Why people are concerned about single staircase apartments
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- Why are many concerned about single staircase apartments, and what can we do to make them safer?
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Did a fire write this
I'm pro-burning-stuff and I endorse this message.
not the apology couch
not the apology ukalalle
😂😂
2 videos in one week, we are blessed -w-
Very much agreed, was so surprised to see a second upload 😍
as it was said in the prophecy!
The US has double the amount of fire deaths per thousand compared to Germany and Germany has more relaxed second stairwell rules
Germany straight up doesn't require a second staircase in apartment buildings up to 60m (18ish stories), and doesn't require that they be pressurized in buildings up to 22m (~7 stories)
Yeah but they're Europoors so that doesn't count #NorthAmericaUbermensch
The age of American recidentual buildings are way older than any country in Europe. And we build with wood mostly. This the single biggest difference that makes us different from any other country in the world. When you have concrete/brick blocks to build buildings, you never worry about wind, water damage, etc. the only thing that kills most people is just the smoke, which is much easier to deal with than fire burning through everything. The only people actually travel the world know how stupid you are to only judge matters by the surface.
Only because our buildings are built with 80% of wood, even for high raise buildings. Sure, let's change the code to require all concrete and brick, we will see the numbers go down 90%. But at what cost? Most part of Europe can afford to use wood because they simply don't have enough forest to cut. But I agree that wood is probably the worst material to build buildings in terms of material properties.
@@aliciafaulkner416 fire-resistant wood is a thing
That sigh at the beginning of the video says it all. Having concerns over new ideas is fair and valid, but when people use hostility, finger-pointing, and name calling to state their concerns instead of doing so in a respectful manner, they've made it clear they don't want a conversation they just want to fight.
Another excellent video, Uytae!
Usually when they resort to name calling and hostility it's because they can't think of a logical argument.
@@frederickclause2694 Tone policing is a logical fallacy. And the way you said it, ironically an ad hominem too. If they didn't have a valid argument independent of their anger, there wouldn't have been anything to make a nuanced 10 minute video about, addressing those valid arguments with equally valid ones. An equal if not greater part of the problem in these situations is that most people don't respond to potentially justified anger with a sigh and research, and a genuine attempt to educate
BRAVO. We need more intelligent analysis like this.
Why won't people get it, smaller and denser residential units also meant everything get closer together, if you can't put fire out, smaller building meant it's very short trip downstairs.
And if it get bad, smaller buildings make city denser, so fire truck can get to you much faster. And they also get to the fire source faster than larger building.
and your ladder trucks will actually reach the upper floors.
And properly built building and doors can Contain a fire and stop it(Or significantly slow it) from spreading to other rooms. which is significantly better
@worawatli8952 bro stop, you’re applying logic and reason. People are only supposed to comment on TH-cam videos if they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. You should know… brick good, wood bad 🦧
But they aren't smaller and denser. They're just the same area (and approximate height) of building divided up into more lots. He actually says the large buildings were MORE suited to only small (ie, dense) apartments. We could put some extra walls through the large apartment and paint each section a different color -- but this would not make anything denser. You're attributing social differences to a mainly cosmetic difference in construction style.
@derp3044 read urbankchoze
One thing that gets overlooked in the debate is that a second stair doesn't mean a second means of egress from the unit, if a fire spreads beyond the unit it started in you're asking everyone on that floor to find their way through a smoky hallway to stairs that they may not regularly use. Whereas in a single stair building the units open right onto the stairway so there is no getting lost in the smoke on the way there.
And these problems are made worse because most American buildings with double loaded corridors have more residents per staircase. The existing paradigm exaggerates all the problems it is supposed to protect us from.
@ConeMan1212 they don't have to be that way with hallways. You simply build an exterior staircase on the back of the unit. Extremely common in Chicago - your front door opens to the front stairs, your back door (usually in the kitchen) opens to the back stairs.
That's why in many counties, there is requirement to ensure smoke doesn't spread from one to another stair, through ventilation or pressurization
Yeah in addition to path towards those stairs is short and direct. They might even be used commonly instead of the elevator at least for buildings up to 5 floors.
THE UKELELE LMFAOOO I love the humour in your videos so much
i saw it in the thumbnail, and was like.. is he really doing this?
