I've lived here all my life and I can tell you, the simple answer is that the entire waterfront is geared toward rich residents who do not want to see non residents outside the window of their multi million dollar condos. They worked hard to limit the number of boats that could anchor anywhere in the harbour, they lobby against anything that would attract more people or encourage them to come at night. It's a ghost town by design.
Ding ding ding. This is the true answer. Like basically everything wrong in the world today, the problem with the waterfront in Vancouver is rich people.
The rich get what they want. Where is it different ? btw : Terry Hui , Mr Concord-Pacific, owns the penthouse in that (to me) unattractive , stunted "tower featured mid-screen @ 08.49 minutes. Just another Erickson blunder . So accustomed to getting-what-he-wants his fellow owners had to sue for access to the common amenities in their own building. Of course we shouldn't forget that by far largest share of (metro) Vancouver land is still zoned single-family. On any given "pleasant weather" weekend the seawall, like it or not, is flooded with folk who decidedly are not westenders. Nearby residents are more prominently noticeable when inclement weather keeps the three zoners home so let's cut that "backyard-owners" NIMBY claim. Vancouver "hiding" from its raison d'etre : We live in a port city.
I don't understand why the "rich" spend thousands of dollars to visit overseas destinations to experience these lively, cultural places while at the same time fighting against having anything like that in their city. No to mention, vacancy tax nonwithstanding, I rarely see lights on in these bottom-floor waterfront residences anyway.
It sounds like the problem isn’t necessarily the parks and walkway, but instead the area next to it being filled with *only* luxury condos. If the surrounding buildings were a mix of homes, shops, restaurants, businesses, concert venues, etc., then a quiet, simple park and path next to those things would be a nice contrast.
I can see the developers want to gentrify the waterfront in Vancouver to bring up the price of condos but they totally missed the point and the place doesn't look vibrant and luxurious at all. I've been to a waterfront in Hong Kong called Gold Coast and they have a Mediterranean style plaza with luxury diners, arts & craft market and a luxury hotel. The plaza always hold free cultural events to ensure both tourists and the local community can enjoy the waterfront. And the condos do give out the sense of luxury by itself as a prestigious private school is located nearby as well.
Pretty much. If there were any businesses or private homes which could transition into running a business those property values would climb to the moon almost instantly. The opposite is true for luxury condos. And it's not exclusive to condos, pretty much every location with more wealth than the medium is like this. What I find particularly annoying is that this come at the expense of vast majority of tax payers within the city as it is extremely rare for an entire city or town to be a home for only the rich. Vancouver could expand it's local economy through more small businesses and things to do in general to generate more wealth for the average resident OR they could bend over to the few millionaires and corporations who pay close to nothing(if at all) in taxes anyway.
There _is_ a mix of homes, shops, restaurants, businesses, concert venues, etc. - this fellow misrepresents the situation. Look at the segment in Coal Harbour, and then in English Bay, and then in Yaletown (all around), then in Olympic Village, and around Granville Island, There are Restaurants, Brew Pubs, Theatres all along the way...
I used to landscape at several buildings on Vancouver's waterfront including the infamous "Erickson". For the Erickson I serviced the balcony flower beds for each apartment. I was shocked by how many of the apartments laid totally empty (30%), while some had furniture but obviously no one at home for several months (50%). If all the apartments around the waterfront were actually full with living attendees then I think the sea wall would be much buiser.
Yup that's Vancouver. Build lots of condos but sell them all to foreigners and speculators. Drive up the price for locals. And bring in more immigrants for cheap labour and create even more demand for housing and services but invest in nothing to handle it. Good job Canadian elites. You got rich but downgraded the standard of living for all us working schmucks.
Growing up in the '70's and '80's, Stanley Park was a vibrant exciting place with all sorts of activities in the park and at the beaches. The seawater pools were packed, the games areas were busy, people picnicked and walked the trails. Every beach was fun, every park was fun across the whole Lower Mainland. The transition to Nofuncouver started after Expo and has gotten worse throughout the years.
I bounce in and out of Halifax for work semi-regularly, and its harbourwalk is definitely one of my favourite parts of the city. It may only be a fraction the size of Vancouver's waterfront, but it's certainly a vibrant place that also makes for a nice lunchtime walk to stretch your legs. Definitely a highlight of that city's downtown (although more improvements to the pedestrian/transit experience around Water Street are desperately needed to better integrate it).
They are currently reconstructing the cogs well interchange and planning new water street bike/bus infrastructure ! To make it more pedestrian friendly as well
Vancouver's Park Board : No restaurants on the Waterfront, they destroy nature and beaches. Also Vancouver's Park Board : No cycling roads in Stanley Park, they destroy car traffic to restaurants.
Wait until they decide to put railings along all the seawalls 'for safety reasons'. Visit Nanaimo's Newcastle Island park to see how much nicer Stanley Park would be without the shoreline destorying seawall.
They didn’t ban cycling in Stanley, they’re going to remove the dedicated bike lane (which, in my opinion only made cycling dangerous as people disregard signs and ride wrong direction). We will continue riding there and hopefully the police do their job and enforce the speed limit which the majority of the drivers don’t respect
Okay Vancouver folks. Like it or not, tourism to Vancouver generates annually $7.2 billion. You cannot ignore this. I happen to be a tourist coach / bus driver and we give tours throughout Vancouver and Stanley park. It’s next to impossible to drive a bus and navigate along the tree line there, with the cycle path pylons in the middle of the road. We need a little more space in turns. We drive slower than bicycle speeds, thus bicycles passing us, which is fine. Most cyclists use the seawall lane anyway, over the Stanley designated lanes. It will make much more sense to co-exist on the road. We are safe / professional drivers. We want to represent Vancouver the best as we can to the international community. So, please have patience with us drivers as we turn and navigate 50 ft. of glass & steel through tight corners. ✌🏼😘
From what i see in this topic Vancouver's recipe for city planning is: 1. respect the residents need for light and noise pollution free environment. 2. don't cave to businesses and monopolize a public space for profit. 3. listen to the local community and build around their needs. From what i see in this video Vancouver is a home while New York, Halifax and Bangkok are tourist destinations. We shouldn't talk about public spaces in terms of their "Real state value" or "Commercial value". Normal adults don't need "Attractions" all the time we are not children we have "attractions" in the city center, we need tranquility and nature to contemplate our sheer existence (we need Existentialist park)
You highlighted an interesting point about the Halifax waterfront that few people mention. The Halifax waterfront has two distinct aspects about it that are both great. In the daytime is is a bustling family and tourist friendly district with tons of diverse activities and food options. At night the waterfront transforms into a completely difference experience with lots of fun, patio experiences and events going on (more in summer obviously). The transformation of the Halifax waterfront over the last 30 years has been amazing.
I've been saying that False Creek is basically a high-ish density suburb. It's centrally planned with separated uses and poor connectivity with the rest of the city. The only attraction in many areas is water and grass. I think it's a remnant of the 80s, when Vancouverism had to attract suburban office workers Downtown in lieu of building and urban freeway. So they catered to those suburban tastes. But times have changed. I was at the restaurant area during the summer, and it was lively with plenty of people there listening to music and playing volleyball. It was really nice and crowded. I think going forward, we can't just keep replicating this development model. We have to be able to build commercial streets with mixed use aparmtment buildings. And we can't rely in centrally planning every detail.
NEFC was intended to fix some of these issues, but the demolition of the Viaducts looks like it’s in jeapordy, and the entire plan will have to be scrapped and redone due to cost constraints. Coal Harbour has some inter-connectivity with community services and restaurants with its seawall, but still pretty limited-especially since 2 lots designated for restaurants are so restrictive that no one wants to build on them. Olympic Village is better too, though it’s still designed to get people deeper into the village than having outside frontage onto the seawall. South False Creek was scrapped because basically none of the residents wanted to lose their suburban homes next to the Waterfront. Basically, you can see a trend in earlier developments being more ‘boring’, and later ones being more ‘commercial’. This problem is being solved, slowly. Though, Vancouver still has the problem of having too many useless small parks in its developments, rather than a few bigger parks that can become hubs for communities.
You have been banned from the waterfront and you probably need to own a condo just to use it fuck man what a craphole I lived in northvan for 8 months I loved it but 750 000 for 1970 townhouse but the rest of van sucks
@@Apollo55_ Most native born people are looking to leave, we are priced out of the housing market, high cost of living makes most people live a little above the poverty line at best.
@@ShomoGoldburgler So basically anywhere is better is what I'm picking up? How do people make money to survive? I know there has to be some absolutely horrible jobs some have to do just to scrape by. Edit (Just read your username, are you talking about Canada? If so forget about the last part with the jobs lol)
@@Apollo55_There are not many countries that you can immigrate to with knowing only English, so yeah. Is Canada worse than US/UK right now though? That’s cool to have a Canadian Passport that allows you to go back to your country anytime you want. Most immigrants are going slowly but steadily to their final goal. Staying in different places that might be better than the other ones for that particular time won’t get them a New passport. I’ve been to Flemish part of the Belgium for 3 month, everyone knows English very good, but almost every job require Dutch, you get what I’m saying?
This is what we need in Hilo, Hawaii--where the waterfront was once a gorgeous beach that was paved over to build a highway, and a fence blocks off downtown Hilo from the water. Redeveloping that highway into beach restoration with trees + much bigger walking/biking path would be a dream.
Oh- I'm from Hawaii as well Oahu. I actually commented that this Vancouver waterfront sounds great to me. Hilo is far more relaxed than Oahu (I actually grew up in Hilo before moving for job). Like I just despise Waikiki although I really enjoy Ala Moana beach park. If the bayfront could be built up to be like Ala Moana beach park I think that would be great. But some of that restraint on building actual infostructure in the bayfront area is probably because of the history of the place getting leveled by Tsunami and more recently flood damage as the soccer fields become lakes.
I agree, when visiting Hilo, I could not believe how boring it was, even compared to Kona. Your weather is far worse so you need it even more! (Yes, I know a Tsunami destroyed the waterfront but still).
So glad you mentioned Halifax. The waterfront has always been an attraction, and a favourite place of mine, but the city has improved it even more recently.
Interesting take! As someone who loved visiting Vancouver while living in Seattle though, I'd still take Vancouver's boring waterfront over its southern neighbor, Seattle's any day. It's industrial with lots of car traffic on the west, and in the east there's mostly mansions with private docks that block the lakefront entirely. Vancouver's waterfront is really a tremendous public space, even if it could be made more interesting/lively.
I've lived in Seattle and Vancouver, In Seattle it's nothing for a stranger to walk up start a conversation and the both of you grab a coffee. In Vancouver it's nothing to think you're going to go out on a pleasant walk with your kid and have several bicyclist A-holes shout obsenities because you're not walking in a designated lane. And o yea, forget about any strangers starting a conversation or grabbing a coffee for that matter. Seattle has many problems but socialization isn't one of them. (No, Canadian's aren't nice or friendly.)
a public green waterfront is appreciated and not being filled with privatization is a good problem to have . how to make it friendlier for social interaction is a good problem to have . Maybe the bigger issue is the neighborhoods around the parks being nothing but multi millionaires real estate investors and no regular families able to live there ? The areas I have been to that had cafes and restaurants businesses close the park like waterfront trail seemed nice 👍 .
@Khameleon I notice Canadians do not have a limit on how far they will dive into your personal business, but the conversation runs cold when you asked them (a Canadian) the most basic thing. Perhaps a bunch of self righteous know it alls.
Dude, my girlfriend saw you in the train last holiday season. She said you're the first celebrity she's seen since we moved to BC last year -- we watched a lot of your videos prior to moving here. Great content + production!
lol it was probably another Asian. There are a few around hongcouver. Disclaimer: Lets see how many woke nimbys this post attracts that claim one thing yet vote another way. nothing worse than fake hypocrites
This video perfectly illustrates the concepts that Jane Jacobs made in her book. Building a park just to have a park, with no understanding of the surrounding land uses will get you this disjointed style park, where it's virtually abandoned at certain times of the day. With only mid density residential nearby (yes, I know those look like high density apartments, but at that price point there are probably only a few families living in each one), the expected visitors to the parks are limited to people coming and going in the morning and evening. If you had some offices and commercial properties, you could increase the amount of people who visit at any time of day. Hopefully Vancouver will right this wrong; it's not okay that a publicly built park, subsidized by all citizens, is subject to the whims of the wealthy landowners nearby. There needs to be a diversity of land uses everywhere, even if the wealthy dislike it.
It’s a place to escape the city, I actually really like it. One minute you are in the hustle and bustle of the city and then the next minute you are walking in forested areas with water sounds, it’s peaceful and relaxing.
I think you could have easily compared the waterfront to the Victoria waterfront nearby. We have plenty of walking trails, but we also have a bustling waterfront near downtown and other attractions scattered around like dog parks, the breakwater, etc. It's not boring because there is variety, but there's not shortage of distance if you want to go for a jog.
Gotta say that Victoria has fantastic trails. World class in fact. We spent 3 winter months in 2019 and 2020 as Snowbirds. Our main form of entertainment was going for long walks. So enjoyable. Never boring. I miss u Victoria.
I think Victoria's waterfront has swung too far to the opposite side of the pendulum and is a little too commercialized/touristy for my liking. It would be nice if there were restaurants etc down there that charged normal prices, not just what they think Americans will pay :P
It's true, Halifax has done a surprisingly good job of redeveloping their waterfront in the last couple decades. It wouldn't be a bad idea to develop sections of water front in Vancouver in a similar style. Certainly it doesn't need to be the whole thing, or even a majority, but it could be better. Some of my favourite places on the waterfront are where it interfaces with shops (Olympic village/Yale Town/Convention Centre).
@@fraslex I'm from Halifax and have been living in Vancouver for the last 10 years. I've literally heard nothing but positive comments about the maritimes from other Canadians.
I've lived in both cities as well. I don't really like Halifax's waterfront tho and I found many locals don't particularly like it much either. Its out of the way, with little (and pricy) parking and bad transit, its very touristy, pricey, little in public services like washrooms or rest areas, especially when its busy. It can smell bad and has a knack for being cold and windy even when its nice in other parts of town. Its also an island from other destinations around the city being surrounded by mostly office buildings and a uphill walk. Outside of taking the ferry or living/working down there, few locals visit the waterfront much at all in my experience. The exception being special events like Buskers and Jazzfest which can being entertaining and fun enough to draw people down there.
@@ieatstheinternet I grew up in Halifax, and people loved it down there, including the locals. One of the most popular bars in town is down there. And it's 10 times better now than it ever was. I'm not sure who you were talking to, but it certainly wasn't my experience in my first 30 years of life.
