Kerbal Space Program - Building A Shuttle Clone In 30 Minutes
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Designing something that looks and flies like the Space Shuttle is very hard given the stock parts in KSP, many people make the mistake of not aligning engines through the center of mass, and not accommodating the change in location of the center of mass as fuel is burned. The real space shuttle used engines with a 20 degree gimbal range to account for this, and there are mods that support this. I'll take a look at the existing shuttle mods in another video.
Asymmetric thrust should be the bane of the vast majority of scifi spaceships. i.e. what happens when artists don't know basic physics.
Yeah, honestly the Enterprise would instantly spin itself to pieces along firing the warp drive.
@@harrymack3565 eh, more like if it fired its sublight thrusters, which are also gravely off-center from the center of mass.
The warp nacelles don't exactly produce thrust, so that can be handwaved away at least.
@@Gabdube That's a good point, I suppose given that we never really see an engine plume the sub-light thrusters could be angled up in the fuselage to balance it, not the most practical but still, i guess it makes more sense then nothing at all.
@@harrymack3565 it's not angled. Star Trek canon showed straight, off-center engine plumes for Constellation-class ships in some occasions, just AFAIK not in the original Series. They really do off-center thrust, and no Star trek designer ever thought appropriate to retcon or change this. I mean, it's not like Star trek ever cared about science, so it's unfair to expect it to care about engineering.
I like the spinning booster in the background at 12:18.
Lol
same xd
12:18 Loving that SRB in the background.
12:00 I love how that SRB is doing donuts in the air.
"How hard could rocket science be right?"
That was the day I laughed so hard I subscribed.
Why dont you just stick 2 shuttles on the fuel tank: problem solved
Because people don't want 2 shuttles. And it wouldn't be the NASA way. At least that is why I think people don't want 2 shuttles.
Genius!
so... 2 rockets/tanks on the shuttle
or 2 tanks on a shuttle!
Will Snow That is a kerbal solution if I've ever heard one
But really this video is all about how amazing that plane was against all odds! Great video Scott!
Funny thing is despite all the disasters I landed after every one. (cut them out to keep it short)
5PIDER_ .
Gravity. It's the law
Levi Johansen physics. not even once
Screw gravity *_floats away_*
Vita no a law, laws are made to be broken
Thank Scott, this video helped me make my "Space Race" mock up movie for History class
I put a skipper engine on the bottom of the external tank, then just adjust the thrust limiter on the skipper to keep my pitch adjustment within the boundaries as the fuel burns off and the CG shifts.
Had forgotten about this tutorial...very useful, now that i´m playing science mode
3:30 the wing was inside the thing that holds it, that's why it blew up...
12:18 lol the rocket in the background
the new rocket engines make this so much easier! thanks ksp!
That sped up version of KSP ost is sooo awesome creepy...
The space shuttle, besides being the most expensive spaceplane indeed, was a very good adventure and an interesting way of studying the possibilities of SSTO in the future as it gives very valuable data on the case.
SSTO is the future by its efficient fuel cost and reusability not to mention the fast deployment time(which is a part of reusability bonuses you might say :p), the only challange I foresee is: will it be able to carry as much cargo/crew as the space shuttle and if yes how will they increase the actual capacity for it.
In any case, the first man to reach orbit in a SSTO capable plane will earn his place among the legends.
Whoever pilots Skylon will be a very lucky person then
Will Snow that computer chip sure will be lucky.
the space shuttle isn't an SSTO, good point though! :D
Rob Lamb he never said it was he actually indirectly says it isnt. "the first man to reach orbit in a SSTO capable plane will earn his place among the legends."
you're right.
I was just trying to build my own space shuttle as it happens Scott, now I can steal your tips and designs, thanks! :D
I made my own version of an Mk2 space shuttle (obviously thanks to this video). I spent maybe 2 hours, in part because I wanted to make it stable without SAS and I wanted to add more to the space shuttle and make it very flying-friendly. Thank you so much for this tutorial. The lesson about the whole balancing of the center of mass to thrust really saved me some time!
9:13 kerbals doing donuts on the runway awesome!!!!!!
I DEMAND HORIZONTAL LAUNCH OF A SPACE PLANE CLEARLY INTENDED FOR VERTICAL LAUNCH. because losing is fun.
Sounds fun
@@scottmanley Please do that!
dayum that little truck drifting in the background at 9:12-9:20
I find this games terribly complex and time consuming, so I can't believe I just saw your entire video. Great game, awesome narration. Keep up the good work!
