ESPRESSO ANATOMY - Scott Rao's Allongé Shot
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ส.ค. 2021
- Long shots and I have a love-hate relationship. Sometimes they are eye opening experiences, and in other times they are undrinkable cups of hot brown garbage water, but what about Scott Rao's Allongé? Well baristas, I'm about to find out since I borrowed a Decent DE1+ just for this single purpose!
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I enjoyed this video very much, except for the bit at 2:17 where you ratio'd grams to ounces and my brain popped.
3.17466-3.80959 ounce to be specific, or 90-108 grams which make world easier and coffee less wiered.
Bless the world of coffee for helping me learn the metric system slowly every day through practice. I started out with no mental concept of what different metric values looked like when coming across values and ratios, now I'm so used to them, coffee can be educational!
100% with you LOL
Same here
It’s the hoff
If you look at the shot you made at 2.50 the flow rate drops after what you call preinfusion. A normal allonge maintains flow rate across the entire shot around 4 to 4.5 ml/s. You ground too fine.
Yeah, I wondered about that!
he found grinner!
After COVID I shifted from ~2:1 in 30s with a dark roast to >4:1 in 30s with a medium roast.
Sadly I can’t stand dark roasts anymore! I had to bin all my frozen beans…
Meanwhile, I get INCREDIBLY exquisite flavors from medium roasted beans (especially Jamaican Blue Mountain)…
My absolute favorite is a second shot pulled using Jamaican Blue Mountain from a La Pavoni at 9g in and 36g out in ~30s, ground on a Eureka Mignon.
It is my morning wake-up shot!
It takes me longer to drink it than it takes to make it - it is THAT good!
But, DAMN it tastes good!!!
Wonderful surprise with the Decent Espresso Machine, so futuristic yet so elegant and timeless being able to pull the Alonge’ Shot. I like long shots myself. Your videos are always fun and superbly done and love the surprises with content no one dares to tread.
Is it the same with matt perger coffee shot in 2013 world barista championship? Matt used coarser grind size and longer ratio too when he made coffee shot in wbc 2013.
Not sure, I’m not familiar with that competition specifically, but it sounds similar.
And I think Rao was doing it years before Perger's performance at a cafe in Canada.
It's moving more these days! Congrats, dude!
So I just tried this on my ratchet $150 machine and *ahem* blade grinder. Coarse (12 seconds lol). Fruit-forward light roast. 18g coffee. I opted for my pressurized basket. Stacked the single and double shot settings together with no measurement of output otherwise and...um, that might legitimately be the best coffee I've ever made. I have a feeling this is a pretty forgiving method. Thanks for this
This reminds me greatly of caffe crema which was popular at the turn of the century. To produce it we had to lower the pressure of our home machines by altering the OPV. No pre-infusion here, folks. Just a coarser grinder and a lower overall operating pressure.
I've pulled quite a few of these on my two year old Decent. My enjoyment of this style is very bean dependent. Sometimes I cannot get enough this shot with a certain bean and then other times it just tastes weak and uninspiring. Having this in my espresso toolkit is fun. Bottom line - a shot style used maybe 5% of the time predominately for lighter roast African beans like Ethiopian, Kenyan, and Burundai.
oh perfect was heading to SD tomorrow anyways, gonna see if i can pick up a bag of that from Birdrock. Huge fan of Jasmine scent, never experienced any jasmine note in coffee though.
Can decent machine keep up with LM on straight 9 bar shot ? Ive heard it struggles with that? Does xxl version fix that with higher flow rate??
Never tried it yet, but this has me curious. When I’m done with my current beans I’ll give it a go. I have some lightly roasted Honduras typica washed that I roasted yesterday that I want to try this on. Would your recommend a conical (NZ) or flat (DF64) to try this out on?
If you have both it try it out with both. I personally only tried it on my NZ, so maybe flats will be a different experience.
New camera/set? Or just shot with higher shutter speed than usual so it looks different?
Nice content btw!!
Rao Allongé is set on the DE1 at a constant flow rate of 4,5 ml/s. Do you know where this value of flow is coming from ?
To resume the advantage of this profile, when do I use Rao Allongé to make a shoot ?
Thanks.
