The whole concept of a "spec" car in a stock car racing series is the problem. I think Tony Stewart said it best when he was on Kenny Wallace's show a while back. He said quote "I don't think we should have got a sports car maker (Dallara) to design a stock car".
In my opinion the next gen car is virtually unfixable. It’s not just an aero package or a tire compound, it’s the wheel width, the hp nascar refuses to change, the gearbox, the diffuser, the overpowered brakes, the spec parts, etc. It needs the type of fundamental changes that are really only possible with a move to a new generation imo.
@@quickgenerichannelname3295 eh I think it’s not just the diffuser, the shifting and brakes really hurt the short tracks and road courses badly. Those aren’t fixable without wholesale changes.
The next gen was quite literally made in such a way that damn near every issue, no matter what it is, could be fixable... As long as the sanctioning body is actually willing to put the money into it. The core of the next gen is really just a three piece chassis and a common body. EVERYTHING else can be changed if NASCAR actually cared and wasn't just here to make money.
There's many issues but the chassis are way too rigid, that's the main one. These cars have also needed to be lighter for decades but NASCAR doesn't care.
I always thought the idea of "lighter" cup cars was stupid and not really possible given the characteristics of stock cars, then I saw just how much weight they cut out of the Garage 56 car while simultaneously adding so much new stuff to it.
@@jacobevenson8702 A lot of what made the G56 lighter came down to things that would be more expensive (either from time or money) to manufacture from either a complexity standpoint, or from a material cost standpoint. It's ultimately a single mfg having to make parts for literally of hundreds of cars per year, not even counting spares, which for most other racecars, and especially anything at a higher level, is unheard of. That and well, stock cars on ovals still have a lot of hits which can really only be addressed by having things that ultimately add weight. A lot of those considerations weren't really relevant to the G56, which allowed for further weight-cutting.
I think like Logano said, it’s a combination of everything. The big tires, the carbon fiber underbody, the rear diffuser, the lower hp. If we can get the rear splitter back and do some of the aforementioned changes above, then I think we could have a solid car all the way around (including in traffic and in dirty air) that would put on better races than we currently have.
@@budracing68 The racing was GREAT until they started lowering the horsepower. Just look back at 2014. The same era of car made 900hp and had wonderful racing.
Disclaimer: I am not an engineer, but IMO, the Next Gen car has fundamental handling issues because the chassis is too rigid. Ask anybody who has ever raced r/c cars - the cars with the most rigid chassis' handle like shit, the cars with more flexible cars are easier to drive and, if designed right, tougher. The Next Gen car has a flat floor and 3 clips that bolt together to complete the chassis. I'm sure I don't have to remind people of the rigidity of the back of the cars that came about in 2022 - they only fixed one part of the problem. You've probably heard many times from the drivers by now: "I had no warning it was going to spin" or "it was tight and then it snapped loose" or similar comments a hundred times over by now - that's the rigidity of the chassis 100%. A horsepower increase or a smaller tire would not fix anything, it would just be a bandaid fix. The diffuser + softer rear springs change the handling a lot too but so does the super wide and draggy front end. Those are smaller problems though compared to the chassis IMO. Lastly, the car is just too heavy. If there is any way they could knock 400 to 500 lbs off of this car, they should do it. It would help the dirty air dramatically.
A rigid chassis makes the cars handle better. The next gens currently drive way too good on short tracks and road courses and are easy to turn. A rigid structure makes a car turn better, if it flexed, you would have steering issues and less control. If you don't believe me, rollcages actually can improve the steering of the car by making it rigid which you can search. The previous generations (gen 6) handled poorly on short tracks and road courses, but thats what made them exciting and more skill based You mention drivers spinning because of the rigidity of the chassis, but that simply doesnt make sense. If that were true, there would be numerous spins on short tracks and road courses. But ever since the next gen, those are now nonexistant. Sudden spins happen on intermediate tracks where aero is the biggest factor. This is because any bump can still out the aero being produced by the underbody and cause it to slide. And once the next gen is slightly sideways, the diffuser does not generator much downforce. To further prove my point, drivers mention how when they tested the car with no diffuser, they were able to slide around and catch the car more easier the chassis itself is not as big of a factor as you think
Looking back at my knowledge of aero, its progressed a lot from where I was back in ~2019. The way I explained downforce in that old video was that by "removing air" from underneath the car, that's how to make downforce. Which was "true" to an extent with the Gen1-6 NASCAR vehicles. However as the Next-Gen has helped me better understand, that was only true because Gen1-6 vehicles underbodies were largely lift generators. The areas where you had a flat section (say the radiator pan) they actually were wanting to feed air to it to help generate downforce (curved splitters before they were banned). The smooth floor allows the air to increase in velocity and thus decrease in pressure. Adding to the negative lift (downforce) of the car. However all the trailing arms, engine components, transmission components, bumper bars, etc, created localized slow moving pockets of air that in collective created a huge lift problem under the car. This was best solved by simply not allowing air under the car. Thus why the front splitter were welded to the floor in our previous eras. My knowledge of diffusers, etc was all flawed from this mindset. Diffusers work for two reasons and these two reasons are two components of the same effect. #1 they decrease the pocket of slow moving air left in the cars wake, thus decreasing the negative effects of that wake. (downforce loss, drag, etc) #2 and most importantly they speed up the air coming out from under the car. This (as mentioned in the previous paragraph) decreases the pressure under the entire car, front to rear, and generates a lot of downforce. Overall I still don't think the diffuser alone is really a big deal, the issue is the flat floor in front of it. A great example of this is that when they removed the diffuser the aero issues of the car remained. (short track package this year doesn't even really have a "diffuser" anymore) The main thing the diffuser removal helped with was allowing the car to run at higher yaw angles (how sideways the car is mid corner) without stalling downforce as aggressively. Thus allowing the drivers to hustle the car and tires harder. (Diffusers tend to be very yaw angle sensitive). The main reason the NextGen has fixed the aero problems of the old Gen-6 car one intermediates are two fold. #1. The car is designed to keep its wake very narrow by keeping the air better attached to the car all the way to the rear end. Critically that rear end tapers much more than previous cars and is straight, rather than angled on one side. The NextGen's wake is much straighter and narrower behind the lead car vs. the Gen-6 where the wake was very wide (due to the cars overall triangular shape and wide rear end). This created a situation where visually the car in 2nd could be fully outside of the direct line of site wake of the front car (ie a lane up) but still getting severe aero issues because of the large scale, angled wake from the lead car. #2. The NextGen decreased the reliance on sideforce for lap time significantly. (this decrease plays a large part in the lap time decrease from previous cars despite similar overall downforce levels, see ARCA running times faster than cup at Dover) Sideforce was very wake and velocity sensitive. Think of it as a wing on the side of the car that was generating a force into the direction corner helping the cars stability. With that knowledge you could understand why in a giant wake of a gen-6, you could be fully out of the visual line of site for the wake, yet your sideforce was being critically effected and thus you were being slowed down. TLDR the car was very aero sensitive and threw a bigger wake than the current NG car. There are some stories from the garage that I've heard from the Gen-6 era that a car directly behind another car (in very specific circumstances) could actually be generating more "negative lift aka downforce" than when it was leading because of all the negative underbody and overbody elements (rear glass, etc) of the car for downforce creation. However ALL of this was negated by the loss of sideforce and thus even with more downforce than the lead car, they were still overall slower. Overall TLDR: So while the NG addressed the size of the wake and car's sideforce reliance, they simultaneously made directly following another car 10x worse because of the flat underfloor. I could absolutely have gaps in my knowledge, like I did back in the previous video, but hopefully the explanation is at least 70% true and will help everyone understand the car better. If anyone with more knowledge is around please feel free to correct sections of my statement below.
My take on how to fix the car is to let the teams test and bring back practice each weekend. Allow them to work on the car, let them massage the new body and add or remove parts, work on the engine or tuning All the teams get together with NASCAR and say 1 week we will test at a superspeedway, next month intermediate track, next month is short tracks, then follow up with road courses. If one team finds something that works everyone tries it so a more complete notebook can be formed. That way we can see what does and doesn't work. What we know works for the car are softer tires ex Bristol and New Hampshire race on the rain tire. So let's try that on other tracks in the dry or just a softer tire compound period.
Yep. They only tested the racing at the point where it was pretty much completed. They just had the one test mule for most of the development cycle. Action made a second one late in development, but traffic testing with only 2 cars for a series that races in large packs is stupid.
Well, for short tracks and road courses, NASCAR is already running a super-simplified version of the diffuser (it's so small, you forget it's actually on the car), and they already said they're not doing anymore aero changes for the time being, so...😐 Now you already know I want to add 80-100 HP to these cars lol, but not because I think it'll help the aero issues per se. But it'll allow for more off-throttle time in the corners (and therefore, more opportunity for lap time disparity), heavier braking, and a more even power-grip ratio. To go along with that, one change I would LOVE to see is the bump stops deleted and the ride height minimums tossed out the window. That way, they can not only run the diffuser as low as possible, but the splitter also. I don't think NASCAR anticipated teams squatting the rear end of the Gen-7 so much, and the rake of the car had to have an effect on the front downforce. With no ride height minimums, that should allow the rake to be more even and give the car some front downforce back. And maybe run a 6 to 7-inch spoiler to give the car a little more topside downforce? Idk.
They need to change alot of aero stuff like a bigger spoiler for instance that would help with the dirty air situation. I doubt they will change anything.
A really cheap option would be experimenting with ride-heights. Maybe if you get the splitter off the ground just enough you’ll lose a bit of downforce and mechanical grip will be important again. Richard Petty said years ago that stock car racing is better when it’s a mechanical grip game. That makes sense because obviously the lead car doesn’t affect the mechanical grip of the trailing car. This didn’t start with the ground effects of 03. It really started with coil-binding in 05 or 06. That’s when the teams figured out how to seal the front valance to the track. That’s when aero-blocking really took off. It’s obviously gotten progressively much worse since. The funny thing is that once the coil-binding started, the complaining about not being able to pass started and that coincides directly with the ratings decline. It’s really simple, gimmicks don’t work. The Gen 4 car was a good race car. They could pass. It put on good racing everywhere. As a result NASCAR gained popularity year after year. Once the cars struggled to pass each other, people stopped watching. All the playoffs and stage racing and other garbage won’t save a series where the cars can’t pass each other. It’s RACING. Make the racing good and people will watch. NASCAR since 06 has been the equivalent of a restaurant with great service, great scenery, good parking and below average food. You can dress it up all you want but you’ll lose business to a hole-in-the-wall steakhouse that has great food, which is basically what 90s NASCAR was. A bunch of rednecks with simple rules, and great racing.
