17:1 ratio 20g of coffee 340g of water 1. BLOOM 3x coffee weight 20 x 3 = 60g water Agitate either through stirring with a spoon or swirling the brewer Wait 45 sec 2. FIRST POUR Pour up to 210g Try to pour as high as possible while avoiding a splashing sound and maintaining an even height Move the kettle in concentric circles to ensure agitation and even coverage Wait until the slurry has drained halfway before starting the next pour 3. SECOND POUR Pour to the final target brew weight of 340g Do a Rao Spin™ to ensure a flat bed and even extraction Wait for the slurry to fully drain and enjoy your coffee!
I found that with natural process coffee. This methode makes it overxtract with dry aftertaste. At least from my xperience. Maybe coz of the coffee roasted ?
Thanks for the guide. Im new to pour over coffee and this is very helpful. I have brewed 3 cups based on this. I have one problem. I get a slightly sour taste in my cup. I follow the general 3 minute rule. I have fresh coffee that I grind with a burr grinder and I weigh it all out. What could the issue be?
Likely need to grind the coffee finer. Sour usually indicates under extraction. So in short you need to get more out of the coffee, thus a finer grind. (It could also potentially be to low a water temp but if you are using water that 195-205 that is not the issue).
SCOTT’S RECIPE • Wet paper filter, add 20g coffee (Niche grind setting: 40) • Prewet grounds 60g water. Spin. Optionally, use spoon to gently dig into paper filter crevices as needed. Wait 45sec from initial pour, then • 2nd pour up to 210g and wait for slurry to drain about halfway, then • 3rd pour up to 340g (17:1 ratio). Gently spin. Allow to drain.
@@AmericanUltras96 he did 3:1 bloom, about 60% total intended water in 2nd pour, 3rd pour completes. this is a pretty typical technique. you'll often see 2x to 3x for the bloom, then the same 60%/40% next 2 pours. the 45 second bloom is very typical, anything in the 30-45 second range is reasonable. often the next 2 pours are 30 seconds each, meaning final pour must be slower since less water.
@@spellbinder6818 I've owned 2. Only bought the second because I immigrated. Extremely reliable, although it needs a bit of time when it comes to accurately measuring small doses, say under 15g
Thank you for the update! Not really critically important, but I can’t help but be curious, since you mentioned it, as to why you’re not using the V60 as much?
@@martyhopkirk6826 in the American vernacular, the word "niche" is pronounced exactly how he pronounced it. In Britain, it is pronounced "neesh" but that's not correct in the US.
@@FleshyPink niche is a borrowed French word so that pronunciation is just wrong. In time, it becomes the right one because such is the way of spoken language... but it stays painful to hear lol
Great video. I usually use the James Hoffman technique, which is not dissimilar. You do 2 pours, one up to about 60% of the water, then the next 40% in a second pour. James does one pour, but adapts the flow rate so that the first 60% take 30s to pour, and the next 40% also take 30s to pour. What would you say is the theoretical difference between your technique (2 pours, same flow rate), and his (1 pour, 2 flow rates)? Thanks!
The higher pour with this method would cause more agitation (ideally through deeper turbulence through the coffee bed), but also with letting the water drain a bit before the last pour, you'd get more extraction vs maintaining a higher slurry temp with Hoffman's.
@@bartoszkleszcz5420 No. And annoyingly 40 on one Niche is not 40 on another, they're inconsistent according to the user forums. Amazing grinder, but not made for sharing grind settings.
Is the grind size the same as any other technique (so let's say medium)? Cause the drowdown really looked slow to me but I've only worked with V60 so far
I feel stupid that I just realized why I always get that splashy sound when I pour a Chemex vs a v60. The Chemex especially with the square filters forces you to pour from much higher
Asser from “The coffee chronicler” talks about the same mod which includes using a spreader and also drilling larger holes for faster flow rate on a kalita wave ...According to Asser stainless kalita are the slowest and takes 53 seconds for 500 ml to drain as supposed to 30 plus seconds in ceramic/ glass ....
Thanks for the mention, Dan. You're right about the ceramic one being faster. Instead of a tea strainer I use the Flair Pro dispersion screen which fits perfectly in the bottom of the dripper 👍
I pick up the filter with the Hario V60 to help it drain faster after rinsing the filters. Otherwise, I notice there is some suction created from the water adhesion can slow down the drain.
I was following your other technique with my V60 the whole summer as I started my coffee journey, 5 days ago I wanted to try the Kalita and you just uploaded a new technique with it. Amazing.
Then it is confirmed, there is so much issue with the stainless steel version of Kalita Wave. You should replace it with the ceramic version. Coffee Chronicler said that the ceramic version gives much better result although not a portable device.
I'm sure the ceramic is better, but I already have the metal one (and many other brewers) and I like stuff that i can't break :0. Kalita is rarely my go-to brewer. thanks
If you were to scale up to two servings, around 600g total, would you still do 2 pours if possible? Or split the brew into additional pours of around ~150g each?
If there's a decent amount of water in it, it should only drop a couple degrees. Wouldn't make much of a difference unless it's dropping 5+ in most cases, but maybe that would work with certain coffees. Could always do a side by side. I'd say it's better to keep it steady to eliminate that variable at first.
would be fun to hear what you see the key differences between the former and current versions - a fan of the former version - using it reliably for - ever - this one has wet and two pours rather than one. Pour is still constant height. It seems it's gone from 360 to 340 as well? is that coffee type specific? or your generic ratio now? THANK YOU
During the pre-wet process, when you're using the spoon to ensure that all the grounds are getting wet ... Are you digging the spoon right into coffee grounds and stirring it a bit? I'm new to coffee and trying to refine my technique :) Thanks for the great video!
