Always love your “news” coverage, as there’s no bullshit. You just cut straight to the point, and describe it through such a thoughtful analytical lens. It’s much needed in this hellscape!
While I agree that we shouldn't be idolizing celebrities and putting them on pedestals, many do it themselves. Lizzo's reputation is her own doing. Ellen's reputation was her own doing.
@@FabiolaRVela oh, absolutely. But to lay the blame solely on fans ignores the fact that many of these celebrities champion themselves as these activists and role models.
Couldn't care about Lizzo less, but huge shout out to you for the "celebrities aren't politicians" message. The public needs to stop thinking that people who are good at some sort of art are here to save the world.
@chetsenior7253 no. nobody thinks politicians will save the world in the first place. but people do think artists/celebrities/stars will because idk, they are glamorous?
@@randomfornowI think it's because celebrities have a big platform and people idolize them and will listen to them. Something like that. I don't think celebrities will save the world but they can do their part just like we can. It's a group goal.
I think that is wrong to bring your employees to a sex show and make anyone eat fruit out of anyone's orifices. I would think this was wrong if everyone involved was white, or thin, or accountants, or actors, or engineers. If Lizzo was a man there would be less questions about if this constitutes sexual harassment or not. If anyone pressured me to do anything in this type of setting I would also sue them.
Yes, this behavior is horrifying, it sounds like Lizzo enjoys violating her employees boundaries and abusing her power over them. If a man did this the sh*tstorm would be worse. I think weight shaming is bad of course but the s*x club stuff makes me even more uncomfortable, I tried to imagine if someone put me into this situation, sickening.
Even though I also think it is wrong I think we can still try to put ourselves in their shoes and how a situation would actually go down. I think it's wrong no matter who you are and what the context is BUT if it were a guy on a bucks night no one would really be batting an eye over it. Lizzo clearly tries to have fun outings and make I guess some sort of friendship with some of her employees, and that night wasn't work related, so in her eyes at the time she and I guess everyone who joined in with the chant just thought it was a fun cheeky night out with friends.. clearly Lizzo has a lot of growing and learning to do because there's a lot going on here that's wildly inappropriate, but we don't have to act like she's overall a terrible person because of a few examples like that.
One of my main takeaways right now is that that dance captain needs to be fired lmao. Thanks for a thoughtful, empathetic analysis, you're a true journalist
For me there were SO MANY people who came out in support of the dancers (including other dancers and people that have worked on other projects of Lizzo’s) in the suit that really made me give Lizzie some side eye…then her lawyer choice just sort of cemented that this is a pattern she is aware of.
Came to this channel for Taylor Swift and stayed for impressive mechanism of your brain that can analyse and dissect psychological complexities meticulously and yet so effortlessly.
I have LOVED your “mess reporting” this and last week. Your Ariana video is one of my favorites from you, and I love the easily digestible way you’ve broken everything down, and the awareness of the moment and conversation happening around these events. If I could subscribe twice, I would!
My friend works at soho house and Lizzo had an event there and my friend said she was absolutely horrible to the staff and treated everyone like shit. I wanted to believe in her so bad
I think people hounded about the body shaming because that make the better headline to bash her in the media. I didn’t think much about that part I was more concerned about workplace safety, that is more concerning if correct than an off comment that may have or haven’t meant something. Dancers to a successful powerful star being in an environment which in they don’t feel safe should be the focus and what is appropriate for a pop star who works very closely with their dancers
Personally I would not want to be taken by my boss to see naked people dance. Whether it’s artistic or not, it’s inappropriate and puts people who are more reserved in a position for criticism and isolation by peers. Wonderful explanation of the events!
every single video i am in awe of ur intelligence. i LOVE the way you talk about things, i would listen to you talking about your groceries for 10 hours straight and not get bored one second of it.
Wow this is my first time seeing your channel, I love how unbiased and thorough this is! As someone who didn’t know that much about lizzo this gave me everything I needed to know to understand
I appreciate your thoughtful, empathetic approach. Know the facts, avoid unnecessary judgment. I haven't been a Lizzo fan, and this was the first I have heard of the lawsuit. However, your in-depth explication was really fascinating. Brings up very big issues in our culture. Worth looking into. Thanks as always!
Just discovered you a week ago and I love your smart opinions. You obviously put a lot of thought into everything you have to say. Not to mention that I love your voice, intonation, clarity, and energy. Subscribed.
Great analysis as always, Zach! I definitely had mixed feelings when I heard the allegations & listened to the interviews the dancers gave on multiple platforms. I agree that the Amsterdam incident is probably the most damning. And Lizzo has posted videos of herself with large groups of people at strip clubs on her socials in the past so… As far as the body shaming-there was one thing Lizzo allegedly said to one of the dancers that didn’t sit well. She apparently told the one of the women that dancers get fired all the time for gaining weight. I don’t know if that’s in the suit but it came up in interviews. Now if Lizzo were literally anyone else it would be easy to just say “Well that’s shitty but it’s also just how things operate.” So, I don’t know. Thanks again for another great & timely video.
Another excellent video! I would love to hear what you think about what's going on with Doja Cat. If that isn't a topic for the Swiftologist then i don't know what it is 😊
Amazing video as always! I think it's so important to continue to question the standards to which we hold celebrities because I truly don't think most of the general public even realise they're doing it. Every single person I know has said and done bad things and put other people in uncomfortable positions and we would all have scandals if we were celebrities. That's not to say that Lizzo should be off the hook. I just think it's something we have to work to remember because the media makes no effort to remind us of it.
New subscriber here. I’ve been binging your videos all week. Not only are you no bullshit and no nonsense (Scorpio energy ♏️), you say it in a compassionate way. You are so dialectical in your way of thinking and speaking and that’s SO rare. Thank you for seeing the world not in black and white, but in so many shades. You’re amazing and I can’t wait for your next video!!
