How Death Note Got Bad | Big Joel
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 เม.ย. 2020
- In this video, I talk about one of my favorite shows, Death Note, and why and how it started to get, like, pretty bad. Enjoy my anime takes!
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Hey! Kinda curious to hear your thoughts on this one. I've spent way too much time now thinking about this show at this point, but always feel like I'm somehow missing something. Also, if you liked the video and want to suypport the channel, consider donating to my patreon! woooo www.patreon.com/bigjoel
My thoughts are, "I hate her with my full throbbing ass" is the best turn of phrase I've ever heard. I have never seen Death Note.
I feel like you´re not wrong but you are still a hater. LOL, love you though!!!
I feel its similar to me getting more annoyed with a show the longer my comment under a review about it becomes. I could flame The 100 for hundreds of words, but was still watching it :D
i actually had a hard time buying into the show after the first few episodes because "it's about a little edgelord baby who talks about being a god a lot," and i found the idea that a genius wouldn't see the systemic issues underlying crime to be unbelievable or at least incredibly disappointing. even though i agree that it seems to get much worse, i feel that it's more likely that i'll watch the show to the end, even knowing how the primary conflict is resolved.
I liked the video! I really thought the attention to the workings of objects was a neat observation, and that the criticism of Rem's role in L's death is dead-on. But I always recommend that people go and read the Death Note manga if they haven't, as the second part of the manga and the anime differ in some substantial ways that end up giving short shrift to the final twelve episodes of the anime. Near's deduction process is a lot more condensed in the show, to the point that a lot of his thoughts seem unprompted, and the ending is pretty different in terms of its tone--relying on a some more Buddhist themes, both in terms of content and structure, relative to the show's (very overdone) Christianity dressing.
Great job, Joel!
L: *Obviously supposed to be a disheveled weird introvert who looks like he doesn't get enough sleep*
Big Joel: hot, sexy detective
Probably because Joel sees a lot of himself in L.
I know I do.
He's not wrong
I relate to L on a spiritual level, I sit the same way and have many of the same quirks, plus I always kinda knew what he was about to do which was interesting to me on first watch, while Kira I found hard to really predict as his behavior was often kinda erratic
Is he wrong though?
L is still gorgeous though
"light yagami is a sexy hot boy genius" incorrect, you know he's the guy in class playing 'devil's advocate'
@@chaoticgood12 because he is not but everyone else with power is dumb at least that the impression the show left me with
Ohh god
Light: From my perspective, the Jedi are evil!
@@KAXSH the jedi are incompetent moral busy bodies.
disagree bad
One thing that disappointed me was no one said "hey....you know sometimes innocent people are convicted? Sometimes people are framed? Kira could have been killing innocent people from the beginning by accident."
Light definitely knew he was going to be killing some innocent people by accident during his purge of criminals and I guess he justified it as a small sacrifice that was unavoidable in order to create the better world.
I think there should have been more emphasis on that yeah. I dislike the idea that Light "just had his own way of justice".
Nope, definitely not.
The man literally killed *unconvicted* suspects without any research, killed people already in jail, used innocent people to conduct murders (ex. Car accidents).
(Unpopular opinion) I think L is a good person.
But definitely not Light
@@dream-lh4pc I thought the Death Note made it so that only whoever's name is written in it will die, not anyone that happens to be around
And there's a scene in the series where Light is mad with the business man Kira because of him killing genuinely remorseful people, people who never intended to harm, or those in dire circumstance (ie in self defense).
Light never intended to kill innocents, he just slowly progressed into it by the final episode
“It literally just didn’t occur to me that there might be socio-economic reasons as to why a lot of people are forced into committing crimes. It literally just never crossed my mind.”
- Light Yagami
@Cringe-Gamer - this actually conflicts with the first episode where he literally says that he wants to kill those who feel bad about their crimes
i see the tennis match, phone call, etc as a character study of the immense paranoia of Light. it’s showing us how obsessed Light is with maintaining appearances down to the smallest minutiae
That’s how I thought of it. He’s so scared of being caught and so determined to stay one step ahead that he can’t tell the difference between things that matter and things that don’t anymore
@@TheReluctantVlogger But he can't know what will matter. As Joel says, something may turn out to be a dead end but that can only be known by investigating it. So it's not simple paranoia, it's actual competence and thoroughness. Later he becomes more paranoid and illogical, but what you're pointing out isn't those cases
I also see that details as characterisation of Light
@@AB-et6nj But L saying he suspects of him make Light uncomfortable and nervous
@@Antonio-ej8wp If the best detective in the world suspected you for a crime you in fact committed, you'd be right to be uncomfortable and nervous lol. Those feelings are good in general, because it's your body alerting you to a problem
The real victory in Death Note is that Matsuda spent the entire show on the task force and never got caught in the crossfire. I marked him at the beginning as my favorite and he made it all the way through unharmed. 10/10.
the only good person in the entire show
But his character was poorly written and unnecessary to the plot
@@appleslover ok? Your opinion
Matsuda is the third smartest person in the series
Ikr, my man Matsuda deserves some respect
"Why are we still watching this, I hate all of these people"
-my boyfriend a few episodes after L's arc
YES
I read the entire manga, which is why when I watched the anime recently I stopped after L's death
@@justwannafreefx9419
I read the manga and dropped it very early into it when misa first got introduced. It's kinda lame.
I actually never watched much after that, just a few episodes. I did read the manga, tho. but yeah, the show could end in L's death and it would be fine, maybe even better.
😂 😂 😂
It is so common in anime for women characters to just end up being someone who has a crush on a male character even if they have a promising introduction.
but in death note, there is a logical reason for Misa to be like that
Very true, when Misa is introduced and tells the story about her parents and all I thought they would elaborate on that more and giving her any other motivation than just "Light is so handsome I wanna make him my bf"
Misa was a lot more than that. One of the main reasons why she fell for Light was because he was the one who killed the murderer of her family, thus delivering "justice" for her. She knew him only as Kira but from this point on she was devoted to him and she felt indebted to him.
She was also saved by Gelus, who gave his life for her. Rem gave Misa his book as his dying wish, and she used this opportunity to make a deal with Rem for the Shinigami eyes so she could find Light. With the eyes she figured out Kira's whereabouts and true identity as Light, and she gets overwhelmed with emotions, falling in love with him. Misa's love and devotion for Light results in her desire to serve and protect him with her life.
Unfortunately her desire becomes obsessive as she's willing to kill people and also accept her own death. This is because in her mind she has nothing left to live for if Light gets caught and executed for his crimes. He represents everything that has ever meant anything to her.
Misa is an emotionally and ideologically complex character with very well reasoned ideas, goals and actions.
You're reducing that to her having a crush on some dude. That's not fair to her character.
@@unkellgrga9223 Please tell me you're not being serious. You really see no connection between those two things? Was your mind turned off during the show or something? Because it sounds like you just watched the show for "hurr hurr smart guy do smart thing"
@@ETBrooD she was also a dumb blonde(and sexual) bimbo, a common male fantasy. Let us not forget that
Honestly Misa had such missed potential. She lost her parents in a traumatic event, but that's brought up like once. Her character was criminally underdeveloped. Also why does L not have eyebrows in the show, give him back his eyebrows.
imo L's lack of eyebrows makes him look more distinctive :)
misa was underdeveloped as a character so lost depth, L was underdeveloped as a human and lost his eyebrows
I never really felt that annoyed by Misa to be honest, I only ever felt pity for her. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why anyone would be irritated by her. But she's actually a pretty accurate portrayal of people who throw away their entire lives to devote themselves to a cult leader.
l completely agree with this take - I think her joining the show allows the writers to better highlight how much more Light has begun to think of himself, and how he is more willing to use other people, even if innocent, to achieve his goal. I don’t think the show suffers from this, I think it allows the character development to shine.
tbh i thought she was super unbearable but this is a genuinely interesting perspective and if I ever get around to watching the show again I think keeping this idea in mind might make it more interesting
Well said
It also reminds me of "crazy fangirls"... there are some out there who would spend all their money and leave anything behind for their idols. They think they are in love and some even think they stand a chance. Some "idols" actually do take advantage of that.
Also she completely forced herself into Light's life I hate when people take away Misa's agency
After L’s death, the show was obviously just having its potato chip and eating it too
The show will take a potato chip...AND EAT IT!
Over a decade later and people still don't understand the importance and significance of L's death
the issue isn't that L died. The issue is that Near didn't win in an interesting way.
It doesn't help that the show became far less interesting the moment L died. Near was mini L for all intents and purposes, so the writer himself is admitting he needed L lol
yummy meme my bro
I like the japanese live action changes to the ending better than the source material actually. In the movie when L sensed that the case was close to be completed and that he could die for it, he wrote his own name on the death note, saying that he would die peacefully after 23 days (which I believe is the maximum possible). He did this so that he wouldn't die within the 23 dies even if kira or a shinimagi write his name on the note. So he had enough time to incriminate Light with his theory. But also died for the case.
the hell that is AWESOME
@@MasonHZilla right? I think it was a pretty neat way of wrapping up the series using the internal logic of the death note.
It is just not very satisfactory that light is defeated by the two new guys. In this other ending L wins, but he also has to give his life in the process. Closing all loose ends and giving a bitter sweet intelligent ending. The movies are not super good though lol, I just like the ending.
thats genuinely so much more true to character with everything the show built up about L
the musical has a pretty killer ending too, I have to admit its a little to abrupt for my liking but its more interesting than the anime imo
As a former Gifted kid, I can say with certainty that Light exhibits the exact sort of sociopathy that is nurtured in children who are told that they're smarter than everybody else. I eventually grew out of it, but far too many of my peers got really into "objectivism."
I agree. I was a medschool fast tracker but ended up extending my undergrad to get a second degree in philosophy because I felt like it completely changed my outlook on life, others, and myself. I went from a stuck up science nerd that was egotistical and rubbed everyone wrong to someone way more chill and genuinely interested in people's thoughts and the morality of the world I live in and how I treat others. I became extremely empathetic to patients and never get frustrated with patients like a lot of my peers. I've even debated going fully into medical ethics and methods. Getting a degree where your assumption is that you're always wrong and have to challenge yourself to really mull over your opinions and thoughts and argue against yourself through the mindset of opposition... It really changed my life for the better. I look back at who I used to be and feel terrible for how I viewed others.
The manga more heavily implies that Light created the Kira persona as a way to justify to himself how he just killed two people extra-judicially because he was curious. He couldn’t handle being anything less than completely perfect because he spent his whole life being the perfect student/son. The reason he used the death note in the beginning is because he was bored with his supposedly perfect life and almost wanted to hope that something interesting would happen. Despite all his talk about becoming god, that was never, ever his true motivation - he just wants to justify to himself why he uses the note, with the real reason being because he sees it as a way to reduce his boredom in life. That’s why he laughs with exhilaration whenever his plan goes his way, it’s not because he’s evil so he has to laugh like a villain, it’s because he’s entertained, it’s because he’s having a twisted version of fun. And he’s been raised in such a way to think that he’s perfect, so it’s all about him. He doesn’t care about other people, certainly not the people he killed, and not the people he’s supposedly saving either. He just cares about himself and his little game.
Lmaoo okay bro
former? how does that work? you exited the gifted program? (not sure if this is an actual thing)
also yeah, it's satisfying to flex your superior intelligence by destroying someone with facts and logic!!! haha!!!
crazy how that works, schadenfreude I guess
Once L died I was just in this constant frustrated state waiting for Light to die
I swear, when that happened I skipped to the last few episodes to make sure he died or was at least caught
I only finished Death Note because by that point I hated Light enough to want to see him die.
I was among the sad little weebs reading the manga as it was coming out/getting fan translated, along with all of my nerd friends...and yea I was just kind of hate reading after L died. Then my ass accidentally predicted the ending in a "wouldn't it be cool if..." scenario to a truly odd degree of specificity. So I was screaming with joy/triumph when it came out, and some folks I knew were SO UPSET. Feels now like foreshadowing for people getting way too obsessed with terrible protags in...everything else. It was weird.
@@sarabellum7938/videos I don't get how some fans were disappointed to see Light die. I like him as a character, but Yagami is no hero (or anti-hero) of any sort already a couple of episodes in. He is a villain and he clearly is a monster.
I wish they had just destroyed each other. Fuck the police and their spoiled kids with god complexes
"Misa is a simp for Light".