Is the ukelele thing in reference to a prior video or comment? I am derping out here
See Colleen Ballinger ukulele apology. You’ll have to find a reuploaded version because the original was taken down after it went viral in an unintended way
@@MightyEumendies ahaha. Ok so that’s some internet lore I missed first time round. Thanks for the context 🤘
Usually Uytae's got some smooth graphics going for visualizations, but weirdly enough I quite like the hand drawn on paper method of showing things. Feels kinda charming idk
Yeap - a holistic approach, guided by fire safety experts, is what is needed. Appreciate your level headed look at this.
Except in practice corners will be cut. The stairwell pressurization system in my building hasn't worked since the building was built. Multiple complaints to fire department, they don't care.
@@TheCatherineCC Agree. Can't rely on active systems - even if it "works," the power source that runs the fan may fail in the emergency, causing the system to not work.
@owd200 Regarding the fire safety experts, they aren't always looking at a holistic approach, either. Here in Chicago/Illinois, they have been trying to require older high-rises to install fire sprinkler systems for years at great expense (if even feasible); however, the rate of deaths and injuries in high rise fires is very low (one document I found that from HUD that is dated averages just over 10 per year nationwide). I'm not trying to minimize the number of deaths, but that money could be spent on many other things that are much more likely to cause death. Further, Chicago has gotten much more strict with maintenance, which, as was pointed out, is an essential factor of any scheme to minimize injury and loss from fire.
In Sweden we have a minimum 60 minute fire rating on walls between apartments. This makes it unlikely that a fire will spread since it will probably have been out out before those 60 minutes elapse. (Doors have a 30 minute fire rating.)
As a bonus, this is likely to result in better sound insulation between units.
@@PaulFisher Fire and noise protection? I would LOVE that. My neighbors are nice, and not even particularly noisy, but I can hear them like I'm in the room with them, and I'm sure they can hear me 😩
Architect here. My multifamily developer clients have all equipped their range hoods with Stovetop Firestop or equivalent. It’s a cheap device that will blast baking powder down onto the stovetop even before the sprinklers activate, avoiding water damage. I’m not shilling for the brand, just want to point out options.
Single stairwells may still have issues with security, if a nefarious actor wants to set the building on fire or otherwise attack residents. Scissor stairs (2 inter-weaved stairs) may be an alternate solution, like they have at the Las Vegas Stratosphere.
I thought Scissor Stairs were no longer an option in the USA after 9/11. Regardless, since they use the same egress I am not sure how they would help against a "nefarious actor". fire suppression residential range hoods on the other hand are fantastic and I will be getting one (whenever I can afford that kitchen reno).
Nuance upon nuance. It's something that comes up across so many urbanist topics. Induced demand, bike lane networks, upzoning, etc. Its so easy to focus on the little things and forget the bigger picture. Thanks for zooming out a bit--and nice job responding to the internet haters!
Two About Here videos in a week? I'm here for it!
One more staircase will fix fire safety. Just one more staircase…
Lol I was thinking the same, it felt awfully familiar....
just one more lane...
That's why I would never live stacked like a rat in a building with stairs 😂
Just like "one more lane" will fix traffic congestion in roads. Utter clownery
Actually really glad this video was made because while I understood the premise of the rule, I've spent a lot of time since then thinking about if that's actually the right solution. Seeing that there's been a lot of recent research done on this topic makes me feel more confident in advocating for a change in the rule. Thanks!
Presurizing stairwells is very similar to what is done with tunnel fires. Imagine a fire in a train tunnel. A train is in a giant long tube, switches to other tracks don't exist or are very far apart. What happens is the ventilations fans start pushing air in the opposite direction of the fire to pressurize a part of the tunnel so passengers can walk from their train to the nearest station/cross-passage/emergency exit. For example, if the back of a train catches fire, ventilation fans will push air the other direction so people can exit safely through the front.
One point that I think is missed is what is safer: the world's most fire-protected home that only 10% of people can afford, or ensuring everyone has a home?
But I strongly agree with this video and think its structure and focus is quite strategic. And as someone who was a trained firefighter, air pressure control cannot be understated.
I think this is implied at at the end (9:50) when talking about the refusal by most states to adopt sprinkler requirements in single family homes (to keep house construction relatively cheaper).
“We as a society are often willing to make tradeoffs in safety to pursue other priorities.”
