The Chinese carriers are so far only vessels for trials, tech and doctrine development. They are just trying to figure out how to make the concept of carrying operational squadrons of fighter aircraft at sea work for them. With that said, the Chinese capabilities should not be underestimated.
Officially the first one (Liaoning) was a training carrier from commissioning in 2012 until 2018, then it was assigned to a fleet and has been operational since then. In practice it's both, all of their carriers will be a mix of development and active service for the foreseeable future.
@@GaarslNo hes not. Overestimating is not as bad as underestimating, but its still bad. The chinese themselves admit these carriers are as much tech demonstrators / trainers , as it is a combat ready ship. Remember, China is rushing to catch up. When we did it, we had the luxury to take our time and do everything step by step. The Chinese are doing everything at once. Their first nuclear carrier will be their first real carrier is how i see it.
@@GIN.356.A china is marching step by step. with 001 to 003，we can predict what 004 is. it is certain that 003 is far from chinas limit. China is holding the progress down for steady success
The PLAN learned basic Carrier Ops from the Brazilian Navy after the US Navy taught them Basic Carrier Ops a few years before. I was an observer watching LSOs with VFA-105 and asked one of the guys if we had started training the Chinese and his words were "Thankfully, we are not that bad yet". At the time there was a push for "make nice with the PRC". At the time, the PLAN had yet to refit the Liaoning. There was a building shaped like the Carrier and the "students" learned how to park and move aircraft of the flight deck. Never figured out if they were retired hulks or simple mockups.
Don't be surprised, there are a large number of American instructors on board the Liaoning, and the Chinese government has recruited a group of aircraft carrier operators and carrier-based aircraft pilots through Blackwater. The cooperation with Brazil is because China wants to develop catapult aircraft carriers. According to us, Chinese carrier-based aircraft pilots have been trained on Brazilian aircraft carriers for a period of time. It is an open secret that the Chinese air force also recruits Britain at very high salaries, and uses French and American pilots as blue forces to confront the various units of the PLA Air Force
They are very methodical in their approach (some say to careful), taking small steps starting with the half-finished soviet carrier then built their own modified version of that from scratch before starting on this one. While the steps are small the pace is fast and as we have seen with surface combatants once they have a design they are happy with they turn the production up to eleven. My guess is we will see something similar here where all of a sudden we see 4 of them being built at the same time.. The thing to keep in mind with China is both how fast they have advanced and how far behind they were, when the Nimitz was commissioned in 1975 the average income in China was below most African countries and people where still using sailboats to transport goods along the coast ! If you judge them based on what they produced just 15-20 years ago you will get the completely wrong idea, it is a different country today. Just to give a hint of the change, 15 years ago China installed about 6k industrial robots per year and the U.S 24k, in 2023 the U.S installed 40k and China 336k.
I never understand why folks think this doesn’t have potential of being a good boat. I mean sure China makes some crappy stuff but they make some pretty good stuff too. I mean look how long it took the Ford Class to get designed to operational and they are still tweaking it. Or look at the UK with their 2 carriers…they are always down for maintenance or something is broke.
I wonder about how they manage to power the E-rails as far as I understand they do need a lot power to work, and this is convential powered ship. So that engine need to supply power to the props and generators and all other stuff that is powered by electricy just a thought.
There is enough electrical power available in total but the peak demand of the catapults requires a boost from batteries, capacitors, or flywheels. The exact layout is unknown but they appear to be struggling with providing enough velocity to the test sleds. That suggests that they may have to rework some of the power and catapult systems soon.
Recently there is a video done by "China Uncnsored" by Chris Chapell talking about that Fujian carrier and its powerplant. It's more of a news channel than some military channel so info are "limited" [they source multiple articles for it]. TDLR: CCP claim to have some breakthrough with their diesel powerplant to be able to have that extra "oomph" to power the E-rails. The host [or someone else] said, it might work but may take some time to "charge it up" before firing, so the frequency is unlikely to be great, slower rate compared to the US.
@@Dragon-g9k7vthe Chinese system uses IC system which is more efficient and stable then American AC system. The original design for this carrier was using steam system. The Chinese have tested both systems successfully on land. They eventually decided to go with the electromagnetic system because they were quite satisfied with it.
@@MuhammadAli-255 "that’s the same dude that said China will collapse 2012, totally credible channel." Did you even watched the video instead of just reading the clickbait title?
I did see another "review" of this vessel which said they'll have a lot of dramas with the catapult system as they haven't had the learning curve with steam systems and the US is only now going into electromagnetic systems on the Ford class. Also they have very limited catapult capable aircraft and they are all tied up in training squadrons from what this review said
I'm more curious what how up to speed their anti-sub capability is and what the average VA rating for hearing loss is for the sonarmen following it is.