Someone finally said it
Yes, someone finally called Misa a recent trend word, incredible
@@matheusrhuzzo6115 you must be fun at parties.
"I hate her with my full throbbing ass"
- Big Joel
She wants to get into Light's pants.
@@matheusrhuzzo6115 Exactly.
I know it was a throw away line but I do wanna defend the opening bc I do genuinely love it. To me the biblical imagery of Light being portrayed as a Jesus figure or Christ like is not only
A: Incredibly funny every time
B: an accurate portrayal of how this pretentious high school boy views himself.
I never saw it as a depiction of how the show views Light. I think the show is pretty clearly written to portray his ego and immaturity, having him make several stupid decisions that lead the investigation team right to him. Like the whole ray penber thing was sooo funny bc the guy was literally about to stop following him and report that he was just some kid but Light had to orchestrate an incredibly detailed and elaborate plan to kill him bc killing people who threaten his authority is more important to him then Anything lol
I partially wonder if the show is ever saying, yes, Light is like God- and that's a bad thing. I'd have to rewatch it, which I don't want to do, but there's a lot of bible quotes and things that treat god as vengeful and imposing. Light is passing his own eternal judgment, d*mning people, just like God would, and if it sucks for Light to do it, maybe it sucks for God to do it, too.
There's also the depiction of Kira's followers towards the end that kind of play into this "Christian-critical" idea. The way they're often shown as a violent mob, quick to condemn; the way that people use Kira's judgment as a threat ("I'll post your name and photo online!!"); the way that con men keep rising to the top (the people at Sakura TV building their scam temple).
Idk, that might all be giving it too much credit, but that'd be a video essay I suppose
This!! I mean L himself describes Light as immature and childish on NUMEROUS occasions. He even cites his proof as himself. The characters of Death Note are never supposed to be seen as perfect godlike creatures despite how others prop them up for their intellect and wit-all the characters at play are simply humans, people with strengths and flaws and the like. The only gods are the Shinigami, and they are just as flawed as the humans. The religious symbolism in Death Note is Flawless not only because it directly reflects Light's perspective as the protagonist and his end goal from the series beginning, BUT helps to frame the entire show aesthetically and it's themes. Just like the Bible, Death Note is a *STORY*. Whether you believe in God and Christianity or not, what the Bible tells is a story, and the writers deliberately draw parallels not to tell the audience that their protagonist is God, but to portray the themes of good and evil, justice, and other huge overarching themes that all stories, especially the Bible, explore (the Bible being one of the most well known and influential stories to do so).
I like Death Note but I have never been so hyped and so disappointed to realise the show and the shinigami has nothing to do with the imagery
And also Light literally describes himself as the god of the new world
It's also worth pointing out that the OP uses biblical imagery... but not in a way that depicts Light as being a Christ analogue.
The final shot of OP has Light standing in front of a stained glass image of an angel. But the specific angel he's standing in front of is Lucifer.
The only time the OP directly references Jesus was in the depiction of the Pieta, with Kiyomi Takada taking the place of Mary, and her fiancee taking the place of Jesus. Both of them being victims of Light. If this analogy were followed through, that would make Light's analogue Pontius Pilate.
Other than Lucifer and Pontius Pilate, the main person who the OP compares Light to is Adam - with the constant apple imagery, and the the specific recreation of the Creation of Adam.
It very much uses a ton of Biblical imagery, but not in a way that's meant to portray Light in any kind of sympathetic or Christ-like manner.
I'm just mentioning this 'cause no one's said it and it's kind of minor, but Ryuk's role in the show changed between halves as well. In the first half he did a lot of exposition, but he also got to shine and show off his personality. He was a good source of comedic relief, and he was charming. In the second half, that was practically all gone. His presence was solely to move the plot forward or provide more exposition. He was pretty much gone for the second half, and when we do see him, he's kinda just standing in the background for decoration.
B m
In the first half he makes it clear he won't change the game, he'll just answer questions and watch it all play out.
It was frustrating when in the second half the Shinigami were way too involved, avoiding answering questions of humans that touched the note and so on.
The author himself said that he added Misa to the plot cuz he realized there was no woman. So yeah, he did an awful job at writing female personas
which is of cause, not a crime.
At least he had good intentions I guess
@kollie79 the problem in itself is thay it seems that his view on women are pretty bad. You look at all female characters and, well... They all have some kind of submissive personality. If he choose to portrait all female characters the same way, you can't really think he values women in general
But doesn't Death Note have two authors?
@@agushernandez6083 Ohba is the writer, Obata is also a mangaka but works mainly as an illustrator and always works alongside another writer. If you watch Bakuman, which is their other manga, you'll see they basically made a manga thinking about themselves (Bakuman is a history about mangakas)
I think this was an elaborate ruse for Big Joel to show off his goth gf...
all according to keikaku
cardcaptorclaire I understood that reference
mothcub more like gothcub
goth waifu
15:50
I thought the tennis game was meant to be a parallel to L and Light’s literal back and forth of each trying to shut down the other. They are both presented as being insanely talented at tennis, representing their extreme skill and intelligence. On the outside, it’s just a tennis match, but in their own heads, you can see there is so much going on and so much effort to maintain appearances (For example, Light is always described as the top student but a serious high schooler, while L is always trying to maintain his anonymity). In the end, it is Light who makes the final blow and beats L, much like how in the end of the first half of the series, Light’s plan comes together perfectly and L is unable to put together all the pieces fast enough.
TLDR: the tennis game is a metaphor
This. Light and L are a retelling of Sherlock and Moriarty. The tennis game was just a Japanese teen boy version of an-overwrought-chess-game-as-metaphor.
@@vysharra no
Plus, the first score of the game catches Light off guard, in the same way he was caught off guard when L put a deaths row actor on tv to pinpoint Lights location
It is, he misunderstood the scene
Yeah. Thought their thoughts in the game mirrored their stand off and gave insight into just how obsessive and borderline crazy they both are. Thought while Lights paranoia was somewhat understandable I still dont know what L wanted to get out of it. So it felt more like characterisation exposition.
A point in Misa's favor is that it's pretty fun to have someone on the show who can get under Light's skin so unintentionally. There's a moment where she starts using his first name right away and he objects so she comes up with the worst nickname possible and he hates it so much that he just lets her use his first name. She has this accidental genius and she throws a nice wild card into the mix. It's the same reason I enjoy a character like chika in Kaguya-Sama: Love is War. Two super geniuses being accidentally outplayed by a perceived air head is a lot of fun. I will agree however that the execution on the overall plot is still lackluster as it is very unsatisfying that light doesn't take out L on his own but rather just uses Misa and Rem to do it for him. She should have stayed a temporary curve ball just like all the other people in Light's way instead of becoming essential to the L and Light battle of wits.
I always thought the self importance was because the show is from Light's perspective, and he's an egomaniac.
I honestly think that works to the show's detriment, especially by the end. Everything was always from Light's perspective, so are we supposed to cheer when he dies?
Although it was obvious from the get go that Light was a bad person, I think the show fails spectacularly in conveying the reason why - in fact it doesn't try to do it at all.
@@kiharapata I usually sell the show to people by saying it's from the villain's perspective. Light is a narcissist and kind of a fascist who is trying to turn the world into a police state with him in control. He's not a good dude by any measure.
@@upchuckles243/videos Yup, not just egomaniac. Light is a full blown narcissistic monster.
@@upchuckles243 Yagami is an awful person (and Misa, too), but he sadly did a job most police forces failed to do in the fictional universe of the franchise. Without justifying his methods or his character arc, he DID significantly bring down terrorism, street crime and so on. I think L and Interpol also aren't justified in the sense that they could clearly use their resources and manpower to Hunt other criminals, but appear unwilling too.
@@martinramirez21 do you really think that the death penalty is adequate for crimes that don't involve someone dying? That someone who robs a house might be reformed?
But more to the point, there is no shortage of statistics showing that the death penalty is not effective. It only punishes people who might be innocent in the most irreversible and worst way imaginable. Taking away the effects death row has on people.
If the people in the show stopped committing crimes that makes them terrified and that is a dictatorship
why isn’t anyone taking about the walking talking pillar of sex appeal that is Ryuk.
What
Based
JOOSHY
Totally random cool fun fact: Shinigami can't have sex
@@khatunamezvrishvili6211 fun fact, I'll try it anyway
The first time I watched DN, I thought Misa was annoying, but the most recent time I did (the 3rd), i felt like she was more tragic than anything. She feels nothing for anyone or anything besides this elusive Kira (who avenged her parents, sorta), and she just wanted a life purpose. So, she bet it all on Light, and when she did, she deluded herself into thinking she was in love because she made him to be all that was left to keep herself together. I also like that, for all her tragedy, she is the most bubbly character, and I actually missed her once she became essentially irrelevant after L dies.
"death note is a trashy show" i've literally never heard anyone ever say that
yeah that statement got me. like excuse me, i was with you up to a point, but now i'm REALLY not with you on that one.
Yeah, that just ruined this video
@Artlooker why do you think that?
@Artlooker i respect your opinion, but why?
Death note is great but in the later episodes it felt like filler and just build up for the pay off in the beginning of the show writing build ups and payoffs were so entertaining also near was the worst fight me
The line “I hate her with my full throbbing ass” made me go into convulsions and I passed away. Thank you Joel
😭😭
My favourite thing about big joel is hearing him say things like 'my full throbbing ass' in his video-essay cadence
I go NUTS for that soundtrack, oh MY GOD. It works magic in my heart. The choirs and bells that celebrate Light's victories sound like a funeral. There are these rock anthems with nearly grating distorted guitars, where the melodies sound like what it feels like to cry. It's perfect for Death Note.
Check out Kaiji - same composer, and the soundtrack is 1-to-1 for death note's vibes
i think part of what makes it really work is that it helps cement the idea, subconciously, that even when Light scores a win, he's just digging himself _just_ that little bit further into his own grave
The show's problem with women was perfectly apparent in how fetishistic Misa's first imprisonment was. Tied up and gagged but still looking sexy and making small, scared sounds. I didn't expect them to do any better after that.
I was always conflicted about Light's plan to get back the Death Note. It did seem the kind of complex that tries to look smart but is just unnecessarily convoluted - plus the fact that we spend most of the episodes where Light is imprisoned being confused af, not being given enough clues to piece things together ourselves, we just get the plot twist by the end of that arc and are expected to go "Wow!"
And well, I love that you described the last part as pointless and annoying enough to not warrant any analysis, because that's exactly what it is. Kind of a shame that a show that started off so smart went off the rails like that.
The show doesn't have that problem though? The show itself is incredibly aesthetic. From L's exaggerated lanky body to Light's own face and body. Every frame of Death Note drips with style, so when it portrays Misa like that it isn't fetishistic asmuch as it is consistent with the show's visual language.
Also the twist isn't badly written by any means, it wasn't a detective plot, consistent with every other plot point of the show here. The error of a thriller plot comes in when the plan itself is inconsistent with actions or words we've seen earlier. It isn't bad to hide things from the audience but it's bad when you can't draw a through line between the truth and the action.
The poster for the show itself encapsulates it perfectly. She's just a girl in an upskirt, according to the presentation.
How is Misa portrayed as sexy when she's first imprisoned? Because she's showing legs?
Yes, she is making scared noises... because she's scared. I know some creeps are turned on by that, but how does that count as sexualization in this context?
@@cobycoba the only female character with a brain is murdered almost immediately vs literally everyone else
@@overgrownkudzu That most certainly isn't the case. Plenty of women stay involved in the plot. The female detective on the other hand was a very dear character too the author who he developed to challenge Light, but he basically wrote himself into a corner because of how much he made her solve the case so he had to have write confront her sooner then planned.
Also, he wrote her. The only reason you found her smart was because of the writer.
The stage play did one thing right: Once L dies, Ryuk gets bored and kills Light. I would’ve done the same if I could.
Goddamn lmao, does that really happen? Galaxybrain/10
mooganify yes it’s how everything concludes
Better yet, make him confess everything on the spot and explain it all to his father while desperately attempting to justify himself.
Haha great
a death note video without the potato chip scene? i never thought i’d see the day
Rioty well, it DID have the scene, just not the vocals with the scene
@@rileyosteen6470 A great show of restraint.
6:48
I saw your comment, AND REPLIED TO IT!
I knew something was missing...
Yeah, my overall impression was that the writing quality of the show went down after L's death.