I AM SO READY! I need the Swiftologist to lay it out and tell it like it is and tell the people what is WHAT! Because people are really trying to hide their heads in the sand on this one. But NOPE. Seated and ready. ❤❤❤❤
Thank you for this video! Once again you are the voice of reason. Other creators’ coverage of this was either too critical or too lenient. You have a lot of compassion, and it still shows even when you are critical
As someone with an eye based disability, the thing that's most important in getting a recording accommodations is consent. It's very difficult to ask but its important for all parties involved. The line for me in this situation was the Amsterdam and the workspace abuse to the dancers.
One thing I will say is that, agree or disagree with you, I always love how you present things and how diplomatic you are. You really have changed my mind in the past because of this and all the facts you have that I didn’t have when I came into the video. Love your videos so much. Will always watch asap whenever you post.
as a hr girlie from the uk hearing employment law (or lack thereof lol) in the US is wild to me (if you're not happy with an employee's performance you would not push them to the brink of exhaustion, that's just setting them up to fail!) idek what to think but hope the dancers get the justice they're hoping for and that lizzo rethinks the way she does business... everyone can always do better and if their allegations are proven then i rly hope she rethinks a lot of her behaviours :/
This was very similar to my initial reaction to this too. Perhaps a little more critical of lizzo because of her history of being unreasonable towards other people (eg. The food delivery person she doxed on her celebrity social media account or the multiple times she seems to have gotten petty over the internet) But it was the slew of other dancers and a director claiming they also experienced this bad behaviour and now 6 more dancers also filing a suit that is giving me really strong ellen flashbacks. A lot of times, especially when youve been shamed and seen as less than for your whole life, a sudden rise of status and adoration can really mess with your head. It can sort of warp the way you perceive things. You may end up perpetrating behaviour similar to what you endured, towards others without realising it because you are above it now. Its not because they are bad people. Its not their intention to harm but it can be harmful none the less. My interpretation of lizzo's behaviour is the same. But then again, its only my reading, based on my own moral compass and experience and i could be entirely wrong. Havent really been a fan of her or ger music before this so there's nothing i can or want to do about this situation, so I'll just watch how it goes down from the sidelines
On the employment points it depends. It depends which state their contract is in, and if they were an employee vs a freelancer (employee would give them more protections, but a lot of states have an at-will employment law that means you can fire anyone for any reason, however there are exceptions to this such as firing someone for their disability/protected characteristic or as you say, whistleblowing)
love love love love!!! your channel! I feel like I haven't heard any conception of nuance whatsoever since graduating college. And I cannot state enough how happy it makes me that you mentioned the difference between plantiffs and prosecution/civil and criminal cases. The American legal system is complicated and even legal journalists don't always give an accurate portrayal of court proceedings.
As one of your “older” listeners…I really like your take on this culture. It’s a tougher world for pop artists & public figures in so many more ways these days. Love your choice of words & the way you put them together, excellent analysis! Subscribed
All of your videos make me think, "Why isn't he my best friend?" Edit: I should explain that comment. It's your insight, intelligence, well spoken, thoughtful, original way of explaining your topics, and expressing yourself. You are a bright spark of creativity, originality, and kindness, in this often dark and predictable world.
I just read the book, "Big Magic" by Liz Gilbert and you, Zach, embody the message of the book. Create for creation's sake, and people will pay attention no matter the type of art. These videos could seem "silly" or "superfluous" but they truly bring me joy and I love listening to you talk. That's a valuable form of art. Please keep creating!
In Florida… it’s a two party rule for private recording. You can record all day if it’s in a public space, period… like a restaurant, beach, club, street, or hotel pool/lobby; but if it was in a room or otherwise not public space: both parties must comply. So it depends on the state rules, and where EXACTLY the recordings were done. I imagine the plaintiffs know this and would only submit evidence that is validly collected in that state/country.
I absolutely could not disagree more about holding celebrities to a certain standard. No, I don’t think every artist should have to be an activist but regardless of what they do, they hold so much influence over society. Whether Lizzo wanted to or not, even if she kept her mouth shut about body positivity, she would still be an icon for that. Whether celebrities want to or not, they are role models. Saying they shouldn’t be or that they aren’t is just ignorant to what is actually going on with these parasocial relationships. That being said, we do not have a real relationship with these people so our support, of course, is going to be superficial. We do not know them, we only know what’s in the media and if something comes out that a celebrity could actually be an awful person and they no longer align with our values, it’s perfectly reasonable to no longer support them. But you will always have the die hard fans and the younglings who will either support them no matter what or not be able to fully grasp what these allegations mean and the consequences of them. Bottom line is, there are so many people who are talented and so many people who want to be as successful as Lizzo or any other artist. Celebrities are reflections of our values and what we find important in our society and we really don’t need to keep making assholes famous. Giving someone so much power and influence is only ever going to cause trouble when they’re the type of person who is going to abuse that.
I really feel in this lawsuit the theme is going to be thay Lizo needs to realize the power she holds over people as a "pop star" and their boss. Even if folks seem to be ok with a situation, you have to take that into account. This is not just 10 friends going out for a night, they are employees.
The more I watch your videos and listen to your podcast, the happier I am that I support on Patreon. Your content is so well thought out and easy to digest. I have more thoughts but I’m going to wait patiently until I have actually watched this in full. But so far I 100% agree with your take, having gone through the lawsuit.
Came to the channel to fuel my Taylor Swift obsession, stayed for the intelligent pop culture content! Been binge watching the channel for a few days and I’m in love!!!