@@ieatstheinternet I don't agree with that assessment at all. Hard to classify the waterfront as out of the way when it is the number one destination in Halifax. Everything not on or near the waterfront it out of the way. It rarely smells and and certainly smells less often than other downtowns. The downtown and the waterfront are thriving entertainment districts. There are nearby office towers but they are a backdrop compared to the bustling entertainment areas. The only people who don't like the waterfront are people who prefer to stay on their sofas or in their cars.
I live in Halifax and the waterfront is the place to be, arguably year round. It gets sort of dead in the winter, but in the summer it’s a gem! Restaurants, pop up cafes, souvenir shops, festivals, people docked on the boats and just vibing, it’s quite a scenery that also brings tons of money to the city and community. Visited Vancouver last fall and absolutely loved it, but I’m sure it could implement and improve on things that Halifax is doing. Thanks for your work on this video!
Great subject. Im torn though. Some parts should remain quiet while others almost need to be woken up. I lived there for 4 years and was an avid cyclist. I biked that entire sea wall several times a week and appreciated how I could keep a pace because most people were trying to get some exercise too. But at the same time it was a very lonely ride. There were definitely a couple locations along it and across the water, at Lonsdale Quay and the ferry inlet, that could have more social experiences. They felt disturbingly abandoned or forgotten. I was glad to see what was done with Lonsdale Quay went I went back last. A better use of that post industrial space. Some ecologically significant areas of Greater Vancouver became so developed and disturbed by tourists they were ruined from what they used to be back during my childhood visits (I won’t say because I don’t want them to get even worse). But the sea wall, other than in Stanley Park, is already in a highly urban setting and so either the useless grass patches could be converted to some better bioengineered spaces to buffer more city runoff and/or be host to more festivals/music/art in the park. The vibe can still be laid back if done well. Then future cyclists could stop and take a break, maybe make a new friend, or actually meet the love of their life in real life again. Haha. Just aim for connection I think. That’s what it’s missing.
There is no reason the sea wall can't be mixture of both commercial/public space and an escape to nature. I for one would love to see large portions of it, especially those directly connected to the urban fabric already, developed into large public plazas full of small businesses, while retaining much of the nature in other areas such as around Stanley Park.
Absolutely!! The seawall in Stanley Park should of course remain a place to connect with nature, but those lo-o-o-ng stretches of grubby grass and nothing else *aren't "nature"*, by any meaningful definition. This is public space; it belongs to all of us. Let's get some life and community happening.
I have only visited Vancouver as a tourist, however isn't the seawall exactly that already? If parts of the seawall are too peaceful and "dead" for your liking, just walk or ride your bike a few more minutes and you'll have some cafe or whatever. There's literally Granville island along the seawall, also Stanley Park/surrounding area has everything this video is advocating for and more. Building out a random cafe, restaurant, shop, or whatever every square meter of the seawall would ruin it. Sure there's a few spots where some smart additions could be made, but perhaps it's pretty darn good the way it is?
@@damonrasmussen8836 It would be tightly controlled... obviously... You wouldn't even want like a small ice-cream shack? Seriously? Are you a lizard person? I think you might be a lizard person
I disagree with many of your points in this video. I also find you purposely chose clips that reflect moody and depressed impression of the seawall, which is disingenuous. I use the seawall all the times and it's vibrant and full of life. I love that the seawall is not crazy busy. I go to the seawall and the park to get away from the stress and noise of the city. It's a retreat that I find is increasingly important as Vancouver grows and increasing in density. There are parts of the seawall that's vibrant and more developed like Olympic Village, Yaletown, Coal Harbour, and English Bay for those who prefer a more vibrant experience. It's IMPORTANT to preserve the parts that have NOT been developed, which is what makes the seawall unique and wonderful in the first place. We don't have to built on every inch of land and sea just because we can. There's real value in preserving the natural environment, and what's left of it. The seawall is PUBLIC and it's open to everyone regardless of your economic and social status. Developments like Cactus Club on English Bay is not for the people; it's for corporate profits and caters to people who can afford the premium menu. I sound like those white people that you mock (timestamp 4:20) who oppose the Kits Beach development - I have never eaten at that restaurant. Commercializing the seawall will only create barrier to the general public.
What you propose at 2:00 is good in small doses but what made Vancouver great is all the quiet green spaces. They're getting eroded every day by those disgusting condos. You are right though that, other than Granville island, there aren't enough points of busy-ness, but the plan is to make False Creek/Science World that busy area. Don't destroy the rest of it with overly loud restaurants and crowded streets. Vancouver should not become New York or one of those other disgusting "metropolises". Even after getting pushed out by the high prices, I dislike that Vancouver is being pushed to transform into the same as every other big city when it keeps getting ranked as a top city with it's original spirit. The more that spirit is crushed the worse it will become, strangled by popularity.
Props to Vancouver for at least keeping its waterfront open and accessible. Down here in Seattle they tore down the 1950s double-decker Alaskan Way Viaduct downtown and are mostly replacing it with... a 6-lane surface road speedway. But, hey, we've got a Ferris wheel! I love your Seawall. But not on a gray, rainy, winter day. Nice pants.
Amazing vid man, see this same problem occurring in many greenways/pedestrian zones/waterfronts etc where instead of creating a vibrant, multituse place, you often end up with an empty, boring space. It’s no wonder such places end up desolate in some spots when they’re set up for failure to begin with. More effort has to be put into making such places interesting and enjoyable for people to spend time in.
This is actually crazy that Vancouver has no lights in their walking path at night. Unlike them, Toronto is transforming its waterfront and it's actually the largest redevelopment in North America right now.
Its because they don't want anyone down there. The cops come down every day at 11 and drive up and down the beach with their lights on and kick everyone out because the beach "closes" how can you close a beach.
@@samwalsh205 That's weird and dumb. Toronto on the other hand has restaurants and bars by the beach. I guess Vancouver really does live up to its name as being the "no fun city"
I’m guessing it would be a hazard as it is clearly not very populated, so anyone venturing down there at night would be at substantial risk of being accosted.
This is a great concept. I live in Auckland, NZ, and there are two main parts to the waterfront in the CBD. One part has businesses which thrive from about 9am to 2am, there's a constant bustle (especially in summer), and people will go down just to wander around and look at the boats honestly. However, maybe a km away is a walking path which goes along the seaside between the CBD and the harbour bridge, which, while used, is never ever as busy as the waterfront where the museums and cafes and other businesses are.
Very interesting video as usual. Please make more. I think the boring use of the Waterfront is more a cultural thing in Canada. I realize it more after spending last month in Mexico. Everything was feeling more alive there. In Canada we don't have the same sense of community, it's more of a selfish place and it reflect in many aspects of our country. The Waterfront if built around that selfishness concept.
canada is also obsessed with having very strict control of businesses of any kind. anything that sets up can't just do it willy nilly like in mexico (I assume mexico has rules about it but they have to be less strict), like a food stand needs a business license, a permanent location to produce food, and tons of stuff that makes where they can be and how expensive they are to set up a huge issue.
I'm a big fan of the Brooklyn waterfront, as I think it does a good job of incorporating activities and restaurants while still letting you talk a quiet walk or bike ride in a city where that's often hard to find.
The problem is not the waterfront itself, its the lack of such places in the exciting areas. Imaging if you just through the business district/downtown with a walking path like this, it'll be full of life and exciting, and actually used to move people to where they need to go.
Totally agree, if Granville wasn't a disaster and instead were cleaned up with pedestrian only streets and public seating throughout, you'd have the bustling community life some folks are looking for.
no, the problem is the failure of bringing exciting places along the entire length of the seawall. talk about completely missing the point of the video!
A city could either bring businesses, nightlife, food, music to a place people are already walking and biking and sitting - or bring walking and cycling and seating areas to a street that already has food, music and nightlife. It's an interesting idea, either way would work but in Vancouver while there is only a 5% chance of bringing more fun, food, festivals to our waterfront there is a 0% chance they'd ever close a street like Davie to car traffic and make it exclusively pedestrian.
Nah there are enough restaurants by the water if you want to go, plenty by the water or 1 -3 blocks in, tons of them. I don't want to turn the waterfront into Las Vegas nightlife. And I don't want to turn the few waterfront parks we have left into more condo towers for one off huge profits by a developer before they move onto the next one.
Just found this video after a long walk along Chicago's lakefront, which I think is an interesting case. It's also not very commercial, and was designed in the same 19th century return to nature spirit you discuss, but is much more bustling than it apppears the Vancouver waterfront is. It only has a few businesses scattered over it's significant mileage, but it has several swimmable beaches (including dog beaces), golf courses, tennis courts, baseball fields, a big hill where kids can sled in the winter, large marinas, little nature paths / gardens that diverage from the main trail, plenty of places to sit, and (unlike Vancouver) volleyball courts. It also, crucially, has absolutely massive parks behind the trail with lots of places to park and public bathrooms. In summer, whole familes will bring coolers and grills out there and camp all day. People will put up tents and hold big parties. I went to a baby shower out there a few years ago, it was a good time. You don't necessarily need a ton of commerical space to have a good time. But you DO need to give people ways to be comfortable and actual things to do. And it seems like Vancouver's Seawall designers failed to do that!
I see a new About Here video, I upvote immediately. Excellent commentary - it's so interesting to see how often things come down to land use, and what values those land use decisions reinforce year after year. Metro Vancouver seems particularly focused on decisions that inhibit vibrant community spaces, like most North American cities.
In Calgary, we have some great multiuse pathways. The primary ones go through Fish Creek Park, follow the Elbow and Bow Rivers, or loop around the reservoir. But they have this similar issue you’re talking about. There’s not much to do around them. They’re great for exercise, seeing nature, and active transport (depending where you’re going). But they’re also kinda placeless. I love these parks, and don’t think we should just add a bunch of shops, but it would be nice to cycleways and pedestrian paths with a little something of interest. Thanks for giving me something interesting to think about today!
go through fish creek at night in the summer on your bike, watch rabbits part like the red sea. no joke its crazy. thats about the most interesting thing that I have ever experienced in fish creek. kind of a boring walk zone otherwise.
Prince's island park has a few cafes and the enmax stage which are really nice additions. Hopefully eau claire market is redeveloped into something that has a community focus in mind.
@@carbonblack6880 It’s true, we’ve got a few cool things downtown! Really hopeful about the Eau Claire changes. I’m also interested in how we might liven up the pathways throughout the rest of the city.
I live in the states, where almost all beautiful waterfront places have been exploited for capitalistic ventures like you suggest should happen with the Vancouver waterfront in this video. Take it from me, it was an absolute pleasure to spend the day walking and biking the seawall path & Stanley Park yesterday...something that felt uniquely Vancouver in contrast to the MANY coastal metro areas in the states I'm familiar with. You've got something very special there please don't spoil it. Just because you can put a restaurant or beer bar somewhere doesn't mean you should.
The waterfront walkway that I’m more familiar with is Nanaimo’s, which is a particularly good one (despite the city’s bad reputation, it has some excellent features). There’s a floating restaurant, lots of small store fronts including places to get an ice cream etc, and an excellent city park with basketball courts, water park, food truck area, huge playground, dock for fishing, swimming area and on and on. There are always lots of people using the park and walkway. It also has a small section that is boring and in close proximity to high rise condos which seems like an extension of the building’s property. I don’t know… if people don’t want the sights and sounds of a city around them, maybe they shouldn’t live in a city?
Would be lovely indeed ! Enlever le stationnement derrière le quai de l'horloge et avoir des commerces et plus d'activités la bas serait aussi un gros plus !
I like being able to see grass and trees, see the waves onto the beaches and rocks. In a dense city, it’s nice to be able to get into green space so nearby. There’s no lighting after night to discourage people from being there after dark. Vancouver has a real problem with addicts and mentally unwell people. Safer to encourage people to avoid park land in downtown Vancouver. Thanks for the video.
When I was in Vancouver as a tourist in 2022, I really was amazed by the fact that such a major city had calm and nature oriented spaces like the seawall and the adjacent parks for people to take a break from the busy streets. Maybe the seawall itself could use a handful of restaurants, cafes and such, but I think it should be stay as it is for the most part (not that I have any say in that matter as a non-Canadian)
Love your channel, you hit the nail on the head why we left Vancouver for Europe in 2008. That being said, I appreciate the boring-ness of the seawall. I was a kits, then westend, renter from 1996-2008 who was grateful for the lack of shops along the seawall, for exact reasons described by Olmstead. I could forget my stressful job and escape my small apartment (650 sqft 1 bdrm with no outdoor space, which I shared with my partner), without having to cross town to Pacific Spirit or the North Shore. Because even in the late 90s and early 2000s, on the weekend afternoons the area around Kits beach was too congested to do anything but walk very slowly. Forget jogging, nevermind biking. Nowadays, I've found Kits to be a lot quieter, verging on moribund (I assume due to an older, wealthier population) so perhaps these bottlenecks are not as much of a problem. I now live in Paris and my closest "green" space is along the Seine, which has seen its banks gradually converted from arterial to urban walkway and "park" in the past 12 years. It has been life-changing! On the right bank walkway there is a smattering of cafes and bars, and it is indeed crazy on weekend afternoons in nice weather (of course, it sure beats car traffic). There are much fewer bars on the left bank, and these are closer to the Eiffel Tower end of the city. This section is crazy any afternoon in nice weather due to tourist concentration. Since here too I'm living in a 1 bdrm without outdoor space that I share with a partner (the same one :)) I remain very grateful that the stretch of Seine nearest our apartment is almost completely devoid of cafe-bars. We already have 4 restaurants on the *100m* of street outside my front door; in other words, there's plenty of life at hand already. And when you walk a bit westwards to buy groceries, it gets busier still especially when tourist season kicks up. Most residents here flee to family or 2nd homes outside the city on weekends and vacation. But as immigrants we have neither family nor 2nd home to flee to. My point is, it isn't only wealthy, aged luxury home-owners who are NIMBYs. We have been as average-income, very active 30-, 40-, and now 50-something modest apartment renters!
A walking path by the ocean isn't a cookie cutter idea, it is what you would be doing there if there wasn't a path anyway really. People like to walk on the beach and the shoreline, and this is accessible to more people too. I agree it should be an escape from the city, it should be a respite. There is walking along the shore, and there is walking along shops and restaurants, and they don't do the same thing for people's mental health. I prefer the respite from the city, no shops or cafes. Also, the parking issue, if the shore were to become a "destination" with shops and restaurants. I know this channel think everyone should take the transit and rides bikes, but Van is a Big city and that's just not how it works. I think it's perfect the way it is, there is a nice mix of paths, parks and a few destinations.
Good video. I have to say that there is already commercialization along parts of the seawall. There are numerous restaurants and many shops within a block or two. Many people in Vancouver don’t realize that there used to be a long pier with a bandstand in English Bay right in front of the Sylvia Hotel. It was completed around 1908 and you can still see the piles of rocks where it was at low tide. I think it would be a great idea to rebuild it because English Bay is the most accessible and historic beaches in the city. Most of the rest of the seawall should be left pretty much as is. If you’re bored just walk into the downtown core and fill your boots!