The thing that intrigued me about the show was the game of cat and mouse between Light and L. The both of them represent a part of the theme of "justice" in the story. Light believes that bad people deserve cruel and swift punishment and believes that he can decide who is right or wrong. L believes in the system of judgement before punishment. They are both the same, but this mindset is where they differ. The story doesn't tell us which is right or wrong and lets us choose, but then instead of diving into these themes and exploring the mindset of both characters for a much more compelling story, the writers elect to kill L for nothing more than shock value. There was no foreshadowing at all in the manga( or maybe there was and I don't remember) and just that one rain scene in the anime in the same episode. It didn't do justice to L's character. I personally believe that L should have been the one to stop Light since they went through all this trouble to set the both of them up as foils, but then they killed off L and so, they failed in presenting both sides of the theme of justice. It appears in the end that Light has done good in the world since crime rates have gone down by 70% and this leads a lot of people to take Light's side, since we didn't get to really experience L's side.
One could argue that the Near and Mellow arc was the continuation of L's efforts. But why? There was no need to kill L at all. Look, I really love Near, but it's really obvious that he was only brought in because L was dead and they didn't know what to do. They were trying to push the idea that it was L's victory in the end, that Near and Mello just finished his work, but it wasn't really portrayed well. Because L lost when he died already, right? This was NEAR's victory, which was not what the show was trying to portray. They wanted L's presence to be felt, but I didn't. It doesn't help that Near seemed to be able to pull the answers out of nowhere. L should have ended it. It should have ended with one of them dying at the very end. Not at the middle. It doesn't make sense storywise either. What did they want to tell us with L's death? That Light's philosophy is correct? There was just no reason, they just did it, and it weakened the rest of the story. Not to mention the number of L fangirls/ fanboys(myself included) who had to stop watching after L died for a while or altogether(ngl, L's death absolutely destroyed me. I had to take a break).
In the end, after L, the show felt devoid of what made it so special, the thematic and visual conflict between Light and L. Light started becoming sloppy, Near was never fooled by Light... what brought me in was not there anymore. I will not say that the second half was bad or was a pain to get through, because it wasn't but...idk, man. I never experienced the same feelings I experienced while watching the first half.
In the end, due to its decision to kill L, Death Note was unable to explore its theme fully. They really tried to carry on L's legacy, but they didn't do it well. I'll say this though- Near is a badass and the last scenes in both anime and Manga were masterpieces in their own rights, even if most of the second half was a let-down. But then everything changed...when the live action attacked.
I agree completely with this, and maybe it's because I love L, but if there's no other character I can emotionally attach to then that's a problem. Also, fine, kill L, but then his replacement should be as interesting if not more than he was for it to be successful, but that's impossible when they only get 10 episodes while L got 25. It's also impossible since both Near and Mello are nothing more than extensions of L, they're not their own people and their entire identities revolve around L. So we have neither L nor any new, different character who can replace him, instead we get something in between that's just...meh. It doesn't work. It also made Light's death much less cathartic, 'cause they can pretend that L "symbolically" caught Light, but the fact is that he didn't, that L never got to see Light's downfall. So it doesn't really feel like a true victory like it would've if L had lived,
I could not possibly have written this ANY better. Pulled the thoughts straight from my head!!!!! Perfectly written
I’m not as eloquent as you but I agree with everything you said. L and Light are the reason why people watch death note. They represent two versions of justice. I really don’t see a reason why L had to die. It just doesn’t make sense to me...like the only one I can really think of is the writers didn’t know how to keep the story going with L alive without Light getting caught soon
I really think that the task force and soichiro should have taken Light down. That would have been a more authentic representation on L's will. Also, Light ( way more visible in the manga) loves his family. He does care about their opinion, especially his father. Everytime Soichiro said something disparaging about Kira, Light would get uncomfortable or downtrodden. It gutted him that his father thought he was bad person, not just because he was his father but also because Sochiro was a representation of the upstanding people that should be in the world( according to light). There is so much influence Sochiro had on Light. Light being caught by his father, and Soichiro seeing him for who he really is...that would devastate the both of them. PEAK INVESTMENT!!
Also, Light being caught by the task force would actually vindicate Nears little speech at the end of Light being not special. He was caught by the people he manipulated. Regular men who didn't go to a super training school. Near and Mello just prove the point that Light IS special. It took 3 geniuses to get him, and he had a horrible reign of 6-7 years.
I second your thoughts. Seeing those guys trying to outwit each other was so fascinating, was never a ‘fanboy’ of L but he definitely was one of the pillars of the show, to get rid of him so cheaply was so dissapointing, L being there till the last episode would've been so much more intriguing. L and Light were not just mere characters but two different ideologies in clash, everytime they interacted with each other they were churning substance for the show, as viewers we being caught up between the two had us invested in what we believed in, of what our ‘idea of justice’ was. Losing L was like losing everything the show was worth watching for. Light kind of fell off after L's death, Near was a corny character, almost like a caricature, Mellow on the other side was reckless, both these characters don't add upto even half of what L stood for. At the end they tried to sell that if both Mellow and Near work together they could compensate for L, well, I wouldn't buy that since I never got see their chemistry besides that one particular episode. Plus, I never really got to understand Near's character, seemed like a cheap replacement for L, making him look like a genius without adding enough weight behind this claim, it made him look so corny.
Also, the secret of the Death Note I feel was revealed too early, the Death Note's secret was the usp of the show. Keeping it intact till the end would've been a whole different story, a story we deserve.
To sum it all up, although it's a decent watch overall, things went downhill after L's death, it was bland and boring.
Also, Light's fate was pretty much determined the time Ryuk warned him about the fate of the Death Note beholder, hence his death didn't surprise me at all, it would've been a huge surprise for me had Light succeeded in the end.
Ngl L was the hottest emo boy I’ve ever seen and he did it effortlessly-😼🤚
😍
cringe?
Light is the emo one if anything.
Pretty bold and brave from Large Joel to come out as a weeb.
This is why he is the biggest and strongest of all Joels.
normal brain: anime ending where light kills l and it takes years for another detective he has less of a connection to to catch him
big brain: jpn live action movie ending where l defeats light by manipulating the rules of the death note to save himself from rem
galaxy brain: musical ending where light defeats l and them ryuk says 'aight if he's dead i'm out' and just kills light then and there
Drama brain: Light is dumber and was corrupted by Ryuk, L becomes his friend, tries to save him, and dies for it. Light gets killed by female Near because he's still a college student facing literal detectives.
I honestly enjoyed the live action Japan films than the anime/manga for some reason lol.
netflix brain: aight they're all stupid
I guess I have a big brain because that’s the canon ending for me.
Why do you not capitalize L
The author himself said that he added Misa because he realized there were no women in the story. Also Naomi was supposed to play a more important part in the story but the author thought she was too intelligent and she was gonna figure out who Kira was quick so he got rid of her. But thankfully the writer realized that she was an interesting character and decided to give her a prominent role in the side novel, Death Note: Another Note.
I love how he had that realization and did the most basic-ass thing of making a sexdoll with no brain who nags and makes life harder but looks fuckable while tied up. Very original.
at that point I prefer no representation over bad representation
Wasn’t that side novel written by someone else?
i do like that the character of misa proves he has never felt the touch of a woman
Absolute cringe comment.
Death Note's portrayal of women is one of it's most glaring flaws. The smartest female character , Naomi Misora, appears and dies in one episode and all other female characters serve as eye candy or plot devices with zero depth. When Light's sister appears in the kidnapping episode, she is sexualized by Matsuda, a much older man, and everyone laughs like it's nothing. If he had an ugly character design, this would be so obviously creepy if it isn't already. Wedy takes orders and dies shortly after. Lidner does little and is sexualized when she's threatened by Mello after showering. Takada and Misa are solely motivated by their devotion to Light, and Rem dies because of her love for Misa. When all female characters are under the authority of men, are motivated solely by love and devotion (not justice like the men), and have so few lines, you can't convince me the authors haven't failed to represent women realistically.
All the genius characters are male: Light, L, Near, Mello, and all the important characters are male: task force men and corporate tycoons. The authors had the opportunity to make some of these characters female, but they chose not to. I'm not saying the series should have an equal amount of female and male characters, what I'm saying is the series would benefit from better treatment of it's female characters. Diverse portrayals of women and men demonstrates good writing and widens the pool of people who could wholeheartedly enjoy the series.
It’s pretty clear to me that the writers had basically no critical thought towards Japan’s deep-rooted and antiquated misogyny. I mean, the patriarchy is a global thing but it feels like a very culturally specific thing. Like the treatment of the female characters is Japan’s view of women, condensed. I am Japanese btw.
Yea sometimes u just forget that everything doesn't need to represent the things in the way u want, why do u think everyone needs to writes stories where women are equal to men?
@@Ailacatailuthe clearer thing is u r brainwashed or hurt by men on real life that's why u r making stuff up
@@Ailacatailu idk. I think the original comment is entirely spot on but also, that's just not what the story is about. Like yes, it IS a problem that all the female characters suck, yes it IS a problem that the way they're portrayed sucks. But also, Deathnote is so not about that kind of social issue. It still sucks that they did it they way the did it but I guess what I'm trying to say is, I wouldnt expect much more from an anime that not only came out at the time and in the culture that it did but also didn't really deal with those topics at all. That doesn't mean that they didn't screw it tf up lol, they still did.
@@masync183 Portraying women in a normal way isn't "dealing with those topics" or tackling any specific social issue. It is simply a portrayal of reality as it is. It is not inherently political to *not* portray all women as idiots and only give important roles to men. It only seems like this is the default because sexism is so ingrained in us. And the more ingrained it is, the more it comes out in someone's writing. Writing a more realistic balance would not change the plot or story at all- it would simply reflect our reality more closely.
I can't vouch for her portrayal in the anime, but Misa never bothered me when I read the manga. Honestly, her character being centered around her devotion to her idea of Kira does help establish how dangerous and unpredictable a cult of personality can be, and how things can easily slip out of your grasp once they expand beyond the smallest level. Also, I've never been the type to be bothered by "annoying" female characters, so maybe I'm just biased in favor of her or something. That being said, I can see your reasoning in her character's impact on the plot being where it shifts from the early quality of relatively low stakes to less intimate and less satisfying high stakes.
She didnt bother me in the sub
I am torn between your response and the video's message. I actually thought the girl who died in a fire was not played in the erotic way that Joel stated. To me, it was always one of the most uncomfortable parts of the show. It really seemed to add to the cruelty of Light. I was narrative rooting for Light until that point (not morally obviously). For me, it played an important role in shifting my perspective of the show.
Going back to Misa, I do think her inclusion in the story at times does weigh it down. She is not used sparingly, and I think DOES fit into the criticism of the video. This is less apparent in the manga, but still exists IMO. If anything, the shows treatment of women does spur conversation and thought about the topic. So at least it has that going for it.
I agree with the CoP idea. It can be very dangerous you are right.
But I feel like annoying character as a descriptor might be simply people applying their own biases to a show be it misogyny or xenophobia or what have you. Unless the character is intentionally written in that manner it is a subjective label that doesn't add to the conversation but aims to derail it. I find this character annoying vs they are inherently right? Cause as you said you don't find them annoying. Just as I found Light to be insufferable.
Misa is probably the product of, at least in the anime, of the lost translation of a devotee to Light. In that she is feminine (in a kind of misogynistic way) and enthralled. She has little depth because the writers and possibly localizers (both subs and dubs) didn't think to add any character develop other than how she interacts with dudes. She is the anti-Legally blonde, the shallow woman defined not through herself but through others read through femininity. Femininity for femininity's sake but still a whole and complete person/character.
I didn't find her annoying insofar as pitiful. She was in love with an idiot and probably hasn't been told she can accomplish much in life and that isn't her fault.
I like her cuz she’s hot but also because she’s legit funny AF 🤣🤣🤣
And in the manga Misa becomes the leader of a cult dedicated to Kira, so you’re 100% correct about her dangerous devotion
Michael Hudgins You know, Light had every intention of killing Misa earlier on if it wasn’t for Rem. So I don’t know why it took you so long to question the morality of supporting Light.
Death Note is the perfect show to watch for adolescents who begin taking themselves too seriously
@Cats are Awesome Squid girl is perfect anime for adults who learn to stop being serious :)
I feel like Death Note is a show that you watch as an tween, get obsessed about it, then grow up a bit more and start cringing at yourself so you automatically stay away from it... And then you grow up a bit more, go back to it, and are like "hell yeah", but seeing all its flaws and mistakes.
or you are a shippers who wants new flavors in your ships.