Unless you've been to China and inspected their equipment for yourself(which I'm sure you haven't) you couldn't possibly know that. Sure, that's the narrative, but is it true? Who knows. I don't and neither do you. What I do know is it's foolish to underestimate your enemy. @@Sturmvogel8964
@@Sturmvogel8964China's conventional submarines are not lagging behind, and their nuclear submarine technology is indeed much behind the United States, Britain, France and Russia, so you are really naive to look at their anti-submarine capability in the past. They have not only developed anti-submarine aircraft similar to P8A, but also the navy's anti-submarine capability is not much worse than the United States after the service of the new equipment
It's nice that people outside of Taiwan are talking about it. It's impossible to have a rational discussion about it in Taiwan. We've got one group who consider Fujian a taboo and will ostracize to the pointiest extent possible anyone who attempts to talk about it for any purpose other than asserting that it will sink without outside intervention, and then the other who are so desperate to see the former knocked down a peg that they'll take anything that even remotely upsets those people.
Hahaha, what you said is completely beyond my expectation. I didn’t expect Taiwanese people to have such a twisted mentality. In fact, 90% of Taiwanese are Han Chinese who immigrated from Fujian after 1640, and Fujianese happened to be Han Chinese who migrated from the core area of the Han Chinese. After the Qing Dynasty took over Taiwan in 1860, the Manchu rulers implemented a strict isolation policy on them to prevent the Han Chinese from occupying the land of the indigenous people, including restricting the Han Chinese from purchasing the land of the indigenous people and intermarrying. This led to such a result that non-indigenous Taiwanese are the purest Han Chinese in the world. In fact, various ethnic groups in mainland China have been integrated, and the boundary between the Han and ethnic minorities is not clear. Many people who claim to be Han are actually naturalized ethnic minorities.
I actually think China's approach is smart. They built this one Type 003 and the next is nuclear powered Type 004. They have no need to start with nuclear until they trained and worked out any kinks on a conventionally powered boat. Also, China does not have to match US carrier fleet size, They are mainly interested in the Pacific and South China Sea. They can keep those areas under patrol with 3-5 carrier fleets. I agree with Mover we should never underestimate our potential adversary.
Well its still prototype because so far china has shortcutted its way to being a naval power by copying everyones notes as it were. Now its at the phase where copying people doesnt they got delevop the capability and experience themselves and that will take decades of constant operations. The reason why most nations dont have carriers is because its complicated and expensive and at the end of it the nation is going to have justify the expenditure and it not something you can shake and bake.
Here’s my question about all the major warships that the PLAN has laid, launched, and commissioned; Where are they getting all the captains? There’s are report stating they plan to put ten ships a year into service implying there’s a pipeline producing the required experienced captains every year. Okay I suppose that’s possible. Now how about division leads? Someone has to be able to tell the junior folks what to do.
FYI: In the last decade China's built 9+ airstrips, on land its reclaimed in the South China Sea, their location is known, but they're less sinkable than a carrier, also far cheaper to build and operate, and similarly pack a variety of air defences, in addition to a couple of squadrons of full fat fighters. Add the reclaimed ports, and the 99 year port / base leases with Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Myanmar, Djibouti, ... . Add the infrastructure deals with Indonesia, Laos, Solomon Islands, Panama, ... . Unless someone makes like Putin, and reclaims the Philippines colony, as a historic US territory, the Pacific will be China's plaything for the next century.
The island has all equipment, AESA radars integrated inside, resulting in a smooth and flush surface on the exterior (similar to the bridge of type 055, and Zumwalt). As opposed to the “cluttered” island of the Ford showing that it hasn’t been able to integrate all the systems. Apparently, the Fujian class has a better integrated electronic system than the Ford, and this is only their 3rd carriers. Any sensible military personnel (like Gonky) would like to know how China got it done. And Mover was like “with Chinaaaaa?” The level of arrogance is stunning.
I always found it funny how submariners would call surface guys "targets" I'm just sayin...when was the last time an Aircraft Carrier sank vs a Submarine? WW2? I'd rather die on a ship during war time than becoming a mud dart because our boat collided with a whale during peace time.....
@tlsvd5842 lmao... I'm American... Trust me, I'm not jealous. It's laughable that you think that a the world's superpower is afraid of a Temu quality boat. Sounds like the jealousy is on your end.
