Why Does Nobody Speak Truth About The Prusa I3 Mk.3? - It's Overhyped and Over Priced.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 เม.ย. 2024
- EDIT: Yes, the Prusa was turned up to 236% print speed, but the Focoos was also turned up to 235% I did not make 70mm/s was too slow to elicit the ghosting response I wanted. Therefore, starting with the Prusa I increased the speed factor to 236%. I explicitly talked about it at the 30:06 timestamp saying "The original file was set to be 70mm/s up here, print speed, and I printed at 236% so that's like 150 or so -ish mm/s" Then, when I was talking about the Chinese printer I said at 32:42 "I did up the speed also on this one to 235%" Therefore, the test is valid as both gcode files had the top speed set to 70mm/s and then both machines were run at 235mm/s. The comparison is fair.
For Prusa Fanboys it's not really about the printer. It's a populist political groupthink quasi-religious thing. I think it is post rationalization to avoid buyers remorse. They spent too much on their printer and don't want to feel stupid so they justify it by calling the Mk.3 "the best" and then they attack anyone who dares to say otherwise.
Both printers were run at 235% print speed: I talked about it in the vide here 30:06 and here 32:42. Stop leaving comments saying "gotcha" if you haven't watched the entire video
This channel has a long history of criticizing Prusa and because nobody else is willing to say these things (for fear of the toxic Prusa mob) Design Prototype Test has become a punching bag in many 3D printer forums across the internet. I have been branded as an unreasonable hater of Prusa. Let's see what happens when I actually get my hands on a Prusa I3 Mk.3.
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I bought a SL1 kit.
The manual was amazingly written!
It even mentioned mistakes which can happen during the assembly and told the user, that he doesnt have to be afraid, if he damages that one part, because there is a spare part in the spare part bag for exactly that case!
And they have some little jokes.
The steps are very detailed and all with pictures. For a complete beginner, this was awesome!
Whoever writes these manuals at prusa, deserves a rise!
No downplaying here!
Also the support is very good.
I had one part damaged and got a replacement for it in a couple of short days (mailing of course takes abit time).
The support guy was very friendly and even up for jokes, when I asked for more gummybears, because mine "disappeared" : D
(His response was, that they cant fetch me some over the weekend, because the gummybears are outside to get some air)
I'm upvoting because you seem like a nice fellow and you are respectful. You had a different experience than I did and you just want to share that. I can appreciate all of that and I can appreciate you for being a decent human being. Not calling me names or questioning my character. Have a great day!
@@DesignPrototypeTest IMO, your critiques of the manual are petty. At least it's all there and you can opt not to use it. I personally appreciated it as it was heads and heals above most everything else. Including the outtakes.
Straight hater and come on man really taking 40min to put up frame. I recently got into 3d printing with mk3s being my first. Dont be one of those guys who half-assed reading directions then complain and critique installation. In the directions you would have seen a cheat sheet in which those assortment of hardware could have been used as a reference to know which hardware was needed during certain parts of assembly. I've printed nonstop with it close year now and besides basic maintenance, which every machine needs, definitely hasn't let me down though its printing is slow. And no I'm not a sock muppet
My favorite part about this comment is that "Prusa"'s resin printer line wasn't his work. It was a machine designed and built by Futur3D who was acquired by Prusa.
The reason that the instruction manual is so detailed is because high IQ makers (such as yourself) manage to put the spool holder on backwards.
Also your Z-motor caps somehow ended up at the top of your lead screws... Probably not your fault though, the instructions were too detailed for you to comprehend.
Anyways, I'm about to go eat some gummy bears off of my genuine Prusa PEI metal build plate.
Happy Printing!
😂😂😂
Haha I love this comment
I laugh but it's really not that funny. Putting my Prusa together you can toggle on the comments section of the online manual. Some of the comments I've read of others putting the Prusa together just made me wanna go rescue three Prusas from impending doom. Dont know if these folks are let's just say..... Let's just not say.
Mannnn...somehow I put the Z motor caps on the top of the lead screws too. It just didn't seem right, but I think there were revisions in my instructions that I didn't look up so yeah, I screwed up. They're still there after 1 year lol. Everything else went perfect. But it was a pretty easy install....though I've been a designer and builder my entire life. My old man and I just finished building our second airplane that took about 2,200 hours (first one took almost 4,000 hours).
I agree with both sides of this argument however I think the reason this happened is with extremely detailed instructions people tend to skip steps though him saying he is high iq is kind of egotistical
"Instructions are too detailed"
- Doesn't read that the legends on the screw bags are at scale.
- Doesn't read that the latest manual is on the website.
- Installs Z leadscrew covers wrong.
Maybe they weren't that detailed after all 😂
yeah i started the video after 6' of whining about the manual beeing to detailed I stopped watching this and will block this channel as there is nothing good coming out of here.
Right? I'm amazed he allowed comments. He gets butt hurt if you don't revere him as the God of 3D printing. 😂😅
yeah, the instructions are the best part of the printer. they make it stupid proof
I made it to 3:45 laughed stopped watching and read the comments, 0 useful info from this channel
dam guys i made it to 41 mins, and I want to punch myself in the face. I really hate the TH-cam removed the thumbs down button count. I have been false starting on purchasing a 3D printer. So many websites, recommend Prusa, I can't believe "Prusa has controlled them all" :| .
As someone who writes manuals for 3D printer assembly kits, yes it DOES need to that level of detail. As someone with a lot of knowledge of 3D printers like yourself, you are among the very top of people who have enough knowledge to be able to do this kind of assembly with a shorter, concise guide but everyone else is greatly benefiting. Every one of those extra steps is guaranteed because multiple people have had issues with that. You can best see this in their online guide, where people can add comments. When there are too many comments on a point, the online guides get updated accounting for that feedback.
You have to play it a bit of both ways. If you go into too much detail, you risk people skipping steps. But not enough details is the larger risk of having a bigger group assembling the printer wrong, potentially causing damage or the like. You can see that here as well, I don't know if this is in the booklet, but the online guide has an introduction guide, explaining things like using labels for screw size referencing or what the joseph prusa logo means (it means using a screw pulling technique. It's SUPER dumb, and should by all accounts have been an iconographised version of said technique)
I would also note that having a printed guide is a bad idea. The online guide is much better, reflecting updated parts etc. You can't update printed guides as easily to address changed parts or explain things better. We don't provide printed/PDF guides of our assembly manual for that reason: being able to update it easily. Because of current global shipping problems, the printer someone gets can be weeks or months old, and so any updates to the guides would be at best as outdated.
NEVER overestimate the user's knowledge and ability
I love printed manuals. I often assemble things far away from a computer, and I'm not going to use my phone for such things, as they usually cause more frustration than help on such a small display.
@@IrocZIV the manuals we have have a ton of video material that's quite key in the assembly so that also plays a huge factor in our case. But I do agree that sometimes it's not handy
@@nickolasgomes703 Also never under estimate the stupidity of some people :) lol
Printers have manuals?? oh that's the book like wordy thing I use to prop up one corner of the printer because they don't come with adjustable feet......
"What is the best 3D printer that you can get?". I have never heard anyone say "Prusa" in answer to that. When the question is "I'm new to 3D printers, and don't want to waste time doing mods all day, what is the best printer you can get for under $1,000", then, yes, the MK3S+ kit is frequently the answer.
"There could be..." is a series of very weak arguments.
You complain about having detailed instructions? WTF, dude? The instructions are written in a manner to help everyone from the novice to the expert.
Why did you not read the labels on the darn baggie? All you gotta do is hold the item up the label on the bag to figure out what size it is (the pictures are to scale). It even says so in the detailed instructions that you obviously didn't read (page 9 from what I see online). They even include a separate cheat sheet of all of these small screws and such with scale drawings. Lame and lazy journalism.
Your yellow journalism is so evident, I can't even finish the video.
I see a lot of you are coming to this video in the last hour from an outside source. Can you tell me what brought you here?
@@DesignPrototypeTest The internet.
@@sh00ting5tar This doesn't help. I think that was your intent, right?
@@DesignPrototypeTest I came here because it’s laughable to see your opinions on products you don’t like. I think most people click on your videos because your views are so polarizing it’s more shock value entertainment rather than informative.
Dude. You appear to be addicted to drama stuck in the one up one down dynamic in how you talk. Please Let go of deciding for everyone what’s good or bad and just share what you like and don’t like. You’re very bright and have good insights… I have such a hard time taking them in having to filter out your social positioning. Please don’t give attention to your detractors and their “hurtful” comments. They live for your attention negative or not. And focusing on someone else’s ego just amplifies your own and it’s insecurities.
This
yeah, he seems kind of ego himself but some of his points are legitimate. Just shitting on a niche product for small faults is not really good
Love and hate are really the same emotion.
I’m one of the newbies who bought a Prusa , I also talk to newbies who bought an ender #. And if you are not intending to become a printer/process/adjust specialist then I still think my choice was the best. Now after 1000hours of printing the only things needed to be exchanged (if any at all) are timing belts and X and Y bearings. Take a Haribo and relax, that is better for your blood pressure 😊
I have use my mk3s+ more than 6000 hours now and I don't change a single screw. My belt tensions are still perfect and bearings seems fine. I still have perfect prints. Why do you change the belt and the bearings? What is the problem?
You made the right choice friend, you spend more time “upgrading” and repairing a creality printer than you do actually printing anything.
@@recreant359 That is SOOOOOOOO freakin' true!
Definitely the same. I have a Prusa that printed over 8000 hours without change anything. This guy only hate Prusa and we can hear it from his words what he say. 😕 I´m also happy to support a Company that producing in Europe.
@@mustafaerinanc2893 Many of the earlier printers came with cheap belts, cheap linear bearings and unhardened rods. The cheap belts were prone to stretching even under the light loads the printers put them under, the cheap linear bearings were prone to seizing up, and the unhardened rods would often develop grooves because of the cheap bearings. Prusa Research later changed to Gates 2GT belts, better bearings, and hardened steel rods which largely solved all these problems.
There is a lot of square hits that you can take at Prusa and you took a few of them, but this feels more like a hit piece. "I'm smart and don't need detailed instructions", "my inner child is dead and I'm insulted by the haribo gummy bears", "the open source rep rap project is old", "Prusa's branding is and logo is unsettling because it's a picture of joseph PRUSA", "It's antiquated", "it's overly complicated". You make some solid points about it's build time, It has a few design flaws, and It could pick up some key features. However, it's able to print very accurately and at high speeds, and there is value in open source. I just upgraded my extruder for free. You even attacked it's bed for it's I3 design for it's speed while holding up a much slower I3 design. Please be fair in your side by side comparisons. You also cheated in your side by side print by making the prusa infill so that it appears to be just as slow, why?
"Maybe there's a ruler or guage for measuring the nuts and bolts", he says while holding the bag that has the nuts and bolts printed on them to scale 🤣 I don't think you're on solid ground complaining that the instructions are overly detailed when you've failed to read them.
I'm no prusa fanboy, I'm pretty upset at them for the mk3s upgrade that made my printer significantly worse due to filament path issues, closing the issue 602 without admitting fault, a textured plate that nothing would stick to unless you scuffed it, ghost crashes on Y in enclosures, the list goes on and on and on. But their instructions are definitely not a problem. They're very well done.
agreed
the textured plate only really works well with PETG, the smooth and satin are needed for basically everything else.
@@nateschmitz9827 Trust me, I've tried the textured plate with petg. Nothing, and I really do mean nothing sticks to mine. My satin plate works flawlessly. And my smooth pei works pretty great too, even though adhesion is often too strong for petg. In my opinion, the textured sheet was a complete misfire. But I've heard you can get great results if you scuff it.
@@assumptionsoup I'm one of the "mine works fine" people who likes to point out that you really have to squish PETG on the textured sheet. ;-)
I wouldn't scuff it, but I've heard people use 3Dlac for better adhesion.
