@@chunkycornbread4773 well if you don’t like how your army is, just tear up the models and stick em together differently. They’ll look about as appropriate as the official ones
@@anarchy-authoritarianneo-t180 I’m still assembling the combat patrol box so right now it’s not about regretting what I have it’s trying to decide what route I want to go with future purchases. I get what your saying though.
@@BloodyArchangelus DG drones I don't know anything about the situation with them but raiders have always been a staple of dark eldar armies. DE without raiders totting all their infantry would be counter to their armies whole modus operandi
Leman Russes are a great unit to spam, as they can be in a spearhead unit, giving them objective secured, and whatever you need, there's a turret option for that.
I just do 11 demolishers. If they spam infantry, blast keyword and heavy bolterw do work. I just focus fire anything that is efficient tank killers at the beginning. Then win by attrition.
I follow the rule of 2: There is nothing in my army (Or any other army) that is so vital that I need to run more than 2 of it-UNLESS it’s a troop choice.
Listen man, I don't spam Carnifexes for any other reason other than they are the coolest unit in 40k, because they kinda suck competitively. But recreating that moment from the codex where the Tyrant sends 9 melee 'fexes at one enemy character is amazing
One comment regarding your “having at least some unit diversity is fun”, I play using battlescribe and going through so many different data sheets to find the one I need hurts my head (i.e. every Drukhari list ever) whereas playing a spammy list with very few units makes playing the game easier, makes my turn quicker, and overall makes me enjoy the game more. Ever since getting an imperial knight list, I’ve enjoyed the game so much more than my Drukhari / Aeldari / Tau
Skew lists are skew lists, its a good and competitive strategy where you pray the enemy brought an all-comers without enough of whatever they need to counter you. Just don't expect for your friends to enjoy the experience of losing/winning at the army list stage
I've never been so good at tracking down competitive lists from official events, but I do remember times when spam was just the way. When I started 40k, back in '03, I feel Guard were a middle force, and one that really benefited from fielding numbers of infantry. Tanks weren't 3/squad yet, so the strength of the vehicles wasn't what it is now, and Guard seemed to play like Orks, Nids, and other swarm armies of nameless masses...and then the edition changed. I'm not sure which, between 3rd and 9th, but lists changed. Tank squadrons became HS choices, and better ways to spend money. Squads of infantry disappeared, to be replaced by only Veteran squads with meltaguns/plasmaguns, and save cash on those boxes. HQs were only bare bones, and didn't REALLY contribute. The days of massive armies, and afternoon-long 2000-3000 pt games in the dorm basement passed away. After that, it basically was spam; spam whichever tank config would work for your likely enemy, the mandatory 2 squads of plasma or meltavets, probably some transports, MAYBE a Vendetta, and a bare-bones HQ; that was IG. It hasn't gotten much better? Eben videos here would seem to say that the majority of the codex is weak. Spend the most points on full-load Manticores, grab some Tank Ace Demolishers, probably make one the Tank Commander, grab the necessary infantry as shields, pick up an Astropath, if you want, and go. It feels like spam to me, or at least low-diversity. Something that might make a fun video; armies that are actually good to spend more money into. Maybe 40k shouldn't be pay-to-win, but who still benefits from buying that extra box, to really push up their model count, and win. As said, I remember when Guard were a dedicated horde army; one troop slot might have several infantry squads, a special weapon squad, and some heavy weapons teams under one platoon command squad, and you were rewarded for diversity and body count. Mist games were also usually annihilate, so you won or lost by body count,, instead if objectives and points (as much). Then it became "save money and time" 10-man Vet squads with special weapons, and make up for it with tanks. In 9th, do Orks, Tyranids, or others still really win via damage-absorbing blobs? Do Astra Militarum still work via hordes, or is their real power in Tank squads, and you just need some least bits necessary infantry squads to hold your own objectives?
Here's hoping Guard get a buff in the next codex. Something that makes massed lines of infantry better, such as the return of the platoons concept in some form. 9th edition seems to be all about giving armies mechanics that are unique to that army, that others don't get access to. Miracle dice, Power from Pain, Combat Doctrines, etc. If Guard got mechanics that gave them benefits from fielding large numbers of troops, that would be nice. Also, buffing various units and weapon choices that could use it.
Whilst Games Workshop's idea of balance is laughable, I do think that if a spammed unit starts winning tournaments consistently then it's a big red sign asking for it to be nerfed in the next CA.
This. Rule of three dropping ended a recon themed list I was working on with lots of Pathfinders during peak Commander spam. Was in no way a super competitive list.
Armoured Sentinel spam can be effective. 3 x Heavy Flamers + Chainsaws Great for rushing an objective, can still burn things they engage with. Cheap but tough to shift. Just your standard Multilaser is decent enough against light infantry. The have a strategem to half incoming damage that can be frustrating for an opponent.
🤣I just screwed by that big time the other day. Trying to take a squadron with 2 of those left in it off a point with a neutron laser and thought i was about to wipe the unit with just the one round of shooting with the onager. Rolled for 2 shots, had the Protector imperative so it was hits so it was hits on a 2 and both went through. Strength 12 vs 6, rolled a 1 but got to redo because of the skitarii marshell nearby so 2 wounds. AP-4 so they got no save. Then with the D3+3 got a 6 on both. Then he pulled the deft moves thing out on me grinning like a bloody Cheshire cat
The rule of three hurts armies with fewer options. For instance Tau being unable to spam any of their 4 Heavy Support options is far more limiting than Marines not being able to spam their 30 something options, many of which are just different flavours of the same thing anyways. (wrote this before it was mentioned in the video) Also feel that it should always be pointed out that the rule of three is a Band-Aid solution for GWs inability to write decent rules. It also makes having good Troops or Transport options very powerful.