With how massive the seawall is, there is zero excuse for at least a couple short stints become commercialized. You CAN have both. It doesn't need to be a dichotomy.
The struggle is always that no one want to agree to have “their” part commercialized. Personally I like living right across from a coffee shop and with lots of restaurants around, the foot traffic makes me feel safer being out at night. Yet if I want to be out when it’s quiet usually all that takes is being out before ~11 on a weekend (easy with a dog getting you up anyway). But clearly the people in those condos (or at least the loud ones) don’t think that way.
Yes but who's willing to pay the enormous cost and taxes associated with a business at on or near the sea wall and it would be subject to codes that would make it unappealing and expensive. Did I mention the cost?? You would end up with a chain establishment that people want to get away from in the first place Some weather factors at play but well thought out lighting would enhance it for sure.
So it seems that his critique basically amounts to the Vancouver waterfront not providing enough profit-making opportunities for the city's capitalists. Simply having open public areas that people can freely use without having to pay for anything amounts to "wasted space" among the city's "prime real estate". If the parks seem underutilised I think it might have more to do with that area's culture than the parks themselves. In Montreal for example, every park in the city is bustling with human activity because the city's neighbourhoods have much more of a communal nature where public spaces are seen as collective property that exists for everyone's use, compared to other cities in Canada where people prefer to keep to themselves inside their own private yards and properties, and consider public spaces as a more decorative thing that are primarily valued for their effect on surrounding property values. And thus public activity (like a group of friends having an after-work beer or a bunch kids playing loudly) are discouraged for their effect on the aesthetics of public spaces.
Every time you make a video it's an absolute treat! Keep up the good work. As an urban planning student in WA State and close to Vancouver BC, I always learn so much and find these videos so interesting. I can't wait to visit the city soon!
Interesting - I spent 10 years in Chicago and I've seen parts of the lakefront that were both bustling and desolate. I would say that a mix of the two is nice to have! It's easy to underestimate the importance of finding outdoor space to be alone in a large city. That being said - Vancouver's waterfront is def leaning towards desolate. That restaurant around 4:00 is a perfect example of a much-needed cultural waypoint, NIMBYS be damned. Edit: Go figure - the rest of the video covers the "escape" part. I honestly think both are important.
Strong agree. I think it's important to not confuse a "place" like Granville Island, or the Olympic Village with an "artery" like the seawall walk/bike/roll path. I have a lot of use for both things. I can't run all the time. When I stop it's nice to sit down and have a bite or something to drink, but when I want to move, I don't really enjoy running through a restaurant patio!
It's REALLY easy to create that sense of quiet space - just don't have a road or parking nearby. Most people will not walk more than 50 feet from their car. Even now all along the Seawall you have busy spots and super quiet spots but this could be way better curated by drawing people into hot spots where there are food trucks and cafes and seating and then quiet zones with no amenities and no parking, just trees and shoreline.
@@fallenshallrise For sure! That's kind of what I was going for. Chicago does a pretty good job of this and it definitely has some longer stretches without amenities that I valued as a distance longboarder when I used to live there. It also has big clusters of lakefront that have almost nonstop amenities, particularly places like Montrose Beach and Grant Park. I think the level of granularity between amenity and less-amenity zones should probably scale inversely with the population density.
I agree a mix is important. And you're right in chicago you can find parts of the lake front to be alone in if you want. Or be surrounded be tons of people. It's all about where you want to go.
Welcome back. We've missed you. The Sea Wall has become the Sea Yawn and Queue. I don't want this iconic walk to simply become Robson on the Water. Lisbon has a great mix of uses on its 8 km waterfront walk. One may walk forever along the waterfront at Alicante. Even the Cornich in Abu Dhabi offers more today.
As a Vancouver local who busked, I will say thank you for this well researched video. I have come up against some of these issues trying to play music at the beach and various parks in Vancouver. I hope that one day there can be "fun zones".
@@CampingforCool41 You can get a plastic green and beautiful lawn, but that's not natural. Nature is ugly sometimes, naturally. May the love and the peace of Jesus be with us.
Just saw this on reddit and then spent the rest of the morning watching the rest of your videos. Amazing work! I only hope more people will become interested and informed about urban development in our city. Can you do one about bike infrastructure maybe (HUB, etc.)?
I lived in Vancouver right by the waterfront for two years while at the moment I live in Toronto which has a much more lively waterfront. I always thought the quiet nature of Vancouver's waterfront was a reflection of Vancouver's more sleepy culture in general. It's a place on the rim of the Pacific, at the very edge of the continent, separate by mountains from the rest of the country and by an ocean from the rest of the world. You can feel it in the atmosphere between the two cities. Toronto is always on the go, Vancouver is laid back. Toronto is full of drunken partygoers, Vancouver is full of stoners. To give a good example of this, when I was living in Kitsilano I used to go to smoke joints in the back alley late at night and I would marvel at how absolutely silent it would be. Toronto is never like that, no matter where you are or what time it is you're always hearing cars moving in the distance. In Vancouver I could go for long walks at night just to think about things and have the benefit of silence to do it. Toronto's much more distracting even in the quietest of places, you can really feel like your trapped in unrban sprawl. Whereas in Vancouver, it almost feels like a rural area which just so happens to have 2 million people living there. I can see what you mean by Vancouver having a loneliness problem, but I think the trade-off may be worth it if the seawall reflects Vancouver's unique culture, which I think it does. I see the benefits of both Toronto and Vancouver's way of doing things, but personally I found Vancouver fit my personality more.
This whole video could be literally boiled down to ''Extroverts hate that there's a city brimming with introverts and architecture that is building for them, instead for the raging party goers.". An oversimplification for sure, but it gets the gist of it. Similarly how there's tons of articles and guides like ''Ten tips to be less introverted and open up" while there are none being tilted "Ten ways you can shut the f*ck up for once".
Exactly. Vancouver parks are polluted with the smell of weed. Fortunately, there are better getaways like casinos where smoking is banned. May the love and the peace of Jesus be with us.
i love the seawall.. I have lived and visited many parts of the globe where the water front is totally inaccessible to the regular folk---it is so hard to access. I love how the seawalls create public space next to the ocean that is super accessible. I think we do need that nature hit even in Vancouver. I like how there are mini pockets of commerce (Olympic village, yaletown, gastown ) if you want to veer off and have some commerce. I like that I can go there and nap, meditate, stretch, it is that quiet. I also have have an injury which makes sitting difficult so I walk a ton--and being on the seawall is so much better for my nervous system than around cars and on city streets. I really love it. I like how folks in wheelchairs and elders can access it. I'm glad for the break from commerce and I often walk with friends. I love the voice clips and the yoga pants.great video and history of the city!
Parks continue to be created in Vancouver in part to help reduce the heat island effect. Also, consider that a public walking path is much better than private waterfront ownership, which is quite common all over the world. We are fortunate in Vancouver that the seawall was built well before property values soared.
Parks in Vancouver only exist so developers can buy land and get away with paying zero taxes until such time as they decide to replace it with a condo.
My graduation thesis at Uni was about reclaiming urban waterfronts in another country. The cases that I analyzed in European countries had many activities and public buildings connected to water. I suggested a project that did the same defending it would bring life into what I called "thematic promenades", such as museums, libraries, cultural centers, playgrounds, soccer fields, restaurants, squares, forums, plazas, etc. When I lived in Vancouver, I did wonder why all I could do by the sea was walk, pretty much. But I did enjoy it. Nice video as usual, content, and production. Thank you!
You think lack of restaurants render the waterfront a ghost town after dark? If you and a friend are sitting quietly on the beach after 10 pm, police will come and drive you off, under threat of arrest.
really solid video! I appreciate you posing the question. I think it's super important that we consider these questions and don't just do the safe thing, but actually evaluate based on the context and the social need.
So you’re not a runner then? I went away and had a nice long uninterrupted think about this video. In my favourite place to be alone with my thoughts, the seawall. I believe it's valid to see ways that the seawall could be improved, but I think this video glosses over a lot of things the seawall does offer. It's accessible to a wide range of users. You can walk, run, ride (slowly please), wheel, push a stoller, roller blade etc. it's free. It's easy to get to. It has decent connectivity to sky train and Canada line, and with Sea bus it's actually a resource for people from all the suburbs served by Metro Van mass transit. So I think could be better, and I think it might be a little over-hyped, but even as it is, it's pretty good!
Milwaukee, where I live, has two waterfronts, ones a riverfront and the others a lakefront. The riverfront is pretty commercial with some restaurants being there most of em are closed and the lakefront is a park like you've described. The only difference is there is a huge gap, a road and a hill, between housing and the lake making it so there are some lake side attractions, restaurants, a beach and stuff. I only wish there were more there cause everything outside the beach is pretty barren but at the same time I like walking down by the marina and enjoy the quietness and darkness at night. I just hope one day Milwaukee is as cool as you've made Vancouver out to be in your videos! Now you know a little bit about Milwaukee!! Hope anyone reading this visits the city if you're ever in the Midwest!
Ahem - you could have compared Vancouver's seawall to the spirit trail in North Van - which is becoming very vibrant with concert space, summer beer gardens, a night market and even an ice rink. Aside from that quibble - thanks for an informative and thought provoking piece.
I live here in Vancouver and I've never heard of that "trail". Last time I tried to ride over there it was mostly painted bike lanes on main roads with a ton of traffic with some detours on multi-use paths. Most of that coast line is blocked by private owners, business and industry so I don't think a seawall is ever going to be possible over there. Maybe I should give it another shot.
dude i just found your channel, i am not from Vancouver and was not born there, but most of my family lives there, or has at one point. ive been many times for long periods of time and I hope to live there one day. you just earned yourself a new subscriber man, great content! keep it up!
Rain, if you want to show Halifax looking great film it in the summer, if you want to make Vancouver look miserable film it after it rains. I've lived in both cities and we spend way more time out side in BC than any where else in the country, we just don't like eating food and hanging out in the rain, that's why people go to places with cover and the investment on that shows. The parks are there to make the city feel less ugly, yep that's the point! Remember every city has different stuff to offer, also the sea is way warmer in the marinates so they have a different expectation and life style.
The reason it's like this, and I can tell you I've lived here forever, is because vancouverites want the park to be public. When a restaurant or volleyball court or whatever cousins claims the space for themselves, others can no longer use it. It's essentially privatizing the park, and nobody wants that, it's the slippers slope to having no park at all!
it is a good point, but i do not think it is a show stopper reason. There are 20km plus coastline, we can for sure find space for a street of restaurants and courts. It just needs to be planed/regioned well. But I agree, if too many restaurants along the coast, it becomes a problem.
Ya. I actually agree. Vollyball courts on spanish banks means that noone else can use that part of the beach when the organized vollyball tournaments take over in the summer. Also commercializing stuff where there is businesses everywhere and economic activity is tiresome. The whole point is to excape that stuff. I mean, granville island vibe could be expanded farther east into false creek and I would have no problems. But theparts that are west of the burrard st. bridge I think are fine actually.
This vid failed to mention the Olympic Village which has a fairly vibrant night life on the water, as does parts of Yaletown. I believe there is a compromise here in Vancouver, in that the Seawall meanders through quieter parkland and vibrant neighbourhoods with commercial activities as well. It is a balance well met, and you will find that it is a huge draw for visitors. I really enjoy riding around the seawall and stopping for coffee and treats on Denman Street or at the Olympic Village. My biggest gripe jibes with this vid, in that the Olympic Village should have had MUCH more of what this vid is describing. Who wants a 'big box store' like London Drugs and it's ilk in that space? It should have taken the European model of street cafes and restaurants, and a multitude of smaller stores. This would have been a much more vibrant location.... instead it has an empty concrete space with 2 large birds. It could have been so much more in the Olympic Village. The rest of the Seawall is great the way it is. I am not interested in a congested path for the whole length of it. Let it meander in and out of the suggested commercial zone, and leave the stunning Stanley Park Seawall as is.
Agreed! More development isn't the answer. The Seawall is there to walk and see the sea, and not look at more building and stuff in shops and see more people.
@@nancyneyedly4587 The seawall itself was 'more development', and it was a choice to make it the personal backyard of the rich folks living along the water. If 95% of it is boring, why not let 5% of it be less boring?
@@ScottRycroft I wouldn't say it's anyone's personal backyard as everyone can use the seawall. There are places where "the rich" have co-opted the shoreline and you cannot walk on the beach near those homes. You are saying that it would be better to have it be the "personal backyard" for "cafes and shops" instead of everyone like it is now. It isn't "boring" it is calm, it's an escape from all the shops, cafes and business in the downtown. I know extroverts think everything should be a big social fest, with people noise and activity constantly, but everyone needs a respite from the insanity of constant busy activity. "You know the downtown is so busy with cafes and businesses and traffic and people so lets go to the seawall for more cafes and business and people. " Brilliant idea, NOT!
@@nancyneyedly4587 If the super rich who live right by the water control what goes there, then it's their private backyard. There's plenty of peaceful parks out there. 95% of the seawall is peaceful nothingness, why not take 5% more for some activity?
I remember the walking path along Miraflores, Lima had basic gym equipment. Every 50 metres or so there would be bars and benches for pullups / dips etc. As a tourist I remember having a hard time actually finding a free space because the equipment was getting such use from the assumed local population. Made for some great evenings fitting in some exercise while the sun set. I would love to see more of that along the Vancouver water front.
Those b-roll shots would look very different in the spring and summer. The seawall is absolutely buzzing during the warmer months - it's hardly boring. And there are plenty of restos along it as well: Carderos, Cactus Club Cafe (2x), Lift, Beach Ave Bar and Grill, Ancora, Provence Marinaside, OEB, SeaHouse, H Tasting Lounge, Dockside Cafe, Mahony's, Tap & Barrel, Chop Steakhouse. Let's also be grateful that we have access to the waterfront DESPITE the condos and townhomes lining it.
Disagree. Maybe one or two of those restaurants are for everyone. But most of them are overpriced or barrier to entries for most people who live in Vancouver. That does not seem very fair at all. Plus those places to be honest are near areas of busyness….Coal Harbour, Yaletown, Olympic village. What about every other spot along the sea wall?
Great video and interesting points. Having been one of the West Enders who used the sea wall as a back yard in the past, I also would have loved some street food venders and especially more public toilets!
I would have to say it's the same with Toronto's waterfront path on the Lakeshore. I'm of the opinion to have half-n-half, meaning I'm fine with having some events or commercial spaces here and there, but I also don't want it to be overcrowded or too noisy. Walking from the top of High Park all the way down to the Lakeshore waterfront path and all the way to Union Station along the path is a real enjoyable experience for me every single time.
Kids have a lot of fun jumping around on the boulders and looking for crabs and such among them. Also all the beaches and the swimming pool. I think it is a pretty awesome area.