There's also a full page sheet available, I can't remember if it's included now but it's printable.
I assembled my Prusa, immediately ran my first FDM prints with only basic automatic calibrate and have been effortlessly printing since. Sometimes it sits there for a month. I just turn it on and go.
It's exactly that !
Got an Ender 3 before and have to tweak it everytime... And if I want to print after some days, have to tweak it and test it.
Here with the MK3S+, it just work. It's a wonderfull machine.
I'm not a Prusa fanboy (I'm for 4 years Ender 3 owner, which I'm happy with), but I'm from the Czech Republic. And, sorry, but you don't know s**t about my country. We only experienced 40 years of communist s**t and Soviet Union pressure after WWII. I suppose our hatred for the USSR, communism and that particular way of exercising power was and is much stronger than yours in the US - because we experienced what it means.
Regarding Josef Prusa - it's just that Josef was "sacrificed" as a trademark/mascot of the company. Apart from him, the company is also run by his brother, plus another member of the same name Prusa who is not part of the family of both brothers. It's just a funny name coincidence. And Joseph simply builds the name of the company and put his face (or his appearance) as a stake in the appreciation of the company. Maybe I personally wouldn't be willing to do that for a business.
And in reference to both previous paragraphs, your comparison of Josef Prusa to Putin is completely off the mark for me. It is even very disgusting. Sorry, I wasn't able to watch your video further.
My opinion is that you misinterpreted JP's business strategy and then based on that you constructed a theory about an egotistical creature, which you then brought to the point of comparing him to Putin and calling the Czech Republic almost a part of Russia. Both of which are completely off the mark.
Yeh, the part where he basically said 'czech people are like this' ? Super xenophobic. I was enjoying the banter until that point.
@@djcreedyable I have no idea what xenophobic is but I agree that making claims based on someone's home country or origins is kinda racist
Yeah these are the comments he simply ignores. I'm too very disgusted by his foolish and simplified statements about the Czech, which he clearly has no insights in.
@@jeffyboi8131 literally "fear of strangers". Like racism but more general. Basically people from different countries or cultures.
This guy is an awful person. Just go through his old videos. He slanders and attacks people he is jealous of or who doesn't give him free stuff.
You assembeld it the wrong way. The back kaps should go at the bottom of the z-axis onto the motor.
I'm not a prusa fanboy, but full disclosure: I do own a prusa as well as a few other printers. Just like everything else, Prusa printers have their good and bad points... I made it 6 minutes into the video, and it's very apparent that this guy is only complaining just so he can be different and feel "special". Your complaints up to date is 1) the manual is too detailed (it is not), 2) "have" to measure the screws (??? so what?), 3) too many picture of the founder in the book (see #2), 4) they have some fun with some candy they included in the package (see #2)... Honestly, you've completely missed the point of buying a kit vs the assembled product... A person of your intellect and stature should have gone with the assembled product!!!
I think this is probably the first time I comment on a video without watching the whole thing, but I've given this video too much of my time already... I've got nothing to gain by watching any longer. My takeaway from this video is that this guy is lacking something in his life, and has taken up this position just to get attention... (just FYI, this has earned you an unsubscribe!)
so true lol
You realy spared yourself few minutes not to watch the full video. Spoiler alert: He compared Josef Prusa to V. Putin himself :D
I bought a Creality Ender 5 Pro 2 years ago and despite endless hours of research and attempts to repair and calibrate it, I was never able to get it to print reliably. I finally gave up and sold it for 20% what I paid for it. I bought a mk3s+ from Prusa about 45 days ago and it has been completely painless to own by comparison. The prints are better, of course. The best part is the company itself. Any issue or question I had I have had their support available to me literally 24/7 happy to give knowledgable and patient help. I feel much better giving my money to a company that is contributing to the industry vs. a Chinese clone with no support that was built under terrible factory conditions.
Got my first a few month ago, its a ender 3 pro v2 and put it together in about 30min. And started my first print within a hour. Creality is a great Chinese company with great quality and easy to upgrade.
My next will also be a Creality but a more professional version.
@@kempaswe4022 as a person who has owned SEVEN 3D printers, from 4 manufacturers, and printed many thousands of prints, I assure you that the Creality garbage was the worst of it, by a lot. They contribute nothing to the industry, ship environmentally brutal trash, and feed off the intellectual property of the innovators. They're awful.
@@2008gore know alot of people who got different creality printers etc and none of them have had any problem with them.
@@kempaswe4022 I already bought a Creality Cr-10 V3 2 years ago and since then I have had nothing but problems with it, and I have never really had reliable quality. I bought it because of all the paid positive TH-cam reviews and the 1 in 10 people who had a good experience with it who recommended it. The only advantage is that it teaches you how 3d printers work because you do nothing but fix it. But I didn't buy a 3d printer for that. I'm now looking for a reliable 3d printer with consistent quality, and it definitely won't be a Creality.
started as "home improvement" and ended as "mcarthy hearing" .
Who knew what gummi bears, precise instrustuctions and quirky humor can do to "orange country printers".
While I don't appreciate being called a religious fanatic, I still wanted to add some input here.
I started with an Ender 3 in 2018 (first printer), it was a learning curve to be sure and I value everything that I picked up tinkering with that, but I spent quite a bit of money upgrading it, looking for perfect prints. I went through firmware upgrades to add mesh leveling, several BLtouch type probes to add automated leveling, countless nozzle and hotend upgrades, dual-z upgrades, direct drive upgrades for certain filaments, hell, even buying nice calipers for the sole purpose of calibrating printer... and every time I'd got it perfect and laying down an excellent print, a week later I'm spending hours recalibrating everything.
I bought a prusa mini in 2020 from a friend's recommendation (I'd guess because of my constant complaining) and literally out of the box with zero tinkering, it's printing better than I'd been able to get the ender to do in the last two years, zero down time for recalibrating. Also to add: the mini was cheaper overall than the ender and all of the time and upgrades spent on it.
I bought a second mini to increase production, same deal - out of the box constantly perfect prints. Earlier this year I bought the mk3s solely based on my experience with the mini, and just like the mini, perfect prints (side note for your video.. if you read the manual, you don't need to measure the screws.... there's a scale printout that lets you compare them instantly instead of measuring...) that build took only a bit longer than the ender 3 for me, but maybe I just have a different mind for how these things fit together.
So what I have now is an Ender 3 which requires constant recalibration, and two minis and an mk3s which have had zero tinkering since they were assembled (one of them, for two years now....) For a production line, where time is money, that is a *critical* factor. Why would I waste time (money) tweaking the Ender, when I can press play on the prusa and know that it will work every time?
I'm no fanboy, I use what works and honestly I've not seen anything work better (yet). I do recommend prusa on every post I see with people asking *only because of my experience with them*.
I'll definitely look into the Voron at some point because this also looks good, thank you for mentioning it.
Exact same boat as you. Just started printed the parts for my Voron V0.1 to bring to trade shows with me, super pumped!
Now that you mention he does sound like an angry anthithei- i mean antiprusaist lol
Yeah prusa is a bit expensive, but even with printers like the ender 3 s1 that are more polished and feature complete and ready to work out the box, you get your moneys worth from sheer reliability, plus prusas knowledge base and support when things do go wrong. Creality no doubt has improved but theyre also still not at prusas level of "it just works"
prusa fangirls are the worst slurping prusas cock because dont wanna accept they overpaid for trash which works just like ender but they keep imagining its better, after seeing all same issues on prusa forums yea its sure is better lmao plenty of printers for fractions of price of prusa and with more features, or that new bambulab with bit more cost you get so much more than turdsa
Same path as you, tried so many brands (learned a lot). Had a printer that would require de-assemble the nozzle on every prints. Got a prusa mk3s, perfect prints every time.
Same trajectory here, also the inductive probe senses the build sheet (as it is a coated steel sheet) not magnets under the bed. An inductive sensor does not measure a magnetic field and thermal expansion is the only thing which might affect calibration which will be very small in the vertical stack.
Comparing prusa to putin, and pretending that czechia has no concept of democracy, compared to the US, where a criminal oligarch ran the house for 4 years, despite all the red flags; as well as the MASSIVE problems that the US still has in regards to the respect of people other white christian cishets, is kind of laughable; honestly.
In respect to that; the Czech Republic has a more functional democracy than the US.
Where the US seems to have been stuck, and seems to be; systematically revolving around the early 1980's in terms of political progress...
Also; yes, Chinese printers are great; but also: Chinese printers can set your house on fire, because thermal runaway protection is still functionally optional for some brands...
And... How much have Chinese manufacturers actually contributed to the marlin codebase, and how much have they contributed to everything in general, as that answer is still a largely net zero game.
Nottomention that most China printers; including the ender 3, come in about 6+ different variations; some with the yellow bed springs; some with noisy a4988 stepper drivers, some with a metal extruder, some with the plastic one.... Some with a mean-well psu, some with a Landy, some with a 32bit motherboard, some with a 128k chip...
Like... It gets kind of frustrating for consumers; if they eventually need to still throw at about a 100-150 euro at the printer, in order to get a less frustrating experience altogether..
But that's just my €0.02 cents
Oh boy, this one is more personal sour grapes about Joseph Prusa than anything else (no comment on that, everybody has to judge for himself if this stands really on solid ground).
Concerning the machine, it is a fine printer like many other on the market out there. Is it the best out there? Hell no. Is it a easy and convenient experience with some great looking parts? I say absolutely yes. For sure it's not cheap, but I will try to give my perspective on it after starting out with a modified Ender 3 and moving over to a MK3S+ after getting in touch with them at my workplace.
The high price is coming from somewhere, all the parts get individually quality tested, they use expensive suppliers (Misumi, E3D, Bondtech, Gates, Noctua, Ultimachine,...), labour cost is higher in Czech compared to China (and assembly is by far not the only labour cost that exists). Are these quality brands necessary for a printer to put out fantastic prints? Defenitely not, but they guarantee support for companies, that put a lot of work in developing their products and a high standard of quality control, which is essential for a company's reputation of being solid. Which is further emphasized by the 24/7 support, if it might be helpful or not. That comes at a price. So much on that part
So what is the exact reason why I would still choose a MK3S+ even over some technically advanced CoreXY machines (Vorons, RatRigs, .. you name it)?
Well it simply ticks all the boxes that I am looking for. It is first and foremost a hassle-free printer that will do everything I asked it for without having to tinker with it. No tuning, heavy modifying or coding needed. It is fairly quiet with very little fan noise (turns it off when not needed), it comes with magnetic PEI sheets (which are a essential MUST imo) and the driect drive setup can print up to 300°C without doing anything -> that one I need a lot for ASA/PA-CF/PC-CF. Just run the calibration process, set Live Z once and you're done for a longt time.
The MK3S+ is no speed machine by any means, but slicing it with the standard profiles, turn it up to 150% speed and the prints come out with great quality. If you're on that mission, you should go for some dedicated machines that can handle high speed/high flow applications, but you still have to properly tune/modify them, setup Klipper with input shaping, etc. For me the convenience factor is the one I value the most, it's just easy going.
The only other machine that deliver's this package in my eyes is the Ender 3 S1 Pro, which is clearly aimed at Prusa customers but comes around at 479$. It seems to be a great machine, the only drawback for me is the noise and maybe the complex packaging of the sprite extruder in case of a jam. But finally a real contender
One last thing about the assembly of the MK3S+. It is pretty straight forward and you obviously made some arguments by not reading it properly. The y-axis belt tensioner for instance, the belt has the put in first and then assembled to the carriage, pretty clearly explained in the manual. My first build took around 6h as I was cautious about how to assemble it correctly, but by now it takes me around 3h because I know how to do it.
The part with the insult because they include Haribos... Jeez, that one triggered you hard, what a pile of BS.