I think it depends on theme. For my Iron Hands, Steel Confessors Space Marines (yeah, a mouthful) its very common to see a field of Terminators and Dreadnoughts with fewer primaris to speak of. Build your army around a theme and improve it as you go. Rule of cool trumps everything, so make sure its fun before anything else
Been a fan of the channel for a while. Refreshing to see 40k content where the host doesn't feel the need to reveal their face like all the others. True humility and admirable modesty.......................For God's sake man, show yourself!!!!!!
My biggest argument against spam is while you might have a lot of your best unit, you may eventually run into a scew list that totally walls your army. You need to be prepared against multiple threats
I think it just depends on what you want to achieve and why you play. For my money actually “winning” a game is secondary to the experience. I like to see an interesting, compelling army arrayed on the field and then have cool things happening on the way to either winning or losing the match. Spamming a superior sheet strikes me as boring and uninteresting, but if it makes you happy then more power to you!
Your army must win. You spent too much money and time to prepare it. It is psychology. Gw and gacha games use this mindset as one of the part of their business model.
@@BloodyArchangelus my army ALWAYS wins, because I have defined the win conditions. Whatever happens after I have my bad-ass space Vikings arrayed on the table and my wolf riding berserker-cavalry slams into the enemy or dies in a glorious attempt I’ve won.
@@benwhitnell You just lying for yourself. Human nature has not changed since ancient times. Once you would broke. Win condition is defining in rules. We dont have bronze medal in tabletop, only silver
In the early 2000's, it wasn't common to spam. The only exception were the odd player from time to time, who took winning too seriously; no matter the faction, they just used whatever cheese would get them more consistent wins.
This was a great video 👌 and very useful considering the state of 9th edition so far. Would you ever consider doing videos on "3 winning lists from Army X"? or similar? You've done some like that before, but it's usually a bunch of random lists.
Noah's Ark might be worth a mention. 2 of everything, so you can execute a battleplan on 2 flanks simultaneously, with maybe 1 unique block to either hold 1 flank, or the midfield.
Don't spam. It sucks from collecting standpoint (painting 5-10 models is one thing, but 20-30 can become a painful experience. And I'm not even talking about horde armies). It sucks from competitive standpoint in long-term, because gw will nerf anything to the ground sooner or later. Trust me, you don't want to wake up one day as an aggressors owner in a world with no aggressors double shooting. It might sort of suck from tactical standpoint because: 1) you can make mistakes with using keyword-associated stratagem by choosing the wrong unit to activate them 2) if your opponent is good at dealing with one unit, you are basically screwed 3) more you spam, higher the chance of overcommitting in one area while lacking in another. And being flexible is usually the most desirable thing.
I know it is spam but my 8th edition RW list was a ton of fun to play. It was sableclaw, talonmaster, 3 squadrons of 4 speeders each, 2 ven-dreads, and 1 darktalon. After the point change the 2 dreads were replaced with 2 invictor warsuits which left enough points to add in a nephilim. Now in 9th I'm mostly playing 1k games, so the list is talonmaster, 2 tornado squadrons (3), and 1 typhoon squadron (3).
For the Tau'Va, I found that spamming fire warriors can hold a decent amount of objectives. Then keeping 2-3 broadsides and a cold star can take out a lot of enemy units trying to take over and hold objectives. It's a little hard to balance out the shield drones since the 5-point nerf, I usually now just ignore the shield drones and just use all marker-light drones. also, 10 fire warriors are 90 points and can dish out 10-20 shots at Rapid-fire 1 at 30"-36" range (given the proper sept), 20-40 shots with a Fireblade. Treat the Fire warriors like cannon fodder: if one survives and is still on the objective, it is still points earned. I've won a couple matches like this, but my friend usually play AM so it's just usually a moving castle vs moving castle.
Changes to the meta/datasheet or FAQ can really hurt those that spam units. In general I try not to have more than 2 of the same unit unless they are troop choices.
In a tournament with timed games, switching to multiple datasheets can be a challenge and take up valuable time if you don't remember all of the profiles.
My current list is. UM. Chapter master. Master of sanctity. Tiguris. Two five man infiltrators. One eight man intercessor. A six man aggressor unit. With bolters and launchers. A redemtor with gattling. An three man inceptor squad. And two ATVs with melta. An three man eradicator squad and two five man hellblasters squads with assault variants. I play against a DG list with 3 of those mortar tanks. And a bunch of terminators. I haven’t been able to beat it yet but I’m keep to a balanced list. It’s thematic and fun.
I use and teach 'spam' lists only, as redundancy makes the game easy. This unit does X so (2 or) 3 of them do that in (2 or) 3 locations. If I take a 1k list and triple some units, the result is a 2k game without added complexity for me (more or less). Another point is playing on a budget: Getting CombatPatrols or Christmas sets multiple times gives you the same units.