Hi Scott! I have been using your (now old) V60 technique for quite some time now. Thanks for this! Just a question, what would the difference be between the old method's single main pour, with this two pour method? What I found attractive to that single pour method was its ease of replication, and the fact that (correct me if I'm wrong) the water weight allows for a faster drawdown and finer grind.
So great to see this update. I like how simple your techniques are-but there's a lot of subtlety in your simplicity! I've been using your updated method for the past few months now (after using your original V60 method for years), and I always have huge bubbles both during the pre-wet and throughout brewing. Using a gooseneck kettle and trying to move in concentric circles. Any chance you could offer up some tips for a more even extraction?
Hi Scott, thanks for the video! Question: You mention that you do a 45 second bloom pour to pour, but your bloom starts at 1:35 and next pour starts at about 2:40 for a bloom of a minute and 5 seconds. Just curious if I’m missing something?
I cut some discs out of .4mm wire mesh that I bought on Amazon and fastened it to the bottom of my flat bottom drippers with a few tiny dabs of food grade silicon. 10 months later and they're all still firmly connected.
Scott- you said a 40 on the niche grinder, which from looking seems on the coarser side, do I understand that correctly? I have a baratza encore and am trying to use your technique as close as possible for starters Also, great video and thanks for making it
Still learning pour over after decades on a French press and have the baratza encore as well. Started at 10, am up to 12 now but still not happy with the results so thinking I may need to go coarser now (to complicate things I’m using a medium roast my wife got me for Xmas when I usually drink light roasts). Finding pour over much less forgiving than a French press, so many factors that can take the brew off course, but enjoying the learning process and looking forward to the rewards when I get it all dialled in right.
@@scottrao5268 Thanks Scott! Certainly not the answer I was expecting... I'd be curious why if you're willing to share (bed depth?). Maybe it's time to dust off the Chemex lol!!
Awesome, really useful to get your input on the Kalita especially and thanks for the mesh tip. Have you experimented with covering the Kalita after final pour to retain heat in the slurry? I've been testing this out but haven't done a side-by-side comparison brew yet.
@@Philosophaster I also tried Comandante 21 (Origami S + Wave 155 filter) and it turned out pretty good. I liked that he doesn’t focus on timing but rather tasting to adjust. I used to focus and adjust based on timing which always resulted in frustration. My current challenge is this: I get a very nice, transparent and fruity cup, but at the end of it there is a bad harshness can be tasted at roof of my mouth. It’s not regular bitterness so that I can fix it by grinding coarser. Coffee tastes amazing but this harshness kills me. Any idea how to fix it?
@@MinimalUnbox when have you cleaned your grinder last time? My biggest breakthrough with a persistent bitterness I couldn't fix was cleaning my grinder.
@@MinimalUnbox It sounds like you might be describing a dry finish? Coffee will have a dry or soapy finish when it is under extracted. Make sure you're using hot enough water, ideally right off the boil assuming you're not using dark roast. Poor quality water will also cause poor extraction. I was using pure RO water for years but could never make light roasts taste good without the dry/soapy finish until I started remineralizing my pure water, which increased extraction.
Thanks for updating Scott! I have been following your V60 method for some time now and it produces great coffee, but I'm wondering if you'd change the method you just outlined in this video if you were using a medium or dark roast? Would you change the 1:17 ratio to 1:16 or even 1:15 or would you use cooler water temps?
I might lower the water temp a bit for darker roasts, and of course the grind setting could change for any coffee/roast, but otherwise, I would keep the method the same.
@@jsiminski It's way finer than that. 23-28 click on comandante gives you a normal brew time of 2:15-3:15 minutes. This brew time is close to 5 minutes, you grind probably under 18 on comandante.
Would really be interested to see you do an extraction analysis of the espro bloom brewer. It has a flat bottom and a built in micron mesh. It seems the big selling point is a
@@scottrao5268 do you tend to use less than boiling or was this due to a certain coffee in particular? I thought generally speaking boiling was best for high quality light roasts.
Hey Scott, in my experience having used stainless steel as well as glass Kalita brewers, only the metal has a serious issue with getting blocked. If people are thinking of purchasing a Kalita, it's easier to buy glass or ceramic than needing to modify or use a mesh every time. Another question based on your brew ratio @ 24% extraction, this sounds like a stronger than typical coffee. Is that a preference?
it's a little stonger than i prefer, but i like the flavor of the high extraction. A higher brewing ratio would drop the TDS, but would make channeling more likely, so I stick with 17:1
I have always been curious about trying the Kalita with the decent pour over head, as the Kalita seems to offer the most consistency for pour overs, and the decent allows for so much control.
Hi Scott, when I do the bloom phase the water goes down really fast, what am I missing? I am talking about the Hario coz I've seen your other vid as well
I doubt Niche with its ground particle distribution profile, can deliver so high EY% without any astrigency. I can see also that your brew here, choked by the fines produced by this grinder.
No, he and Jonathan Gagne discussed this in their IG live thing, and they think it’s because the niche grinds up chaff, which doesn’t really affect anything other than making the brew look muddy. He also has compared the niche to his baratza forte and they can produce high extractions art similar times.
When you use the Stag brewer, do you do a finer grind to maintain the same extraction time as the wave? Because it has more holes, it seems to brew very fast. I'm coming to the stag brewer from a chemex and still struggling to dial it in. Just curious if you alter anything in your brewing process here for the wave when using the stag. Thanks!