How does this compare to something like a moka pot extraction? Certainly a pretty significant pressure difference but the ratio is pretty similar
I’ve pulled a few on my Oscar II. Far removed from the quality expected from a Decent, or even a traditional straight 9 bar machine. But with the right grinder and puck prep I’ve been very surprised at how good the results have been. Maybe when I get a Decent it’ll blow me away.
I think the decent is really the way to have these kinds of shots, but they are worth trying on other machines because their still good, just not quite as tasty.
Amazing video coupled with Spro, James and Lance dropping comments 🤯
What app do you use for the extraction?
I’m not sure if it’s at all possible with a manual lever machine.. the Flair Pro 2 reservoir holds 70 mls of water, so it’s possible in theory, but not all of it will pass through the portafilter. Would love to try the allongé out of sheer curiosity, but I do love lungos in general, just not as high as >1:5.
Do you recommend a certain type of coffee beans? Roast level, origin?
I think you could get something close if you reduce your dose. Maybe to 12-14grams, drop the brew temp a bit, and then you may be able to get something close to an allonge or a Lungo.
Personally with lungos and all longer style shots I tend to use lighter roasted coffees with lots of delicate notes. The longer pull really helps bring those notes to the forefront. So of course Ethiopians are always a winner, but nearly every origin has their own benefits. Some Colombians have blown me away with their complexity, also a Kenyan can be a great option.
Have tried this exact one but my local barista here in Belize never does the typical 2:1 ratio and his coffee is better then what I'm ever able to accomplish with a 2:1 ratio and he's using very cheap equipment. Since he gave me his tutorials I've been exploring it myself and I honestly find the long shots to be more enjoyable than the 2:1 shots. My guy here is doing more of a 1:8 ratio
Hey Prom , did you tried that turbo shot ? Sound kinda similar , i just dont get it ...
Great video but noticed you said 10s preinfusion for this shot. Is that standard because I see a bunch of different answers
I’m still wondering when you’ll do a full review on the Decent
How would you compare an Allonge to a turbo shot?
About what temperature were you running? Did you adjust up/down, etc? TIA
I just ran the temp the profile was set to. I believe it was at right about 200. With such a long extraction I wouldn’t go too much hotter to risk over extraction. If I was using a medium I maybe would’ve gone a bit cooler, and darker even cooler.
Getting ready to try this on my flair signature pro. Bit worried bout the small holding capacity tho....lets see....
Hv 2 washed (both single origin, one robusta and one mysore nugget arabica medium roast) and one single origin honey dried one ....will gv this technique a try on all these..... mostly first on the honey dried as i think that has the most "fruity" potential.....
Will update with results! Gr8 video btw👍
Curious to know how it turns out. If you’re struggling with the water capacity you can always decrease the dose to up the ratios a bit, and just brew a bit cooler to avoid over extraction
I love that machine but I need to try the shot thanks 🙏 for sharing
Of course, thanks for watching! And definitely try the allonge if you get a chance.
@@Sprometheus for sure
Could the difference in the clarity between the Decent and the linea mini be related to the headspace of the machines? The decent has a much larger headspace compared to the linea. I’m wondering how this shot with change on the Decent if the Sheldon Wong spacer was installed.
Just a question : if spacer is installed on the DE1 which impact on coffee flavor and taste ? Is it clearly better or not ? And compared to the Linea is decent better ? Thanks
@@catalinjeanmarc yes it impacts taste. It makes the espresso thicker and more creamy. More similar to the linea.
I’ll have to give this a shot with my Profitec Pro 700 since it has flow control.
It seems to me the allongé is a variation on the scientifically researched 'turbo shot' that you, Lance Hedrick and James Hoffmann talked about in earlier videos.
Coarser grind, faster flow, longer ratios... The allongé just takes it another step further. A step too far for my taste.
I've quite liked the turbo shots I got from my Cafelat Robot but I can't say the same about the allongé.
Bright on the cusp of sour, a bit hollow...
Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
The problem there might be heat loss. I believe it’s less of an issue on the Robot, but I’m hoping my 58 will resolve that when it arrives
I just might try a 10g dose allonge tomorrow with my Flair 58 and see how it goes
What about a video reviewing the Decent espresso machine?