The air pressure stairwell idea is quite smart, realky. It would disrupt tge whole fire convection patterns. With proper firewalls between apartments it could contain a fire well.
Okay, I'm pretty sure homelessness isn't caused by fire safety rules. In fact, in countries with poor building standards, it's poor people who have the higher risk of dying from those poor standards.
@@unvergebeneid No one here is talking about throwing out all fire safety rules, in fact the video is generally advocating for implementing much more effective modern fire safety rules such as sprinklers, fire/smoke rated doors, fan pressurized egress corridors to keep smoke out during evacuation, etc. The most important having building inspectors with actual teeth to enforce compliance.
They’re talking about changing double stair reqs. to all residential buildings above 2-3 stories to 5-6 stories (which is much more in line with the rest of the wealthy world. They’re advocating this because 1) It’s a relatively antiquated law from ~100 years ago when buildings/furniture were much more flammable and technology like sprinklers were very rare, and 2) because you have a huge tradeoff in not being able to build ~20 unit small footprint apartments in more places.
Obviously there’s a large bucket of reasons why there’s a housing crisis (primarily exclusionary zoning then parking minimums, IMO) but inefficiencies like double stair requirements that don’t seem to actually have a meaningful boon to public safety also contribute to fewer units being built than needed. Remember that the housing crisis isn’t just about homelessness, it’s about working people having to spend upwards of 2/3rds of their income to just keep a roof over their families head.
If you want a short written out argument on the subject, I’ll recommend this from Archiectural Record, it has a really great graphic at the end showing how the US/Canada (outside Seattle and NYC) are such an extreme outlier on this regulation:
www.architecturalrecord.com/articles/16880-exit-strategy-the-case-for-single-stair-egress
Why should we assume that these two outcomes are exclusive? Are multiple staircases by and large the most affordable fire mitigation strategy?
7:00 Most extreme measure I know of is in Taiwan, they have emergency escape ropes or ladder in every floor of low-rise buildings. If you can't get out via staircase, you could use the last resort of climbing down outside.
My Japanese apartments were the same. The balconies had emergency fire exit hatches with rope ladders in them. Although I was in a small office building that had way out on the second and third floor and at night the earthquake shutter was pulled down and locked from the outside, so you could not even use the stairs at night.
In Montreal, so-called single-staircase building are common - that is single INDOOR staircases. Outdoor staircases (technically not a fire escape) attached to the rear balconies are common for these types of low-rise buildings. That also gives people options to evacuate through the front of the building or the back, instead of only through an interior (potentially smoke-filled) hallway.
In Vancouver though, our deep lots make this hard, as buildings will almost always be deep enough that the front unit would not have access to that stair in back. So it's a geometry issue due to property and not just building code.
@@ianwilliamrobertson Yeah, the buildings I'm talking about, the units are the full depth of the building, so they each have both front & back windows and balconies. There are not front and back units.
What you describe sounds like the "how many units per staircase" type of analysis described in the video - in addition to overall fire resistance of the building's construction - to determine if it's ok or not.
I'd love to hear more about fire escapes. I get that that should likely stay in the past, but they are kind of an awesome element of North American urbanism.
until they fall off the wall
The metal kind that are only deployed in an emergency are literal trash. They rust, they aren't maintained, and the drop-down ladders may fail. When most were installed, firefighters did not wear Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus, so the passages are often too small and firefighters' gear gets snagged on them.
It is simpler, easier, and cheaper to build exterior stairs that residents can use all of the time, as is common on older Chicago apartment buildings. They're great for taking the trash out, walking the dog, moving furniture, and most have at least a small porch to hang out on or do container gardening on.
Seattle's code has these safety features...but it also adds 1-hr corridor protection which is a nice cheap feature that improves the 1/2 hr rating required by the model IBC building code. 1-hr corridor means it takes longer for the fire to spread into the corridor from the unit of origin.
Not the ukulele!
I live in a 6 story 1 staircase in NYC and it's the least crowded building I have ever lived in. Also in new builds, the dry wall is fireproof to contain fires. I remember a high rise fire in NYC 10 years ago where the fire was only contained to one apartment and the only people that died were a couple that thought you were supposed to escape the building but died from the smoke filled staircase. Everyone else stayed in their apartment and survived.
Man, some youtube commenters really need to travel around. No double staircases in Europe, cause we know how to make buildings that don't burn.
