The Lion King and its Trashfire Remake | Big Joel
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This video is about some hot lions and how they changed in the remake. Have fun!
First off, I know those are wildebeest lol. Sorry for the misspeak.
Also, I’ve been seeing some comments about how predators are good for ecosystems, and honestly I’m not sure what to tell you. If every group in the film is essentially human, then imagine telling a member of that group, “no that I’m gonna eat you alive, but no, you don’t have a choice in that process.” It’s ridiculous to think of that as a win for the antelope. I’m not saying lions in real life or in this movie are evil, I mean they are carnivores after all. but they’re not helping the creatures they’re eating in this movie. Lions do not eat antelopes because of ethics. they do not care abt the environment or any other pseudo-ethical justification. If lions and antelope were people, lions might still need to eat antelope, but for Mufasa to tell his son all about the beneficence of that action for the antelope would be utter bullshit. Ascribing some moral code to the utterly amoral world of nature and predation is the very pitfall that the lion king fell into. And it's interesting to see that concept repeated so many times here.
Okay have fun with the rest of your day! If you want to maybe give me money, here's my patreon lol www.patreon.com/bigjoel
Hyenas are a female led species. Their leaders are female and males are subordinate in their packs. You left out the obvious implications of presenting the hyenas as the 'evil' opposition to the 'natural, good' order. The story has a lot of subversive narratives running through it.
Favourite Lion fact?
When a pride is overtaken by a new alfa male, he usually kills the existing young cubs. Partly to not propagate the old leaders genes and partly to make the females ready to mate.
So, with two coup d'etats in the film... I'm pretty sure that there was a lot of off screen infanticide going on both when Scar took over and when Simba took it back a year or so later (I'm not sure how fast lions grow)
Oh... And by all I've heard about Lions... Simba and Nala are almost certainly at least half-siblings... Yay, incest!
Yeah, the aesthetics really mess it up. Thanks for pointing out why it is an awful choice aside from 'looking wrong'. The bit with the mumbling animals was gold.
Favourite Lion fact: Lions are apparently susceptible to catnip.
Also, hyena's get a bad rap. Thanks for the cute hyena pics.
I'm not trying to defend the good or bad within the Lion King mythos, but I think you dove a bit too far and have lost sight of some things. Maybe go back and watch it again.
Except that these aren't people, Joel, they're animals. I feel you've stretched a bit here; yes, they're anthropomorphised but that's so we can understand what they're saying and doing on screen. The fact that it was a cartoon, helped us get over that hurdle. It's this kind of stretching that I feel weakens the leftist defense against problematic elements within media.
Yes, the Lion King promotes a monarchy but that's playing on the idea that Lions are "Kings of the jungle." It's a stereotype based off a misogynistic saying and sure, by all means, attack _that_ aspect of it, but don't go, "wow, this shit is scary if you arbitrarily make them people."
You are right that making this is a realistic, CGI film, highlights the flaws within the original story and how they're breaking the rules of nature; You're a hundred percent right on that, but you keep bringing up the idea that making them people matters and it doesn't. They're sapient so we can understand them, not that they're actually sapient beings eating one another.
Edit: I'm not happy with having to put this here but since several have made these assumptions, I need to clarify some things:
1) I, too, am a leftist. I believe in a lot of the same things as Joel but there are times it goes too far and this is one of them.
2) I'm rather bothered that the people who agree with me tend to be right wing in nature; I am not one of you. Please don't use my comment as a "gotcha" moment.
3) Cartoons can be complex, please stop assuming they can't be because "it's a cartoon for children."
3) I know _a lot_ about animals, predators especially and I don't care for being treated as if I don't. Please read all of my comments in this thread before commenting with your own two cents.
“The lion king objectively slaps, it slaps my entire bod. If anything could convert me to the far right. It’s this”
-Big Joel, 2019
I always come back to this vídeo just to hear him say that.
GOAT children's movie. Mufasa's death have me permanent ptsd
What a quote
it's such an endearing thing to say
Saron of Akad: **pulls back hood** We have found it, his only weakness.
Dennis Prager, dressed like the Emperor: Are you certain that our attempts will be fruitful this time?
Saron: I believe so, my lord.
**Scene fades to black with foreboding music playing**
"But we eat the gazelle?" "Yes but we also help the gazelle through trickle down economics"
Think of all the jobs of "Prey" we create. Definitely deserves a tax write-off.
@@TheSpreymando And a yearly bonus
your comment deserves way more likes
I was surprised that this connection was not made in the video.
That made me laugh lmao. Thanks for that
Something that strikes me when watching this video is how flat the movie looks. I've heard people say that live action is a bad choice for The Lion King because it means the movie can't have all the vibrant colors of the cartoon. And I agree. But it's even worse than that. Not only are the colors in the live action movie less vibrant than the cartoon, they're less vibrant than REAL LIFE! Cutting from Joel's backyard, with it's vibrant greens and his bright skin and his dark hair, to the blandness of the movie makes me wonder why the movie is so washed out. Joel's backyard looks realistic, and it's still colorful, so why couldn't the movie be that vibrant?
Edit: Changing Scar's motivation to trying to get with Sarabi is gay erasure.
To be fair, this codes Scar as a sexual predator and their primary motivations tend to center around power, anger, and sadism rather than attraction. Predators can and do assault outside of their true sexual orientation. In this context, Scar isn't experiencing a true desire for Sarabi. He believes that he "won" her and owns her and he's motivated to assault her as a means of controlling her and smiting the mate that she had been with by choice.
I also suspect that they took a hint from the musical where Scar tried to get with Nala. But it was made clearer that he had become increasingly mentally unhinged and was trying to force her to "respect" and "admire" him. That was what compelled Nala to run away. It was better developed and gave more weight to the plot. Here? It just didn't make sense.
I think that this version of Scar was a bit more menacing but nowhere near as charismatic or memorable as the original. So he not only left a weaker impression but he was less believable as a slick master manipulator. It's hard to buy that Mufasa hadn't already pegged this Scar as a loose cannon and kept him far away from all of the cubs.