All in all, it is an old printer by now and I would love to see it beeing refreshed to the standards of 2022 (especially easy wireless printing, maybe included in PrusaSlicer), but in the end it is bulletproof, makes a lot of things right and puts out fantastic parts.
If someone would make a CoreXY printer with the same ease-of-use, this would be my new choice. But I got no more time left for nerding out, buying stuff, think about implementation and stuff. I just want a machine that I build, plug it in and enjoy printing everything I want from TPU to PC-CF. And that package is for me worth the higher initial cost.
Its not cheap. Its way overpriced.
@@Nobody-Nowhere I don‘t think so. It has its price and this is coming from somewhere as I mentioned.
Creality managed to get a similar spec for ~500€, which is 2/3 of the price of a MK3S+. I would consider that a premium, but not way overpriced.
@@Nobody-Nowhere Point me to other printers then. Creality clones with v-slot rollers may be cheaper but they are significantly lower in quality, reliability, and features.
Prusa XL does exist and it seems to be a fantastic upgrade. I think they took so long with it because they wanted to blow every other printer out of the water. $2000 base model, though. That hurts!
@@kachler67 lol people like you called suckers 🤡
I stop watching when you said it took you 40 minutes to put the frame together and it’s obvious you didn’t read the manual and had to measure the screws lol. Video was a joke and I don’t even own a Prusa.
Wow so without even having a Prussia you already know how long you would need. He makes really good points you should finish the video.
@@JP-fr5ki wow so I have a Prusa now and this video is still a joke.
@@EricMcCoy OMG you actually bought a Prussia I feel sorry for you and your lack of engineering knowledge.
@@JP-fr5ki no I didn’t buy Prussia, it doesn’t exist anymore. I assume you meant Prusa, but since you lack intelligence it’s hard to say. I’ll use small words for you. I have many printers. I have many different models. I have a PRUSA, Bambu Lab X1C and P1P, as well as a few models from Elegoo and Creality. You are obviously a shill for this channel, or the content creator himself in disguise. Get a life and quit commenting on 6 month old posts.
Lol this thread made me laugh
3:30 the picture of all the nuts and screws have the label of the size and type of screw and the picture is a 1:1 representation (according to prusa) so if you were lost you can just hold the piece up to the picture to see if its the one you need.
Wow! There's a lot of hate in this video. What did Joseph Prusa do to you?
Besides stole everyone’s idea and basically took over for maker bot with the nonsense
@@weldingjunkiehe took an open source idea, modified it, modified it again to the point where this is classed as its own printer, then decided to make a commercially viable product.
All while making his idea open source allowing anyone that wants to build one without ever buying parts from Prusa.
Seems a weird kinda theft to me.
This printer is 4 year old and since then they've been focusing on other printers.
Did you just go into this video with the attitude that you already hated it and wanted to say it out no matter what?
bit funny labelling Prusa an egotist while also mentioning musk in the same video.
I like Prusa printers primarily for their pre-made slicer profiles. They have polished profiles setup for multiple nozzle sizes and lots of filament types that "just work". Compare that to my Voron and FLSUN SR, and I end up having to tune a profile every time I use a new filament or a different nozzle size. While I love all of my printers, when I just want to slice and get a part on the first try, I always turn to my Prusa Mini. I don't know if there are any alternatives that allow you to print in so many configurations without having to fiddle with the Slicer.
I'm really interested in looking at how the nozzle probing system works in the Mingda. Could you dissect it and recommend how could we implement it in an Eva hotend?
For a person bemoaning a printer that uses 3D printed parts, I'm keen to know what you think of voron, ratrig and annex. They go printed because they iterate far faster and with more creativity in designs that the 800 chinese printer couldn't conceive. This video was more for your ego than to educate.
*edit* so you mention voron at 48:30, so you are aware of it. It has the same makings potentially as prusa. RCF is the same "guidance" as Josef. Mods can be publicly endorsed. PiF has vetting. I don't get how you can encourage one thing but not the other.
#Didn'tWatchTheWholeVideo
@@DesignPrototypeTest hashtags are cool and all to avoid discussion and shelter your views, but you should have saw my edit about voron that you mentioned (with a timestamp even) about it that makes it more confusing.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I watched the whole video and asked myself the same question as Brett James
@@adamantiz- if you want to build a printer thats at least somewhat fast, youll want a lighter motion system. A system with lead screws will have a lot more backslash than a belt driven system.
@@adamantiz- Do you know of any 3d printers like the one you've described? While I'm not a big fan of Voron 2.4's belted Z, I imagine even most knowledgeable 3d printing enthusiasts would balk at the prospect of spending too much more on a more robust printer for little tangible benefit. I see the added cost as something of a flaw itself, given the limitations of FDM printing, and have a hard to imagining a machine like one you've described offers enough of an improvement in print/speed quality to make the additional cost worth it.
There's a lot of room for improvement to be made in the 3d printer space, but I think most people in the space now have certain expectations about what the machines can and can't do. Obviously, the space has a long way to go before 3d printing is a plug-and-play hobby item accessible by the average consumer. That includes affordability, mechanical complexity, and everything in between.
The thing you seem to continually miss about Chinese printers is that finding a cheaper way yo make a product is in itself an innovation. And what you seem to miss about Prusa printers is that making a polished, refined product that is user-friendly (with a huge community) is also an innovation, which is very valuable - especially to a certain segment of the market.
Granted- the i3 design is a bit long in the tooth at this point - but they have continuously made small improvements over the lifecycle, and as you point out they are releasing an entirely new CoreX/Y line - so they are pushing things forward! When you factor in the complications that come with being an established brand and a company that is mass-producing parts, I think you are being unnecessarily harsh on Prusa.
The Chinese companies didn't figure out a way to make things cheaper, they just know how to make things cheaper and they understand that you can make good money over time. It's why they can run convenience stores where they're making sometimes only pennies on every little purchase. They live within their means so they don't need to charge you an entire paycheck. Western countries on the other hand love to overcharge you. Which is why people buy things from China in the first place.
Prusa is like Apple, where they claim their hardware is better than other people, at the same time that other hardware is doing the same things theirs is.
Oh, their corexy for $2k+?
Gee, how innovative.
Two trees delivering a corexy machine for $450 is innovative.
Good for them that they continuously made small improvements. Big freaking deal when you're starting off at $800 and now have to make upgrades to something everyone claimed was perfect out of the box.
Prusa can suck my beeeeeeeeeeeep.
@@dangerous8333 Buy a two trees corexy then. Oh wait- it doesn’t work stock. Literally watch any video on it and you’ll see it doesn’t print well at all. Sure, you could spend HOURS making it a good machine, or, for someone that doesn’t want to pursue that route Prusa has made a excellent option wether you like it or not. At the end of the day, people buy Prusas because they create a better product.
@@dangerous8333 Also you say Prusa is not innovative- when they have literally invited the PCB heated build plate. Western companies can charge more because that cost comes with good customer service, research and development cost, and a better, more finely tuned product.
@@dangerous8333 I would also agree with you- Prusa is like Apple in many ways. They produce a well tuned product and they have better software. (I have an ender but I love prusa slicer)
@@ibrue Prusa is like Apple if Apple wasn't awful. Prusa publishes the source code of their firmware and slicer as open source and even natively supports many competitor machines/filaments on that slicer. They encourage user assembly/disassembly and support 3rd party upgrades. Prusa is like Apple in that they have a comprehensive ecosystem of quality, premium products (Prusament, PrusaSlicer, and the Mk3 are all excellent), but Prusa is nothing like Apple as far as repair and sharing go.
so with your remarks on voron, will we ever see you build a v0.1 or a v2.4? the only nightmare that I had making my voron switchwire was the wiring.
Ok thanks for the open mind on Prusa.
Regarding a small (x10 printers) but large (300*300*300 min) printing farm for PETG and ABS what would you propose as a machine? I would love to have some Voron but you can't find them half assembled.
Thanks in advance
I find it so odd to hear that using 3D printed parts on printers is now considered a negative by many. While I understand the reasoning for quality, 3D printers took off because they were a means to create self-replicating machines in the reprap project.
I actually want to see more printed parts in printers. Quality be damned!
Really really really bad idea if you plan to put a printer in an enclosure. I refuse to buy a 3d printer with 3d printed parts for that reason. During the reprap movement it made sense. Now its just an outdated gimmick
@@ce5903 This is really only true if the part is printed with PLA or maybe PETG. Other filaments such as ABS and NylonX should be able to withstand the heat (unless enclosures get much hotter than I think.)
I imagine most people that want to use an enclosure are wanting to print with something other than PLA.
@@kiliansto yeah but the Prusa parts are printed with PETG I believe. If it was ABS it would be less of a gimmick. If it was polycarbonate, even better.
@CE I believe they used to print their parts with ABS and they switched to PETG at some point. Maybe they sacrificed enclosure usage - I have not looked into it.
Regardless, printed parts != PLA or PETG printed parts; parts from some filaments work fine in enclosures.
It's funny that he complains about seeing printed parts on a printer then later recommends building a voron as the ultamate machine. I have a voron afterburner toolhead on my ender 5 + in an enclosure printed from ABS but plan to replace it with Polycarbonate as it can withstand higher temps and is easy to print with. All that said, I'm considering replacing my E5+ with the Prusa XL cause it's corxy with a tool changer and with the enclosure design they've showed, it will be a smaller footprint.
You are a stunning example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
hey now, someone has to make sure the peak of Mount Stupid doesn't do anywhere
Well, I for one appreciated the step by step instructions in the book and online, with other users comments. Following the steps methodically resulted in a final build with zero issues. I don't pay much attention to marketing hype, but hey, Joseph Prusa delivered an end printer that works. Yep, there's a lot of printers out their to build, but I choose the mk3s+ because of their documentation and standardized quality parts inventory shipped in the kit. Each to their own.
After much research my first 3Dprinter was a Prusa MK3S. It was a bit of a challenge to build but the detailed instructions helped tremendously, although there were still times that I needed a TH-cam video to explain/illustrate even more than Prusa's manual could. While you are insulted by the playful nature of Prusa's manual, you seem to forget not everyone is as knowledgeable and some people enjoy the lightheartedness. I watch TH-cam videos to research new printers when my friends ask what to buy and so far I still recommend Prusa if they can afford it. For any 3Dprinting newbie viewers of this channel, this guy is really worked up for some reason and I don't think its very helpful for newbies. Much of my fav TH-cam content helps regular people to learn new skills easily, but this guy is kinda toxic, not sure if his knowledge helps more than his negativity detracts. I forgot how bad he can be and the algorithm suggesting this video ruined my day.
Your comment sounds kind of defensive man. Like you know you are making a mistake and you need me to be "worked up" so that you can feel good about your purchase decisions. If I'm shrill of voice then I can't possibly be right. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't make a lot of rational decisions. You rely on the tone of voice of the presenter instead of analyzing the evidence in front of you. But even if this is the case and you need to read the person instead of judging the evidence, how did you end up buying his printer after watching Prusa and Mikolas? Is your only body language judgment criteria Alpha vs Beta Behavior? Are you a servile man who just looks for leaders to follow then you do exactly what they tell you?
I get it! You feel insecure after watching my video and you aren't sure that you made the right decision to buy a Prusa. But it's worse than that. You furthered the bad decision by recommending Prusa to your friend and costing them money they didn't need to spend. Your behavior is common, well known and well documented. I even posted a link in the description anticipating comments like yours. It's called the "Sunk Cost Fallacy" check it out. Or don't. But stop accusing me of being "worked up" because you feel bad about your decisions.
@@DesignPrototypeTest My god. Can you do *anything* but project?
@@DesignPrototypeTest You're truly hopeless.
@@SirSpence99 He's right, and you did cost your friend lots of money he didn't need to spend.