Scott, I must point out something about your physics commentaries. Your channel is one of the few (if not the only one) that takes into accounts what the physics engine of a game actually mimics from the actual physics on reality. Pointing things such as torque and center of mass, considering the delta V of a vessel, all of that are vary nice things to see in a channel. Keep up the good work and every once in a while get the most specific you can.
Its cool to see your contribution to the stock shuttle creating community. The FAR version that you made in your Interstellar series, out of B9 and KW parts mostly, was a fantastic craft and I based my own design on it.
Those few videos you did focusing on that shuttle really taught me the essentials and fundamentals, alot more clearer than many TH-camrs manage. I also love that you did not rely on specialised gimbaling engines or fuselage models etc that so many content creators do. Modded parts yes, but nothing beyond stock functionality.
I've started my career game anew for 0.25 and have updated my shuttle to match the new features and options of the current B9 and KW, it's quite a beast! I am infact thinking of making a larger one, basing it on the HL and 5m parts, I really wanna be able to use it to help create space stations beyond some small tanks and life support supplies.
If you intend on doing a "proper" video in the future could I request that you make a craft using the larger parts as a base, that have the ability for station construction. Would be fantastic to see your take on a "real" shuttle. :)
Hi, any chance of sharing your shuttle? I have build many shuttles in the past (love it) and got some videos on that too. I think my latest is almost perfect but I am always open to learn new stuff! Feel free to criticise mine ;-P I am also really looking forward to the new Mk3 parts we get for christmans :-)
KerbalEssences
I can indeed do that! I'll strip out some non essentials from the cargo bay (alot are mod pieces, again "created" ones rather than pre-made models, such as my "KerbalArm" and docking adaptor) and will PM you sometime over the next couple of days.
I'll include a list of mods required for the basic structure, and leave filling up the hold to you, and will add how I manage to fly the thing. It's not ultra fantastic, but it gave me hours of fun designing the thing, and it has had some use!
As stated I may start work on a larger version, if Jeb and the crew are brave enough to test it!
I wish the dev can make us the standalone version of the SSME instead of the RS25x4 fuel tank-engine combo, that would release a lots of design freedom.
21:02 that music starteld me xD
wow. i had tried to make a space shuttle in KSP, but had put probably only about 1% of the thought into it compared to what you are. there is so much more to this game and so much to rocket science and physics that this game teaches, and i absolutely love it. in fact, today i made it to minmus for the very first time. i had only done the mun twice before, and my first attempt took me probably about 12 hours and countless tries. but somehow i made it to the mun my first try on my second run, and minmus on my first try as well.
During the second launch part of the docking clamps were inside the wings in the back of the shuttle, thus causing them to get torn off upon launch
Nice. As a console player, I treat your videos like gold. So informative. I'm building a space plane since I kinda stranded some brave kerbal in a orbit around kerbin while trying to get to the mun. Hope this will rescue them .
Wish I'd seen this a year ago. I built a design that worked without the powered external tank or the torque modules. Used a mk2 4 engine adaptor with offset main engines with their vector aligned with the launch center of gravity, then added a small side-mounted engine on each side aligned with the center of gravity without external tank or boosters. At launch, the main engines and the orbital maneuvering engines initially fire at full throttle, resulting in a vertical launch, then I back them off to allow the boosters to push the ship over inverted into a gravity turn. Once the boosters are spent, I throttle up the mains fully, but by this time, the now offset thrust from the mains is countered by the mass of the fuel tank and the lift from the wings. Once into space, I cut loose the external tank, deactivate my main engines and operate using the small orbital maneuvering engines only. Voila. Took hours of trial and error to learn the hard way why the real shuttle does it the way it does, but it was fun and informative. And now I have a mk2 shuttle to ferry space station pieces with.
Always love your videos, subject matter and your voice. You're live-streams are hilarious as well :)
I've always been a fan of TheWinterOwl's shuttle designs. He's very detailed and uses a lot of mods, but they're all designed towards making pretty accurate representations. (And yes, shuttles are seriously challenging designs!)
Loving the space based series... Thanks
Scott, been awhile since I've commented on one of your videos. Very informative and awesome as always. I learned a lot of cool new concepts I wasn't even aware of, like the gimbal rockets adjusted to align with the center of mass. Keep it up!
Love your videos and your narration. So fun.
Hm, just thought of a great mod idea.
Maybe its already out there.
Wouldn't multiply thrustcontrolbars help greatly with planes like this.
You already can alter the thrust of one of your engines at the same time,
but i mean something like a group of engines, that you define in the assembly building
and then controls the thrust of all the engines at the same time.
