Wow. simple *doubt* is a "sin." Then again, so is working on Saturday… That one is worthy of death according to a certain obviously fictional, obviously evil god.
She's the first religious caller I've ever felt protective of. Ginny seems like a sweetheart, like someone who has been intimidated all her life by "authority" and is terrified of doing anything that could be defined as "defying" them. Or it. I think she could be (very) gently encouraged to question what she believes, to seek out reasons rather than justifications and simply accepting "the pastor said" or "it's in the bible".
Dont count on it. People like this are sweet until they actually DO question things or get backed into a corner. I also used to hear a lot of horrible things said in that "sweet voice".
“I’m not trying to convince you” says the person who believes if they don’t convince you you will end up burning in hell for all eternity. So thoughtful.
EDIT: Not sure why they are pushing videos from well over a year ago like they're new. . . Either way my criticism of the asshole stands. After what Godless Iowan did when he rebranded himself as Objectively Subjective and joined in EssenceOfThoughts harrassment campaign against Rachel Oates? I don't think so. He should not be allowed to crawl back to being the Godless Iowan and pretend it never happened. They literally harrassed someone until they hurt themselves and had to get medical treatment. Where in the FUCK is the accountability? The Godless Iowan, MissusSnarky, EssenceOfThought. . . All of them are cowards who aren't fit for polite company. The jump from one cult to another is pretty easy isnt it Iowan?
@@Joalse EssenceOfThought is a humanist/atheist TH-camr who went off the deep end and has started their own little cult of true believers. They were the ones who caused another TH-camr named Rachel Oates to harm herself about two months ago by repeatedly harrassing her. He started off on the side of the very non-literal angels but has become dangerously fundamentalist on a particular issue and anyone who disagrees, no matter how slightly, is a "violent transphobe" and harrassed relentlessly.
@truth wanted I did find it a bit odd that GI didn’t immediately speak to or recall James 1. This passage that Jenny referenced, is definitely a verse that is popular in “indoctrination” and speaking/preaching specifically to doubting. It’s often used to “scare people in” (at least it did for me in some capacity when I was a Christian). I’m guessing theists will used that “blunder” of not knowing that scripture as, “you weren’t really a pastor,/Christian, otherwise you would have known that...”
Pentecostals, baptists, right wing evangelicals, etc. don't want their members questioning anything the pastor says. Questioning leads to critical thinking which could lead to a loss of faith.
When I would ask my Pastor Q's... his initial reaction was a mean look on his face...quickly replaced by a smile and an insufficient answer... that response had me thinking even more !! These acts sealed my belief that there is no god...a decision that has been justified over and over again. Falwell was a con, like Smith, as is Dollar. I now try and help disillusioned people find their way out...planting seeds for independent thought through reason and logic!!
@@masterofreality5682 I wonder if there is a number of conmen that can be reached to where people would finally get it. Probably not as they would just excuse it as some “we are all sinners” type thing. But there sure are a lot of grifters out there that use Jesus to lure in their victims.
The closing point Godless Iowan made really got me thinking: Imagine someone promises you a million dollars, but you will only get it if you do something specific within a certain time frame. You figure you don't have too much to lose, so you go and do that. But then it turns out that something came up, and you have to do another thing before receiving the reward. At that point you are already invested, and doubting the initial promise becomes harder and harder as you don't want to admit to yourself that you have fallen for an obvious lie (just look into internet scams, they get people hooked by making it more and more painful to think they might have been duped). So that is actually a very good example of another area in life where people are "afraid" to doubt, and as it turns out, doubt would be the healthiest way to go!
That's called the sunk costs fallacy... "I'm in this far, I may as well see it through." And it's so hard to watch someone in it. As Twain said, it's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they've been fooled. Sad.
Jenny sounds like the sweetest sweetheart ever. Great of you guys that you approached her so gently instead of coming in like a wrecking ball, crashing into her irrational belief system... (not that I accuse you of doing so at other times, don't get me wrong) I don't know if people like her could ever be saved from "being saved" and face reality. It would take away her whole community, family, everything... But it's sad... *sigh*
Thinking critically is a sin, just accept everything we tell you without question. Yeah, sounds trustworthy. See, the cool thing about true things is that no matter how much you doubt them, no matter how much you investigate to get to the bottom of things, they're still true. If a position is true, it has nothing to fear from questioning.
I had no idea that was such a thing! I didn't learn much about Pentecostal churches, and I don't know that I ever met any Pentecostals. I'm glad you're free, but wow that's heartbreaking.
