Agreed! I've been wearing seat harnesses since the 80's for windsurfing, and stayed with it for kitesurfing. The day I had to borrow a waist harness I found out how uncomfortable they are, and shifted the pull up so far that I went home with lower back pain, and never went back. Yes, there is a bit less mobility, but I'm still pulling double back rolls, and can just about get a board grab in. Thanks Sam, really detailed breakdown.
I have exactly the same experience! I also started windsurfing as a kid in the 80's and moved on to kitesurfing some 6 years ago. Tried waist harnesses, I dislike the high hook position and the brutality of the pull on my back. The Dakine Vega is my harness of choice because it's not padded much, keeps mobility largely intact for what I need (big air!) and avoids the diaper look.
Don't see a lot of women commenting on here, so I'll add that although I haven't gotten my seat harness yet, as someone without alot of weight on my upper body, I definitely struggle with holding the kite down with the waist harness when I'm at all overpowered. Which is, like, half the time. In addition, we got to kite for a month this winter, and with my waist harness, I developed a nasty back problem around L3 and L4, due to the harness. Still feeling the effects of that, 6 months later, so seat harness it is! Thanks for this info!
You don't get more resistance against forces (gravitational,centrifical,etc) by pushing down or sitting down. Water skiers and alpine racers learn that a higher edge angle will allow you to use less pressure and hold the turn better. In big air it's very important to hold a strong edge. I have both type harnesses and like both! For doing inverted spins the seat harness is like a cradle I can hang and spin easier. For big air jumps over 35' you really need to turn your hips aggressively away at pop and the seat harness will not allow it. I also end up hitting my bum on a wave often as I sit into the seat harness and that kills the jump. Can't get to that higher edge angle with the harness sitting lower! Thanks for your great videos!!😎🏝
For windsurfing, much the same issues. Used a Dakine harness from the 80s that was a waist harness with Velcro attached seat straps, best of both worlds. Started again recently, hated waist harnesses and eventually found a good Dakine seat harness. Allows sailing overpowered and don’t ride up. Also less back and rib pain
Hi Sam, good comparison. I learned on the seat harness, moved to the waist because all you pros make it look cool. Well I tried ride engine, and dakine hard shell, couldn't take more than 30 minutes of it. It was killing my back and riding up. Plus it was harder doing transition turns on the waist harness. Sold the waist harnesses. I'm a lifer on the seat harness. It is especially good for foiling when you leave the kite straight up. I have a slider on my harness and no problems doing tricks.
I suffer from lower back issues L4 and L5. For me a seat harness is a must. I do enjoy the flexibility with a waist harness but I will be in pain for at least 2 days if I go that route.
yep, I learned on a seat harness years ago, but switched to a waist harness. Now I'm a bit older and can feel it in my lower back sometimes. Foiling mainly now, so I've switched back to a seat harness. Only thing is I have to relearn all my balance for foiling tacks!
I tried seat harnesses (Dakine, ION) and waist harness like Dakine Pyro and Ride Engine. I hated seat harnesses because of restricting movement. I rode ride enigne but it drive really hard up when jumping or overpowered. Finally I found Mystic X hardshell and for me it is perfect it has much bigger back area than ride engine and better support. Also hook area does not twist and goes to Your ribs. The downside - it cost a lot.
A seat harness with a rope spreader bar is the solution that I like best. Good power, no painful ribs, and still good freedom when twisting and turning the body.
Nice video Sam great to see a rider of your caliber trying some different concepts. The Dakine Nitrous shorts harness come without the neoprene liner that the Ion have. They are a better fit in a wetsuit and in tropical locations I use a pair of neoprene shorts under them.
Hey Sam- digging up this old video. I had a similar crash and have a nasty little rib fracture with quite a big cartilage injury in about the same spot you described. Wondering how long you were out of your waist harness and if you found anything that helped you recover quicker. Going to try a seat harness in the mean time. Cheers
Thanks for this one! Due to my big balls :) and due to the pain I suffer from a damaged disc in the back I have to ride a seat harness. The shorts look really interesting - I ride both in hot and cold conditions, from Egypt to Marocco and Greece. What do you think - would the shorts version work with a Neopren? Thanks a lot bro for all the great material you are uploading
I started learning with a waist harness and it almost ruined the sport for me. I'm kind of a skinny dude and the waist harness gave me chest discomfort during lessons. After buying a seat harness, it was night and day. No more pressure on my chest and ribs. Learning was so much easier!! I only use seat harness and I don't see myself going back. When I boost I feel like the wear and tear on my body/back is so much reduced when I use my seat harness.