I don't like Lizzo's positivity brand and I knew it would backfire eventually. She has a temper, why pretend she's some sort of monk? That's why her music doesn't have layers, imo
Thank you for such a good discussion of the claims in the lawsuit and your nuanced take on what they mean. I read them when they came out and had a similar feeling about some of them. I definitely think that the Amsterdam club situation and the religious proselytizing from the dance leader were two of the stronger issues in the lawsuit. Things like that cross the line from a cordial work outing or sharing information with the group and instead become something inappropriate for coworkers. There’s nothing really wrong with those things outside the workplace and context of the management hierarchy, but I can see where this would be a lot of pressure to conform. I’ve certainly had uncomfortable work situations where they said something was not mandatory and yet, not going and being part of the group was very limiting for promotions and ongoing employment or even just being in on information because you weren’t as close to the manager or leads. I liked Lizzo but am not an uber fan. I think she’s done a lot of positive things with regard to her talent and message of body positivity. I think her dancers seem to have some valid claims, and I’ve seen a few other people (outside the lawsuit) come forward now to corroborate or share other information about the work culture that are not great. I hope that they are able to get some sort of good outcome from their lawsuit. And I hope maybe Lizzo can learn to have a bit more discretion about the activities she does with friends vs work people.
Thank you for being the voice of reason. I agree with everything you said. Whatever we put up with in society we could eventually be subject to ourselves. Allegations are not facts. Why is it that everyone thinks it’s absolutely impossible to lie about SA? People do horrible things on this earth and yet we act like there’s absolutely no way someone could lie or exaggerate any allegations?
i found your channel a few days ago from your swiftie secret sessions video and this channel is everything i never knew i needed! you have such a beautiful way of presenting information and i really enjoy your content. thank you!
Finally a video that is looking at both sides with what information we have. So happy you popped up on my feed, just subbed! I’m a really empathetic person and also a libra so i discussions for me are super important I need to see allll the sides before I feel like I can have a strong opinion
People shouldn’t have to be that ‘sincere’ in their support for artists. Fans spend money and time on these celebrities, if that celebrity has done something the fans don’t support, then the fans have the right to retract their support. People aren’t obliged to keep supporting bad people in real life. Mariah and Beyoncé have faced criticism for being divas, but that was back in the early 2000s. And there’s nothing specific we know about that leads people to think Beyoncé and Mariah create a toxic work environment. The reactions might explosive now because people relate to job insecurity and inappropriate bosses. The dancers are risking their future in the entertainment industry and also exposing themselves to more embarrassment by revealing these incidents. People want to protect the regular person as opposed to the celebrity, who has the power in these situations. Anybody can be a bad person, but we shouldn’t allow every bad person to keep thriving
Oh I love this! So I find it interesting that this has been politicized..I personally am a right-winger and I was shocked when I saw all the people on the right that I follow talk about this with the fatshaming and racial allegations as the title and the highlight..Like why is that what we're focusing on? It's really the weakest allegation and with sexual harassment and so on being on that same exact lawsuit..Like what's more important here? And the left having titles like lizzo was never as progressive as we wanted her to be. Like again, is that what we're focusing on? I really encourage everyone to be more individualstic and think on your own. And I think you did that so well in this video!! Very informative and I enjoyed watching it ♥️
I don’t really listen to Lizzo and no nothing about her outside of the obvious, but I really appreciate how you take an even handed approach to this story. And I continue to admire the way you speak about all these musicians and celebrities, in that whether they are being idolized or vilified, you come at it with empathy and reminders that they are fallible and complex just like anyone. I enjoyed this video simply for the way you approach the subject matter.
if Davis felt threatened and that she was being treated poorly, and that's what lead her to record the audio as proof, even if technically it's wrong, she was wronged first by Lizzo. So it's kind of an unfair situation to put her in and than say that she has no solid claim. It's definitely not black and white. But I mean I was shocked by how quickly everyone just hopped on the train and called her a villain from one second to the next without really researching anything for themselves. Like hello, anyone can say anything, why is everyone such sheep. And as far as pop stars and politics- I've been saying this since forever, the two should not mix, it's such a bunch of nonsense. If someone has all the qualities that make them a good pop star, it is extremely unlikely they have the qualities of a good politician/activist. They're two very very different things. It's just illogical for the two to become intertwined the way they have. (as a side note, I always got aggressive bully vibes from Lizzo, but I mean that's just my personal opinion and proves nothing, but I wasn't very shocked when all this came out)
Thank you for being balanced about this but also not letting lizzo off the hook. I do think the degree of vitriol headed towards lizzo is unnecessary, but also some of the behavior labeled in the suit sounds really cruel and a creates a pretty toxic work environment if true. I do hope lizzo checks herself and sees that even behavior like taking employees to strip clubs and things of that nature is incredibly unprofessional and inappropriate. Though that kind of behavior has been going on for decades in the music industry and is inappropriate regardless. Also fire that dance captain.
Ok being empowered about your sexuality and confident is great n all but eating a banana out of a performers genitals in front of employees you bullied into being there, who are an ocean away from home and there on your dollar and were reminded of this... yeah thats a huge ignorant abuse of power and I am disgusted. If lizzo is thoughtful enough to write good music, she's thoughtful enough to treat people with basic respect and if she can't be arsed I can't be arsed to listen to her.
Wow. This was incredibly well articulated and thoughtfully examined. I was starting to feel like it might be true. And while I would not be surprised that maybe Lizzo has a bigger ego than most, as that is also what helps fuel someone into the spotlight... I didn't think that for someone who talks so much about lifting others up would treat those that she works so closely with this way. I really appreciate your breakdown of your perspective of things, especially from a litigation stand point and through the context of crafting a legal case.
Hi you can be a perfectionist, exacting, whatever you wanna call it and not belittle professionals in the process. Making excuses for abuse by saying, “well we accept it from other stars” is a moot point. Just because abuse is tolerated by others, does not mean everyone is beholden to keep tolerating abuse.