Why is indoctrination into a parents religious belief not considered child abuse? This poor woman was never given an opportunity to formulate her own beliefs and think for herself.
My sisters and I were also indoctrinated into our parents' religion - and grandparents and great grandparents and ... - but I found my way out. I'm guessing her brother has managed to escape also. It isn't easy, and it requires being open to finding out what you've believed all your life isn't true, but it can bring a wonderful sense of freedom, when you're no longer chained down by false beliefs.
@@greeneyedlady5580 My biggest take away from extricating myself from my childhood religious indoctrination is how absolutely absurd it all is. The very notion that we could EVER know the will of god(s) is the height of arrogance in and of itself, but the biblical stories they push as reality adds ignorance to the mix. (Their god-myth is ill-conceived and more than a little preposterous.) I am of the age where a religious comfort blanket would be nice, but I really need one more plausible than what man has come up with so far. And let us make no mistake, all religious doctrines come from man.
@@PeBoVision I agree with you, on all counts. The whole Christian religion is absolutely ridiculous. They took a (supposed) Jewish rabbi, turned him into a 3 in 1 deity, and - even though he never reminded his Judaism - formed a new religion around him, which they then used to demonize and persecute the Jews. The whole thing is patently absurd.
I was taught that doubts invite in the devil. It’s a devious trick to instill the fear of rational thinking. I remember feeling guilty simply for wanting to understand the Bible & my religion better. Teaching followers to not trust their own thoughts does a terrible disservice.
One thing I notice is that when the caller is asked directly why she believes something, her first response is, "Thats what I believe. Thats what I was taught." There is no moment when she claims anything other than unquestioning acceptance. She has thought about some of these things after her acceptance, but her reason for belief is never the first response.
You can tell that she truly believes and fears the unknown....and has never, ever, ever, ever questioned what she believed. Never. You can tell that Objectively Dan was purposely handled Jennie delicately. Saying one wrong sentence would terrify her.
Recently talked to my friend about when we learned Santa wasn't real, and I realized I was being willfully ignorant because I liked believing it. I "knew" he wasn't real about 2 years before I truly accepted it. It seems some people aren't interested in the truth and reality, because the religious indoctrination is damn near immaculate. The comforting lie. It's hard to let go of this stuff, I felt it was such a security blanket. As a result, thinking about death and the universe now, as an atheist, has frequently given me the most incredible damn anxiety attacks. I'm an emotional person, and it's very nerve-wracking, but I wouldn't trade it for going back to my blind belief. I mean, I don't think I'd have the ability to if I wanted. Like Matt, I don't think I can choose my beliefs. But I still think accepting that I don't know has helped me to becoming a lot more accepting of difficult facts.
They don't laugh because the woman is an example of child abuse. She has the mentality of a child and fear to death to even starting to question. They show basic human decency.
Such a sweet lady. Such a crime that her religion has convinced her that critical thinking is something to fear. Great conversation, good job being kind and gentle.
THIS is how trump became president. This woman, and her lack of understanding of the world, is the harm of religion. and the harm that she does as a result... THAT is the only thing i could call a sin.
Just an amazing disconnection: "With men things are impossible but with God everything is possible" says the human communicating instantaneously at a distance, when gods use human books in deprecated languages and human interpreters, human missionaries, human preachers...
Well, i mean i can't do it... so if gift meant ability, sure. I mean MOST people sound like little kids making sounds when they try. So i guess it takes some kind of ability.
@@terryfuldsgaming7995 Mostly in the subconscious. What I don't get is that if the believers take the Bible at its word, don't they realize that when the Holy Ghost gives the Apostles tongues it was supposedly real languages. The Apostles become able to tell travelers who don't speak the local language, Aramaic, about the Crucifixion. Tests were conducted to see if anybody in a Pentecostal church was speaking a real language from anywhere in the world. Surprise, surprise, surprise...it NEVER is!
Dan: I'm wondering, how did you come to the conclusion that body thetans are real? Delusional person: Well mainly through studying Dianetics, going to the Scientology center, listening to my auditor. I can't imagine having a double standard so massive and not seeing it.
"I am not trying to convince you" The only people who say this are people who have little iidea of why the believe something and they are on some level aware of this fact.
Loved this conversation Dan. I watch all 3 ACA shows, and I by far prefer yours due to the calm nature of your conversation (Matt is great too though, don't get me wrong). I much prefer the religious conversations as opposed to anything else, but that's just me :). Also - I can really feel the same SE style as Anthony Magnabosco here. I'm sure you've picked up a few things from talking with him.