Same. I actually found that when it rode up it was preventing me from taking proper breaths. Pretty dangerous when wiping out as a beginner. Have been using seat harnesses since about day 3 of doing the sport, which was many years ago now.
Nice to see the ol' seat/shorts harnesses getting some love. With the shorts, wear compression shorts style swim shorts underneath. Prevents chaffing, and doesn't bunch up like traditional swim shorts.
Great advice! It makes total sense as well.. I wonder if myself, having not any history with harnesses, would I really be effected and miss a non-seat harness off the hop. It seems like the apprehension is lack of experience with big air as it’s a little sketchy and more cautious approaching air but all around your going to want to go with a seat harness all the way! I totally agree! Thx for the video it was GREAT! CheerZ!
Hi Sam, I’m back in my waist harness after 3 months in seat harness also because of broken ribs. In fact, I have bend and broken ribs even when I’m using impact west. Question: Can you describe best impact west to protect your ribs? Thanks for all the good videos !
Loving my ION B2 harness for 5 seasons already. It's truly the best! ANd I even use it over my wetsuit with no problem =)) Forced to use waist harness ony in winter while snowkiting =)))
Sounds great explainations, I wish the weather would sort itself out so I can have a 1 2 1 and hopefully get up and ride so can experience more and find out what the fun is all about.
One of the most complete explanation I found for understanding difference between waist and seat harness. I was looking for a short harness but I wear a wetsuit almost on every session. Why the seat is more comfortable than the short in the wetsuit ?
Great video! (as usual 🤟🏼) One question about waist harnesses: How tight do you fasten them when doing big air? I always try to tight my harness as hard as I can, but some local riders has told me that is not a good idea for my ribs. The problem I’d find wearing it loose is that it’d go up on every jump! 😰
Another great vid (you should be doing the duotone product clips), waist harness and impact vest, used to like the seat harness for landboarding and buggying, also better for lofting...
Hi Sam. I love using a shorts harness. The LF Styler Harness was nice because it had longer shorts with some style. Most of the other harness shorts I’ve tried ride up and look like I’m wearing mini shorts, not board shorts. Do you think there could be a market for some nice board short harnesses? Any recommendations?
Hy Sam, currently using your videos for language teaching-- to get my students down to use comparatives they're excellent! I'll let you know if any turns into a kitesurfer!
My experience has been the exact opposite: I can hold more power with a waist harness, because I can actually use my leg muscles to resist the pull, whereas a seat harness lifts my bum up, so I can only use my body weight. Maybe a good solution for heavy blokes with weak legs, but for somewhat athletic types probably not. For that reason I totally hated the feel of a seat harness.
Sam, since you are saying you can hold down more power with a seat harness, do you reckon you jump higher with that since you wont loose the edge in stronger winds? For me, the experience is the opposite, I've felt that the seat harness in more prone to dragging me off edge when loading up since I cant compensate with my upper body against the pull of the kite. But that could very well be a technical error from my side leading to that too :)
Hi. I have Mystic Majestic Waist Harness (2019) but it keeps riding up on my chest. Is it better to buy Mystic strappies and install them on it or buy a whole new seat harness ? Thanks!
Thanks great video explanation! Can someone please invent a hybrid harness so to speak? A harness that is a waist and seat harness combined. One that keeps the hook at the waist but also has leg straps to keep the harness from riding up. I’ve seen kite land boarders use a climbing harness rigged to the waste harness to help hold the harness down. It would be cool if a rider slash designer could come up with a comfortable support harness such as this. I think with more comfortable support and less harness riding up Kiter’s could hold down more power easier.
