Hi Tinker Smith. I had same experience with powder not sticking sometimes. I think it has something to do with the switching power supply. Like at some exact timing of the signals, the transistor oscillator in the HV module stall. The arc jumping between the outputs triggers the circuit to work again. I would like to try using a battery as the main power supply and see if that problem still persists. When I bought the HV module, the seller's instructions says use only battery as power supply.
Just a thought: For a pos and neg charge to exist, there needs to be a capacitance between the electrodes. If they are too far away to start, there will be no opportunity for the initial current to form an excess of positive and negative charge on each "plate" so to speak. By bringing the electrodes close to each other, there is an arc, thus a current created. Once you stop the arc, there is probably a residual charge that is held in place by the EMF of the device. If you think about how a capacitor allows a current to flow for a short period of time when a voltage is applied across the capacitor plates, and flows until the charge will not be able to build up any more across the dielectric medium (determined by the size of the capacitor in Farads). In a DC circuit, the capacitor has a permanent charge while the voltage is held, but no more current flowing. I suspect what you have with your electrodes is akin to this. The electrodes are the capacitor plates, and the air gap the dielectric medium.
Nice explantation. Ill try to make it hopefully it will work 😅. And i have some question, can we made the conductor electrostatic chamber like a coil. I think if that can be adapt it will increase the eficiency, cause youve got a lot of surface to load the powder with positive ion.
I've been doing some digging on these Chinese high voltage generators and based on what I've found where people disected them, it looks like there is no real way to tell if you are positively or negatively charging the powder particles as the output is not referenced to an earth or circuit ground. This had me wondering if there could be situations where the powder would not stick at all and if the "AC" nature of the output would somehow negate the charge every cycle. If there is someone with more knowledge on high voltage generation, fly back transformers and multipliers, maybe they can chime in and enlighten us further. It obviously works as you have shown, but maybe there are a few skunks at the picnic as they say with regards to reliability. Regardless of all this I love your gun design and as soon as I can find some equivalent parts here in Canada I'm going to have a go at this myself 😊 Thanks for your work on this!
I'd be keen to know as well. Somehow I doubt it would be AC because then the polarity would have to switch back and forth. What it come be is an unstable DC supply bouncing between 0V and the high voltage. Now that it is out there, let's see what comes back.
I found this video, same concept of yours Tinker, In the minute 7:35 he shows how to identify the positive and negative, probably your video was his inspiration 👏 th-cam.com/video/8Nywhih1QJQ/w-d-xo.html
I believe it's because the tesla coil output is pulsed dc and with that big of an air gap the initial flyback doesn't happen causing the coil to stay charged instead of pulsing.
Hi.. I did my first chamber and gun for powder coating as you did, it's work perfectly. I would like to know if you tried in big parts. Did you? I intend to use in a bar 0.05x0.05x2.5meters size with 2mm thick. Of course mi next will be a big oven for that. What do you think? That configuration of 2.5a and 4volts is it ok? Let me know. And congrats to share your knowledge?
The biggest I have done are bicycle handle bars and cranks. Worked no problem at all. For me, it all comes down to what I can fit in the oven. To ensure the powder sticks to the work piece, I would start coating the metal closest to the earth wire and then move away. That way, you can be sure you are coating against metal with the highest static charge.
@@tinkersmith4615 nice, I'll try that way, probably this month my parts for a big oven will arrives, the project is already in my head.. will be nice if everything works..will work 😉
Also them cheap Chinese transformers will burn out in seconds if they are not arcing. The output wires are only supposed to be 2 or 3mm away so they can create an arc. If they are too far apart for too long they end up arcing internally and shorting the coil.there is no way to fix them as they are encased in resin
Yes and no. :) That is why I run the little DC-to-DC converter module. It holds back the amps and stops it destroying itself. I have also run tests too: th-cam.com/video/m9PIINLQBW0/w-d-xo.html
@@tinkersmith4615 i still don't see how the powder in the bottle moves around when sprayed. there is a spraying video you have but it only shows the nozzle.
@@tinkersmith4615 It sure did, sir. So you blow air in from a tube and the powder gets pushed out from the air pressure in the bottle up through a side opening at the top (of the bottle) and it moves through the exit pipe while touching the high voltage electrode along the way charging the powder particles up. Is there any difference between the flow rate of the powder when the bottle is full of powder vs when it's getting emptied?
Hi Tinker Smith. I had same experience with powder not sticking sometimes. I think it has something to do with the switching power supply. Like at some exact timing of the signals, the transistor oscillator in the HV module stall. The arc jumping between the outputs triggers the circuit to work again. I would like to try using a battery as the main power supply and see if that problem still persists. When I bought the HV module, the seller's instructions says use only battery as power supply.