Bro real grasslands are not bright and colorful
@@satireknight it was hinted at according to many folks who analyze the film
@@Mandelasmind They are still way more saturated than this movie. This movie is way to desaturated to be seen as realistic. I personally actually think it makes everything pretty ugly because it looks so boring.
starkman78 In fact, according to Wikipedia, sexual orientation is rare in non-humans. Homosexual behavior is common, but it’s very rare for an animal to be exclusively homosexual.
Aslan from Narnia had more facial expressions... And he was realistically animated back in the 2000's!
It's part of the reason I prefer Mowgli over Disney's remake
Yeah but Aslan was partially stylized so he could have more facial animations.
And that's what makes the remake of The Lion King so frustrating. It was a "creative" decision to make all of the animals less animated and way more realistic.
Can we add Aslan from the BBC version too? It was puppetry.
Amen to that. 😔
03:04 "The Lion King objectively slaps my whole bod"
Well, that's a way to say you like something
Thank you. I thought it was that, but needed the translation to be sure
@@verager2493 Same here.
Overexplaining is a problem of all Disney remakes. Beauty and the Beast had this bit where the narrator explicitly explains that the curse that changed the servants into furniture also wiped their family's memories of them. Or how in Alladin Jafar kept going on about some other fictional nations and his geopolitical ambitions. It's just the worst. These stories do not benefit from that kind of half-baked worldbuilding. All just to stop cinemasins from saying something dumb.
The Lion King was never about the politics; the fairy-tale "just king" story was only there to facilitate Simba's story and growth to responsibility and face a troubled past. Focusing more and more on the politics and world-building in the remake highlights the WORST parts of the original. Absolutely idiotic.
CinemaSins is ANTieducational for film criticism.
Overanalyzing things is kind of the point of this channel
I thought design wise Alladin was good, slightly different from the original for us to be ok but close enough for us to be like "oh yeah yeah das Alladin"
@@sethleoric2598 Just what the point of making a film that's "oh yeah yeah das Alladin" if we already have an Aladin movie???
@@eliaspeter7689 I don't know, i did like that film more than the other films though
"Hyenas are just cute dogs who love to eat big dinner" - Big Joel 2019
big din-din eating puppers
Not technically correct, but also entirely true.
"it slaps my whole bod" -big Joel
@Ounocat I thought their closest relative was the mongoose?
Female hyenas have pseudo-penises
An ongoing problem with the Disney remakes? Strip away the magic and mystical, overexplain, and assign explanations to things that don't need them for stupid people.
The hyenas deserved better. They talk about them in the remake like they're made-up creatures like orcs, not actual animals who play their own important part in the ecosystem.
Now I feel dumbed down after watching this movie.
And that's the problem.
A little gratuitous and punitive to dunk on “stupid people” in your Disney critique. Some of us don’t pick up on allegory super well and miss the forest for the trees or how we else you’d put it in flowery language. If you’re gonna paint a target on big media studios, maybe don’t overstep and insult viewers’ intelligence?
Seems to me that if the new movie REALLY wanted to go there, there could have just been some “good hyenas” present in the Pridelands who hadn’t been exiled because they actually practiced moderation and had some respect for sustainability; would have made the differences ideological instead of the vaguely gross “well it’s just in their nature to be greedy and gluttonous and short-sighted, they’re not SMART like we are” vibe.
@@commbir5148 idk man, if you dont get it, you dont get it and that is fine. they dont need to cater to cinemaSins and its audience to make a good movie. questioning the logic of mysticism or soft magic systems is useless and the studio responding by trying to make an excuse by "explaining" it, just makes the situation worse. not every piece of media needs to be realistic because some pedantic or uncaring person complains about it/doesnt understand that (sure, calling them dumb is maybe a bit mean but not really wrong)
“But dad don’t we pay the workers minimum wage?”
“Yes Simba, but trickle down economics”
Praise the holy power of trickle down economics!
BRUH 😂😂😂
The new aesthetic kinda completely ditches the concept of allegory. Photorealistic animals behaving in animal ways is not a good way to communicate allegory to an audience.
Wow, I think this is the most succinct and best explanation of why the photorealistic version sucks. I've heard a lot about lack of facial expressions and such, but somehow everybody missed the allegory aspect
@@spinakker14 My favorite example of this is the shot in Hakuna Matata when Simba grows up.
In the original, Simba and his buds walk on a log, heads in the air, eyes shut, nothing but air under the log they walk on (the moon is there to emphasize the lack of solid earth under them). As Simba grows, they are still walking on the same log, still with nothing under them. It clearly communicates that they are ignoring important things at their own peril, and that while they are aging, they haven't actually gone anywhere. They're still on that log. They haven't actually matured.
In the remake, Simba and his friends walk normally, looking straight ahead, transitioning between multiple locations as Simba ages (solidly on ground, the moon is only there for aesthetics). If you try to read this imagery, it appears that the three went on some sort of epic adventure, walking all over Africa. Which is not only poor analogy, it is literally not what happened.
The new movie fails symbolically on even the most superficial levels.
(Sorry for the rant, I just love hating on this movie. It's everything that's wrong with the influx of literalism in modern story-telling and it makes it fascinating.)
@@YourFaceisPretty
Holy shit!! I hadn't noticed that!!
Ugh I'm really slow with stuff like that
theres also a chance that their wasnt an actual allegory in the original, nor the remake. I mean, yeah you can take that the film encourages subjugation and a divine ruler, but that doesnt mean that interpretation is fact. You can think of it as probably what the filmmakers intended but you dont know that is in fact what it was.
@@genericname8727 yeah and if you take that into account... who cares what it says? if its based off some old stuff (we are commonly taught about in school no less) that probably has values that reflect that time, then of course its probably going to have stuff that doesnt align with our current political climate. I mean really, i highly doubt shakepeare wanted to say anything about 21st-century politics when he made hamlet.