Personal viewpoint is if it comes down to tournaments and competitions; anything goes. But just for general gameplay, spamming something makes it pretty clear the player is trying to either metagame or do something stupid. When unbound armies first became a thing, one relatively new customer to the store I played in bought 2,500 points of land raiders, and was subsequently furious when no one played him. (This was during the time they were impervious to pretty much anything below S8)
I have an army brewing that leans heavily into this, three maxed units of Squighogs, three Smashasquigs to go with that, three Killrigs with one ten man squads of BS Boyz in each, that's not the whole list obviously but there's the core
I definitely really feel the point of not wanting to lose one unit and entirely lose that capability from my list, Luke losing your one repuslor or redemptor. Now I often take things in pairs if I'm excited about them o increase the chance of using a fun unit.
Armies that have a lot of the same unit can look cool and thematic. Like Astra militarum with lots of Russes. But I prefer not to spam, just makes it more interesting for me, also more future proof. Units get better or worse all the time
In tournaments and serious games, a W is a W. But if you want to have fun, it's probably best to not play the most optimised crap vs your friends unless your friends are sweaty tryhards.
It is interesting to look at the spam vs balance concept. For the most part, the best way to win is to kill the enemy as quickly as possible. The enemy can't take/do objectives if they are dead. Pretty much so what drives the top lists. Durability will never be able to keep up with offensive capability almost by default. This is why the buggy list does so well. It hits like a tank and and is deceptively durable but individually the units aren't that tough. Death guard used to be at the top and dark angels are stupidly durable but they don't have the killing power/durability as a whole to take on admech/drukhari etc
It´s basically a "Doom Stack", a concept i´m most familiar from Total War Warhammer I + II, where you take the most powerful unit avaiable to your faction and just fill the entire army with it, or if not the most powerful, at least the most easiest to use. Advantage is that the army is fairly easy to use, but it can leave you vulnerable to armies in which a lot of units that counter yours are concentrated, though that happens rarely in campaigne, and in multiplay fights you cannot Doom stack due to the limited budget.
It’s hard not to spam when you are trying to rebuild an entire chapter of Salamanders… 20,000 points and climbing. What can I say, I just like painting green.
My local hobby shop thankes god when the rule of three came out. I'm a custodes player and spamming terminators and bikes made me an absolute shitter at my local shop.
There's the matter of cognitive load to consider. A list that spams units has the advantage of being very simple to run. You don't have to juggle multiple different datasheets - with their accompanying strengths, weaknesses, and stat lines - in your head at once. You know that each of the spammed units work exactly the same way. So you don't need to spend as much mental energy keeping them all straight. All you need to think about is what to do with them in the moment. When all you have is a hammer, you only need to think about which nails to hit. This not only makes it easier in a cognitive sense, but makes resolving turns faster. I've heard anecdotes from infantry-heavy Guard lists that, despite having so many units, don't spend all that much more time resolving their turns than other players. Simply because their force is made up of units that do basically the same thing. They know exactly what their units do, and so it's just a matter of moving them in a position to do it. Whereas a list made up of a variety of units may run out the clock simply figuring out how to best employ its forces. On the other hand, an army that takes little thought to run can be a little boring. You don't _GET_ the challenge of directing a varied force. So in the end, it might come down to the player's tolerance for cognitive load.
yeah, my sisters list consisting of a 20 brick of sisters with stormbolters, 3 msu squads, two of which using multi meltas, 5 seraphim, 10 zephyrim, paragon warsuits, 10 sacresants, morvenn vahl, hospitaller, canoness and palatine, dogmata, hospitaller, and castigator feels this. So many units doing their own thing makes it hard for me to do my turns quickly. if i just brought 2 castigators or 2 paragon warsuit squads and cut down on the diversity of my infantry i'd be a quicker player
Spam. I got annihilated by 6 cronos and 4 raiders + ravager as a Dark Angels Terminator spammer. Spam C'tan, spam mortar teams, spam hellblasters, spam dark lances. Each unit is a tool to fill a role, if you have a unit or two that can overwhelm everything your opponent throws at you by overwhelming amounts of the same thing, spam it.
The more dated the army the more reliant they are on spamming. While deathwing terminators may be the most efficient list, that is not the same as it being the 'only' efficient list. Pure daemons ultimately hinge off the 3++ chicken and spam keepers simply because thats possibly the only way to play the faction with any chance of of doing something to a stronger faction. The stronger the faction the more freedom and flexibility you have in playing it.
It's easier for me to remember fewer datasheets. When I have 6+ different units each with their own special rules and weapons I forget half of those rules as I play. Only remember it after game thinking "damn I could use that, too bad I forgot about it". So that's why I prefer to spam same thing. I have much better time playing semi-elite army with as much as possible of same units.
You know what I would predict? If games workshop released 10th edition I'm gonna predict that they release a new codex and then nerf the crap out of spam units by giving it a keyword (or some type of rules) similar to core keyword. For example they give a keyword to certains units like example dreadnoughts and their keyword is called ''Walker'' keyword and since it says its a walker that means you cant have more than 3 Walker units, whish mean you cant have like 3 redemptors and 3 regular dreadnoughts, only max 3 dreadnought units. The only units that you can still spam are probably Troops. Thats just my prediction.
@@DracoTheBlack why lol? aggressors - nerfed. Repulsor exe- nerfed. Iron hands in 8 ? - errated. Gw loves sales in 40k, not marines. ( while in fb -scavens) i can continue list of nerfs for sm, but i am lazy
How would the Damage against 6 Lemon Russ Tanks be if 30 Dark Angels Hellblasters shoot them with Assult Plasma? 90shots, 2 to hit, re-roll to hit from Arzael, overheating and +1 to wound from Litany(strength 8 with +1 to wound? Or S9?) , re-roll to wound from Liutanant, WoTDA, so a max of 180Damage. No Armour Save unless there is some buff I don't know of. (might have some way for invulnerable save tho) Thoughts mister Auspex? :)
The problem there is that an incentive exists to make expensive models OP, driving multiple sales with the people who spam. Your statement of 'make the most out of the miniatures that you have' doesn't make sense when you've already told people to spam it. Unless people enter the hobby buying 3 Plagueburst Crawlers?