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I usually fill up my kalita pretty full to keep the slurry temperature as high as possible, do you find it detrimental to fill the brewer completely?
Will add my recommendation as well. Coming from the "Hario V60 coffee scale", the AMIR is faster and more reliable. Main downsides are: you can't turn the backlight off, and no built-in timer.
Hey Scott, I'm gonna try this for Chemex. What temperature did you have your kettle at when you did the pour ? I usually have mine at 208. Also, what grind setting do you recommend on a Baratza Virtuoso + ?
Problem is each Niche Zero is different for those settings. So one persons's Niche Zero at 40 will be one micron measurement, someone else's will be another.
@@error.418 I personally wish that instructional videos would use a measurement tool such as the Brewler to give a comparable grind size ( for example in microns with the Brewler).
@@ronmcdowell1341 I agree, the Brewler is a great tool. That said, even with such a tool, viewers may still struggle to get the exact grind, and that's okay. Part of tweaking your brew is bracketing grind size until you find what works for you. Everyone's taste is different. But it's still nice to have an example to work from with a clear starting point, like showing your grinds next to the Brewler.
Thanks for this! Question: do you ever use the smaller, one cup Kalita? Does that give you acceptable results? Would you change anything about your technique for that size?
2 concerns here that I've had to overcome and makes a big difference. 1) try wetting the filter with the hot kettle water. The metal housing is a huge heat sink and pulls temperature away from the brew. 2) putting the kettle back onto the base will heat it back up, making a more consistent brew temperature. I like your technique, I'll give it a swirl.
Interesting using the screen at the bottom, I've noticed my rate drops significantly during the second half of the pour, so I bet mine is doing the same thing under the filter
Time between 1rst pour at 210 grs and 2nd pour at 340 grs ? After pouring to 340 grs, how long should it take so the water pass through the slurry ? Total brewing time ? Any feedback will be appreciated. Thanks.
I don't have a set time between the pours, i wait for the slurry to drop in half. typical total brew time is 4:30, but your ideal brew time is dependent on your grind quality and the dose used.
Hello!! thanks for the update :) Was wondering what are your opinions on this method for a smaller volume? I find myself brewing a smaller cup in the morning, around 250ml. So at 17:1 that would be roughly 15g to 250ml. Would you still recommend doing two separate pours ? or do you think a single pour would be preferable. Thank you!
Give it a try. I'm assuming he won't answer with confidence since he hasn't tried it, but in principle, it should be relatively similar, though heat retention may be different, and so on and so forth. I will definitely give it a try though~
You said you're using a Niche Zero grinder, but it looks like a different grounds basket? Can I ask if there's some reason or is that just what you had at the time or something? (Or am I just incorrect?)
@@scottrao5268 Hi Scott and thank you for the video. I have been making several V60's a day for about 3 years. I see you mention the Baratza Forte. I was considering the Forte BG to upgrade from my first grinder which is a Breville Smart Grinder Pro. Wondering what your thoughts are on the Forte BG, or other grinder for pour over use.
Is there any place where it is explained why having a vertical stream out of the spout is important? As well as splashless pouring height? Thanks a lot!) Great video, as always.)
To prevent clogging with Kalita I generally like to do something like 10-20% bypass (i.e. don't pour all the water on to the brew, add some afterwards). This generally gives a cleaner brew too.
@@harrisonp7118 just finish pouring early, and add the rest of water directly to the brew (i.e. if you're doing 20/340g, pour up to 300, and add last 40g directly)
The trend with pour over now is to maximize the sweets coffee and finding the balance between sweetness and acidity. Scott's recipe changes my conventional 1:15 method with a medium grind to 1:17 with a slightly finer grind. His method allows good, paced control on the slurry which is crucial with a finer grind. The swirl is still used as it evens the bed consistently. For those of you who may have been using my aforementioned technique - be prepared to play with your grinder with slightly finer settings. Do a taste comparison between one vs. the other. For me, depending on the beans, I find a ton more clarity, sweetness and a delicate finish with my cuppings BUT with a 1:15, with a slightly coarser grind - I find a bit less acidity, less sweetness but a bit more body. It's a welcome new recipe and technique in my arsenal. Thanks Scott.
As much anxiety as parts of this gave me, I can’t wait to try it. The only part I didn’t understand: why the pour height? I’ve always tried to pour from fairly low to reduce agitation.
There's a very interesting blog post by Coffee ad astra on this subject. The photo in the 'about me' is taken by Scott Rao, so they're probably acquaintances or even friends. You can find the blog post here: coffeeadastra.com/2020/05/23/the-physics-of-kettle-streams/
@@mjod we are indeed friends, and Jonathan is now probably the world's leading expert on the dynamics of filter brewing. everything he writes is worth reading.
Have you heard of/tried the Bloom pourover by Espro? I switched to it from the Kalita with amazing results. Incredibly good extractions in 1:30, I have no idea how it works so quickly, but my cups have been the best of any device I've used. Curious to see your measurements of extractions if you got your hands on one! The bottom is completely flat so there's almost no opportunity for channeling or clogging.
Its gonna depend a lot on your beans (and grinder). Time doesnt really matter too much it varies a lot depending on what kind of beans you have. I can get up to 1 minute variation in brewtime with the exact same recipe just by swapping out the beans.
4:50. Possibly too long for most grinders or most techniques, but with a good grinder and good technique, you should be able to near 5:00 without astringency or extra bitterness
Anyone trying this on Kinu grinder, what settings do yo use? Grind size looks extremely fine on the video. It should be around 2:0:0 or even finer. I tried at 2:9:0, but I have big chunks in the coffee on the video looks much finer.
