Ok I just released a video that shows all 16 different V/F settings which on this inverter changes how the motor sounds. You can watch it here if you are interested. th-cam.com/video/o1VeemnoV-Q/w-d-xo.html
@@FarmYardGaming I'm afraid I have no idea ;) Such changes these days are usually down to software and I sometimes get the feeling hardly anyone knows EXACTLY what every piece of code does and it comes down to 'well.. it works, doesn't it?' Could of course just be extra wear on the brakes if they continued right down to the moment where they just had to keep braking mechanically, or just a bit more comfort by getting the mechanic brakes to kick in just a tad earlier ;) )
@@Alexander470815 Really? I really got the idea that this drive was braking the motor. Even the very old-fashioned stuff I got in education to become an electrician could do that (be it with a kind of add-on that also incorporated the braking resistors to dump the energy in to). My own motor has quite longer freewheeling runtime when power is removed, so I automatically assumed this one could do that and was doing that ;)
strictly speaking from inverter technology point of view, we have advanced to the point that we don't need that much carrier frequency changes to achieve performance and efficiency. modern inverters use that maybe only once and are much performant than these old drives.
@@frommarkham424oh, my bad, I kinda thought they all had them... Edit: it would be cool if electric cars had the same acceleration and deceleration sounds as electric trains. I think it's impossible tho...
Actually it is for passenger comfort. Since we are railway fans, we love the sound of trains, but for a passenger whose purpose is only to "travel from point A to point B" it will be annoying, especially on long trips (This also happens with car fans)
my guess would be on efficiency. every bit of energy, that does not go towards it's intended use, means worse efficiency. and especially with electric cars, that fight for every kilometer of range they can get, even this could be a power saving measure
Oh I didn't build this but got the motor and inverter used. However I plan on making an inverter where you can customize the sounds. I will post that once I get it working.
I once made a "fake inverter" that sounded like this, made out of an Arduino board (Esplora I think), a small inverter made of 6 small bipolar transistors and 6 diodes on a breadboard and a small motor like the ones found in cdrom drives. I you have an arduino I can send you the code. Edit : the motor is a small 3-phase alternator like the one found in crank-powered radios and flashlights (the windings have an impedance of 50 ohms)
what actually emits the sound, is it from the inverter itself, or the electric motor resonating? as in, which thing here is shaking the air that we hear?
So this one takes in 120v single phase and runs a motor on 240v 3 phase. It has an internal transformer to convert the voltage. If you care about an interesting motor sound I recommend looking for an older vfd.
It depends on the model but most likely no. This one is very old and comes like this from the factory. Newer models run at a much higher pwm frequency and sound much different. If you want to be able to customize the sound you have to build your own drive which I am working on.
That's cool your making a game! Sure! You can use the sound. Just mention my channel. Although I am probably going to make another video about this VVVF inverter soon because there are different settings that change the sound a bit.
I will need to make a video on that but I can give you the short version. The sound comes from how the controller generates ac power. It generates a series of pwm pulses which approximates a sine wave. However you also hear those pwm pulses. The reason you hear the "gear changing" sound is due to older controllers like this one being programmed that way.
@@ylchoibus11082it actuakly does spund alot more like the 465s brush traction more than 323s here Old brush 465 trqction example: please see attached th-cam.com/video/hnfSaAsAW4Y/w-d-xo.htmlsi=E0qG71_9rLF0lvCD
The R211 uses asynchronous PWM when it starts which has a constant tone but as it speeds up it switches to synchronous PWM which sort of sounds like gear changing. This inverter only uses synchronous PWM.
@@I.NSORGE This model is the Toshiba VF Pack P but it is a special 110v input model that I have not been able to find again. But you can find something similar by searching Toshiba transistor inverter ESP130. It may not sound like the one in the video though. Make sure to check the input and output voltage. Also keep in mind some models are single phase input and others are three phase input.