@Surfyun tell my age please. i think what light did was right. i don't actually like his character that much, but kira actually saved lives. A LOT OF LIVES.
1000000%
still a great show though
i noticed that at the beginning of the show I was so captured in what was happening, but shortly after L died, the focus changed completely and it was almost like I wasn't watching the same show. Light was so different as the show progressed and he seemed a lot more careless than he was in the beginning and it caught up to him in the end. Watching Mikami end his own life after watching Light's defeat was him realizing that the view he had on justice wasn't completely realistic and even the one he called his "God" was able to be wrong. He's the true embodyment of the saying "never meet your idols". His character really had nothing else to it other than being devoted to "good vs evil", which he had a very 2 dimensional view on. I also really like how the show ended, Light running away and reminiscing on his past. He had become so confident in himself and his ego came crashing down on him when Near explained how he had outsmarted him. Light was thinking about the first day that he had gotten the death note and his journey to where he was now. To me, im dying all alone was symbolic for his new personality having no one to truely love him. Misa only loved him because he was kira, after he was a huge asshole to her.
basically, I agree with a lot of the points being made in this but I feel like it's missing some of the true meanings of some scenes. Not all of the season post L's death is meaningful, but it could have been better taken advantage of.
I actually like Misa. Her immaturity and complete devotion towards Light makes me feel sorry for her rather than annoyed. After watching her family get murdered and witnessing the release of that murderer it makes sense that she has an unhealthy headspace. Light was the first person to give her "justice" in her situation, and coupled with the lack of support system she latches onto him for happiness.
I love a good female redemption story and I think she has a lot of potential as a character, so I enjoy her portrayal in fanfics more than in canon. A lot of Misa fanfics focus on her gaining agency and leaving Light, it's great.
There was so much potential for complexity to her character. It's just too bad it wasn't used well.
I thought she was annoying at first but she got better. I like her now
Coming back to the show after a decade between watches, I agree. She's not the brightest but she doesn't deserve to be manipulated by Light. She got a death note before she could finish grieving and made bad choices and clung to an asshole. After L dies she's just being left at home to do Kira's work while Light plays games with the detectives. At that point I was just screaming at my tv "dump his nasty ass".
Me too. I felt proud for her. Loyalty of that measure is a rarity.
@@InkyCakes right! And the fact that he made her quit her career to be his Lil assistant.... I was like oh babygirl u gotta leave this swamp....
Death Note’s problem with women is kinda compounded IMMENSELY when you learn the original mangaka’s other story, Bakuman, includes a scene where the two male protagonists discuss why girls who strive for anything on a boy’s level is pitiable and how the female love interest is respectable because she plays into her societal role as a pretty, average girl who will make a good housewife.
I am NOT joking btw
Bakuman was only interesting in the educational way, about how the manga industry works. But everything else was pretty lame, specially the "10 years of relationship celibate".
In fairness, the character that says all that stuff does eventually get a training arc all about how he does not get women. Like, at all. And his love interest and future wife is the exact opposite of the girl he's praising in that chapter. Sure, Takagi never says "Gee wiz, that stuff I said to Mashiro during lunch 8 years ago sure does sound stupid now!" but the character clearly rejects his own arguments as the series goes on.
there's still that line in the beginning where the mom says "men have dreams women cannot understand"... I get that this is the character's opinion, but when you have that kind of opinions spread throughout the whole story without it being properly put in question... it just feels like it is kinda shared by the authors too
Yikes
@@Yaya66 I personally felt that Takagi being expressly told that he doesn't get women, and him having to get basically a sensitivity reader to help with his writing as a hint that we're meant to look back at his previous comments on women with a big ol grain of salt.
Ohba likes to write like this in Bakuman. Characters will say or do something that will be portrayed in a cool or heroic light in the moment, but later chapters make us look back on it and cringe.
The boys being perfectionists and thowing their manga that didn't win into the river, and insisting on starting a series while still in highschool? Mashiro gets hospitalized cause he can't maintain a school schedule and a mangaka schedule simultaneously.
Gag manga was hyped up early by everyone insisting Takagi was good at comedy? Turns out it's leading to Takagi developing depression.
It's hard to see it when its coming out week to week, but it's a lot more clear what the author was going for when you have the whole series in front of you.
Heck, doesn't Mashiro's mom throw the dad's words back in his face during Azuki's arc at the end?
Honestly, I quite liked Misa. Something that I found interesting was that Misa straight up told Light that he could treat her like shit and she wouldn't care and while he was never the best boyfriend (as Kira), he still devoted a substantial amount of time into not alienating her and that's because of two things: Misa is more insane than Light and she is more powerful than him.
Light kills because of his convictions and to keep himself safe; Misa kills because she can. She kills on a whim and usually to make Light happy. She doesn't place any stock into what if she gets caught or if her murders set off chain reactions. If she gets pushed over an arbitrary edge, Misa will just kill Light regardless of how that reflects on her.
As for being more powerful, not only does she have the Eyes of the Shinigami, but Rem is wholly in love with her. Light (by which I mean Kira) can't simply discard her because not only is she incredibly useful, if he kills her out of convenience, he's going to die shortly after.
I just found it neat that while she was the pretty, blonde groupie, she was kind of the Sword of Damocles above Light's head.
I didn’t like her character because of the obvious disdain the writers had for women, especially young, sexy ones. The sexualization of her being essentially tortured is harmful and has real-world repercussions. I watched some of the show as an 11-year old girl and felt the misogyny palpably. Years later, being held captive myself and sexually brutalized, I saw myself from the perspective of my abusers and I was as worthless and powerless as a bound-and-gagged anime girl.
@@AilacatailuWhat 11 year old girl would notice something like that? Not saying you're wrong but that seems a little too young of an age to care about that stuff.
@@user-df5mj7df1iif you’re a girl, you can never be too young to care about misogyny. Even if you don’t have all the words, it still feels weird or hurtful or strange or annoying or any number of things to watch characteristics you share being shown that way, even if you might not know exactly why. Cause you see that sort of derision all the time.
A lot of people talk about white boys going through a “racist phase” and say well they were so young or it’s normal. But their classmates who they hurt were just as young as them. Sadly there is no minimum age on being affected.
(Please don’t read this as an attack. It’s just I’ve been affected by all the misogynistic media since I was a child and am now coming to terms with how authors and certain fandoms often treat women characters like crap. So I guess I’m just venting or showing @ailacatailu they aren’t alone.)
@@user-df5mj7df1i "Your personal experience is actually wrong and didnt happen because i decide so"
@@Ailacatailuu r just reaching. Real world repercussions?? So what? Everything can have real world repercussion then don't protray anything. Tf logic is that? If u think there was misogyny then u r just way too brainwashed to he man hating, becoz there was nothing misogynistic about it, that scene was literally about torturing her to get information out of her wtf did u expect?
Honestly, the premise of the first few episodes is so wonderfully simple (I also like that, if I remember correctly, the viewer has learned pretty much all there is to know by the end of the very first episode): Genius high school student discovers magical note book to kill people with, while genius detective tries to find and eventually arrest him. Sounds like a great story to me, and as far as I'm concerned, the first 9 or 10 Death Note episodes are as close to perfection as it gets. I just really wish it had continued with this premise to the end. But nah, along with Misa, so many needlessly complicated shenanigans are introduced to the story, too :/ I think I still enjoyed it more than most even after L's death, but it never got anywhere near the quality of those first episodes again
The fact that the show has an obvious women-problem isn't surprising to me in the least. The author is infamous for treating his female characters like garbage.
Any other examples??
The women in Bakuman are really weak characters but the same could be said for most of the assisting cast in the second half of the manga.
Most anime/manga does
@@WhaleManMan in bakuman within the first couple of chapters we get one of the main guys talking about how Miho is pretty and cute because she acts dumb as to not intimidate men. At one point in time one of the boys' father's says to his mother, "men have dreams women can't understand".
The female love interest in Bakuman comes to mind. While Misa may be a poorly written character, Miho might as well not have been a character at all.
I rewatch the show up until L dies, then I just imagine that Ryuk kills Light while he's taking a shit or something.
I keep encountering people who hate the second half of the show, and I always wonder why they haven't watched the movies, which are what the show should have been.
thats exactly the death light deserves. no golden sunset in the background, no sentimental music, just something as glorious and dignified as dying while pissing and shitting himself
I find it frustrating that people don't ever want to think about why something is the way it is. They just want it to be the way they wanted it to be when they started it.
@@HOGuru I have watched the Japanese movies where L defeats Light. I thought they were pretty good, but the show (at least the first half) will always be my favourite.
Celty Tompkins well I would say it’s a tie because they both died
I think one easy change that could be made is Rem saying no at first, as that leaves her as a threat to Light. Now Light can't just let Misa take the fall for L's death, because that means that Light will die too. Then when Rem does end up killing L in order to save Misa, it would feel more like Light took the two biggest threats he had at the time and played them off each other to get rid of them both and ultimately win.
I hated Misa's character as a child, but now that I rewatched the series I thought her presence was actually necessary to see the change in Light's behavior as he got more and more invested in his new world. Misa's the one person throughout the series, who knew Light was Kira at an early stage. We can see his reactions change towards someone that is completely aware of him, unlike the facade he put up in front of his family and the task force.
I feel you've undersold the death of L.
First you claim that it's careless of L to let Light and Misa roam freely but in reality L didn't have the power to restrain them anymore, literally every other character involved in the investigation is entirely convinced at this point that Light is not Kira and criticise L for holding onto that belief so it makes sense he has to let them go.
For that same reason the "If I die Light is Kira" plan doesn't work for L anymore at episode 25, especially given Light has an alibi in that he was literally in the room with everyone else when L died and he then convinces everyone that Rem did it (which she did but due to Light's manipulation).
And on the final point Light doesn't just "tell Rem to kill L" in episode 25, Rem has realised by now that if she kills L she will die (by trying to save Misa). Light instead has to set up the situation by letting Misa roam free so that L will notice and begin an investigation into the 13 day rule, inevitably leading to Misa's capture and death. L notes specifically that "if kira were to be caught they would get the death penalty" right in front of rem, causing her to realise that Light has forced her into a situation where she has no other option but to save Misa by killing L and herself.
To sum it up, light using Rem to kill L is not "an easy way out", it would have been easier for him to just get Misa to kill L but he had to go through the extra effort of manipulating Rem into killing L to accomplish three important things: The death of L, The death of Rem and giving himself an alibi. I'd say that's a pretty good plan, or at least it was enjoyable to watch play out
Yes you summed up my thoughts perfectly.
Thank you for writing this. Now I don't have to write the same thoughts anymore :D
Just curious about why you refer to Rem as female throughout? In the Japanese version he was shown as male, was it maybe different in other versions?
@@sanaashaikh4463 Was he? I don't remember the specific moment in the show they talk about it but the wiki says "性別はメス" (gender is female).
ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%AD%BB%E7%A5%9E_(DEATH_NOTE)#%E3%83%AC%E3%83%A0_(Rem)
@@liamwatts7105 oh, in the English subtitles they referred to rem as male so it was confusing
Misa was never my favorite, but man, that prison arc through the "execution" was so brutal for her. She was TORTURED, but didn't say Light's name. I feel like the show should have ended with L. What the heck was the point of Near and Kiyomi???
@@AdityaDeo-cg6eu nah
Near was there to finish what L started along with Mello. Near + Mello = or > than L. The point of Kiyomi was to show Light's darkest path, as he deviated from his original goal of killing criminals to starting to kill innocent people to save himself. That moment when he killed Kiyomi marked the point when Light died and Kira took over. When he gave up the notebook for a few episodes, he was reborn as Light again. We got a glimpse of how Light would've been had he not picked up the death note in the first episode. When he regained it, he returned back to being Kira. Everything that happened in the series happened for a reason.
If the show ended with L then the theme around it would not have had any resolution.
the point was to stop Light you know...because hes a mass murderer and all?
dude right
growing as a person is learning to empathize with misa, especially if you’re a girl
I've never seen the anime but this was my experience reading the manga, though i only did it once rather than revisiting it multiple times. I got really into it but the quality had started to dip around midway through the day, and instead of pacing myself, I ended up staying up literally all night to finish it - ADAMANT it would become good again by the ending. At 8 in the morning my roommate woke up and saw me angrily typing on my laptop computer about how duped I had been. When the postman came by and i got the mail i informed him that i had just stayed up all night to finish reading a comic book series and the ending had sucked. I was levitating with fury.