I've been windsurfing with seat harnesses forever and tried kiting with a waist harness. Main reason was the "looks" under the excuse of mobility. Kitesurfing is for very self aware people 😎 Are there no seat harnesses with a bit higher hooks? The only annoying thing with a waist harness being that it lifts and then squeezes your lower ribs. When you're a recreational kitesurfer, it can ruin your holidays.
I preferred seat harness since I can show off my six pack better but during hard crashes where I'm underwater it was more difficult to get right side up cuz my top had more weight than my legs. So I cover up my six pack and ride waist harness.
I started out on seat harnesses in the early 000s and recently tried switching to a RE waist, partly because I wanted more leg freedom. I really just don't get on with them though. I don't really have a waist to speak of, so they just ride up under my ribs and crush the air out of me. It's then impossible to pull back down without grounding the kite and that's another Pita. On top of that, they put massive pressure on my L4L5 discectomy and the high c of g means constantly feeling like I'm putting too much force through my lower spine. I'm going back to seat. I prefer the short style, I had the first nitrous, but their sizings are always tricky on a well built body.
you should try the seat harness, but remover the spreader bar and Put in a 3mm dyneema line that goes from hip to hip {directly under your elbows }. you get the lower connection point, and the freedom to swivel your hips, and the Chicken loop can slide from hip to hip.
Ion B2 prolly the best seat harness ever made 'wankers'...! Coming back to the UK in May, gonna come see you mate in Southsea... One of your better Vids..!
Cheers for vid Sam. I want to ride a Waist harness but I struggle with lower Abs seriously aching after a good session. Been riding the ION B2 (like the one Sam shows) and they are great. I can get board grabs, double front and back rolls. It does hinder me when doing darkslide though because of the limiting leg movement 😫. I am very jealous of all the styles of waist harness and choice though......"make more styles please Kite companies 😂" Would be cool to see how high the KOTA would get being able to hold down even more power for boost.....🤔
i learned on a dakine Hawaii seat harness, and once i got going my mates said "you should get a waist harness" i tried one and said "theyre shit, they ride up you, theyre uncomfy and dont pull you up like a seat harness does on jumps....." Now i'm better than 2 of them, gotta match the 3rd hahah :P
Was out for the first time of the year yesterday quite possibley the worst experience ever. Waist Harness was digging into my ribs I couldn’t breath properly and I am stil sore the next day think I am going to go with the new ion b2 seat Harness
1:54 Yes you can say "willy", It's just "penis" that you are not allowed to say. 2:28 No need to say "big balls". Given your insane jumps (facebook.com/samlightkite/videos/1710292582351190/) and mega loops (th-cam.com/video/aRhAL3uj5Ds/w-d-xo.html), those are just assumed.
Since i crushed my balls with the leg strap from a seat harness in a failed big air i am back to a waist harness... :-I A new hard or hybrid harnesses works much better for me than the older soft versions.
![“อ.เบียร์ คนตื่นธรรม” มาตามคำเรียกร้อง แหกศาสตร์ฮวงจุ้ย เตือนสติอย่างมงาย | แฉ 7 พ.ย. 67 [1/3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5fc4S3xBNfc/mqdefault.jpg)
The first harness review to openly address the impact of big balls on gear selection.👌🏻
KiterTodd LMFAO
Agreed! I've been wearing seat harnesses since the 80's for windsurfing, and stayed with it for kitesurfing. The day I had to borrow a waist harness I found out how uncomfortable they are, and shifted the pull up so far that I went home with lower back pain, and never went back. Yes, there is a bit less mobility, but I'm still pulling double back rolls, and can just about get a board grab in. Thanks Sam, really detailed breakdown.
I have exactly the same experience! I also started windsurfing as a kid in the 80's and moved on to kitesurfing some 6 years ago. Tried waist harnesses, I dislike the high hook position and the brutality of the pull on my back.
The Dakine Vega is my harness of choice because it's not padded much, keeps mobility largely intact for what I need (big air!) and avoids the diaper look.
Don't see a lot of women commenting on here, so I'll add that although I haven't gotten my seat harness yet, as someone without alot of weight on my upper body, I definitely struggle with holding the kite down with the waist harness when I'm at all overpowered. Which is, like, half the time.