Actually oldest metro trains in Helsinki Finland has still one of the oldest VVVF-inverter there is. Model is from 1977 th-cam.com/video/pNezFpOrR-M/w-d-xo.html
Using GTO modules would require a complete change in driver circuitry to use since this inverter uses power transistors. Actually, the type of semiconductor switch does not affect the sound at all. It is all comes down to programming. The reason why most inverters with GTO inverters sound like they do is because they cannot run a high frequencies.
La tecnología de los viejos toshiba no tiene nada que ver con la del video, usan clásicos motores de corriente continua y seguramente controlados mediante resistencias, mientras que lo del video muestra un motor de corriente alterna trifásica controlado mediante un inversor de voltaje variable - frecuencia variable, tecnología que ya incorpora automatismos como microprocesadores y electrónica compleja, por ponerte un ejemplo el subte serie 100, usan inversores con tiristores GTO de la francesa Alstom. En resumen los clásicos y venerables toshibas no tienen nada de electrónica, son pura mecánica dura y simple con muchísimos cables y relés
The R211 uses asynchronous PWM when it starts which has a constant tone but as it speeds up it switches to synchronous PWM which sort of sounds like gear changing. This inverter only uses synchronous PWM.
this is certainly not the first VVVF, there were prototype locomotives in the 60's and I imagine that there were already realizations in test bench even older than that
@@yourgeekoftheweek it would be necessary to know from when this inverter was marketed 👀 for comparison the first production locomotive to be equipped with a vvvf converter dates from 1976
@@nooxis2643 I have tried to find some information on the model I have however I couldn't find any sort of manual specific to this model. The best I know is that it was made before 1984 since it uses the old Toshiba logo which was changed in 1984.
@@TheSearleFamily123 uuh... no, one of the very first three-phase realization that I know dates from 1965 by Brush Traction on the diesel locomotive named class 10800 "Hawk"
![All Of The VF Settings Plus A Glitch On One of The First Ever VVVF Inverters [Toshiba PTR-VVVF]](/img/n.gif)
Ok I just released a video that shows all 16 different V/F settings which on this inverter changes how the motor sounds. You can watch it here if you are interested. th-cam.com/video/o1VeemnoV-Q/w-d-xo.html
everyone gangsta until the bench actually starts sound like a locomotive
In china someone modified an electric bike to this
Lol
@@cytlrus damn I want that bike so much then
More like an EMU but i get you😂😂
OK, I'm a year late but it sounds a lot like a class 465 train
Great example of how regenerative breaking can't be done down to absolute zero rpm but cuts out shortly before that point.
Out of interest, the 1996 stock on the Jubilee line cuts out near the end nowadays, much earlier tha it used to. Do you have any idea why?
@@FarmYardGaming I'm afraid I have no idea ;) Such changes these days are usually down to software and I sometimes get the feeling hardly anyone knows EXACTLY what every piece of code does and it comes down to 'well.. it works, doesn't it?'
Could of course just be extra wear on the brakes if they continued right down to the moment where they just had to keep braking mechanically, or just a bit more comfort by getting the mechanic brakes to kick in just a tad earlier ;) )
@@weeardguy Thanks for the perspective! :)
Well this drive can`t do it. Modern ones can, no problem there.
@@Alexander470815 Really? I really got the idea that this drive was braking the motor. Even the very old-fashioned stuff I got in education to become an electrician could do that (be it with a kind of add-on that also incorporated the braking resistors to dump the energy in to). My own motor has quite longer freewheeling runtime when power is removed, so I automatically assumed this one could do that and was doing that ;)
This is how an electric car should sound like
strictly speaking from inverter technology point of view, we have advanced to the point that we don't need that much carrier frequency changes to achieve performance and efficiency. modern inverters use that maybe only once and are much performant than these old drives.
Exactly
@@yourgeekoftheweek But it probably wouldn’t hurt the efficiency to do that. And it would make both the railfans and car guys happy.
I would absolutely love that! :D
@@HIDLad001 different carrier frequencies might yield different efficiencies unfortunately
Gearshifing electric motor is not real. I can't hurt you.