Antonius Grave They should have unpacked that comment a little bit more. The fact that she’s convinced she’s believed since she was born makes her childhood indoctrination apparent. I would have pointed out that she could have believed “at birth” and must have begun to believe at some later point in life. They should be trying to home in on that event. If she realizes that she can’t remember when she first believed, then maybe she will come to realize that she never really thought about her beliefs, and just accepted what she was told her whole life.
Jenny seems like a really nice person. Unfortunately she represents billions of others around the world who are indoctrinated with this irrational thinking.
I wonder what she would say if asked whether learning things is a sin, and if not how that would be different from considering the sort of questions they are asking.
I don't know how people don't think is suspicious that someone would create you just to control your whole life all the way to your thoughts. Even worst, makes you fear him and feel guilty of everything. Even of just existing! Since we're "sinful" to begin with because of something that we didn't do. How is that reasonable and fair coming form a supposedly benevolent god?
This is how bad it is. I was like this. My parents are like this. Nothing happens without God or the Devil. The devil must be as powerful as god cos ummmm.... he’s winning right now.
Stronger even. Satan repeatedly tricks God and ruins God's plans. But God is clearly unable to stop satan. Which obviously any 'all good' being would want to, since he is supposedly evil. Also, ask a Christian why they believe. 90% of the time they say their fear of hell. Which means they worship satan, not God.
She is an incurable sheep, in the middle of her flock and determined to follow heedlessly as long as she feels surrounded by clones of herself who make her feel warm and fuzzy as long as she lets the flock think for her, she's 100% invested in her society and is probably happier in ignorance.
When talking to theists, how do I make the conversation non-threatening when I have such strong convictions about the non-existence of the Christian god?I struggle with this a lot because I get passionate and I come across as offensive, as if I was attacking them personally when that's not what I want to accomplish. I want to spark doubt, interest in knowing and not just believing without any basis in reality. How can I become non-confrontational?
Watch some videos on street epistemology. The technique is not easy to learn but it's, basically, asking questions. The hosts on this clip were doing it. You can see that when they made some progress they stopped. She seemed kinda disappointed, I think because she found it to be an interesting conversation. She may think about it more. That's all you can do in one conversation. These are deep rooted beliefs. You can't break through them in a few minutes.
@Larry Moens not all of them, for sure. There’s a lot of obvious frustration and much hanging up on callers. Even a few “shut the fuck up”s. Personally, I get a bit pissed off at those that come off as trolls, obvious bigots, or those that simply don’t take part in actual conversation and just want to “prove me wrong”. As I’m sure theists feel the same. But those that I can actually have a conversation with have been very fulfilling and insightful. With those, I ask a lot of questions. But I also was a christian for decades, so I generally know what they’ll answer. I also am extremely familiar with the bible, so I can spot a cherry-pick, an out-of-context, or inadequate interpretation easily. It can be interesting to see a change happen in a conversation where I’ve become the bible teacher. They might end the conversation quickly, but respectfully, or even say I gave them insight. That’s kind of rewarding. But, then again, so is calling a moron a moron. 😉
Street epistemology is the best way to approach believers. Watch some TH-cam videos showing examples of it. It's not too hard to pick up. You have to be patient though. I've ended up in an hour long conversation using this technique.
I never believed in modern day speaking in tongues, but man I can relate to the “doubting is a sin” and “I’m afraid talking about these things as a sin”. I hope she finds her way out of it. Leaving religion was the most liberating thing in my life and made me a much better person and less judging. I wish they kept her on
Sad is the right word. This poor, non thinking woman is part of a plague that will undoubtedly doom the worlds population to slavery and worse. If grown people can't learn to apply critical thinking and stop believing in Dark Age plagiarized myths as a guide to life we're surely doomed quicker than we know.
They are doing her no favor going so easy on her. They need to introduce her to REALITY instead of letting her make nonsense up to wiggle out of their questions.
“I learned from reading my bible, going to church and talking to my pastor”... a bit like only watching Fox News and Trump tweets to get your political news.
Typically when a person tells me they believe in God or Christianity or any other faith, I believe that they are lying to me and just putting up a front. I know that is Prejudiced and I know that is not fair, it most likely comes from the fact that I never was raised to believe in a god. Jenny might be the first person calling into this show that I believe is being honest and truthful. She also has the most logical explanation that I've ever heard on any of these atheist call-in shows which is, I don't really have a reason I just believe. I got to give her credit for honesty.