There could even be a new bar in the interface next to the standard bar
and you could switch between them with a key.
Exists, or it did.
Not sure the name though...
not sure if this is the kind of thing your looking for but, scott did use a mod that worked like real plane engines do with a lever for each of the engines thrust, but sadly i cant find the video of it
Didnt you notice those release clamps were hitting your wings!
Xone he put them there
Holy balls, I asked that you did a shuttle a few videos ago and you did it! Thanks for the amazing videos!
This inspired me to launch my own shuttle the same size. Same basic design, but with the FAR mod. Used those same SRB's, the 650kn engine under the orange tank, staged when the SRB's run out, and the aerospike engines on the shuttle. It works if you can modulate the thrust on the way up to compensate for the change in CoM. I actually started adding weight to it to see how much it can carry up on a mission, and ended at around whatever 1200 liquid fuel and oxidizer weighs.
Ah... After watching the other 17 minutes of the video, I see we pretty much ended up with the same design. I didn't have to use the reaction wheels, but maybe I spent a few more minutes on mine.
Hey scott Manley if you want to adjust the thrust "Pre flight" you can always right click on the solid booster, and limet the thrust impact
Personally, I'd connect the solid boosters to the fuel tank via a single strut each. I've found that one strut is strong enough to hold them in place (to stop wobbles, and to keep them pointed in the right direction), and weak enough to break when the decouplers blow.
Ive found that the Energia Rocket design works really well for me. massive tall talk in the center with quad engines, and 4 extra large liquid fuel boosters on the sides. It thrusts so much that even the slight weight imbalance means nothing.
It's alot easier in 1.0.5, with the vectoring engine. There are now also three stock craft replicating the shuttle.
+BNSF1995 The Vector engine is amazin'.
+BNSF1995 Also just use Mk3 parts it works super well, compare Mk3 Cockpit with shuttle cockpit almost perfect match
The vector is just Kerbalized Space Shuttle Main Engines. It has identical vectoring range (10 degrees in each side) and it looks just like SSME.
You see Scott, the reason this didn't work out so well is that this shuttle looks too much like an actual plane, not a flying brick as it is supposed to. A "spatial bus" as it is named here in Brazil.
Given more than half an hour to build this I could probably do better.
You sure can, I believe in you :)
In Argentina we used to call it Space-Cab lol
Look up the "flying bread-bin" approach that was considered. That made a brick look streamlined.
lol, that's truth... they did come up with some ingeniously weird designs back then :)
i did the same shuttle design with aerospike engine at the top of the shuttle to limit the pitch coming down
and it works just great!
I used the "Tiberdyne" space shuttle mod for a while, which was a legit recreation of the Space Shuttle with appropriate RCS-based engines and the works. Just like a stock one, however, it was very hard to keep it properly balanced, and ultimately it was a big time consumer with little reward. One thing that is a huge buzz kill for me on the stock parts is the limited space in the cargo bays. They are RIDICULOUSLY small, especially if you want to build a space station using parts like the science lab and things! I've given up on space planes and space shuttles for now, especially in stock, there just isn't enough parts yet that are big enough.
There is the Space Shuttle Engines Mod that really helps with FAR. They have some extreme Gimbaling that solves the thrust-through-COM problem very well. From there is just sensible wing design for the shuttle really.
Scott Manley, have you considered the idea of a winged orbiter launched piggyback on a winged booster?
the booster carries it's payload up using a ballistic arc trajectory (booster does not enter orbit) and releases the orbiter at top-of-climb, then re-enters, ignites onboard sustainer turbojet, and flies back to the hangar to be refurbished for the next launch. meanwhile, the orbiter circularizes, and enters orbit!
the advantages are that each "stage" can be highly specialized for it's intended flight regime, the booster uses engines optimized for max thrust in atmosphere, while all the orbiter needs is a tiny OMS engine, making the orbiter much smaller and lighter. this is the system portrayed by Arthur C. Clarke in his book 2001: Space Oddysey. (the Orion Spaceplane System)
when (if) I get around to it I might try this out in my copy of KSP. don't hold your breath, though, I currently hold the title of World's Champion Procrastinator. if you (or anyone else want to try this out, go for it.
2:15 Solid rocket boosters are made with a hole through the solid rocket fuel. It's designed to burn from the inside out.
+Eric Taylor Its YOU.
Slyguy threeonetwonine
What are you talking about?
+Eric Taylor he was on meth brah
Shadow zone: building space shuttle in 10 minutes scott Manley: building mini shuttle in 30 minutes
On the actual shuttle, the shuttle's inline engines were slightly angled away from the main tank, along with 2 smaller radial engines pointing straight.