"Hyenas are just cute dogs that need to eat big dinner" is possibly one of the best things I've ever heard
Also wrong. Hyena aren't dogs.
@@830toAwesomeClose enough
As someone who doesn't kin but if I did, I'd be a hyena -- SO true!!!
@@terencecobainNo, they're not close at all. In the order _Carnivora,_ there are two suborders. _Feliformia_ (l. cat-like) and _Caniformia_ (l. dog-like). _Feliformia_ contains _Felidae,_ which you'll recognize as the Cat family. It also contains _Hyaenidae._ Recognize the name? If someone points to a bear _(Ursus_ is a family in _Caniformia)_ and calls it a cat, would you say it's close enough?
@@None-Trick_Pony But if you saw one, would you or would you not say good boy? Thats all that truly matter here.
"Because a Disney's belly is never full. Now, other movies will eat AFTER endless cash grabs.
And they don't leave much behind."
Joel in the wilderness
Erik Graham
And here we see a Big Joel in its natural habitat.
"Hyenas are less aesthetically pleasing than lions"
Citation needed.
Hyenas are big weasels.
@@Yipper64 no u.
Seriously though that's incorrect.
@@blarg2429 ive just been reading through the comments, apparently if they are related to anything its weasels. Ive seen some claim that they are related to cats but some saying they arent, but multiple people here are saying weasel.
www.quora.com/Are-hyenas-closer-to-weasels-than-dogs
TL;DR (not that it's long): weasels = caniformia (+ dogs, bears, raccoons), hyenas = feliformia (+ cats, mongeese, civets). So it's slightly complicated but hyenas are not as comparable to weasels as they are to several other animal species. Furthermore, hyenas occupy their own family, Hyaenidae.
Citations are not needed for things that are common knowledge.
I though the ‘Scar seeking a queen’ subplot was just to calm any rumors that he could be gay
Nekoni that seemed incredibly lazy to me. His motives in the original were just fine as he was a jealous brother who wanted to dispose of those in his ways. The foppish attitude imbued by Jeremy Irons’ terrific vocal performance makes him that “love to hate” villain we remember well.
Didn't the sequel already address that by having its main villain, Zira, be a former concubine of Scar?
We all know Scar looks foreign, weak, and with very female moves (I just had to quote it)
yeah like for what reason they did that... if they wanted some beef between brothers why not use the canon that mufasa was always their dad's favorite?
@@matthewmuir8884 yeah but kovu was actually adopted meaning scar never had an heir, i think its implied zeera is so devoted to him because he took her in and choose her son even if it wasnt his. probably the filmakers only did this so kiara and kovu are not related and also because the message "you are not your father and doesnt have to hold their beliefs" was to radical for disney BUT one can think since scar never married or had a child and zeera never made clear they had a romantic relationship probably he did all this straight rituals out of convention knowing he couldnt be king without a wife and a heir
The remake doesn't have Mr. Bean so that makes it instantly worse.
That's not how you spell Blackadder
@@Lionkingview Or Johnny English.
Well said Mr. Speedwagon
Nice comment Speedwagon.
Lionkingview thats not how you spell Toby?
Mufasa over here trying to justify Anarcho-Monarchism
*A N M O N*
Every man is a king!
@@ajpoopfucker Huey Long liked that: th-cam.com/video/RzRmAEE7Kfk/w-d-xo.html
I am an anarcho statist
Hi buddy
"Hyenas are just cute dogs who like to eat big dinner." They're good dogs Brent.
Funny, that hyenas biologically are actually closer to cats, than to dogs.
They're cats
@@crinsombone5380 Well not exactly. But they´re clsoer to cats than dogs I think
@@crinsombone5380 They're in the same family as badgers and weasels iirc, which puts them closer to cats.
@@Alexander-kc8oq To be very precise, the order Carnivora contains two main groups, Feliformia ("cat-like predators", including cats, mongooses, civets, hyenas etc.) and Caniformia ("dog-like predators", including dogs, weasels, badgers, raccoons, bears, seals, etc.).
so I remember even at a young age thinking "What and the antelope just accept that? Like they are just cool with being eaten" And so I have to say I find this criticism on point there. That said I myself filled in the gaps by saying that Mufasa and Simba represent power with restraint, power with checks and balances, power that considers the subjugated, while scar and the hyneas represent power without restraint, the power that executes without thought or care. And the hyenas are banished because they can't accept restraint, they cant accept the social contract.
So I think the reason why we accept the original lion king, it isn't asking the audience to decide if there should be power... that is taken as a premise, it is only asking the audience to compare power with restraint, and power without it.
I thought you were holding a stick of deodorant instead of a mic for longer than I'd like to admit.
gotta stay fresh
Wow thanks now I can't stop unseeing it.
Grunkle Stan:"Your microphones a turkey baster Toby."
this video is the exact lenght it took me to finish 3 cobs of corn. thank you for enhancing my corn on the cob experience.
On a more serious note, this video is so well made and put together, I esp appreciate your breakdown of how the original TLK transports its message /makes it more acceptable/palpable to the point of not really being noticed outside of a certain framework. I also enjoy your tone of voice, it's very nice to listen to.
"If there was any film that could radicalize me to the far right, it would be this one."
The GREATEST backhanded compliment of 2019.
I can't believe Mufasa is canceled now
Dude did you see when Danny DeVito told Mufasa on a Twitter DM to "retire bitch"?
@@DifferentLOL Never contra-points!
Mufasa never did anything and I'm getting tired of this drama #mufasagang4life
Oh, it's you.
@@LSSTmusic Yes, it is I!
I don't know if I'm looking at the original with rose-tinted glasses, but i felt like every character was visually and vocally distinct. In the modern remake i couldn't tell any of the females lions apart and eventually i just referred to them as Beyoncé number 1 and Beyoncé number 2 arbitrarily as the visual style was the same and the voice acting wasn't distinct either.