In addition, we got to kite for a month this winter, and with my waist harness, I developed a nasty back problem around L3 and L4, due to the harness. Still feeling the effects of that, 6 months later, so seat harness it is! Thanks for this info!
You don't get more resistance against forces (gravitational,centrifical,etc) by pushing down or sitting down. Water skiers and alpine racers learn that a higher edge angle will allow you to use less pressure and hold the turn better. In big air it's very important to hold a strong edge. I have both type harnesses and like both! For doing inverted spins the seat harness is like a cradle I can hang and spin easier. For big air jumps over 35' you really need to turn your hips aggressively away at pop and the seat harness will not allow it. I also end up hitting my bum on a wave often as I sit into the seat harness and that kills the jump. Can't get to that higher edge angle with the harness sitting lower! Thanks for your great videos!!😎🏝
For windsurfing, much the same issues. Used a Dakine harness from the 80s that was a waist harness with Velcro attached seat straps, best of both worlds. Started again recently, hated waist harnesses and eventually found a good Dakine seat harness. Allows sailing overpowered and don’t ride up. Also less back and rib pain
Hi Sam, good comparison.
I learned on the seat harness, moved to the waist because all you pros make it look cool.
Well I tried ride engine, and dakine hard shell, couldn't take more than 30 minutes of it. It was killing my back and riding up. Plus it was harder doing transition turns on the waist harness.
Sold the waist harnesses.
I'm a lifer on the seat harness.
It is especially good for foiling when you leave the kite straight up.
I have a slider on my harness and no problems doing tricks.
I suffer from lower back issues L4 and L5. For me a seat harness is a must. I do enjoy the flexibility with a waist harness but I will be in pain for at least 2 days if I go that route.
Same situation , will get one seat harness asap
yep, I learned on a seat harness years ago, but switched to a waist harness. Now I'm a bit older and can feel it in my lower back sometimes. Foiling mainly now, so I've switched back to a seat harness. Only thing is I have to relearn all my balance for foiling tacks!
I tried seat harnesses (Dakine, ION) and waist harness like Dakine Pyro and Ride Engine. I hated seat harnesses because of restricting movement. I rode ride enigne but it drive really hard up when jumping or overpowered. Finally I found Mystic X hardshell and for me it is perfect it has much bigger back area than ride engine and better support. Also hook area does not twist and goes to Your ribs. The downside - it cost a lot.
Thanks Sam awesome clip. I prefer seat one because I have lower backache and also love foiling.
Seat harness definitely helped me learn to foil and cope with the gusty wind of the English Riviera. Thank you for the overview.
Great video Sam. I also think that for wave riding the waist harness gives advantages.
A seat harness with a rope spreader bar is the solution that I like best. Good power, no painful ribs, and still good freedom when twisting and turning the body.
awesome idea! I will try that
Nice video Sam great to see a rider of your caliber trying some different concepts. The Dakine Nitrous shorts harness come without the neoprene liner that the Ion have. They are a better fit in a wetsuit and in tropical locations I use a pair of neoprene shorts under them.
Hey Sam- digging up this old video. I had a similar crash and have a nasty little rib fracture with quite a big cartilage injury in about the same spot you described. Wondering how long you were out of your waist harness and if you found anything that helped you recover quicker. Going to try a seat harness in the mean time. Cheers
Love my Ion Seat Harness. You Pro's can keep your Chest Harnesses...
Thanks for this one! Due to my big balls :) and due to the pain I suffer from a damaged disc in the back I have to ride a seat harness. The shorts look really interesting - I ride both in hot and cold conditions, from Egypt to Marocco and Greece. What do you think - would the shorts version work with a Neopren? Thanks a lot bro for all the great material you are uploading
I started learning with a waist harness and it almost ruined the sport for me. I'm kind of a skinny dude and the waist harness gave me chest discomfort during lessons. After buying a seat harness, it was night and day. No more pressure on my chest and ribs. Learning was so much easier!! I only use seat harness and I don't see myself going back. When I boost I feel like the wear and tear on my body/back is so much reduced when I use my seat harness.
Same. I actually found that when it rode up it was preventing me from taking proper breaths. Pretty dangerous when wiping out as a beginner. Have been using seat harnesses since about day 3 of doing the sport, which was many years ago now.