Hard disagree with this one. Our Seawall is not boring. Our Seawall is an unusually long and uninterrupted path that rims around the most populated and busiest parts of the city. Don't take it for granted. It's very unique and it's deliberately designed to be like this. It's only "boring" and quiet in some parts because it's so long and extensive. It can't all be busy and commercial. And most people probably wouldn't want it to be (e.g. cyclist, runners, walkers, families). It's like complaining that Canadian cities aren't as lively as cities like Hong Kong, London, or New York. There are cultural and city planning reasons, but a lot of is simply a result of less people and less tourists to fill all that space. The Granville Island stretch of the Seawall is lively. The Vancouver Convention Center stretch is lively. English Bay is lively. Kits Beach is fairly lively. Science World is lively. Olympic Village is getting there. Marina Harbour is lively. During the Celebration of Light, the entire Seawall comes alive with people. Could more be done to liven up some of the commercial parts? Definitely. I think there's a lot of potential around the Vancouver Convention Center especially to create more event spaces and restaurants where people and tourists would gather.
I agree with all your points. I think he was looking for a video topic, and thought, what part of the city hasn't been developed and I can complain about? This channel is sometimes very pro development at the expense of losing what makes Vancouver what it is. Van has beautiful Nature, suburbs, condo living, parks, activities, it offers a lot.
@@nancyneyedly4587 Yeah this video feels like more of a though experiment than constructive criticism. The seawall ain't perfect, but it's hardly the least functional aspect of the city!
As a maritimer who moved to Vancouver in the 90s and lived there for about ten years, and now living back in Halifax, I can honestly say that I yearn to walk around that seawall once again. I really miss it. I think it’d be rather awful and short-sighted to transform the seawall into a tourist trap full of shops & restaurants, amusement parks, floating markets and waterfront pools. People walk and ride the seawall for its serenity and scenic beauty. I like the seawall as it is, because it is a “snooze fest,” as you put it. That’s the point. And Halifax’s ‘boardwalk’ is teensy compared to Vancouver’s 17km seawall (30km including CRAB park and Spanish Banks). Also, the view of Dartmouth, across the Halifax harbour isn’t much to look at honestly. I live here but don’t go to the Halifax Waterfront because it’s too touristy, commercialized and boring. The ocean view walking along Vancouver’s seawall is quite beautiful, imo, especially as the sun sets on the horizon... sitting on the beach. Then there’s Stanley Park, wow, it’s even better than Central Park in New York. I’ve not been back to Vancouver in over a decade, sadly. I’m sure it’s changed a lot since then, as I’m seeing in your video. I hope the seawall stays the same. Maybe a few shops here and there, at carefully considered locations, but Vancouver’s ‘seawall vibe’ would be ruined if festooned with shops & restaurants and so on.
I think leaving it the way it is at Stanley park Is fine, but there are other areas that could use the businesses and foot traffic. For example English bay you can walk up a massive hill to go to the businesses on Davie to grab food, but if there were food trucks or small food shacks like Halifax it would be beneficial to people walking past. I do agree that the beauty of Stanley park is the nature and peacefulness of it though. I go there often and love walking around it even by myself
Like you said, there's over 17 km of seawall. That's a pretty decent distance even on a bicycle. It doesn't have to be 17 km of uninterrupted nothingness, you can have the occasional interesting place peppered around. Doing so means that there's nice quiet places to walk and also reasons to be there before and after a walk. Besides, just because you put up some restaurants or volleyball courts next to the path, doesn't mean you won't have a walking area. You can see these things back behind the trail to preserve the views and vibes for walkers and cyclists.
@aggregatejeff I live here and run and ride my bike regularly on the sea wall so I can confidently say this is just another misleading, agenda driven video by this guy. Walk a minute east of this highlighted area and you have Athletes Village with restaurants, cafes, retail, entertainers and space for events like Vancouver’s Dragon Boat Festival, and walk two minutes west and you’ll find Granville Island with a market,theatres, restaurants, buskers, and retail (exactly like he showed in other cities like Halifax but conveniently left out) and in between just out of frame you’ll find more restaurants, along with parks. Oh green space, oh no let’s fill that to make it more exciting for this guy. What he doesn’t mention is that the pathway narrows at points and filling it with buskers and smaller food carts is actually problematic when you have people, biking, and on all sorts of of forms of transportation going both ways. This is just another video from this guy creating a false narrative, where he picks and chooses parts of the truth to fit his message driven agenda. If that critique feels unfair then appreciate that if you leave out important facts you are deliberately spreading misinformation, a lie, false narrative and then sharing it with the world. Fortunately there are some common sense comments here acknowledging that having some green space, quiet spots, where you can enjoy the space and the skyline is actually a good thing. What’s worse though with this video, and I’ve seen it with his other videos, is that this guy deliberately turns property owners into the enemy - how dare they stop us from having food carts, buskers, and circus side shows on the edge of their waterfront properties - those entitled jerks don’t they know that I can’t stand being bored? Truth is he has an agenda - let’s rezone, let’s redevelop because that serves our purpose. What’s curious as well is the poor level of research in this video as London was in fact one of the first modern cities to develop green spaces and parks, influencing other cities around the world including Barcelona and New York. Anyone who lives in Vancouver knows that these green spaces are regularly used in spring and summer months for music festivals, protests, annual fundraising walks and runs, and yes even outdoor yoga. Just another weak video from this guy meant to serve an agenda and create division.
To a degree I agree. But Stanley Park should stay as is, and some parks should not be removed (like sunset Beach park) or anything along Beach av. It hosts events and that street should not be be blocked by businesses on the seaside.
Great video! I feel the same way in Ottawa along the Rideau Canal and Ottawa River. We have very few restaurants along the Waterfront and the ones that do are awful and just tourist traps.
I like it without so many restaurants and invasive comercialism. I love running on it and getting a nature tour at the same time. Besides, it gets SUPER packed summer as it is. That's the beauty of Van, to have a metropolitan city and a natural escape.
I agree I don’t want invasive commercialism but more of both is def lacking. It’s not the 1900’s anymore and the city is rapidly growing. Nobody is saying to destroy the escape just more balance for the sake of culture and vibrance. Nature will never be too far away in this town.
I guess nature means something completely different to city people. It is a thin strip of grass. You have actual nature all around your city. Just poke your head out and you will see it. Actually leave the city and experience real nature.
we don't need to commercialise every square inch of the city, its nice we have one big park wrapping around the city where you are not being constantly bombarded with advertising.
Paved walking paths are just terrible in general. I understand that a lot of foot traffic ruins grass. But I'd take a dirt path over asphalt every time and it's better for your feet. Being able to actually use the waterfront is better than a bland boring path.
We just had 1.3 million people for the fireworks evenings. +++ how many other events happen regularly on or near the seawall. Does anyone enjoy late night activities next door to where they are sleeping? I think the downtown peninsula is generally a very busy place. There is always more space for restaurants and bars now that there are more and more empty shop windows on Robson. Just a thought.
I live in Hawaii. Honestly a beach walk with little to nothing around it sounds like bliss. There are endless places to go to if I want a park and nearby food, entertainment, etc. A huge quiet space- that sounds great. Go into the heart of Waikiki and tell me that isn't so. Keep your quiet, undeveloped park Vancouver. Once you lose it, it will be near impossible to restore.
I lived in SF, Hawaii, and now Phuket; every waterfront is different but all ended up with the same desire---MONEY. Waterfront and everywhere except slums belong to the rich. Hawaii is not much of westerners area. It remains and belongs to the local, not white supremacy.
Same here. I love it for exactly what it is. With our tourism boom post-olympics, it made it a bit of a nightmare for locals, especially through Stanley Park. I say balance is key. Have your busy places, but leave our sanctuaries. alone. They’re sacred 🙏✌️
I like how peaceful it is. I think it's rare and makes it unique compared to most other cities where the waterfront is crowded by businesses. We have the rest of the city for that. But I agree that some of the parks you mention could be improved!
I agree, I like the idea of having a quiet place to walk and bike by the water, especially in the heart of the city and at night. And I generally have very progressive views regarding urbanism, walkability, and public transit. Perhaps the best solution would be to open up some parts of the seawall to commercial development, while still preserving the majority of the path for public parks.
I understand some spaces could have additions like a restaurant or cafe that are being stopped by NIMBYs, however the sea wall literally has restaurants, cafes, shops, etc... already along it. If parts of the seawall are too peaceful for your liking, just walk or ride your bike a few more minutes and you'll have some cafe or whatever. There's literally Granville island along the seawall, also Stanley Park/surrounding area has everything this video is advocating for and more. Building out every square meter of the seawall would ruin it.
I always love the videos you produce - I'm a big fan, but i can't say I agree with this viewpoint. Isn't it enough that almost every space in every city is "commercialized"? The b-roll you feature of the city parks, beaches, and paths is all taken during the winter months. What you *don't* see is the vibrant community the comes out in the spring, summer & fall months. I have endless footage of hundreds of people having drinks, picnics, spending time with friends and enjoying these "boring" spaces. The parks, beaches and walkways come alive with the seasons. The only difference? There is no paid admission. Anyone can BYOB and enjoy these spaces freely. They don't have to pay $40 to grab drinks and a burger to enjoy a patio section. The "commercialized waterfront" concept can be found in different hubs like Lower Lonsdale's Public market, Granville island, Olympic village, ect. And it's not like there are no food/ drink options in specific areas along the seawall (including restaurants in the west end, kits, false creek, ect). What makes vancouver special is you are in a city where you have the option to escape into nature, away from the presence of capitalism at every turn... and just for a moment you can feel detached from the stress of modern life. I feel as though this video frames this intentional design as a flaw, rather than a feature.
There are SO many easialy accessable resturants and businesses around the sea wall already. The reason the sea wall doesn't develop "unused space on some of the most prime real-estate in Vancouver" is because the sea wall is partially there so that people in Vancouver can easily access and enjoy our beautiful scenic nature that our city is surrounded by. Lots of parts of the seawall allow you to access well developed and fun places, such as Granville island, science world, multiple beaches and parks and you can do so by bicycle. This greatly reduces risk and is in line with the cities green initiatives. IMO, "unused prime real-estate", as you called it, is invaluable to a city like Vancouver to maintain a certain amount of green space with scenic views.
Many people blame the wealthy people for the situation at the Vancouver seawall, but there are few really wealthy people living downtown Vancouver: most people living there are not poor, far from there, but they are not rich either. The difference with other cities is that most people who chose to live near Stanley Park and the seawall do it for the healthy lifestyle. And that's what the seawall is promoting: a heathy lifestyle. You need sex, drug and Rock and Roll or a hectic lifestyle? How about you choose Toronto, Montreal, New York or SF? You could also check Amsterdam! I lived in or close to many big cities in my life (Montreal, New York, Houston, Tampa, Paris, Athens, Munich, Bombay...), and i chose the Canadian west coast for two main reasons: the weather and the healthy lifestyle.
Those voices actually turned out better than I thought lmao
How did I know it was you before I actually saw you?
@@mynameisChesto you know me too well ;)
Release more stuff, this was great. Vancouverites are so reluctant to talk poorly about their city. Cover the homelessness/drug crisis please.
Second this!
music for the wiiii
I've lived here all my life and I can tell you, the simple answer is that the entire waterfront is geared toward rich residents who do not want to see non residents outside the window of their multi million dollar condos. They worked hard to limit the number of boats that could anchor anywhere in the harbour, they lobby against anything that would attract more people or encourage them to come at night. It's a ghost town by design.
That sounds delightful in a way.
This could summarize most of Greater Vancouver's problems.
Ding ding ding. This is the true answer. Like basically everything wrong in the world today, the problem with the waterfront in Vancouver is rich people.
The rich get what they want. Where is it different ? btw : Terry Hui , Mr Concord-Pacific, owns the penthouse in that (to me) unattractive , stunted "tower featured mid-screen @ 08.49 minutes. Just another Erickson blunder . So accustomed to getting-what-he-wants his fellow owners had to sue for access to the common amenities in their own building. Of course we shouldn't forget that by far largest share of (metro) Vancouver land is still zoned single-family. On any given "pleasant weather" weekend the seawall, like it or not, is flooded with folk who decidedly are not westenders. Nearby residents are more prominently noticeable when inclement weather keeps the three zoners home so let's cut that "backyard-owners" NIMBY claim. Vancouver "hiding" from its raison d'etre : We live in a port city.
I don't understand why the "rich" spend thousands of dollars to visit overseas destinations to experience these lively, cultural places while at the same time fighting against having anything like that in their city. No to mention, vacancy tax nonwithstanding, I rarely see lights on in these bottom-floor waterfront residences anyway.
It sounds like the problem isn’t necessarily the parks and walkway, but instead the area next to it being filled with *only* luxury condos. If the surrounding buildings were a mix of homes, shops, restaurants, businesses, concert venues, etc., then a quiet, simple park and path next to those things would be a nice contrast.
Exactly. The Halifax waterfront is actually a walking path. The difference is that you can stop for beer every 50 feet.
I can see the developers want to gentrify the waterfront in Vancouver to bring up the price of condos but they totally missed the point and the place doesn't look vibrant and luxurious at all. I've been to a waterfront in Hong Kong called Gold Coast and they have a Mediterranean style plaza with luxury diners, arts & craft market and a luxury hotel. The plaza always hold free cultural events to ensure both tourists and the local community can enjoy the waterfront. And the condos do give out the sense of luxury by itself as a prestigious private school is located nearby as well.
Pretty much. If there were any businesses or private homes which could transition into running a business those property values would climb to the moon almost instantly. The opposite is true for luxury condos. And it's not exclusive to condos, pretty much every location with more wealth than the medium is like this. What I find particularly annoying is that this come at the expense of vast majority of tax payers within the city as it is extremely rare for an entire city or town to be a home for only the rich. Vancouver could expand it's local economy through more small businesses and things to do in general to generate more wealth for the average resident OR they could bend over to the few millionaires and corporations who pay close to nothing(if at all) in taxes anyway.
But then it would not be quite or peaceful.
There _is_ a mix of homes, shops, restaurants, businesses, concert venues, etc. - this fellow misrepresents the situation. Look at the segment in Coal Harbour, and then in English Bay, and then in Yaletown (all around), then in Olympic Village, and around Granville Island, There are Restaurants, Brew Pubs, Theatres all along the way...
Uytae: Hey Kevin, just need a few voiceovers, nothing crazy.
Kevin Shi: ... hold my pinot. *drops hardest track of 2023*
Lol. Funny seeing all these urbanist youtube channels comment on each others videos. Good community.
I used to landscape at several buildings on Vancouver's waterfront including the infamous "Erickson". For the Erickson I serviced the balcony flower beds for each apartment. I was shocked by how many of the apartments laid totally empty (30%), while some had furniture but obviously no one at home for several months (50%). If all the apartments around the waterfront were actually full with living attendees then I think the sea wall would be much buiser.