Yes and no.
Single staircase Greenfell Tower over 70 dead and pretty common in the UK.
Double staircase mandatory in Germany for building beyond 21m highest occupied floor.
Still very common for buildings beyond 5 stories.
Very common to used calcium silicate bricks.
Common issue for spread in larger building is insulation like those used at the greenfell tower or like in Valencia cladding.
@@paxundpeace9970129 rooms with up to 600 people all using one staircase is not the idea he's proposing 😭 notice the buildings he is showing in the video are skinnier apartment blocks, each floor belonging to a single apartment and maximum of 5-6 stories...
Again, in both videos he's talking about no more than 5 or so stories. Beyond that the footprint typically and obviously can take another staircase.
Pls listen to the nuance first if you wish to provide nuance.
@@paxundpeace9970sorry I'm reading your comment again and you aren't arguing against the video, just giving examples of places in Europe where he is wrong 😭 my bad, but I'll leave my original comment up in case people want more facts about the horrific incident
@@paxundpeace9970 And yet the rate of fire deaths is almost 3x in the US. Weird
The best part of all this is the discussion has begun vs pretending there is no need to advance out dated codes.
Everyone should google Lawrence Veiller. Single stair bans were entirely pretextual to stop the construction of multifamily housing, it isn’t about fire safety at all.
My apartment block here in Denmark has a bit of a compromise. It's essentially a row of single staircase apartments, with all the benefits that provide. But the top floor, right under the roof, is a long hallway with access to the other stairwells. So should a fire start under your apartment, you can just go up and over.
There are of course firebreaks in the hallway, in case the fire reaches it. And the leftover space doubles as storage, so no need to keep your christmas lights in the apartment.
And because such storages are offen reason of fire and worst kind of fire (lot of nasty flamables there) is nice to place them outside of apartment and on the roof above evryone and everythink.
This video was lit. Absolute FIRE 🔥💯🔥
Great video! Sent this to my dad who was a fire chief in a Minneapolis suburb for nearly two decades and one of the state's fire chief's association and he says you got it spot on. Two things he has harped on since I moved out for college was that any place I move into should have both an in-unit sprinkler system and someone who is testing and properly checking on them along with all other areas of the building's overall safety.
I'm curious how you test a sprinkler system.
@@Maranville inspectors are able to run tests where the sprinkler won't release any water. Basically just a test of the components. As long as the building has working access to the city's water they should be good to go.
Great video. I really appreciate how you address actual concerns that people bring up and give a well thought out response. So refreshing.
The automatic pressurized stairwell idea is especially good, this is the same tech that fire fighters use to vent a building except now they don't have to lug up their own fans and the fan kicks in as soon as the alarm is triggered.
By this logic every single family house should need 2 stair cases. See how fast these people will change their minds when they have to pay for those renovations
The need for secondary egress is due to SF. Very few single family residences are more than 3000 SF per floor.
Tbh, I do kinda wish my house has sprinklers tho. Fire freaks me out and I would love sprinklers. I've even looked into installing one-off sprinklers not hooked into water in the ceiling for the kitchen and other areas, but because it's so uncommon in North America, you can't really get them anywhere?
Single-family homes have other regulations affecting them, like upper-story windows needing to be big enough for firefighters to get through, or basement rooms needing egress windows. So "this logic" is already in effect, just manifested in different ways.
@Zalis116 except you're still ignoring the full picture to try and prove a point that just isn't supported by the facts. It's not as if apartment buildings only have two staircases for fire safety related codes! There's sprinklers, material considerations, and window access is still a thing with apartment buildings to top it all off.
@@Zalis116 We could also apply these design requirements on small apartment buildings and voila no need for a second stairway
Yes to building maintenance! So many apartments fall into disrepair in the US because of the lack of routine property maintenance. Overgrowth can build up really fast and be quite scary in the fall time during fire season, especially once wooden fences fall into disrepair too
The proposed changes to the Canadian building codes could require exit width calculations based on occupant counts specifically for point access buildings. So instead of the 1100mm minimum, bump it up so there’s room for firefighters and exiting occupants. Even if the stair has to be 1500mm wide that’s still a win.
A good point in the first video was also that access to more windows is a possibility with one staircase. A window is an amazing fire exit if needed.