What a horrible religion that makes people so afraid of even momentarily THINKING the wrong thing! I think it's child abuse to indoctrinate your children into such beliefs. At the beginning of the call, when she questined if they were going to make her "sin", i knew that she was too far gone. I don't know if there's any way she can find her way out of the cult and into reality, but if she can, it will probably take decades.
In extreme Christian culture parents teach that doubt is sin, in extreme Islam cultures parents teach that leaving Islam is punishable by death. Mind be one of the reasons why people leave Islam less frequently than Christianity.
Of course she is. She's been indoctrinated that if she thinks wrong her loving forgiving god will send her to be tortured forever. It's a cult mind control technique.
Seeing a lot of these ambush calls lately. Be nice if ACA shows could call out the people who put these folks up to this more than going in on them. Quite the muddled conversation when the caller is clueless about what is going on and why.
I thought they explained it pretty well right off the bat. After a minute or two she was aware and willing. They were pretty “kid gloves” with her the whole time.
you cut her off just when she was going to cite THE passge you asked for, because you were going to take other calls, then you discuss why you're right. what crap. until then it was good. you screwed up big time. go back and listen. disappointed agnostic atheist in france.
This poor woman believes thinking is evil. That's a human tragedy.
@@kentonbaird1723 figuratively and literally.
Wow. simple *doubt* is a "sin."
Then again, so is working on Saturday… That one is worthy of death according to a certain obviously fictional, obviously evil god.
Wow, I am heartbroken for her that she believes this so deeply. What must her childhood have been like? In my mind it is child abuse.
@@martingarreis Using your brain is double-plus ungood.
nope , that's about 2000+ years of HUMAN HISTORY , that's what THAT is ...
religion made these people just like the ZOMBIE they follow , dead inside
Heartbreaking to hear that fear in her voice. It's so abusive to turn humans to that kind of fear. You guys handled it compassionately.
Poor woman has never known anything different. Thinking is not encouraged.
"my parents always taught me that you don't question it"...
a sad statement to utter...
To be fair.. can you question evolution?
She's the first religious caller I've ever felt protective of. Ginny seems like a sweetheart, like someone who has been intimidated all her life by "authority" and is terrified of doing anything that could be defined as "defying" them. Or it.
I think she could be (very) gently encouraged to question what she believes, to seek out reasons rather than justifications and simply accepting "the pastor said" or "it's in the bible".
Dont count on it. People like this are sweet until they actually DO question things or get backed into a corner. I also used to hear a lot of horrible things said in that "sweet voice".
@@smasher.338stop tripping
Jenny, the first time anyone tells you not to question something, the very very first thing you should do is question it.
Don’t question : why not?
Did anyone else's cult alarm start going off. Doubting the cult teachings is forbidden. Hearing her breaks my heart. 💔
“I’m not trying to convince you” says the person who believes if they don’t convince you you will end up burning in hell for all eternity. So thoughtful.
Godless Iowan, a former Pentecostal, was perfect for this call.
EDIT: Not sure why they are pushing videos from well over a year ago like they're new. . . Either way my criticism of the asshole stands.
After what Godless Iowan did when he rebranded himself as Objectively Subjective and joined in EssenceOfThoughts harrassment campaign against Rachel Oates? I don't think so. He should not be allowed to crawl back to being the Godless Iowan and pretend it never happened. They literally harrassed someone until they hurt themselves and had to get medical treatment. Where in the FUCK is the accountability?
The Godless Iowan, MissusSnarky, EssenceOfThought. . . All of them are cowards who aren't fit for polite company.
The jump from one cult to another is pretty easy isnt it Iowan?
Sypher the 297th what is “essence of thoughts”?
@@Joalse EssenceOfThought is a humanist/atheist TH-camr who went off the deep end and has started their own little cult of true believers. They were the ones who caused another TH-camr named Rachel Oates to harm herself about two months ago by repeatedly harrassing her.
He started off on the side of the very non-literal angels but has become dangerously fundamentalist on a particular issue and anyone who disagrees, no matter how slightly, is a "violent transphobe" and harrassed relentlessly.
@truth wanted
I did find it a bit odd that GI didn’t immediately speak to or recall James 1. This passage that Jenny referenced, is definitely a verse that is popular in “indoctrination” and speaking/preaching specifically to doubting. It’s often used to “scare people in” (at least it did for me in some capacity when I was a Christian).
I’m guessing theists will used that “blunder” of not knowing that scripture as, “you weren’t really a pastor,/Christian, otherwise you would have known that...”