17:1 ratio
20g of coffee
340g of water
1. BLOOM
3x coffee weight
20 x 3 = 60g water
Agitate either through stirring with a spoon or swirling the brewer
Wait 45 sec
2. FIRST POUR
Pour up to 210g
Try to pour as high as possible while avoiding a splashing sound and maintaining an even height
Move the kettle in concentric circles to ensure agitation and even coverage
Wait until the slurry has drained halfway before starting the next pour
3. SECOND POUR
Pour to the final target brew weight of 340g
Do a Rao Spin™ to ensure a flat bed and even extraction
Wait for the slurry to fully drain and enjoy your coffee!
This should be pinned to the top!
Top comment!!!
4:40 brew time
Lol why wasn't this pinned to the top. Thanks Notabot2001
I found that with natural process coffee. This methode makes it overxtract with dry aftertaste. At least from my xperience. Maybe coz of the coffee roasted ?
just grind coarser
Hi Scott! After finishing the brew, do you stir the coffee? I read somewhere that there are less soluble at the top than at the bottom. Thanks!
Different flavours are coming throughout the brew so you can't go wrong with a few stirs
Thanks for the guide. Im new to pour over coffee and this is very helpful. I have brewed 3 cups based on this. I have one problem. I get a slightly sour taste in my cup. I follow the general 3 minute rule. I have fresh coffee that I grind with a burr grinder and I weigh it all out. What could the issue be?
Google Coffee Compass, it's been a useful troubleshooting guide when I started brewing my own coffee.
Likely need to grind the coffee finer. Sour usually indicates under extraction. So in short you need to get more out of the coffee, thus a finer grind. (It could also potentially be to low a water temp but if you are using water that 195-205 that is not the issue).
Did you wet the filter with cold water? Warm? Hot? Does the filter need to be wetted with good water too?
I think wetting the filter is just so the coffee doesn't get any paper-y flavor. Just use tap to rinse the filter.
Might want to preheat as well if you have a light roast and ceramic cone
I use hot water, doesn't have to be special water, no.
@@scottrao5268 Thank you so much!
Would you do anything differently with V60?
not really.
form the top of my head, how about a brew grinder.
@@scottrao5268 I am getting excellent results with V60 using this method. Thanks!
SCOTT’S RECIPE
• Wet paper filter, add 20g coffee (Niche grind setting: 40)
• Prewet grounds 60g water.
Spin. Optionally, use spoon to gently dig into paper filter crevices as needed. Wait 45sec from initial pour, then
• 2nd pour up to 210g and wait for slurry to drain about halfway, then
• 3rd pour up to 340g (17:1 ratio).
Gently spin. Allow to drain.
That’s for 20 grams. I need to come up with percentage calculation for varying amounts of starting coffee.
@@AmericanUltras96 you can use varying amounts with this method, just keep a 1:17 ratio
@@AmericanUltras96 he did 3:1 bloom, about 60% total intended water in 2nd pour, 3rd pour completes. this is a pretty typical technique. you'll often see 2x to 3x for the bloom, then the same 60%/40% next 2 pours. the 45 second bloom is very typical, anything in the 30-45 second range is reasonable. often the next 2 pours are 30 seconds each, meaning final pour must be slower since less water.
Hmm... interesting pairing using the Niche with a Baratza grinds bin.
Genuinely love to see an esteemed coffee professional not using a scale that itself costs as much as a Bartza Encore
What's wrong with owning an acaia?
I thought the same haha. Am I wrong or he even used tap water to pre-wet the filter? Hahah only Scott is forgiven doing this
What he’s using is the GDEALER / Reflex I think. Brian Quan has reviewed it very favourably.
@@spellbinder6818 I've owned 2. Only bought the second because I immigrated. Extremely reliable, although it needs a bit of time when it comes to accurately measuring small doses, say under 15g
@@hybridce99 nothing just insanely overpriced and a poorly designed app
Thank you for the update! Not really critically important, but I can’t help but be curious, since you mentioned it, as to why you’re not using the V60 as much?
The fact Rao has the same 12 euro scale as me is fantastic! 👌
I love how much less serious this is than the og v60 tut
Did you know: when Scott Rao does the Rao Spin, is just called The Spin
I didn't. I know he can't pronounce 'niche', though.
@@martyhopkirk6826 in the American vernacular, the word "niche" is pronounced exactly how he pronounced it. In Britain, it is pronounced "neesh" but that's not correct in the US.
@@FleshyPink niche is a borrowed French word so that pronunciation is just wrong. In time, it becomes the right one because such is the way of spoken language... but it stays painful to hear lol
@@VictorChavesVVBC painful only to the pedant/prescriptivist, less so to the descriptivist
@@error.418 Fair enough. I'm not defending language stagnation, though. It's just that once you get used to a thing one way, change is uncomfortable.
In other words.. you’re saying the kalita dripper has been poorly designed all along! 😆
The stainless steel version of Kalita Wave is pretty much shitty. But it is a full different story with the Tsubame version tho.
Great video. I usually use the James Hoffman technique, which is not dissimilar. You do 2 pours, one up to about 60% of the water, then the next 40% in a second pour. James does one pour, but adapts the flow rate so that the first 60% take 30s to pour, and the next 40% also take 30s to pour. What would you say is the theoretical difference between your technique (2 pours, same flow rate), and his (1 pour, 2 flow rates)? Thanks!
The higher pour with this method would cause more agitation (ideally through deeper turbulence through the coffee bed), but also with letting the water drain a bit before the last pour, you'd get more extraction vs maintaining a higher slurry temp with Hoffman's.