Perfect intro and outro xD
I mean, if two staircases are safer than one, then obviously three would be better than two! Or four would be better! Or five! The numbers in the end are arbitrary...
The colleen ballinger reference 😭😭
Where?
@@tahasilat7394Beginning of video. Colleen Ballinger released a video where she played a ukulele and sang while denying accusations of abusing her stardom to take advantage of kids to use for free labour and grooming them. It's becomea major meme.
Great research and thanks for summarizing the important notes from the code consultant report
Keep up the good work, Uytae. Your well-researched, well-produced, and thoughtful content actually changes people's minds. Your persuasive and creative ability, applied to the urbanism space, is helping to bring about the changes we need in the real world!
As a plumber, I see a lot of issues of poor efforts to install fire stops in-between units.
Surprising that you didn't mention a method popular in the Soviet union: Isolate the staircase from the apartments.
In some buildings, staircases are behind a door that will not let fire/smoke through. So as soon as you're on the staircase - you're safe.
In high rise (>9 stories), you have a staircase which requires you to go to a balcony first. There is no way for smoke to get in there.
Pretty simple, yet, elegant solution.
Excellent explanation - so leveled headed and thorough, too.
We have to have sprinklers anyway. Make the hallway and staircase smoke and fire rated. And don't leave huskies in your kitchen! California has sprinklers in single family homes. It is a big expense, but mostly, when you go to remodel and have to add sprinklers, your remodel can become infeasible. Most houses do not have the proper sized water connection for a sprinkler system. So then people don't get a permit.
Inspection and maintenance is so key... Last week a building in Toronto partially collapsed; its roof failed, pushing out the front wall and endangering the people outside and the people inside. That whole calamity could very likely have been prevented with a proper inspection and maintenance regime.
Would have been good to note that US/Canada have higher rates of fire death than Europe and other countries with single staircases legalized. And most of the US/CAN deaths are in the single family homes that are more lightly regulated (that no one wants to force more onerous requirements on).
What I wondered about this is do those statistics separate out Multi family apartments and single family homes? Because I have to assume the death rates are much more weighted towards single family homes and the US/Canada have much higher proportion of SFH compared to Europe (exceptions being the Dutch and Swiss I guess).
7:39 as someone who went through an apartment fire where the smoke alarms and emergency lighting DIDNT WORK, huge agreement here.
Inspection, maintenance, and testing are extremely important.
We didnt even know there was a fire until we woke up and smelled smoke. The hallway was dark and thick smoke was present. By the time we got out, i heard a firefighter call on the radio that the fire was out...
Side note: that week the alarms were fixed, tested, and confirmed working. All emergency lighting that was faulty was also repaired. I bet the fire marshall was *mad*
We were lucky the fire was contained in a single unit. It could have been much, much worse.
I am simple man. I see new About Here, I click.
What mostly kills building occupants isn't fire, per se, but smoke. A fire in one corner of a building, without compartmentalization, can generate enough toxic smoke to kill everyone. Unfortunate discovery of this fact over the decades has informed many, many life-safety and mechanical codes in-place today.
Hallways & stairwells are also called "areas of refuge", and delivering fresh air to these areas to slightly pressurize them is critical for controlling smoke migration in residential buildings. Most older multi-residential buildings, in addition to lacking fire sprinklers, also lack a means of hallway & stairwell pressurization. These are features common in newer buildings and are modern code requirements.
Any old, decrepit building without sprinklers or hallway pressurization is a death-trap in a fire, no matter how many stairwells you want to build. Any building with just one stairwell, properly designed to modern codes with sprinklers AND hallway/stairwell pressurization, is infinitely safer.
Looking abroad needs context. Greece has basically no fire requirements for apartment buildings. But floorplates are typically small, they're all reinforced concrete, floors are almost entirely tile or stone, insulation was thin and encased, dryers are a novelty. windows are aluminum. It was very hard to start a fire, and very hard to spread it. That doesn't translate to American stick, foam, rubber carpet and PVC construction.
But it also doesn't translate to even the current risk profile. Buildings are retrofitted with gas and external, very flammable insulation. Whatever your acceptable level of risk is, you may want some leeway, not just for wear and tear but also future proofing.
Thanks for thoroughly explaining the issue and your perspective. :)
This video is 11 minutes. It is so well researched, so well presented, and so fun!! I love this channel!! Keep it up
Great to have more videos quickly!