@@originalcolor lmao... thanks for making my point...Because it's CHEAP. Nobody buys anything off of Temu because they want to use it six months later. 😆
A mag cat on a conventional carrier, eh? 🤣 Because the US Navy had overlooked that possibility, right? How to say "this whole thing is a procurement scam designed to fail" without actually saying so...
Plan is to put a reactor in the follow on to Fujian. Then build up to 10 of those. Fujian is meant to give them experience with flat top operations and work out the problems with everything else. Meanwhile that gives them more time to refine their naval reactor designs.
Its the biggest paper tiger in the world. The issues with Chinese Naval aircraft have been publically documented in China. If theyre dojng that: This will only be ampified.
Sounds like cope to me. Seems obvious that the Chinese are dead-serious about developing these capabilities and the required expertise to make use of them. You can pretend they're too incompetent to do it if it makes you feel better, but it doesn't change the fact that they're moving forward AND spending the money.
Not really a copy of any particular carrier but definitely inspired by the US carriers in features and systems. They are roughly equivalent to a Kitty Hawk class in size and shape but have more modern systems similar to some in Nimitz and Ford class.
The Chinese carriers are so far only vessels for trials, tech and doctrine development. They are just trying to figure out how to make the concept of carrying operational squadrons of fighter aircraft at sea work for them. With that said, the Chinese capabilities should not be underestimated.
Officially the first one (Liaoning) was a training carrier from commissioning in 2012 until 2018, then it was assigned to a fleet and has been operational since then. In practice it's both, all of their carriers will be a mix of development and active service for the foreseeable future.
you r underestimating
@@GaarslNo hes not. Overestimating is not as bad as underestimating, but its still bad. The chinese themselves admit these carriers are as much tech demonstrators / trainers , as it is a combat ready ship.
Remember, China is rushing to catch up. When we did it, we had the luxury to take our time and do everything step by step. The Chinese are doing everything at once. Their first nuclear carrier will be their first real carrier is how i see it.
@@GIN.356.A china is marching step by step. with 001 to 003，we can predict what 004 is. it is certain that 003 is far from chinas limit. China is holding the progress down for steady success
The PLAN learned basic Carrier Ops from the Brazilian Navy after the US Navy taught them Basic Carrier Ops a few years before. I was an observer watching LSOs with VFA-105 and asked one of the guys if we had started training the Chinese and his words were "Thankfully, we are not that bad yet". At the time there was a push for "make nice with the PRC". At the time, the PLAN had yet to refit the Liaoning. There was a building shaped like the Carrier and the "students" learned how to park and move aircraft of the flight deck. Never figured out if they were retired hulks or simple mockups.
Don't be surprised, there are a large number of American instructors on board the Liaoning, and the Chinese government has recruited a group of aircraft carrier operators and carrier-based aircraft pilots through Blackwater. The cooperation with Brazil is because China wants to develop catapult aircraft carriers. According to us, Chinese carrier-based aircraft pilots have been trained on Brazilian aircraft carriers for a period of time. It is an open secret that the Chinese air force also recruits Britain at very high salaries, and uses French and American pilots as blue forces to confront the various units of the PLA Air Force
They are very methodical in their approach (some say to careful), taking small steps starting with the half-finished soviet carrier then built their own modified version of that from scratch before starting on this one. While the steps are small the pace is fast and as we have seen with surface combatants once they have a design they are happy with they turn the production up to eleven.
My guess is we will see something similar here where all of a sudden we see 4 of them being built at the same time..
The thing to keep in mind with China is both how fast they have advanced and how far behind they were, when the Nimitz was commissioned in 1975 the average income in China was below most African countries and people where still using sailboats to transport goods along the coast !
If you judge them based on what they produced just 15-20 years ago you will get the completely wrong idea, it is a different country today.
Just to give a hint of the change, 15 years ago China installed about 6k industrial robots per year and the U.S 24k, in 2023 the U.S installed 40k and China 336k.
I never understand why folks think this doesn’t have potential of being a good boat. I mean sure China makes some crappy stuff but they make some pretty good stuff too. I mean look how long it took the Ford Class to get designed to operational and they are still tweaking it. Or look at the UK with their 2 carriers…they are always down for maintenance or something is broke.
Tends to be emotional and/or ignorance driven.
So far the catapult has been under performing in tests. But that is something that they could potentially fix over time.
It'll be a fine boat, but it just seems...unnecessary for a country like China.
Despite having built 3 carriers, ppl still scoff at China. The British carriers keep breaking down again and again, nobody scoffs at them.
China did build a space station.
If you order cheap stuff, you get cheap stuff, China can build any quality asked for.
I wonder about how they manage to power the E-rails as far as I understand they do need a lot power to work, and this is convential powered ship. So that engine need to supply power to the props and generators and all other stuff that is powered by electricy just a thought.