Couldn’t have said it best! I’ll also add that another semi cheap option is to work with V8 Supercars in the offseason. They use the wind tunnel in Charlotte in December for BOP aero updates. For how similar the next gen and gen 3 Supercar look, it’s wild to see how different they race. They don’t allow bump drafting as a rule to pass but it’s incredible how well the trailing car can follow the leading car. They do have a diffuser but it’s as plastic as a street car and less performance driven all while having a traditional splitter. If nascar shared wind tunnel time and came up with ideas from that wind tunnel testing and tried something that wouldn’t completely break the bank like a regular splitter and tried different ride heights and setup combos (as you suggested) for a week at Phoenix, I would actually start to gain some faith. But it’s nascar and it’s not hard for them to block their own blessings.
The thing is this car is absolute peak on intermediate tracks some of the greatest racing we have ever seen on those tracks not to mention the parity is amazing but like the thing is I still think this car needs a bit more time to cook I don't think we need to instantly juts kick this car to the side like ASCAR did with the COT just when that car was getting really good they ditched it for the Gen 6 idk if NASCAR needs to go through that again what they need to do is take a good hard look in the mirror and admit defeat that this car is not as perfect as they think it is whe it wors it works but when it doesn't it really doesn't they need to actually address road courses and short tracks and not just slap band-aids on it the drivers the teams AND the manufacturers are literally all begging for more horespower and the drivers themselves are giving plenty of solutions for these cars so overall I personally think this sport is in a better place than it was 5 years ago but we still need to improve I hope NASCAR takes the lessons learned form this generation of car and improves on it in the next generation with that being said I can't wait for fans to be glazing the shit out of this car 5-10 years after its gone like every other generation of car
The problem in my eyes is the one size fits all formula. NASCAR wanted this car to be used at every style of track with no changes to the body or suspension and with all the variables in physics that every track has, it hasn't worked out well. Let the teams go back to having short track cars, speedway cars, and road course cars, bump the horsepower to 800 so the back end can at least break loose coming out of the turns, and just let the teams practice. Practice reveals so much about the track, the cars, the drivers and not having practice keeps everything in a box and I feel NASCAR has done this on purpose and it's gotta stop because we're almost at the point of no return
Its the same story. ever since 2007 nascar fans have been hating each car from the C.O.T to the Gen 6 car and now the Next-Gen. Theres gonna be a car that is similar to the gen 4 and is all around perfect but i'm pretty sure fans are gonna hate that one too, If it happens
When you have to rely on Goodyear to try and help your product, you are already admitting that you failed. Way too wide of tire which gives the car way too much grip, gear ratios where the drivers have to shift which absolutely has ruined short track racing, dirty air, and on and on and on. Just put the cup drivers in modified Xfinity series cars.
Two things 1. Overcomplicating 2. Refusing to admit A sequential shifter, wider tires, diffuser, powerful brakes, digital gauge display, putting the number to the front of the car, the playoffs & many more thing that there saw & really wanted, but they never asked “is that really necessary?” And never admitting and trying to stick it has been a problem for years, & if they don’t admit sooner or later, then we’re in for a long ride.
When Denny said (quote on quote) you get behind a car and loose all downforce, that's what happend (I think) with him and other drivers at Texas, battling Vs Chase turn 4 looses the car behind him.
IMO, the Brickyard showed that it's not just a power thing with Cup. Xfinity ran with probably one of the most-univerally disliked packages, and despite still having less power than Cup, still put on a much better show in the closing laps. I recall something about the balance of the car in dirty air being mentioned by one of the SHR drivers (I believe it was Cole Custer) mentioned how the car became more loose in dirty air, which is the opposite of what the Gen7 tends to do in dirty air. Which makes the question "how do we keep the balance from migrating too far rearwards in dirty air". Answer *might* be power though, thinking about it. Mostly because I expect it to push the setup window of the cars further rearward, both in terms of aero and mechanical setup. Now, if that means the front of the car ends up more or less sensitive would be to be seen. We'd probably need to cut the aero back then, if only so we don't kill people at Michigan or Pocono. Also tbh, I'd rather change up the rear diffuser (specifically at the entry of the outboard section; i really don't know why it kicks up and then back down at that specific point), but NASCAR seems done with aero changes, so...
It's such an easy fix, unrestrict the engines, take the tapered spacers back off, give these guys the 850-950hp they had in 2014, they could probably push over 1000hp out of these engines now a decade later. I promise you this would help so much, much faster straightaway speed, harder on the brakes in corners, the power needed to overcome dirty air, the power needed to actually wear these tires out, horsepower literally fixes EVERYTHING but it's the one area NASCAR fucking refuses to touch lmao
Sure, if all you want to see is cars going over 200mph at all the intermediate tracks. Let's say NASCAR wakes up one day and says, "we're taking the taper spacers off and the engines are completely unrestricted". Great, now the cars go 200+mph at Michigan, Pocono, Atlanta, Homestead, etc, AND THEY STILL CAN'T PASS! If all you want is speed, then sure, it's an easy fix. The problem is, you still have a spec car where everyone runs the same chassis, shocks, springs, gears, and so on. Increasing horsepower, by itself, won't fix the on track product in terms of cars being able to pass each other.
@@randallellison6421 we won’t know until we try, and I absolutely disagree with you, I think it’ll fix a lot, maybe not everything, but it certainly won’t hurt it lol, it can’t get much worse anyways. It’s 100% worth a shot and if you say otherwise you’re a NASCAR shill.
@Borchert97 what I'm saying is increasing the horsepower by itself will not rectify the issue with these cars! Yes, it could help, but there's also a good chance it could further harm the on track product as well, because the teams will still have a car that is essentially spec everywhere else! You need to give these teams more freedom WITH the added horsepower in order to tune the cars to the driver's liking. Unfortunately, NASCAR will never do that because they don't want to give the team the ability to do that! Let's face it, that is what this is really about, NASCAR wants to be able to control what the teams can and can not do to these cars! We have been slow rolling to this moment for 20+ years, and now we're seeing the effects of that movement!
the gen 6 for as good as it drove it was firmly stuck in 1979 mechanically. i like the independent rear suspension, transaxle, wider tires, we just need high aero and high horsepower. minimum 900.
I really appreciate hearing your thoughts on the car, so don't worry about the video being long. An I would very much like to hear a playoffs rant video, because I would enjoy ranting with you while watching 😂
I think another issue is the teams are in such a box and cant adjust or do anything to the cars to counteract the problem. Let the teams do more and lets see what the can come up with.
Power won’t change anything without corresponding tire width and aero changes. You nailed it. Good job pointing out the pointless width change in the tire. We’re running snowshoes where we need skates. The tires don’t get into the track anymore, they tend to float on top, and that only gets worse as downforce is removed, so those changes need to happen at the same time, but NASCAR has only tested one aspect at a time.
21:18 A fix that won't cost them any money would be to up the horsepower. Ford and Toyota said it would be easy to add 100 hp to the cars and many fans, mysepf included, believe it would fix the short track and road course problem. What I don't understand is why not try it. Clearly the current regs haven't brought a new OEM. Increasing the hp certainly won't hurt if they already can't bring a new OEM
Maybe an unpopular opinion but i have no problem with the diffuser, helps ALOT on road courses. Also hats off to Bobby Perice on his 1st Prairie Dirt Classic win last night.
the thing about the on-track time you're talking about is that, people forget the development time in the real world was halted quite badly due to the coronavirus. everything had to be done on simulations like cfd and stuff before the covid restrictions were lifted. it's also a culprit to why the car was so unsafe to begin with-- it wasn't tested in the real world often due to restrictions. now, that isn't the entire problem of the issue, which is probably the biggest worry about the whole conversation imo. i think nascar did NOT take many factors into account when making this car. if they did, they severely underestimated them. the stepped splitter & zero yaw in the car were HUGE achievements for this thing to get. unfortunately, other features of the car may or may not have had contribuing factors to its bad performances at slower, mechanical-heavy tracks. relying on an entire industry downsizing in every form because the sport lost 8 million viewers in its biggest race from 2013-2019 is another huge problem, too. yes, it makes sense for nascar to downsize as a result of that & it's a good call in a vaccum. however, when literally every facet of the game is being slashed to the point of detriment, you're going to see MASSIVE problems in critical areas like car development that may or may not have been taken account for by nascar.. which is something i referred to beforehand. i think it's time nascar bites the bullet, forgets the fact the sport is smaller in popularity, and hurt the wallet for the better good of everybody. that's probably the only way to fix this. in all honesty, i wish nascar would do that over this year's offseason for that reason. it just makes sense. there's so much more that i want to say that i also forgot about, so that shows how deep of a rut this debate is. i feel like nascar is gonna have to get some outside help from not only their own industry, but also feedback from the stock-car racing grassroots scene & the fia. literally every hand you could think of that could help solve this problem is one that you need to bring into the conversation because i don't think nascar can do that without that kind of consideration. it will take TOTAL collaboration & effort, all tirelessly no less, to right all the wrongs. to wrap this up, if nascar can't recognize that then they're fucking screwed.