Also, if you weren't a Prusa fanboy you wouldn't be butt hurt by what he's saying.
This guy has saved me thousands of dollars...
What have you done.
@@_--_--_ No, you just have a mediocre mind.
Edit: That's from an Einstein quote.
For all the airheads.
We have around 6 printers at my school- the only ones that ever print anything are prusas because they WORK OUT OF THE BOX. I have a ton of experience modding Enders and have put pretty much every upgrade on it, but at the end of the day prusas just work. My ender works great but it took of ton of time and effort to get to that point. I believe more competition in the field will make the technology more accessible for beginners, and their shouldn’t be a such a steep learning curve for people wanting to print models. You pointed out that prusa would stop making things open source, and I’d have to go against that. At the end of the day, Prusa creates better products than their competitors, and that’s why people buy from them. You mentioned price, and it’s not only the hardware you are getting: it’s their support, well written instructions, and much more for that price. I also love prusamint because of the eco-friendly packaging, reasonable price and way above average quality.
I see where you're coming from, I do. But, you said Prusa CREATES better products. They PRODUCE products. Language is important in arguments of truth and fact.
Prusa is to 3D printing, what Bose and Beats are to speakers and headphones. Far from the best and you pay a premium for the name.
@@Bruceanddenise Everything you're saying is pretty well false. The allegation that Prusa "produces" products that someone else designed is absurd - the designs are in-house. That's like saying Martin Scorsese is just a "copier" instead of a filmmaker because he didn't make the first mobster film - you can make something good and unique yet still iterate on top of those that came before like Scorsese did with Bergman and Fellini.
And if you think a Prusa is just "paying for the name" let me ask you - point me to a competitor product that has *anything close* to the Prusa Mk3's ecosystem, quality, capability, or user experience. The only competitors I see in the i3 style space are Creality and its clones - and those printers are a far cry from the Prusa Mk3. You get what you pay for, and for 750 you're getting a far better product than Artillery, Creality, Anycubic, etc i3 printers. Even years after the Prusa Mk3 has had any meaningful changes, printer competitors still can't reproduce the quality or experience.
@@TheRAINMan059 preach
I never said Prusa was using anyone else's design. You clearly didn't understand my analogy. Prusa floods the market with hype, brand recognition is high but like Beats and Bose, they're not the best. You tolerate the flaws because you're happy with your purchase. Awesome!
Since you stated that "pretty much" everything I said was false, means you know that it isn't, patently false. Again, the words matter. That's what I was pointing out.
You ignore all of the facts in the video. If you choose a Prusa printer as your tool of choice, cool with me. I like them, I just can't justify the cost. Guys, I have TRIED to justify the cost of Prusa products and I can't. I'm not poor, nor ignorant. I am merely brand agnostic and I try to spend my hard-earned dollars on value.
I wasn't starting an argument, a discussion.
I don't necessarily think the Scorsese reference is a good analogy. We're talking about technology.
I see you’ve successfully mounted the Sherpa Mini and Mosquito hotend to your Ender. What cooling duct did you use?
I’ve made an adaptor to join the extruder to the hotend, and then mounted to the X carriage, but I don’t know enough about cooling fan duct geometry.
I looked at your review of the Sherpa, hoping you would show how you completed the upgrade.
Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.
I make all my own geometry for mounts and fan ducts I show in these videos. Unfortunately, I never made geometry to mount a Sherpa Mini and Mosquito hotend to an Ender3. Not as far as I can remember. If I did so, please point me to the video and that will give me the information I need to go dig those files up.
@@DesignPrototypeTest @13:45 of this video. th-cam.com/video/p22VtORQ79E/w-d-xo.html
Oh yeah, I did make that! Forgot about it. Typically, I share any and all files I have ever made with my $5 patreon supporters, but since you only want the mount for the Sherpa mini that will work with the stock Ender 3 Hotend just support me for $1 and I'll get you the files over there. www.patreon.com/designprototypetest
@@DesignPrototypeTest Sure, I’m more than happy to donate, but I threw out all my Ender hotends years ago. Would your fan duct design be adaptable for a mosquito hotend? It’s really only the fan duct that’s stopping me from installing the Sherpa/Mosquito combo.
What do you think about the new bambu x1 printer, and how could it affect prusa's grasp on the "quality" printer market? I would love to see a vid or rant on this.
I just looked it up. Never saw it before. They are doing lots of things right, but I don't like it for a couple of reasons.1)RFID filament=proprietary. Locking you into purchasing only their filament. The firmware electronics and cloud integration seem to be similar attempts to control customers with proprietary stuff. 2) Lidar. Why? Just because you can? Sensor drift? Seems unproven and overly complicated to me, but maybe I'm wrong. 3) Multi-color/material with a single nozzle similar to the Prusa MMU2 which is a bad technique for many reasons. eg. The filament changes leave stringing inside the filament path. The new color filament gets caught on these strings and the printer jams. The Palette technique is far superior, but only Mosaic can sell that b/c they have patent.
What is your opinion about superslicer after using it?
I find the interface/organization confusing but it has more useful features than Cura and S3D. My favorite thing so far is the modifiers. Alessandro has done some great work creating this.
I know you do not like Prusa but they just work and have very good print quality. I have over a dozen 3d printers and the Prusa is my favorite. The firmware is by far the best out of all the chinese printers.
Did you watch the video? That Focoos Chinese printer "just works" too. So does the Mingda Magician Pro "Just work."
Have you tried klipper? Makes Marlin look as outdated as it is. I have also had ender 3's that just work and also print better...
@@NoThankYou541 I do, I have clipper on one of my sovol sv01's and in the process of building a voron 2.4 atm too.
@@DesignPrototypeTest No Chinese printer I have tried works as smoothly and without fiddling as the Prusa's I have and that is down to the refined and feature packed firmware. Btw all but one of my Prusa's are Prusa clones that are half the cost from China and 99 percent the same as an actual Prusa. Uses Prusa firmware as well.
prusa are made in Europe... So comparing it to Chinese printers is maybe not that fair. Also a prusa is almost twice the price of a ender 3, so that money has to go somewhere (I hope)
Hello, could you make a video about the Creality Lizard issue? I am a backer and now it seems interesting since the project is in a dispute with a company from Luxemburg. Thanks
Something else I noticed whilst watching this video is that at 12:46 of the video, the nozzle bed levelling system for the chinese printer you demonstrated, whilst on the prusa xl video that you made which is now unlisted I went back and reviewed a section where you talked about their nozzle bed levelling system, direct quotes from that section include:
“it’s absolutely not necessary on a corexy or any other cartesian style printer so its kind of a gimmick to be using it here” , 10:06 of that video
“ you can have some old hardened filament sort of protruding a little bubble out of the tip the orifice of the nozzle or you can have a whole big glob of that same filament built up on the tip of the nozzle and um it causes problems so what if that globule is actually hot because you you heated up the hotend well now you’ve got a big sort of sponge a big spring that’s going to sort of have to squish out of the way which will give a different reading which will change uh just how effective the nozzle is at detecting the bed surface so um its not as much of a home run as you think to be using the nozzle as the um bed leveling apparatus”, 11:37 of that video
“It says right there analog load cell sensor so they are totally copying the load cell technique from duet 3d” 12:19 of that video
All of these problems also apply to the nozzle probe on the chinese printer yet you dont even mention them.
You're scrutinizing every minute of every video I make. You're looking for contradictions." Do I contradict myself very well? I contradict myself for I am large and contain multitudes." Me being wrong does not excuse Prusa for his ego and charging too much for his printers. While all of your criticisms are easy to defend against, I'm not going to bother because those defenses would not address the core issue. You are a true believer. I think you might be from the Czech Republic. Nothing that I say will convince you that Josef Prusa and his company are not good for the hobby. They exist to enrich a select few and glorify the ego of a Man who does not deserve your adoration. You gain nothing from his success. Be a servant of truth instead of whatever this is that you are doing.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Why would I care about prusa as a person because at the end of the day im not talking to him im just using a product that his company sells and pointing out something that I found interesting when I watched your videos. Im not someone who lives in the czech republic im just an average 17 year old canadian high school student who enjoys technology and found something interesting I wanted to inquire about, your answer is truly the answer of someone who is delusional , someone who believes that anyone who says something good about a 3d printer brand works for them and is purposely going into your comment section to cause trouble. If you truly believe that someone like Joseph prusa would go out of his way to do something like that to you then youre crazy man, (not disregarding that he might be an egotist i barely even know who he is i just bought a printer from his company) but someone who is running a large company I dont think would put so much time and effort organizing a group to bother you. I admired this channel for having its own opinions and showing some really cool stuff but your response right there has caused me to lose so much respect towards you.
>your answer is truly the answer of someone who is delusional.
If you truly believed I was a crazy person and if you truly had "lost" respect for me why would you continue to engage with me? Why would I be worth one more minute of your time? You are leaving these comments because something I said triggered you and you need me to be wrong. Are you suffering from the sunk cost fallacy that I talked about in the description?
When you see an ego being displayed shamelessly you must ask if those behaviors indicate Pathological Narcissism. The worst people in history have had this personality trait: www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/psychoanalyzing-historys-meanest-men/2019/04/25/6cf34f38-346c-11e9-af5b-b51b7ff322e9_story.html buying products from upstanding companies is one small way to make the world slightly better. In the case of Prusa, you are paying more for a product that doesn't perform any better than the less expensive alternatives and by doing so you are putting money in the pocket of an egotist (or worse) who is not helping the hobby. Chinese printers are not something you should buy on principle either. I don't know who is worse Prusa or China, so I simply recommend that my viewers not waste their money and go with the less expensive Chinese printers.
@@DesignPrototypeTest He originally just pointed out, that you use double standards in evaluating printer features, on the chinese one it's great and on the XL it's a unnecessary flawed gimminck. Statements like these diminish the objective credibility of your reviews lately, nothing wrong with pointing that out. Your response on that is crazy
@@kachler67 >He originally just pointed out, that you use double standards in evaluating printer features,
There is no objective standard. At some level of resolution every judgement breaks down into subjectivity. I can criticize anything. It's called "Critical Thinking." Just because I criticize Nozzle Touch Probing for it's flaws doesn't preclude it from being superior to the P.I.N.D.A. probe. Even Prusa know this which is why the new Prusa XL uses nozzle touching. It's weak sauce to try and "trap" me in contradictions. I've put myself on camera for hundreds of hours. There is no way that I haven't contradicted myself. Things change. Technology advances. You guys are on a witch hunt trying to make me into a bad guy and I don't appreciate it.
Dude are you for real?
This is just a hate video targeted at prusa.
You don't like the prusa printers, the brand, the community the man behind it, I get it.
The whole video is about your personal feelings, it has no actual information.
And you are a flying purple people eater. Just calling a think a thing doesn't make it true. Can you justify your claim? Show people my bias in this video. Prove your arguement.
@@DesignPrototypeTest He is right. You hate Prusa and probably always did, just be honest. I have Enders and I have Prusa machines and it is totally worth the money to buy Prusa.
I'm so glad creators like CNCKitchen, Makers Muse, Teaching Tech and Thomas Salanderer, post unbiased reviews and aren't owned by Creality. I'm also glad that they have much more exposure than you (subscribers, view counts) I've owned three Creality Printers and now am on my tenth Prusa printer. I wish I never would have bought my Creality printers as they truly were a money pit and a turn off to the hobby. After purchasing a MK3S+ (clone, thank you open-source) I was able to enjoy printing again and saw the value that 3D printing can create. My wife and I now own a business using many official Prusa machines and their PEI sheets the best I've ever used. This is all to say, I think you need to do a little introspection and evaluate your ego, as you said when you released a video on the Ender 3 the popularity of it rocketed, and because you said buy TSLA you could've made others rich. A broken clock is right twice a day, and you seem like an extremely broken clock.