I binged the anime in about two days. You, on the other hand, distilled the experience of watching/reading Death Note down to the purest possible form of its essence.
That sounds... painful.
I did the same thing that ending was terrible like... Literally anything involving near and Mello NOT winning would of saved it. Them winning made the show seem idiotic...
@@GgGabg-mr5qp Light had to lose though. Only way that Near and Mello not winning could have worked is if Light ended up dying or getting captured by some random schmuck because he's acting dumb again (which would have worked but his fanboys would be LIVID, kinda like Eren's fanboys were with his ending).
I thought the theory of Misa was pretty cool - there's a definite 'oh, s***' moment when she walks in, since Light's always been extremely calculating and analytical, while Misa is the exact opposite of that as a kind of agent of chaos, meaning Light has to rethink his entire strategy and make some pretty major moves just to stay hidden. That being said, in practice, Misa's character was just really annoying, so it landed much more flat than it could have.
I think one of my favorite concept AUs on her character is one where it casts all her annoying, vapid behavior as an act she does in front of Light and others because she's actually pretty smart and manipulative and wants to protect herself by having everyone underestimate her. Just imagine how much of a zero to one hundred, "oh sh***" moment that could have been if the actual authors had been imaginative enough at writing women to actually use her character for something like that! We already know she's a performer and actress, so it fits in nicely too with the story framework that's already laid out for her. I need to try and find that fanfiction again if it's still out there...
Honestly the other dude ( i can never remember his name) in the later seasons would have made a much better 'Misa' overall since he basically accomplishes the same thing by adding more risk and complexity by being a 'dumber follower' type compared to L and Light. Sadly he was only used for that ridiculously dumb cop-out ending.
Overall I really disliked Misa *because* she was that drastic of a shift (and clearly forced to be because plot and escalation) in pace. I would have much preferred if the setting was kept more generally focused around the concept of risk and benefit that comes with forming a cult of personality (while also touching on how much of a no-no it is) without condensing all of that into a qt3.14 goth gf for the sake of pandering. It would be way cooler to see Light having to manage a whole cult group while never revealing that they are taking commands.
@@doll_dress_swap1269 If you find this fanfic please tell what the title is. I would like to read it.
Octo Hej so I haven’t refound that exact fic just yet, but one way to find some good ones is to just do the search “smart Misa fanfiction”, and you can find quite a few interesting ones. I tend to enjoy reading all kinds of different ships or AU takes rather than insisting on one specific version or pairing as my head cannon, but I hope there is something you can enjoy! Happy reading!
Kaweta I still like Misa despite her many flaws, but I feel like you make a pretty good summary of what it is that can make her character frustrating. Also, I feel like most of the fandom can agree that even though that final third of the series wasn’t great, that Mikami was still pretty darn entertaining. Definitely best boy out of the later cast of characters, even if he’s a weird psycho! 😂
Light trying to find the best way to hide his Death Note reminds me of my teenage self trying to find the best way to hide my weed stash from my parents.
Replace the batteries of a torch and hide in there hehe
@@Ikona4 thank you so fucking much omg
When u risk burning your house down so you don’t get in trouble for weed
Having your death note discovered would probably bring you less problems than having you weed found if you were a Japanese teen
Personally, I love the Yotsuba arc. Sure, Higuchi is nowhere near Light's level of intelligence. But I found it refreshing to see the humble version of Light, instead of him being a two faced liar in order to achieve what he wants. It was also cool to see Light and L; two of the world's most brilliant analytical minds working together, instead of against each other.
I agree! Although I think the memory loss altered Light's personality too much.
same!
I tried watching the show after L dies multiple times but I always found myself wishing I was doing/watching something else and thinking it was a waste of time. I'm glad some else agrees with me though I am envious of those who disagree.
I feel like the show creates really interesting and intelligent characters that suddenly lose those traits for the sake of maintaining a plot, funny how you said that the show has a women problem, they killed off Naomi Misora for the same reasons... it really disappointed me because I thought that L and Naomi would finally meet, since in the previous story, Beyond birthday, they worked together.
I really tend to disagree here. I do feel like a theoretically good _adaptation_ of Death Note would strive to keep Naomi alive though. I do like what Tsugumi Ohba said about writing that scene, because he paints a picture of discovery. Paraphrasing here: "Oh no, she's way too smart, she has to die!"
On the adaptation front, just because I think of stuff like this: he struggles to get her correct name down, and there's a rule that if you write a person's name wrong four times they won't be killed. If you said as a writer that she was in shock by what she'd heard, and simply walked away in a horrified daze, you could make the excuse that he never correctly wrote her name down, and she didn't die, but incorrectly assumes that she did. The main problem with this is you have to explain what she's doing that whole time, and why she doesn't warn anybody about him. Particularly L himself. But you can see why she would be afraid to warn the task force otherwise. Not only does he claim to be on it, but his father is actually the leader of it, ostensibly.
Beyond birthday was made after death note.
It's supposed to be sad
Lets look at the pattern though: what does the writer tend to do once he has written himself into a situation he feels uncomfortable with? He either introduces a character (Misa) or kills one off (Naomi, L). He is unable to stay disciplined with his writing, sacrificing the characterization and storytelling to create scenarios easier to write for. This is why Death Note is a series of climaxes. These are much easier to "hype up" and build toward, and it's why I do not feel comfortable saying Death Note is anything but mediocre. There is no discipline in the writing, just nonsensical scenario after scenario with somewhat competent character writing inbetween.
@@PathBeyondTheDark Raymond Chandler said "When in doubt, have a man come through the door with a gun in his hand."
What is it you even think should be happening, how many options does he really have when he writes himself into a corner? I don't think you're being fair. Think of all the rules and how they fit together to make sure we as the audience see that Light _could_ be invincible if he wasn't such a weak person, or could be caught instantly if he wasn't such a smart person.
I wish Mello (that’s his name right?) was more focused on and developed than Near at the end. Also I don’t know, I love the era where amnesia light and L team up.
Agreed, he was a far more interesting character and it really sucked when he died. I could have even done without near all together. He was an inferior version of L.
@@fury5500 I've called Near Sam's Choice L for a while. 😂
he had more scenes and was better developed in the manga
I think Mello's death was an awesome moment, it's just that he should've been important before then lol.
I agree about the amnesia light part. I really liked that they developed a friendship and gave us an idea of an alternate reality where light was actually a good guy. All the while, you know that it tragically can't go on. Good stuff. I also agree with joel, though. The plan was bad in the end and had no reason to work better than if light just had L killed before.
The fact that L was supposed to win, but then the editors wanted to milk it a little bit longer really hurt its legacy
In watching again, I think a critical component to consider is L's emotions. He's a super genius, but human. He mentions multiple times he is extremely depressed after Light's detainment and released. He has everything but physical, smoking gun evidence on Light. He feels like he might have been wrong, which depresses him greatly
I like what you said about the little things though, like the phone and hiding the notebook. And that tennis game is amazing!
To add, I actually enjoyed the section where Light's memories go away. We got to see him and Misa without the note. Super interesting. Misa is unchanged. But Light is definitely different. He slowly realizes he shares ideals with the last Kira, but says he goes against other aspects (like manipulation). Light seems to be the kind of person that changes with such when given such extreme power while Misa is exactly the same. I think there may be something to say here on that
i always felt that light killing naomi was the natural conclusion to the pre-misa point of the show: he kept getting into increasingly complex situations that he had to think his way out of, and once he'd bested naomi, which i'd argue is the most dangerous situation he ever found himself in, there wasn't anywhere bigger for the show to go. so having exhausted that arc of light overcoming danger through pure logic, they then introduce misa to force him to have to deal with a complete wildcard. it felt like the next step up: if light could manage to defeat naomi he can worm his way out of anything, so now what happens if we give him an element he can't fully predict or control? the execution of misa's arc is questionable at best but i think introducing her was a logical narrative decision.
I agree with this
Yo this is a great take
I remember hating Misa when I first watched the show, then a few years later thinking that all the hate she got from the fans was pure misogyny, and then rewatching the show and "oh... it turns out her portrayal *is* sexist on its own"
How is it sexist? A woman like her could exist and I sadly see superficially attached girls (and guys) all the time in real life. Sexism is putting one sex above the other in an absolute form. Death Note definitely lacks a little in showing powerful women compared to men but it is not sexist. Think about it in the context of Japanese society at the time. How many women do you think would've been in the task force? How many as business moguls? The context of the series and the time period makes it all make perfect sense. If society at the time was sexist doesn't mean the story is. Misa is a particular female. A little unbelievable but it's something. Naomi Misora is a great character. The news lady is great. The woman that is with Near is very strong. Where are they sexist exactly?
@@SiMeGamer First, what do you mean "in an absolute form"? Sexism is a set of rules, habits and social constructs that reproduce prejudice, discrimination and stereotyping against women, including gender roles. Second, my point was never that the show/comic as a whole was sexist, but the way the character of Misa Amane was portrayed and treated. You said you know girls like Misa, and yes, girls like her can exist, but *she* doesn't. Misa isn't a real person. She (like Light, L, Ryuk, everyone) was a choice the creators made. They were writing a fictional story, and the only female character who was actually relevant they decided to include had the sole purpose of being devoted to the protagonist and insert some fanservice (because of course she has to be super hot) and only personality traits were "dumb" and "childish". So, why did they do this? Why is she constantly objectified and hypersexualized (as is often the role of women in media), as none of the male characters are, so flat and useless (only useful when she is being manipulated by Light), a snowball of stereotypes, if not for the fact that it's in a sexist industry that supports and encourages this exact kind of portrayal of women and girls, specially in works that have man and boys as their main target audience? And that she was created by two male mangaka, who might not be openly and consciously sexist, but might reproduce this kind of mindset in their work?
@@procopias7571 I still don't see how it is sexist. What was she supposed to be then? The quirks they gave her worked really well for the story. She was a model - thus popular. A problem for Light. She very childish - annoying and hard to control. A problem for Light. She wasn't dumb. She just wasn't ask smart as Light and L. Notice how many precautions she took at the start and she was able to follow Light's instructions very well. She was clingy but that was given a solid backstory and reason (that is the only over exaggerated part I disliked). Light is a master manipulator that was very popular. As long as it makes sense and is not overdone, it shouldn't be considered sexist. A snowball of stereotypes doesn't make it sexist. Intent is key to those types of -isms. Is it racist that that task force is comprised of only male agents. That the gangs are comprised of only buff males? This kind of thinking can never end unless you intentionally make people as unstereotypical as possible. Misa is an extreme, but she fits. If it fits, it's not racist. If it was, it would mean that story is racist before you add that character. It seems that people's skin is so fking thin that any depiction of a woman in fiction doing something a woman could easily do is considered sexist. I would like a woman to say why Misa's existence in the story the way she is sexist. Because I don't see it.
Tsugumi Ohba did state that he is not good at writing women and it's true that they are usually less nuanced and are seen as paper cutouts but it's not sexist. Just as super manly men in Hollywood action movies are not sexist because they embody the vulgar macho stereotype. It's an archetype. It's not sexist. If it is sexist it means that that character is sexist no matter what which is really fking stupid because it means nobody can ever use that kind of character in a story even though there are people like that in real life. Sexism requires intent. You can't be sexist without meaning it or having the prejudice ingrained which is not what Ohba has. He just doesn't know how to write women very well (but he still managed pretty well imo).
@@SiMeGamer it's sexist because the writers wrote her that way. She didn't have to be ditzy or have no real personality or be obsessed to death with Kira or not have any character development or just be a pawn for light who doesn't really get to do anything cool on her own. But the writers didn't care about her and used her as a plot device/ fan service. That's the deffo of objectifying, bud. And objectifying women is sexist.
@@simpulacra so you are saying it is NEVER okay to have a character like her no matter the context even if it fits really well with the plot. And that women like this don't exist in real life and if they do then the universe is sexist. Women like this exist. She fits the story really well in terms of function. How is that sexist. How. The chose it because it fking fits. Not because that's how they see all women. Context. Why does context not matter to anyone...