Yes, they didn't test more than 2 cars until a few months until Daytona because there was a massive parts shortage at the end of 2021 into 2022. Every team was supposed to have 7 cars each, and I think RCR only had 4 total going into the 500. By the end of the year, I believe they had enough parts, but yeah, the transition into the Next-Gen was rough
The brakes package at short track and road courses also need to change to be smaller when everyone can stop fast nobody can pass on entry or dive bomb like we got with mtj and chase Elliot at the road courses with Gen 6 and then the short tracks were overall better then bc at least if you got a run off 4 into 1 you had a braking zone to have a chance
I think the 1.5 mile tracks are the best they have ever been, so no changes there. The superspeedways I think are really good right now. Each plate race has gotten better and better, so again, no changes. The short tracks and road courses are where the problem is at. And I think the problem is that these cars have too much rear grip. With the increased areo, wider tires, and shifting, these cars are planted to the track and I think it is what is hurting the racing. To fix this, Nascar needs to lower the grip and they can do it through 2 ways. The first option, is to change the tire, more specifically, make it thinner. I'm pretty sure they have messed with the compound before, but I don't think that will fix the issue because there is still the same amount of rubber touching the track. Thinner tires mean less rubber on track, meaning less grip. The second option is to increase the horsepower. I would say an increase to at least 750 hp, but I would love between 760-820 hp. More Hp, means more torque, which will hopefully exceed the tires' grip threshold, reducing rear grip and requiring more precise throttle control. Hopefully, it also would remove shifting. Now the problem is that this car was built for the tires that is currently has, so I don't think it would be possible to reduce the width of the tire without messing up racing elsewhere, or changing how the car handles. So that leaves us with option 2 as the only real fix. Yet Nascar has refused to even test this. They must think that higher horsepower will scare away other manufacturers, but the current ho numbers haven't brought anyone in, so why not just test it. If it doesn't work, at least you can say you tried, and you will just have to try and fix it for the Gen 8 car
What was fundamentally flawed was having just 3 drivers win 90% of the races each season during the Gen-6 era, or how a slightly bent fender could cause a tire rub that entirely ended a driver's day. Next-gen has issues but its a massive improvement in the sport's product. Fans will always hate on the product until we go back to the Gen-4, and even then people will start complaining again about dirty air and the cars being unsafe. It's an endless cycle that all motorsports see.
More horsepower, more drag, better tires, and no diffuser is what NASCAR needs to do. They need to get their heads out of their *ss and do what's right for Drivers and Fans But unfortunately, NASCAR is like "wE lIkE wHaT wE'rE sEeInG" and "nO hOrSePoWeR"!!! What's the point of running the Next-gen if you're not gonna improve it??
This cars already have a shit ton of drag they barely go over 170 at a superspeedway without the draft and in the draft there like 195 to 200 i feel like they actually have too much drag
If pro dirt track racing ever gets a tv contract I'd be down with NASCAR dumping short tracks entirely. Their short track product even with older cars hasn't been good
Edit: "And I like to think, that maybe Nascar will be better off when France family is dead" -CM Punk, probably I think this is what old boomer fans mean when they say "Nascar died with Dale" No, it didn't directly die with Dale, but it created all of these butterfly effects, the car being the main one Gen 4 was perfect, just needed safety improvements, instead Nascar was hellbent and re-invented the cars with Gen 5 Everyone hated Gen 5 so they rushed Gen 6, it was an aerodynamic disaster. So now we're here. Nascar rushed another gen of car into Gen 7. And we now have a slu of new issues
i still think its save-able. For me #1 priority is Short Tracks. Once we fix that then for me its just Super speedways that need work (specifically Talladega)
In my opinion, just get rid of the diffuser and splitter for the gen 8, because that way it will make the front of the car less sensitive to dirty air because their is no blade for it to mess with, I think that is what made the gen 4 car so good in dirty air because it didnt have a splitter and it was able to fight and in some way work WITH the dirty air and I know the gen 4 also had dirty air issues, but dirty air will always be a thing in autosport, you can't get rid of it and atleast you were still able to get behind another car with the gen 4 compared to what we have now with the gen 7.
I wonder if they could solve it with rub strips. make a mandatory on track ride height. The diffuser was designed to clean up the air under the car FOR THE CAR BEHIND THEM. not for them to make fundamentally 98% of there downforce. you pick the car up off the ground, the diffuser becomes less effective, forces teams to build more downforce with the top of the car. and more air under the car provides for the cars behind. And now with the lead cars building more downforce with the top of the car again, the second place car can get him loose. I also think narrower, softer tires, and maybe 75-100hp more. Increase off throttle time, make the tires not take abuse like they do. Another thing to add is maybe smaller brakes, go back to the same style as the 15 inch wheel size brakes
If NASCAR was willing to put the massive amount of money into it that would be necessary, they should really consider making the cup cars have the xfinity body/chassis with an additional 200-300 horsepower and spend 5+ years using that platform while also testing and building a proper new car for cup, likely still on the gen 7 platform. The biggest issue with Cup using the xfinity style cars is the fact that they are basically reverting back to the gen 5/6 if they make that move. Xfinity has really been in the same generation of car since 2010.
NASCAR's biggest problem, they want every race to have a finish like we saw at Atlanta and Kansas, which is impossible no matter how you slice it, and they want the power to dictate what teams can and can't use on this car! Sure, we can give these cars more horsepower, but all its going to do is make the cars go faster, thats it! They still won't be able to pass, the teams will still have a spec chassis, spec suspension, all that. The one thing I will give the NextGen car credit for is the bodies are symmetrical, more like the production cars, everything else being spec, except the engines of course, is a problem! You've gotta open up the playbook in those areas, maybe take the rear defusor off, and maybe you can start seeing some results. And yes, I too remember the early days of the COT, those weren't exactly fun to watch either! I'll even go back a little further @RealRadman, and I'm giving away my age a little bit, but back in 1998, NASCAR had what they called the "5 and 5" rule, where the front valance (they didn't have splitters in those days) had to be 5 inches from the track surface, and the rear spoiler had to be 5 inches. And just that simple rule change had a very negative effect on the racing product, especially on the intermediate tracks. Point I'm making is NASCAR making decisions that negatively impact the on track product is nothing new, its just not as glaring as what we're seeing now. Back to the main topic, I like the bodies being symmetrical and not the "twisted sisters" we had near the end of the gen 4 era, and I'm okay with NASCAR telling the teams to not mess with the bodies, but everything else needs a major overhaul!
What I'm hearing is they should've just used a TA1 car with an independent rear suspension setup. You get more power, _way_ less weight, more drag, and no diffuser, plus there's already infrastructure to build chassis for them.
I remember the first COT race. Bristol night race. Kyle Busch absolutely flattened the field. He gets out of the car and everyone was expecting him to praise the car. He called it an absolute POS. Hated how it drove, hated everything about it. I think this new car has potential and like Joey said they need to test process of elimination
Personally i love everything about the C.O.T both versions and just everything about the era. The nationwide series, camping world series and sprint cup series.
They won’t. They just pass the buck onto other avenues to bandaid it. Goodyear is having to put way too much effort into fixing the racing when the fundamental issue is lack of power and too wide of a wheel, which creates too much grip. Goodyear shouldn’t have to go back to the drawing board on crazy compounds
In my view NASCAR needs to get rid of the Next Gen car entirely & instead allow the manufacturers (both current & potential) to do whatever the heck they want in terms of modifying the car. This would allow significantly more innovation in the sport & create more exciting racing mainly because the teams aren't forced to follow a template for every race & can give it everything they have. NASCAR has already seen what giving back control of car design to the manufacturers has done in sports car racing due to their ownership of IMSA & them & the FIA basically agreeing to a set of regulations a few years ago called balance of performance that allows manufacturers to be more innovative & maximize the performance of their cars. As a result we have seen a huge increase in manufacturer participation in both the WEC & IMSA especially in the Hypercar/Prototype category though other categories have seen increases as well.
I hate how everyone assumes that everyone hated the looks of the COT. I was around the same age as you when they were being raced and the COT to me, looked amazing. One of my favorite gens of racecars.
I didn't like the 2007 version of the COT the 2011 version was much better and I also don't agree that the 2007 made racing better from 2007 to about 2008 the racing wasn't great then the 2009 All Star race happened but then after that not much. 2011 and 2012 where much better years.
Honestly I’ve been watching more xfinity than cup since 2022 because cup isn’t that good anymore. Don’t get me wrong some of the events in cup are worth watching but since we’re talking about gen 7 things have been hit or miss mainly miss because of how it takes damage, how slow it is, the gen 7 preforming like trash, slight wall contact ending peoples days or one small part cracking and ending up breaking the whole car, and mainly it’s safety. Honestly 2023 would’ve been a perfect year to release the gen 7 but no nascar got too excited and impatient so they ended up ending Kurt Busch’s career. I think nascar has a list of things to fix, to adjust, and to improve on but nascars recent actions and response and his long it takes them to react I think they won’t get through half of the problems when gen 8 is arriving. Do I have any hopes for nascar cup series: absolutely not Do I think nascar can turn itself to success if they pay attention: nope And do I think the gen 7 car will end more careers: possibly
Hear me out here. What if nascar went back to the process that worked for decades? Manufacturers provide or sell body parts to the teams and they build their own cars under them to the rules. It’s almost like it worked for 40 years
The irony that the Xfinity Car that everyone praises is basically the COT template improved over the years, but eveyone complained it was "too ugly, too boxy"😂 Drivers and engineers will figure this out, it just takes time, bitching and overreacting just leads Nascar to cars like the gen 6 where they focused only on the looks and ruined the racing.