I don’t agree with “diva culture” as a whole. Having pride in your work and having high standards have been confused with straight up assholism and that is weirdly accepted by many. Being a jerk to people in the guise of perfectionism is the biggest grift ever. I find that the people that are like this have the least amount of reasons to be like this. They are always tiny people with tiny minds that have massive insecurities that put themselves on a higher plain by making life hard on people that can’t stand up for themselves for fear of their livelihood, not by their legit talent and merits.
Can you make a video about how diva behaviour is allowed when someone is on top, but once they’re older or not as successful they get cancelled. JLo comes to mind, plus many actresses.
Love your educated in depth look at the situation. As far as the "Amsterdam situation" i think the REAL question here is, was this done during WORK hours, or was it a friend/social outting? And i think it's actually pretty easy to determine here... IF LIZZO WROTE OFF this outting as work expenses, they were work hours, and its a problem... If this outting was paid for with her own money or the excusers money, its a friends outting and it doesn't matter what happened 🤷♀️ Also, its Amsterdam lol, you know what to expect
Are you against all forms of proselytization or just of ideologies you do not like? Proselytization is not just limited in scope to religion; it also applies when attempting to convert people to ideologies or beliefs that are not necessarily considered religious. This kind of stuff happens all over the corporate world, and it really makes employees uncomfortable since the threat of their jobs is often used to try to forcibly convert them. I left my old job due to this and found a much better place with people that are a lot more fun and not so crazy dogmatic. The sticking point with me when people say they are against proselytization, is that I find that most people who make that claim are actually in favor of it, if it is a belief they agree with, but are dead set against it if it is a belief they do not like, which is incredibly hypocritical and dishonest.
Something that I think should be seriously taken into account is the fact that the law will never be on the side of the underdog, which I think is the root cause of this age of vigilanteism on the internet. There are many things to be said about this situation and many angles to be considered, we could spend YEARS exploring them, but I do believe that, in the world, especially in the US, the people who always come out on top are not the ones who deserve justice but rather the ones who have enough money and power to make a problem go away without the need to take accountability for their actions. The truth is, there is enough evidence to conclude that the workplace environment created by Lizzo as an employer is not an ideal one where the employees feel enough stability and security to the point where they might feel the need to record a meeting in the hopes that when a jury demands evidence there is even the slightest piece of it to back up a claim. Tee Noir in fact mentioned in a video she made about the situation that it’s plausible that these three people filed a lawsuit against a corporate giant knowing full well that they stood no chance of even taking it to court. There are definitely great points you make about the heat Lizzo is receiving because of what she represents in society, but already she holds a power that none of her employees will ever hold just based on how much she holds over their heads. Their livelihoods. I’m open to discuss this subject further but there’s only so much you can say in a comment section.
it's funny to me every time people react so strongly when a compliant is made, because that's just a complaint. there is no necessity for truth in a complaint. you can allege anything you want, there is no need for evidence. a complaint is not grounds for defamation. and the complaint is always made in the light most favorable to the plaintiff. until here is a decision, making any sort of judgment based on a complaint makes no sense.
I also think this happened to lizzo because her name and personality is bigger than her music. In simple yerms people know lizzo (the artist ) not the music. Beyonce, Ariana and Mariah had really very big hits in that people could even negate the diva behavior because the songs were too good.( not an excuse)
Always love your “news” coverage, as there’s no bullshit. You just cut straight to the point, and describe it through such a thoughtful analytical lens. It’s much needed in this hellscape!
While I agree that we shouldn't be idolizing celebrities and putting them on pedestals, many do it themselves. Lizzo's reputation is her own doing. Ellen's reputation was her own doing.
Uh oh. I just idolized Zack and put him on a pedestal .... 😳
And then he fell from the pedestal right down a rabbit hole?
@@allijohnson1228long story short it was a bad time
They might do it themselves BUT ppl keep ‘em up there too. The artist can’t be on top unless the fans get them there, no fans= no money and fame
@@FabiolaRVela oh, absolutely. But to lay the blame solely on fans ignores the fact that many of these celebrities champion themselves as these activists and role models.
Couldn't care about Lizzo less, but huge shout out to you for the "celebrities aren't politicians" message. The public needs to stop thinking that people who are good at some sort of art are here to save the world.
@chetsenior7253 no. nobody thinks politicians will save the world in the first place. but people do think artists/celebrities/stars will because idk, they are glamorous?
@chetsenior7253 that wasn't what I meant, but thanks for sharing ig.
@@randomfornowI think it's because celebrities have a big platform and people idolize them and will listen to them. Something like that. I don't think celebrities will save the world but they can do their part just like we can. It's a group goal.
Swiftologist back in his thoughtful pop culture discussion era
we are sooooooo back
I think that is wrong to bring your employees to a sex show and make anyone eat fruit out of anyone's orifices. I would think this was wrong if everyone involved was white, or thin, or accountants, or actors, or engineers. If Lizzo was a man there would be less questions about if this constitutes sexual harassment or not. If anyone pressured me to do anything in this type of setting I would also sue them.
Yes, this behavior is horrifying, it sounds like Lizzo enjoys violating her employees boundaries and abusing her power over them. If a man did this the sh*tstorm would be worse. I think weight shaming is bad of course but the s*x club stuff makes me even more uncomfortable, I tried to imagine if someone put me into this situation, sickening.
Even though I also think it is wrong I think we can still try to put ourselves in their shoes and how a situation would actually go down. I think it's wrong no matter who you are and what the context is BUT if it were a guy on a bucks night no one would really be batting an eye over it. Lizzo clearly tries to have fun outings and make I guess some sort of friendship with some of her employees, and that night wasn't work related, so in her eyes at the time she and I guess everyone who joined in with the chant just thought it was a fun cheeky night out with friends.. clearly Lizzo has a lot of growing and learning to do because there's a lot going on here that's wildly inappropriate, but we don't have to act like she's overall a terrible person because of a few examples like that.