Pentecostals, baptists, right wing evangelicals, etc. don't want their members questioning anything the pastor says. Questioning leads to critical thinking which could lead to a loss of faith.
When I would ask my Pastor Q's... his initial reaction was a mean look on his face...quickly replaced by a smile and an insufficient answer... that response had me thinking even more !! These acts sealed my belief that there is no god...a decision that has been justified over and over again. Falwell was a con, like Smith, as is Dollar. I now try and help disillusioned people find their way out...planting seeds for independent thought through reason and logic!!
@@masterofreality5682 I wonder if there is a number of conmen that can be reached to where people would finally get it. Probably not as they would just excuse it as some “we are all sinners” type thing. But there sure are a lot of grifters out there that use Jesus to lure in their victims.
The closing point Godless Iowan made really got me thinking: Imagine someone promises you a million dollars, but you will only get it if you do something specific within a certain time frame. You figure you don't have too much to lose, so you go and do that. But then it turns out that something came up, and you have to do another thing before receiving the reward. At that point you are already invested, and doubting the initial promise becomes harder and harder as you don't want to admit to yourself that you have fallen for an obvious lie (just look into internet scams, they get people hooked by making it more and more painful to think they might have been duped).
So that is actually a very good example of another area in life where people are "afraid" to doubt, and as it turns out, doubt would be the healthiest way to go!
That's called the sunk costs fallacy... "I'm in this far, I may as well see it through." And it's so hard to watch someone in it. As Twain said, it's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they've been fooled. Sad.
Jenny sounds like the sweetest sweetheart ever. Great of you guys that you approached her so gently instead of coming in like a wrecking ball, crashing into her irrational belief system...
(not that I accuse you of doing so at other times, don't get me wrong)
I don't know if people like her could ever be saved from "being saved" and face reality. It would take away her whole community, family, everything... But it's sad... *sigh*
Thinking critically is a sin, just accept everything we tell you without question. Yeah, sounds trustworthy.
See, the cool thing about true things is that no matter how much you doubt them, no matter how much you investigate to get to the bottom of things, they're still true. If a position is true, it has nothing to fear from questioning.
Her first sentence, whoa. Brought me back. I grew up Pentecostal. I remember being so scared of anything outside my indoctrination.
I had no idea that was such a thing! I didn't learn much about Pentecostal churches, and I don't know that I ever met any Pentecostals.
I'm glad you're free, but wow that's heartbreaking.
Why is indoctrination into a parents religious belief not considered child abuse? This poor woman was never given an opportunity to formulate her own beliefs and think for herself.
My sisters and I were also indoctrinated into our parents' religion - and grandparents and great grandparents and ... - but I found my way out. I'm guessing her brother has managed to escape also. It isn't easy, and it requires being open to finding out what you've believed all your life isn't true, but it can bring a wonderful sense of freedom, when you're no longer chained down by false beliefs.
@@greeneyedlady5580 My biggest take away from extricating myself from my childhood religious indoctrination is how absolutely absurd it all is.
The very notion that we could EVER know the will of god(s) is the height of arrogance in and of itself, but the biblical stories they push as reality adds ignorance to the mix. (Their god-myth is ill-conceived and more than a little preposterous.)
I am of the age where a religious comfort blanket would be nice, but I really need one more plausible than what man has come up with so far. And let us make no mistake, all religious doctrines come from man.
@@PeBoVision I agree with you, on all counts. The whole Christian religion is absolutely ridiculous. They took a (supposed) Jewish rabbi, turned him into a 3 in 1 deity, and - even though he never reminded his Judaism - formed a new religion around him, which they then used to demonize and persecute the Jews. The whole thing is patently absurd.
I have ZERO doubt that when you offered her the invitation to talk more, that she sees you as Satan trying to tempt her.
Exposed to speaking in tongues at age 10, freaked me the f out. Never went back to church
I was taught that doubts invite in the devil. It’s a devious trick to instill the fear of rational thinking. I remember feeling guilty simply for wanting to understand the Bible & my religion better.
Teaching followers to not trust their own thoughts does a terrible disservice.
One thing I notice is that when the caller is asked directly why she believes something, her first response is, "Thats what I believe. Thats what I was taught." There is no moment when she claims anything other than unquestioning acceptance. She has thought about some of these things after her acceptance, but her reason for belief is never the first response.
What a poor woman, hope she gets help.
They never do
Her brother seems to be trying at least.
@@rockhead1731That isn't true, I'm guessing her brother escaped, as did many of us.
Perfect example of "too far gone"
She perfectly describes how religion creates a powerful barrier against breaking free: Guilt caused the mere thought of daring to question/doubt God.