In my opinion yes the next gen car prevents smaller teams like legacy and RCR from moving up the field but this season it has produced the closest finishes in NASCAR history at Atlanta, Talladega and Daytona and12 different winners already. However, the road courses have been a problem with Sonoma being some of the most predictable and boring races i have ever seen in the sport. NASCAR will not be prepared to invest what is needed into the Next-Gen car with dwindling viewing figures and empty stands but it could be a long-term gain with closer racing at road courses potentially producing surprises that bring in a new audience if the problems are fixed. They need to put skirting boards on the side of the car so that less air comes from the car in front and get rid of the diffuser so that generating downforce and following and high mid-corner speeds can be easier and better. NASCAR needs to take a page out of F1s book on this one
I think there r things you’re also not considering here too. NASCAR with the bigger tire wanted to have the tires be more in touch with their street counterparts. F1 did the same cause street cars don’t really have tires that thick outside of pickups. So it kinda was necessary since NASCAR and F1 and most likely the tire manufacturers all wanted it. The 5 speed sequential gear box was more so cause…well let’s face it street cars and race cars alike don’t run a 4 speed manual gearbox anymore. Maybe semiautomatic transmission in street cars but very rare to see a H pattern gearbox. Plus street cars r having more and more gears in a transmission for better fuel economy, better towing in pickups, etc. Ya have Chevy 1500s with a 10 speed transmission with the 5.3L or 6.2L V8. I mean F1 cars r currently the only race cars with 8 speed gearboxes. And the only race cars aside from Trucks and Xfinity that have an H pattern transmission r Trans Am TA2 cars, Late Models, Modifieds, and other oval racing type cars, and some street cars stripped down and built for racing for racing during the weekend at local short tracks or circuit racing with smaller sports car series. Also your idea of what ground effect is, it’s incorrect. Ground effect in NASCAR wasn’t done since 2003 as u say, but 2022. Ground effect is when a car uses the under body of the car to create downforce by letting air flow under the front and out the back sometimes usually by using air ducts to guide the air under the car and using side skirts to keep most of the air under the car to to keep the car sucked to the ground. Examples of ground effect cars r the current F1 cars, some of the F1 cars of the late 70s like the Lotus 79, some Group C sports cars like the Porsche 956 & 962, Jaguar XJR-9 & XJR-12, Sauber Mercedes C9 and C11, and the Peugeot 9X8 LMH r all ground effect cars. What you’re thinking of is when teams plant the splitter and skirts close to the ground to make the car more streamline since more air under the car creates drag. Less drag equals more speed which is essential for tracks like intermediates where speed is key, but still have the car setup up depending on how the chassis is built to handle in the corners. The way the Next Gen is, it’s more of a ground effect car, especially with how Hamlin and Logano have described how ya run these cars.
I absolutely hate this car, forced my favorite driver to retire, lack of horsepower, way to reliant on aero dynamics, tire blowing literally every spin, and the car is way to rigid
We did know NASCAR didn't test the car in traffic, though. The only multi-car test was a 2-car test with Kurt Busch and Martin Truex at Charlotte. I suspect they used computer simulation to design and test the cars, thinking they would be close enough. Then, when they got to Charlotte and tested it with dozens of cars, they shitted their pants because they realized the car was awful, and they had the teams save their sorry asses. Well, I believe the teams could do the same thing now. Give the teams 3 months to come up with some changes to the car, then after the season is over, test them out at each style of track, then choose which changes worked the best and prepare to put them on the cars that season. It wouldn't have to be by the beginning of the season, but say after 10 races or something like that. That way, you get a big change during the season, which could spice things up, and you end up with a better car, designed more by the people that actually build and race the cars than by office-dwelling engineers that don't work in the real world. I'm not blasting engineers; they're very smart people, but my dad worked in the RV industry his entire adult life, and many times he would have to fix the things that engineers designed because they didn't work in applications for one reason or another. Either the parts didn't fit right, they didn't work right, or they interfered with other things, causing more problems than they solved. My point being, let the teams solve the issues with the cars, and they will be fixed much faster than NASCAR can do it because they're better at it.
Millad. Friend. I know you're not a car guy... but have you ever seen a 1970's Thunderbird? Lmao. The mock-up at 28:17 is not it, bud. This looks strangely more like the DTM Mercedes 190E Evo II, but with only a slightly taller rear wing. The T-Birds were long, wide and flat coupés, not weird looking truck-based sedan things lmao
NASCAR wanted to unveil the car at the start of the 2021 season, but got delayed because of COVID. Because COVID happened they weren’t able to thoroughly test the car. Instead of waiting another year, they rushed an unfinished product and this is the end result. Terrible decision making by the leaders of NASCAR
They never will take any big swings most people here are suggesting. Maybe softer tires. They aren't going to change the car, they don't care. People need to stop showing up if you want change
Unfortunately, I doubt they can change the width of the tires. This car was designed for this width of tires, so changing it would likely change the entire driving characteristics of the car. They should absolutely up the HP to at least 750 though
@@TrevorPhipps-vw6kr more power more chance to get out of the groove. That's why you up the power with narrowing the tire width a bit and you get a better racing product than we have. So yes upping the power will as long as you don't do just the power alone. It's a multi part problem that needs a multi part solution.
@@r3dn3ck774c your not understanding that add more power will only just make the cars go faster the racing won’t get any better.. the only way is to completely overhaul the car
I wouldn’t say there’s no hope for it. Granted it has multiple ridiculous flaws that the naked eye can see. However, we have seen the amazing plate and mile and a half races. Take Kansas, Daytona, Atlanta as your examples. In my opinion, While the short tracks and road courses are not nearly as good as they were 3 years ago. We can at least applaud NASCAR for at least trying something new with the tires, to at least improve the short track racing, and I think if Pheonix is going to be the championship track this year. They should make the option tire available for that race. And if NASCAR is willing to push Goodyear to make new tires to improve the racing like it would horsepower (without giving us horsepower) we should at least give them a chance, to further the development of this car 3 years in to find fixes to there flaws, while keeping the good racing that they have at bigger tracks.
We don't have more road courses and short tracks than ever. There are only 4 on the Cup schedule this season, down from 6 previously. There's no Wilkesboro or Fairgrounds like there used to be to along with Bristol, Richmond and Martinsville. Xfinity has more road courses, but not Cup.
I think if Nascar would be willing to give them back their horsepower it would greatly improve the racing. We have gone to 700+ down to 500hp or less. I think it has killed the racing.
I feel Nascar will continue the idea of the next gen in some way. Either that be a straight next gen 2.0. Or a car that’s along the lines of like the gen 6 but with the single source parts and that kinda of stuff. NASCAR likes the next gen because it allowed them to do garage 56 and apparently attract Honda. It’s unknown but that’s what I think
The dirty air problem means it only races well at multi-groove tracks. Miami, Kansas... progressive banking. Going to a ground effect system was terrible. and lack of side force + small tire sidewalls makes the cars edgy.
Denny Hamlin and Joey Logano both have very good points honestly I hope nascar can sort it out or if they can’t just reveal the 8th gen honestly I did like the car of tomorrow
This conversation is utterly ridiculous to me when we have had 2 of the greater races in NASCAR history this year, road course races IMO have been better this year than any in NG Era, and the Coke 600 has been brought back to life with this car. Plus many moments (yes some bad) since 2022 that I don’t remember hardly at all from 2017-2021. Can there be improvements? Absolutely. But it’s not as simple as put the Xfinity car in cup and everything is better! That car has 650 HP, less engineering, less SMT. It would not be the same. It’s just frustrating man
Honestly with how fucked this car is in traffic and several other areas the only thing I can think of to even attempt to give it a shot at redemption is rip out the restrictor plates and say boys time to chase speed again and see if that has a chance of redeeming the damn thing
The nextgen car is in a state of no return. If and this is a big if, if Nascar decides to make changes, they should really ask for driver output. They know what's going down inside the cars, not the higher-ups. But as it stands, we just got to deal with it.
The whole concept of a "spec" car in a stock car racing series is the problem.
I think Tony Stewart said it best when he was on Kenny Wallace's show a while back. He said quote "I don't think we should have got a sports car maker (Dallara) to design a stock car".
In my opinion the next gen car is virtually unfixable. It’s not just an aero package or a tire compound, it’s the wheel width, the hp nascar refuses to change, the gearbox, the diffuser, the overpowered brakes, the spec parts, etc. It needs the type of fundamental changes that are really only possible with a move to a new generation imo.
Everything is broken lol
Not really. The bits that are messing up the car from the aero standpoint is not a structural parts of the chassis
@@quickgenerichannelname3295 eh I think it’s not just the diffuser, the shifting and brakes really hurt the short tracks and road courses badly. Those aren’t fixable without wholesale changes.
The next gen was quite literally made in such a way that damn near every issue, no matter what it is, could be fixable... As long as the sanctioning body is actually willing to put the money into it. The core of the next gen is really just a three piece chassis and a common body. EVERYTHING else can be changed if NASCAR actually cared and wasn't just here to make money.
Not really you Crybabies continue to ignore the good racing at intermediate tracks....the next gen is an improvement over the gen 6 period
There's many issues but the chassis are way too rigid, that's the main one. These cars have also needed to be lighter for decades but NASCAR doesn't care.
I always thought the idea of "lighter" cup cars was stupid and not really possible given the characteristics of stock cars, then I saw just how much weight they cut out of the Garage 56 car while simultaneously adding so much new stuff to it.
@@jacobevenson8702 A lot of what made the G56 lighter came down to things that would be more expensive (either from time or money) to manufacture from either a complexity standpoint, or from a material cost standpoint. It's ultimately a single mfg having to make parts for literally of hundreds of cars per year, not even counting spares, which for most other racecars, and especially anything at a higher level, is unheard of.
That and well, stock cars on ovals still have a lot of hits which can really only be addressed by having things that ultimately add weight. A lot of those considerations weren't really relevant to the G56, which allowed for further weight-cutting.
What exactly makes you think the chassis is too rigid?
@@kentonbrewer3232nothing about that is an actual issue, they don’t know what they talking about
I think like Logano said, it’s a combination of everything. The big tires, the carbon fiber underbody, the rear diffuser, the lower hp. If we can get the rear splitter back and do some of the aforementioned changes above, then I think we could have a solid car all the way around (including in traffic and in dirty air) that would put on better races than we currently have.
They better create a Gen 8 car. Which is basically just the Xfinity car, But with Gen 6/7 style bodies. But it’s probably unlikely.
The gen 6 was a replica of an xfinity car with a gen 6 body already.
@@pummupenguin3644Yeah and that racing got so bad they chopped the power to 550 and put a barn door spoiler on. But yes let’s go back to that…..
@@budracing68 The racing was GREAT until they started lowering the horsepower. Just look back at 2014. The same era of car made 900hp and had wonderful racing.
Disclaimer: I am not an engineer, but IMO, the Next Gen car has fundamental handling issues because the chassis is too rigid. Ask anybody who has ever raced r/c cars - the cars with the most rigid chassis' handle like shit, the cars with more flexible cars are easier to drive and, if designed right, tougher. The Next Gen car has a flat floor and 3 clips that bolt together to complete the chassis. I'm sure I don't have to remind people of the rigidity of the back of the cars that came about in 2022 - they only fixed one part of the problem.