One of my main takeaways right now is that that dance captain needs to be fired lmao.
Thanks for a thoughtful, empathetic analysis, you're a true journalist
I am so confused listening to this thunf
For me there were SO MANY people who came out in support of the dancers (including other dancers and people that have worked on other projects of Lizzo’s) in the suit that really made me give Lizzie some side eye…then her lawyer choice just sort of cemented that this is a pattern she is aware of.
same. it's really the award winning documentary director and Lizzo's boyfriend's ex that made me realize she's just not a good person.
I mean, I've been side eying Lizzo since she doxxed an innocent delivery driver years ago, so I wasn't surprised that she's horrible to work for.
Came to this channel for Taylor Swift and stayed for impressive mechanism of your brain that can analyse and dissect psychological complexities meticulously and yet so effortlessly.
same!!
Sometimes I feel like Zach is the only sane person on the internet lmao
I have LOVED your “mess reporting” this and last week. Your Ariana video is one of my favorites from you, and I love the easily digestible way you’ve broken everything down, and the awareness of the moment and conversation happening around these events. If I could subscribe twice, I would!
The swiftologist can never rest. I applaud you sir.
Discovered you for your TS coverage...staying for your diverse video topics and thoughtful discussions ;)
same!
My friend works at soho house and Lizzo had an event there and my friend said she was absolutely horrible to the staff and treated everyone like shit. I wanted to believe in her so bad
Our crowned “mess-reporter and kiki-haver” has spoken
he hath
I lovvveeee this seeing this channel grow so much. Your videos are always sooo well researched and thorough and engaging. Keep thriving Zach💙
I think people hounded about the body shaming because that make the better headline to bash her in the media.
I didn’t think much about that part I was more concerned about workplace safety, that is more concerning if correct than an off comment that may have or haven’t meant something. Dancers to a successful powerful star being in an environment which in they don’t feel safe should be the focus and what is appropriate for a pop star who works very closely with their dancers
Great video as per usual Zach! You always put things so eloquently! 💜
I try :)
Personally I would not want to be taken by my boss to see naked people dance. Whether it’s artistic or not, it’s inappropriate and puts people who are more reserved in a position for criticism and isolation by peers. Wonderful explanation of the events!
every single video i am in awe of ur intelligence. i LOVE the way you talk about things, i would listen to you talking about your groceries for 10 hours straight and not get bored one second of it.
Truth hurts (swiftologist version) :/
truer than you know
Wow this is my first time seeing your channel, I love how unbiased and thorough this is! As someone who didn’t know that much about lizzo this gave me everything I needed to know to understand
I appreciate your thoughtful, empathetic approach. Know the facts, avoid unnecessary judgment. I haven't been a Lizzo fan, and this was the first I have heard of the lawsuit. However, your in-depth explication was really fascinating. Brings up very big issues in our culture. Worth looking into. Thanks as always!
Just discovered you a week ago and I love your smart opinions. You obviously put a lot of thought into everything you have to say. Not to mention that I love your voice, intonation, clarity, and energy. Subscribed.
Great analysis as always, Zach! I definitely had mixed feelings when I heard the allegations & listened to the interviews the dancers gave on multiple platforms. I agree that the Amsterdam incident is probably the most damning. And Lizzo has posted videos of herself with large groups of people at strip clubs on her socials in the past so…
As far as the body shaming-there was one thing Lizzo allegedly said to one of the dancers that didn’t sit well. She apparently told the one of the women that dancers get fired all the time for gaining weight. I don’t know if that’s in the suit but it came up in interviews. Now if Lizzo were literally anyone else it would be easy to just say “Well that’s shitty but it’s also just how things operate.” So, I don’t know.
Thanks again for another great & timely video.
Another excellent video! I would love to hear what you think about what's going on with Doja Cat. If that isn't a topic for the Swiftologist then i don't know what it is 😊
great topic ... looking into it currently !!
Hey, i am currently watching this video and landed on this comment and was waiting for doja episodes @theswiftologist
Amazing video as always! I think it's so important to continue to question the standards to which we hold celebrities because I truly don't think most of the general public even realise they're doing it. Every single person I know has said and done bad things and put other people in uncomfortable positions and we would all have scandals if we were celebrities. That's not to say that Lizzo should be off the hook. I just think it's something we have to work to remember because the media makes no effort to remind us of it.
nobody is talking about it, but that intro slayed king.
have been seeing this mess go down and was waiting for your video and was not disappointed !!
New subscriber here. I’ve been binging your videos all week. Not only are you no bullshit and no nonsense (Scorpio energy ♏️), you say it in a compassionate way. You are so dialectical in your way of thinking and speaking and that’s SO rare. Thank you for seeing the world not in black and white, but in so many shades. You’re amazing and I can’t wait for your next video!!
I AM SO READY! I need the Swiftologist to lay it out and tell it like it is and tell the people what is WHAT! Because people are really trying to hide their heads in the sand on this one. But NOPE.
Seated and ready.
❤❤❤❤
Thank you for this video! Once again you are the voice of reason. Other creators’ coverage of this was either too critical or too lenient. You have a lot of compassion, and it still shows even when you are critical
As someone with an eye based disability, the thing that's most important in getting a recording accommodations is consent. It's very difficult to ask but its important for all parties involved.
The line for me in this situation was the Amsterdam and the workspace abuse to the dancers.
Zach doing his magic for us lazy people! Thanks for doing all the work so I can just lay in my bed and listen.
Thank you for the calm exposition - the media hysteria makes it so hard to figure out what's going on and what the various viewpoints actually are.