This is one of the most intelligent TH-camrs out there!
You could create an entire video about how North American urban design is driven by the ridiculous size of our fire trucks and garbage trucks!
Thanks for taking a fundamentally misunderstood thing and and explaining the facts in a way that everybody can understand.
Why aren't there any H, Y or T type apartment buildings in North America and Europe like they build in East Asia? All units have windows on two sides and a scissor staircase meets the two staircase requirement while taking up only the space of one.
My building in Chicago from the 1960s (21 stories) does have scissor stairs. They have fallen out of favor and I'm not sure if they are allowed by current codes.
One huge point that wasn't discussed: Single stair buildings are almost always pretty small. So a building 100m long requires 2 staircases, but five 20m buildings would fit in the same space and have 5(!) staircases. The average resident of that block would actually be closer to a staircase if they were in a single stair building.
He discussed this point exactly
He did mention limits on units/bedrooms per floor and height limits, but I would like people to show a comparable connected point access block to a double loaded building of the same size to show that there's actually more staircases. The BC report had basic graphics of single stair buildings allowed in different regions, but they did a poor job of showing the actual (small) scale of them.
Brought up around 5:30, but a good point none the less.
@@geoff5623 Exactly. I should have said "wasn't discussed enough." Explicitly demonstrating how single stair/point access actually results in more stairs and less corridor on a given plot of land is invaluable.
I really love and appreciate the work from this channel. As you pointed out here there are lots of great solutions to the two stair problem. I would love to live in a one staircase building despite the risks.
The building I live in is actually two buildings fused together. So there are two staircases, but residents can only ever get to one of them without leaving one end of the building and entering at the other. Kinda weird, but also they are essentially single staircase apartments. The staircase is next to my front door and leads directly to the front door. It almost feels like living in a house. I’ll never go back to those massive multi staircase apartments. It’s almost the best apartment I’ve ever lived in despite being the smallest. Size isn’t everything. Sometimes it’s the features of the building itself (single-staircase) and the community infrastructure (I’m lucky enough to live within biking distance of everything I need) that make a good apartment great.
There is such a thing as Dry Sprinklers Systems, yup! These could be a great solution for many buildings and free standing homes. When the alarm goes off and the Fire Department show up, they hook into the Dry Sprinkler system and inject a fire retardant that doesn't have water in it. This type of system dramatically reduces the potential for excessive water damage. Real info from a 25yr Fire fighter veteran.
Thx for the input!
Do like Chicago does and have exterior back stairs. It's simple and it's safe.
What's funny is that I think your video, that was plastered all over Reddit, convinced Jared Polis, the governor or Colorado, to look into single staircase buildings. Great video BTW
Can you do a video on why fire escapes are bad? The only thing I can think of is that they're visually problematic. Personally I think they're beautiful but that could be because I associate them with certain memories.
One reason is they're never used except in emergencies, so they tend to fall into disrepair.
Thanks!
Most residential buildings under 3 floors in the US are already single staircase. Compartmentation works better than, you know, getting everyone out of the building. Several fires have turned deadly either because compartmentation failed or because people not affected by the fire tried to evacuate and ended up suffocating in the stairwell. But also I have seen interesting videos in Japan about "single staircase" buildings that have a second stairwell outdoors in case the first one is blocked. Double staircases really are only needed in mid- to high-rise buildings where in the worst case it is impossible to get everyone out quickly. But even then in the tallest skyscrapers elevators can shuttle evacuees down to the lobby where they can get out, while designated firefighting elevators can shuttle firefighters up to the floor of the fire.
I like seeing these more regular uploads
Near fire proof apartments/Condos etc can be easily attained. Build them outa Concrete and have all paint water based 100% as well as safely designed. Concrete one might say is not environmentally friendly at all. Newer methods of making Concrete are much more friendly to out environment.
Note: I lived in a smaller high rise near downtown Vancouver years ago mad outa Concrete and a big bonus was it was near sound proof. Shoud also point out that all fabrics/carpets etc have been made to be highly fire retardant fo decades - Not healthy but the way it is
good idea, I am a fan of cross-laminated timber (CLT) because it keeps a nice wood look.
@@joeym612 Seen nome and they do look nice
The problem is not structural failure due to combustion. It’s the suffocation from smoke.