As much as you hate me, would you please do me a favor: Tell me how you found my video. I'm getting a lot of traffic from an "External" source but YT doesn't tell me where it's coming from. Where did you come from to watch this video?
@@DesignPrototypeTest We're paid by Prusa obviously
@@AshBashVids As far as I can tell, the sock puppets are no longer present. At least not on YT. They all seemed to disappear when Putin invaded. Strange that. I'm honestly trying to solve issues and call out egregious behavior. I've given far more to the channel than I've ever received back. I don't understand why people want to hate me. I feel I'm providing a service. Despite your comment being a bit rude (albeit clever in some circles) you are the a rare type of commenter who will show your face and reveal a bit of who you are in videos posted to your account. I like the chiptunes BTW. I composed the intro music for my channel on an original 1989 Gameboy DMG using LSDJ. Did you ever see my video about Gameboys? Nobody watched it, but it might appeal to you. th-cam.com/video/QORzTGd875k/w-d-xo.html
@@DesignPrototypeTest anyone critical of you = sockpuppets
Did you even read the first line of my last response? " As far as I can tell, the sock puppets are no longer present." What kind of a weak-ass straw man are you trying to make of me?
What are your thoughts about the Anker make m5?
I really wanted to watch a video about the technical parts of the i3 Mk3 which can be improved or are inferior to its contemporaries in some way, but my notes from a 54 minute video only have 3 bulletpoints:
- e3d v6 hot end is old.
- Bed slinger design is outdated; coreXY design is superior.
- Prusa i3 MK3 printers occasionally suffer print quality issues.
I would really like more elaboration on the technical aspects of how the hot end & frame design, as well as other components, are inferior to other consumer 3d printers or parts. I personally already understand why bed slinger design should stay in the past, but I don't fully understand what makes the e3d v6 obsolete. An acceptable definition of "obsolete" that I am positing here is: "the state of no longer functioning comparably to contemporary counterparts or no longer functioning to an acceptable standard." Is the e3d v6 hot end really obsolete - or just inferior? I don't know, because the information required to make that distinction wasn't provided in the video. I'm going to research that now on my own to satiate my curiosity, but I thought the video was premised on making the argument that the Prusa i3 MK3 is overhyped & overpriced. The Prusa i3 Mk3 is definitely overpriced, but I thought the video was going to articulate that argument, not just imply that it is because a cheaper printer produced an objectively better print quality in one test.
Dunno man, I've had 3 printers and the MK3S is the best one I've had. I started with a tarantula, modded it to hell. I even published a carriage for MGN rails that got quite a bit of downloads on thingiverse. Then got an Ender 3, also modded to hell. Nothing mattered, when I got the mk3s that thing printed a first layer as good as the modded Ender 3. Maybe I got super lucky and got a really good kit with good tolerances on everything, but damm this thing is pretty good. I've had it since release and maintain it once a year, perfect first layers, and has never given me an issue. Hell, I can honestly tell you I have not gone through calibration since the first few months of owning it when I was trying out different adhesion systems and filaments.
I already fight my code when developing, my brain when designing stuff to print, I don't want to fight my printer. Sold both the tarantula and ender 1 year after getting the mk3s, never looked back.
Sounds reasonable. Have you built a Voron yet? Do you disagree that someone who thinks they might want to start 3D printing should start with an Ender 3 and then move on to a Voron?
@@DesignPrototypeTest I'm actually a robotics associate professor at uni, we got a lab with more printers. I don't tinker with them, we got 3 big BCN3D (I think they are sigmas?) and a voron we ordered off a local maker. I do agree voron is a better design, but I like the mk3s smaller build overall for personal use.
For beginner path, it really depends on the person. Students and people with lots of time should be fine with enders because of the modding. But me personally, having already tinkered, I'd rather have the "build and go" experience I've had with the prusa kit. With less time, I'd rather use it designing and coding my projects instead of getting into tinkering to get reliable prints.
But you seem to only acknowledge time as the cost of ownership. What about the financial differences. An I3 Mk.3 costs $580 more than an Ender 3. Thankfully time=money and we can do that calculation. Working at $15 minimum wage a student would need to work in their part time job for like two weeks to pay that difference. Let's not forget that it took me 9 hours to build the Prusa. How long will it take a noob? Don't you think those hours would be better spent tinkering with an Ender 3 and getting it to perform as good or better than an I3? It's the same time commitment and now they understand 3D printers to a much finer level instead of the drudgery of their menial student labor. For what type of person does it start to make sense to just pay the extra $580 instead of spending the time with your printer? I contend that the Ender 3 is by far the better choice for the vast majority of consumers.
@@DesignPrototypeTest "Vast majority of consumers" is false imo. The Creality Ender 3 is akin to a fixer-upper car and the Prusa is ready to drive out the lot and work for years without issue. There is plenty of merit in lower price and there is also merit in spending the time to learn and upgrade - but there exists with any market like this a spectrum between hobby project and useful tool. A lot of Ender 3 users get fed up and forgo their printer or the hobby entirely. Spending 750 or 1k on a quality, dependable machine like the Prusa is not a mistake for those with the means to do so. And remember - Prusa offers the Mini at a much lower cost of 350-420 (420 being assembled and with the filament runout sensor). I think the Creality's sole positive attribute is its low entry price; all physical aspects of the printer itself are rather juvenile. The v slot roller motion system, the binder clips securing the bed, the bed leveling knobs - they're all not worth someone's time to mess around with imo when there exist far better solutions. People with countless hours to mess around and learn should look at the Voron V0 or V2 and people without that time should get the Prusa. IMO the Creality value-add is purely the cheap factor. If you literally cannot afford the $600 or so to get the voron V0 materials and still want a "project", yes the Creality line is a good start. But those with the time and patience who truly want to learn FDM should just leapfrog to the current best offering, CoreXY with high flowrate hotends and direct drive extruders, not Ender.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Someone who doesn’t want to spend that time, or idk, someone who is not as tech savvy. Why do people buy new cars when they could fix up an old one? Your argument makes zero sense
Giving the micromanaging boss a 3d printing really tells who's the boss now.
I don't know how these printers even sell at these prices. Belongs in a museum.
I still haven’t found an A-to-Z printer experience better than a Prusa for the price. My other printers are an Ender-3 V2, Anycubic Vyper, and Ender-3 S1 Pro, all modified to match the Prusa as closely as possible (at least auto bed leveling, all metal hotend, dual Z, removable bed, firmware upgrades for the live printing options). Those other ones are fun and I have loved working with them, but the Prusa just runs and runs and runs, keeps on running while I’m repairing the others. I’m looking for my 5th printer now, and just can’t find a better printer than a Prusa for the price. Everyone out there points me to the ones I already have. Thinking about a Flsun but I dunno.. don’t want to realize instead of 4 Chinese printers I should’ve gotten 2 more Prusas.
Why would you match a Prusa as close as possible? Do you think Prisa knows everything about printers and his printers are perfect? All metal hotenfa are not ideal.unless you are printing with high temperature plastic. By putting all metal hot ends on your printers, you were literally making them suck more at printing PLA and PETG which are the plastics that you print with 90% of the time. So this makes me question your decision making skills. Which calls into question your assumption that Prusa is the best. Question: why do you need two Prusa's or four Ender 3's? See, I don't believe you're a real person. I think you're a sock puppet trying to make it sound like you're an expert who has lots of printers, but really you're just here to sell.Prusa printers to my audience.
@@DesignPrototypeTest haha what an odd reply! I’m a real person with a real customer base for camera parts at a store called SPRKPLG (previous reply was deleted cause of the link). Mostly from Carbon Fiber PC and PETG, but I print PLA and PETG beautifully like a dream with no issues on any all metal hot end. Far less jams (actually no jams for a long time) that’s for sure. I wish I got money from selling Prusa’s, but they wouldn’t like me telling you that since this post I got in line for a Bambu X1C because it *seems* like a better printer for the price. I also got a Kingroon KP3S over a Prusa Mini (several issues on that one, oops my Prusa influencer account just got revoked) which has turned out great! As well as a poorly made Magician X which I slapped a Volcano hot end onto and had to redo the eccentric nuts and belt tensioners. Time will tell if all of these go down while the Prusa just keeps running.
@@sprkplg I completely agree. I don't see any reason why a full metal hotend should perform worse with PLA. Afaik it's even recommend to upgrade to a FM hotend before printing PETG because of the higher temps which will release toxic fumes from the bowden tube.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I was a subscriber of this channel but when to much venom against PRUSA came out of this channel I just left. I see other people spending a lot of time fixing the ender and any cubic while I have a small operation of 4 PRUSAs without hazzles.
You made a lot of good comments, even though it seemed like you were looking for a fight.
Ford, Maytag, Walmart, Ralph Lauren, etc. were named after their founders. A lot of founder's believe that putting your name on the company forces an increase in quality. If the company puts out a terrible product, people will remember the name. It doesn't always work, particularly after a founder dies (Sam Walton of Wal-Mart fame, e.g.) but putting your name on the product for branding is pretty common.
Patents prevented commercial FDM printing companies like Prusa and Makerbot until the Stratasys patent expired in 2009. Yes it was their right to patent, but really the explosion in innovation didn't happen until 2010. There are times when patents are good when say creating a rocket or new kind of car engine will really take 20 years to develop and produce to market, other times it just hinders competition (and therefore innovation).
th-cam.com/video/m06sDIf7uZw/w-d-xo.html
I'm trying to learn about and am considering buying a 3D printer. What caught my eye is that while the Prusa was printing they dedicated 25% of the already too-small display to advertising. Was there no other data point that could have been displayed here instead?
The name of the printer is only on screen when not printing. When printing, that line shows the name of the gcode file. So there is not really any important info lost.
(When the logo is displayed, the line above it doesn't display data either, so it's not like there wouldn't be space for more info)
@@DraakjeYoblama Thank you for the explanation. I was referring to the printers running in the background starting at 20:23 which now that I look again more closely is indeed the name of the file being printed rather than an advertisement.
Can you make a video on the luzbot sidekick would like to hear your Opinion
You printed the Prusa model at 236% speed. It's clearly shown on the screen during the print and after the print, so it wasn’t an equivalent comparison. Run it again at 100% speed. I’d like to see how they compare. You would need more heat if you're printing with the additional speed. I would expect underextrusion without more heat at that speed multiplier.
I agree completely that there are many, many printers that can print at the same or even better quality that a Prusa can, especially when we’ll-tuned, even entry level priced printers. The speed difference doesn’t seem to be an equivalent print comparison however.
You scrutinized the video to the point where you looked at the screen for a "gotcha" but while you were looking for other details you didn't even listen to the words I was saying? 32:42 I also mentioned the speed factor at 30:12 Your attempt to besmirch me shows your intentions and motivations are not aligned with truth seeking.
@@DesignPrototypeTest huh? it was on screen for minutes, it was hard to miss, scrutiny wasn’t necessary, and you did mention the speed in the video. Buy you made it very clear at the beginning that the tests were equivalent. I don’t disagree with your point that other printers can print equally well or even better, I tell people this all the time, but your test wasn’t equivalent like you claim it to be due to the speed difference. Are you saying it was equal when one printer was printing at over 230% speed? Running the test again at 100% speed on both printers would validate and strengthen your point.
@@FilamentStories Hey now, fair is fair. Prusa himself likes to go to shows and tweak speed settings on printers as they are printing.