Gearshifting electric motor:
That sounds really awesome, i want one of these old style vfds
They are definitely worth it but they are difficult to find.
Best vvvf sound ever!
It does sound good
やはりPTr-VVVFは良い音がしますね。
日本国内ではJR 701-0(機器未更新車両)とJR 207の二つでしか聞けない音です。
(JR 701-0は既に全ての車両が機器更新されPTr-VVVFが聞けないという情報あり)
JR207-0 PTRの音を録音しましたよ。
That was cool. Reminds of subway trains.
All subways use vvvf inverters.
@@WCE107 Most subways, some of them still use brushed DC motors so they don't need an inverter.
Electric cars also have vvvf inverters
@@frommarkham424oh, my bad, I kinda thought they all had them...
Edit: it would be cool if electric cars had the same acceleration and deceleration sounds as electric trains. I think it's impossible tho...
@@WCE107The switching frequency for those is usually much higher than this relic from the 20th century.
M100 are first train used these. Made by Valmet Strömberg in Finland.
You gotta try that for other motor sounds. Do you think you can replicate Siemens GTO N1000S "singing train", or Hitachi Chopper 041/042 "Jeumont"?
I can't program this one. This is how it sounds from the factory. But I am working on building my own drive that I can customize the sound.
The Jeumont one from the MR 73?
Yes, the one from the Montréal metro...
Same as the MP 82 (México City metro) but it's Alstom
The first part sounded like an R110A but then it gradually becomes an R211
It sound like a the 1996 United kingdom underground subway
And how does it sound like a r211t the new one how do you know theme
@@ceceliagray-alsay82120:07
@@ceceliagray-alsay8212maybe because he lives in new york or watched a video of it??
Why not have these in electric cars instead of needing a fake sound generator to warn pedestrians a silent car is coming.
Don’t ask me. This would definitely be possible, instead they use silent high frequency.
Actually it is for passenger comfort. Since we are railway fans, we love the sound of trains, but for a passenger whose purpose is only to "travel from point A to point B" it will be annoying, especially on long trips (This also happens with car fans)
Okay, I read it for the 2nd time and yes, I hope they put that in electric cars
I wish it was that way. It would make electric cars interesting.
my guess would be on efficiency. every bit of energy, that does not go towards it's intended use, means worse efficiency. and especially with electric cars, that fight for every kilometer of range they can get, even this could be a power saving measure
Sounds like our Z2M train!!!
Sounds like an air raid siren motor
For a second at the start it sounds like a British Rail Class 450 / 444. Is there possibly a way you could recreate one of those motors?
Wow, this is amazing! How do I make something like this?
Oh I didn't build this but got the motor and inverter used. However I plan on making an inverter where you can customize the sounds. I will post that once I get it working.
@@yourgeekoftheweek
Alright, thanks for the answer. I'm gonna stay tuned.
I once made a "fake inverter" that sounded like this, made out of an Arduino board (Esplora I think), a small inverter made of 6 small bipolar transistors and 6 diodes on a breadboard and a small motor like the ones found in cdrom drives. I you have an arduino I can send you the code.
Edit : the motor is a small 3-phase alternator like the one found in crank-powered radios and flashlights (the windings have an impedance of 50 ohms)
Ac , motor ,vf
@@dogshome8658 So it's plug and play I assume?
Reminds me of the British Rail Class 465 and 466, I'm pretty sure they had this motor.
We can get closer still look up a class 323 thats prolly as close u gonna get to this exact sequence lol
I guess Harmonics gonna love this 😅
Sounds like a LG washer and trains nice.
The motor kind of sounds like the motors in the Sydney Trains M set when it’s slowing down
Also the sydney metro, which uses a similar motor as the Millennium.
Could you modify a mosfet to sound like this?