I'm not surprised it has some body, even at 1:6 it's stronger than a moka pot. Having watched some of John's zoom calls where he says it's "technically still espresso because it reaches pressures necessary for crema" I always thought it was a stretch but I wanted to try it anyway. Too bad the Flair signature holds so little water. I can, however, do a blooming espresso which is very delicious with a washed Ethiopian, have you tried that on your Decent?
Yeah I would say it still falls into the espresso realm no question, but I think those long extractions aren’t really great for anything past a medium because over extraction would be a likely outcome.
I’ve tried blooming espresso on my Flair, but only has the decent for a weekend and didn’t have a lot of time to dig into all of the recipes so I just stuck with the allonge most of the time.
@@Sprometheus well if it was only a limited time thing then I'm glad you focused your attention where you did! The Allongé deserves this kind of attention from outside the immediate Decent-sphere
@@carbon5261 the real play would be to do a blooming allongé
It looks weird but tastes good like a hybrid basically. Maybe I didn’t do it right. Mine was 2bars of pressure the whole time so maybe that was too course.
So… do you get to hold onto the DE1 for a while, or was it just for this video? Id love for you to do a review of the Decent.
I’ve been saving for a Mini for some time. Never had much interest in a profiling machine, since I want to make espresso drinks, not work in a lab. But something clicked for me this week. On the DE1, I can just select a profile that matches a given coffee and press go. Once it’s dialed in, the graphs tell me when I got it right or fudged it. That’s pretty simple. Frankly, my main reservation is with workflow. I steam and pull simultaneously, and have a fast steam setup. It could be hard to give that up. It’s no big deal most mornings, but I don’t want to be stuck in the kitchen for an hour while the extended family is enjoying Thanksgiving pie….
These machines are utterly different, but are both at the top of their class without having completely outlandish prices. It’s really about avoiding disappointment. The Mini will never have much flexibility and isn’t really portable. The DE1 workflow is slower, due to its steam. But if the quality of the steam is as good or better, maybe it moves to the top of my list.
Your insight would be really interesting.
Unfortunately I only had it for a few days, and was pretty much solely focused on allongés during that time, but I do wish I had a bit more time with it as there’s a lot going on with it.
You’re correct that the Decent doesn’t have to be complicated and you can run it as you described, but in my mind I feel like that’s more or less a waste of its potential.
Personally I would like to own one, but barring some kind of really good deal from them or something like that I don’t think you’ll see a permanent Decent in my videos for some time.
The workflow isn’t awful, but honestly I feel like having that level of control and data would turn my already somewhat debilitating perfectionism into something far worse. With the Mini I’m much happier on the daily basis.
Steam on the Decent has been a issue for me. It either didn’t work and told me it needed a descale, and when it did work it would be so weak that I couldn’t get it to even move the milk. I’m sure there’s more wrong with it and that’s not a fair representation of its ability there. But having used the Mini and many other machines I’ve been hugely impressed with the Mini’s power and repeatability on steam. It’s just so good.
That said, for me, and I think for a lot of home baristas who spend time focusing on their espresso extractions, being able to steam and pull simultaneously (I.e. dual boilers) is pretty much useless, so I wouldn’t really factor that in to your buying decision unless that’s a workflow thing you really care about. If it is, the Mini will be your winner.
Overall I think most coffee people would be happy with either, because let’s face it, a machine is always better than no machine. I do feel like the Mini is more reliable as it’s less complicated, and likely if you’re even remotely handy with a wrench you could do a lot of the work on it yourself, which I think is a good selling point honestly.
One thing I was kind of weirded out by on the Decent is it’s water tank having no lid and being completely open. It’s just a ceramic tub. Which makes it nice for cleaning, but if you leave water in there for a few days there’s a chance of bugs, dust, pet hair, and whatever else may be flying around getting in there with very little effort.
@@Sprometheus - Great, quick review. Yeah, the open tank is odd. A good case for plumbing it. On the steam, I believe that they have a newer wand and upgraded the pressure profile. You might not have gotten their latest. From what I’ve seen, it can deliver good pressure, dry steam, and limited flow. It could be that this is easy to control for high success and good quality, but a slow experience. I thought about their 220VAC models, but that would make transport impractical. 110VAC makes it portable. So I’m torn. Fast, powerful steam is pro, but can be harder to be consistent and tough for small drinks. Slow, dry steam might be easy to control for success, but could be frustrating.