It's funny that your avatar is a big letter F. That's the grade that I would give your criticisms. First you try to "Gotcha" me. Now you are playing dumb like you don't understand what happened. Let me painfully go through this so we can put it to bed. I did not make it explicit in the video that 70mm/s was too slow to elicit the ghosting response I wanted to see. Therefore, starting with the Prusa I increased the speed factor to 236%. I did make this fact explicit when I talked about it at the 30:06 timestamp saying "The original file was set to be 70mm/s up here, print speed, and I printed at 236% so that's like 150 or so -ish mm/s" Then, when I was talking about the Chinese printer I said at 32:42 "I did up the speed also on this one to 235%" Therefore, the test is valid as both gcode files had the top speed set to 70mm/s and then both machines were run at 235mm/s. The comparison is fair. Both machines were run at the same speeds. NOTE#1: 235/236=.9956 so I did run the Chinese printer at 99.95% the speed of the Prusa. This happened because the Chinese printer only gives the option to increase in increments of 5%. Technically speaking I ran the Prusa at a 0.5% higher speed. So what!? Go do the study yourself and make things match perfectly. You will get the same results as I showed in the video. NOTE#2: At the 23:08 time stamp it can be seen where I change the speed on the Prusa back down to 100% for a minute. I did this to observe if the speed factor was actually making the Prusa print faster. I quickly returned it to 235% after verifying.
@@DesignPrototypeTestI know you like to be thorough and while I did listen to the entire video, it might not look like a completely even comparison for the full print with speeds being changed up and down on both printers. You said at the beginning that it was an apples to apples test. It wasn’t my intent to attack you, only to ask for a more straightforward test so that the speed issue wouldn’t be a factor. I was thinking of people who hear the beginning comparison goal and then see all sorts of things going on during the print and wonder about the equality of the test. You've explained it here in case there were questions by people watching. Again, I don’t disagree with your statements, it looked confusing during the test was my point, especially to those who are new to 3D printing with limited knowledge who might be looking to you for guidance on what printer to consider buying. Your summary will give that information to anyone interested.
5 years later and this guy is still crying about how prusa "stole" his research and how they didn't provide him with a free printer.
How would you know? You've only been on YT for less than 2 years. "Halo Machine Joined Dec 27, 2020" Is this you?:
It's a quasi-religion for these guys. They don't want to feel stupid when the buyers remorse sets in. So instead of admitting they made a mistake they attack anyone who says something bad about the Orange printer. Saying the printer is suboptimal hurts their self-esteem and they take it personally. What kind of a man chooses to fanboy for a narcissist instead of admitting they got bamboozled?
@@DesignPrototypeTest I've been on youtube for 16 years. People can have multiple accounts you know. And all someone has to do is watch your old video about how prusa "stole" your idea to come to the conclusion that you've been crying for years.. Do you even know how youtube works?
@@HaloMachine So, I banned your other account(s) for bad behavior but you have this backup sock puppet account which you use to manipulate things? If you really want a comment to hit hard you can upvote your own stuff with your other accounts. We both know why you are here. I'm Prusa's most vocal critic and today Bamboo Labs released a printer that Prusa will never be able to compete with. You can't stop them and you can't compete but you can come over to that other threat to Prusa and beat up on me. Except that I banned your other accounts so you are forced to use this newbie account. I'm right about Prusa. You just don't want to admit it.
@@DesignPrototypeTest "I'm Prusa's most vocal critic"
Yet nobody takes you serious, judging by your last 7 or so videos. Even prusa doesn't know who you are.
"Bamboo Labs released a printer that Prusa will never be able to compete with"
Prusa sells 9k printers a month according to them. Bambu sold less than that over a 6 month run on their KS. Prusa isn't phased.
@@HaloMachine If Prusa doesn't know who I am then why is he tweeting about me? twitter.com/josefprusa/status/1561461052033867777
>Prusa sells 9k printers a month according to them. Bambu sold less than that over a 6 month run on their KS. Prusa isn't phased.
I can lift 20x more weight than my 5 year old son. I can run 3x faster. I've got 20 years more schooling and 40 years more life experience. That doesn't change the fact that I'm going to die and he is my replacement. You'll be surprised how quickly those sales dry up when people realize that the Bambu printer is better and costs less.
You didn't deny it. You are one of the sock puppet master's who hurts me even though I never did anything to you. You don't care about right and wrong or truth. You only care about defending Prusa. You have victimized me for years and you have no remorse about it. Worst still you don't tell me why. You just hide in the shadows of anonymity. You know everything about me like a stalker would. You even knew to put the word stole inside of scare quotes. I removed that title from the video in the first 2 hours after releasing it 5 years ago. That's how well you know me but I don't know anything about you. You won't even give me the common decency of a consistent avatar. I would like to know who my enemy is. Please identify yourself. Please tell me why you so persistently try to harm me. I would like to understand your motivations no matter how ugly they may be.
What do you think about Bambu Lab X1 from the information available?
It appears to be the best printer every sold meeting the parameters that everyone has asked for. If it was my job to make a critical video talking about the failings... I could do that. Nothing is perfect, but I don't feel like it. I'm glad they made it. It advances the tech in a great way and forces all the competitors to do better. This is good for us the consumer. Prusa's forthcoming "Prusa XL" is similarly priced but doesn't appear to be as good. We'll see how it all shakes out once actual production units of both printers are in everyone's hands.
Hello, what is the model of the knipex pliers you are using in the video? Thanks
I got them a few years ago. I think they are just the "Small."
@@DesignPrototypeTest thanks
I think this should habe been two Videos. A Review of the printer and a video of your personal views about prusa. As it stand it just feels like your looking to find problems with the printer because you dont like josef prusa.
My personal feelings about Josef don't change the facts in the video. The Chinese printers made better prints and Josef has an out of control ego that dictates he insult people who are no threat to him just because their talent makes him feel insecure. Why anyone would fanboy for this company/man is beyond me.
@@DesignPrototypeTest i agree with some of your criticism of the printer. Like the inductive probe. Id prefer something like the klicky, works pretty well on my v2. I agree that the MK3 is too expensive compared to much more modern printers.
I just think that much of your valid criticism of the printer gets drowned by what feels like your problems with prusa (the person).
Ive recommended prusas and ive recommended enders. I own a mini+, v0 and v2. With my knowledge today id probably get a sovol as MY first printer. It all depends on what you want your first printers to be.
Upping print speed on both printers is a weird way to compare. Not saying the results would change one way or the other but changing feed rate especially that much is a weird way to compare printers instead of adjusting settings on the slicer end
Here is the test print. And Gcode. You are welcome to try it yourself and see if you get different results. I didn't feel like reslicing both gcode files when I could just run them at a higher speed multiple.
drive.google.com/drive/folders/1JlXvhoycPJheTNbGwG4gmXi5GAawTQg2?usp=sharing
Hello,
why is the double spool holder mounted on the wrong side?
Thank you.
That is indeed the incorrect way to mount it. Towards the top of the build volume, the toolhead will hit it.
The manual was too complex and smart people don't need that much direction :D
Buying my first 3D printer soon and need something out of the box that will work and I won’t have to mess with. Price isn’t a big deal, what would you suggest if building one isn’t my path?
Mingda Magician X
@@DesignPrototypeTest okay I’ll start looking it up. I’m brand brand new to this, you’re videos are awesome.
Does the one your suggesting have a auto leveling bed and things like that or will I have to install that? Just hobby printing.
Thank you for your time
Easy to assemble, touch nozzle bed leveling and filament runout detection. Truly the Prusa I3 Mk.3 Killer.
He's wrong about 60% of the things he was talking about, don't belive what he's saying. Get a Flashforge Adventure 3 or a MK3...
I'm considering buying an MK.3 after running an Ender 3 for 2 years because of all crap I've had to deal with. I've had no end of extruder problems, I'm sick of manual bed leveling and no run-out detection. I'm not at all convinced all the addons to bring the Ender up to the Prusa level won't ALSO add a bunch of failure points that I need to babysit. Most of the other addons that I tried I've since removed because of that, and I think that's more common than Ender 3 fans will ever admit.
People say the Prusa just works really well out of the box and that sounds pretty damn good to me at this point. There's gotta be a reason so many print farms choose them. If some dude's making bank for designing them, congrats to that guy. Sounds like this review was pretty biased for outside reasons.
Many Chinese printers work out of the box these days too. Mingda Magician X for example. Has the same features as a Prusa. BTW What are these vague "issues" you are talking about?
Please don’t listen to him and don’t buy some Chinese machine. He keeps talking about the Czech Republic as a satellite of USSR and in the same time he is recommending Chinese machines. Complete hypocrisy. I have Ender 3 machines and it is a horrible machine to work with if you print on daily basis. I have hero issues with Prusa printers and don’t regret spending more. And I don’t give a flying f*ck who is Prusa, I only care what works for my business
Guy is frustrated with life 😅
Not really. But haters gonna ̶h̶a̶t̶e̶ assume stuff.
Not related to the video, but are you gonna comment on the Bambu Lab X1?
I would love to review it. I won't buy it. It looks like a winner based on what I'm seeing through the internet just like you, but there is no "perfect" thing. There will always be reasons to buy other printers depending on your needs or goals.
In your opinion what is the best Direct Drive 300 x 300 x 400 Cartesian and Core XY? THANKS
Voron. Every time China makes one that I like they stop making it. People say good things about SeckIt printers. Sorry. No definitive answer for this question.
Actually everything has been already said in the comments. Just two more little experiences from me:
Service:
Before I bought my MK3s (today +) I had an Ender 5 pro.
It was quickly assembled. But it took 2 weeks until my first print (I was a complete beginner). They shipped the thing with wrong z-steps for a different spindle. After only a few days I was offered a beta firmware. Thats all help I could get from Creality. It didn't work either and I was in despair until I saw in a video how to set e-steps... Then I thought to myself that there must be something like that for z and then it worked. I changed almost everything on the thing to make it more reliable (which it wasn't until the end), then I changed everything again to increase the print quality. Then I bought the Prusa and everything went well from the beginning. There was a cable break once. I told the chat and they immediately sent me a new one via express.
The print quality is not great, but reliability is the most important thing here. In the meantime, I have also built a Voron. Here the print quality is better, but the reliability still leaves a lot to be desired.
Stolen ideas:
Creality (and many other companies from China) itself has also copied a lot from other companies. Here, the innovation is just as good as the new releases from established, mostly non-Chinese companies.
Big ego from Mr Prusa:
I am not sure if the focus of Prusa Research is due to Mr Prusa's ego.
I think it is a marketing strategy. Similar to Steve Jobs or E.Musk, this one man focus serves to build trust with the customer and from a marketing point of view it seems to work very well. Don't be so harsh, somehow this is not serious despite your otherwise good arguments.
Conclusion: Yes, there are cheaper printers. Yes, many have better print quality and better hardware. For someone who doesn't want to stress and also likes to print materials other than PLA and PETG, the Prusa is perfectly fine. It depends on what your priorities are and what they are worth to you. Super support and very simple, uncomplicated operation were more than worth the money to me. Everyone has to decide for themselves.
This is, without a doubt, the most embarrassing video I have seen in recent memory.
I love my Prusa i3, a trusty machine that I use a lot. Perfect tool, no matter how hard you try.
Hi Sarah, I see you are getting into 3D printing to help you in your hobby of model railroading. I think that is awesome. I love seeing people get passionate about things! In your video you talk about resin printing and show that you are using an Elegoo Saturn machine. This makes sense. MSLA resin printing makes *much* more detailed prints than any FDM extrusion printer including the Prusa I3. Resin printing really is perfect for you. Given your use case, an I3 Mk.3 is probably not even very useful to you. You spent a lot of money for a machine which probably gathers a lot of dust. I'm curious why you did not buy the Prusa MSLA printer and why you are not using the Prusa MSLA slicer. How was this decision making process different from your purchase of an FDM machine where you chose to spend about 4x the money to buy the Prusa I3. Buyer's remorse is a real thing, and "the sunk cost fallacy" causes us to erroneously defend bad purchase decisions, but we should endeavor to be better as human beings. We should not advocate for others to make the same mistakes we made.