Sound like jr 207 Mitsubishi level3 ptr mix with ttct1 AEG vvvf
Sounds like a R38 with AC traction. 10 of em were retrofitted with Toshiba AC traction motors from 1999 to 2002...
Do you know where there may be video or audio recordings of these? That would be interesting to see.
Do you know who is Martti Harmoinen?
How much powers do this mator make?
This motor is 1/4hp or about 200 watts. The controller is rated for 1hp or about 800 watts.
what actually emits the sound, is it from the inverter itself, or the electric motor resonating? as in, which thing here is shaking the air that we hear?
It's all from the motor
@@yourgeekoftheweek okay, thank you
@@DJSI3434 The sound is caused by the inverter pulsing waves and emitted from the motor.
0:04 starting to hum like class 317 sound and hong kong mlr
How made a Siemens GTO in my house?
the lots of transitions feels like Westinghouse GTO once equipped on Taipei Metro C301 although the pitch is different
The C301 trains had far more PWM modes than this inverter does and both use also different synchronous PWM modes.
I’m planning on getting one of them vfd’s. Did you run that unit on: 110v, 240v or 460v
So this one takes in 120v single phase and runs a motor on 240v 3 phase. It has an internal transformer to convert the voltage. If you care about an interesting motor sound I recommend looking for an older vfd.
@@yourgeekoftheweekthank you.
Is it easy to program a vf drive to sound like that. I have no knowledge in that field
It depends on the model but most likely no. This one is very old and comes like this from the factory. Newer models run at a much higher pwm frequency and sound much different. If you want to be able to customize the sound you have to build your own drive which I am working on.
Hi dude, I’m making a train game, can I use the sound in this video for our trains please?
That's cool your making a game! Sure! You can use the sound. Just mention my channel. Although I am probably going to make another video about this VVVF inverter soon because there are different settings that change the sound a bit.
@@yourgeekoftheweek thanks dude
Can you tell me the name of the Roblox game
wow this sounds like the r110a prototype propulsion
I do believe the R110a only uses synchronous PWM modes however the synchronous PWM modes are not the same.
Hey, it's a Class 323!
I suppose it does sound like it a bit although I am pretty sure the 323s have different PWM modes.
the sound is so similar to the Italian TAF trainsets.
thats hot-
it has 8 speed transmission!
It sounds like the trains when they are speeding up 😂
Modern trains use exactly this kind of inverter.
Kinda reminds me of a t1
Sounds like a Bombardier T1 train
Can you explain why it sounds like that?
I will need to make a video on that but I can give you the short version. The sound comes from how the controller generates ac power. It generates a series of pwm pulses which approximates a sine wave. However you also hear those pwm pulses. The reason you hear the "gear changing" sound is due to older controllers like this one being programmed that way.
フィンランド、ヘルシンキ地下鉄🚇の音みたいですね😊
そうです
0:30 sounded like m set
True
@@Dripnoob69 what are you doing here
@@DripPro69420 pooping
If only the scope would have been properly triggered:'(
I can do a retake sometime
It sounds similar to the Class 465/0 Networker with old brush tractions.
It more like class 323 sound
Nah it actually is more similar to omd class 465 thyristor sounds. The 323 sounds go low pitch and keep going for like 7 times. @@ylchoibus11082
@@ylchoibus11082it actuakly does spund alot more like the 465s brush traction more than 323s here
Old brush 465 trqction example: please see attached
th-cam.com/video/hnfSaAsAW4Y/w-d-xo.htmlsi=E0qG71_9rLF0lvCD
Formula 1 car lanuching from the homestraight.
Is that how Class 360 trains use that
That 0:31 is somehow funny.
sounds like the old 465s
this was made in 1993
0:08 that was a R211
The R211 uses asynchronous PWM when it starts which has a constant tone but as it speeds up it switches to synchronous PWM which sort of sounds like gear changing. This inverter only uses synchronous PWM.
I’m just saying tho it just sound like a R211
But real facts
Donde comprar?