Considering how disney can struggle to make human female characters distinct, I was surprised that Nala, Sarabi, and Sarafina had different faces in the original
Conclusion: grass is just dead lions, STEP ON THEM
And wolves. And bears. Hell, pretty much any other large apex predator at this point... 🙄
@@Kaikaifilu1994 i mean, everyone's bodies turn to grass not just apex predators
...my point still stands, though.
@@Kaikaifilu1994 yeah
Mark Brackney the point of trying to ruin a decent joke?
Excellent points. I remember watching this in theater and remarking on how the photorealism of the 2019 film brought out the brutality of nature and diminished the anthropomorphic charm of the original 90s characters.
I couldn't feel any empathy for these characters. When an animal was killed, it just felt like "Okay, this is how things happen in nature." Perhaps what's most interesting about this is the "Circle of Life" that is talked about in the original film is contradicted by the rational, emotional relationships formed in the animals-a bond which would not exist in this state in nature. In the real world, animals eat and get eaten.
I remember internally treating this as a BBC documentary with a dub track, but even _this_ was broken and the "cinematographers" show that snappy zoom-in as Simba was screaming "Nooo!" It broke the immersion of the film (at least, whatever immersion could have been created from this thing).
A+ film criticism, C- in taxonomy Joel
see me after class
See you after class for a C-? What kind of blue ribbon for everyone school are you running?
Yeah wait, carnivores maintain herbivore populations so they don't destroy resources in an ecosystem. And Disney dressed it up to make the concept palatable to children and families. Big Joel... why?
@@Inali097 That doesn't make the process any less brutal and horrific for the animals getting ripped apart limb by limb for their meat. It may be the way nature works and possibly even the only way it could work, but at the end of the day it's still suffering and death for anyone not at the top. Another problem is the animals are anthropomorphized af and nothing about it can be applied to humans who are totally outside the ecosystem.
@@BT-oj1bn it does make it less grusome. Because that isn't what happens. Lions selectively and quickly kill animals to maintain balance. Hyenas often rip their prey limb from limb causing them to die a painful death in shock. Without lions eating, the herbivores would overpopulate, outcompete other species and all slowly starve to death - boom, mass extinction.
@@blakea.wittenberg5685 The latter point of BTs I do agree with, the metaphor of the dominance hierarchy among predators and prey in nature don't find parallels in human society, but you're right with regards to overpopulation. I do think it's weird that the herbivores are portrayed as almost feudal serfs in the Lion King - there's a creepy power dynamic at play as conveyed (fe how do fewer herbivores result in a drought?) but ultimately Big Joel's point is ridiculous this time around. If he wants to argue that the shift toward photorealism represents a shift toward narrative realism, he has to contend with the fact that lions can't nor shouldn't choose to eat grass and bugs in reality
"But don't we eat the antelope?" "Yes, son, but they are idiots and if we didn't eat them they would overpopulate, destroy the savanna and then starve en masse."
True, but even weirder to put in the voice of an anthropomorphized creature.
how to criticize the original lion king's ideology without seeming like it
@HankyChan He still has a career because some people are willing to forgive decades-old stupid controversies.
th-cam.com/video/EbUkino-a8k/w-d-xo.html
Wow, it’s almost like Disney/ESPN/ABC/etc. mega corporation conglomerate has a vested financial interest in justifying and maintaining the existing power structure. Who would have thought? Good thing they don’t let that bias seep into every creative decision ever expressed through their media though, that would just be so manipulative and self-serving. Almost like scar. Except he’s a bad guy because he has a black mane and stuff and wasn’t divinely appointed by the nature gods, so that totally makes sense 👀
@sinwithagrin "real" advocates 🙄
Hey Peter I love your videos
Even if the original's ideology is "problematic", because it's done with artistic flair, there is nothing "real" about it, and so it's more like representations of feelings and ideas than anything. With the original, we are all Simba, and we are all gazelles. With the new one, the realism detracts from that emotional response.
Or, you know. Everything bigjoel said already that you probably already know i'm just here for algorithms and that sweet dopamine kick of a like here and there
16:20 Oh, they had to not-gay uncle Scar too? That's just adding insult.
even animals get a case of the not-gays nowadays. In the world of pandemics, no one is safe from its influence!
But didn't the sequel already address this by making its main villain, Zira, a former concubine of Scar?
It's not an excuse, but the Broadway musical did it first. I suppose Disney didn't have to include it in the remake, though.
"I'm not an alien though"... we're onto you 'Big Joel'.
“I am a normal human man with the usual assortment of orifices and appendages”
Biologically, hyenas aren't related to dogs, or cats, and exist as their own family the Hyaenidae.
Sam Foster females give birth through their giant clitoris which can actually be larger than a male’s penis.
@@Cecona Yeah it's quite disturbing to view for most who find out about this. Such a perfect design by God! Actually it's probably not since I'm not convinced that God exists. 😂
Kaylem Kerr if god did exist he must hate hyenas lol
Anarchist Xomburg because he made child birth extra painful and dangerous for them by making them have to do it through a pseudopenis. And the females tend to be aggressive and harass the males which tend to be smaller.
Hyenas are related to every animal
The drought really works best as an expression of the old Arthurian/Fisher King myth of "the king's health is the land's health" - if the king is ill (or bad), the land will sicken. Or, similarly, the Chinese notion of the "mandate of heaven" - if a monarch loses it, it is expected that floods, plagues, droughts, etc. will express heaven's displeasure. (As Joel said, keep it mystical. :) )
The script rewrite also eliminated basically all the most iconic lines and humor.
(E.g. "The king... has returned." Gone. Most of the villain song. Gone. "The monkey's his uncle?" Gone.) Also, the amazing reveal that it's Nala who was chasing Pumba is kind of ruined by the addition of the scene showing her leaving Pride Rock.
Basically, the entire soul was sucked out of the script as well as the visuals. I don't understand why they did this.
Simple. the Mouse wants money
I thought I was crazy because I didn't remember Nala leaving ! Phew...