You can tell that she truly believes and fears the unknown....and has never, ever, ever, ever questioned what she believed. Never. You can tell that Objectively Dan was purposely handled Jennie delicately. Saying one wrong sentence would terrify her.
Recently talked to my friend about when we learned Santa wasn't real, and I realized I was being willfully ignorant because I liked believing it.
I "knew" he wasn't real about 2 years before I truly accepted it.
It seems some people aren't interested in the truth and reality, because the religious indoctrination is damn near immaculate. The comforting lie.
It's hard to let go of this stuff, I felt it was such a security blanket.
As a result, thinking about death and the universe now, as an atheist, has frequently given me the most incredible damn anxiety attacks.
I'm an emotional person, and it's very nerve-wracking, but I wouldn't trade it for going back to my blind belief.
I mean, I don't think I'd have the ability to if I wanted. Like Matt, I don't think I can choose my beliefs. But I still think accepting that I don't know has helped me to becoming a lot more accepting of difficult facts.
I don't know how they don't laugh. Some of it can be frustrating but some of it is too silly to not laugh.
So we're funny to you?
They don't laugh because the woman is an example of child abuse. She has the mentality of a child and fear to death to even starting to question. They show basic human decency.
@@sonnetlyric3951
"So we're funny to you?"
- What do you mean by "we"?
No it's sad not funny
@@lynneshale7443 She is laughably stupid
Such a sweet lady. Such a crime that her religion has convinced her that critical thinking is something to fear. Great conversation, good job being kind and gentle.
THIS is how trump became president. This woman, and her lack of understanding of the world, is the harm of religion. and the harm that she does as a result... THAT is the only thing i could call a sin.
Just an amazing disconnection:
"With men things are impossible but with God everything is possible" says the human communicating instantaneously at a distance, when gods use human books in deprecated languages and human interpreters, human missionaries, human preachers...
"Speaking in Tongues is a gift"...good Talking Heads CD.
Well, i mean i can't do it... so if gift meant ability, sure. I mean MOST people sound like little kids making sounds when they try. So i guess it takes some kind of ability.
🎼 Burning down the house🎵🎶
@@terryfuldsgaming7995 Mostly in the subconscious. What I don't get is that if the believers take the Bible at its word, don't they realize that when the Holy Ghost gives the Apostles tongues it was supposedly real languages. The Apostles become able to tell travelers who don't speak the local language, Aramaic, about the Crucifixion.
Tests were conducted to see if anybody in a Pentecostal church was speaking a real language from anywhere in the world.
Surprise, surprise, surprise...it NEVER is!
I am a former Pentecostal and this sound so sad to me.
When I was a believer I also had a hard time letting myself doubt.
Me too
Dan: I'm wondering, how did you come to the conclusion that body thetans are real?
Delusional person: Well mainly through studying Dianetics, going to the Scientology center, listening to my auditor.
I can't imagine having a double standard so massive and not seeing it.
"I am not trying to convince you"
The only people who say this are people who have little iidea of why the believe something and they are on some level aware of this fact.
This is sad.
This woman legit can't think straight because of her indoctrination...
I'm not sure it's safe for her to question her beliefs.
Loved this conversation Dan. I watch all 3 ACA shows, and I by far prefer yours due to the calm nature of your conversation (Matt is great too though, don't get me wrong). I much prefer the religious conversations as opposed to anything else, but that's just me :). Also - I can really feel the same SE style as Anthony Magnabosco here. I'm sure you've picked up a few things from talking with him.
"Since I was born"....🤔
When she was born, she did not believe in any god. Then her brain was gang raped regularly.
Antonius Grave They should have unpacked that comment a little bit more. The fact that she’s convinced she’s believed since she was born makes her childhood indoctrination apparent.
I would have pointed out that she could have believed “at birth” and must have begun to believe at some later point in life. They should be trying to home in on that event.
If she realizes that she can’t remember when she first believed, then maybe she will come to realize that she never really thought about her beliefs, and just accepted what she was told her whole life.
“Mommy and Daddy said you will go to HELL if you think for yourself”. That’s just fucking sad. Keep your children away from this bullshit.
There’s something very wrong when people are not allowed to think for themselves. That smell of control.
Poor woman, heartbreaking.
Not being judged on FB? That’s an extraordinary claim.
How can we turn our backs to god if god is everywhere? Are we more powerful than god then?
Jenny seems like a really nice person. Unfortunately she represents billions of others around the world who are indoctrinated with this irrational thinking.