Yup that's Vancouver. Build lots of condos but sell them all to foreigners and speculators. Drive up the price for locals. And bring in more immigrants for cheap labour and create even more demand for housing and services but invest in nothing to handle it. Good job Canadian elites. You got rich but downgraded the standard of living for all us working schmucks.
Yep Canada being auctioned off to the highest bidders and Vancouver condos are at the forefront.
Yeah, the rich Chinese buy condos to park their cash safely. Good move as China and its real estate are crashing.
Growing up in the '70's and '80's, Stanley Park was a vibrant exciting place with all sorts of activities in the park and at the beaches. The seawater pools were packed, the games areas were busy, people picnicked and walked the trails. Every beach was fun, every park was fun across the whole Lower Mainland. The transition to Nofuncouver started after Expo and has gotten worse throughout the years.
Hmmm around the same time the seeds of Vancouver’s housing crisis started as it became a popular destination for wealth investment 😓😓
So true
I bounce in and out of Halifax for work semi-regularly, and its harbourwalk is definitely one of my favourite parts of the city. It may only be a fraction the size of Vancouver's waterfront, but it's certainly a vibrant place that also makes for a nice lunchtime walk to stretch your legs. Definitely a highlight of that city's downtown (although more improvements to the pedestrian/transit experience around Water Street are desperately needed to better integrate it).
we just need to combine vancouver's transit with halifax's waterfront and old row housing to make the ultimate perfect canadian city.
They are currently reconstructing the cogs well interchange and planning new water street bike/bus infrastructure ! To make it more pedestrian friendly as well
The Dartmouth side harbour walk is even more unused than Vancouver's though.
Vancouver's Park Board : No restaurants on the Waterfront, they destroy nature and beaches.
Also Vancouver's Park Board : No cycling roads in Stanley Park, they destroy car traffic to restaurants.
Parks? Nah man, the only parks we allow are car parks
-Park Board
Wait until they decide to put railings along all the seawalls 'for safety reasons'.
Visit Nanaimo's Newcastle Island park to see how much nicer Stanley Park would be without the shoreline destorying seawall.
the members of the park board are all car brains
They didn’t ban cycling in Stanley, they’re going to remove the dedicated bike lane (which, in my opinion only made cycling dangerous as people disregard signs and ride wrong direction). We will continue riding there and hopefully the police do their job and enforce the speed limit which the majority of the drivers don’t respect
Okay Vancouver folks. Like it or not, tourism to Vancouver generates annually $7.2 billion. You cannot ignore this. I happen to be a tourist coach / bus driver and we give tours throughout Vancouver and Stanley park. It’s next to impossible to drive a bus and navigate along the tree line there, with the cycle path pylons in the middle of the road. We need a little more space in turns. We drive slower than bicycle speeds, thus bicycles passing us, which is fine. Most cyclists use the seawall lane anyway, over the Stanley designated lanes. It will make much more sense to co-exist on the road. We are safe / professional drivers. We want to represent Vancouver the best as we can to the international community. So, please have patience with us drivers as we turn and navigate 50 ft. of glass & steel through tight corners. ✌🏼😘
nobody else combines great production value with such interesting arguments! thanks for the video
I'm very impressed
From what i see in this topic Vancouver's recipe for city planning is:
1. respect the residents need for light and noise pollution free environment.
2. don't cave to businesses and monopolize a public space for profit.
3. listen to the local community and build around their needs.
From what i see in this video Vancouver is a home while New York, Halifax and Bangkok are tourist destinations.
We shouldn't talk about public spaces in terms of their "Real state value" or "Commercial value".
Normal adults don't need "Attractions" all the time we are not children we have "attractions" in the city center, we need tranquility and nature to contemplate our sheer existence (we need Existentialist park)
Exactly. The quiet seawall seems like a peaceful dream compared to downtown Vancouver (or Edmonton, where I live).
I'd still like some playground stuff, but it just attracts the riff riff who slide down rollers all night when they're high.
You highlighted an interesting point about the Halifax waterfront that few people mention. The Halifax waterfront has two distinct aspects about it that are both great. In the daytime is is a bustling family and tourist friendly district with tons of diverse activities and food options. At night the waterfront transforms into a completely difference experience with lots of fun, patio experiences and events going on (more in summer obviously). The transformation of the Halifax waterfront over the last 30 years has been amazing.
I've been saying that False Creek is basically a high-ish density suburb. It's centrally planned with separated uses and poor connectivity with the rest of the city. The only attraction in many areas is water and grass.
I think it's a remnant of the 80s, when Vancouverism had to attract suburban office workers Downtown in lieu of building and urban freeway. So they catered to those suburban tastes. But times have changed.
I was at the restaurant area during the summer, and it was lively with plenty of people there listening to music and playing volleyball. It was really nice and crowded.
I think going forward, we can't just keep replicating this development model. We have to be able to build commercial streets with mixed use aparmtment buildings. And we can't rely in centrally planning every detail.
NEFC was intended to fix some of these issues, but the demolition of the Viaducts looks like it’s in jeapordy, and the entire plan will have to be scrapped and redone due to cost constraints.
Coal Harbour has some inter-connectivity with community services and restaurants with its seawall, but still pretty limited-especially since 2 lots designated for restaurants are so restrictive that no one wants to build on them.
Olympic Village is better too, though it’s still designed to get people deeper into the village than having outside frontage onto the seawall.
South False Creek was scrapped because basically none of the residents wanted to lose their suburban homes next to the Waterfront.
Basically, you can see a trend in earlier developments being more ‘boring’, and later ones being more ‘commercial’.
This problem is being solved, slowly.
Though, Vancouver still has the problem of having too many useless small parks in its developments, rather than a few bigger parks that can become hubs for communities.
I say we fix the past and build the freeway. That'll teach them! Let a city be a city.
You have been banned from the waterfront and you probably need to own a condo just to use it fuck man what a craphole I lived in northvan for 8 months I loved it but 750 000 for 1970 townhouse but the rest of van sucks
@@professordogwood8985 no
@@AlCatSplat Whad'ya mean no? This is exactly what the city needs! Freeway access!
Cannot appreciate enough the amount of work you put. As a new immigrant to Vancouver, I keep learning social and cultural policies from your videos.
Where are you from that you thought Canada was a better place to go? (Not disrespect but genuinely curious)
@@Apollo55_
Most native born people are looking to leave, we are priced out of the housing market, high cost of living makes most people live a little above the poverty line at best.
@@ShomoGoldburgler So basically anywhere is better is what I'm picking up? How do people make money to survive? I know there has to be some absolutely horrible jobs some have to do just to scrape by.
Edit (Just read your username, are you talking about Canada? If so forget about the last part with the jobs lol)
@@Apollo55_There are not many countries that you can immigrate to with knowing only English, so yeah.
Is Canada worse than US/UK right now though?
That’s cool to have a Canadian Passport that allows you to go back to your country anytime you want. Most immigrants are going slowly but steadily to their final goal. Staying in different places that might be better than the other ones for that particular time won’t get them a New passport.
I’ve been to Flemish part of the Belgium for 3 month, everyone knows English very good, but almost every job require Dutch, you get what I’m saying?
@@ShomoGoldburgler few are leaving Canada. If you mean leaving the bugman zone please don't. Bugmen are not welcomed in the country side.
4:57 the b-roll of two people playing with a volleyball at that park is such a satisfyingly perfect edit (5:18) can’t believe he actually got that
This is what we need in Hilo, Hawaii--where the waterfront was once a gorgeous beach that was paved over to build a highway, and a fence blocks off downtown Hilo from the water. Redeveloping that highway into beach restoration with trees + much bigger walking/biking path would be a dream.
Oh- I'm from Hawaii as well Oahu. I actually commented that this Vancouver waterfront sounds great to me. Hilo is far more relaxed than Oahu (I actually grew up in Hilo before moving for job).
Like I just despise Waikiki although I really enjoy Ala Moana beach park. If the bayfront could be built up to be like Ala Moana beach park I think that would be great. But some of that restraint on building actual infostructure in the bayfront area is probably because of the history of the place getting leveled by Tsunami and more recently flood damage as the soccer fields become lakes.
I agree, when visiting Hilo, I could not believe how boring it was, even compared to Kona. Your weather is far worse so you need it even more! (Yes, I know a Tsunami destroyed the waterfront but still).
So glad you mentioned Halifax. The waterfront has always been an attraction, and a favourite place of mine, but the city has improved it even more recently.
Interesting take! As someone who loved visiting Vancouver while living in Seattle though, I'd still take Vancouver's boring waterfront over its southern neighbor, Seattle's any day. It's industrial with lots of car traffic on the west, and in the east there's mostly mansions with private docks that block the lakefront entirely. Vancouver's waterfront is really a tremendous public space, even if it could be made more interesting/lively.
I've lived in Seattle and Vancouver, In Seattle it's nothing for a stranger to walk up start a conversation and the both of you grab a coffee. In Vancouver it's nothing to think you're going to go out on a pleasant walk with your kid and have several bicyclist A-holes shout obsenities because you're not walking in a designated lane. And o yea, forget about any strangers starting a conversation or grabbing a coffee for that matter. Seattle has many problems but socialization isn't one of them. (No, Canadian's aren't nice or friendly.)
@@averychilco you get it, most don't. congratulations! I don't have a prize, but it's nice to hear someone who has a normal opinion.
a public green waterfront is appreciated and not being filled with privatization is a good problem to have . how to make it friendlier for social interaction is a good problem to have . Maybe the bigger issue is the neighborhoods around the parks being nothing but multi millionaires real estate investors and no regular families able to live there ? The areas I have been to that had cafes and restaurants businesses close the park like waterfront trail seemed nice 👍 .
@Khameleon I notice Canadians do not have a limit on how far they will dive into your personal business, but the conversation runs cold when you asked them (a Canadian) the most basic thing. Perhaps a bunch of self righteous know it alls.
@KhameleonYou're right! I attracted you didn't I.🤣
Dude, my girlfriend saw you in the train last holiday season. She said you're the first celebrity she's seen since we moved to BC last year -- we watched a lot of your videos prior to moving here. Great content + production!
lol it was probably another Asian. There are a few around hongcouver. Disclaimer: Lets see how many woke nimbys this post attracts that claim one thing yet vote another way. nothing worse than fake hypocrites
His videos are nice but he's no celebrity 😂
This video perfectly illustrates the concepts that Jane Jacobs made in her book. Building a park just to have a park, with no understanding of the surrounding land uses will get you this disjointed style park, where it's virtually abandoned at certain times of the day.
With only mid density residential nearby (yes, I know those look like high density apartments, but at that price point there are probably only a few families living in each one), the expected visitors to the parks are limited to people coming and going in the morning and evening. If you had some offices and commercial properties, you could increase the amount of people who visit at any time of day.
Hopefully Vancouver will right this wrong; it's not okay that a publicly built park, subsidized by all citizens, is subject to the whims of the wealthy landowners nearby. There needs to be a diversity of land uses everywhere, even if the wealthy dislike it.
LOL !!! A park is a park, not a 24 hours casino, okay ???
May the love and the peace of Jesus be with us.
@@jwu1950lmao
Good luck with that. Our democratic governments, (despite what they proclaim), have always catered to the wealthy. They probably always will too.
It’s a place to escape the city, I actually really like it. One minute you are in the hustle and bustle of the city and then the next minute you are walking in forested areas with water sounds, it’s peaceful and relaxing.
I cansee a couple of trees here and there, but definitely not forested. Except for Stanley Park and Kitsilano.
I think you could have easily compared the waterfront to the Victoria waterfront nearby. We have plenty of walking trails, but we also have a bustling waterfront near downtown and other attractions scattered around like dog parks, the breakwater, etc. It's not boring because there is variety, but there's not shortage of distance if you want to go for a jog.
Gotta say that Victoria has fantastic trails. World class in fact. We spent 3 winter months in 2019 and 2020 as Snowbirds. Our main form of entertainment was going for long walks. So enjoyable. Never boring. I miss u Victoria.
Nanaimo, Penticton, and plenty of other cities in BC have done a much better job. Its a shame Vancouver is so boring in comparison.
@@alexflavoie not sure it's a good comparison. Vancouver's narco population is larger than those cities
I think Victoria's waterfront has swung too far to the opposite side of the pendulum and is a little too commercialized/touristy for my liking. It would be nice if there were restaurants etc down there that charged normal prices, not just what they think Americans will pay :P
Victoria has no congruent seawall, and this is largely thanks to wealthy people building houses directly next to the coast.
It's true, Halifax has done a surprisingly good job of redeveloping their waterfront in the last couple decades. It wouldn't be a bad idea to develop sections of water front in Vancouver in a similar style. Certainly it doesn't need to be the whole thing, or even a majority, but it could be better. Some of my favourite places on the waterfront are where it interfaces with shops (Olympic village/Yale Town/Convention Centre).
It's only "surprising" because Canadians look down on Maritimers.
@@fraslex I'm from Halifax and have been living in Vancouver for the last 10 years. I've literally heard nothing but positive comments about the maritimes from other Canadians.
I've lived in both cities as well. I don't really like Halifax's waterfront tho and I found many locals don't particularly like it much either. Its out of the way, with little (and pricy) parking and bad transit, its very touristy, pricey, little in public services like washrooms or rest areas, especially when its busy. It can smell bad and has a knack for being cold and windy even when its nice in other parts of town. Its also an island from other destinations around the city being surrounded by mostly office buildings and a uphill walk. Outside of taking the ferry or living/working down there, few locals visit the waterfront much at all in my experience. The exception being special events like Buskers and Jazzfest which can being entertaining and fun enough to draw people down there.
@@ieatstheinternet I grew up in Halifax, and people loved it down there, including the locals. One of the most popular bars in town is down there. And it's 10 times better now than it ever was. I'm not sure who you were talking to, but it certainly wasn't my experience in my first 30 years of life.
@@ieatstheinternet I don't agree with that assessment at all. Hard to classify the waterfront as out of the way when it is the number one destination in Halifax. Everything not on or near the waterfront it out of the way. It rarely smells and and certainly smells less often than other downtowns. The downtown and the waterfront are thriving entertainment districts. There are nearby office towers but they are a backdrop compared to the bustling entertainment areas. The only people who don't like the waterfront are people who prefer to stay on their sofas or in their cars.
I live in Halifax and the waterfront is the place to be, arguably year round. It gets sort of dead in the winter, but in the summer it’s a gem! Restaurants, pop up cafes, souvenir shops, festivals, people docked on the boats and just vibing, it’s quite a scenery that also brings tons of money to the city and community. Visited Vancouver last fall and absolutely loved it, but I’m sure it could implement and improve on things that Halifax is doing. Thanks for your work on this video!
Halifax waterfront is sooooo great compared to Vancouver. Love it there!