I've always seen Death Note as two halves: The first half of Light and L's legendary cat and mouse game, and then the second half with L vs Near and Mella. The first half is pure legendary, the second is... meh.
It got bad after the memory loss plot was introduced. Until then, I was like “damn, it’s awesome to see L and Kira go up against eachother.”
I personally found the entirety of the memory loss part very entertaining to watch, watching L figure all of Light's plan while being able to follow his thought process and observations was awesome, you feel like Light is bound to lose but then he actually WANTED L to figure all of that out so he could be exposed once he got his memories back.
With that said, I also think that right after they get the Death Note, L's intelligence was nerfed. I feel like they wouldn't be able to kill L if he was as careful as he usually is. For example setting Misa and Light free, and I would expect him to suspect of the fake rules not being appliable simply because they were on the back cover of the note, and he wouldn't say a thing since he would still suspect of Light, and he would eventually have it tested, after the result of the test, the case was solved. (After all the whole point of the memory loss part was that he already suspected that Light gave away his powers to get them back later after faking his innocence)
I've seen people say that L couldn't have kept Light on chains with him for longer because everyone was convinced that Light and Misa weren't kira, but it's not like if he did it would be the first time he did something that everyone else didn't agree with
@Regionaltyrann I'm like 99% sure this was explained in the show but I'd have to rewatch it again to be sure. Since Kira exists because of the Death Note, erasing memories of the Death Note means memories of the true nature of Kira, which is related to the Death Note, are also erased. It erases ALL memories of anything related to the Death Note, and I imagine this process is way more destructive than it initially seems since Light's entire personality reverts to before he got the Death Note simply because the Death Note influenced him and he became a much different person as a result.
Note that they still know Kira EXISTS, but not that they were Kira or how Kira kills people, since both of those are heavily linked to the Death Note.
I liked seeing Light contemplate if he could actually do something as evil as Kira did when he lost his memories. It truly illustrated that without the Death Note he might’ve been an upstanding good person who helped punish criminals the right way. I liked the disconnect from the Kira identity, because I thought even subconsciously he would justify Kira, but he’s a completely different person without the temptation of the death note that essentially unleashed a monster with a juvenile sense of right and wrong. I agree that it made the show itself less entertaining, but to me it made the characters more interesting. Especially the friendships between L and Light. They became more one dimensional in some aspects, but it showed what all their personalities naturally aligned with. L while cold and calculating became more sentimental, Light became more moral and determined to peruse true goodness, Misa displayed she’s more loyal to the idea of loving someone rather than Kira as an ideology.
nah it was after L died
It got bad after introducing L successors I automatically knew they was going to win I hate that deathnote ending it's so shit
I'm not disagreeing with the overall argument that death note stops slapping, but I think it's important to recognize that the team of people L works with are people who know Light personally and are hoping to exonerate him that are not looking at it purely logically like L does
Yeah I feel like Joel kinda just ignores the fact that L has pressure from the other task force members to release Light, who clearly all are partial to him. Like whats L gonna do fight them all?
This. If L was working alone (well, along with Watari), then Light and Misa probably would have never been removed from custody until L got the death note and deduced the 13 day rule was fake.
I feel like if he had some interactions with them Near and Mello showing up would have worked much better because as is L is dead and BAM two replacement L's show up outta left field
hard agree on this one.
I would disagree that L could have just done "if I die it's light" thing again. From a narrative standpoint, it's really uninteresting. But from a plot perspective, he couldn't really do that because there is no reason that the task force would believe him, the taskforce already said that they believe that L just wants to test the 13'th rule because he doesn't have any other suspects and needs it to be light. The other members of the task force are light's dad and people he's befriended, who think L is being unfair just because has no other suspects. I really like the scene before L's death because it shows a sense of resigned acceptance, only as if it says that there's nothing he can do, or at the very least that L believes there's nothing he can do. One of my favorite things about L's death is that he died because of a variable he couldn't control, and light dies in the same exact manner, due to an uncontrollable variable. But idk I like death note for different reasons from you, so some of the problems with the show you had I didn't share.
Edit: I appreciate a lot of the comments because the dialouge has made me think a lot more about the show. And I've come to the conclusion that the problem a lot of people think is the mind games getting worse but I think a lot of that stems from the mind games getting more infrequent. I think if there were simpler, more controlled mind games to go along with the big huge uncontrolled mind games that have more loose ends but have a bigger payoff, I think people would be fine with the rest of death note more. Typically only having a lot of things that build up to large payoffs but the first arc had a lot more simple mind games that were much more frequent. I think the way you would fix this is to introduce mello and Near during the Yotsuba arc, have them both trying to solve something, and have while L and Light are being focused on establishing plot points for a big payoff, Mello and Near are having battles that resemble the first arc. I think this would get us a lot more invested in near and mello when the final arc begins. Now for the final arc, I think the only thing you would have to do is just turn preexisting conflicts into mind games. So for instance maybe have Aizawa and Light have kinda a mind game in which neither person is overtly suspecting the other but both are being cautious of each other (ie. make aizawa work for the knowledge that Light is passing notes to takada). Or have it much harder for Near to leave the building under the attack by the Kira mob, but still have the solution to highlight how greedy the kira mob is. This would make the show longer but ultimately more consistent. I don't need these changes personally to enjoy the show, because my main interests in death note are the themes of power and corruption, and the characters, but I think it's more than valid to enjoy the show based on frequent controlled mind games, and I think this is a solution that many would-be satisfied of.
@Orion3227 I see. Thanks for letting me know!
Yes, I thought that Light "outsmarting/outmaneuvering" L was because Light forced L's hand into letting him go. L had no case, no good deduction except for intuition. Light manipulated L into creating a situation that is super, super human rights violating, and Light bet that the detectives wouldn't let that happen indefinitely. Because L as the detective is standing for the old-world forces of law/order/justice, L can't make the same moves as Light can.
@Orion3227 I mean I don't think Light actually planned to learn about Watari as part of the Yotsuba plan, and we know he did plan on having Rem (or Misa) kill L from the moment he hatched that plan.
Besides this though, Light's plan is stil not smart...
-he's banking on the task force being stupid enough to just let misa go even tho there's physical evidence against her. this one supernatural rule which could have a loophole is not concrete evidence, especially when it's very possible Misa's/Light's Shinigami wrote for them the whole time so they didn't have to die. This is literally the crux of the plan
-What if Light doesn't wear his watch
-What if the Task Force learn of the "if this notebook gets destroyed, anyone who touches it will die" fake rule before catching Higuchi; then they all might agree to never actually touch the notebook, and light's memories can't return
-what if higuchi was the kind of person to panic after killing someone and burns the notebook in an attempt to kill himself
-what if light didnt end up being in such a perfect angle to write higuchi's name without anyone seeing
-what if light was in a more chaotic situation where he didn't have an excuse to keep hold of the notebook as he's writing higuchi's name, and someone decides to snatch it from him
-what if the new kira had an alias, or the task force didn't know his name (light would be unable to kill him and thus unable regain his memories)
All of these problems when he could've just told Rem to kill L after Misa was captured. Yes they might get suspicious and yes, Misa still needs to be free (or else rem will kill light), so light could've had rem write a letter, claiming it's from kira, saying that he had a shinigami scope out the scene and that they know the task force/L's faces, so he can kill them at any time; he can then say that misa was only controlled by him the whole time and that he made her lose her memories, then he can tell them to release her or else he'll kill them and a bunch of innocents. At this point they most likely will release misa cus the letter corroborates with misa losing her memory (so it seems credible), the letter claims misa was innocent and was merely controlled, them and a bunch of innocents would be killed, and most importantly, Light can have Rem control L to have him comply with the letter. Then, after 20 days or so, L can commit suicide
You make a good point but I still think the way Light ultimately gets L killed is way too convenient and unsatisfying. Finding L's name and killing him was always the challenge from episode 2 onward, and having Light just ask Rem to do it for him makes it feel like he just cheated the game that we've been watching him play for so many episodes. Not only that but having it come after 7 boring episodes of watching L and "good guy Light" chase down a random criminal, makes it feel extra unsatisfying since there were basically no interesting mind games or schemes that happened between the two of them for all that time (outside of the long con that Light was playing). Overall, Light's win just doesn't feel very earned, even if he did put L in a scenario where he couldn't win either. I kinda feel like they could have maybe kept the plot going if they forced Light to continue prying for L's name, which maybe would have forced him to make some moves that would arouse suspicion again. But honestly, I think that the series should have ended around the 15 episode mark instead of trying to pad itself out for almost 40.
@@KingCam20 I don't think it's convenient it feels like a natural extrapolation of all the variables interacting with each other. Also, L did lose to an oversight. He focused way too much on Light and how he viewed him as exceptional, that's why the person who's beats him (near, or nier idk how to spell it) says he's nothing more than a deranged serial killer and near/nier cares more about the death note than Light. I do think the yotsuba arc is borning, not bad, just a little uninteresting but I don't defend the arc, I defend the thematic significance of L's death. Also, There were interesting mind games that led up to it, the fabrication of the thirteen-day rule completely demolished L making it to where he has no reason to keep light under watch. Remember he said at the beginning he wouldn't do anything inhumane without good evidence. Also, I don't think it was padding you can say it was uninteresting but it doesn't have any of the things that padding typically has. There are reasons to the yotsuba arc being slow, you can argue that the payoff doesn't justify it, but that doesn't make it padding.
To me, L's defeat always felt like more of a resignation. He knew Light was Kira, he knew his days were numbered, that's why he got so depressed. He gives in, though, because everyone around him were saying that he was wrong, often times attacking him verbally for his stringent adherence to logic. It's possible that he was treated this way his entire life; it's pretty obvious that L was neurodivergent, possibly autistic, and it's pretty common for people to think of autistic people as robotic or unfeeling. Maybe, after so many years of being told he had no emotion and the fact that the person he was after was, by his own admission, the only person he had ever considered a friend, he just gave up. Nobody us perfect, after all; everyone has their breaking point. At least he died knowing he was right, for whatever it's worth.
As for Misa, I always figured the show used her to show how terrible a person Light is for those who don't have a strong moral objection to murder. He constantly treats her poorly and I feel like her inclusion as a wrench in Light's works feels like a "this is what happens if you bother the smart people, you just get in the way." Plus, the main writer of the manga is pretty well known for writing misogynistic depictions of women in his stories.
Totally agree about those last twelve episodes, though
L didnt think of LIght as a friend, he was lying.
The anime’s ending lacked a lot of what made the end of the manga work. Spoilers ahead...
In the manga Light begs Ryuk to kill everyone for him and then Ryuk kills Light instead, tells him and in his final moments Light begs Ryuk to let him live. In the anime Light runs away and Ryuk kills him from far away while Light sees L right before dying.
after L's death is just such a cluster fuck, near isn't even normal smart, he's "i got hold of the script" smart.
No
That’s mainly because the anime does him dirty. And he seems emotionless because his character represents someone with autism (Aspergers syndrome specifically) In the anime his work is done mostly behind the scenes so he doesn’t get credit for it. He’s much less insufferable in the manga and he has more story to him
@@sushanie Agreed. In the manga, Near is able to succeed where L failed because unlike L and Light, Near isn't concerned with trying to prove he's the smartest person in the world. He doesn't see Light as a rival to compete with, but merely a psychopath criminal that needs to be caught. He doesn't have the ego either of them does, so he doesn't feel the need to take the kind of risks both L and light made trying to prove they're better than the other. The anime tries to convey this, but not only do they do a poor job at it, but Near doesn't nearly get enough time on screen.
He hacked into the matrix, now he knows everything
I feel like Misa is supposed to suck. Her character being so insufferable makes it easier for readers/viewers to identify with Light's sociopathic mindset. I always read her as a caricature of Light's views about humanity as a whole: a population so vapid and trivial that justifies his feelings of superiority but that he is still somehow frustratingly beholden to.
@@wkwkwuk identify and sympathize are 2 different things. Its not nice to strawman people
@@wkwkwuk so you're saying that if you were dropped into "Gossip Girl" world or "Keeping up with the Kardashians" or some Jeffrey Starr TH-camr influencer world you WOULDN'T go all Jason/Michael/ Freddy Krueger on them?? Lol it'd take me about 10minutes before I cracked and started writing names down
I feel a little bad for Misa- her parents die, her career is based on her looks so she's not going to be the most stable or secure person, she has literally no friends apart from a Death God that nobody else could see even though apparently she is "famous" she's always either alone or working, she was almost raped and then the guy dies right in front of her....girl needed a therapist lol
@@twiceshy9773 kill people for being..... annoying?