Just a thought: For a pos and neg charge to exist, there needs to be a capacitance between the electrodes. If they are too far away to start, there will be no opportunity for the initial current to form an excess of positive and negative charge on each "plate" so to speak. By bringing the electrodes close to each other, there is an arc, thus a current created. Once you stop the arc, there is probably a residual charge that is held in place by the EMF of the device. If you think about how a capacitor allows a current to flow for a short period of time when a voltage is applied across the capacitor plates, and flows until the charge will not be able to build up any more across the dielectric medium (determined by the size of the capacitor in Farads). In a DC circuit, the capacitor has a permanent charge while the voltage is held, but no more current flowing. I suspect what you have with your electrodes is akin to this. The electrodes are the capacitor plates, and the air gap the dielectric medium.
Nice explantation. Ill try to make it hopefully it will work 😅. And i have some question, can we made the conductor electrostatic chamber like a coil. I think if that can be adapt it will increase the eficiency, cause youve got a lot of surface to load the powder with positive ion.
It is very nice in 18khz frequency and 25%duty cycle
I've been doing some digging on these Chinese high voltage generators and based on what I've found where people disected them, it looks like there is no real way to tell if you are positively or negatively charging the powder particles as the output is not referenced to an earth or circuit ground. This had me wondering if there could be situations where the powder would not stick at all and if the "AC" nature of the output would somehow negate the charge every cycle. If there is someone with more knowledge on high voltage generation, fly back transformers and multipliers, maybe they can chime in and enlighten us further. It obviously works as you have shown, but maybe there are a few skunks at the picnic as they say with regards to reliability. Regardless of all this I love your gun design and as soon as I can find some equivalent parts here in Canada I'm going to have a go at this myself 😊 Thanks for your work on this!
I'd be keen to know as well. Somehow I doubt it would be AC because then the polarity would have to switch back and forth. What it come be is an unstable DC supply bouncing between 0V and the high voltage.
Now that it is out there, let's see what comes back.
Great idea!
I found this video, same concept of yours Tinker, In the minute 7:35 he shows how to identify the positive and negative, probably your video was his inspiration 👏 th-cam.com/video/8Nywhih1QJQ/w-d-xo.html
I believe it's because the tesla coil output is pulsed dc and with that big of an air gap the initial flyback doesn't happen causing the coil to stay charged instead of pulsing.
Maybe it's need to orientation of electrons. Just like you how we make magnetic charged.
Hi Tinker is the generator always on when powder coating? or it's on when just spraying powder?
Mine is always on when spraying. I know there are some that have a trigger or button.
Hi.. I did my first chamber and gun for powder coating as you did, it's work perfectly. I would like to know if you tried in big parts. Did you? I intend to use in a bar 0.05x0.05x2.5meters size with 2mm thick. Of course mi next will be a big oven for that. What do you think? That configuration of 2.5a and 4volts is it ok? Let me know. And congrats to share your knowledge?
The biggest I have done are bicycle handle bars and cranks. Worked no problem at all. For me, it all comes down to what I can fit in the oven. To ensure the powder sticks to the work piece, I would start coating the metal closest to the earth wire and then move away. That way, you can be sure you are coating against metal with the highest static charge.
@@tinkersmith4615 nice, I'll try that way, probably this month my parts for a big oven will arrives, the project is already in my head.. will be nice if everything works..will work 😉
Also them cheap Chinese transformers will burn out in seconds if they are not arcing. The output wires are only supposed to be 2 or 3mm away so they can create an arc. If they are too far apart for too long they end up arcing internally and shorting the coil.there is no way to fix them as they are encased in resin
Yes and no. :) That is why I run the little DC-to-DC converter module. It holds back the amps and stops it destroying itself. I have also run tests too: th-cam.com/video/m9PIINLQBW0/w-d-xo.html
show us what the bottle with the powder looks like when its working please
Please check out my other two videos.
Generation 1: th-cam.com/video/6dXSpUkiLv8/w-d-xo.html
Generation 2: th-cam.com/video/jJ77ekVlhQo/w-d-xo.html
@@tinkersmith4615
i still don't see how the powder in the bottle moves around when sprayed.
there is a spraying video you have but it only shows the nozzle.
Does this video help: th-cam.com/video/YsN4F2naDf0/w-d-xo.html
I made it for another viewer.
Did the last video help?
@@tinkersmith4615
It sure did, sir.
So you blow air in from a tube and the powder gets pushed out from the air pressure in the bottle up through a side opening at the top (of the bottle) and it moves through the exit pipe while touching the high voltage electrode along the way charging the powder particles up.
Is there any difference between the flow rate of the powder when the bottle is full of powder vs when it's getting emptied?