You've probably heard many times from the drivers by now: "I had no warning it was going to spin" or "it was tight and then it snapped loose" or similar comments a hundred times over by now - that's the rigidity of the chassis 100%. A horsepower increase or a smaller tire would not fix anything, it would just be a bandaid fix. The diffuser + softer rear springs change the handling a lot too but so does the super wide and draggy front end. Those are smaller problems though compared to the chassis IMO.
Lastly, the car is just too heavy. If there is any way they could knock 400 to 500 lbs off of this car, they should do it. It would help the dirty air dramatically.
A rigid chassis makes the cars handle better. The next gens currently drive way too good on short tracks and road courses and are easy to turn. A rigid structure makes a car turn better, if it flexed, you would have steering issues and less control. If you don't believe me, rollcages actually can improve the steering of the car by making it rigid which you can search. The previous generations (gen 6) handled poorly on short tracks and road courses, but thats what made them exciting and more skill based
You mention drivers spinning because of the rigidity of the chassis, but that simply doesnt make sense. If that were true, there would be numerous spins on short tracks and road courses. But ever since the next gen, those are now nonexistant. Sudden spins happen on intermediate tracks where aero is the biggest factor. This is because any bump can still out the aero being produced by the underbody and cause it to slide. And once the next gen is slightly sideways, the diffuser does not generator much downforce. To further prove my point, drivers mention how when they tested the car with no diffuser, they were able to slide around and catch the car more easier
the chassis itself is not as big of a factor as you think
Looking back at my knowledge of aero, its progressed a lot from where I was back in ~2019.
The way I explained downforce in that old video was that by "removing air" from underneath the car, that's how to make downforce. Which was "true" to an extent with the Gen1-6 NASCAR vehicles. However as the Next-Gen has helped me better understand, that was only true because Gen1-6 vehicles underbodies were largely lift generators. The areas where you had a flat section (say the radiator pan) they actually were wanting to feed air to it to help generate downforce (curved splitters before they were banned).
The smooth floor allows the air to increase in velocity and thus decrease in pressure. Adding to the negative lift (downforce) of the car. However all the trailing arms, engine components, transmission components, bumper bars, etc, created localized slow moving pockets of air that in collective created a huge lift problem under the car. This was best solved by simply not allowing air under the car. Thus why the front splitter were welded to the floor in our previous eras. My knowledge of diffusers, etc was all flawed from this mindset.
Diffusers work for two reasons and these two reasons are two components of the same effect. #1 they decrease the pocket of slow moving air left in the cars wake, thus decreasing the negative effects of that wake. (downforce loss, drag, etc) #2 and most importantly they speed up the air coming out from under the car. This (as mentioned in the previous paragraph) decreases the pressure under the entire car, front to rear, and generates a lot of downforce.
Overall I still don't think the diffuser alone is really a big deal, the issue is the flat floor in front of it. A great example of this is that when they removed the diffuser the aero issues of the car remained. (short track package this year doesn't even really have a "diffuser" anymore) The main thing the diffuser removal helped with was allowing the car to run at higher yaw angles (how sideways the car is mid corner) without stalling downforce as aggressively. Thus allowing the drivers to hustle the car and tires harder. (Diffusers tend to be very yaw angle sensitive).
The main reason the NextGen has fixed the aero problems of the old Gen-6 car one intermediates are two fold.
#1. The car is designed to keep its wake very narrow by keeping the air better attached to the car all the way to the rear end. Critically that rear end tapers much more than previous cars and is straight, rather than angled on one side. The NextGen's wake is much straighter and narrower behind the lead car vs. the Gen-6 where the wake was very wide (due to the cars overall triangular shape and wide rear end). This created a situation where visually the car in 2nd could be fully outside of the direct line of site wake of the front car (ie a lane up) but still getting severe aero issues because of the large scale, angled wake from the lead car.
#2. The NextGen decreased the reliance on sideforce for lap time significantly. (this decrease plays a large part in the lap time decrease from previous cars despite similar overall downforce levels, see ARCA running times faster than cup at Dover) Sideforce was very wake and velocity sensitive. Think of it as a wing on the side of the car that was generating a force into the direction corner helping the cars stability. With that knowledge you could understand why in a giant wake of a gen-6, you could be fully out of the visual line of site for the wake, yet your sideforce was being critically effected and thus you were being slowed down.
TLDR the car was very aero sensitive and threw a bigger wake than the current NG car.
There are some stories from the garage that I've heard from the Gen-6 era that a car directly behind another car (in very specific circumstances) could actually be generating more "negative lift aka downforce" than when it was leading because of all the negative underbody and overbody elements (rear glass, etc) of the car for downforce creation. However ALL of this was negated by the loss of sideforce and thus even with more downforce than the lead car, they were still overall slower.
Overall TLDR: So while the NG addressed the size of the wake and car's sideforce reliance, they simultaneously made directly following another car 10x worse because of the flat underfloor.
I could absolutely have gaps in my knowledge, like I did back in the previous video, but hopefully the explanation is at least 70% true and will help everyone understand the car better. If anyone with more knowledge is around please feel free to correct sections of my statement below.
My take on how to fix the car is to let the teams test and bring back practice each weekend.
Allow them to work on the car, let them massage the new body and add or remove parts, work on the engine or tuning
All the teams get together with NASCAR and say 1 week we will test at a superspeedway, next month intermediate track, next month is short tracks, then follow up with road courses. If one team finds something that works everyone tries it so a more complete notebook can be formed. That way we can see what does and doesn't work.
What we know works for the car are softer tires ex Bristol and New Hampshire race on the rain tire. So let's try that on other tracks in the dry or just a softer tire compound period.
"It just spun with no warning" means the chassis suck. Ladder climber nascar executives won't change anything though, too much egg on their face.
Most spins happen without warning
Your clueless the gen 4 would spin out on its own just from a car underneath it
.... everyone loved the gen 4 though
@@truckercowboyed2638that’s not on its own, it’s aero manipulation by the other car.
They Danica Patrick'd the sport - they tested the cars running fast laps and forgot to test them racing eachother
Yep. They only tested the racing at the point where it was pretty much completed. They just had the one test mule for most of the development cycle. Action made a second one late in development, but traffic testing with only 2 cars for a series that races in large packs is stupid.
Well, for short tracks and road courses, NASCAR is already running a super-simplified version of the diffuser (it's so small, you forget it's actually on the car), and they already said they're not doing anymore aero changes for the time being, so...😐
Now you already know I want to add 80-100 HP to these cars lol, but not because I think it'll help the aero issues per se. But it'll allow for more off-throttle time in the corners (and therefore, more opportunity for lap time disparity), heavier braking, and a more even power-grip ratio.
To go along with that, one change I would LOVE to see is the bump stops deleted and the ride height minimums tossed out the window. That way, they can not only run the diffuser as low as possible, but the splitter also. I don't think NASCAR anticipated teams squatting the rear end of the Gen-7 so much, and the rake of the car had to have an effect on the front downforce. With no ride height minimums, that should allow the rake to be more even and give the car some front downforce back. And maybe run a 6 to 7-inch spoiler to give the car a little more topside downforce? Idk.
They need to change alot of aero stuff like a bigger spoiler for instance that would help with the dirty air situation. I doubt they will change anything.
Nope a bigger spoiler didn't work on the Gen 6 car but a very small spoiler also unbalanced the Gen 6 car too.
A really cheap option would be experimenting with ride-heights. Maybe if you get the splitter off the ground just enough you’ll lose a bit of downforce and mechanical grip will be important again. Richard Petty said years ago that stock car racing is better when it’s a mechanical grip game. That makes sense because obviously the lead car doesn’t affect the mechanical grip of the trailing car. This didn’t start with the ground effects of 03. It really started with coil-binding in 05 or 06. That’s when the teams figured out how to seal the front valance to the track. That’s when aero-blocking really took off. It’s obviously gotten progressively much worse since. The funny thing is that once the coil-binding started, the complaining about not being able to pass started and that coincides directly with the ratings decline. It’s really simple, gimmicks don’t work. The Gen 4 car was a good race car. They could pass. It put on good racing everywhere. As a result NASCAR gained popularity year after year. Once the cars struggled to pass each other, people stopped watching. All the playoffs and stage racing and other garbage won’t save a series where the cars can’t pass each other. It’s RACING. Make the racing good and people will watch. NASCAR since 06 has been the equivalent of a restaurant with great service, great scenery, good parking and below average food. You can dress it up all you want but you’ll lose business to a hole-in-the-wall steakhouse that has great food, which is basically what 90s NASCAR was. A bunch of rednecks with simple rules, and great racing.
Couldn’t have said it best! I’ll also add that another semi cheap option is to work with V8 Supercars in the offseason. They use the wind tunnel in Charlotte in December for BOP aero updates. For how similar the next gen and gen 3 Supercar look, it’s wild to see how different they race. They don’t allow bump drafting as a rule to pass but it’s incredible how well the trailing car can follow the leading car. They do have a diffuser but it’s as plastic as a street car and less performance driven all while having a traditional splitter. If nascar shared wind tunnel time and came up with ideas from that wind tunnel testing and tried something that wouldn’t completely break the bank like a regular splitter and tried different ride heights and setup combos (as you suggested) for a week at Phoenix, I would actually start to gain some faith. But it’s nascar and it’s not hard for them to block their own blessings.