Great viewpoint of the situation! Thoughtfully critical as always.
Glad you think so!
you know i‘ve cooked a feast for this video. I‘m very ready, your videos are better than netflix
WE'RE SOOOOOO READY FOR YOUR HOTTAKE OF THIS MESS, SEATED KING 🖤
I really love all your well-researched explanations and your thoughtful critical analysis. It’s a beautiful balance of educated and empathetic.
Your videos are so researched and thoughtful. Loving them!
One thing I will say is that, agree or disagree with you, I always love how you present things and how diplomatic you are. You really have changed my mind in the past because of this and all the facts you have that I didn’t have when I came into the video.
Love your videos so much. Will always watch asap whenever you post.
as a hr girlie from the uk hearing employment law (or lack thereof lol) in the US is wild to me (if you're not happy with an employee's performance you would not push them to the brink of exhaustion, that's just setting them up to fail!) idek what to think but hope the dancers get the justice they're hoping for and that lizzo rethinks the way she does business... everyone can always do better and if their allegations are proven then i rly hope she rethinks a lot of her behaviours :/
Omg same that was my first thought as someone from New Zealand - the USA needs to sort out their employment laws.
@@fionashaw9097 Literally it's so wild what they can get away with there!
I was reading those lawsuits thinking "Jesus those guys need to put employee protection laws in. Why the fuck can someone get away with that?!"
This was very similar to my initial reaction to this too. Perhaps a little more critical of lizzo because of her history of being unreasonable towards other people (eg. The food delivery person she doxed on her celebrity social media account or the multiple times she seems to have gotten petty over the internet)
But it was the slew of other dancers and a director claiming they also experienced this bad behaviour and now 6 more dancers also filing a suit that is giving me really strong ellen flashbacks.
A lot of times, especially when youve been shamed and seen as less than for your whole life, a sudden rise of status and adoration can really mess with your head. It can sort of warp the way you perceive things. You may end up perpetrating behaviour similar to what you endured, towards others without realising it because you are above it now. Its not because they are bad people. Its not their intention to harm but it can be harmful none the less. My interpretation of lizzo's behaviour is the same. But then again, its only my reading, based on my own moral compass and experience and i could be entirely wrong.
Havent really been a fan of her or ger music before this so there's nothing i can or want to do about this situation, so I'll just watch how it goes down from the sidelines
On the employment points it depends. It depends which state their contract is in, and if they were an employee vs a freelancer (employee would give them more protections, but a lot of states have an at-will employment law that means you can fire anyone for any reason, however there are exceptions to this such as firing someone for their disability/protected characteristic or as you say, whistleblowing)
The only time ive heard anything about this and thought "i can trust this source". I get it now.
love love love love!!! your channel! I feel like I haven't heard any conception of nuance whatsoever since graduating college. And I cannot state enough how happy it makes me that you mentioned the difference between plantiffs and prosecution/civil and criminal cases. The American legal system is complicated and even legal journalists don't always give an accurate portrayal of court proceedings.
As one of your “older” listeners…I really like your take on this culture. It’s a tougher world for pop artists & public figures in so many more ways these days.
Love your choice of words & the way you put them together, excellent analysis!
Subscribed
All of your videos make me think, "Why isn't he my best friend?"
Edit: I should explain that comment.
It's your insight, intelligence, well spoken, thoughtful, original way of explaining your topics, and expressing yourself.
You are a bright spark of creativity, originality, and kindness, in this often dark and predictable world.
I just read the book, "Big Magic" by Liz Gilbert and you, Zach, embody the message of the book. Create for creation's sake, and people will pay attention no matter the type of art. These videos could seem "silly" or "superfluous" but they truly bring me joy and I love listening to you talk. That's a valuable form of art. Please keep creating!
omg I was dying to know your perspective on this situation 😭😭😭
In Florida… it’s a two party rule for private recording. You can record all day if it’s in a public space, period… like a restaurant, beach, club, street, or hotel pool/lobby; but if it was in a room or otherwise not public space: both parties must comply. So it depends on the state rules, and where EXACTLY the recordings were done. I imagine the plaintiffs know this and would only submit evidence that is validly collected in that state/country.
I absolutely could not disagree more about holding celebrities to a certain standard. No, I don’t think every artist should have to be an activist but regardless of what they do, they hold so much influence over society. Whether Lizzo wanted to or not, even if she kept her mouth shut about body positivity, she would still be an icon for that. Whether celebrities want to or not, they are role models. Saying they shouldn’t be or that they aren’t is just ignorant to what is actually going on with these parasocial relationships.
That being said, we do not have a real relationship with these people so our support, of course, is going to be superficial. We do not know them, we only know what’s in the media and if something comes out that a celebrity could actually be an awful person and they no longer align with our values, it’s perfectly reasonable to no longer support them. But you will always have the die hard fans and the younglings who will either support them no matter what or not be able to fully grasp what these allegations mean and the consequences of them.
Bottom line is, there are so many people who are talented and so many people who want to be as successful as Lizzo or any other artist. Celebrities are reflections of our values and what we find important in our society and we really don’t need to keep making assholes famous. Giving someone so much power and influence is only ever going to cause trouble when they’re the type of person who is going to abuse that.
OH I'M SEATED FOR THIS ONE
Love ur videos, ur so smart and thorough with your takes and I feel like you toe the middle ground with fairness and confidence
Thank you so much!
I really feel in this lawsuit the theme is going to be thay Lizo needs to realize the power she holds over people as a "pop star" and their boss. Even if folks seem to be ok with a situation, you have to take that into account. This is not just 10 friends going out for a night, they are employees.
Zach you are brilliant!! Thank you for changing my perspectives for the better 💜
The more I watch your videos and listen to your podcast, the happier I am that I support on Patreon. Your content is so well thought out and easy to digest.