Don't forget, after Mufasas death, it was sunset. The sun literally set on his time as King. Not only a brilliant visual choice conveying the intensity of the situation, but also thematically appropriate. God the remake sucks
@@yoshinpixels9924 I also hate how they changed the scene when Scar told the hyena's to kill Simba and they were chasing him, it was so intense in the original with him falling into the thorns and it was just lackluster in the remake. Like you said with the sunset, when Simba was running away and the sun was going down it was such a mood. And the hyenas yelling after him and making fun... god this scene sucked so bad in the remake
@@Visteus Oh, I know why the remake was MADE, I just don't understand the heavy script editing. Edits are supposed to make stories/plots/dialogue BETTER. This was just the complete opposite of that. 🤷
The 2019 Lion King does 1 thing right at least, Nala can't give those half-lidded bedroom eyes to Simba that made me question if I was a furry when I was a kid.
I see that as a bad change, lol.
@@ChiefMedicPururu (fur)Suit yourself, then
It was a fun sly nod to grown-ups back then and opens your eyes as you grow up 😉
If you have to ask yourself that, the answer is probably yes
@@LucyLioness100 My mom calls that the "Come hither" look
Same problem with Beauty and the Beast: did I really need to know Gaston is a war hero, and that’s why the town loves him? No.
Or that his wartime experience left him with PTSD? And that’s why he’s s violent maniac? No again.
It’s a fairy tale; it’s not like audiences are looking for depth.
That because Disney made those remakes to cater to, as Lindsay Ellis called them, the pedantic fucks of TH-cam with their decades of bad-faith criticism.
So, they made it for Mr Cinema Sins and Mrs Lily Orchard who loved to complain about the mystisism on fairy-tales.
Cinemasins are :v
Oooh don't get me started on Gaston in the remake. Too late. My biggest issue with that movie is that it made Gaston actually seem like a decent guy and Belle came off as a b*tch. Like when he told Lafou that he liked that she was well read and could be argumentative, and then was genuinely interested in what she was reading. It drove me insane. Gaston is not meant to be deep, he's a narcissistic misogynist and that's all there is to him. And that's all there needs to be. Ok I'm done now.
@@dramamole It completely missedd the point too.
The fucking theme was appearance and its effect on people's perceptions.
HOW DOES DISNEY NIT GET THat?
“Gaston has PTSD and that’s why he’s a violent maniac.”
Good Gad, that sounds like a fucking joke about gritty realism.
What’s next? Plankton wants to steal the secret Krabby Patty formula because it’s actually drugs?
I'd say that the cartoon gives enough emphasis to the "circle of life" as a way to basically say, "dont be selfish". looking back at the shakespeare that inspired the original, it carries those same themes on the pitfalls of greed. the cartoon is able to overshadow imperialist overtones with messages of benevolence and good will to all, while the new one seems to not be able to do that. its too gritty to do that and not as lighthearted.
exactly ! the underlying imperialism in the original was, as you say, overshadowed by the sheer emotionality, the strongly resonating notes of family, responsibility and friendship. the bleak realism of the remake has no opportunity for meaningful anthropomorphism and loses any characterisation or emotional appeal that it might have had.
@@raventrunite6459 And also overshadowed by the actual message of the film, which is "The past can hurt, but you can either run from it, or learn from it" -- a message which, while still spoken, was weirdly scrubbed from the remake. I got the sense that the creators didn't understand that Hakuna Matata was supposed to be a bad thing that Simba had to overcome in himself.
This is a year old but I had a similar experience of having to confront some of the conservative ideals within Disney films when I watched the live action Aladdin. I’m like, Jasmine complaining about her life hits a little different when clearly at least a portion of Agraba’s population doesn’t even have access to food and shelter and seemingly lives in a police state.
Black Panther was a better "realistic" version of The Lion King, than the "realistic" version of The Lion King.
okay yEs
"I da kang" " Nah nigga im da kang" Lion king and Black panther
I e actually watched black panther about 100 times, no seriously that many, and I have NEVER made that connection til now....Killmonger IS scar!!!!!
Lorelei Catherine damn 100 times is too much
Roberto Yoshida I have a problem 😂😂 i just really love it, glaring flaws and all!
"Long ago, the Circle of Life existed in harmony. Then, everything changed when the Hyena Nation attacked."
I find it hilarious how when Joel juxtaposed live-action Mufasa and Simba, I could barely tell the difference between them. I had to like lean in and look carefully. Whereas with the cartoon if you put Mufasa and adult Simba side-by-side it's pretty obvious who's who at first glance, without having to linger.
Why do Mufasa or Simba deserve to be king? Hum, I dunno, HAVE YOU SEEN THEIR GORGEOUS MANES?!
because nepotism, apparently
I'm a basic girl
I see a Conan PFP, I reply
and that lush,,,,,,,*white*,,,,,,,,,fur? c'mon
Actually according to the lion high-archy. The lion with darker mane is supposed get the ladies, instead of a male lion with a bright mane.
Ironically, Scar would most likely be king in a real pride. A black mane on a lion is a sign of high testosterone in a male, meaning they're probably stronger than the other males and more desired by females so they're usually dominant in their packs.
This movie should be just a post on 9gag titled"Someone made a realistic version of The Lion King and it'll blow your mind"
Big Joel slaps my entire bod.
It's funny how differently we perceive messages. To me, the Lion King has always felt like it meant to teach modesty and moderation. Yes, the lions rule de facto over the prideland, but it always felt accidental, not "systemic". It is not presented as something that can be changed unlike, you know, human society. The point Mufasa was teaching Simba was to not just kill other creatures just because pooower, even though, lions kinda have to actually eat other creatures. I thought as a child that all Mufasa did was instruct other lions and manage internal affairs. Like, the movie asks the question of, hey, you are stuck with a situation, do you give it your best, or do you let your shitty uncle do it for you and, as the movie portrais, make everything worse for everybody. I mean, yeah, I agree that the monarchy allegory is too on the nose to ignore and I'm probably wrong but either way, I can't bring myself to see it that way. Maybe it is *because* it is so on the nose that the whole monarchy itself feels like a symbol for something else.