@@cvltclassic893 yes
I felt the same way about the last 12 episodes. I never thought about how dumb it actually was how L died though. I definitely am one of those people that, initially, was like "wow that was really convoluted, which means it's smart!". Good stuff Big Joel.
The feeling of awe I experienced within the pre-Amane stage of the series-the inane focus on the mundane to give the show a sense of authenticity-the incredible artistic subtleties and jokes that I only ever understood after ruminating over each facet of detail, and moreover, the stupid campiness of it all…
Death Note means a lot to me, but what it means is almost entirely derived from what substance I have had to give it in thought beyond what fascination it captured within the first ten episodes. I wish it could have truly realized its insane potential before it was too late. Expanding on Light and L’s game alone would have been enough; introducing an abysmal female character and having to spend the remainder of L’s time on the show focused on the Yotsuba group (which, to be frank, none of us really cared about) was thoroughly disappointing, time that could have been used to expand upon lore and character ideology/development/motivation that was otherwise left flat.
While I enjoy Deathnote as a whole and actually enjoyed the true ending with Near, I will agree that the first arc is the best part of the whole show. I could watch that first arc over and over again and never get tired of it.
Why can't it have just fucking ended there?
So one thing I will say regarding the whole "L made an out-of-character mistake in letting Light + Misa go after finding out about the 13 day rule" thing is that within the fiction of the show, L was under pretty constant pressure by the rest of his team to stop treating Light and Misa as Guilty until proven Innocent. There's a lot of times where he pushed for the kind of harsh, ultra level of surveillance or restrictions on personal autonomy that he ultimately employed in the series and got pushback. Hell, in an earlier scene in the series, entire police squads started resigning because they disapproved of L's draconian tactics.
Now..... setting aside the unreality of Policemen voluntarily resigning because they felt their tactics were too draconian (oof...), I do think it's reasonable to conclude that this was a factor in L's decision to let Light go in that moment: that he felt he may not have had the leverage to justify continuing surveying Light and Misa after that rule was revealed.
I do agree that the fact that this hitch being ultimately what spells his downfall is frustrating/underwhelming as you point out, and it does make me wish that the writer(s) had found a more interesting way to reach the plot conclusion they wanted. Like, Rem being the one to bring down L was always a problematic solution, and now that I'm actually thinking about it, the fact that they didn't kill L through a non-death note method is really the big crime this series commits.
Like, imagine if after all the planning and schemes and convolution, Light solves the problem by strangling L with his bare hands. Maybe in a way that unavoidably leaves evidence that connects Light to the crime, but he doesn't care anymore because he's gotten too obsessed with bringing L down. Like, there's a bunch of stuff you'd have to revise to get there, but I feel like there's a thematic thread to tug on there.
unreality? It's Japan, not the US.
Yeah but one of the main thing was light went so underway with his psychosis that he actually wanted L to die exclusively by the death note, as a way to show how invincible kira is. He goes to such a point that he will kill anyone who stands between his goal, which is to become god, and that becoming is his single most important goal, not killing L. Killing L just reinforces his downward spiral of insanity and how he becomes a god
@Kibate Moreover, in the manga, L spoke of "multiple other potential Kiras" who were being investigated.
@Kibate It was before all the Yotsuba shenanigans.
XiremaXesirin I just wrote an essay about why rem killing L is still cool but the idea of the music just cutting and light killing L in the most primal way possible sounds cool as hell. Only issue with that is (also in my comment essay) that light stops caring about being god at some point and his main focus becomes to win at this game Kira and L are now playing. If Kira kills L but gets caught after L still wins, one of my favorite things about the show is this point. Light is a genius but he’s a psychopathic child, and that never leaves him. The game was to kill L with the deathnote and not get caught, and Light was dead set on winning.
The thing I tell people about Death Note is it peaks around episode 5-6 when it's Light vs the FBI lady and after that becomes whomever put the most reverses in their psychology.
"and i hate her with my full throbbing ass" ABSOLUTELY ME. your opinions on her are my exact feelings. everyone always says death note is so good but every time i told them it got bad they didnt get it. and i will forever think the show went downhill after her introduction and honestly worse after L's death
So guess everything in Death Note...
*Didn't* *go* *as* *planned?*
*TL note: plan means keikaku
[Dutch van der Linde hated that.]
The keikaku will continue until morale improves
*not quite according to keikaku*
NOT AS PLANNED!
Misa COULD have been a great character. When she is first introduced, it's mentioned that the reason she's so devoted to Light, both as an individual love interest, and as the "godlike bringer of justice" that is Kira, is because he killed the murderer of her parents. I don't remember if they say she actually witnessed the murder of her parents as it happened, but either way it's a tragedy which left her traumatized and changed as a person.
They could have explored that intense pain and trauma, and the delusional dependant "love" that it results in.
They could have explored the way she worships a killer, and the philosophical implications of that.
They could have explored female rage, by having her go insane with grief and anger over the death of her parents and starting to randomly kill people with her death note, or, in the plot of the show that we were given, by establishing a female revenge plot where she realizes that Light is just abusing her.
They could have explored female empowerment by giving her agency, intelligence and dignity.
They could have written a character.
None of which happened because the creators refuse to see her as a sexy stupid goth gf to be exploited and ridiculed, and eventually thrown away.
This is why I will take a 14 year old girl's badly written fanfic's writing over the actual portrayal of women in the show any day of the week.
YEEESSS. Thank youu, and also, NAOMI MISORA.
She is introduced as this big threat to Kira because of her genius, literally because of her big brain, comparable to L's and then she gets killed in the most ridiculous, stupid way ever.
She is suddenly, for the sake of the plot, stupid enough to contradict her own logic, stupid enough to trust her whole proccess of thinking to an ass licking teenager, stupid enough to look over the strange, creepy way Light chases after her and tries to stop her multiple times, stupid enough to believe his lies without asking for proofs.
She is supposed to be a smart, acclaimed FBI agent and suddenly she dies because of being almost impossibly naive? Seriously?
Rosie Bud one of my biggest problems with anime is weak female characters (particularly love interests). I recently watched parasyte after getting told how amazing it is and despite its many flaws the show could have been pretty good, but the idiocy and ridiculousness of the love interests ruined all of that.
God Of nothing I totally agree. I’ve recently rewatched Death Note with my sister (this was her first time watching it) and enjoyed it but something felt a bit off to me. I didn’t even realise what until my sister pointed it out to me; “there are no female characters who are doing anything out of their own will instead of a man’s. And all female characters portrayal is sexist “. First I was like no way, Death Note is great, she’s surely wrong but then I thought it through and she’s right. As sad as this is, Death Note really didn’t age well in this sense.
@@godofnothing428 welcome to the rabbit hole of potentionally great manga/anime that have uselles females, next stop bakuman, too show you that O&O duo are even sexist
That is too much for O&O to handle
I thought L let his guard down towards the end, letting light and misa roam free, because he started to see them as friends. He lost his objectivity in the case, and that caused his ultimate defeat.
Death Note taking itself too seriously is really funny when it’s contrasted with all the hilariously silly shit in the show, like how Ryuk starts jumping on his head or whatever cuz he was on apple withdrawal. And L being a silly little creature who sits funny and eats snacks all the time.
Even the show’s intro songs reflect this. The first op is all dramatic and has biblical imagery, and the second op has ridiculous metal music and looping clips of characters doing funny thing.
I would die for Joel to talk about Evangelion for two hours.
2 hours might not be enough, but agreed!
I feel if he does see it (idk if he has) he would either love it or hate it. Either way it would be interesting.
@@joey_bonzo fuck 3.33 my dude.
@@elboob1921 yoooooo
Be our sacrifice! Give your life for the collective.
I was wondering how much of this video was going to focus on the weakest parts of the series, after L dies, and was surprised how little attention you gave it. But that’s all the respect it really should get, being the stapled on epilogue that it effectively is.
Well, this video is about how it got bad, and I think the main reason it “got bad” was because of how good the beginning was in comparison. The second half is still a decent show, but it “got bad” because of all these reasons that the early part had.
Aaron L. Fuk thanks
I get the feeling it was meant to be a much shorter epilogue, but the ratings stayed high so the manga publishers demanded he keep extending the story. So what was intended to be a quick wrap-up of remaining plot points ended up becoming a third of the series.
At least this was an original video, insted of the classic boring shit "dn was perfect until episode 25 then this video talks about how everything after that sucks".
One of my fav Big Joel videos, this is my second rewatch:) You've inspired me to make my own video essays
I didn’t know how to articulate how boring and unsatisfactory L’s death was. I know that in all other adaption actions, L and Light have a physical confrontation that usually ends in both their deaths and I know that I’ve tried watching the last 12 episodes but never made it halfway through episode 28 because I didn’t care since L was dead. I know that Rem killing L early on was really boring and cheap.
Your explanation as to how Death Note got worse and why was very eye opening and I can say that I agree completely (I still adore the show though).
I guess since we arent talking about the last third of the show i might as well put out this take:
Near is actually the best character in the entire show. Aside from his design and voice which I really like, he takes all the mythological importance that has been placed on L throughout the entire series up to this point and puts it into question.
Something that was important to note about L during the Kira investigation is that L sees this whole shebang as a challenging game against a smart and worthy opponent. And as a result, L either ends up performing actions that are pretty morally suspect, or unwittingly feeding into Light’s overfed delusions of grandeur and importance. L, Light, and the show itself want you to believe that this is a Mind Battle between two of the worlds finest champions of Mind Battling, and when L dies, due to the weight and importance placed on L’s intellect , Light believes that he has officially taken the champion title as the World’s Smartest Boy. Arguably one of L’s fatal flaws was that he got so caught up in the excitement of the game that he started to see Kira as a perfect foil for him and not as a serial killer who needs to be taken in as soon as possible.
When Near eventually comes into the series, we see that he dodges that shit completely. No bullshitting around this time, Near knows exactly what kind of person Kira is and completely turns down all of Light’s invitations to the same mind game bullshit that he went through with L, keeping focus on the matter at hand, which is arresting Light. The key difference between L and Near is that Near does not have any interest or time for any of Kira’s excuses, or theatrics, or pontificating bullshit. He sees Light for what we probably should’ve seen him as this whole time. It makes you realize that most of the reason we think Light is so smart and cunning to begin with is mostly because of the importance that L placed on him.
In the last episode, Near’s most telling character moment is when Light finally confesses to being Kira, and ends up giving this long-winded speech about his motivations and why his actions throughout the series have been morally justifiable. He tries to appeal to the investigators’ emotions, maybe not to stop them from arresting him, but at least to get the taskforce to think about whether arresting him *would* be a good idea. If L were in this situation, I imagine he’d probably be deeply impacted by Light’s rationale, even having won hypothetically, he’d still be saddened by the loss of the most exciting hunt he’s ever had, cut to some shot of him looking longingly at the shore thinking about whether Light had a point yadda yadda Fin.
Near doesn’t do *any* of that shit.
In probably the most satisfying moment in the whole show, he just unceremoniously shoots down Light’s entire rationale, completely without sympathy by simply stating. “yeah dude, nobody thinks like this. youre just a broken person.”
quite frankly, seeing the entire pretense of this show just get unceremoniously shat on like that is the funniest fucking thing I’ve ever seen, and is honestly my favorite aspect of the show.
I love this take on it. Near is definitely underrated. Even though the second half of the series got frustrating, to me it always had a pretty satisfying ending, and a large part of that is due to that verbal take down Near does on L during the final confrontation.
I like this take on Near. I’ve seen so people say that he isn’t as funny or as interesting as L, but I feel like Near was a good successor.
I like your take on it but I’m gonna be honest I still don’t like him or the ending
@@doll_dress_swap1269 It mostly gets frustrating because the animators left out half the manga panels that showed Near's character arc, so in the anime we only see a fragment of his character, and because for some reason people can't accept that Light spiralling down it's actually a very common trait in serial killers who for a long time have managed to get away with their crimes. They start to think they're untouchable (and if you add a narcissistic personality and a God complex...) and that's exactly what gets them caught, that they let their guards down. Not to mention in the first half Light was pretty much in control of the situation, he had access to the investigation and always had an eye on L, but in the second half he's at the whims of Near and Mello, he isn't the one in control, so of course his reaction was going to be different. As OP said L always in some way enabled Light, L encouraged him, something Near never did because to Near Light was just, in his own words, a crazy ass murderer, nothing more nothing less, he wasn't interested in playing mind games, he wanted to solve the case as quickly as possible and that's it. I personally loved the second half, of course it lacked, but it isn't as bad as people want to make it seem.
this is based
Personally, I just got bored after "the turn", and realized Near is nowhere as interesting; also introducing other new characters took ages and brought the story to a standstill.