There is enough electrical power available in total but the peak demand of the catapults requires a boost from batteries, capacitors, or flywheels. The exact layout is unknown but they appear to be struggling with providing enough velocity to the test sleds. That suggests that they may have to rework some of the power and catapult systems soon.
Recently there is a video done by "China Uncnsored" by Chris Chapell talking about that Fujian carrier and its powerplant. It's more of a news channel than some military channel so info are "limited" [they source multiple articles for it].
TDLR: CCP claim to have some breakthrough with their diesel powerplant to be able to have that extra "oomph" to power the E-rails. The host [or someone else] said, it might work but may take some time to "charge it up" before firing, so the frequency is unlikely to be great, slower rate compared to the US.
@@Dragon-g9k7vthe Chinese system uses IC system which is more efficient and stable then American AC system. The original design for this carrier was using steam system. The Chinese have tested both systems successfully on land. They eventually decided to go with the electromagnetic system because they were quite satisfied with it.
@@Dragon-g9k7v that’s the same dude that said China will collapse 2012, totally credible channel.
@@MuhammadAli-255 "that’s the same dude that said China will collapse 2012, totally credible channel."
Did you even watched the video instead of just reading the clickbait title?
I did see another "review" of this vessel which said they'll have a lot of dramas with the catapult system as they haven't had the learning curve with steam systems and the US is only now going into electromagnetic systems on the Ford class.
Also they have very limited catapult capable aircraft and they are all tied up in training squadrons from what this review said
I don’t believe they have had a successful night trap on this masterpiece yet
I'm more curious what how up to speed their anti-sub capability is and what the average VA rating for hearing loss is for the sonarmen following it is.
Their ASW capabilities are way behind the west and their subs are paper tigers.
Unless you've been to China and inspected their equipment for yourself(which I'm sure you haven't) you couldn't possibly know that. Sure, that's the narrative, but is it true? Who knows. I don't and neither do you. What I do know is it's foolish to underestimate your enemy. @@Sturmvogel8964
@@Sturmvogel8964China's conventional submarines are not lagging behind, and their nuclear submarine technology is indeed much behind the United States, Britain, France and Russia, so you are really naive to look at their anti-submarine capability in the past. They have not only developed anti-submarine aircraft similar to P8A, but also the navy's anti-submarine capability is not much worse than the United States after the service of the new equipment
The force projection only needs to go as far as their ballistic missile unbrella.
Maybe how they operate their 2 previous aircraft carrier
It's nice that people outside of Taiwan are talking about it.
It's impossible to have a rational discussion about it in Taiwan. We've got one group who consider Fujian a taboo and will ostracize to the pointiest extent possible anyone who attempts to talk about it for any purpose other than asserting that it will sink without outside intervention, and then the other who are so desperate to see the former knocked down a peg that they'll take anything that even remotely upsets those people.
Hahaha, what you said is completely beyond my expectation. I didn’t expect Taiwanese people to have such a twisted mentality.
In fact, 90% of Taiwanese are Han Chinese who immigrated from Fujian after 1640, and Fujianese happened to be Han Chinese who migrated from the core area of the Han Chinese. After the Qing Dynasty took over Taiwan in 1860, the Manchu rulers implemented a strict isolation policy on them to prevent the Han Chinese from occupying the land of the indigenous people, including restricting the Han Chinese from purchasing the land of the indigenous people and intermarrying. This led to such a result that non-indigenous Taiwanese are the purest Han Chinese in the world. In fact, various ethnic groups in mainland China have been integrated, and the boundary between the Han and ethnic minorities is not clear. Many people who claim to be Han are actually naturalized ethnic minorities.
I actually think China's approach is smart. They built this one Type 003 and the next is nuclear powered Type 004. They have no need to start with nuclear until they trained and worked out any kinks on a conventionally powered boat. Also, China does not have to match US carrier fleet size, They are mainly interested in the Pacific and South China Sea. They can keep those areas under patrol with 3-5 carrier fleets. I agree with Mover we should never underestimate our potential adversary.
american power is waining
This means Water Hours! for the crew, Try taking a shower after your last night trap on a 27 Charlie Carrier! No Way! Maybe these guys don't care?
Sailing video:
th-cam.com/video/soEpAprko7w/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xhxnw0N0UoqM1Wcf
Well its still prototype because so far china has shortcutted its way to being a naval power by copying everyones notes as it were. Now its at the phase where copying people doesnt they got delevop the capability and experience themselves and that will take decades of constant operations. The reason why most nations dont have carriers is because its complicated and expensive and at the end of it the nation is going to have justify the expenditure and it not something you can shake and bake.