I have more thoughts but I’m going to wait patiently until I have actually watched this in full. But so far I 100% agree with your take, having gone through the lawsuit.
Much appreciated!
Came to the channel to fuel my Taylor Swift obsession, stayed for the intelligent pop culture content! Been binge watching the channel for a few days and I’m in love!!!
Me too!!! His channel is so entertaining
You are so spot on. 100% agree with everything you said here. Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
I was WAITING for you to drop this
I don't like Lizzo's positivity brand and I knew it would backfire eventually. She has a temper, why pretend she's some sort of monk? That's why her music doesn't have layers, imo
Love your in depth analysis!!!! 🙏🏽 and your videos in general! 🧡🙌🏽
Glad you like them!
Your measured and eloquent commentary on this is really admirable. 😊
First time watching you, and I'm 15 seconds in all I've got to say is... I👏 love👏 your 👏energy 👏 I must keep watching 😂
Thank you, hope you’ll sub!!
Thank you for such a good discussion of the claims in the lawsuit and your nuanced take on what they mean. I read them when they came out and had a similar feeling about some of them.
I definitely think that the Amsterdam club situation and the religious proselytizing from the dance leader were two of the stronger issues in the lawsuit. Things like that cross the line from a cordial work outing or sharing information with the group and instead become something inappropriate for coworkers. There’s nothing really wrong with those things outside the workplace and context of the management hierarchy, but I can see where this would be a lot of pressure to conform. I’ve certainly had uncomfortable work situations where they said something was not mandatory and yet, not going and being part of the group was very limiting for promotions and ongoing employment or even just being in on information because you weren’t as close to the manager or leads.
I liked Lizzo but am not an uber fan. I think she’s done a lot of positive things with regard to her talent and message of body positivity. I think her dancers seem to have some valid claims, and I’ve seen a few other people (outside the lawsuit) come forward now to corroborate or share other information about the work culture that are not great. I hope that they are able to get some sort of good outcome from their lawsuit. And I hope maybe Lizzo can learn to have a bit more discretion about the activities she does with friends vs work people.
Thank you for being the voice of reason. I agree with everything you said. Whatever we put up with in society we could eventually be subject to ourselves. Allegations are not facts. Why is it that everyone thinks it’s absolutely impossible to lie about SA? People do horrible things on this earth and yet we act like there’s absolutely no way someone could lie or exaggerate any allegations?
I was hoping you would talk about this, excited to hear your take
i found your channel a few days ago from your swiftie secret sessions video and this channel is everything i never knew i needed! you have such a beautiful way of presenting information and i really enjoy your content. thank you!
I love you Zach!!!! Some of the best content on this app right now.
I love when I find a channel I enjoy this much and am this interested in, excited to see more now
Glad you enjoy it!
Finally a video that is looking at both sides with what information we have. So happy you popped up on my feed, just subbed! I’m a really empathetic person and also a libra so i discussions for me are super important I need to see allll the sides before I feel like I can have a strong opinion
My only fav pop culture swiftologist
LMAO
People shouldn’t have to be that ‘sincere’ in their support for artists. Fans spend money and time on these celebrities, if that celebrity has done something the fans don’t support, then the fans have the right to retract their support. People aren’t obliged to keep supporting bad people in real life. Mariah and Beyoncé have faced criticism for being divas, but that was back in the early 2000s. And there’s nothing specific we know about that leads people to think Beyoncé and Mariah create a toxic work environment. The reactions might explosive now because people relate to job insecurity and inappropriate bosses. The dancers are risking their future in the entertainment industry and also exposing themselves to more embarrassment by revealing these incidents. People want to protect the regular person as opposed to the celebrity, who has the power in these situations. Anybody can be a bad person, but we shouldn’t allow every bad person to keep thriving
Artists shouldn’t be paragons of morality 👏
Except Banksy.
Oh I love this! So I find it interesting that this has been politicized..I personally am a right-winger and I was shocked when I saw all the people on the right that I follow talk about this with the fatshaming and racial allegations as the title and the highlight..Like why is that what we're focusing on? It's really the weakest allegation and with sexual harassment and so on being on that same exact lawsuit..Like what's more important here? And the left having titles like lizzo was never as progressive as we wanted her to be. Like again, is that what we're focusing on? I really encourage everyone to be more individualstic and think on your own. And I think you did that so well in this video!! Very informative and I enjoyed watching it ♥️
I don’t really listen to Lizzo and no nothing about her outside of the obvious, but I really appreciate how you take an even handed approach to this story. And I continue to admire the way you speak about all these musicians and celebrities, in that whether they are being idolized or vilified, you come at it with empathy and reminders that they are fallible and complex just like anyone. I enjoyed this video simply for the way you approach the subject matter.
if Davis felt threatened and that she was being treated poorly, and that's what lead her to record the audio as proof, even if technically it's wrong, she was wronged first by Lizzo. So it's kind of an unfair situation to put her in and than say that she has no solid claim. It's definitely not black and white.
But I mean I was shocked by how quickly everyone just hopped on the train and called her a villain from one second to the next without really researching anything for themselves. Like hello, anyone can say anything, why is everyone such sheep.
And as far as pop stars and politics- I've been saying this since forever, the two should not mix, it's such a bunch of nonsense. If someone has all the qualities that make them a good pop star, it is extremely unlikely they have the qualities of a good politician/activist. They're two very very different things. It's just illogical for the two to become intertwined the way they have.
(as a side note, I always got aggressive bully vibes from Lizzo, but I mean that's just my personal opinion and proves nothing, but I wasn't very shocked when all this came out)
A video about demi lovato? Maybe her career, struggles and talent. Thank you🤍
I’d love a video on Demi too!!