I wonder what she would say if asked whether learning things is a sin, and if not how that would be different from considering the sort of questions they are asking.
I don't know how people don't think is suspicious that someone would create you just to control your whole life all the way to your thoughts. Even worst, makes you fear him and feel guilty of everything. Even of just existing!
Since we're "sinful" to begin with because of something that we didn't do.
How is that reasonable and fair coming form a supposedly benevolent god?
Beautifully handled Dan, proving atheists have compassion and don't judge
He was testing out street epistemology for sure and I think it's a good fit
This is how bad it is. I was like this. My parents are like this. Nothing happens without God or the Devil. The devil must be as powerful as god cos ummmm.... he’s winning right now.
Stronger even. Satan repeatedly tricks God and ruins God's plans. But God is clearly unable to stop satan. Which obviously any 'all good' being would want to, since he is supposedly evil. Also, ask a Christian why they believe. 90% of the time they say their fear of hell. Which means they worship satan, not God.
Terry Fulds woah. But that makes sense. Have to hand it to you
Terry Fulds how do you know that?
Alexander Blake he won you over?
She is an incurable sheep, in the middle of her flock and determined to follow heedlessly as long as she feels surrounded by clones of herself who make her feel warm and fuzzy as long as she lets the flock think for her, she's 100% invested in her society and is probably happier in ignorance.
well she is a victim, and putting her down is not the way to go. if we ever have a chance for change attitude like this is not the way to go about it
If this woman is from NJ, I am a duck. I was born in New Jersey. I have lived in the south. That accent is pure dixie.
People move you know..
She probably moved
Funny enough, jersey boi here in Tennessee since my family moved.
That there are still people like her.......
What a horrible shame.
When people say "that's a really good question" it either means you've heard it a thousand times before, or you have no clue.
Thinking bad thoughts is forbidden
i am fucking crying here...i just want to hug and hold Jenny and cry together....
When talking to theists, how do I make the conversation non-threatening when I have such strong convictions about the non-existence of the Christian god?I struggle with this a lot because I get passionate and I come across as offensive, as if I was attacking them personally when that's not what I want to accomplish. I want to spark doubt, interest in knowing and not just believing without any basis in reality.
How can I become non-confrontational?
Watch some videos on street epistemology. The technique is not easy to learn but it's, basically, asking questions. The hosts on this clip were doing it. You can see that when they made some progress they stopped. She seemed kinda disappointed, I think because she found it to be an interesting conversation. She may think about it more. That's all you can do in one conversation. These are deep rooted beliefs. You can't break through them in a few minutes.
Watch Atheist Experience on youtube. See how they handle their theist callers.
@Larry Moens not all of them, for sure. There’s a lot of obvious frustration and much hanging up on callers. Even a few “shut the fuck up”s.
Personally, I get a bit pissed off at those that come off as trolls, obvious bigots, or those that simply don’t take part in actual conversation and just want to “prove me wrong”.
As I’m sure theists feel the same.
But those that I can actually have a conversation with have been very fulfilling and insightful.
With those, I ask a lot of questions. But I also was a christian for decades, so I generally know what they’ll answer. I also am extremely familiar with the bible, so I can spot a cherry-pick, an out-of-context, or inadequate interpretation easily.
It can be interesting to see a change happen in a conversation where I’ve become the bible teacher.
They might end the conversation quickly, but respectfully, or even say I gave them insight.
That’s kind of rewarding.
But, then again, so is calling a moron a moron. 😉
Street epistemology is the best way to approach believers. Watch some TH-cam videos showing examples of it. It's not too hard to pick up. You have to be patient though. I've ended up in an hour long conversation using this technique.
Wow. I can't even.
"the bahble.." i've heard enough
3:37 ... not to mention jews, sikhs, hindus, muslims, zoroastrians....
Any idea when the FB group will return? It's been about a year
well ... she actually seems to be a nice intelligent woman ... just one who haven't been introduced to other ways of thinking
Is really sad that religion doesn't encourage thinking. She is afraid of even thinking that something contradict her believes.
You have a really low bar when it comes to intelligence.
Intelligent, no. Nice maybe.
I never believed in modern day speaking in tongues, but man I can relate to the “doubting is a sin” and “I’m afraid talking about these things as a sin”. I hope she finds her way out of it. Leaving religion was the most liberating thing in my life and made me a much better person and less judging.
I wish they kept her on
This is really sad.