I don't spam, but that's less a gameplay choice and more 'I don't want to paint 3x of the same thing'. Plus I only play patrol games where spam may leave a dangerous gap in coverage versus specific enemies.
I find spam acceptable, but only in an army from which you KNOW spam to happen. If you know your opponent plays a pure harlequin army, then yes of course I expect tons of troupes, or a Slaanesh-daemon only army then of course I assume you take keeper of secrets gallore. But take an army like Necrons, and my opponent plays like 120 warriors, then yeah, I'm not gonna be that amused.
I try to always consider two aspects redundancy and synergy. Some units combined are better than three units of the same sort. And then there is the rule of two one is none two is one. Oh I forgot the most important rule the rule of cool...
I get why some competitive players spam it but It's pretty boring, look how hard it was to buy a squigbuggy recently because there's people out there that will spam 9 in a list
Bruh I'd only spam because the idea of tossing 40 dice to represent the vollies of minigun fire spat out by a hoard of redemptors led by a captain for re-roll 1's sounds goofy but fun as hell
I think if it’s competitive you shouldn’t spam however if it’s a friendly game and you have a BackstoryAs to why you haveSix devastator squads it might be fun to field it
That's why I like playing Orks so much. Whether you spam a unit or not, it always makes 100% thematic sense.
Orks don’t care we just do it for the Waaaagh
Trying to build an ork army right now and I have no idea what direction to take it in.
@@chunkycornbread4773 well if you don’t like how your army is, just tear up the models and stick em together differently. They’ll look about as appropriate as the official ones
@@anarchy-authoritarianneo-t180 I’m still assembling the combat patrol box so right now it’s not about regretting what I have it’s trying to decide what route I want to go with future purchases. I get what your saying though.
@@chunkycornbread4773 BOYZ
In game terms you often want to spam, but don't foget, nerfing one datasheet can make your collection useless if you build to spam.
*looks at tabletop simulator nervously*
Yeah you right
That's why you just get 3 of every non troop model and bam don't worry about it.
i have found that in 9e currently spam is no longer as viable as it used to be and makes hard counters more likely to happen.
@@dominuslogik484 You just playing for wrong factions. Gw had to ERRATA some spams for sales. but raiders and DG drones still exist
@@BloodyArchangelus DG drones I don't know anything about the situation with them but raiders have always been a staple of dark eldar armies. DE without raiders totting all their infantry would be counter to their armies whole modus operandi
Unless I'm playing combat patrols, I generally go by the old survivalist/prepper rule: two is one, and one is none.
This. Basically any single unit can be deleted if your opponent really wants it to happen so some level of redundancy is necessary.
Unless we talk characters or C'tan yes
Leman Russes are a great unit to spam, as they can be in a spearhead unit, giving them objective secured, and whatever you need, there's a turret option for that.
I just do 11 demolishers. If they spam infantry, blast keyword and heavy bolterw do work.
I just focus fire anything that is efficient tank killers at the beginning. Then win by attrition.
@@travelbyfire8474 it'll change as we get new codexes and editions. My main point was they are adaptable to that, somewhat.
Until they get shot off the board turn 1 by anyone with any kind of armor piercing
I used to have a tank company army, how is that army now.
@@NANA-lq5md it can very wildly. I've never had a close game with them.
"But they look cool, though."
-My defense in buying too many
I got 3 redemtors when they were crap, now I look like a win at all costs guy
Sir, that’s 15 baneblades and this is a Wendy’s.
Looks at 20 deathwing terminators and my 3 redemptors list...
Easy to counter if you raise banners instead of waste shooting 😉
Da. Heh
Looks at my list of 11 leman russes...
@@travelbyfire8474 it's OK if the guard do it
@@travelbyfire8474 ::demolisher cannon intensifies::
I follow the rule of 2: There is nothing in my army (Or any other army) that is so vital that I need to run more than 2 of it-UNLESS it’s a troop choice.
These are words to live by if I've ever seen them
I respectfuly disegre
*drives away on a lemon russ with his 3 tank commander budys*
I'd agree if I didn't play harlequins, death jesters are just too fun to not run the third one.
And then there are scarabs.
Always 3 units of these little beetles. They win games.
You dont NEED to run triple Deathshroud Termies or triple PBC or Triple Volkitemptors. But things sure are fun when you do.
Listen man, I don't spam Carnifexes for any other reason other than they are the coolest unit in 40k, because they kinda suck competitively. But recreating that moment from the codex where the Tyrant sends 9 melee 'fexes at one enemy character is amazing
I respect this adherence to flavor.
As long as you are not spamming hive guard that is fine.
One is a target
Two is a strategy
Three is how you win
One comment regarding your “having at least some unit diversity is fun”, I play using battlescribe and going through so many different data sheets to find the one I need hurts my head (i.e. every Drukhari list ever) whereas playing a spammy list with very few units makes playing the game easier, makes my turn quicker, and overall makes me enjoy the game more. Ever since getting an imperial knight list, I’ve enjoyed the game so much more than my Drukhari / Aeldari / Tau
Skew lists are skew lists, its a good and competitive strategy where you pray the enemy brought an all-comers without enough of whatever they need to counter you.