Thank you for being balanced about this but also not letting lizzo off the hook. I do think the degree of vitriol headed towards lizzo is unnecessary, but also some of the behavior labeled in the suit sounds really cruel and a creates a pretty toxic work environment if true. I do hope lizzo checks herself and sees that even behavior like taking employees to strip clubs and things of that nature is incredibly unprofessional and inappropriate. Though that kind of behavior has been going on for decades in the music industry and is inappropriate regardless. Also fire that dance captain.
Ok being empowered about your sexuality and confident is great n all but eating a banana out of a performers genitals in front of employees you bullied into being there, who are an ocean away from home and there on your dollar and were reminded of this... yeah thats a huge ignorant abuse of power and I am disgusted.
If lizzo is thoughtful enough to write good music, she's thoughtful enough to treat people with basic respect and if she can't be arsed I can't be arsed to listen to her.
Wow. This was incredibly well articulated and thoughtfully examined. I was starting to feel like it might be true. And while I would not be surprised that maybe Lizzo has a bigger ego than most, as that is also what helps fuel someone into the spotlight... I didn't think that for someone who talks so much about lifting others up would treat those that she works so closely with this way. I really appreciate your breakdown of your perspective of things, especially from a litigation stand point and through the context of crafting a legal case.
OH I’M EXCITED FOR THIS ONE ZACH
Ariana Grande needs to send Lizzo a huge fruit basket for taking the heat off her!
You should do a Renaissance album Ranking. Love your videos
Zachary, this look?? ATE!
Hi you can be a perfectionist, exacting, whatever you wanna call it and not belittle professionals in the process. Making excuses for abuse by saying, “well we accept it from other stars” is a moot point. Just because abuse is tolerated by others, does not mean everyone is beholden to keep tolerating abuse.
He didnt say that as an excuse, he said it because its true
Great one, as always. Btw uhhhh, sun made your face GLOOOOW
I don’t agree with “diva culture” as a whole. Having pride in your work and having high standards have been confused with straight up assholism and that is weirdly accepted by many. Being a jerk to people in the guise of perfectionism is the biggest grift ever.
I find that the people that are like this have the least amount of reasons to be like this. They are always tiny people with tiny minds that have massive insecurities that put themselves on a higher plain by making life hard on people that can’t stand up for themselves for fear of their livelihood, not by their legit talent and merits.
Amazing vid as always!
Legend!
YOURE LITERALLY GLOWING OMFG
Can you make a video about how diva behaviour is allowed when someone is on top, but once they’re older or not as successful they get cancelled.
JLo comes to mind, plus many actresses.
As a history major, I really appreciated how you placed Lizzo’s career in political and historical context.
His analyses are always so well done fr
Indeed. That was honestly something fascinating to me.
There’s been people not in the lawsuit who have backed up the dancers claims
Excellent mess reporting Zach! Always enjoy your vids
I was hoping you would talk about this I need the tea delivered in a way that is palatable to me: piping hot from a gorge reporter 😊
Love your educated in depth look at the situation.
As far as the "Amsterdam situation" i think the REAL question here is, was this done during WORK hours, or was it a friend/social outting?
And i think it's actually pretty easy to determine here...
IF LIZZO WROTE OFF this outting as work expenses, they were work hours, and its a problem...
If this outting was paid for with her own money or the excusers money, its a friends outting and it doesn't matter what happened 🤷♀️
Also, its Amsterdam lol, you know what to expect
Are you against all forms of proselytization or just of ideologies you do not like? Proselytization is not just limited in scope to religion; it also applies when attempting to convert people to ideologies or beliefs that are not necessarily considered religious. This kind of stuff happens all over the corporate world, and it really makes employees uncomfortable since the threat of their jobs is often used to try to forcibly convert them. I left my old job due to this and found a much better place with people that are a lot more fun and not so crazy dogmatic.
The sticking point with me when people say they are against proselytization, is that I find that most people who make that claim are actually in favor of it, if it is a belief they agree with, but are dead set against it if it is a belief they do not like, which is incredibly hypocritical and dishonest.
Yes. Don’t put celebrities on pedestals. But also, don’t bully or intimidate your employees.
loooove this kind of videos, so excited for this one❤️
Something that I think should be seriously taken into account is the fact that the law will never be on the side of the underdog, which I think is the root cause of this age of vigilanteism on the internet. There are many things to be said about this situation and many angles to be considered, we could spend YEARS exploring them, but I do believe that, in the world, especially in the US, the people who always come out on top are not the ones who deserve justice but rather the ones who have enough money and power to make a problem go away without the need to take accountability for their actions. The truth is, there is enough evidence to conclude that the workplace environment created by Lizzo as an employer is not an ideal one where the employees feel enough stability and security to the point where they might feel the need to record a meeting in the hopes that when a jury demands evidence there is even the slightest piece of it to back up a claim. Tee Noir in fact mentioned in a video she made about the situation that it’s plausible that these three people filed a lawsuit against a corporate giant knowing full well that they stood no chance of even taking it to court. There are definitely great points you make about the heat Lizzo is receiving because of what she represents in society, but already she holds a power that none of her employees will ever hold just based on how much she holds over their heads. Their livelihoods. I’m open to discuss this subject further but there’s only so much you can say in a comment section.
it's funny to me every time people react so strongly when a compliant is made, because that's just a complaint. there is no necessity for truth in a complaint. you can allege anything you want, there is no need for evidence. a complaint is not grounds for defamation. and the complaint is always made in the light most favorable to the plaintiff. until here is a decision, making any sort of judgment based on a complaint makes no sense.
I also think this happened to lizzo because her name and personality is bigger than her music. In simple yerms people know lizzo (the artist ) not the music. Beyonce, Ariana and Mariah had really very big hits in that people could even negate the diva behavior because the songs were too good.( not an excuse)