What would be the optimal grind size for comandante using your method?
He said 40 on the niche
@@patrickrachford7112 Is 40 on the niche the same as 40 on comandante?
@@bartoszkleszcz5420 No. And annoyingly 40 on one Niche is not 40 on another, they're inconsistent according to the user forums. Amazing grinder, but not made for sharing grind settings.
Is the grind size the same as any other technique (so let's say medium)? Cause the drowdown really looked slow to me but I've only worked with V60 so far
I feel stupid that I just realized why I always get that splashy sound when I pour a Chemex vs a v60. The Chemex especially with the square filters forces you to pour from much higher
Asser from “The coffee chronicler” talks about the same mod which includes using a spreader and also drilling larger holes for faster flow rate on a kalita wave ...According to Asser stainless kalita are the slowest and takes 53 seconds for 500 ml to drain as supposed to 30 plus seconds in ceramic/ glass ....
Thanks for the mention, Dan. You're right about the ceramic one being faster. Instead of a tea strainer I use the Flair Pro dispersion screen which fits perfectly in the bottom of the dripper 👍
@@coffeechronicler Yeah Asser, Scott should know this
What’s a recommended grind setting for the Baratza Forte?
I pick up the filter with the Hario V60 to help it drain faster after rinsing the filters. Otherwise, I notice there is some suction created from the water adhesion can slow down the drain.
Depending on how the filter sits, it will drain differently.
I was following your other technique with my V60 the whole summer as I started my coffee journey, 5 days ago I wanted to try the Kalita and you just uploaded a new technique with it. Amazing.
I collect all of your book. You are my first coffee teacher. 🙏🙏🙏🇲🇲🇲🇲 Myanmar
Lol the scale he uses.. no need expensive scale for best pourouver taste
I use the same cheap scale as scott use :)
agreed, it is only 3 dollar scale that is amazingly used by world champion
@@yeronand which scale is that?
Then it is confirmed, there is so much issue with the stainless steel version of Kalita Wave. You should replace it with the ceramic version. Coffee Chronicler said that the ceramic version gives much better result although not a portable device.
I'm sure the ceramic is better, but I already have the metal one (and many other brewers) and I like stuff that i can't break :0. Kalita is rarely my go-to brewer. thanks
@@scottrao5268 what is your go to brewer?
If you were to scale up to two servings, around 600g total, would you still do 2 pours if possible? Or split the brew into additional pours of around ~150g each?
Two pours if possible, but 600g is a pretty big batch for the wave
Do you keep heating your kettle between pulse pours or do you let the kettle temperature fall?
If there's a decent amount of water in it, it should only drop a couple degrees. Wouldn't make much of a difference unless it's dropping 5+ in most cases, but maybe that would work with certain coffees. Could always do a side by side. I'd say it's better to keep it steady to eliminate that variable at first.
Thanks Scott, gonna spin my Chemex now
Monday's are much better with this kind of thing :)
Hi Scott.
What would be a good starting point grind size for a Comandante grinder?
Imo, 24-26 for v60
I'd suggest closer to 20 for a method like this
would be fun to hear what you see the key differences between the former and current versions - a fan of the former version - using it reliably for - ever - this one has wet and two pours rather than one. Pour is still constant height. It seems it's gone from 360 to 340 as well? is that coffee type specific? or your generic ratio now? THANK YOU
4 minute 50 secs for extraction? Isn't it little bit long??
depends on your dose, grind quality, and pouring method. It's definitely too long for some people and some equipment.
During the pre-wet process, when you're using the spoon to ensure that all the grounds are getting wet ... Are you digging the spoon right into coffee grounds and stirring it a bit? I'm new to coffee and trying to refine my technique :) Thanks for the great video!
I don't find much difference in how much you dig. It creates agitation but the point is to wet all the grounds.
Swirling is better than stirring, tbh
Hi Scott! I have been using your (now old) V60 technique for quite some time now. Thanks for this! Just a question, what would the difference be between the old method's single main pour, with this two pour method? What I found attractive to that single pour method was its ease of replication, and the fact that (correct me if I'm wrong) the water weight allows for a faster drawdown and finer grind.
the new method increases extraction at the expense of some slurry temperature.
@@scottrao5268 Thanks! Will try it on the V60 :)
Thanks for the update! I always enjoy the content you upload.
thanks :)
Thank you...keeping us new COVID coffee-heads in mind.
So great to see this update. I like how simple your techniques are-but there's a lot of subtlety in your simplicity! I've been using your updated method for the past few months now (after using your original V60 method for years), and I always have huge bubbles both during the pre-wet and throughout brewing. Using a gooseneck kettle and trying to move in concentric circles. Any chance you could offer up some tips for a more even extraction?
What setting do you guys with Porlex Mini Hand Grinders use? How many clicks?
I usually use it between 8 and 9 (I believe it has 18 clicks)
Can you scale down this recipe?
Hi Scott, thanks for the video! Question: You mention that you do a 45 second bloom pour to pour, but your bloom starts at 1:35 and next pour starts at about 2:40 for a bloom of a minute and 5 seconds. Just curious if I’m missing something?
I take the "do as I say, not as I do" method when watching demo videos like this.
@@patrickhopkins5626 I wasn't timing it because my phone is my only timer and is also my video camera. Indeed, in this case, do as I say, not as i do.
Scott Rao hey Scott. Even though you didn’t use a timer here, what are your typical brew times for quantities like this?