Nice to see the ol' seat/shorts harnesses getting some love. With the shorts, wear compression shorts style swim shorts underneath. Prevents chaffing, and doesn't bunch up like traditional swim shorts.
Great advice! It makes total sense as well.. I wonder if myself, having not any history with harnesses, would I really be effected and miss a non-seat harness off the hop. It seems like the apprehension is lack of experience with big air as it’s a little sketchy and more cautious approaching air but all around your going to want to go with a seat harness all the way! I totally agree! Thx for the video it was GREAT!
CheerZ!
Hi Sam,
I’m back in my waist harness after 3 months in seat harness also because of broken ribs.
In fact, I have bend and broken ribs even when I’m using impact west.
Question: Can you describe best impact west to protect your ribs?
Thanks for all the good videos !
Wow, is that from jumping and slamming or normal rides?
Loving my ION B2 harness for 5 seasons already. It's truly the best! ANd I even use it over my wetsuit with no problem =)) Forced to use waist harness ony in winter while snowkiting =)))
Sounds great explainations, I wish the weather would sort itself out so I can have a 1 2 1 and hopefully get up and ride so can experience more and find out what the fun is all about.
I have short arms and the shorts harness’s have been by far the best solution for me, I can highly recommend👍
I know you stated that seat harness are good for beginners, but have you compared them for body dragging. It would be good to get your opinion.
One of the most complete explanation I found for understanding difference between waist and seat harness.
I was looking for a short harness but I wear a wetsuit almost on every session. Why the seat is more comfortable than the short in the wetsuit ?
Great Video as always Sam. Thanks for the tips.
Is there a waist harness you recommend that has a slider bar for surfing/ foiling?
Great video! (as usual 🤟🏼) One question about waist harnesses: How tight do you fasten them when doing big air? I always try to tight my harness as hard as I can, but some local riders has told me that is not a good idea for my ribs. The problem I’d find wearing it loose is that it’d go up on every jump! 😰
Nicely explained. Good comparison between the two. The result: I will now try a seat harness.
Another great vid (you should be doing the duotone product clips), waist harness and impact vest, used to like the seat harness for landboarding and buggying, also better for lofting...
Hi Sam. I love using a shorts harness. The LF Styler Harness was nice because it had longer shorts with some style. Most of the other harness shorts I’ve tried ride up and look like I’m wearing mini shorts, not board shorts. Do you think there could be a market for some nice board short harnesses? Any recommendations?
Hy Sam, currently using your videos for language teaching-- to get my students down to use comparatives they're excellent! I'll let you know if any turns into a kitesurfer!
Hi, I use Dakine Hameleon harness. It is combination between sit and waste sistem. Very comfortable for broken ribs.
Great stuff. Thank you Sam
My experience has been the exact opposite:
I can hold more power with a waist harness, because I can actually use my leg muscles to resist the pull, whereas a seat harness lifts my bum up, so I can only use my body weight.
Maybe a good solution for heavy blokes with weak legs, but for somewhat athletic types probably not.
For that reason I totally hated the feel of a seat harness.
You mean you hated the seated harness?
@@whatsupbudbud yes, corrected ✌️
Sam, since you are saying you can hold down more power with a seat harness, do you reckon you jump higher with that since you wont loose the edge in stronger winds?
For me, the experience is the opposite, I've felt that the seat harness in more prone to dragging me off edge when loading up since I cant compensate with my upper body against the pull of the kite. But that could very well be a technical error from my side leading to that too :)
collin's gonna take a crack on you for that one haha ;)
but a great comparison between the two systems.
So good mate! Very funny too 👍
Cheers mate!
Great video sam!!!
Thanks Sam, good tips about seat harness, nice.
Hi. I have Mystic Majestic Waist Harness (2019) but it keeps riding up on my chest. Is it better to buy Mystic strappies and install them on it or buy a whole new seat harness ? Thanks!
Hey, sorry I'm not familier with the strappies. Make sure you do up your waist harness super tight and it shouldn't ride up if it fits you properly
pretty cool video. Seat harnesses are also good for lazy board off ;)
I have also broken my ribs twice since then I also kite with a seat harness.
super for big air and kiteloops
Thanks great video explanation!