I actually love the water front in the winter for that very reason but man is the board walk ever slippery.
That's because some people are afraid of drizzle. Oops, I thought you were talking about Vancouver. You must embrace the drizzle.
Great subject. Im torn though. Some parts should remain quiet while others almost need to be woken up. I lived there for 4 years and was an avid cyclist. I biked that entire sea wall several times a week and appreciated how I could keep a pace because most people were trying to get some exercise too. But at the same time it was a very lonely ride. There were definitely a couple locations along it and across the water, at Lonsdale Quay and the ferry inlet, that could have more social experiences. They felt disturbingly abandoned or forgotten. I was glad to see what was done with Lonsdale Quay went I went back last. A better use of that post industrial space. Some ecologically significant areas of Greater Vancouver became so developed and disturbed by tourists they were ruined from what they used to be back during my childhood visits (I won’t say because I don’t want them to get even worse). But the sea wall, other than in Stanley Park, is already in a highly urban setting and so either the useless grass patches could be converted to some better bioengineered spaces to buffer more city runoff and/or be host to more festivals/music/art in the park. The vibe can still be laid back if done well. Then future cyclists could stop and take a break, maybe make a new friend, or actually meet the love of their life in real life again. Haha. Just aim for connection I think. That’s what it’s missing.
"Meet the love of your life!' All cities should be designed around that mission.🥰🥰😃🥰
I was not ready for those purple yoga pants. Bless your heart for blurring your essentials.🤣🤣🤣
There is no reason the sea wall can't be mixture of both commercial/public space and an escape to nature. I for one would love to see large portions of it, especially those directly connected to the urban fabric already, developed into large public plazas full of small businesses, while retaining much of the nature in other areas such as around Stanley Park.
Absolutely!! The seawall in Stanley Park should of course remain a place to connect with nature, but those lo-o-o-ng stretches of grubby grass and nothing else *aren't "nature"*, by any meaningful definition. This is public space; it belongs to all of us. Let's get some life and community happening.
I have only visited Vancouver as a tourist, however isn't the seawall exactly that already? If parts of the seawall are too peaceful and "dead" for your liking, just walk or ride your bike a few more minutes and you'll have some cafe or whatever. There's literally Granville island along the seawall, also Stanley Park/surrounding area has everything this video is advocating for and more. Building out a random cafe, restaurant, shop, or whatever every square meter of the seawall would ruin it. Sure there's a few spots where some smart additions could be made, but perhaps it's pretty darn good the way it is?
The Sea Wall is facing an enormous challenge as it in need of serious and expensive rehabilitation right now est. are are 100 plus million maybe 200
No. All public space, no private business should build in a park. It permanently ruins that space.
@@damonrasmussen8836 It would be tightly controlled... obviously... You wouldn't even want like a small ice-cream shack? Seriously? Are you a lizard person? I think you might be a lizard person
It's a good day when you upload.
It's interesting how North Vancouver has started to address this.....
Brother you are an extrovert, us introverts love it lol
I disagree with many of your points in this video. I also find you purposely chose clips that reflect moody and depressed impression of the seawall, which is disingenuous. I use the seawall all the times and it's vibrant and full of life. I love that the seawall is not crazy busy. I go to the seawall and the park to get away from the stress and noise of the city. It's a retreat that I find is increasingly important as Vancouver grows and increasing in density. There are parts of the seawall that's vibrant and more developed like Olympic Village, Yaletown, Coal Harbour, and English Bay for those who prefer a more vibrant experience. It's IMPORTANT to preserve the parts that have NOT been developed, which is what makes the seawall unique and wonderful in the first place. We don't have to built on every inch of land and sea just because we can. There's real value in preserving the natural environment, and what's left of it. The seawall is PUBLIC and it's open to everyone regardless of your economic and social status. Developments like Cactus Club on English Bay is not for the people; it's for corporate profits and caters to people who can afford the premium menu. I sound like those white people that you mock (timestamp 4:20) who oppose the Kits Beach development - I have never eaten at that restaurant. Commercializing the seawall will only create barrier to the general public.
What you propose at 2:00 is good in small doses but what made Vancouver great is all the quiet green spaces. They're getting eroded every day by those disgusting condos. You are right though that, other than Granville island, there aren't enough points of busy-ness, but the plan is to make False Creek/Science World that busy area. Don't destroy the rest of it with overly loud restaurants and crowded streets. Vancouver should not become New York or one of those other disgusting "metropolises". Even after getting pushed out by the high prices, I dislike that Vancouver is being pushed to transform into the same as every other big city when it keeps getting ranked as a top city with it's original spirit. The more that spirit is crushed the worse it will become, strangled by popularity.
Props to Vancouver for at least keeping its waterfront open and accessible. Down here in Seattle they tore down the 1950s double-decker Alaskan Way Viaduct downtown and are mostly replacing it with... a 6-lane surface road speedway. But, hey, we've got a Ferris wheel!
I love your Seawall. But not on a gray, rainy, winter day. Nice pants.
Amazing vid man, see this same problem occurring in many greenways/pedestrian zones/waterfronts etc where instead of creating a vibrant, multituse place, you often end up with an empty, boring space. It’s no wonder such places end up desolate in some spots when they’re set up for failure to begin with. More effort has to be put into making such places interesting and enjoyable for people to spend time in.
This is actually crazy that Vancouver has no lights in their walking path at night. Unlike them, Toronto is transforming its waterfront and it's actually the largest redevelopment in North America right now.
Its because they don't want anyone down there. The cops come down every day at 11 and drive up and down the beach with their lights on and kick everyone out because the beach "closes" how can you close a beach.
@@samwalsh205 That's weird and dumb. Toronto on the other hand has restaurants and bars by the beach. I guess Vancouver really does live up to its name as being the "no fun city"
Toronto is redeveloping its waterfront since I lived there in the 90-s. It seems to be a forever process :)
Too bad they leased some of our waterfront to a private company for 95 years
I’m guessing it would be a hazard as it is clearly not very populated, so anyone venturing down there at night would be at substantial risk of being accosted.
This is a great concept. I live in Auckland, NZ, and there are two main parts to the waterfront in the CBD. One part has businesses which thrive from about 9am to 2am, there's a constant bustle (especially in summer), and people will go down just to wander around and look at the boats honestly. However, maybe a km away is a walking path which goes along the seaside between the CBD and the harbour bridge, which, while used, is never ever as busy as the waterfront where the museums and cafes and other businesses are.
Very interesting video as usual. Please make more.
I think the boring use of the Waterfront is more a cultural thing in Canada. I realize it more after spending last month in Mexico. Everything was feeling more alive there. In Canada we don't have the same sense of community, it's more of a selfish place and it reflect in many aspects of our country. The Waterfront if built around that selfishness concept.
canada is also obsessed with having very strict control of businesses of any kind. anything that sets up can't just do it willy nilly like in mexico (I assume mexico has rules about it but they have to be less strict), like a food stand needs a business license, a permanent location to produce food, and tons of stuff that makes where they can be and how expensive they are to set up a huge issue.
@@tezpokemonmaster true, we need a minimum set of rules but Canada is going way too far on many aspects. That kills entrepreneurship
You're right, more selfish people, they don't want to mix a lot. I left and live in Germany where they mix it up more.
Unfortunately one can only agree with the sentiment, selfish posessiveness is far too abundant.
american here, we thought you well.
I'm a big fan of the Brooklyn waterfront, as I think it does a good job of incorporating activities and restaurants while still letting you talk a quiet walk or bike ride in a city where that's often hard to find.
The problem is not the waterfront itself, its the lack of such places in the exciting areas. Imaging if you just through the business district/downtown with a walking path like this, it'll be full of life and exciting, and actually used to move people to where they need to go.
Agreed. That's what makes Central Park in NYC so cool. The contrast
Totally agree, if Granville wasn't a disaster and instead were cleaned up with pedestrian only streets and public seating throughout, you'd have the bustling community life some folks are looking for.
no, the problem is the failure of bringing exciting places along the entire length of the seawall. talk about completely missing the point of the video!
A city could either bring businesses, nightlife, food, music to a place people are already walking and biking and sitting - or bring walking and cycling and seating areas to a street that already has food, music and nightlife.
It's an interesting idea, either way would work but in Vancouver while there is only a 5% chance of bringing more fun, food, festivals to our waterfront there is a 0% chance they'd ever close a street like Davie to car traffic and make it exclusively pedestrian.
Yeah, no. Then you'd have a street, not a park. Keep it park
Nah there are enough restaurants by the water if you want to go, plenty by the water or 1 -3 blocks in, tons of them. I don't want to turn the waterfront into Las Vegas nightlife. And I don't want to turn the few waterfront parks we have left into more condo towers for one off huge profits by a developer before they move onto the next one.
Just found this video after a long walk along Chicago's lakefront, which I think is an interesting case. It's also not very commercial, and was designed in the same 19th century return to nature spirit you discuss, but is much more bustling than it apppears the Vancouver waterfront is. It only has a few businesses scattered over it's significant mileage, but it has several swimmable beaches (including dog beaces), golf courses, tennis courts, baseball fields, a big hill where kids can sled in the winter, large marinas, little nature paths / gardens that diverage from the main trail, plenty of places to sit, and (unlike Vancouver) volleyball courts.
It also, crucially, has absolutely massive parks behind the trail with lots of places to park and public bathrooms. In summer, whole familes will bring coolers and grills out there and camp all day. People will put up tents and hold big parties. I went to a baby shower out there a few years ago, it was a good time.
You don't necessarily need a ton of commerical space to have a good time. But you DO need to give people ways to be comfortable and actual things to do. And it seems like Vancouver's Seawall designers failed to do that!
I see a new About Here video, I upvote immediately. Excellent commentary - it's so interesting to see how often things come down to land use, and what values those land use decisions reinforce year after year. Metro Vancouver seems particularly focused on decisions that inhibit vibrant community spaces, like most North American cities.
Agreed
In Calgary, we have some great multiuse pathways. The primary ones go through Fish Creek Park, follow the Elbow and Bow Rivers, or loop around the reservoir. But they have this similar issue you’re talking about. There’s not much to do around them. They’re great for exercise, seeing nature, and active transport (depending where you’re going). But they’re also kinda placeless.
I love these parks, and don’t think we should just add a bunch of shops, but it would be nice to cycleways and pedestrian paths with a little something of interest. Thanks for giving me something interesting to think about today!
go through fish creek at night in the summer on your bike, watch rabbits part like the red sea. no joke its crazy. thats about the most interesting thing that I have ever experienced in fish creek. kind of a boring walk zone otherwise.
Prince's island park has a few cafes and the enmax stage which are really nice additions. Hopefully eau claire market is redeveloped into something that has a community focus in mind.
@@carbonblack6880 It’s true, we’ve got a few cool things downtown! Really hopeful about the Eau Claire changes. I’m also interested in how we might liven up the pathways throughout the rest of the city.
@@nao_chan_ We had sooooo many rabbits last year 😂
Hopefully things will open up in Eau Claire when the Green Line goes through. I find it can be pretty busy downtown though. It's nice
I live in the states, where almost all beautiful waterfront places have been exploited for capitalistic ventures like you suggest should happen with the Vancouver waterfront in this video. Take it from me, it was an absolute pleasure to spend the day walking and biking the seawall path & Stanley Park yesterday...something that felt uniquely Vancouver in contrast to the MANY coastal metro areas in the states I'm familiar with. You've got something very special there please don't spoil it. Just because you can put a restaurant or beer bar somewhere doesn't mean you should.
The waterfront walkway that I’m more familiar with is Nanaimo’s, which is a particularly good one (despite the city’s bad reputation, it has some excellent features).
There’s a floating restaurant, lots of small store fronts including places to get an ice cream etc, and an excellent city park with basketball courts, water park, food truck area, huge playground, dock for fishing, swimming area and on and on. There are always lots of people using the park and walkway.
It also has a small section that is boring and in close proximity to high rise condos which seems like an extension of the building’s property.
I don’t know… if people don’t want the sights and sounds of a city around them, maybe they shouldn’t live in a city?
J'ai beaucoup ri.
J'espère que les gens qui travaillent sur le redéveloppement de Molson verront ça.
Des restaurants flottants, ce serait cool.
Café McBarge
Would be lovely indeed ! Enlever le stationnement derrière le quai de l'horloge et avoir des commerces et plus d'activités la bas serait aussi un gros plus !
Sucre lantic is my favourite part of the waterfront
I like being able to see grass and trees, see the waves onto the beaches and rocks. In a dense city, it’s nice to be able to get into green space so nearby.
There’s no lighting after night to discourage people from being there after dark. Vancouver has a real problem with addicts and mentally unwell people. Safer to encourage people to avoid park land in downtown Vancouver.
Thanks for the video.
I love everything you do! Keep it going!
When I was in Vancouver as a tourist in 2022, I really was amazed by the fact that such a major city had calm and nature oriented spaces like the seawall and the adjacent parks for people to take a break from the busy streets. Maybe the seawall itself could use a handful of restaurants, cafes and such, but I think it should be stay as it is for the most part (not that I have any say in that matter as a non-Canadian)
Love your channel, you hit the nail on the head why we left Vancouver for Europe in 2008.
That being said, I appreciate the boring-ness of the seawall.
I was a kits, then westend, renter from 1996-2008 who was grateful for the lack of shops along the seawall, for exact reasons described by Olmstead. I could forget my stressful job and escape my small apartment (650 sqft 1 bdrm with no outdoor space, which I shared with my partner), without having to cross town to Pacific Spirit or the North Shore. Because even in the late 90s and early 2000s, on the weekend afternoons the area around Kits beach was too congested to do anything but walk very slowly. Forget jogging, nevermind biking.
Nowadays, I've found Kits to be a lot quieter, verging on moribund (I assume due to an older, wealthier population) so perhaps these bottlenecks are not as much of a problem.
I now live in Paris and my closest "green" space is along the Seine, which has seen its banks gradually converted from arterial to urban walkway and "park" in the past 12 years. It has been life-changing! On the right bank walkway there is a smattering of cafes and bars, and it is indeed crazy on weekend afternoons in nice weather (of course, it sure beats car traffic).
There are much fewer bars on the left bank, and these are closer to the Eiffel Tower end of the city. This section is crazy any afternoon in nice weather due to tourist concentration.
Since here too I'm living in a 1 bdrm without outdoor space that I share with a partner (the same one :)) I remain very grateful that the stretch of Seine nearest our apartment is almost completely devoid of cafe-bars. We already have 4 restaurants on the *100m* of street outside my front door; in other words, there's plenty of life at hand already. And when you walk a bit westwards to buy groceries, it gets busier still especially when tourist season kicks up. Most residents here flee to family or 2nd homes outside the city on weekends and vacation. But as immigrants we have neither family nor 2nd home to flee to.
My point is, it isn't only wealthy, aged luxury home-owners who are NIMBYs. We have been as average-income, very active 30-, 40-, and now 50-something modest apartment renters!