Just don't expect for your friends to enjoy the experience of losing/winning at the army list stage
"Its unusual to see someone bring 3 maxed squads of Eradicators"
Laughs in salamander
I've never been so good at tracking down competitive lists from official events, but I do remember times when spam was just the way. When I started 40k, back in '03, I feel Guard were a middle force, and one that really benefited from fielding numbers of infantry. Tanks weren't 3/squad yet, so the strength of the vehicles wasn't what it is now, and Guard seemed to play like Orks, Nids, and other swarm armies of nameless masses...and then the edition changed. I'm not sure which, between 3rd and 9th, but lists changed. Tank squadrons became HS choices, and better ways to spend money. Squads of infantry disappeared, to be replaced by only Veteran squads with meltaguns/plasmaguns, and save cash on those boxes. HQs were only bare bones, and didn't REALLY contribute. The days of massive armies, and afternoon-long 2000-3000 pt games in the dorm basement passed away.
After that, it basically was spam; spam whichever tank config would work for your likely enemy, the mandatory 2 squads of plasma or meltavets, probably some transports, MAYBE a Vendetta, and a bare-bones HQ; that was IG.
It hasn't gotten much better? Eben videos here would seem to say that the majority of the codex is weak. Spend the most points on full-load Manticores, grab some Tank Ace Demolishers, probably make one the Tank Commander, grab the necessary infantry as shields, pick up an Astropath, if you want, and go. It feels like spam to me, or at least low-diversity.
Something that might make a fun video; armies that are actually good to spend more money into. Maybe 40k shouldn't be pay-to-win, but who still benefits from buying that extra box, to really push up their model count, and win. As said, I remember when Guard were a dedicated horde army; one troop slot might have several infantry squads, a special weapon squad, and some heavy weapons teams under one platoon command squad, and you were rewarded for diversity and body count. Mist games were also usually annihilate, so you won or lost by body count,, instead if objectives and points (as much). Then it became "save money and time" 10-man Vet squads with special weapons, and make up for it with tanks. In 9th, do Orks, Tyranids, or others still really win via damage-absorbing blobs? Do Astra Militarum still work via hordes, or is their real power in Tank squads, and you just need some least bits necessary infantry squads to hold your own objectives?
Here's hoping Guard get a buff in the next codex. Something that makes massed lines of infantry better, such as the return of the platoons concept in some form. 9th edition seems to be all about giving armies mechanics that are unique to that army, that others don't get access to. Miracle dice, Power from Pain, Combat Doctrines, etc. If Guard got mechanics that gave them benefits from fielding large numbers of troops, that would be nice.
Also, buffing various units and weapon choices that could use it.
Its a fine line between spam and a theme. I love the idea of, for example, a fully mechanised guard army.
What about my fully terminator (36) terminator Deathwing army? Is it a theme list or a power play?
@@KampferNL id love to face it! but if you're claiming it for lore reasons the company also has to have land raiders as per the company organisation.
I never spam if only because i feel like thats boring to play / play against. Also i dont like buy multiple versions of the same unit
This. Except troops. Some troops are just fun to bring. *cough*necronwarriorblobs*cough*
*me who plays/played with 90+ boyz*
youz has dis-ree-spek-ted me, my know-whats, and my entire kultur
Whilst Games Workshop's idea of balance is laughable, I do think that if a spammed unit starts winning tournaments consistently then it's a big red sign asking for it to be nerfed in the next CA.
It would destroy meta and people would be pissed. But gw would do that anyway- people would buy models, coz you can not leave hobby. Xd
@@BloodyArchangelus I will argue that a meta with spammed units deserve to be destroyed.
Don't see why GW should preserve a meta with 8 Dark talons
@@gustavotriqui we still have rule of three.
@@gustavotriqui *non-fluffy spammed units.
Theme based armies often spam for the story, instead of the glory. 😅
This. Rule of three dropping ended a recon themed list I was working on with lots of Pathfinders during peak Commander spam. Was in no way a super competitive list.
What do you mean my 18 mek guns and 120 grots with grots tanks and lead by Makari won't win??
@@jag1460 that's because you forgot the killa kans
*laughs in 18 guard squads*
I match your 18 guard squads and raise 12 conscript blobs!
@@TheRunningPigeon "'Perial gits taste like spam ta me!" ~Gobstoppa da Evalastin', Warboss uv da Evalastin' WAAAGH!
You can get away with spamming Leman Russes if you successfully block charges with infantry squads.
The way of the Imperial guard.
If looking at your models and wondering if you should spam, remember this:
SPAce Marines.
*laughs in imperial guard*
Armoured Sentinel spam can be effective.
3 x Heavy Flamers + Chainsaws
Great for rushing an objective, can still burn things they engage with. Cheap but tough to shift.
Just your standard Multilaser is decent enough against light infantry.
The have a strategem to half incoming damage that can be frustrating for an opponent.
🤣I just screwed by that big time the other day. Trying to take a squadron with 2 of those left in it off a point with a neutron laser and thought i was about to wipe the unit with just the one round of shooting with the onager. Rolled for 2 shots, had the Protector imperative so it was hits so it was hits on a 2 and both went through. Strength 12 vs 6, rolled a 1 but got to redo because of the skitarii marshell nearby so 2 wounds. AP-4 so they got no save. Then with the D3+3 got a 6 on both. Then he pulled the deft moves thing out on me grinning like a bloody Cheshire cat
If I like it I might spam it, whether it’s good or a detriment. Always bringing dual pistol vanguard vets regardless of what I’m facing.