On longevity, it’s ironic. The DE1 represents the future, but might be transitional. The Mini is old school, but robust.
On the DE1 potential, I think it can work for me. I’m not likely to get sucked in to endless tinkering, but I’m likely to find some profiles that I like as starting points, refine them and enjoy. I could see having four main profiles (African/American, light/med-dark) and a couple of fun shots (turbo, whatever.) Could offer value without being untethered.)
I’ll decide before the end of the year.
@@JonFairhurst End up choosing one yet?
@@BensCoffeeRants Yes! I received the Mini just last week. It’s exactly as advertised. Great!
I had been reluctant to switch from a commercial machine to the Decent in part because of the steaming, but the quality of milk steamed in the Decent has been one of my biggest surprises. It is possible to control the steam pressure and I've actually found that by decreasing it a bit I can improve the quality of the milk. It takes me 23 seconds to steam milk from cold to get it where I want it, which is no appreciable difference from my old commercial machine. I believe also that the XXL model allows you to steam and brew simultaneously - but not certain as I never did that on my old dual boiler machine anyway.
Try the Italian Australian espresso profile . It’s my current go to for light roast. I’m grinding at 18-20 on a niche. 18g in 45g out @ around 27-34 seconds. The DE1 is on a whole other level.
Unfortunately I only had it for a weekend, I did feel like there is a lot more to explore there. If I hadn’t already spent a ton on a new camera I may have invested in a Decent just to have. Maybe in the future though.
@@Sprometheus The Decent Espresso Machines and The Real Sprometheus would be a Natural
Interesting stuff. Gonna leave this one to you pro's with Decents
Haha, I mean it wasn’t bad on my Mini, I think it’s worth giving a shot (no pun intended).
Just made this with some filter roasted decaf peruvian coffee and I was shocked how much I could legitimately taste the notes on the coffee (mandarin, raisin, and gingerbread) while still getting espresso style body.
Would be interesting to know how does this compares to a concentrated V60/aeropress brew (say 1:10 ratio) in highlighting the fruity characteristics
Moka Pot as well
Hey Sprometheus, there seems to be a weird watermark/burn in stuff in the video. It’s around the lower center of the video and it’s visible on your grey shirt. Have you noticed?
I'm aware of it, but its not a burn or watermark. I film in front of a window for the best lighting and sometimes depending on the time of day the shadow of the blinds is visible.
Beautiful machine 😍
Ya know it’s grown on me a bit. I just wish it felt more substantial in the hand. It still sort of feels like a toy.
@@Sprometheus feels like a toy, costs like real thing 😂
Try it with filterpaper under the coffee and on top of it.
I’m confused. The 10 sec preinfuse is rather short. As far as I’ve come, the game is to lengthen preinfuse to allow finer grind which allows sweeter light roast shots-up to Turkish grind. You didn’t mention the “pause” phase after the preinfuse stage-essentially an aero press “bloom” which brings to mind-why not just use an Aeropress? And save $4K?
1. No preinfusion to speak of. It’s a flat flow of 4ml/s for the entire shot.
2. The physics of the Decent allonge - constant flow rate, introduction of fresh hot clean water into the system at a precise and known temperature, a tamped puck, and a pressure peak at 6-9 bar….it couldn’t be more different to brewing with an aeropress. But feel free to give it a go!
what cups are these ??
These are from a ceramics maker out of Seattle, www.skayeceramics.com
Finally now i know how to make a allonge
Give it a go and let me know how you like it.
Could this be done on a manual lever machine?
You should be able to sort of mimic the pressure and flow rate profile manually but I don't think you can pass through enough water using something like a Flair to get the same shot length, can you?
@@wahlenwahlen on my Rok I can add more water, it might disrupt the flow so I don’t know 🤷♂️
I can try it and see.
You can, I think you would want to use a lower dose of coffee to try and reach the higher ratios as the manual lever machines have a bit of water constraint.
@@Sprometheus looks like I’ve got some experimenting to do.
All on jay
Forgive me for my ignorance, but isn't an allongé just a double espresso?