A walking path by the ocean isn't a cookie cutter idea, it is what you would be doing there if there wasn't a path anyway really. People like to walk on the beach and the shoreline, and this is accessible to more people too. I agree it should be an escape from the city, it should be a respite. There is walking along the shore, and there is walking along shops and restaurants, and they don't do the same thing for people's mental health. I prefer the respite from the city, no shops or cafes.
Also, the parking issue, if the shore were to become a "destination" with shops and restaurants. I know this channel think everyone should take the transit and rides bikes, but Van is a Big city and that's just not how it works. I think it's perfect the way it is, there is a nice mix of paths, parks and a few destinations.
I think most users local or travellers will enjoy the so called ‘boring’ seawall
Good video. I have to say that there is already commercialization along parts of the seawall. There are numerous restaurants and many shops within a block or two. Many people in Vancouver don’t realize that there used to be a long pier with a bandstand in English Bay right in front of the Sylvia Hotel. It was completed around 1908 and you can still see the piles of rocks where it was at low tide. I think it would be a great idea to rebuild it because English Bay is the most accessible and historic beaches in the city. Most of the rest of the seawall should be left pretty much as is. If you’re bored just walk into the downtown core and fill your boots!
With how massive the seawall is, there is zero excuse for at least a couple short stints become commercialized. You CAN have both. It doesn't need to be a dichotomy.
exactly - not sure why it has to be so black and white in the public discourse
The struggle is always that no one want to agree to have “their” part commercialized. Personally I like living right across from a coffee shop and with lots of restaurants around, the foot traffic makes me feel safer being out at night. Yet if I want to be out when it’s quiet usually all that takes is being out before ~11 on a weekend (easy with a dog getting you up anyway). But clearly the people in those condos (or at least the loud ones) don’t think that way.
Yes but who's willing to pay the enormous cost and taxes associated with a business at on or near the sea wall and it would be subject to codes that would make it unappealing and expensive. Did I mention the cost?? You would end up with a chain establishment that people want to get away from in the first place Some weather factors at play but well thought out lighting would enhance it for sure.
So it seems that his critique basically amounts to the Vancouver waterfront not providing enough profit-making opportunities for the city's capitalists. Simply having open public areas that people can freely use without having to pay for anything amounts to "wasted space" among the city's "prime real estate".
If the parks seem underutilised I think it might have more to do with that area's culture than the parks themselves. In Montreal for example, every park in the city is bustling with human activity because the city's neighbourhoods have much more of a communal nature where public spaces are seen as collective property that exists for everyone's use, compared to other cities in Canada where people prefer to keep to themselves inside their own private yards and properties, and consider public spaces as a more decorative thing that are primarily valued for their effect on surrounding property values. And thus public activity (like a group of friends having an after-work beer or a bunch kids playing loudly) are discouraged for their effect on the aesthetics of public spaces.
Oh my god Nova Scotia!!! I live there, thank you so much for the recognition, I love our waterfront!
Every time you make a video it's an absolute treat! Keep up the good work. As an urban planning student in WA State and close to Vancouver BC, I always learn so much and find these videos so interesting. I can't wait to visit the city soon!
Interesting - I spent 10 years in Chicago and I've seen parts of the lakefront that were both bustling and desolate. I would say that a mix of the two is nice to have! It's easy to underestimate the importance of finding outdoor space to be alone in a large city. That being said - Vancouver's waterfront is def leaning towards desolate. That restaurant around 4:00 is a perfect example of a much-needed cultural waypoint, NIMBYS be damned. Edit: Go figure - the rest of the video covers the "escape" part. I honestly think both are important.
Strong agree. I think it's important to not confuse a "place" like Granville Island, or the Olympic Village with an "artery" like the seawall walk/bike/roll path. I have a lot of use for both things. I can't run all the time. When I stop it's nice to sit down and have a bite or something to drink, but when I want to move, I don't really enjoy running through a restaurant patio!
@@nickgoodall578 "when I want to move, I don't really enjoy running through a restaurant patio!" Great way of putting this aspect of your point!
It's REALLY easy to create that sense of quiet space - just don't have a road or parking nearby. Most people will not walk more than 50 feet from their car. Even now all along the Seawall you have busy spots and super quiet spots but this could be way better curated by drawing people into hot spots where there are food trucks and cafes and seating and then quiet zones with no amenities and no parking, just trees and shoreline.
@@fallenshallrise For sure! That's kind of what I was going for. Chicago does a pretty good job of this and it definitely has some longer stretches without amenities that I valued as a distance longboarder when I used to live there. It also has big clusters of lakefront that have almost nonstop amenities, particularly places like Montrose Beach and Grant Park. I think the level of granularity between amenity and less-amenity zones should probably scale inversely with the population density.
I agree a mix is important. And you're right in chicago you can find parts of the lake front to be alone in if you want. Or be surrounded be tons of people. It's all about where you want to go.
Welcome back. We've missed you. The Sea Wall has become the Sea Yawn and Queue. I don't want this iconic walk to simply become Robson on the Water. Lisbon has a great mix of uses on its 8 km waterfront walk. One may walk forever along the waterfront at Alicante. Even the Cornich in Abu Dhabi offers more today.
As a Vancouver local who busked, I will say thank you for this well researched video. I have come up against some of these issues trying to play music at the beach and various parks in Vancouver. I hope that one day there can be "fun zones".
the idea of a nature getaway in the middle of an urban city is so underrated..
But nobody is "getting away" because it is so boring.
@@areguapiri Exactly. Boring compared to spending days and nights in 24 hours casinos.
May the love and the peace of Jesus be with us.
@@areguapiri No it's not, it is perfect.
It doesn’t look like much of a nature getaway when most of it seems to be ugly grass lawns
@@CampingforCool41 You can get a plastic green and beautiful lawn, but that's not natural. Nature is ugly sometimes, naturally.
May the love and the peace of Jesus be with us.
OMG another about here video, what a great way to start the day!
Just saw this on reddit and then spent the rest of the morning watching the rest of your videos. Amazing work! I only hope more people will become interested and informed about urban development in our city. Can you do one about bike infrastructure maybe (HUB, etc.)?
I lived in Vancouver right by the waterfront for two years while at the moment I live in Toronto which has a much more lively waterfront. I always thought the quiet nature of Vancouver's waterfront was a reflection of Vancouver's more sleepy culture in general. It's a place on the rim of the Pacific, at the very edge of the continent, separate by mountains from the rest of the country and by an ocean from the rest of the world. You can feel it in the atmosphere between the two cities. Toronto is always on the go, Vancouver is laid back. Toronto is full of drunken partygoers, Vancouver is full of stoners.
To give a good example of this, when I was living in Kitsilano I used to go to smoke joints in the back alley late at night and I would marvel at how absolutely silent it would be. Toronto is never like that, no matter where you are or what time it is you're always hearing cars moving in the distance.
In Vancouver I could go for long walks at night just to think about things and have the benefit of silence to do it. Toronto's much more distracting even in the quietest of places, you can really feel like your trapped in unrban sprawl. Whereas in Vancouver, it almost feels like a rural area which just so happens to have 2 million people living there.
I can see what you mean by Vancouver having a loneliness problem, but I think the trade-off may be worth it if the seawall reflects Vancouver's unique culture, which I think it does. I see the benefits of both Toronto and Vancouver's way of doing things, but personally I found Vancouver fit my personality more.
Interesting take. So it's alcohol versus cannabis?
This whole video could be literally boiled down to ''Extroverts hate that there's a city brimming with introverts and architecture that is building for them, instead for the raging party goers.". An oversimplification for sure, but it gets the gist of it. Similarly how there's tons of articles and guides like ''Ten tips to be less introverted and open up" while there are none being tilted "Ten ways you can shut the f*ck up for once".
@@MrMrtvozornik 👏👏👏
Yes I find the quiet space precious and a luxury as a city dweller.
Exactly. Vancouver parks are polluted with the smell of weed. Fortunately, there are better getaways like casinos where smoking is banned.
May the love and the peace of Jesus be with us.
i love the seawall.. I have lived and visited many parts of the globe where the water front is totally inaccessible to the regular folk---it is so hard to access. I love how the seawalls create public space next to the ocean that is super accessible. I think we do need that nature hit even in Vancouver. I like how there are mini pockets of commerce (Olympic village, yaletown, gastown ) if you want to veer off and have some commerce. I like that I can go there and nap, meditate, stretch, it is that quiet. I also have have an injury which makes sitting difficult so I walk a ton--and being on the seawall is so much better for my nervous system than around cars and on city streets. I really love it. I like how folks in wheelchairs and elders can access it. I'm glad for the break from commerce and I often walk with friends. I love the voice clips and the yoga pants.great video and history of the city!
Not everything has to be about food, getting drunk, and spending money!
Parks continue to be created in Vancouver in part to help reduce the heat island effect. Also, consider that a public walking path is much better than private waterfront ownership, which is quite common all over the world. We are fortunate in Vancouver that the seawall was built well before property values soared.
Lovely to not have to buy something from businesses by the water to be able to enjoy the sea wall. One can bring a picnic.
The parks could be a lot better though. Even just having more trees and some public art/sculptures would drastically improve the space
Parks in Vancouver only exist so developers can buy land and get away with paying zero taxes until such time as they decide to replace it with a condo.
Heat Island? Vancouver BC? Ahahahahahahaha. What will we do if it gets over 80 degrees? We will melt!
My graduation thesis at Uni was about reclaiming urban waterfronts in another country. The cases that I analyzed in European countries had many activities and public buildings connected to water. I suggested a project that did the same defending it would bring life into what I called "thematic promenades", such as museums, libraries, cultural centers, playgrounds, soccer fields, restaurants, squares, forums, plazas, etc. When I lived in Vancouver, I did wonder why all I could do by the sea was walk, pretty much. But I did enjoy it. Nice video as usual, content, and production. Thank you!
Hey man, I just wanted to say I really appreciate the amount of effort you put into these videos. also the voiceover was pretty funny.
You think lack of restaurants render the waterfront a ghost town after dark? If you and a friend are sitting quietly on the beach after 10 pm, police will come and drive you off, under threat of arrest.
really solid video! I appreciate you posing the question. I think it's super important that we consider these questions and don't just do the safe thing, but actually evaluate based on the context and the social need.
So you’re not a runner then?
I went away and had a nice long uninterrupted think about this video. In my favourite place to be alone with my thoughts, the seawall. I believe it's valid to see ways that the seawall could be improved, but I think this video glosses over a lot of things the seawall does offer.
It's accessible to a wide range of users. You can walk, run, ride (slowly please), wheel, push a stoller, roller blade etc.
it's free.
It's easy to get to. It has decent connectivity to sky train and Canada line, and with Sea bus it's actually a resource for people from all the suburbs served by Metro Van mass transit.
So I think could be better, and I think it might be a little over-hyped, but even as it is, it's pretty good!
Milwaukee, where I live, has two waterfronts, ones a riverfront and the others a lakefront. The riverfront is pretty commercial with some restaurants being there most of em are closed and the lakefront is a park like you've described. The only difference is there is a huge gap, a road and a hill, between housing and the lake making it so there are some lake side attractions, restaurants, a beach and stuff. I only wish there were more there cause everything outside the beach is pretty barren but at the same time I like walking down by the marina and enjoy the quietness and darkness at night. I just hope one day Milwaukee is as cool as you've made Vancouver out to be in your videos!
Now you know a little bit about Milwaukee!! Hope anyone reading this visits the city if you're ever in the Midwest!
Ahem - you could have compared Vancouver's seawall to the spirit trail in North Van - which is becoming very vibrant with concert space, summer beer gardens, a night market and even an ice rink. Aside from that quibble - thanks for an informative and thought provoking piece.
The North Van (and even the west Van to av extent) waterfronts do indeed have areas that are more vibrant than the CoV.
I live here in Vancouver and I've never heard of that "trail". Last time I tried to ride over there it was mostly painted bike lanes on main roads with a ton of traffic with some detours on multi-use paths. Most of that coast line is blocked by private owners, business and industry so I don't think a seawall is ever going to be possible over there. Maybe I should give it another shot.
Not every place has to be like every place else, looks beautiful.
dude i just found your channel, i am not from Vancouver and was not born there, but most of my family lives there, or has at one point. ive been many times for long periods of time and I hope to live there one day. you just earned yourself a new subscriber man, great content! keep it up!
Rain, if you want to show Halifax looking great film it in the summer, if you want to make Vancouver look miserable film it after it rains. I've lived in both cities and we spend way more time out side in BC than any where else in the country, we just don't like eating food and hanging out in the rain, that's why people go to places with cover and the investment on that shows. The parks are there to make the city feel less ugly, yep that's the point! Remember every city has different stuff to offer, also the sea is way warmer in the marinates so they have a different expectation and life style.
The reason it's like this, and I can tell you I've lived here forever, is because vancouverites want the park to be public. When a restaurant or volleyball court or whatever cousins claims the space for themselves, others can no longer use it. It's essentially privatizing the park, and nobody wants that, it's the slippers slope to having no park at all!
it is a good point, but i do not think it is a show stopper reason. There are 20km plus coastline, we can for sure find space for a street of restaurants and courts. It just needs to be planed/regioned well. But I agree, if too many restaurants along the coast, it becomes a problem.
Ya. I actually agree. Vollyball courts on spanish banks means that noone else can use that part of the beach when the organized vollyball tournaments take over in the summer.
Also commercializing stuff where there is businesses everywhere and economic activity is tiresome. The whole point is to excape that stuff.
I mean, granville island vibe could be expanded farther east into false creek and I would have no problems. But theparts that are west of the burrard st. bridge I think are fine actually.
This vid failed to mention the Olympic Village which has a fairly vibrant night life on the water, as does parts of Yaletown. I believe there is a compromise here in Vancouver, in that the Seawall meanders through quieter parkland and vibrant neighbourhoods with commercial activities as well. It is a balance well met, and you will find that it is a huge draw for visitors. I really enjoy riding around the seawall and stopping for coffee and treats on Denman Street or at the Olympic Village.
My biggest gripe jibes with this vid, in that the Olympic Village should have had MUCH more of what this vid is describing. Who wants a 'big box store' like London Drugs and it's ilk in that space? It should have taken the European model of street cafes and restaurants, and a multitude of smaller stores. This would have been a much more vibrant location.... instead it has an empty concrete space with 2 large birds. It could have been so much more in the Olympic Village. The rest of the Seawall is great the way it is. I am not interested in a congested path for the whole length of it. Let it meander in and out of the suggested commercial zone, and leave the stunning Stanley Park Seawall as is.
Agreed! More development isn't the answer. The Seawall is there to walk and see the sea, and not look at more building and stuff in shops and see more people.