@@DesignPrototypeTest thanks for your reply! Actually I do print certain jobs in PLA on the i3 because the material is totally amazing. It does not warp and is holding it's shape so I use it in underframe and truck bolster construction with great success. Could I have bought an Ender? Sure. But I ran into that MK3 first and now I have a really reliable work station. I do slice with the Prusa Slicer. I do use Lychee slicer for my resin prints because I think it's great software and I really di have some experience with it by now.
Don't know if anyone else has already mentioned it, what's your opinion on the upcoming Anker/AnkerMake M5?
I hate the Kickstarter video. Made me throw up in my mouth. The printer looks like it will funciton fantastically. Anker brand should give reputation creedence. You can return, or get customer support. Too much superflous plastic pannels. Looks like an a concept sketch artist industrial designer went to town on it. Why? This isn't a motorcycle. You don't need it to be aerodynamic. But I think it will be a winner.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Thanks for the reply. I think Anker is trying to make printer for dummies, to flat out the learning curve of the 3D printing, and minimize the complexity of the manual operation and maintainace to the very minumum with all techs available at the moment. Don't know if they can really pull it off, but 400mm/s sounds crazily unrealistic on its structure.
prusa work out of the box? so does every printer, I had my first ender 3 working in 2 hours and my second minngda in less than 45 minutes and had been going on since more than 18 months non stop so i don't know what are you talking about.But now i have outgrown them to design a custom CORE xy printer very soon.
I've had my MK3 working since launch about what, five years ago? Hundreds of printing hours. Got Ender 3 V2 and it's fan began to rattle after couple hours and thing sounds like age old vacuum. Not impressed.
Oh this is gonna be good! :) Just clicked the video, excited to hear your thoughts. Never thought I'd see the day. Regardless it's going to be a good video! 🍻
All I learned is that vladimir putin runs a 3d printer company
I don’t think it’s the extruder motor since imperfections are aligned but I do think is due to the torque ripple on X et Y motor. (I own a Prusa, so i hope my comments is legit🤞🏻)
I got my first Ender 1 month after back surgery, after seeing that my friend had one. He was/is printing a Subaru engine. Seeing all those tiny bits and pieces, I HAD to have one. But, I've wanted a 3d printer ever since I heard people were tearing paper printers apart and turning them into 3d printers.
I didn't do any research on what printer to buy, what else was out there, nothing. For $200 I can make whatever I want?!!? Done.
3 months later, I bought another E3.
About this time is when I discovered this impressive piece of machinery called a Voron. Immediately started designing my own CoreXY, because, now having played with the E3's, I understood the mechanics of my Enders. I now have real-world, this is what this does, don't do that, be careful with those, and i won't buy these again, kinds of experience. Well...and the motion of the CoreXY is just...awesome.
Another month, and my resin printer showed up.
So...now I am learning about resins and that whole ball of wax because, I can print the parts EXACTLY how my mind sees them, and I can make them translucent to boot.
I'd say...altogether....I've probably got about $1k invested in all of my 3d printing stuff. Machines, parts, resin, filament, everything. And I gained experience. Had I just bought a Prusa, I would not have anything else that I currently have, and my experience pool would be way shallower.
That, and trying to talk the wife into letting me spend more than a month's rent on a hobby? THAT wasn't gonna happen. $200? Yup. That's easy. Then when she saw what I can do with one? Well.......
Thanks for the video. I truly appreciate the work you put in, and the stark honesty.
Come on its so frustrating! On one hand you say the most intelligent things about open source and the investment needed and coopperation needed for open source communities to be durable. Your opinion is just very well thought out and i absolutly love that.
On the other hand, you become triggered by a few sensitive fanboys and make it my problem by putting your emotionnal speeches as an integral part of your videos.
I might sound harsh on you, but please take this as it is, i love your videos and i want you to do the best possible with your knowledge.
Look, i really dont care about your haters, i dont care about the fanboys droping hate on you, i care about what YOU have to say. So please ignore these idiots and seriously stop making it my problem.
OK. I want a printer that just *WORKS* out of the box. I do not want to tinker with it, I just want to print things for my other hobbies. The Prusa lets me do that. Please point me at another printer that works, instantly, without any tweaks, as well as the Prusa, in the same price range. I know of dozens that don't but I don't know of a single one that does.
I showed one in the video. The Mingda Macician is the smaller version. It will "just work" as well as a Prusa straight out of the box.
@@DesignPrototypeTest and you had to restart the print on it 😆
id suggest getting the upgraded ender 3 cause the base has a 2040 exstrusion that the bed runs on while the pros have a 4040 so the beds wheels are spread farther apart, i have a original ender 3 with the 2040 extrusion an ive never had an issue with it but i also have a aquila which is pretty much a ender 3 v2 but it has the 4040 extrusion for the bed an its bed is more stable over the ender 3, it might just be the fact the ender 3 is older an has alot more printing under its belt so the wheels may need replacing or something while the aquila is still fairly new for me compared to my ender 3 so not really fair to compare them but the base ender 3 vs the pro i feel like its worth buying just for the better psu an 4040 extrusion alone, my base model ender 3 was purchased used for 100 bux due to a dead display but other than that it was fine but this was during the time when the ender 3 was 250ish, pro 280ish so for 100 it was hard to pass up even if it was completely dead it would have cost more for the extrusions alone, same with my aquila, got it on ebay from flashforge returns as a open box for 100 an it was fine only had a single bolt hold with the threads stripped so i cut more deeper an used a longer bolt in that spot an it was literally a brand new printer with everything including the glass bed with plastic covers still on them but it was being purchased for the extrusions until it arrived an i seen what i was actually getting. long story short look into buying used u can get really good deals also the pro or the aquila is worth the extra money over the ender 3 base model.
I own a printer, what was originally Prusa MK3 but yeah, I upgraded it to Caribou 420 (that time Zaribo)... Only thing from orig. MK3 is some wires, Pinda and motherboard... I liked MK3 at first but wanted taller printer and better quality (mosquito v1)... I maybe would have bought some other printer like CR10 or smt, but chinese market was closed for my country that time and so MK3 was my first printer... upgrading it to Caribou was my last upgrade... it works like I want, so I am happy with it....
With my Prusa i3 mk3s+ I had no problems.
I had a Prusa in the cart when I found your channel a while ago. You recommended the Ender 3. I got the 3mk2 (it was cheaper at the time and had a meanwell power supply) and did a few of the upgrades you recommended. I love my Ender 3 (modded) and paid half what the Prusa would have cost. I also learnt a lot on the journey, had pain, had gain, but most importantly, had fun. Thanks.
W comment
Getting and modding an Ender 3 is a great way to learn about 3d printing on a small budget of just $200 plus upgrade costs. However, on the "Project Tool" spectrum, Ender 3 is on the "project" side and Prusa Mk3 is on the "tool" side. Prusa's direct drive extruder, inductive probe bed auto leveling, excellent smooth/textured PEI build sheets, etc, make it the far more capable machine and far more approachable for beginners as well as those who want a "tool" more than a project. Finnicking with bed leveling screws and a bowden extruder is just so far below the Prusa, which can have the user printing a perfect first layer after one minute - but, of course, 750-1000 USD is a far cry from 200 USD. However, Aliexpress shops like Fysetc and Trianglelab sell their own cheaper Prusa kits (the hardware is open source) that bring the cost closer to 400. IMO, Creality's printers have little place in a world with both Prusas and Vorons.
Tragedy of social influencing: influencer, based on X, got you to do what he wanted, not necessarily what was best for you 😁
(X being his idea of how things are)
We see this continuously: hype when new "awesome" cheap printer comes out with few hours testing -> lots of people rush to buy them, flashback when chip shortage causes CPU change to something without community support -> too late for those who bought them already, recommending stuff that is not normally needed and can cause more trouble than help (bad quality full-metal hotends without proper heatsink cooling and retraction settings), instructions to change cheap loud bad fans to other cheap low-flow bad fans.
I have both… still like the prusa more. That said, I make money with my print farm. Like enough to pay for my 2400sq ft corner lot mortgage and much more.
But that said, the Ender does print great. I just got sick of the cheap parts and having to upgrade this and that to get any reliability. I’m running a business and can’t afford to get behind because the Enders we’re having this or that problem. But when she is running she does put out some great prints (with a couple caveats)
I really hate the company creality, I mean, what kind of moron wires the control board cooling fan to the same circuit as the parts cooling fan? With their gamut of machines and huge sales numbers, you’d think they would have a clue what they are doing. But they definitely do not.
which 3d printer would you recommend for a beginner?
I'm not comfortable telling you how to live your life. You are you and I don't know your skillset. Let me provide a few options.
1)The original Ender 3. This is on sale now in person at MicroCenter for $99 or online for ~$200 shipped to your door. There are a ton of videos about this printer. It is just a little more challenging to use as a newbie. But I mean just a little. You should be able to figure it out. There are a ton of people online who can help. And you can upgrade it: th-cam.com/video/399VbXxuOdw/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/xqttz2IZ6ko/w-d-xo.html
2)I like the Mingda Macician X for similar size to a Prusa and also featuring the usability features of filament runout detection and auto bed leveling.
3)If you want to print a little larger like maybe a Stormtrooper helmet or something then you can get the new Ender 3 S1 Plus. At ~$500 and featuring all the usability features this is a good option from the most reliable Chinese brand name.
If you get to a point where you are printing so much that reliability becomes an issue I think you will be well beyond asking me questions and fully understanding the issues yourself. Being a 3D printer operator is kind of like being a woodworker. It's not hard once you understand all of it. There really isn't that much to understand but it will probably take you 6 months of learning/experimenting. Best of luck and welcome to the hobby!
Creality bolts are seperated in celophane bags with the sizes printed on them.
Helo! I hope you'll see my reply. I have been a follower of yours for a while, wanted to get into 3d printing, so I got a sh*tty Ender 3 v2. I hated the crap out of it, made me think about if I want to continue the hobby or not... This thing had problems: warped bed after a week of use, crappy extureder gear that kept slipping, part cooling fan that gave up the ghost in its first month... So after that really shitty printer I was hesitant to buy a Prusa since they are expensive... then a local listing poped up for a MK2.5s. I bought it... And I can't even state how happy I am with my purchase. This thing was originally manufactured in May of 2017, yet it still kicks the Ender that was made in October of 2021. Sure the Ender is a cheaper printer, but it has such a shitty quality and many people like you say that these things are great starter printers.... You also bash the company and the printer on everything that it is and everything that it isn't. I don't understand why you can't leave them alone. Yes, its not perfect, but you have to think about that the MK3 is 5 years old now, with only 2 minor revisions; Now think about how many versions of ender 3s there are....
A Prusa is still not perfect but you have to give credit where credit is due.
Prusa for printing and Ender for tinkering with printer. Yeah, I own Ender 3 V2 and MK3S.
I completely disagree with you. I had Ender 3 for ~2 years and it was never 100% reliable. I felt the need to do upgrades to it and it wasn't always smooth - I had to go through a lot of troubleshooting and maintenance. 2 weeks ago I received my original Prusa i3 MK3S+ and it just works. Assembly took ~10 hours and was quite complicated but it prints flawlessly. Finally I have a printer that just works for me. Attention to detail is simply unmatched compared to Chinese printers. Prusa nailed down the hardware, firmware and their slicer. It all works as a seamless ecosystem and I love it.
Ender 3s are just as good as Pursas for 1/3 the price
i think the issue with the spire was due to minimum layer times. Thats the only reason I can think of why it would get messed up as soon as the rest of the print is complete.