It also had 3 inline engines rather than just 2
+Brett Lair (Band Geek) you are a rocket scientist?
+Harith Iqbal I think this knowledge can be gained by looking at a single picture of the space shuttle :D
How come this comment is so short but it gets 2 LIKES!?
Harith Iqbal No but i studied rockets... The space shuttle was equipped with 2 solid rocket boosters on either side, a main fuel tank attached to the shuttle, and the shuttle had 3 l/o engines that were the main force after boosters were ejected, the shuttle also had 2 vectoring engines on either side of the tail fin
I did almost all of this once like a no brainer (it was my first genuine try at a space shuttle), and I never watched this video until now. Oddly enough, my space shuttle configuration was about twice larger and functioned perfectly until the boosters were jettisoned, then, due to not knowing a valuable piece of advice about performing the roll manuever, my spacecraft pitched downwards like a beast and ultimately crashed. I was to come back to it later to review designs and plans, but due to mysterious reasons, the saves, along with all of the rocket plans got deleted, so that's a bummer...I'll have to start again...
I think that, if you rotate the shuttle the toward the ocean on the runway, the turn-over is actually helpful
Put a very large radially-mounted engine between the main engine and the shuttle and adjust the thrust of this, and the main engine, with the thrust limiter as you launch. It's the only way I've managed to do it, and it is difficult, but it works.
Your crew are impossibly lucky!
The wings kept hitting the launch clamps! :D
Falls from atmosphere and survives with no parachute = Scott Manley
Nice XKCD reference there at 11:45
Yes Scott, it is exceptionally hard to do. I took a couple of days of free time to get an accurate-ish representation of it working, and they are great for taking probes to space! But, you did it in half an hour :/ Kudos.
I'd really love it if you gave this concept another go with all the new stuff in the retail version
You should use your throttle to keep the whole assemble flying straight. Because the SRB cannot be throttled, only the SSMEs are controlled by the throttle gauge; and by controlling the throttle you can keep the rotation torque low enough that the fins can stabilize.
3:13 the problem was not the boosters, it was the fact that the clamps connected to the boosters clipped to the wings. This caused them to explode, making everything go to s**t.
I used robotics to be able to adjust the engines angle enough. Not stock KSP though, but also not just using a pre-made shuttle mod. Took quite a bit of work to get it to do what I wanted, but it worked really good once done.
"...those are going to keep thrusting."
And eventually, they're going to deploy their payloads...
I didn't know that about the Space Shuttle's thrusters, woulda been nice to know when I made mine. mine took like a month of trial and error to finally get an empty one to make it to orbit, also had to look up how the actual shuttle launches and flew mine upside down to succeed. It's only mission to was to recover the crew of a bugged station that was being decommissioned... so many things went wrong with that mission yet somehow that shuttle still made it home marking the first successful aircraft landing in my KSP career. It also had off center thrust (even as just the shuttle) since I picked "cool factor" over logic. lol
P.S. I too had to use the Braun style launcher and a lot of thrust limiter management to succeed.
12:18 look at the back rockets XD
Honestly the hardest problem with shuttles for me with FAR is getting a clean booster separation. I usually get SRB sep in the high-teens (18-19) kms, which is still low enough for the boosters to veer off wildly upon separation as they are prone to do in FAR. Even with half a dozen separation boosters, its usually only enough to get them to spread out wide enough long enough for the shuttle to get away, before inevitably colliding together again.
I'm about the build a shuttle again using the combination separation rocket/radial decouplers featured in the new SpaceY parts pack, maybe those will help.
I really like informative and educational videos from you! Please tell more. I suggest salut7 case - where they had to dock to a dead and rotating station and repair it.
Scott, you weren't overcompensating as much as you think, the towers were clipping with the wings on liftoff and that tends to mess up launches in many ways.(I've broken the world a couple times with those things)
D-Didn't the Space Shuttle actually ascend pitched back?
Ikr
When I designed mine, I took a page out of the Buran's book by putting my main thrusters on the tank so I don't have to lug that weight around.
Hey Scott Manley, love the channel! I too have been playing with making shuttle like spaceplanes and have created a design that launches pretty well. But I do use mechjeb, as I use it to create a pretty precise launch profile. I'm pretty sure the NASA shuttle launches were all programmed in, so I don't see it as cheating. The main problem like you say is the asymmetry with the boosters and the orange tank. With the boosters in KSP, they are a fixed thrust, so as it burns the thrust to weight changes. I know Bob Fitch has created a way to mimic the real life boosters where they are not throttle-able but do change their thrust for the amount to fuel left, which means you can drop the TTW as you go up. For the offset of the orange tank, I have 2 sets sets of engines, yes it makes it heavier, but mimics the real shuttle as it doesn't use the main engines once it drops that main tank. So I have 1 set with large gimble and offset, then switch over to thrust through the shuttle only CoM. I will post up a vid when I get the chance.