I think you're picking up on how the animated Lion King feels like more of a PERSONAL story.
Like, the monarchy and eco-sytem and animal stuff all just basically feels like a metaphorical way to explore and give stakes to Simba's journey through grief and growing up. Even as a kid, your pick up on the fact that we're not REALLY meant to take the whole "pride rock" and "royal lion family" thing literally. That's not really the point. The point is "the past can hurt but we can learn from it" and "running from your problems doesn't make them go away." But since the remake is really hard to connect to, it loses that personal dimension, and since it's portrayed so "realistically," it loses it's metaphorical, allegorical dimension as well, and so all that's left are the...weird structures that remain.
@@fightscrimewhilesleeping4024 Well put.
So twilight basically
@Moony Marshes Completely agree, it's yet another example of people overthinking things in order to make them look worse. The hyenas aren't there to tell the audience that racism is good and having Mufasa followed by Simba isn't necessary because divine right of Kings must be good in the real world too. Honestly, considering the amount of things that happen in the movie that don't happen in the real animal kingdom, I struggle to believe that anyone could interpret things so literally unless they're actively trying to interpret the movie in a negative light.
(Žižek voice) this is PURE IDEOLOGY
The hyenas are the proletariat and needed to overthrow the lions without Scar's leadership.
Actually those would be the hervivores, The Hyenas are the Oligarchs
Nah, the hyenas are just another overclass, parasitizing off of the workers and seizing control of the local hierarchy by force. Just another type of petty burgeoise.
Hyenas are the merchant guilds trying to displace the feudal lords.
The hyenas are SJWs on college campuses /s
The Hyenas are a rival ruling or oligarchic class competing for the lions for resources and power.
I see so he was a lying king 🤔
Ah yes hmm 🤔🤔🤔
Jhené Aiko said it
Jesus 😩
Big Joel, you make it sound as if there is one message kids will get out of watching the lion king: "the current hierarchy is good and natural, and those that come to disturb it are villains." But watching this movie as a kid, that's not the part of the film I was focused on. The scenes that affected me the most included the one where Simba finally decides to face his past, and the scene where his father tells Simba he is going to die one day. The monkey's words stuck in my head: (talking about the past) "You can either run from it, or learn from it." As a kid's movie, I think the lion king functions more on an individual level and has lessons that apply in everyday life. While the political ideology you explain may be read from the story, I don't think it's the main message and it's not what I took away from the film.
That being said, I don't think you're analysis is wrong; it just feels like you're leaving a lot out of the picture. Also I love your videos.
yeah, the takeaway from all disney movies that focus on big monarchies (which basically no one can actually relate to) is the emotional character stuff, lessons about love and family and friends. still, the underlying political ideology, while not the focus is more significant when considered in the context of all the other kid's media (see: disney) that reinforces the status quo. but yeah, definitely not the main lesson for kids, but just kind of a subliminal background force
@SomethingScanning Maybe he's saying that, but I can't see how he's not claiming anything about the lion king as well. I'm just hearing "lion king story bad" throughout this video and I wanted to say why I like it.
I used to be terrified of death as a kid, this movie gave me a lot of peace as a child. The Circle of Life - although obviously silly to an adult - really comforted me and made sense to me when I was young.
Ben Kauffman But he literally said he liked the animated movie, just that it becomes problematic when you start to analyse it, which the live action movie basically forced him to do.
I find it very interesting that the line you speak of was cut from the reboot. It kind of feels as if someone realized the line was a bit at odds with the narrative (Simba never truly gets over his past until he's told he was misinformed about it). But that just makes the reboot seem to double down on a kind of nasty "no second chances for the guilty" message.
Wow... Big Joel is out in nature in this video!
The outside world looks so pretty from this angle
Big Joel: The animation in the Lion King allows us to contemplate the beauty of power.
Also Big Joel: At the end of the day, hyenas are just cute dogs that want to eat big dinner
Who put this halfling bard on my screen and why am I subscribed now?
Halfling bard, huh? I suppose you could call that a "half-pipe".
The fact that the live action remake made a bazigillion dollars sometimes makes me really sad
“Live” “action” 😂
i'm very upset at you over this, calling Hyenas dogs
Yeah, they're a member of feliformia!
They are good boys
He also called the wildebeests gazelles...Joel needs a new zoology book
There's only one thing we can responsibly do. We have to cancel Big Joel for his crimes against nature! How dare he insinuate that hyenas are dogs!? HOW DARE HE CONFLATE GAZELLES AND WILDEBEESTS! HE MUST BE STOPPED!!! >:[
I think he's saying that figuratively, tugging on our heartstrings by comparing the hyenas to man's best friend to say they deserve the same kind of sympathy that the lions get for being big, cute, fluffy kitty cats.
When I was old enough to "get it" I associated the mysticism of the original Lion King squarely with the Shakespearean roots of the story. The ghost of Hamlet/Simba's dad, the cosmic implications of monarchic disorder (a HUGE theme in Shakespeare's plays, especially King Lear) as evidenced by all the prey animals leaving Pride Rock when Scar takes over, even the rain coming in when Simba restores order to wash everything clean. I haven't seen the remake but I assume that what's missing is the inherent allegorical fantasy of the story, something that's tough to capture in a realistic portrayal. The suspension of disbelief is just easier with animation, always.
clearly the solution is for CGI lions to be placed an a clearly artificial stage like a stage play.
Shakespeare adaptation is based around monarchic worldview. Wow. I haven't been this surprised since finding that rain makes things wet.
@brandon roberts Since people are sharing weird trivia elsewhere in this comments section, I must inform you that the notion of the color blue is a relatively recent invention and that therefore whole generations of people have looked at the sky and not considered it to be that color.
Exactly
Are we going to get a Big Joel director's cut of him dubbing the entire movie?
I would join patreon for this
8:57 fun fact: hyenas arent at all related to canines and are in fact closer genetically to felines (though they arent felines either ofc)
Hyenas are hyenas. Simple as that.