Has anyone tried to grind the coffee in the grinder with boiling water? 🤔
I cut some discs out of .4mm wire mesh that I bought on Amazon and fastened it to the bottom of my flat bottom drippers with a few tiny dabs of food grade silicon. 10 months later and they're all still firmly connected.
That's an insane amount of fines. I'd probably throw my ghost burr grinder away if it did that.
Ghost burr squad
it's cool, i'd love the analysis, that the important is the technique and it's very good tutorial, thank you
Scott- you said a 40 on the niche grinder, which from looking seems on the coarser side, do I understand that correctly? I have a baratza encore and am trying to use your technique as close as possible for starters
Also, great video and thanks for making it
It's prety fine
It's medium fine. I started with a 15 on my Encore with M2 upgrade. I could probably take it a little finer as well ( just did my first attempt).
I don't know what the Encore equivalent would be.
Still learning pour over after decades on a French press and have the baratza encore as well. Started at 10, am up to 12 now but still not happy with the results so thinking I may need to go coarser now (to complicate things I’m using a medium roast my wife got me for Xmas when I usually drink light roasts).
Finding pour over much less forgiving than a French press, so many factors that can take the brew off course, but enjoying the learning process and looking forward to the rewards when I get it all dialled in right.
What different characteristics would using 2 VS 3 pours after the bloom have?
fewer pours = hotter slurry but slightly lower extraction . tradeoffs.
Awesome tip on the mesh! I'm curious, what, if anything you'd change for a larger amount of coffee, say 500g of water to 29g ground coffee?
I wouldn't brew that much in a Kalita!
@@scottrao5268 Thanks Scott! Certainly not the answer I was expecting... I'd be curious why if you're willing to share (bed depth?). Maybe it's time to dust off the Chemex lol!!
Awesome, really useful to get your input on the Kalita especially and thanks for the mesh tip. Have you experimented with covering the Kalita after final pour to retain heat in the slurry? I've been testing this out but haven't done a side-by-side comparison brew yet.
I've done it, but it seems to offer marginal benefit. Still, it can't hurt
@@scottrao5268 good to know, thanks!
Anybody can recommend grind size on commandante? Also, any perspective on pros/cons of this method vs 4:6 method?
Would love to know others' opinions too. With mine, I am usually around 21-23 clicks
@@Philosophaster I also tried Comandante 21 (Origami S + Wave 155 filter) and it turned out pretty good. I liked that he doesn’t focus on timing but rather tasting to adjust. I used to focus and adjust based on timing which always resulted in frustration. My current challenge is this: I get a very nice, transparent and fruity cup, but at the end of it there is a bad harshness can be tasted at roof of my mouth. It’s not regular bitterness so that I can fix it by grinding coarser. Coffee tastes amazing but this harshness kills me. Any idea how to fix it?
@@MinimalUnbox maybe change the water, or the temperature of the extraction.
@@MinimalUnbox when have you cleaned your grinder last time?
My biggest breakthrough with a persistent bitterness I couldn't fix was cleaning my grinder.
@@MinimalUnbox It sounds like you might be describing a dry finish? Coffee will have a dry or soapy finish when it is under extracted. Make sure you're using hot enough water, ideally right off the boil assuming you're not using dark roast. Poor quality water will also cause poor extraction. I was using pure RO water for years but could never make light roasts taste good without the dry/soapy finish until I started remineralizing my pure water, which increased extraction.
Thanks for updating Scott! I have been following your V60 method for some time now and it produces great coffee, but I'm wondering if you'd change the method you just outlined in this video if you were using a medium or dark roast? Would you change the 1:17 ratio to 1:16 or even 1:15 or would you use cooler water temps?
I might lower the water temp a bit for darker roasts, and of course the grind setting could change for any coffee/roast, but otherwise, I would keep the method the same.
@@scottrao5268 thanks for the reply!
Why not the smaller Kalita - 155 - with only 20 grams?
So he uses 185 ?
That is a good hack I can use.
Thank you for the tip.
Hey Scott! Any idea what Comandante grind setting would work best for this method? Not sure if you've played around with it.
I find 23-28 clicks to work best
@@jsiminski It's way finer than that. 23-28 click on comandante gives you a normal brew time of 2:15-3:15 minutes. This brew time is close to 5 minutes, you grind probably under 18 on comandante.
@@deenman60 You must be right, I thought it went quite faster
It looks like it’s about 16 to 18 clicks
Is this 155 or 185?
185. Watch other youtube videos with the 155. You will see it's much smaller.
Would really be interested to see you do an extraction analysis of the espro bloom brewer. It has a flat bottom and a built in micron mesh. It seems the big selling point is a
I am curious, but I'm honestly tired of buying various coffee gear that I use for a day and then shelve forever because it's not so great.
I decided to buy an Espro after your comment and someone else's here. I'm looking forward to trying it, thanks
Love the updates, can you tell me what water temperature you were using?
97c/207f
@@scottrao5268 do you tend to use less than boiling or was this due to a certain coffee in particular? I thought generally speaking boiling was best for high quality light roasts.
Hey Scott, in my experience having used stainless steel as well as glass Kalita brewers, only the metal has a serious issue with getting blocked. If people are thinking of purchasing a Kalita, it's easier to buy glass or ceramic than needing to modify or use a mesh every time.
Another question based on your brew ratio @ 24% extraction, this sounds like a stronger than typical coffee. Is that a preference?
it's a little stonger than i prefer, but i like the flavor of the high extraction. A higher brewing ratio would drop the TDS, but would make channeling more likely, so I stick with 17:1
Shit I was wrong lol it’s 340 for 20 ffs got watery coffee cuz I was in a hurry
It's 17:1, I don't know where you did the 610 number from
@@MrMinusguy if you add up all the water together it’s 610!