Cheers
Azza
It looked so easy when you did it on the video until I tried it myself! Several hours into the game and I still can't seem to get it stable in the midst of leaving the atmosphere! Anyway, great video!!!
N.A.S.A: Network of Awesome Space Adventures.
"How hard can rocket science be anyway? Well, lets find out!" *Ebay ad pops up* Yeah...
There was also a similar (and similiarly crazy) idea of launching a rocket off the back of a jumbo jet. I tried creating something similar in ksp but had trouble flying the plane back safely when it lost its massive payload, it just wanted to do back flips since it needed some massive lift
Wasn't that with the space shuttle too?
Holiday Miner Only for test flights.
Not only did the space shuttle have a large range of gimbal on the main engines but the SRBs could be gimballed. Not nearly as wide a range though. Thrusting through the center of mass was not an uncommon practice before the shuttle though. The Saturn V, for example, would gimbal the outer four engines through the CoM in case one of those engines failed, the whole spacecraft (hopefully) would not be doomed.
The test at 12 minutes actually Looked awesome, like a ship out of starwars, just didnt fly so well. Alot of flexing scott you should add a couple struts. it might help with the start.
Scott you need to check out the winter owls videos on Space shuttle design
Adding a third booster opposite of the craft works wonders
Wonderful.:) The 2.4 km magical dissapearance of parts, however, is the single most vexing problem in a n otherwise wonderful game.
The new vector engines are basically the space shuttle engines :)
The shuttle pitches up, not down as is ascends into orbit FYI. Orbit is achieved inverted to the earth from the passengers perspective.
Infernal Robotics = Adjustable directional thrusters on the space plane
11:45 Was that a reference to xkcd's "U.S. Space Team's Up-Goer Five?" I think it was!
SRBs flying around parachutes @ 12:18
As stated in a documentary a few years ago, "the space shuttle was a good idea, poorly executed". I look forward to the day when scramjets and other similar hardware becomes man-rated and we can build true, SSTO type spacecraft.
Great video
Scott, here's something I found comes in handy with shuttles. Use IR hinges to mount the rear engines. Gives the gimble range needed for a shuttle, yet also can act as a trim. When well balanced, you can basically just pitch the engines and fly with the trim.
www.thekerbalspacecenter.com/2014/10/karbonite-minmus-and-new-shuttles-oh-my.html
I made a shuttle using that design here. The S2 > 2.5m adapter plate hides the hinges. They actually perform quite well under thrust.
When you were shifting the solid rockets forward, the supports were cutting the wings apart on liftoff. Had you moved the supports on the solid rockets, the rocket probably would have been fine, or at least fared a lot better.
I have to say that it's pretty tough to make a space shuttle look alike in KSP without putting an engine underneath the fuel tank to balance things out. I've only ever come up with one successful design which virtually copies the system that the space shuttle uses and that was through using action groups on Mk.55 radial mount engines to balance the craft while in it's second stage. It's pretty much just a game of balancing everything at awkward angles.
Look, brilliant!
I use 4 rocket boosters placed diagonally at my space shuttle but it cost over 1 million (I used 3 KS-25 as the shuttle engine to circularize orbit,the boosters use Mammoth engine,and I need to attach parachutes on my space shuttle because I can't land planes)
If there is anything i want in .90 is some HIGH GIMBAL ENGINES so we don't have to pain our way to making one of these things. Shuttles were suppose to be the future, just as much as SSTO's are our future. Its about time they got some focus.
Energia-Buran type rocket seems far more easy to make and more efficient, though probably a bit more expensive since you lose more main engines.
18:52 i heard "Hopefully I will continue to become speed"
Your launch wasn't failing because the solid boosters were too far back, it was failing because the launch stabilizer arms were placed in such a way that they were hitting your wings. It shocked me that you didn't notice that.
The first crash was not because of where you put the SRBs, the pylons were intersecting the wings, which is why they got ripped off. I tried a similar design and it flew pretty well.
Your shuttle is a lot more like the soyuz shuttle than the standard space shuttle because of mechanics of how you designed it, with the rockets on the fuel tank and without the monopropellant thrusters by the tail
This is just Challenger all over again.