The rule of three hurts armies with fewer options. For instance Tau being unable to spam any of their 4 Heavy Support options is far more limiting than Marines not being able to spam their 30 something options, many of which are just different flavours of the same thing anyways. (wrote this before it was mentioned in the video)
Also feel that it should always be pointed out that the rule of three is a Band-Aid solution for GWs inability to write decent rules.
It also makes having good Troops or Transport options very powerful.
Every competitive format ever limits spam
Merry as an Ork player:
We've had 2 yes...what about Third Kill Rig.
Spamming models makes buying, building, painting, storing, transporting and playing all easier.
I think it depends on theme.
For my Iron Hands, Steel Confessors Space Marines (yeah, a mouthful) its very common to see a field of Terminators and Dreadnoughts with fewer primaris to speak of.
Build your army around a theme and improve it as you go. Rule of cool trumps everything, so make sure its fun before anything else
Been a fan of the channel for a while. Refreshing to see 40k content where the host doesn't feel the need to reveal their face like all the others. True humility and admirable modesty.......................For God's sake man, show yourself!!!!!!
My biggest argument against spam is while you might have a lot of your best unit, you may eventually run into a scew list that totally walls your army. You need to be prepared against multiple threats
I think it just depends on what you want to achieve and why you play. For my money actually “winning” a game is secondary to the experience. I like to see an interesting, compelling army arrayed on the field and then have cool things happening on the way to either winning or losing the match. Spamming a superior sheet strikes me as boring and uninteresting, but if it makes you happy then more power to you!
Your army must win. You spent too much money and time to prepare it. It is psychology. Gw and gacha games use this mindset as one of the part of their business model.
@@BloodyArchangelus thats why nobody with any form of self respect plays gacha games
@@BloodyArchangelus my army ALWAYS wins, because I have defined the win conditions. Whatever happens after I have my bad-ass space Vikings arrayed on the table and my wolf riding berserker-cavalry slams into the enemy or dies in a glorious attempt I’ve won.
@@benwhitnell You just lying for yourself. Human nature has not changed since ancient times. Once you would broke. Win condition is defining in rules. We dont have bronze medal in tabletop, only silver
@@fadeycouricjr6083 AHAHAHAHAHAH naive sweet summer child. Most normies play it now. Welcom to the shiny new world comrade.
In the early 2000's, it wasn't common to spam. The only exception were the odd player from time to time, who took winning too seriously; no matter the faction, they just used whatever cheese would get them more consistent wins.
This was a great video 👌 and very useful considering the state of 9th edition so far.
Would you ever consider doing videos on "3 winning lists from Army X"? or similar? You've done some like that before, but it's usually a bunch of random lists.
Noah's Ark might be worth a mention. 2 of everything, so you can execute a battleplan on 2 flanks simultaneously, with maybe 1 unique block to either hold 1 flank, or the midfield.
Rule of three for tourney stuff, rule of two for fun games
Don't spam.
It sucks from collecting standpoint (painting 5-10 models is one thing, but 20-30 can become a painful experience. And I'm not even talking about horde armies).
It sucks from competitive standpoint in long-term, because gw will nerf anything to the ground sooner or later. Trust me, you don't want to wake up one day as an aggressors owner in a world with no aggressors double shooting.
It might sort of suck from tactical standpoint because:
1) you can make mistakes with using keyword-associated stratagem by choosing the wrong unit to activate them
2) if your opponent is good at dealing with one unit, you are basically screwed
3) more you spam, higher the chance of overcommitting in one area while lacking in another. And being flexible is usually the most desirable thing.
Some of us spam units for a fun list, regardless if its absolute rubbish or op amazing
3 contemptors and a tallyman is never wrong :D the tears of my enemy taste soooo goooood
I know it is spam but my 8th edition RW list was a ton of fun to play. It was sableclaw, talonmaster, 3 squadrons of 4 speeders each, 2 ven-dreads, and 1 darktalon. After the point change the 2 dreads were replaced with 2 invictor warsuits which left enough points to add in a nephilim. Now in 9th I'm mostly playing 1k games, so the list is talonmaster, 2 tornado squadrons (3), and 1 typhoon squadron (3).
Take a look at competitive forums and you realise fun isn't a priority.
For the Tau'Va, I found that spamming fire warriors can hold a decent amount of objectives. Then keeping 2-3 broadsides and a cold star can take out a lot of enemy units trying to take over and hold objectives. It's a little hard to balance out the shield drones since the 5-point nerf, I usually now just ignore the shield drones and just use all marker-light drones.
also, 10 fire warriors are 90 points and can dish out 10-20 shots at Rapid-fire 1 at 30"-36" range (given the proper sept), 20-40 shots with a Fireblade.
Treat the Fire warriors like cannon fodder: if one survives and is still on the objective, it is still points earned.
I've won a couple matches like this, but my friend usually play AM so it's just usually a moving castle vs moving castle.
Changes to the meta/datasheet or FAQ can really hurt those that spam units. In general I try not to have more than 2 of the same unit unless they are troop choices.
Ah yes, my 16 basilisks with a tank commander, nothing to see here.
In a tournament with timed games, switching to multiple datasheets can be a challenge and take up valuable time if you don't remember all of the profiles.
I'm going with a rule of Two units with my army.
Except it's Necrons so that means two units of twenty Warriors and two units of ten Immortals.