"That shit's childsplay!" YESSSSSS
Inspyred by standard magazine?;)
Would be interesting to try out! I only have an Appartamento though, but with good puck prep, a 15g vst filter (should technically allow for finer grind size due to less restriction by less coffee) and a short pre-infusion I might be able to pull something that doesn’t taste like the liquid in my drip tray 😜
Haha, only one way to find out! After you give it a go let me know how it works out.
Anyone experienced with a good lever machine should be able to pull a tasty allonge 👍
who likes the taste of channeling, will love this
Interesting, I expected less channeling with corser grind.
This is the type of thing that seems interesting to try, but trying to pull it on the Gaggia seems daunting
Haha, I get that. But it may be worth a try. Never know, may turn out pretty tasty.
I'd try going for a 1:5 at a lower dose and see how things go, maybe even go for something like a singleshot basket
So, based on ratios only a typical nespresso shot could be considered an allongé.
So, is a Decent review coming in the future?
Possibly, if I can get ahold of one for a bit longer. That one has seen some miles, and has a bent frame so maybe not an idea candidate for a review haha
@@Sprometheus it’s also an older model without the group head controller.
@@Sprometheus how long would you need to rent one for a proper review? I might be down to letting you borrow mine for a review depending on how long you would need...
A-long-jay …sounds like Compa has a menu item runaway name with that accent.
I’m glad this video wasn’t too lungo.
I see what you did there, haha
"Hot brown garbage water" 😆
I'm going to try this with my un-modded Silvia... My expectations aren't high lol
Ya know I think you may be surprised how good it may turn out, but the decent likely still will be better.
I actually have been pulling these on my Silvia that has a PID mod but no flow control. If you aren't doing it already, try the preinfusion trick (opening the hot water/steam valve before you turn on the pump, and then slowly close the valve). doing that will make it less likely that you get bad channeling during a shot that is this long. Also if you aren't already, WDT and good puck prep in general are important on the super high ratio shots.
I also am lucky enough to have a big bag of the Facsimile Ethiopia Sidamo so I got to pull using a very similar coffee.
Please stop mixing grams and ounces 🙏🏻
Nope.
@@Sprometheus my small British brain cannot make sense of it 😂
High ratio sure… but still better than that goddamn americano… 🥴
In France we ask allongé to the waiter when espresso is too strong for some people… you might call that lungo though. Who knows…🙄
Great video btw! To the point!
I can’t do Americanos either. To be honest I never understood watered down espresso, but the right Lungo and Allonge definitely hit different. Wouldn’t be my go-to for espresso, but with the right coffee it’s a winner.
I thought you're gonna cover sprover shot as well. It's something easier on traditional machines.
Not on this go. If I have a decent for a few days the allonge is what I wanted to try out.
17 grams in, at 6x ratio and got bla bla bla ounces out? This is how the Challenger crashed...!
Tom DAllonge
He’s always chasing perfect shots and UFOS 🛸
Can you please get a decent mic so you can stop shouting all the time …. Love all vids and content and been a loyal sub. Thank you 🙏🏻
Allongé > Americano
Absolutely, but that isn’t a high bar. I think I could count on one hand Americanos I’ve enjoyed. Something about watery espresso that just doesn’t hit.
Mixing grams and ounces. Wtf.
I have found a longer pull for fruitier lighter roasts is a better idea to curve the acidic nature of fruit bombs. So seeing this, while different, checks out to me and how I pull things.
18 in, 41-45 out, in 29-35 seconds.
SACRILEGE I KNOW
But let me tell ya, lemon never tasted so sweet.
Wish I could try this with a decent though cause that profile is super interesting to watch in action.
Why taking existing coffee names in foreign languages and making them a new recipe, super confusing... e.g. spanish latte, l' allongé (it's a lungo in French, sorry) etc. Kiwis/Aussies got it right when they invented new names for their new creations (e.g. the magic, the flat white, the piccolo), let's follow their example no?
There's a reason why they play music during the final credits versus reading them out loud.
Well, also those people don’t pay for a spoken credit for their contribution. You can thank those people for a lot of what I do since they help me afford to keep making videos.
First ?
I’m first
Very creative ! It's actually a french press coffee...