@@alexanderchan750 If everything is either fore proof or near fire proof is what I am getting at
I live in a concrete building. I generally can't hear my neighbours. But I can still hear the little kid thumping overhead. I can hear all sorts of impact noises that travel much farther though a concrete building. And, when it's quiet, I can even hear the Canada Line trains deep under the building. I doubt I'd hear them in a wood building. Nothing is soundproof, but mass timber buildings can actually be quieter and just as fire resistant as concrete.
So exciting to see these rules being relaxed across north America!
I think the biggest concern people have about sprinklers in their single family homes is water damage. False alarms (who hasn't set off their fire alarm once accidentally when cooking?), leaking or improperly installed piping, as well as small fires that could be put out with a small fire extinguisher triggering the sprinkler system instead could all result in costly water damage without justification. This also doesn't mention the additional maintenance required of them to make sure they don't leak or go off when they shouldn't, or not go off when they should. All of these concerns aren't as important when you're in an apartment building which is either owned by a landlord, or collectively owned condos where the maintenance burden is shared.
Obviously sprinklers are much safer than not having them, especially when living spaces are touching like in apartments to prevent fire spread. I think, as you said in your video, the trade off is safety and increased cost vs potential water damage and ongoing maintenance concerns.
Sprinklers don't detect smoke but heat so they're not like a fire alarm at all actually. Unless you have a really hot but manageable fire in your room (whatever that means) it's not going to go off randomly. Also the cost of maintenance is mainly inspection to make sure nothing is corroding and they're rarely replaced because the detectors are just glass with some liquid in it (20+ years).
Edit: there are also tools which can stop them if you are that scared
Weird how you’re talking about *potential* water damage caused by sprinklers, which can also be caused by regular plumbing without sprinklers so there’s minimal additional risk, but completely ignoring how many fires are put out by fire fighters who don’t carry fire extinguishers and will instead use a fire hose and cause WAY MORE water damage than a sprinkler. Having one room with a bit of water damage is better than having a whole house with a ton of water damage.
@@B.D.F. To be clear, I'm not against sprinklers, but I can understand the concerns people might have.
Regular plumbing frequently DOES have leaking problems, but plumbing is usually installed in as few places as possible, often vertically stacked on top of each other to reduce risk of water damage (and cost of installation). The plumbing is often in the walls, reducing the potential for water damage to spread as far.
Sprinklers by their nature would be required in most if not all rooms, and would need to run through the floors / ceilings above every room, vastly increasing. If a pipe starts leaking in the ceiling, that can damage the roof to the point it collapses, or it can crack and leak through onto the contents of the room.
You also say I'm talking about potential water damage, while using the case of much rarer potential water damage from Firefighters. Pretty sure when a firefighter needs to get involved, water damage is the least of your concerns, compared to the fire.
If there's no fire and a sprinkler pipe starts leaking or bursts, or the sprinkler head somehow gets damaged, your entire room is soaked. Also the floors will likely have water damage, and if it takes a while to shutoff the water, the floor below as well.
Again, obviously sprinklers are superior to no sprinklers for fire prevention. The real question is how likely are you to have a fire versus how likely are you to have a leaky pipe.
Also @dropyourself thanks for the helpful information.
We need a special filming of the single stair fire safety song
It’s official!!! The code just got changed to ALLOW SINGLE EGRESS STAIR BUILDINGS! Up to 6 storeys are allowed, with an occupancy limit of 24 ppl per floor, limits to travel distance to stairs, mandatory automatic sprinkler systems, mandatory smoke movement management, and more! They even highlight the need to frequent and ongoing fire inspections! It’s exactly what we wanted to see!
Amazing that outdoor fire escapes actually work. I mean, wow. Who woulda thunk?
Great video as always. I think you explained it all very well. As always.
i just assumed you were doing the smoke in post until you started reacting so strongly to it, that was extremely funny to watch (though i'm sure less than fun to film)
I also can't help but wonder how our reliance on natural gas for heating and cooking contributes to fire risk. Are homes/apartments with heat pumps and induction stoves at the same level of risk as their more 'traditional' counterparts?
Interesting... I have been in a friend's apartment in Tokyo last year, it was 8 stories high, one apartment per floor, building. Only one set of stairs, at the back of the building on the righthand side. On the back, lefthand side, was the elevator, opening to the same landing than the stairs. The area outside the apartment was open to the elements. The cooking appliances were on the lefthand side about half way in the building, and there was a balcony on the righthand side on the front of the building.