Of I remember correctly, Near was used to extend the manga because the creators were already behind so they needed something to prolong the series because it was laying so much money
Yeah, but if it didn't continue, we may not have got that fanfiction where Chocolate Boy (Mello, I think?) get molested by Tetris blocks.
So in the end, it was still worth it.
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740 You can't just say that and not drop a link or title.
@@EdanR if you search "Getting around the block", you should find it.
Both Near and Mello are sniveling brats with twice the bravado of L and half the skill. They were fine characters, but they didn't deserve to take up as many episodes as L did.
I could honestly listen to you talk about Death Note for a good while - would genuinely be curious to hear your take on the rest/other parts of the series or its many, many live action movies/shows etc.
Yknow it just ocurred to me that the reason a lot of these "paying attention to small stuff" go nowhere is because the show stops paying attention to small stuff and so it doesn't build on it, like we could have had a moment were L searches for the death note in light's room and figures out/attempts to disarm the trap, maybe there could have been a second tennis match that L could have used to figure out if Light is kira or not, maybe Light gets sloppy and does in part get defeated by his phone going off. but no, the show instead pivots into being an overcomplicated mess that couldn't afford to do this kind of stuff.
The anime itself is a massive downgrade from the manga. There’s so much more in the manga to Near and Mello as characters. What those of us left in the active fandom love is analyzing the reality of Wammy’s House (the orphanage that Near, Mello, and Matt are from). An orphanage built around raising successors to L by essentially training and brainwashing them into becoming someone they will never meet. L making Light “L” was a brilliant move to lure those successors to catch him where he failed, it’s only natural for them to chase after someone they believed got the title they spent their entire lives fighting for undeservedly.
As someone who has only watched the anime near was dry irritating and overall a big downgrade from L
So the manga is worth reading? Nice. I'll check it out.
The Anime I am starting not to like it anymore I think its kinda bad now mostly because misa is so damn annoying I literally wanted to cut my ears off.
@@longviewwd1 Read the manga bruh, the latter half is so much better. The anime cut it down HARD
@@samueloak1600 I hear that’s true I’ve just never read it’s really expensive and I already know all the plot since I watched the anime :,)
I love watching Misa almost purely out of piecing together all the wonderful potential she could have had as a character, that the story never thought of because I guess it doesn't care about her.
At least in some fan fiction she acts like an actual human woman with more than three traits
If you look at other O&O works, you'll see they are really bad with females
And that is the beauty of fanfiction. Some works are actually better written than the source material.
Misa always read as r/menwritingwomen to me.
I love fan fiction. This is exactly what it's for, and Misa could have been AMAZING. There is so much wasted potential in Death Note it could make me cry.
Hey everyone, do you have any favorites to share? I dug around DN stories for a while, but don't remember finding anything compelling :(
I wish we couldve seen a Big Joel "How I would've ended Death Note" part of this video
There's one thing you've clearly misunderstood Joel, and that's L is human, over time he's developed feeling for Light and Misa, Light is the closest thing to a friend and rival he's ever had in his life. Going soft on him near the conclusion is a testimony that he does no longer wish to believe that Light is Kira, oh and infact he'd literally said that himself. You're video makes a immensely accurate point if not for the themes of longing for human connection
The author himself said L was lying when he said Light was his friend. From the start L was fairly certain Light was Kira and he just needed the evidence to prove it. He didn’t like Light
@@Danny-dn5pj hmmm then that's very interesting.
@@Danny-dn5pj That's specifically in the manga. Also in the manga are way clearer implications of it
The anime changed L's character somewhat so I'd say in it it's valid to read him as actually having liked Light.
Death of the author,it nakes more sense he sees light as rival he values. Which is kinda a friend, or more .
Even if helikes light as best playmate with h7s games, thats kinda friend.
Unpopular opinion: I like Misa. She’s definitely not my favorite character but I just kinda dig the fact that a loose cannon like her was thrown in as an asset and sometimes foil to light’s plans. She can’t read the room at all which is a huge part of death note but she’s definitely not a complete idiot.
I think the thing is that she's shrewd when the plot needs it and she drops the ball when it adds tension. It guess makes her writing not seem entirely consistent?
@@Grogeous_Maximus example?
same tho. misa deserves so much better than all this hate
They could have handled her better, though - she could have been the wrench in a much better way.
this is the first time ive heard her dubbed and its pretty terrible. its a good reminder that tone, inflection and emotion are easily lost or ruined in dubbed versions of anime
Side note: death note probably continued after L’s death because of the way the manga industry works. If a manga is successful, the author is forced to keep making more chapters, if it’s not-they have only a few chapters to wrap things up before getting booted. Either way-profits are prioritized over the artist’s vision. It’s why some great manga have abrupt, sloppy endings but others get dragged on and on and on
I just choose to believe that Death Note ended with L’s death and that near never existed
@@lordoftheducks332 that's why I refuse to watch the second part of deathnote
@@lightlylemony the only redeeming quality about the second part is the fourth Deathnote user who just screams “DELETE DELETE DELETE DELETE DELETE”
@Gameboy224 that’s true, but it probably would have felt way more satisfying anyway. Like, Light wanted to kill L because he was capable of exposing him, so L dying as Light is exposed would be way more emotional
This myth about the manga industry obligating mangakas to continue a series needs to stop. The authors generally continue the series bc of the pressure from the fans, not from their superiors.
The series really changes after L's death; he was easily Light's biggest obstacle. So, after killing him off, Light is able to basically take a breather and he's allowed to continue creating his new world
But then, Near and Mello are introduced - and even Matt, but to a much lesser extent. Light has new obstacles to overcome, but he doesn't seem to be as careful as when he was going against L, so he ends up getting found out. I guess it could be argued that good will always triumph over evil, so this was inevitable. But here's the thing: the Zodiac Killer was never brought to justice, nor was Jack the Ripper. Not only that, nobody knows if Lizzie Borden actually murdered her parents. These are real world examples of evil triumphing over good - at least for now until Col. Sanders rises from the dead and judges the wicked
So no, Light could've won. The reason he didn't is because he got careless. He spent five years after L's death killing criminals, getting closer and closer to the utopia he coveted. After Near and Mello make their appearance, he has to readjust to a focused, analytical detective; but now, he can't. It's been too long
Not to mention he gets Teru Mikami involved, who isn't nearly as smart as he is. He isn't an idiot like Misa, but he is about one step below Light. Which would be fine if it were the Light from five years ago, but it isn't
That's the best explanation I can come up with, anyway. Death Note still kind of slaps after L's death for me, but not as much as those first 24-ish episodes
Well, with that all said and done, I'm going to go brush my teeth and take my sleeping medicine
I think Ls death was the best scene ive ever seen on TV. Let me explain:
1. Lights plan was a smart way to clear of all suspicion, since nobody (except L) would doubt the words of a God of Death. It shows how he can manipulate the actions of those around him (even Shinigamis). So writing these rules into the death note and having Rem testify their validity was a bulletproof way to clear suspicion on him and Misa. This makes the payoff of his plan quite rewarding.
2. L is fully aware he lost. In episode 25 he knows he will die. Writing a name in the death note to disproove the rule isn't his next big move. It's his last ditch attempt to pressure Light so he would reveal himself. The video "Death Note and the Sound of Bells" explains this point pretty well.
3. I don't read L letting Misa go as a mistake. I interpret it as harsh reality check for the so far very indivudualistic narrative of the story. L vs. Light, the greater mind will win. But for L knowing Light and Misa are kira isn't enough. He can't justify keeping them under surveillance any longer to the task force. It would be blasphemy to disregard the words of a god. This breaks the simplistic narrative and shows L to be fully capable of taking on Light interlectually, but he is weighed down by his surroundings which is ultimately his downfall.
Bro the best scene in TV history? L himself didn't technically make a mistake against Light. He didn't even know what happend at the end, he just lost because all Death Gods love Misa. It just feels cheap
@@thepowerofsand6180
I agree. At that point, anyone could have killed L with Rem with simp powers.
It was the equivalent of 2 guys going hand to hand and then you give one of them a gun.
Lol the scene is awful and so is the show after the 9th episode. If you think that’s the best scene in tv history it’s probably the only scene in tv history you’ve watched
I have never seen a show nose dive into an empty pool as dramatically as Death Note.
how about Dexter or Heroes
daiselol Dexter’s slide was slow and torturous. I never watched Heroes because I pretend to have taste.
Game of Thrones
GlobusTheGreat we don’t talk about that
very fair take. I'm glad someone who also liked a lot about the show confirmed my bad feeling about how the female characters were portrayed/treated
Oh no, the bad guy was a sexist.... say it ain't so....
To be fair, I thought Misa's first few moves proved she's actually pretty smart, despite her reputation. Pretty sure I read creator Tsugumi Ohba gave her an intelligence level of 6/10. He gave Naomi a 7/10 despite her supposedly being so intelligent she "had" to die. (L who lives much longer has an 8) And Light's sister Sayu an inexplicable *3/10.*
So regardless, yeah, I think Death Note is probably written from a sexist point of view.
However, and not to be mealy mouthed here, but intelligence is not necessarily looked upon with much reverence by Death Note. - Objectively. It seems to take the perspective that the more intelligent one is, the more evil. Ohba describes the characters by saying that "Light is evil, L is a little bit evil, only Soichiro is good." Someone who I believe also has an intelligence level of "6." He also said in that same interview I read that Near "cheated." Near is the second smarterst character in the show, according to these sources, and he still insists he didn't play fair in the end. Most people who aren't that smart are manipulated in some way by Light when they do bad. The rest just want to lead normal lives. So it really might be saying that superior logical intelligence is a detriment to the emotional reasoning that most benefits society. But idk
@@futurestoryteller Exactly, the story is told by Light's point of view, like what did you expect from the dude that killed thousands because he was bored? He lacks remorse and empathy, of course the women in his life weren't gonna get a good treatment. They were tools to him. Not that I agree, I actually would have liked to see more of Misora, but oh well, what can we do?
I think the show is pretty shitty when it comes to the portrayal of female characters, and I am actually a fan too. Part of it is the perspective of Light, who is a misogynist himself, but not all of it.
@@tereziamarkova2822 Honestly I just got flashbacks to Hunger Games. People saying the movie was "problematic" because in a brief scene District 11 seemed to be comprised entirely of black people. I was like *"No,* the oppressive, dystopian dictatorship that makes literal children fight to the death on television, as a metaphor for modern American apathy might also be _racist!? _*_Say it ain't so!_* You know, that's really surprising, because they were obviously a really great societal role model otherwise."
So it wasn't fair to the OP that I saw my opportunity to parallel that, but there is a tendency to ignore authorial intent sometimes, and just wave a checklist of things that make people feel uncomfortable.
It's worth reminding those people that sometimes discomfort is an artistic choice, and it's not always there just to be provocative and "edgy." Or because the author is communicating a personal problem. Intentionally or otherwise. It _could_ have an idea attached. One you probably agree with if you're inclined to use words like "problematic"
@@futurestoryteller the difference is self awareness. there is 0 reason for every single member of the police (even in the beginning, when it's a large force), every other supporting character, every opponent to light etc. etc. all to be male.
Deathnote began a slow decline whenever that blonde bimbo chick entered the show (cant remember her name), and to me the story fell on its face as soon as light gave himself amnesia to avoid getting caught.
People say it sucks after L died. But i think the story fell apart much sooner.
I thought it was also kind of sad Bc before misa was introduced they talked a lot about justice and the morality of what light was doing(matsuda whole scene asking the chief if it was right that they were trying to catch light etc.) and I felt like light and L were so similar that they would/ could join forces. But when misa was introduced, they stopped talking about all of that and it became a very black and white show, refusing to ask these deep moral questions. L and lights interactions were just way more Intresting and deep than anything involving misa. Sry that was a lot, but I purposely waited to watch your video until I finished death note lol
the deep moral question of "is murder wrong" lol