The closest animal to hyenas is the mongoose. lolwut
Hyenas are feline software running on canine hardware 🤷♀️
"Rum, ruuh, rudda, rum, ruh, ruh"
Hey my favorite line!
"The Lion King objectively slaps. It slaps my entire bod.¨"
Possibly Joel's best line ever.
The thing you said about how weird it was to see the prey animals being happy about a baby lion actually has a lot of merit behind it...in the wild many prey animals will instinctively try and STOMP BABY LIONS TO DEATH if they come across them
I always found it quite odd that Mufasa said that he'd turn to grass but died in a place devoid of life with no chance of becoming grass
He is still going to be eaten though. Just more directly.
The reason Simba and mufasa are good is because they only kill the animals that they need to survive whereas scar and the hyenas take everything than can until there's nothing left.
The message of the movie is that animals eat each other. That's the circle of life, that's how it is. But don't take more than you need to. Don't be greedy and gluttonous like scar is
Has Scar ever been depicted as gluttonous?
Yeah he's always scrawny like a junkie
@@bri1085 gluttonous in the sense of power
@@frauleinzuckerguss1906 why not say power hungry or megalomaniac
@@bri1085 I'm not the OP, so idk
"This is a diagram of the food chain. Any questions?"
"Where's pizza"
"I'm not an alien tho"
That's just what an alien would say
Scar trying to pressure Sarabi into being with him made me suuuuper uncomfortable.
The real tragedy is that they could've gone the way of Speed Racer and used CGI to enthusiastically reinforce the themes and tone of the movie. Instead they just did the least creative thing they could think of.
A speed racer style would have been awesome
I legitimately loved the speed racer live action bc it leaned into the stupid tropes of the anime and the colors and tone where just A+. And to this day, I still say 'PanKOOken' instead of Pancake.
I know your point is that the whole Circle of Life thing falls apart when you consider all the characters to be essentially human. However on a deeper level, I think the film is about order, especially of nature, and adhering to that order (hence Circle of Life, Scar = drought, Simba = prosperity). It's all about dat delicate balance.
Also, I kept expecting you to mention all the animals in the jungle who were constantly afraid Simba would eat them. How awkward is that lol.
Anyway great video!
"If any movie could radicalize me to the far right, it would be this one."
Couldn't agree more.
Scar pursuing Sarabi is less creepy than him trying to rape Nala, like he does in the Broadway musical. Buuut its the catalyst for her leaving and leads to my fav song, Shadowland, which wasn't even in the movie. >:(
He isn't "lying." He's "lion." You missed a good pun there, joelypolyoly... 😤😤😤💪🏻💪🏻✊🏻💯💯
scar at 16:22 looks so invested. the creators were so good at making real lions that they've become sentient and thus, bored with the script and are just chilling
"A hyena's belly is never full."
Disney endorsing Yeenoghu? Lion King 2019 has more in common with D&D 5th Edition than its source material. Disney pls
Daughter Of Frankenstein Ah yes, a man of fine taste in hyena men
You too are cultured I see
Did you know that real animals can actually emote? Jon didn't, Jon fucking didn't.
"lions are more aesthetically pleasing than hyenas"... canceled
*explaining the problems with treating a beings like hunger machines*... fine, uncanceled
I left this comment on a video a while back that I want to reiterate:
There's a bit in the Lion King that really sticks with me, watching this movie years later. As you point out, Simba says "Don't we eat the antelope?" Simba, and the rest of the lions, as members of the ruling class, maintain their power and existence through the death, suffering, and literal consumption of the various prey, who, as we have seen, are creatures bearing sentience, and whom we might interpret to be an analogy to the lower classes. And Mufasa doesn't, like, deny this. Or make excuses for it. He does the opposite. He outright says that it's a good thing. He talks about how there is a natural cycle in life, and that it must be maintained for the good of all. And then Scar comes in, and takes a group which has been cast out from society, and uses them to overthrow an oppressive and murderous power structure. After which, everything goes to shit. Order, society, and the ecosystem are only restored after the previous oppressive power structure is restored. Now, of course in nature, the preservation of the ecosystem is important. Over hunting or a lack of predators are both threats to the ecosystem. And so Scar, by enabling over hunting, is, rather understandably, portrayed as being wrong by the film.
But read as an allegory, independent of the framework of the story as occurring in nature, the film is kind of messed up. The film asserts that what we might see as "unnecessary" death and suffering at the hand of oppressive power structures, is in fact, very much justified. That a society in which the ruling class quite literally kill and feed off of the lower class, is justified. Not because "might makes right". Or because the lower classes are somehow "deserving" of this status. But because anything other than this is apparently unsustainable.
In a way, the film is kind of like that age old argument for Capitalism: that no matter how many people suffer, no matter how many people die, no matter how many people are oppressed, no matter how many people are exploited, no matter how obviously, inexcusably bad things become, we cannot do anything to change, much less fix, our situation, because, for some reason, this is "the only system that works".
PS. One may also interpret the film as saying that attempts at revolution and change will inevitably perpetuate the same injustices of the previous system (again tying back to that idea of "this is the only sustainable option). After all, save for the rectification of the implied ethnic cleansing of the hyenas, most of the injustices of Mufasa's reign persist.
What I'm trying to say is that the hyenas are a Leninist Vanguard Party.
U really overthinking this🤣🤣focus on ground reality issues of our society
@@Someone-hl5gr That is focusing on the "ground reality issues of our society".
@@Nicolai0Nerland no that's focusing on a film that most of the victims of these problems wouldn't even HV the money to see
But over hunting is also massacring the lower classes, you just switched the power balance so the formerly oppressed group can now oppress and kill as they like. And now they have the added disadvantage that their new leader doesn't care about the ecosystem, the "lower classes" or about maintaining anyone except for himself. While I get how you may interpret Mufasa talking about the Circle of Life as an inherently oppressive ideology, I think it's more like "We need to eat and we also give back that's how nature works, but you mustn't take more than you need and still respect others".