Yes. I've experimented with the minimum layer time on *a single spire.* It does have an effect but it's not very substantial. For more dramatic improvement design your G-code so that the print head leaves the area in between each layer. The radiant heat coming from the nozzle keeps the thin spire soft even if you decrease or increase the minimum layer time. In the case of the video the two spires had pretty similar layer times all the way up the spire. The part cooling on the Prusa really is that much worse. It would be hard to design a worse fan duct than what Prusa sends in the kit. I would improve the design, but I vowed NEVER to help Prusa improve his products again after I got burned 5 years ago. th-cam.com/users/shortsRp5K_gSmKoE
I got to have this plier of yours! Could you tell me what’s the name?
Knipex brand of "Parallel Pliers." Made in Germany They are high quality and also high priced. I believe these are the medium size. In recent times Cobalt and Irwin brands have also released parallel pliers. They cost a lot less. They available at Lowes if you live in the states.
I like your analogy with the polished turd 😄 When I recommend a printer to non-tinkerers, I usually recommend a Prusa. Mainly because I know that I will be the first guy they contact once something goes wrong. Prusas quality control, documentation and community ensures that I have to do as little technical support as possible. I don't care how much those people have to pay in order for me to not be the tech support guy 😅 It's the same reason why I recommend a Macbook to my parents and an iPad to my grandparents. It's to make sure that my job as tech support is as small as possible.
On the other hand, Chinese quality standards have gone up and some of their communities are huge as well. I'm especially thinking of Creality right now. The gap is steadily closing...
I got an ender 3 s1 recently, and despite a problem with the printing surface, the machine has functioned flawlessly, quietly, and has made the learning experience pretty fun. I barely had to assemble anything (less than 20 minutes), any it just worked. For $400 it feels pretty hard to beat, though it could use higher temperature printing ability and octoprint capability on board. I think we'll see that in the next year or two's iteration of the ender 3 as creality moves higher up the integration stack.
I would have liked the video without all the hate a lot more.
I am prusa user can u do a prusa mini review I want to see more roasting and trolling
Before watching any further: Please tell me where I can get those fancy parallel yawed pliers 🤤
15:30 it’s not important that the measure changes over temperature. The probe is used for bed mesh and not to sense the distance for a first layer height.
Voron design printers uses induktive probes as well for example.
Your Prusa hate is a little bit to much for me. Prusa is doing a really good job and this cost money.
I don’t have a Prusa but I will buy one at some point. For know my Voron 2.4 is all I need.
I think that’s my last video I watching from you. Have a nice time anyway.
The T-shit was the most obvious egotistical "im full of myself" display i've ever seen. It literally only works if Joseph himself is wearing it and no one else. wtf
I was in the middle of responding to your first comment before you edited and went on this critical vector. My response to you was glitched into oblivion when you (edited). Because you deleted your first criticism and chose this one instead it is clear that you don't have a problem with my video on theoretical or moral grounds. You have a problem with me. You are just trying to find something to justify that problem. You come to conclusions first then look for evidence. Which is the cardinal sin of science. Since you have no scientific reasoning skills I don't understand why the STEM hobby of 3D printing interests you.
Also the statement Everyone is a maker, only I am a printer Prusa" is on a Prusa video with Josef Prusa in the video. The slogan is attached to media with his person. He is the only one in the video with that name. It is therefore the same as wearing the slogan on his chest. If it was a random person out in public wearing the shirt and Josef wasn't around the conversation would be different. Context matters.
Comgrow was selling 10 Ender 3 refurbished at Amazon for $350.
I've got an older manual that doesn't seem to be that dumbed down. I found the gummy bear reward kind of fun, but I get it. I write documentation for IT professionals and you can't assume what they know so you make it as basic as possible. Maybe they should ask their customer about skill level at the point of purchase, then a send a tailored manual for that level? I get how super dumb manuals can be insulting or just lacking complete information, it just gives ya breadcrumbs then expects you to figure out the rest. I can appreciate how the Prusa manual doesn't really give someone much room to mess up. I'm with you though, this thing is nothing special and has more problems than my others.
get a life.... why are you so busy doing what you accuse Josef Prusa of doing to undermine the work of others.... you then show one of the bigger reasons why humanity is so inferior to each other.... fine you do not like prusa and it is also perfectly okay you do not want to recommend a prusa but stop being so personal... everyone who has achieved what Josef prusa has achieved has the right to be proud and a little smug.. in denmark we have something called the jante law which is a social law that says you should not think you are anything special.... but you are damn special if you have been able to build a company to that extent and create you such a strong reputation...
I would still recommend a prusa for use in labs and schools where people just wanna use the printer without much interest in how it works, despite the price tag(not an issue in such cases) and "monopoly" you mentioned, its still more consistent and reliable(especially when operated by people without experience) than most other printers (and ofc much better than an ultimaker......) but yes for a hobby itself an ender is a much better way to learn about the process and actual science behind the 3D printing technology.
I find it funny quite often when people proudly tell me they have very good knowledge on 3d printing as they have printed(on prusas) for years and cannot tell when a first layer is too high and the extrusion lines look too thin.
comment from a man who started in 2014 with a $100 Kossel Kit and just finished printing voron parts with his heavily modified Ender 3 ;)
Yes. I don’t think he realizes some people want a machine, not a hobby
@@ibrue It's exactly that. Hobby VS workhorse...
Had the speed turned way up on the prusa and the only issue with the print was the tip of the cone. Im not a prusa fan boy but can’t act like they don’t have some of the best print quality out of the box
How many of you idiots are going to leave this comment. You think you can DDOS this into reality? I clearly stated in the video that both printers were turned up to 235% It was a fair comparison. I'm not cheating these results. The Prusa printed inferior to the Focus.
As a person that started this hobby diving to the deep end by designing a CoreXY motion system from scratch and an Ender-3 v2 owner myself, I noticed inherent accuracy and long-term repeated problems due to poor design after a few months of use.
• The linear guides for the z-axis travel are fiddly to align. Although the linear guides function with misalignment due to the somewhat soft nature of the v-wheel, it causes excessive wear.
• The plate bracket connecting the z linear guides, single leadscrew nut, and the cross beam does not do a great job holding the cross beam in place. The single lead screw design choice creates a moment load to the driven side bracket as the non-driven end of the cross beam is not vertically supported. The driven side plate bracket is inadequate because the only thing that is contracting the moment load is the friction between the anodized aluminum crossbeam and coated steel plate clamped together with a stainless steel bolt threaded into the aluminum cross beam. The weak hold is especially problematic if one opts for a direct-dive filament feeder modification, as it will add weight to the moment arm and exacerbate the problem.
• The dive belt attached to the X and Y-axis carriages are not parallel, making the linear displacement per pulley rotation uneven though the span of the axis travel causing dimensional inaccuracies of the printed parts.
• The design of the pre-loading mechanism of the filament feeder is highly questionable. The part made of plastic has a design that uses bolt threads supported on one side as pins. Although Creality tried to compensate for this by adding a plastic tube around the bolt attaching the preloading arm, it is still a cantilever pint attached by a single bolt with no mechanical joints preventing the plastic tube from rotating and getting loose. Moreover, the ball bearing that push the filament into the hobbed gear still uses the treated bolt like it is a dowel pin.
• The PTFE liner inside the hot-end rotates, giving room for the molten filament to get between the nozzle and the liner, causing extrusion issues after a spool of prints.
I see so many abandoned Ender-3 printers because of these flaws. I am yet to find an upgrade kit that addresses all these issues at once. I wish I were the time and ability to develop a kit design delivering on a promise to resolve all these issues in under $200 of mechanical components.
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On a side note, I see many linear rail “upgrade” kits with sketchy brackets or 3D printed “upgrades.” So many of these modifications make people’s Ender-3 just more quirky and expensive, not any better.
When I wanted to upgrade my 3d prints and take my 3d printing game to the next level, my first thought was NOT to get a prusa. Why is that , this video sums up how outdated the prusa mk3 is, yet it is considered one of the best. I decided to go with a voron 2.4 kit from matter hackers. 1800 dollars that less then two fully assembled mk3. I will say I do like prusa slicer for those paint on supports.
I agree with everything you said about prusa. Completely outdated.
I almost bought a Voron, I wanted one for months but couldn't bring myself to spend that much on one printer being that I want a farm. So I almost built a 0.1 kit just for prototyping. Then I found out Two Trees finally worked all the bugs out of their Sapphire SP5, so now I have a Voron for $450.
Thinking of selling my two enders and getting two more SP5'S.
The Prusa Mk3 is for sure outdated compared to the Voron, V core, etc. But it's still the best i3 style printer which is still the most ubiquitous style of FDM desktop printers. Voron is a 50 hour project or more (build planning, sourcing, assembly, setup, and tuning), not really the same beast at all. I did countless hours of research for my RatRig V Core 3, countless hours of assembly, and I'm still fine tuning it months later after assembly.
@@TheRAINMan059 Exactly. Yes the voron is a nice printer. Would you recommend it to a beginner? No wayyy.
Voron is nice project, though I like Rat Rig way more. Prusa is indeed out-dated design, but that's actually something you want when starting 3D printing. Prusa just works out-of-box with it's profiles and keeps working year after year. Heck I've almost crashed my Prusa with Octo few times as I've remembered that I haven't detached previous prints during heat up cycle 😄
Prusa is simply put, the best choice for one who wants to begin to print without any hassles. Enders and such just don't deliver on any front except for cheap price which shows. Just got Ender 3 V2 out of curiosity next to other and it's simply put pretty damn awful printer. Heck the fans began to rattle after couple hours and they even sound like old vacuum. Not pleasant experience out-of-box. Well you get what you pay for. Nice printer for printer hobbyist. Not for printing 😃
@@jothain A Prusa MK3S+ (or a Prusa Mini for those cash strapped) is literally the best way to go for a beginner. You don't want the initial impression of the hobby to be hours of toil on subpar hardware. If they get hooked on the idea of printing, they'll start looking into upgrades and learn the fundamentals of the engineering along the way. But until then, you want their experience to be smooth. A prusa printer with PrusaSlicer and a nice removable Prusa PEI sheet is exactly what you want beginners to learn with. Not a bucket of junk.
I own many printers from Ender 3, Cr10s, my own built Prusa bear and a legit Prusa, and I really think that the Prusa is worth the money and a fantastic printer and if you have the money buy one over other printers. I do think it has many shortfalls but it's a fantastic printer.
It's also using sensor less homing by the current changes/resistance in the stepper drivers.
It frustrates me that people call it the Prusha. I also can't help but feel you're slightly bitter about the Prusa and how it's pushed itself to the forefront of Fdm printers.
I don't think those instructions are an insult. Details are extremely important to avoid issues in this hobby and the instructions and knowledge base can be a gold when you finally face one.
I don't disagree with the notion of providing all the details but telling people how to eat the gummy bears...Putting Josef's face on the page to indicate using a certain tool...You have admit these instructions go too far.
I know thi sis an old video, but I found it useful. I'm actually considering a Prusa Mini (a nearly 5 year old printer) against the new Bambu A1 Mini. A lot of the arguments you've raised are what I'm dealing with. Old tech, vs. New, open source vs. closed, etc. Its an interesting take on prusa the company and prusa the man. Do I want to reward a company for not innovating (prusa) or give my money to a company that is more closed source, accused of copying, but is innovating (bambu)
The issues around open source are muddy enough that you cannot derive clear guidance. Instead, go with your own self-interests. Go with the printer you think will provide the best service to you for the least amount of money.
dont buy prusa mini is a shitty printer mine did not have a perpendicular XY 1.5mm off on X when ask prusa how to fix the give me guide to all other the this issue seems there not able to fix it .. dont get how a factory assemblet printer can be that bad
@@kretoooo Yep, I bought (and returned) the mini because the X axis is not square to the bed and caused issues.
this is the first time ive heard such a perspective on Prusa, and I think you point out some interesting observations. maybe at some points went a little off the rails (Prusa = Putin of printing? Kinda weak statement imho), but again, really the first time I've heard this type of criticism and I think its something to be aware of, so thumbs up for that.