Sad is the right word. This poor, non thinking woman is part of a plague that will undoubtedly doom the worlds population to slavery and worse. If grown people can't learn to apply critical thinking and stop believing in Dark Age plagiarized myths as a guide to life we're surely doomed quicker than we know.
Man, that call was a little saddening
Holy CRAP! For real?
14:42 why are they letting her justify believing in god by saying "because jesus died for us"? They are going way to easy!
They are doing her no favor going so easy on her. They need to introduce her to REALITY instead of letting her make nonsense up to wiggle out of their questions.
can't, and will not, talk to these people
don't, and will never, empathize with the less fortunate
“I learned from reading my bible, going to church and talking to my pastor”... a bit like only watching Fox News and Trump tweets to get your political news.
@Steve Gracy haven’t you heard? He’s the “second coming”
@Gromph Baenre what flavor is that koolaid?
barkYdarkATFB - to most, it’s the not so sweet taste of BS
@Liam Roberts apparently, like shitty beer or break room coffee, you get used to the taste.
barkYdarkATFB - Boke!
This caller never learned how to think critically. So sad.
I came here after seeing Dan on Street Epistemology - it's obvious he's been working out those Socratic muscles.
It was not a good conversation. They let her leave thinking she was right in her beliefs. That did her no favor.
Is she having a dopamine rush while in church?
Most people do. It's the warm fuzzies they try to use as evidence for a god like presence.
It’s part of what keeps them going back.
I get the same feeling in a good loud ROCK concert.
If we manage to determine whether religion is the cause...or the result...of insanity, we might be able to cure both.
Typically when a person tells me they believe in God or Christianity or any other faith, I believe that they are lying to me and just putting up a front. I know that is Prejudiced and I know that is not fair, it most likely comes from the fact that I never was raised to believe in a god. Jenny might be the first person calling into this show that I believe is being honest and truthful. She also has the most logical explanation that I've ever heard on any of these atheist call-in shows which is, I don't really have a reason I just believe. I got to give her credit for honesty.
I know God exists because I feel it. Oh praise you O Master Bation!
If you can fake speaking in tongues and speak in tongues by the Holy Spirit, then how can anyone know the difference?
I love to heard Godless Iomen he is very clear right to the point !! A great atheist 👏😁🥰,
This call makes me think of the Bhagwan cult.
The devil makes you think.
11:43 shes not good at debates....i wonder why?
wow.....my keyboard works again !
Pentecostal speaking that gibberish and Forgot About Dre
Religions are ALL about smoke and mirrors. Sin also !. ..................
She said a trick and I just assumed she was trying to turn one.......because of the accent
Thank You God for making me an atheist!
😂
What a horrible religion that makes people so afraid of even momentarily THINKING the wrong thing! I think it's child abuse to indoctrinate your children into such beliefs. At the beginning of the call, when she questined if they were going to make her "sin", i knew that she was too far gone. I don't know if there's any way she can find her way out of the cult and into reality, but if she can, it will probably take decades.
In extreme Christian culture parents teach that doubt is sin, in extreme Islam cultures parents teach that leaving Islam is punishable by death. Mind be one of the reasons why people leave Islam less frequently than Christianity.
This woman is quite entertaining. Ive never watched this show before, i hope they are fixing to pounce on her
Speaking in tongues is an exercise for feeble-minded.
Easy to copy too .
But a must-have Talking Heads CD.
‘Goin against muh bauble?’ … well yea.
She's so afraid. :-(
Of course she is. She's been indoctrinated that if she thinks wrong her loving forgiving god will send her to be tortured forever. It's a cult mind control technique.
Alas ........................
THAT is what her religion does
@@gowdsake7103 That, and taking your MONEY .....................
People that think like her keep conmen in business.
Beth D. 2.0?
I can't tell anymore who is a po and who is real.
Ugh, what a terrible time to cut off the call!
Poor woman. How sad.
This was a nice lady willing to expose her ignorance if/when she was. I appreciate this. There are indeed good Christians. Still not for me tho👌🙂
Seeing a lot of these ambush calls lately. Be nice if ACA shows could call out the people who put these folks up to this more than going in on them. Quite the muddled conversation when the caller is clueless about what is going on and why.
I thought they explained it pretty well right off the bat. After a minute or two she was aware and willing.
They were pretty “kid gloves” with her the whole time.
One word: Indocrinated... sad........
Wow
Poor Jenny is an example of being brainwashed. Sad.
you cut her off just when she was going to cite THE passge you asked for, because you were going to take other calls, then you discuss why you're right. what crap. until then it was good. you screwed up big time. go back and listen. disappointed agnostic atheist in france.