Also Granville Island. I’ll add that Steveston has a nice waterfront that’s not quite Halifax’s but much closer ;-)
@@nancyneyedly4587 The seawall itself was 'more development', and it was a choice to make it the personal backyard of the rich folks living along the water. If 95% of it is boring, why not let 5% of it be less boring?
@@ScottRycroft I wouldn't say it's anyone's personal backyard as everyone can use the seawall. There are places where "the rich" have co-opted the shoreline and you cannot walk on the beach near those homes. You are saying that it would be better to have it be the "personal backyard" for "cafes and shops" instead of everyone like it is now.
It isn't "boring" it is calm, it's an escape from all the shops, cafes and business in the downtown. I know extroverts think everything should be a big social fest, with people noise and activity constantly, but everyone needs a respite from the insanity of constant busy activity.
"You know the downtown is so busy with cafes and businesses and traffic and people so lets go to the seawall for more cafes and business and people. " Brilliant idea, NOT!
@@nancyneyedly4587 If the super rich who live right by the water control what goes there, then it's their private backyard.
There's plenty of peaceful parks out there.
95% of the seawall is peaceful nothingness, why not take 5% more for some activity?
I remember the walking path along Miraflores, Lima had basic gym equipment. Every 50 metres or so there would be bars and benches for pullups / dips etc. As a tourist I remember having a hard time actually finding a free space because the equipment was getting such use from the assumed local population. Made for some great evenings fitting in some exercise while the sun set.
I would love to see more of that along the Vancouver water front.
Those b-roll shots would look very different in the spring and summer. The seawall is absolutely buzzing during the warmer months - it's hardly boring. And there are plenty of restos along it as well: Carderos, Cactus Club Cafe (2x), Lift, Beach Ave Bar and Grill, Ancora, Provence Marinaside, OEB, SeaHouse, H Tasting Lounge, Dockside Cafe, Mahony's, Tap & Barrel, Chop Steakhouse. Let's also be grateful that we have access to the waterfront DESPITE the condos and townhomes lining it.
Disagree. Maybe one or two of those restaurants are for everyone. But most of them are overpriced or barrier to entries for most people who live in Vancouver. That does not seem very fair at all. Plus those places to be honest are near areas of busyness….Coal Harbour, Yaletown, Olympic village. What about every other spot along the sea wall?
Well said! So much more could be done with the space
Hiiii
Wow , out of nowhere , you came here
it's by design. The city of Vancouver doesn't want that area busy with ppl all hours of the day. They want the walkway quiet and peaceful
Condos. More Condos.
Great video and interesting points. Having been one of the West Enders who used the sea wall as a back yard in the past, I also would have loved some street food venders and especially more public toilets!
I would have to say it's the same with Toronto's waterfront path on the Lakeshore. I'm of the opinion to have half-n-half, meaning I'm fine with having some events or commercial spaces here and there, but I also don't want it to be overcrowded or too noisy. Walking from the top of High Park all the way down to the Lakeshore waterfront path and all the way to Union Station along the path is a real enjoyable experience for me every single time.
Totally agree, as a runner I like paths that aren’t too overcrowded. Plus if they do have activities then make them wide enough for everyone.
I like the way the seawall is , nice and peaceful
Kids have a lot of fun jumping around on the boulders and looking for crabs and such among them. Also all the beaches and the swimming pool. I think it is a pretty awesome area.
Hard disagree with this one. Our Seawall is not boring. Our Seawall is an unusually long and uninterrupted path that rims around the most populated and busiest parts of the city. Don't take it for granted. It's very unique and it's deliberately designed to be like this. It's only "boring" and quiet in some parts because it's so long and extensive. It can't all be busy and commercial. And most people probably wouldn't want it to be (e.g. cyclist, runners, walkers, families).
It's like complaining that Canadian cities aren't as lively as cities like Hong Kong, London, or New York. There are cultural and city planning reasons, but a lot of is simply a result of less people and less tourists to fill all that space.
The Granville Island stretch of the Seawall is lively. The Vancouver Convention Center stretch is lively. English Bay is lively. Kits Beach is fairly lively. Science World is lively. Olympic Village is getting there. Marina Harbour is lively. During the Celebration of Light, the entire Seawall comes alive with people. Could more be done to liven up some of the commercial parts? Definitely. I think there's a lot of potential around the Vancouver Convention Center especially to create more event spaces and restaurants where people and tourists would gather.
I agree with all your points. I think he was looking for a video topic, and thought, what part of the city hasn't been developed and I can complain about? This channel is sometimes very pro development at the expense of losing what makes Vancouver what it is. Van has beautiful Nature, suburbs, condo living, parks, activities, it offers a lot.
@@nancyneyedly4587 Yeah this video feels like more of a though experiment than constructive criticism. The seawall ain't perfect, but it's hardly the least functional aspect of the city!
Clueless
As a maritimer who moved to Vancouver in the 90s and lived there for about ten years, and now living back in Halifax, I can honestly say that I yearn to walk around that seawall once again. I really miss it. I think it’d be rather awful and short-sighted to transform the seawall into a tourist trap full of shops & restaurants, amusement parks, floating markets and waterfront pools. People walk and ride the seawall for its serenity and scenic beauty. I like the seawall as it is, because it is a “snooze fest,” as you put it. That’s the point.
And Halifax’s ‘boardwalk’ is teensy compared to Vancouver’s 17km seawall (30km including CRAB park and Spanish Banks). Also, the view of Dartmouth, across the Halifax harbour isn’t much to look at honestly. I live here but don’t go to the Halifax Waterfront because it’s too touristy, commercialized and boring.
The ocean view walking along Vancouver’s seawall is quite beautiful, imo, especially as the sun sets on the horizon... sitting on the beach. Then there’s Stanley Park, wow, it’s even better than Central Park in New York.
I’ve not been back to Vancouver in over a decade, sadly. I’m sure it’s changed a lot since then, as I’m seeing in your video. I hope the seawall stays the same. Maybe a few shops here and there, at carefully considered locations, but Vancouver’s ‘seawall vibe’ would be ruined if festooned with shops & restaurants and so on.
I think leaving it the way it is at Stanley park Is fine, but there are other areas that could use the businesses and foot traffic. For example English bay you can walk up a massive hill to go to the businesses on Davie to grab food, but if there were food trucks or small food shacks like Halifax it would be beneficial to people walking past.
I do agree that the beauty of Stanley park is the nature and peacefulness of it though. I go there often and love walking around it even by myself
Just walk the Stanley Park section then.
Like you said, there's over 17 km of seawall. That's a pretty decent distance even on a bicycle. It doesn't have to be 17 km of uninterrupted nothingness, you can have the occasional interesting place peppered around. Doing so means that there's nice quiet places to walk and also reasons to be there before and after a walk.
Besides, just because you put up some restaurants or volleyball courts next to the path, doesn't mean you won't have a walking area. You can see these things back behind the trail to preserve the views and vibes for walkers and cyclists.
I actually loved how quiet the seawall is when I was a tourist there
@aggregatejeff I live here and run and ride my bike regularly on the sea wall so I can confidently say this is just another misleading, agenda driven video by this guy. Walk a minute east of this highlighted area and you have Athletes Village with restaurants, cafes, retail, entertainers and space for events like Vancouver’s Dragon Boat Festival, and walk two minutes west and you’ll find Granville Island with a market,theatres, restaurants, buskers, and retail (exactly like he showed in other cities like Halifax but conveniently left out) and in between just out of frame you’ll find more restaurants, along with parks. Oh green space, oh no let’s fill that to make it more exciting for this guy. What he doesn’t mention is that the pathway narrows at points and filling it with buskers and smaller food carts is actually problematic when you have people, biking, and on all sorts of of forms of transportation going both ways. This is just another video from this guy creating a false narrative, where he picks and chooses parts of the truth to fit his message driven agenda. If that critique feels unfair then appreciate that if you leave out important facts you are deliberately spreading misinformation, a lie, false narrative and then sharing it with the world. Fortunately there are some common sense comments here acknowledging that having some green space, quiet spots, where you can enjoy the space and the skyline is actually a good thing. What’s worse though with this video, and I’ve seen it with his other videos, is that this guy deliberately turns property owners into the enemy - how dare they stop us from having food carts, buskers, and circus side shows on the edge of their waterfront properties - those entitled jerks don’t they know that I can’t stand being bored? Truth is he has an agenda - let’s rezone, let’s redevelop because that serves our purpose. What’s curious as well is the poor level of research in this video as London was in fact one of the first modern cities to develop green spaces and parks, influencing other cities around the world including Barcelona and New York. Anyone who lives in Vancouver knows that these green spaces are regularly used in spring and summer months for music festivals, protests, annual fundraising walks and runs, and yes even outdoor yoga. Just another weak video from this guy meant to serve an agenda and create division.
I like it how it is. If you want to go to a busy area, go to a busy area. It's not like Vancouver doesn't have them.
@2:41: Vancouver getting heat from the guy wearing hot pink yoga pants. 😆
To a degree I agree. But Stanley Park should stay as is, and some parks should not be removed (like sunset Beach park) or anything along Beach av. It hosts events and that street should not be be blocked by businesses on the seaside.
Great video! I feel the same way in Ottawa along the Rideau Canal and Ottawa River. We have very few restaurants along the Waterfront and the ones that do are awful and just tourist traps.
I like it without so many restaurants and invasive comercialism. I love running on it and getting a nature tour at the same time. Besides, it gets SUPER packed summer as it is. That's the beauty of Van, to have a metropolitan city and a natural escape.
I agree I don’t want invasive commercialism but more of both is def lacking. It’s not the 1900’s anymore and the city is rapidly growing. Nobody is saying to destroy the escape just more balance for the sake of culture and vibrance. Nature will never be too far away in this town.
Except NOBODY is running on it.
There’s not much nature there, just grass. At least plant some flowers or something
Agreed. It's already very crowded at times.
I guess nature means something completely different to city people. It is a thin strip of grass. You have actual nature all around your city. Just poke your head out and you will see it. Actually leave the city and experience real nature.
we don't need to commercialise every square inch of the city, its nice we have one big park wrapping around the city where you are not being constantly bombarded with advertising.
Paved walking paths are just terrible in general. I understand that a lot of foot traffic ruins grass. But I'd take a dirt path over asphalt every time and it's better for your feet. Being able to actually use the waterfront is better than a bland boring path.
We just had 1.3 million people for the fireworks evenings. +++ how many other events happen regularly on or near the seawall. Does anyone enjoy late night activities next door to where they are sleeping? I think the downtown peninsula is generally a very busy place. There is always more space for restaurants and bars now that there are more and more empty shop windows on Robson. Just a thought.
I live in Hawaii. Honestly a beach walk with little to nothing around it sounds like bliss. There are endless places to go to if I want a park and nearby food, entertainment, etc. A huge quiet space- that sounds great.
Go into the heart of Waikiki and tell me that isn't so.
Keep your quiet, undeveloped park Vancouver. Once you lose it, it will be near impossible to restore.
I lived in SF, Hawaii, and now Phuket; every waterfront is different but all ended up with the same desire---MONEY. Waterfront and everywhere except slums belong to the rich. Hawaii is not much of westerners area. It remains and belongs to the local, not white supremacy.
I agree. I like the nice and quiet waterfront in Vancouver
Same here. I love it for exactly what it is. With our tourism boom post-olympics, it made it a bit of a nightmare for locals, especially through Stanley Park. I say balance is key. Have your busy places, but leave our sanctuaries. alone. They’re sacred 🙏✌️
This comment is so on point. We'll put.
I like how peaceful it is. I think it's rare and makes it unique compared to most other cities where the waterfront is crowded by businesses. We have the rest of the city for that.
But I agree that some of the parks you mention could be improved!
I agree, I like the idea of having a quiet place to walk and bike by the water, especially in the heart of the city and at night. And I generally have very progressive views regarding urbanism, walkability, and public transit. Perhaps the best solution would be to open up some parts of the seawall to commercial development, while still preserving the majority of the path for public parks.
I understand some spaces could have additions like a restaurant or cafe that are being stopped by NIMBYs, however the sea wall literally has restaurants, cafes, shops, etc... already along it. If parts of the seawall are too peaceful for your liking, just walk or ride your bike a few more minutes and you'll have some cafe or whatever. There's literally Granville island along the seawall, also Stanley Park/surrounding area has everything this video is advocating for and more. Building out every square meter of the seawall would ruin it.
@@jjsvideos715Except NOBODY is walking, running, or biking on it.
@@areguapiri Man, there are literally thousands of people walking, running and biking on it on any given day during the warmer months.
I always love the videos you produce - I'm a big fan, but i can't say I agree with this viewpoint. Isn't it enough that almost every space in every city is "commercialized"? The b-roll you feature of the city parks, beaches, and paths is all taken during the winter months. What you *don't* see is the vibrant community the comes out in the spring, summer & fall months. I have endless footage of hundreds of people having drinks, picnics, spending time with friends and enjoying these "boring" spaces. The parks, beaches and walkways come alive with the seasons. The only difference? There is no paid admission. Anyone can BYOB and enjoy these spaces freely. They don't have to pay $40 to grab drinks and a burger to enjoy a patio section. The "commercialized waterfront" concept can be found in different hubs like Lower Lonsdale's Public market, Granville island, Olympic village, ect. And it's not like there are no food/ drink options in specific areas along the seawall (including restaurants in the west end, kits, false creek, ect). What makes vancouver special is you are in a city where you have the option to escape into nature, away from the presence of capitalism at every turn... and just for a moment you can feel detached from the stress of modern life. I feel as though this video frames this intentional design as a flaw, rather than a feature.
what can you do on the Vancouver waterfront at night????????
There are SO many easialy accessable resturants and businesses around the sea wall already. The reason the sea wall doesn't develop "unused space on some of the most prime real-estate in Vancouver" is because the sea wall is partially there so that people in Vancouver can easily access and enjoy our beautiful scenic nature that our city is surrounded by. Lots of parts of the seawall allow you to access well developed and fun places, such as Granville island, science world, multiple beaches and parks and you can do so by bicycle. This greatly reduces risk and is in line with the cities green initiatives. IMO, "unused prime real-estate", as you called it, is invaluable to a city like Vancouver to maintain a certain amount of green space with scenic views.
Many people blame the wealthy people for the situation at the Vancouver seawall, but there are few really wealthy people living downtown Vancouver: most people living there are not poor, far from there, but they are not rich either. The difference with other cities is that most people who chose to live near Stanley Park and the seawall do it for the healthy lifestyle. And that's what the seawall is promoting: a heathy lifestyle. You need sex, drug and Rock and Roll or a hectic lifestyle? How about you choose Toronto, Montreal, New York or SF? You could also check Amsterdam! I lived in or close to many big cities in my life (Montreal, New York, Houston, Tampa, Paris, Athens, Munich, Bombay...), and i chose the Canadian west coast for two main reasons: the weather and the healthy lifestyle.