Or I misunderstood? 60 prewet 210 first pour 340 second?
Yeap I am an idiot, misunderstood/misheard
LMAOO
I have always been curious about trying the Kalita with the decent pour over head, as the Kalita seems to offer the most consistency for pour overs, and the decent allows for so much control.
Hi Scott, when I do the bloom phase the water goes down really fast, what am I missing? I am talking about the Hario coz I've seen your other vid as well
Have you tried a finer grind?
What grind setting would recommend for a fellow ode with gen 1 burrs?
Thank you for your update Scott!
I love the explanations and details you layout!
You ever bringing back the Q&A Coffee Podcast?
I doubt Niche with its ground particle distribution profile, can deliver so high EY% without any astrigency. I can see also that your brew here, choked by the fines produced by this grinder.
No, he and Jonathan Gagne discussed this in their IG live thing, and they think it’s because the niche grinds up chaff, which doesn’t really affect anything other than making the brew look muddy. He also has compared the niche to his baratza forte and they can produce high extractions art similar times.
@@BariSaxGod25 IO don't doubt the numbers. I doubt the taste. I mentioned astrigency
@@KostasSiderisBarista hater
Bro it's Scott Rao. This man shaped the speciality coffee industry into what it is today. You don't doubt Scott Rao.
@@nadmanganiankutasu that was said for David Sommer.... Look where we are now!
When you use the Stag brewer, do you do a finer grind to maintain the same extraction time as the wave? Because it has more holes, it seems to brew very fast. I'm coming to the stag brewer from a chemex and still struggling to dial it in. Just curious if you alter anything in your brewing process here for the wave when using the stag. Thanks!
I usually fill up my kalita pretty full to keep the slurry temperature as high as possible, do you find it detrimental to fill the brewer completely?
Interested to know, what scale is being used in the video?
Google "AMIR coffee scale" and you'll find it on Amazon.
@@patrickhopkins5626 thanks!
Will add my recommendation as well. Coming from the "Hario V60 coffee scale", the AMIR is faster and more reliable. Main downsides are: you can't turn the backlight off, and no built-in timer.
love it, scott!
which scale is that?
I don't know; i got it for $10 on amazon years ago and it has no brand name on it. But it was $10 well spent!
Thanks for the update. Did you already test the new ESPRO Bloom Filter? I would appreciate your comment on it. Thanks
I have not
Hey Scott, I'm gonna try this for Chemex. What temperature did you have your kettle at when you did the pour ? I usually have mine at 208. Also, what grind setting do you recommend on a Baratza Virtuoso + ?
Good timing, I've just received a new brewer (Espro Bloom) and have been looking to improve my technique. Thanks Scott
I think Scott should try that brewer too
Hi Scott,
Thanks for the lovely video.
I read earlier that the Kalita is not your go to coffee maker, curious to hear what is :)
Thanks for the video! I'm just starting with the V60 and this is just what I needed!
The temperature is as in the previous technique - about 97-98 C°, right?
yes
Does anyone know approximately how many microns a 40 on the Niche translates to? Just curious! (Thanks in advance!)
Problem is each Niche Zero is different for those settings. So one persons's Niche Zero at 40 will be one micron measurement, someone else's will be another.
@@error.418 I personally wish that instructional videos would use a measurement tool such as the Brewler to give a comparable grind size ( for example in microns with the Brewler).
@@ronmcdowell1341 I agree, the Brewler is a great tool. That said, even with such a tool, viewers may still struggle to get the exact grind, and that's okay. Part of tweaking your brew is bracketing grind size until you find what works for you. Everyone's taste is different. But it's still nice to have an example to work from with a clear starting point, like showing your grinds next to the Brewler.
did you use the rao perger water profile?
Have you found a downside to fairly vigorous agitation at the time of blooming? Or do you simply find this method more consistent.
It's more consistent, but can lead to choking/clogging if you overdo it.
i guess i gotta grab me a mesh filter now!
Thanks for this! Question: do you ever use the smaller, one cup Kalita? Does that give you acceptable results? Would you change anything about your technique for that size?
I have never used it, sorry
Scott Rao thanks!
Thank you very much!
2 concerns here that I've had to overcome and makes a big difference. 1) try wetting the filter with the hot kettle water. The metal housing is a huge heat sink and pulls temperature away from the brew. 2) putting the kettle back onto the base will heat it back up, making a more consistent brew temperature. I like your technique, I'll give it a swirl.
I've recently taken to putting the brewer on top of the kettle in place of the kettle lid while the kettle heats. Makes the brewer much hotter
Interesting using the screen at the bottom, I've noticed my rate drops significantly during the second half of the pour, so I bet mine is doing the same thing under the filter
Great! But how did Scott figure it out tho?
Time between 1rst pour at 210 grs and 2nd pour at 340 grs ?
After pouring to 340 grs, how long should it take so the water pass through the slurry ? Total brewing time ?
Any feedback will be appreciated.
Thanks.
he's not cutting the videos, so there's all your answer
I don't have a set time between the pours, i wait for the slurry to drop in half. typical total brew time is 4:30, but your ideal brew time is dependent on your grind quality and the dose used.
Hello!! thanks for the update :)
Was wondering what are your opinions on this method for a smaller volume? I find myself brewing a smaller cup in the morning, around 250ml. So at 17:1 that would be roughly 15g to 250ml.
Would you still recommend doing two separate pours ? or do you think a single pour would be preferable. Thank you!