The thing is
this car is absolute peak on intermediate tracks
some of the greatest racing we have ever seen on those tracks
not to mention the parity is amazing
but like the thing is I still think this car needs a bit more time to cook
I don't think we need to instantly juts kick this car to the side like ASCAR did with the COT
just when that car was getting really good they ditched it for the Gen 6
idk if NASCAR needs to go through that again
what they need to do is take a good hard look in the mirror and admit defeat that this car is not as perfect as they think it is
whe it wors it works
but when it doesn't it really doesn't
they need to actually address road courses and short tracks and not just slap band-aids on it
the drivers the teams AND the manufacturers are literally all begging for more horespower
and the drivers themselves are giving plenty of solutions for these cars
so overall I personally think this sport is in a better place than it was 5 years ago but we still need to improve
I hope NASCAR takes the lessons learned form this generation of car and improves on it in the next generation
with that being said I can't wait for fans to be glazing the shit out of this car 5-10 years after its gone like every other generation of car
The problem in my eyes is the one size fits all formula. NASCAR wanted this car to be used at every style of track with no changes to the body or suspension and with all the variables in physics that every track has, it hasn't worked out well. Let the teams go back to having short track cars, speedway cars, and road course cars, bump the horsepower to 800 so the back end can at least break loose coming out of the turns, and just let the teams practice. Practice reveals so much about the track, the cars, the drivers and not having practice keeps everything in a box and I feel NASCAR has done this on purpose and it's gotta stop because we're almost at the point of no return
Why don't they allow tape on the grille, why don't they change the spoilers or the side panels, why so heavy with so little HP. So many why's
Cup needs Xfinity car with 850hp
this will be amazing racing.
Xfinity 650 hp cup is 670 hp
@@keeganracer8300 I know but I want xfinity in cup with 850hp like back in 2014
Nope Nascar needs to give the gen 7 more horsepower at least 800hp, the gen 7 is fine the complaining fake fans are the problem!
@@miketwotwenty every driver and most fans hate this car. It needs a lot of work. Xfinity doesn’t
We used to call what you're describing, the Car of Tomorrow
Its the same story. ever since 2007 nascar fans have been hating each car from the C.O.T to the Gen 6 car and now the Next-Gen. Theres gonna be a car that is similar to the gen 4 and is all around perfect but i'm pretty sure fans are gonna hate that one too, If it happens
Gen 6 was fine in my opinion
NASCAR fans can't make their mind up
@@justcody6068 It became better after years passed. In 2013 it wasn't good too in my opinion, but at least they made it better.
@@justcody6068gen 6 with 550hp package wasn’t that great!
Remember when NASCAR fans wanted shorter races
I really wish they would just try a few races without the diffuser and without the splitter and see what happens
When you have to rely on Goodyear to try and help your product, you are already admitting that you failed. Way too wide of tire which gives the car way too much grip, gear ratios where the drivers have to shift which absolutely has ruined short track racing, dirty air, and on and on and on. Just put the cup drivers in modified Xfinity series cars.
remember when everyone was complaining about the Gen 6 car, and now those same people want it back?
High horsepower. Ditch the under body except for road courses an get a softer tire. Maybe consider option tires. Put some strategy in it
Two things
1. Overcomplicating
2. Refusing to admit
A sequential shifter, wider tires, diffuser, powerful brakes, digital gauge display, putting the number to the front of the car, the playoffs & many more thing that there saw & really wanted, but they never asked “is that really necessary?” And never admitting and trying to stick it has been a problem for years, & if they don’t admit sooner or later, then we’re in for a long ride.
But all that’s the fans fault… just read the comments
When Denny said (quote on quote) you get behind a car and loose all downforce, that's what happend (I think) with him and other drivers at Texas, battling Vs Chase turn 4 looses the car behind him.
IMO, the Brickyard showed that it's not just a power thing with Cup. Xfinity ran with probably one of the most-univerally disliked packages, and despite still having less power than Cup, still put on a much better show in the closing laps.
I recall something about the balance of the car in dirty air being mentioned by one of the SHR drivers (I believe it was Cole Custer) mentioned how the car became more loose in dirty air, which is the opposite of what the Gen7 tends to do in dirty air. Which makes the question "how do we keep the balance from migrating too far rearwards in dirty air".
Answer *might* be power though, thinking about it. Mostly because I expect it to push the setup window of the cars further rearward, both in terms of aero and mechanical setup. Now, if that means the front of the car ends up more or less sensitive would be to be seen.
We'd probably need to cut the aero back then, if only so we don't kill people at Michigan or Pocono. Also tbh, I'd rather change up the rear diffuser (specifically at the entry of the outboard section; i really don't know why it kicks up and then back down at that specific point), but NASCAR seems done with aero changes, so...
It's such an easy fix, unrestrict the engines, take the tapered spacers back off, give these guys the 850-950hp they had in 2014, they could probably push over 1000hp out of these engines now a decade later. I promise you this would help so much, much faster straightaway speed, harder on the brakes in corners, the power needed to overcome dirty air, the power needed to actually wear these tires out, horsepower literally fixes EVERYTHING but it's the one area NASCAR fucking refuses to touch lmao
It isn't just that though. The splitter is also a problem.
umm the faster they go the worse the dirty air will be because the turbulence will increase...
Sure, if all you want to see is cars going over 200mph at all the intermediate tracks. Let's say NASCAR wakes up one day and says, "we're taking the taper spacers off and the engines are completely unrestricted". Great, now the cars go 200+mph at Michigan, Pocono, Atlanta, Homestead, etc, AND THEY STILL CAN'T PASS! If all you want is speed, then sure, it's an easy fix. The problem is, you still have a spec car where everyone runs the same chassis, shocks, springs, gears, and so on. Increasing horsepower, by itself, won't fix the on track product in terms of cars being able to pass each other.
@@randallellison6421 we won’t know until we try, and I absolutely disagree with you, I think it’ll fix a lot, maybe not everything, but it certainly won’t hurt it lol, it can’t get much worse anyways. It’s 100% worth a shot and if you say otherwise you’re a NASCAR shill.
@Borchert97 what I'm saying is increasing the horsepower by itself will not rectify the issue with these cars! Yes, it could help, but there's also a good chance it could further harm the on track product as well, because the teams will still have a car that is essentially spec everywhere else! You need to give these teams more freedom WITH the added horsepower in order to tune the cars to the driver's liking. Unfortunately, NASCAR will never do that because they don't want to give the team the ability to do that! Let's face it, that is what this is really about, NASCAR wants to be able to control what the teams can and can not do to these cars! We have been slow rolling to this moment for 20+ years, and now we're seeing the effects of that movement!
Anyone here watch that wild prairie dirt classic
I need to make it to fairbury one year that place looks so awesome. That was a master class in tire preservation by BP32 last night.
Was a show for sure wish RTJ would have been able to get it done
@@MICHMIKEY It's a great facility in the middle of a cool little town, best seats are on the backstretch IMO
Only saw highlights but it seems like an awesome track and event
Indiana Sprint Week race at Kokomo was exciting as well!
the gen 6 for as good as it drove it was firmly stuck in 1979 mechanically. i like the independent rear suspension, transaxle, wider tires, we just need high aero and high horsepower. minimum 900.
Being stuck in 1979 is what made NASCAR famous internationally.
@@hansmitdergans7879 also why it got the butt end of every joke for the past ten years.
@@kylefranko6022well, the jokes are a lot worse and more applicable now. This is a racing series, not a popularity contest
I really appreciate hearing your thoughts on the car, so don't worry about the video being long. An I would very much like to hear a playoffs rant video, because I would enjoy ranting with you while watching 😂
I think another issue is the teams are in such a box and cant adjust or do anything to the cars to counteract the problem. Let the teams do more and lets see what the can come up with.
Power won’t change anything without corresponding tire width and aero changes. You nailed it. Good job pointing out the pointless width change in the tire. We’re running snowshoes where we need skates. The tires don’t get into the track anymore, they tend to float on top, and that only gets worse as downforce is removed, so those changes need to happen at the same time, but NASCAR has only tested one aspect at a time.
Xfinity is pretty good all around, but it's not as good at superspeedway and intermediate as the cup car, so I give it a 6/10
21:18 A fix that won't cost them any money would be to up the horsepower. Ford and Toyota said it would be easy to add 100 hp to the cars and many fans, mysepf included, believe it would fix the short track and road course problem. What I don't understand is why not try it. Clearly the current regs haven't brought a new OEM. Increasing the hp certainly won't hurt if they already can't bring a new OEM
Maybe an unpopular opinion but i have no problem with the diffuser, helps ALOT on road courses. Also hats off to Bobby Perice on his 1st Prairie Dirt Classic win last night.
Yeah I don't understand all the negativity around the road course package I think it's solid.
People blaming the diffuser are clueless but they definitely need more ways to generate downforce
That was a huge moment a fairbury last night what motorsports is all about, just a tremendous race from start to finish
@@Duff79 agree 👍
@@Longhornchassis2thefrontit is just not good. Anyone with eyes knows that the Next Gen car is not good on road courses.
Bring back the gen 4 with the cot safety features integrated
Why they didn’t at least attempt this 15 years ago is beyond me
the thing about the on-track time you're talking about is that, people forget the development time in the real world was halted quite badly due to the coronavirus. everything had to be done on simulations like cfd and stuff before the covid restrictions were lifted. it's also a culprit to why the car was so unsafe to begin with-- it wasn't tested in the real world often due to restrictions.
now, that isn't the entire problem of the issue, which is probably the biggest worry about the whole conversation imo. i think nascar did NOT take many factors into account when making this car. if they did, they severely underestimated them.
the stepped splitter & zero yaw in the car were HUGE achievements for this thing to get. unfortunately, other features of the car may or may not have had contribuing factors to its bad performances at slower, mechanical-heavy tracks.
relying on an entire industry downsizing in every form because the sport lost 8 million viewers in its biggest race from 2013-2019 is another huge problem, too. yes, it makes sense for nascar to downsize as a result of that & it's a good call in a vaccum. however, when literally every facet of the game is being slashed to the point of detriment, you're going to see MASSIVE problems in critical areas like car development that may or may not have been taken account for by nascar.. which is something i referred to beforehand. i think it's time nascar bites the bullet, forgets the fact the sport is smaller in popularity, and hurt the wallet for the better good of everybody. that's probably the only way to fix this. in all honesty, i wish nascar would do that over this year's offseason for that reason. it just makes sense.
there's so much more that i want to say that i also forgot about, so that shows how deep of a rut this debate is. i feel like nascar is gonna have to get some outside help from not only their own industry, but also feedback from the stock-car racing grassroots scene & the fia. literally every hand you could think of that could help solve this problem is one that you need to bring into the conversation because i don't think nascar can do that without that kind of consideration. it will take TOTAL collaboration & effort, all tirelessly no less, to right all the wrongs. to wrap this up, if nascar can't recognize that then they're fucking screwed.