Lion King: This is our problem free philosophy
Big Joel: be prepared
"You don't even have to hunt and eat me... That's fine. Don't worry about it."
😅😂🤣
The original Lion King makes more sense when it’s contextualized as a retelling of Hamlet. Even so, everything you bring up about the remake is true, and without the mystical stuff it all falls flat.
Just fyi Joel, hyenas aren‘t dogs nor are they closely related to them. They are actually more closely related to meerkats, mongooses and even cats.
No, they're dogs that want to eat big supper
Woa, I didn’t know that!
This channel is ruining everything for me.
I used to remember this movie as a comforting story from my childhood.
Now I see Mufasa as an imperialist neoliberal dictator who controls the means of production by oppressing the hyenas while constructing a patriarchal regime.
Eagle123456x honestly a better way to show the morals would be “we lions kill quick and as painlessly and respectfully as possible, while the hyenas play with their food and laugh at their pain.”
Scar wants the iron throne!
Wait wrong story.
Not even neoliberal since Mufasa makes no attempts to obfuscate the power relations of his society. It's very clear cut. It is simply an autocracy with a benevolent leader
@@Onehundredpounds It was a joke Erica, not intended as a rigorous socio economic analysis.
Big Joel talks to me like I'm 8 and honestly I'm here for it
12:14 This scene gets quite sinister when you realise the “food” they’re talking about is the same as the loyal subjects who celebrated Simba’s at the beginning
Goodbye sweaters :(
Love the change in backgrounds to nature and greenery! It suits you Joel, always waiting for a new videoooooo
This was an excellent analysis!
Also, the lion king does indeed slap my entire bod. I’ll be using that phrase for everything from now on
"It is usual to speak of the Fascist objective as the 'beehive state,' which does grave injustice to bees. A world of rabbits ruled by stoats would be nearer the mark.
"
-George Orwell
Yes. Embrace the hyena love. They are good dogs
@brandon roberts: Especially if they're gorgeous while doing it, LOOK AT DEM MANES!!
Not dogs
Princess Jello Correct, they're not technically dogs. But they look like dogs and they're good.
brandon roberts Lions are cool but I have a soft for the laughing weirdos. Did you know that their bite force is higher than a lion's?
@@SkyBlueMistGhost Those good yeens can chomp right through giraffe bones!!!
I think the circle of life is just a dumbed down version of trying to explain what an ecosystem is, where the predator/prey relationship is very important and if thrown out of order can lead to some pretty horrendous results for the entire ecosystem.
0:48 I heard it as "He's just lion" haha.
Huh. I'd never questioned how the original justified monarchy. The over the top colors and elements of mysticism just flipped a switch in my head to say "ah, the world building doesn't need to make sense, this is a purely personal story of one person, Simba. The rest of the world is just a metaphor for his moral journey." which I guess just shows how well it worked at getting in that 'monarchy is okay' propaganda across. After all, it is incredibly priviledged to the think the world is just there for you to use a springboard to grow. A king would totally justify their staying king in the frame of learning their lesson and therefore deserving to stay king as the conclusion of that learning.
"Why is it that we want so badly for Simba to win?" "Because his winning literally paints the more beautiful picture."
So, what you're saying is, The Lion King has turned its politics into aesthetics. Swear I've heard of that somewhere before...
Bod Slappaganda.
The themes of The Lion King are deeply rooted in the American approach to politics.
Take what you can now, rationalize your actions later. Empires are justified by the status and prestige of those who lead them, rather than the effects they have on everyone.
I mean, not really? It's more akin to Buddhist principles of all life being connected to eachother through the cycle of life and death, yin and yang. There's no pushing of "take what you can", it's take what's necessary and respect life in every form. I thought it was clear that the symbolism were more of religious and mystical themes, and especially due to the plot being ripped from "kimba the white lion", a japanese manga
I love reading books where the characters are animals instead of people. As a result, I gave reading Redwall a try because it is one of the most well-known examples of anthropomorphic fiction. The problem I had with Redwall, though, was how clearly divided good vs. evil was along species lines; it just makes for an uncomfortable metaphor is you try to look further into the text. Also, what if I really like weasels and ferrets and I would like to see them be heroes sometimes?
I have partial face blindness so that might explain it, but the lions at 18:16 look exactly the same to me.
Long story short, the original movie is Lion Hamlet and the use of cartoon animals offers it a reprieve from reality that lets us focus on THAT part of the plot rather than being close enough to real nature that we get sidetracked.
First off, great video, as always
Second, can we get a separate upload for the part with Simba and Scar just blabbing?
I want a Big Joel fandub of the entire film.
@@blarg2429 omg yes please
I feel like in the 2019 version the voice acting wasn't as good either, it wasn't as emotional, powerful and had no oomph to it. That's what gave the characters their individuality yet that's totally stripped from the already ruined realistic image of these animals. It also felt like it had no tone difference. In the original when Sarabi is called up to Scar, Scar does it with such power that its legitimately intimidating, however in the 2019 version there's nothing like that, its dull and it doesn't catch you. Even in the scene with Mufasa where he saves Simba from the hyenas, in the original he had a booming voice to scare the hyenas away and even afterwards had that disappointing tone in his voice when he confronts Simba about his silly actions which endangered him and Nala, but in the 2019 version it's completely stripped down and bare, almost as if they didn't have any bother to it.
And the most aggravating scene is the scene where Mufasa returns in the clouds to tell Simba that he has to face Scar and his responsibilities, in the original it was overwhelming, it was emotional and one of the best scenes in my opinion in terms of soundtrack, imagery and acting yet in the 2019 one I can't even remember the scene, that's how little Impact it had on me compared to the original and feel like that is the serious problem with the movie, it's forgettable, yet the original is unforgettable.
" the lion king objectively slaps. It slaps my entire bod" i need to travel back in time to make this my yearbook quote
I would also say the expressive nature of the original movie's aesthetic makes you focus more on the emotions of the individuals rather than the ethics of the big whole