My current list is. UM. Chapter master. Master of sanctity. Tiguris. Two five man infiltrators. One eight man intercessor. A six man aggressor unit. With bolters and launchers. A redemtor with gattling. An three man inceptor squad. And two ATVs with melta. An three man eradicator squad and two five man hellblasters squads with assault variants. I play against a DG list with 3 of those mortar tanks. And a bunch of terminators. I haven’t been able to beat it yet but I’m keep to a balanced list. It’s thematic and fun.
I want all the ATVs in the world
I'm bringing 200 Boyz and you can't stop me
Unless you're Deathwatch; and then it's Killteams for Days.
"In-dreadnought codex options" really speaks to me.
I use and teach 'spam' lists only, as redundancy makes the game easy. This unit does X so (2 or) 3 of them do that in (2 or) 3 locations. If I take a 1k list and triple some units, the result is a 2k game without added complexity for me (more or less).
Another point is playing on a budget: Getting CombatPatrols or Christmas sets multiple times gives you the same units.
Spacemarine tac sqaud spam looks cool
Your channel is fun, thank you
Personal viewpoint is if it comes down to tournaments and competitions; anything goes.
But just for general gameplay, spamming something makes it pretty clear the player is trying to either metagame or do something stupid.
When unbound armies first became a thing, one relatively new customer to the store I played in bought 2,500 points of land raiders, and was subsequently furious when no one played him. (This was during the time they were impervious to pretty much anything below S8)
I have an army brewing that leans heavily into this, three maxed units of Squighogs, three Smashasquigs to go with that, three Killrigs with one ten man squads of BS Boyz in each, that's not the whole list obviously but there's the core
I definitely really feel the point of not wanting to lose one unit and entirely lose that capability from my list, Luke losing your one repuslor or redemptor. Now I often take things in pairs if I'm excited about them o increase the chance of using a fun unit.
@auspex: I would love to hear your take on a competetive Tau list, and comments on the relic rule with only 1 commander per detach.
The guy that showed up at my local shop with 1000pts of Canoptek Scarabs is a SOAB.
I think there's only really one or two units I'd love to spam as a Space Wolves player. Wolfguard Terminators and Thunderwolf cav, that would be fun.
I’ve never played 40k but this is cool
I try to have a unit that will take advantage of the doctrines every turn, if I go all in for one unit it would make me less effective in other turns.
Armies that have a lot of the same unit can look cool and thematic. Like Astra militarum with lots of Russes. But I prefer not to spam, just makes it more interesting for me, also more future proof. Units get better or worse all the time
In tournaments and serious games, a W is a W. But if you want to have fun, it's probably best to not play the most optimised crap vs your friends unless your friends are sweaty tryhards.
"'Perial gits taste like spam ta me!" ~Gobstoppa da Evalastin', Warboss uv da Evalastin' WAAAGH!
It is interesting to look at the spam vs balance concept. For the most part, the best way to win is to kill the enemy as quickly as possible. The enemy can't take/do objectives if they are dead. Pretty much so what drives the top lists. Durability will never be able to keep up with offensive capability almost by default. This is why the buggy list does so well. It hits like a tank and and is deceptively durable but individually the units aren't that tough. Death guard used to be at the top and dark angels are stupidly durable but they don't have the killing power/durability as a whole to take on admech/drukhari etc
It´s basically a "Doom Stack", a concept i´m most familiar from Total War Warhammer I + II, where you take the most powerful unit avaiable to your faction and just fill the entire army with it, or if not the most powerful, at least the most easiest to use.
Advantage is that the army is fairly easy to use, but it can leave you vulnerable to armies in which a lot of units that counter yours are concentrated, though that happens rarely in campaigne, and in multiplay fights you cannot Doom stack due to the limited budget.
Doomstacking is just compiling all your forces in a grand strategy game into one single army, to crush whatever attacks you?
I always build some redundancy into my lists, especially in the heavy support slot.
Spam and eggs over rice is pretty good. I'd always bring three if possible.
Its not spam.... its a theme army.
Take GK strikes and ndks , or take fewer of those but take the bad stuff.
It’s hard not to spam when you are trying to rebuild an entire chapter of Salamanders… 20,000 points and climbing. What can I say, I just like painting green.
Ah yes ork player in denial.
Lovely Spam! Wonderful Spam!
My local hobby shop thankes god when the rule of three came out. I'm a custodes player and spamming terminators and bikes made me an absolute shitter at my local shop.
I personally like spamming when it looks cool or has some silly effects on the field. For example, three Mutaliths dropping powers at random.
i build lists around fluff and what looks cool but this stuff is still really interesting
There's the matter of cognitive load to consider. A list that spams units has the advantage of being very simple to run. You don't have to juggle multiple different datasheets - with their accompanying strengths, weaknesses, and stat lines - in your head at once. You know that each of the spammed units work exactly the same way. So you don't need to spend as much mental energy keeping them all straight. All you need to think about is what to do with them in the moment. When all you have is a hammer, you only need to think about which nails to hit.
This not only makes it easier in a cognitive sense, but makes resolving turns faster. I've heard anecdotes from infantry-heavy Guard lists that, despite having so many units, don't spend all that much more time resolving their turns than other players. Simply because their force is made up of units that do basically the same thing. They know exactly what their units do, and so it's just a matter of moving them in a position to do it. Whereas a list made up of a variety of units may run out the clock simply figuring out how to best employ its forces.