Can someone please invent a hybrid harness so to speak? A harness that is a waist and seat harness combined. One that keeps the hook at the waist but also has leg straps to keep the harness from riding up. I’ve seen kite land boarders use a climbing harness rigged to the waste harness to help hold the harness down. It would be cool if a rider slash designer could come up with a comfortable support harness such as this. I think with more comfortable support and less harness riding up Kiter’s could hold down more power easier.
I've been windsurfing with seat harnesses forever and tried kiting with a waist harness. Main reason was the "looks" under the excuse of mobility. Kitesurfing is for very self aware people 😎
Are there no seat harnesses with a bit higher hooks?
The only annoying thing with a waist harness being that it lifts and then squeezes your lower ribs. When you're a recreational kitesurfer, it can ruin your holidays.
Just buy a Hybrid harness ..(waist with legs support..) almost the full benefit of the waist harness with more support and less ribs Pain...
Which do you recommend?
@@PFpants they All good...Better try One and feel
I preferred seat harness since I can show off my six pack better but during hard crashes where I'm underwater it was more difficult to get right side up cuz my top had more weight than my legs. So I cover up my six pack and ride waist harness.
I’m a real beginner & this clip just confused me more 😂
Do I try and get a waist/seated harness now?.?.?
I started out on seat harnesses in the early 000s and recently tried switching to a RE waist, partly because I wanted more leg freedom. I really just don't get on with them though. I don't really have a waist to speak of, so they just ride up under my ribs and crush the air out of me. It's then impossible to pull back down without grounding the kite and that's another Pita.
On top of that, they put massive pressure on my L4L5 discectomy and the high c of g means constantly feeling like I'm putting too much force through my lower spine.
I'm going back to seat. I prefer the short style, I had the first nitrous, but their sizings are always tricky on a well built body.
What are your thoughts on slider bars?
Soo many old people with back pain here.
What your best pro model? Be honest
you should try the seat harness, but remover the spreader bar and Put in a 3mm dyneema line that goes from hip to hip {directly under your elbows }. you get the lower connection point, and the freedom to swivel your hips, and the Chicken loop can slide from hip to hip.
Ion B2 prolly the best seat harness ever made 'wankers'...! Coming back to the UK in May, gonna come see you mate in Southsea... One of your better Vids..!
Have you ridden a seat harness with a rope spreader for more mobility?
When the waist harness slides up de-power reach is reduced inducing tea bagging.
Cheers for vid Sam.
I want to ride a Waist harness but I struggle with lower Abs seriously aching after a good session. Been riding the ION B2 (like the one Sam shows) and they are great. I can get board grabs, double front and back rolls.
It does hinder me when doing darkslide though because of the limiting leg movement 😫.
I am very jealous of all the styles of waist harness and choice though......"make more styles please Kite companies 😂"
Would be cool to see how high the KOTA would get being able to hold down even more power for boost.....🤔
great info thanks
Thank you veryy muuuuch!!!
i learned on a dakine Hawaii seat harness, and once i got going my mates said "you should get a waist harness" i tried one and said "theyre shit, they ride up you, theyre uncomfy and dont pull you up like a seat harness does on jumps....."
Now i'm better than 2 of them, gotta match the 3rd hahah :P
Thank you!!
Seat Harness rules... better for jumping... no problems with your ribs.... always comfortable. It Takes a day to get used to it. But then its easy.
Love my B2
Nice
Was out for the first time of the year yesterday quite possibley the worst experience ever. Waist Harness was digging into my ribs I couldn’t breath properly and I am stil sore the next day think I am going to go with the new ion b2 seat Harness
The Bollox!
1:54 Yes you can say "willy", It's just "penis" that you are not allowed to say.
2:28 No need to say "big balls". Given your insane jumps (facebook.com/samlightkite/videos/1710292582351190/) and mega loops (th-cam.com/video/aRhAL3uj5Ds/w-d-xo.html), those are just assumed.
A
Since i crushed my balls with the leg strap from a seat harness in a failed big air i am back to a waist harness... :-I
A new hard or hybrid harnesses works much better for me than the older soft versions.