Does China put them through shock trials?
Here’s my question about all the major warships that the PLAN has laid, launched, and commissioned; Where are they getting all the captains? There’s are report stating they plan to put ten ships a year into service implying there’s a pipeline producing the required experienced captains every year. Okay I suppose that’s possible. Now how about division leads? Someone has to be able to tell the junior folks what to do.
They need to be able to defend it against sophisticated missiles. I wonder if it is even safe from relatively cheap drones.
FYI: In the last decade China's built 9+ airstrips, on land its reclaimed in the South China Sea, their location is known, but they're less sinkable than a carrier, also far cheaper to build and operate, and similarly pack a variety of air defences, in addition to a couple of squadrons of full fat fighters. Add the reclaimed ports, and the 99 year port / base leases with Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Myanmar, Djibouti, ... . Add the infrastructure deals with Indonesia, Laos, Solomon Islands, Panama, ... .
Unless someone makes like Putin, and reclaims the Philippines colony, as a historic US territory, the Pacific will be China's plaything for the next century.
The island has all equipment, AESA radars integrated inside, resulting in a smooth and flush surface on the exterior (similar to the bridge of type 055, and Zumwalt). As opposed to the “cluttered” island of the Ford showing that it hasn’t been able to integrate all the systems.
Apparently, the Fujian class has a better integrated electronic system than the Ford, and this is only their 3rd carriers. Any sensible military personnel (like Gonky) would like to know how China got it done. And Mover was like “with Chinaaaaa?” The level of arrogance is stunning.
Mover was referring to the fact that such a program would expose our carrier tech to China and he's right that would be a big no no.
They'll just starve the crew and beat them if they complain?
The hangar deck is a rice patty
I’d be surprised if it can manage a 6 month tour without its tofu-dreg construction causing constant breakdowns
Big boat. Big target
I always found it funny how submariners would call surface guys "targets"
I'm just sayin...when was the last time an Aircraft Carrier sank vs a Submarine?
WW2?
I'd rather die on a ship during war time than becoming a mud dart because our boat collided with a whale during peace time.....
They have a lot more escorts than we do, covering fewer carriers.
That's cool...
This thing is going to provide hundreds of years of safety and protection to Chinese fish as a reef.
Don’t be jealous
@tlsvd5842 lmao... I'm American...
Trust me, I'm not jealous. It's laughable that you think that a the world's superpower is afraid of a Temu quality boat.
Sounds like the jealousy is on your end.
@@Tyrannosaurus_STFU_IIIthen you’re ignorant
@@Tyrannosaurus_STFU_III
Why the most powerful country's people like TEMU so much?
@@originalcolor lmao... thanks for making my point...Because it's CHEAP. Nobody buys anything off of Temu because they want to use it six months later. 😆
Sets sail to sink
A mag cat on a conventional carrier, eh? 🤣 Because the US Navy had overlooked that possibility, right?
How to say "this whole thing is a procurement scam designed to fail" without actually saying so...
Fength Shui play havoc with the flightdeck.
It can split the UK carrier in half just by sailing through it
Algorithmic engagement comment.
I heard on the future Nuke boats they will be building two at a time.
Plan is to put a reactor in the follow on to Fujian. Then build up to 10 of those. Fujian is meant to give them experience with flat top operations and work out the problems with everything else. Meanwhile that gives them more time to refine their naval reactor designs.
All the chief engineers of this carrier are currently in prison. Just another giant scam for taxpayer money.
That was the B-2/B-21 ;)
@@tigersilberhannes9153 that was your garbage leopards now displaying at Putin’s pleasure 😂
Nazi defending commies how fitting 🥴
Its the biggest paper tiger in the world. The issues with Chinese Naval aircraft have been publically documented in China. If theyre dojng that:
This will only be ampified.
Don’t be jealous, US don’t have space stations of their own, US asking China to be on their space stations and was denied by China
Sounds like cope to me.
Seems obvious that the Chinese are dead-serious about developing these capabilities and the required expertise to make use of them.
You can pretend they're too incompetent to do it if it makes you feel better, but it doesn't change the fact that they're moving forward AND spending the money.
It's a copy of a U.S. Carrier
Not really a copy of any particular carrier but definitely inspired by the US carriers in features and systems. They are roughly equivalent to a Kitty Hawk class in size and shape but have more modern systems similar to some in Nimitz and Ford class.
It's a logical arrangement.
Not really an inspired design.
You can only do a very few things differently for these things
渔船而已，别紧张
看这几位的表情像家里死了人一样。