No more fuel mileage races I all ready said it on my podcast lol 😂
At Superspeedways is agreeable to your statement
The last of the last will be Loganos Nashville win, but even that was controversial on its own
Yes, they didn't test more than 2 cars until a few months until Daytona because there was a massive parts shortage at the end of 2021 into 2022. Every team was supposed to have 7 cars each, and I think RCR only had 4 total going into the 500. By the end of the year, I believe they had enough parts, but yeah, the transition into the Next-Gen was rough
The brakes package at short track and road courses also need to change to be smaller when everyone can stop fast nobody can pass on entry or dive bomb like we got with mtj and chase Elliot at the road courses with Gen 6 and then the short tracks were overall better then bc at least if you got a run off 4 into 1 you had a braking zone to have a chance
I think the 1.5 mile tracks are the best they have ever been, so no changes there. The superspeedways I think are really good right now. Each plate race has gotten better and better, so again, no changes.
The short tracks and road courses are where the problem is at. And I think the problem is that these cars have too much rear grip. With the increased areo, wider tires, and shifting, these cars are planted to the track and I think it is what is hurting the racing. To fix this, Nascar needs to lower the grip and they can do it through 2 ways.
The first option, is to change the tire, more specifically, make it thinner. I'm pretty sure they have messed with the compound before, but I don't think that will fix the issue because there is still the same amount of rubber touching the track. Thinner tires mean less rubber on track, meaning less grip.
The second option is to increase the horsepower. I would say an increase to at least 750 hp, but I would love between 760-820 hp. More Hp, means more torque, which will hopefully exceed the tires' grip threshold, reducing rear grip and requiring more precise throttle control. Hopefully, it also would remove shifting.
Now the problem is that this car was built for the tires that is currently has, so I don't think it would be possible to reduce the width of the tire without messing up racing elsewhere, or changing how the car handles. So that leaves us with option 2 as the only real fix.
Yet Nascar has refused to even test this. They must think that higher horsepower will scare away other manufacturers, but the current ho numbers haven't brought anyone in, so why not just test it. If it doesn't work, at least you can say you tried, and you will just have to try and fix it for the Gen 8 car
What was fundamentally flawed was having just 3 drivers win 90% of the races each season during the Gen-6 era, or how a slightly bent fender could cause a tire rub that entirely ended a driver's day. Next-gen has issues but its a massive improvement in the sport's product. Fans will always hate on the product until we go back to the Gen-4, and even then people will start complaining again about dirty air and the cars being unsafe. It's an endless cycle that all motorsports see.
More horsepower, more drag, better tires, and no diffuser is what NASCAR needs to do. They need to get their heads out of their *ss and do what's right for Drivers and Fans
But unfortunately, NASCAR is like "wE lIkE wHaT wE'rE sEeInG" and "nO hOrSePoWeR"!!!
What's the point of running the Next-gen if you're not gonna improve it??
This cars already have a shit ton of drag they barely go over 170 at a superspeedway without the draft and in the draft there like 195 to 200 i feel like they actually have too much drag
No you fans need to stop crying you don't understand anything about race car design....
@@truckercowboyed2638 Excuse you??
@@truckercowboyed2638 but NASCAR does? How’s them boots taste? 😂
@@truckercowboyed2638 Well I doubt you know anything either fanboy!!!
If pro dirt track racing ever gets a tv contract I'd be down with NASCAR dumping short tracks entirely. Their short track product even with older cars hasn't been good
Edit: "And I like to think, that maybe Nascar will be better off when France family is dead" -CM Punk, probably
I think this is what old boomer fans mean when they say "Nascar died with Dale"
No, it didn't directly die with Dale, but it created all of these butterfly effects, the car being the main one
Gen 4 was perfect, just needed safety improvements, instead Nascar was hellbent and re-invented the cars with Gen 5
Everyone hated Gen 5 so they rushed Gen 6, it was an aerodynamic disaster.
So now we're here. Nascar rushed another gen of car into Gen 7. And we now have a slu of new issues
Why not just take the diffuser off at the short tracks and road courses? I think they can also just add the spoiler in general
i still think its save-able. For me #1 priority is Short Tracks. Once we fix that then for me its just Super speedways that need work (specifically Talladega)
In my opinion, just get rid of the diffuser and splitter for the gen 8, because that way it will make the front of the car less sensitive to dirty air because their is no blade for it to mess with, I think that is what made the gen 4 car so good in dirty air because it didnt have a splitter and it was able to fight and in some way work WITH the dirty air and I know the gen 4 also had dirty air issues, but dirty air will always be a thing in autosport, you can't get rid of it and atleast you were still able to get behind another car with the gen 4 compared to what we have now with the gen 7.
Just get the cars off the ground, $20 to extend the blocks they sit on when the tires are flat and boom they have to run 2" higher
I wonder if they could solve it with rub strips. make a mandatory on track ride height. The diffuser was designed to clean up the air under the car FOR THE CAR BEHIND THEM. not for them to make fundamentally 98% of there downforce. you pick the car up off the ground, the diffuser becomes less effective, forces teams to build more downforce with the top of the car. and more air under the car provides for the cars behind. And now with the lead cars building more downforce with the top of the car again, the second place car can get him loose. I also think narrower, softer tires, and maybe 75-100hp more. Increase off throttle time, make the tires not take abuse like they do. Another thing to add is maybe smaller brakes, go back to the same style as the 15 inch wheel size brakes
If NASCAR was willing to put the massive amount of money into it that would be necessary, they should really consider making the cup cars have the xfinity body/chassis with an additional 200-300 horsepower and spend 5+ years using that platform while also testing and building a proper new car for cup, likely still on the gen 7 platform.
The biggest issue with Cup using the xfinity style cars is the fact that they are basically reverting back to the gen 5/6 if they make that move. Xfinity has really been in the same generation of car since 2010.
NASCAR's biggest problem, they want every race to have a finish like we saw at Atlanta and Kansas, which is impossible no matter how you slice it, and they want the power to dictate what teams can and can't use on this car! Sure, we can give these cars more horsepower, but all its going to do is make the cars go faster, thats it! They still won't be able to pass, the teams will still have a spec chassis, spec suspension, all that. The one thing I will give the NextGen car credit for is the bodies are symmetrical, more like the production cars, everything else being spec, except the engines of course, is a problem! You've gotta open up the playbook in those areas, maybe take the rear defusor off, and maybe you can start seeing some results. And yes, I too remember the early days of the COT, those weren't exactly fun to watch either! I'll even go back a little further @RealRadman, and I'm giving away my age a little bit, but back in 1998, NASCAR had what they called the "5 and 5" rule, where the front valance (they didn't have splitters in those days) had to be 5 inches from the track surface, and the rear spoiler had to be 5 inches. And just that simple rule change had a very negative effect on the racing product, especially on the intermediate tracks. Point I'm making is NASCAR making decisions that negatively impact the on track product is nothing new, its just not as glaring as what we're seeing now. Back to the main topic, I like the bodies being symmetrical and not the "twisted sisters" we had near the end of the gen 4 era, and I'm okay with NASCAR telling the teams to not mess with the bodies, but everything else needs a major overhaul!
I actually liked the COT. The racing was so much better
People hated it because it looked weird basically no other valid reason
@@CaseySpecoliIt just didn't look like a race car or a street car either.
I love the next gen and what it has done for intermediate racing but the short track and road course package stinks so I would give it a 7/10
Surprised it only took 2 years for this topic
What I'm hearing is they should've just used a TA1 car with an independent rear suspension setup. You get more power, _way_ less weight, more drag, and no diffuser, plus there's already infrastructure to build chassis for them.
The answer to this is simple and has been in front of us….. the nationwide car. Run the same car as them and add HP.
I remember the first COT race. Bristol night race. Kyle Busch absolutely flattened the field. He gets out of the car and everyone was expecting him to praise the car. He called it an absolute POS. Hated how it drove, hated everything about it. I think this new car has potential and like Joey said they need to test process of elimination
Personally i love everything about the C.O.T both versions and just everything about the era. The nationwide series, camping world series and sprint cup series.
So what I remember hearing is they made the bigger tire because they also made the brakes alot larger to.
Nascar will fix the flaws with the car but it will take time
They’ll fix it when they come up with the Gen 8 car
They won’t. They just pass the buck onto other avenues to bandaid it. Goodyear is having to put way too much effort into fixing the racing when the fundamental issue is lack of power and too wide of a wheel, which creates too much grip. Goodyear shouldn’t have to go back to the drawing board on crazy compounds
Lol
😂 yeah their past really shows their willingness to admit they’re wrong
What are you doing, step-splitter?!
Clear the way 4 Ms. lee.
Also by the way, this is what manufacturers wanted! They wanted the NG. They don’t want a boxy looking race car
In my view NASCAR needs to get rid of the Next Gen car entirely & instead allow the manufacturers (both current & potential) to do whatever the heck they want in terms of modifying the car. This would allow significantly more innovation in the sport & create more exciting racing mainly because the teams aren't forced to follow a template for every race & can give it everything they have. NASCAR has already seen what giving back control of car design to the manufacturers has done in sports car racing due to their ownership of IMSA & them & the FIA basically agreeing to a set of regulations a few years ago called balance of performance that allows manufacturers to be more innovative & maximize the performance of their cars. As a result we have seen a huge increase in manufacturer participation in both the WEC & IMSA especially in the Hypercar/Prototype category though other categories have seen increases as well.
It wont, it will make it a bore fest
I hate how everyone assumes that everyone hated the looks of the COT. I was around the same age as you when they were being raced and the COT to me, looked amazing. One of my favorite gens of racecars.
I didn't like the 2007 version of the COT the 2011 version was much better and I also don't agree that the 2007 made racing better from 2007 to about 2008 the racing wasn't great then the 2009 All Star race happened but then after that not much. 2011 and 2012 where much better years.
On short tracks it's cooked, on road courses it sucks. But I will say I like the racing better than the 550 hp
NASCAR is IMSA just with oval racing people complained and wanted more RC 😐💀
Honestly I’ve been watching more xfinity than cup since 2022 because cup isn’t that good anymore.