Ebay
@@yourgeekoftheweek what's the name of product in ebay
@@yourgeekoftheweek como encontrarlo
@@I.NSORGE This model is the Toshiba VF Pack P but it is a special 110v input model that I have not been able to find again. But you can find something similar by searching Toshiba transistor inverter ESP130. It may not sound like the one in the video though. Make sure to check the input and output voltage. Also keep in mind some models are single phase input and others are three phase input.
@@yourgeekoftheweek wow thanks
Actually oldest metro trains in Helsinki Finland has still one of the oldest VVVF-inverter there is. Model is from 1977
th-cam.com/video/pNezFpOrR-M/w-d-xo.html
Now add gto and you get a taurus system. Ya know, the locomotive from siemens' Eurosprinter line.
Using GTO modules would require a complete change in driver circuitry to use since this inverter uses power transistors. Actually, the type of semiconductor switch does not affect the sound at all. It is all comes down to programming. The reason why most inverters with GTO inverters sound like they do is because they cannot run a high frequencies.
@@yourgeekoftheweek aaah, thanks for the data!
I want to buy this.
It is going to be difficult to find. I have yet to see any listings show up online.
Este efecto de sonido lo tiene la línea urquiza acá en Argentina fijame si me entendiste
Claro es debido a que los trenes del urquiza están equipados con componentes marca Toshiba
@@Mileswolf2003 ya se quería que el creador del video sepa pero igual gracias
La tecnología de los viejos toshiba no tiene nada que ver con la del video, usan clásicos motores de corriente continua y seguramente controlados mediante resistencias, mientras que lo del video muestra un motor de corriente alterna trifásica controlado mediante un inversor de voltaje variable - frecuencia variable, tecnología que ya incorpora automatismos como microprocesadores y electrónica compleja, por ponerte un ejemplo el subte serie 100, usan inversores con tiristores GTO de la francesa Alstom.
En resumen los clásicos y venerables toshibas no tienen nada de electrónica, son pura mecánica dura y simple con muchísimos cables y relés
@@KuMoHaVVVFa bueno gracias por la informacion
Sí, sé un poco de español.
subway trains sound like this in asia
🤩
恭喜，你找到了一則中文留言
an electric motor that downshifts..😅
The 'downshift' is the inverter changing the rate of pulsing.
Make it Jubilee Line tone
R211 and R110A mix
The R211 uses asynchronous PWM when it starts which has a constant tone but as it speeds up it switches to synchronous PWM which sort of sounds like gear changing. This inverter only uses synchronous PWM.
@@yourgeekoftheweek yes i know but it does sound kinda like alstom optonix
@@reblesservers Got it. It does a little bit.
Your scope wasn’t triggered properly.
Lol I know. I can do a retake sometime.
this is certainly not the first VVVF, there were prototype locomotives in the 60's and I imagine that there were already realizations in test bench even older than that
Probably but I think this was one of the first commercially available ones.
@@yourgeekoftheweek it would be necessary to know from when this inverter was marketed 👀
for comparison the first production locomotive to be equipped with a vvvf converter dates from 1976
@@nooxis2643 I have tried to find some information on the model I have however I couldn't find any sort of manual specific to this model. The best I know is that it was made before 1984 since it uses the old Toshiba logo which was changed in 1984.
@@yourgeekoftheweek Nope, the world's first VVVF train was the Helsinki Metro M100 (built 1977-1984), which uses Strömberg SCRS-VVVF.
@@TheSearleFamily123 uuh... no, one of the very first three-phase realization that I know dates from 1965 by Brush Traction on the diesel locomotive named class 10800 "Hawk"
TOSVERTじゃないからまだまだだな
これでTOSVERT400とかなら完璧
Barrows Hill
ASMR
Sound like a subway
homemade class 465
Class 323
Sounds like a train
Modern trains use exactly this kind of inverter.
Actually this video is better :)
th-cam.com/video/e3QwhuecbC4/w-d-xo.html
F1 car on a scalextric scale.
Absolutely awful
Why?