On the other hand, an army that takes little thought to run can be a little boring. You don't _GET_ the challenge of directing a varied force. So in the end, it might come down to the player's tolerance for cognitive load.
yeah, my sisters list consisting of a 20 brick of sisters with stormbolters, 3 msu squads, two of which using multi meltas, 5 seraphim, 10 zephyrim, paragon warsuits, 10 sacresants, morvenn vahl, hospitaller, canoness and palatine, dogmata, hospitaller, and castigator feels this.
So many units doing their own thing makes it hard for me to do my turns quickly. if i just brought 2 castigators or 2 paragon warsuit squads and cut down on the diversity of my infantry i'd be a quicker player
Dude in my local event killed everyone via eradicator, contemptor and redemptor Dreadnought spam in every one of his lists
Spam. I got annihilated by 6 cronos and 4 raiders + ravager as a Dark Angels Terminator spammer. Spam C'tan, spam mortar teams, spam hellblasters, spam dark lances. Each unit is a tool to fill a role, if you have a unit or two that can overwhelm everything your opponent throws at you by overwhelming amounts of the same thing, spam it.
I currently have 4 units of crisis suits and only plan on getting mroe
The more dated the army the more reliant they are on spamming. While deathwing terminators may be the most efficient list, that is not the same as it being the 'only' efficient list. Pure daemons ultimately hinge off the 3++ chicken and spam keepers simply because thats possibly the only way to play the faction with any chance of of doing something to a stronger faction. The stronger the faction the more freedom and flexibility you have in playing it.
It's easier for me to remember fewer datasheets. When I have 6+ different units each with their own special rules and weapons I forget half of those rules as I play. Only remember it after game thinking "damn I could use that, too bad I forgot about it". So that's why I prefer to spam same thing. I have much better time playing semi-elite army with as much as possible of same units.
It’s tough not to spam when your favourite models have the best rules
You know what I would predict? If games workshop released 10th edition I'm gonna predict that they release a new codex and then nerf the crap out of spam units by giving it a keyword (or some type of rules) similar to core keyword. For example they give a keyword to certains units like example dreadnoughts and their keyword is called ''Walker'' keyword and since it says its a walker that means you cant have more than 3 Walker units, whish mean you cant have like 3 redemptors and 3 regular dreadnoughts, only max 3 dreadnought units. The only units that you can still spam are probably Troops. Thats just my prediction.
If they made them more unique - I am in.
Cries in blood Angel's all dreadnought list.
@@geoalpharius396 What can we do. Only spam...(
This would primarily hurt Marine players and thus will never actually happen.
@@DracoTheBlack why lol? aggressors - nerfed. Repulsor exe- nerfed. Iron hands in 8 ? - errated. Gw loves sales in 40k, not marines. ( while in fb -scavens) i can continue list of nerfs for sm, but i am lazy
Any chance of some more AOS content? 😀
How would the Damage against 6 Lemon Russ Tanks be if 30 Dark Angels Hellblasters shoot them with Assult Plasma?
90shots, 2 to hit, re-roll to hit from Arzael, overheating and +1 to wound from Litany(strength 8 with +1 to wound? Or S9?) , re-roll to wound from Liutanant, WoTDA, so a max of 180Damage. No Armour Save unless there is some buff I don't know of. (might have some way for invulnerable save tho)
Thoughts mister Auspex? :)
I like the occasional spam because funny
Coughs at my 6 ironstriders, 80 Skitarii and 16 Serberys Raiders
If the unit is powerfull spam it , its not your faulth that the balance is all over the place , make the most out of your miniatures that you have.
The problem there is that an incentive exists to make expensive models OP, driving multiple sales with the people who spam.
Your statement of 'make the most out of the miniatures that you have' doesn't make sense when you've already told people to spam it. Unless people enter the hobby buying 3 Plagueburst Crawlers?
I don't spam, but that's less a gameplay choice and more 'I don't want to paint 3x of the same thing'. Plus I only play patrol games where spam may leave a dangerous gap in coverage versus specific enemies.
I find spam acceptable, but only in an army from which you KNOW spam to happen. If you know your opponent plays a pure harlequin army, then yes of course I expect tons of troupes, or a Slaanesh-daemon only army then of course I assume you take keeper of secrets gallore. But take an army like Necrons, and my opponent plays like 120 warriors, then yeah, I'm not gonna be that amused.
13:37
nice
I try to always consider two aspects redundancy and synergy. Some units combined are better than three units of the same sort. And then there is the rule of two one is none two is one.
Oh I forgot the most important rule the rule of cool...
I get why some competitive players spam it but It's pretty boring, look how hard it was to buy a squigbuggy recently because there's people out there that will spam 9 in a list
I always build my armies with a purpose. If i NEED three to do what i plan to do.. I get three..
Boy, let me tell you, if you don't like spam
Never play against the imperial guard
Bruh I'd only spam because the idea of tossing 40 dice to represent the vollies of minigun fire spat out by a hoard of redemptors led by a captain for re-roll 1's sounds goofy but fun as hell
Haha 5 Nemesis Dreadknights go BRRRR
Godspeed enjoy before they inevitably nerf them
I love how this video ends at 1337
Spam em Hard or spam em ‘arder is the true question
Why yes i play 3 redemptors with a librarian with IH how could you tell?
I think if it’s competitive you shouldn’t spam however if it’s a friendly game and you have a BackstoryAs to why you haveSix devastator squads it might be fun to field it
WE PRAISE YOU OH MONOTONE LORD!