Don’t get me wrong some of the events in cup are worth watching but since we’re talking about gen 7 things have been hit or miss mainly miss because of how it takes damage, how slow it is, the gen 7 preforming like trash, slight wall contact ending peoples days or one small part cracking and ending up breaking the whole car, and mainly it’s safety.
Honestly 2023 would’ve been a perfect year to release the gen 7 but no nascar got too excited and impatient so they ended up ending Kurt Busch’s career.
I think nascar has a list of things to fix, to adjust, and to improve on but nascars recent actions and response and his long it takes them to react I think they won’t get through half of the problems when gen 8 is arriving.
Do I have any hopes for nascar cup series: absolutely not
Do I think nascar can turn itself to success if they pay attention: nope
And do I think the gen 7 car will end more careers: possibly
Hear me out here. What if nascar went back to the process that worked for decades? Manufacturers provide or sell body parts to the teams and they build their own cars under them to the rules. It’s almost like it worked for 40 years
The irony that the Xfinity Car that everyone praises is basically the COT template improved over the years, but eveyone complained it was "too ugly, too boxy"😂
Drivers and engineers will figure this out, it just takes time, bitching and overreacting just leads Nascar to cars like the gen 6 where they focused only on the looks and ruined the racing.
In my opinion yes the next gen car prevents smaller teams like legacy and RCR from moving up the field but this season it has produced the closest finishes in NASCAR history at Atlanta, Talladega and Daytona and12 different winners already. However, the road courses have been a problem with Sonoma being some of the most predictable and boring races i have ever seen in the sport. NASCAR will not be prepared to invest what is needed into the Next-Gen car with dwindling viewing figures and empty stands but it could be a long-term gain with closer racing at road courses potentially producing surprises that bring in a new audience if the problems are fixed. They need to put skirting boards on the side of the car so that less air comes from the car in front and get rid of the diffuser so that generating downforce and following and high mid-corner speeds can be easier and better. NASCAR needs to take a page out of F1s book on this one
Is it broken or is it exactly what they wanted it to be and it just sucks?
I think there r things you’re also not considering here too. NASCAR with the bigger tire wanted to have the tires be more in touch with their street counterparts. F1 did the same cause street cars don’t really have tires that thick outside of pickups. So it kinda was necessary since NASCAR and F1 and most likely the tire manufacturers all wanted it. The 5 speed sequential gear box was more so cause…well let’s face it street cars and race cars alike don’t run a 4 speed manual gearbox anymore. Maybe semiautomatic transmission in street cars but very rare to see a H pattern gearbox. Plus street cars r having more and more gears in a transmission for better fuel economy, better towing in pickups, etc. Ya have Chevy 1500s with a 10 speed transmission with the 5.3L or 6.2L V8. I mean F1 cars r currently the only race cars with 8 speed gearboxes. And the only race cars aside from Trucks and Xfinity that have an H pattern transmission r Trans Am TA2 cars, Late Models, Modifieds, and other oval racing type cars, and some street cars stripped down and built for racing for racing during the weekend at local short tracks or circuit racing with smaller sports car series.
Also your idea of what ground effect is, it’s incorrect. Ground effect in NASCAR wasn’t done since 2003 as u say, but 2022. Ground effect is when a car uses the under body of the car to create downforce by letting air flow under the front and out the back sometimes usually by using air ducts to guide the air under the car and using side skirts to keep most of the air under the car to to keep the car sucked to the ground. Examples of ground effect cars r the current F1 cars, some of the F1 cars of the late 70s like the Lotus 79, some Group C sports cars like the Porsche 956 & 962, Jaguar XJR-9 & XJR-12, Sauber Mercedes C9 and C11, and the Peugeot 9X8 LMH r all ground effect cars. What you’re thinking of is when teams plant the splitter and skirts close to the ground to make the car more streamline since more air under the car creates drag. Less drag equals more speed which is essential for tracks like intermediates where speed is key, but still have the car setup up depending on how the chassis is built to handle in the corners. The way the Next Gen is, it’s more of a ground effect car, especially with how Hamlin and Logano have described how ya run these cars.
I absolutely hate this car, forced my favorite driver to retire, lack of horsepower, way to reliant on aero dynamics, tire blowing literally every spin, and the car is way to rigid
We did know NASCAR didn't test the car in traffic, though. The only multi-car test was a 2-car test with Kurt Busch and Martin Truex at Charlotte. I suspect they used computer simulation to design and test the cars, thinking they would be close enough. Then, when they got to Charlotte and tested it with dozens of cars, they shitted their pants because they realized the car was awful, and they had the teams save their sorry asses.
Well, I believe the teams could do the same thing now. Give the teams 3 months to come up with some changes to the car, then after the season is over, test them out at each style of track, then choose which changes worked the best and prepare to put them on the cars that season. It wouldn't have to be by the beginning of the season, but say after 10 races or something like that. That way, you get a big change during the season, which could spice things up, and you end up with a better car, designed more by the people that actually build and race the cars than by office-dwelling engineers that don't work in the real world.
I'm not blasting engineers; they're very smart people, but my dad worked in the RV industry his entire adult life, and many times he would have to fix the things that engineers designed because they didn't work in applications for one reason or another. Either the parts didn't fit right, they didn't work right, or they interfered with other things, causing more problems than they solved. My point being, let the teams solve the issues with the cars, and they will be fixed much faster than NASCAR can do it because they're better at it.
Christian Horner “CHANGE YOUR FING CAR”
Millad. Friend. I know you're not a car guy... but have you ever seen a 1970's Thunderbird? Lmao. The mock-up at 28:17 is not it, bud.
This looks strangely more like the DTM Mercedes 190E Evo II, but with only a slightly taller rear wing.
The T-Birds were long, wide and flat coupés, not weird looking truck-based sedan things lmao
Why can't we just bring back gen 6 cars, gosh I don't care if the numbers stay where they are either
NASCAR wanted to unveil the car at the start of the 2021 season, but got delayed because of COVID.
Because COVID happened they weren’t able to thoroughly test the car. Instead of waiting another year, they rushed an unfinished product and this is the end result.
Terrible decision making by the leaders of NASCAR
They never will take any big swings most people here are suggesting. Maybe softer tires. They aren't going to change the car, they don't care. People need to stop showing up if you want change
Narrow tires bump HP in it's self will help
Unfortunately, I doubt they can change the width of the tires. This car was designed for this width of tires, so changing it would likely change the entire driving characteristics of the car. They should absolutely up the HP to at least 750 though
Would help with in my opinion lol @@Mr.X2188
Taking the hp up will not do anything to help the racing. Fans have to understand this
@@TrevorPhipps-vw6kr more power more chance to get out of the groove. That's why you up the power with narrowing the tire width a bit and you get a better racing product than we have. So yes upping the power will as long as you don't do just the power alone. It's a multi part problem that needs a multi part solution.
@@r3dn3ck774c your not understanding that add more power will only just make the cars go faster the racing won’t get any better.. the only way is to completely overhaul the car
It's not the car. It's Goodyear and the bad tires they bring every week.
I believe earpy Gen 6 was were we shoulda stayed
I wouldn’t say there’s no hope for it. Granted it has multiple ridiculous flaws that the naked eye can see. However, we have seen the amazing plate and mile and a half races. Take Kansas, Daytona, Atlanta as your examples. In my opinion, While the short tracks and road courses are not nearly as good as they were 3 years ago. We can at least applaud NASCAR for at least trying something new with the tires, to at least improve the short track racing, and I think if Pheonix is going to be the championship track this year. They should make the option tire available for that race. And if NASCAR is willing to push Goodyear to make new tires to improve the racing like it would horsepower (without giving us horsepower) we should at least give them a chance, to further the development of this car 3 years in to find fixes to there flaws, while keeping the good racing that they have at bigger tracks.
They need 950 HP, a tire that wears, less downforce.
Fascia hire somebody who who's good at designing NASCAR's
We don't have more road courses and short tracks than ever. There are only 4 on the Cup schedule this season, down from 6 previously. There's no Wilkesboro or Fairgrounds like there used to be to along with Bristol, Richmond and Martinsville. Xfinity has more road courses, but not Cup.
Why can’t they just try taking the underbody and diffuser off and put a normal splitter on and see what happens
I think if Nascar would be willing to give them back their horsepower it would greatly improve the racing. We have gone to 700+ down to 500hp or less. I think it has killed the racing.
I feel Nascar will continue the idea of the next gen in some way. Either that be a straight next gen 2.0. Or a car that’s along the lines of like the gen 6 but with the single source parts and that kinda of stuff. NASCAR likes the next gen because it allowed them to do garage 56 and apparently attract Honda. It’s unknown but that’s what I think
Yep Next Gen 2.0 with Hybrid engines.
The next gen is like an empty serial box💀
NASCAR just needs to ban the splitter and ground effect downforce tbh
The dirty air problem means it only races well at multi-groove tracks. Miami, Kansas... progressive banking. Going to a ground effect system was terrible. and lack of side force + small tire sidewalls makes the cars edgy.
tried to build a car for racing without testing its ability to race
Denny Hamlin and Joey Logano both have very good points honestly I hope nascar can sort it out or if they can’t just reveal the 8th gen honestly I did like the car of tomorrow
We need a NextGen 2.0
Tires that would wear would help create passing.
This conversation is utterly ridiculous to me when we have had 2 of the greater races in NASCAR history this year, road course races IMO have been better this year than any in NG Era, and the Coke 600 has been brought back to life with this car. Plus many moments (yes some bad) since 2022 that I don’t remember hardly at all from 2017-2021. Can there be improvements? Absolutely. But it’s not as simple as put the Xfinity car in cup and everything is better! That car has 650 HP, less engineering, less SMT. It would not be the same. It’s just frustrating man
Pack racing is not good racing
Honestly with how fucked this car is in traffic and several other areas the only thing I can think of to even attempt to give it a shot at redemption is rip out the restrictor plates and say boys time to chase speed again and see if that has a chance of redeeming the damn thing
The nextgen car is in a state of no return. If and this is a big if, if Nascar decides to make changes, they should really ask for driver output. They know what's going down inside the cars, not the higher-ups. But as it stands, we just got to deal with it.