So, appliances as far away as both the balconies and stairs, stairs open to the elements (no smoke can accumulate there), balconies on the main street.
It's almost a guarantee that in a serious fire everybody will be out of the building before the fire crews arrive - unless the fire hall is next door.
I’d like to know how much gas appliances contribute to fire risk. In particular, if you had induction cooktops instead of any other kind, are kitchen fires less likely?
It’s easy for some people to criticize without even substantially knowing things when they don’t have any problem paying rent or mortgage on their houses bought 20 years ago, or inherited from their parents, or now living off their pension. What would be ironic is that some of houses where they rent their basements or other rooms aren’t even legal suites so they aren’t necessarily fireproofed.
I live in an old single staircase apartment downtown and even though the building footprint is tiny, the layout of its rooms are much more comfortable than the typical wide apartment buildings that are all filled with shoeboxes of studio and 1-bedroom units.
In most jurisdictions sprinklers and pressurized common areas in multi story residential buildings are becoming the norm. As a former suppression Firefighter of 35 years service, I would add the following. Sprinklers are the best way of solving this problem, with the following provision, they must be maintained. Regular building fire inspections are a must. Fire suppression teams are a last resort. Man is absolutely correct!
good timing with the not just bikes video about the fire dept
Your ukulele playing is so much better than she-who-shall-not-be-named.
This video is Lit 🔥🔥
In the US, for at least 15 years, any new construction housing larger than a duplex has required fire sprinklers.
The reason we get these big apartment buildings is developers spend over $100,000 to get zoning approval, and it isn't much cheaper with a smaller project, so the small projects end up not being cost effective. Seattle has allowed single stairs for decades, but few have been built for this reason. If we could fix the zoning review process, we could get more smaller projects.
lmao! its so great that some people are ignorant, MORE CONTENT! Good work UL.
Wait... that video was already a year ago?! Holy crap! It seems like it was only a couple months ago to me! That's wild!
One thing this doesn't talk about: Long corridors where smoke will prevent you from leaving your unit and access any of the two stairwells are definitely worse for fire safety than the euro-block where concentric or side by side apartments open directly into a stairwell, because you have a smoke hatch above the stairwell
Great video, thanks!
Always enjoy your videos, the persentation style is perfect. Great mix of entertaining and educational, especially with the use of props.
Or we could require that no flammable materials be used in construction of housing.
Great video, love the commitment with the smoke machine! Now I wonder how many of those commenters will watch this?
And my apartment that i live in has 2 staircases but with 20 units on each floor with 1-3 people on them, i find it hard to believe that its safer than a 1 staircase micro unit with 3 units on each floor with 1-3 people living in then.
Nice follow-up video! Lot of stuff to be optimistic about nowadays!
Really glad you did this follow up 😊 I felt the original video didn't cover enough of the other methods of fire suppression. I still think requiring homes over 2 stories, maybe even just over 1 story, should have fire ladders in every room. They're cheap, not exposed to the elements and can be deployed quickly in an emergency. Many other types of disasters can trap a person in an upstairs room and having a ladder would be a huge improvement over just waiting for either rescue or the building to finish collapsing.
I love the “Missing Middle Still Missing” paper on the cork board
Great summary of the issues at hand. I'd also like to offer the argument that places with more density tend to be safer than lower-density, more car-dependent places. (See, for example, Hoboken, New Jersey's risk of accidental death versus the same risk in basically any random Texas suburb with about the same population.) When we restrict density in the name of fire safety, there are unintended negative impacts in other areas that make people less safe *overall*.
I really don't like it how when people critique a change being made they act like the country they live in is the only one that has ever existed.
Perhaps the solution is minimum stairwell allocation per number of units per floor. And/or per number of bedrooms per floor to take into account 4/3 units with 4+ people in a unit compared to just 1 or 2 in a 1/1 unit.
@6:19 TOP meme
Fire proofing the stairwell helps.
I used to work in property management in mid-rises. We made some updates to building security with permission of the fire marshall. Several people called and yelled at me because of fire risk. One person lived directly across the hall from a fire exit and didn't even know it. Those people won't survive a fire no matter how many stairwells the building has.