoning, are not religious. Everyone can understand.

  • @orunabho
    @orunabho หลายเดือนก่อน

    Beautiful discussion.

  • @shivaslilgsunlimited7507
    @shivaslilgsunlimited7507 หลายเดือนก่อน

    21:09 🤯

  • @Hesham_MK
    @Hesham_MK หลายเดือนก่อน

    Robert Kerr starts with a unknown islamic history that I have never heard or read. What are his credentials if I may ask?

    • @thegreatsecretofislam
      @thegreatsecretofislam หลายเดือนก่อน

      He’s a linguist specializing in ancient Middle Eastern languages (Punic, Aramaic, Hebrew, Arabic, and others). He taught Islamology at Laurier in Canada and is now the director of the Inârah Institute at Saarland University in Germany. You’ll find all the relevant links in the video description to explore further.

  • @jma7600
    @jma7600 หลายเดือนก่อน

    We are now closer to discovering who wrote this book and why.

    • @thegreatsecretofislam
      @thegreatsecretofislam หลายเดือนก่อน

      I have made a significant claim regarding the discovery of the authors of the Quran. Take a look at my channel and my book.

  • @jma7600
    @jma7600 หลายเดือนก่อน

    With this literal translation the already incoherent Quran becomes totally incomprehensible.

    • @Ower8x
      @Ower8x หลายเดือนก่อน

      that is because this is purely arabic translation ... but the quran is not purely arabic

    • @thegreatsecretofislam
      @thegreatsecretofislam หลายเดือนก่อน

      Actually, it restores some of the original meaning. However, to be properly understood, the Quran needs to be studied within its actual 6th-7th century historical and religious context. One also need to understand its non-Arabic vocabulary (mostly Aramaic, but the Quran uses other languages also). This is what I aimed to do in my book.

  • @Spacepotatooo
    @Spacepotatooo หลายเดือนก่อน

    I read his sample.. i do wish he wouldve put the arabic transliterated word next to the brackets with (?).. as usama dakdok did.. usama dakdok took all the disputed non arabic words and left them in "arabic"(transliterated them) and at the bottom of each page gave possible meanings.. wouldve been a lot easier to study if hed done that

  • @asifbrettishmaelmakki9
    @asifbrettishmaelmakki9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Yeh,what St Murad said about deen and debt.I have read that deen refers to debt,as in, to show gratitude for a favour done.

  • @ranyyounes9175
    @ranyyounes9175 หลายเดือนก่อน

    PETRA IS THE KEY.❤