Give it a try. I'm assuming he won't answer with confidence since he hasn't tried it, but in principle, it should be relatively similar, though heat retention may be different, and so on and so forth. I will definitely give it a try though~
It will work fine with 15/250, same number of pours, etc. I do that once in a while.
Thanks Scott for the helpful vid. Would your current recommendations for a Chemex brew differ greatly from this?
Scott's recommendation for a chemex would probably be to use it as a vase ;)
@@maaaatt Ooof. It is a really pretty vase tho ngl
You said you're using a Niche Zero grinder, but it looks like a different grounds basket? Can I ask if there's some reason or is that just what you had at the time or something? (Or am I just incorrect?)
it's an anti-static bin from my Baratza Forte. I always grind into that.
@@scottrao5268 Hi Scott and thank you for the video. I have been making several V60's a day for about 3 years. I see you mention the Baratza Forte. I was considering the Forte BG to upgrade from my first grinder which is a Breville Smart Grinder Pro. Wondering what your thoughts are on the Forte BG, or other grinder for pour over use.
Is there any place where it is explained why having a vertical stream out of the spout is important? As well as splashless pouring height?
Thanks a lot!) Great video, as always.)
Go to the "coffeeadastra " blog. Jonathan Gagné explains it beautifully
@@arna437 thanks!)
Thanks for the video! Why don't you spin after the first pour?
While a spin there would probably decrease channeling, it will also dramatically slow the rate of drawdown.
Thanks for the quick reply! I love your content on TH-cam, Instagram, Blog, etc. Keep up the great work!
To prevent clogging with Kalita I generally like to do something like 10-20% bypass (i.e. don't pour all the water on to the brew, add some afterwards). This generally gives a cleaner brew too.
Can Gencer what do you mean by this? I also have this problem with my metal 185
@@harrisonp7118 just finish pouring early, and add the rest of water directly to the brew (i.e. if you're doing 20/340g, pour up to 300, and add last 40g directly)
thanks for the update!
The trend with pour over now is to maximize the sweets coffee and finding the balance between sweetness and acidity. Scott's recipe changes my conventional 1:15 method with a medium grind to 1:17 with a slightly finer grind. His method allows good, paced control on the slurry which is crucial with a finer grind. The swirl is still used as it evens the bed consistently.
For those of you who may have been using my aforementioned technique - be prepared to play with your grinder with slightly finer settings. Do a taste comparison between one vs. the other. For me, depending on the beans, I find a ton more clarity, sweetness and a delicate finish with my cuppings BUT with a 1:15, with a slightly coarser grind - I find a bit less acidity, less sweetness but a bit more body. It's a welcome new recipe and technique in my arsenal. Thanks Scott.
Just a quick question; that’s a WAVE 155, is it?
(I’m guessing that’s a 185...)
it's a 185
@@scottrao5268 Can this recipe be done with a Kalita 155 as well?
Any chance this will work out for a hario nel pot? Or is that just too different?
I don't know what the "nel pot" is.
I think they mean the Hario Woodneck with cloth filter?
As much anxiety as parts of this gave me, I can’t wait to try it. The only part I didn’t understand: why the pour height? I’ve always tried to pour from fairly low to reduce agitation.
agitation increases extraction which rao seems to be going for here
There's a very interesting blog post by Coffee ad astra on this subject. The photo in the 'about me' is taken by Scott Rao, so they're probably acquaintances or even friends.
You can find the blog post here: coffeeadastra.com/2020/05/23/the-physics-of-kettle-streams/
@@mjod we are indeed friends, and Jonathan is now probably the world's leading expert on the dynamics of filter brewing. everything he writes is worth reading.
Have you heard of/tried the Bloom pourover by Espro? I switched to it from the Kalita with amazing results. Incredibly good extractions in 1:30, I have no idea how it works so quickly, but my cups have been the best of any device I've used. Curious to see your measurements of extractions if you got your hands on one! The bottom is completely flat so there's almost no opportunity for channeling or clogging.
I have not. Though I'm not sure why a flat bottom would prevent channeling?
I decided to buy an Espro after your comment and someone else's here. I'm looking forward to trying it, thanks
@@scottrao5268 What are your thoughts on the Espro after a few months of usage?
Wow such even grind! It's amazing!
That has to be his grinder!
Not my Encore
@@margot6041 yeah, Niche Zero
4:30-ish pour (to draw down) time?
That seems a bit slow to me (I aim for around 3:30-ish). What time do you aim for??
1:20 I get dry & bitter notes above 2:00
It depends on your grinder. Some coffees taste good at 4 and even 5 with good grinders.
@@armLocalhost I sift out dust/fines. So I dont think its about the grind. Either I love underextracted coffees, or the roast here is pretty bad.
Its gonna depend a lot on your beans (and grinder). Time doesnt really matter too much it varies a lot depending on what kind of beans you have. I can get up to 1 minute variation in brewtime with the exact same recipe just by swapping out the beans.
Just tried it today 1:17 ratio. Used 16.5g with 280g water and it tasted wonderful with last drops dripping at around 3:30. Second pour was 170g.
ty!
Was this a 5:40 sec brew time??
4:50. Possibly too long for most grinders or most techniques, but with a good grinder and good technique, you should be able to near 5:00 without astringency or extra bitterness
Anyone trying this on Kinu grinder, what settings do yo use? Grind size looks extremely fine on the video. It should be around 2:0:0 or even finer. I tried at 2:9:0, but I have big chunks in the coffee on the video looks much finer.
I don't have a kinu but I can tell you the grind is fairly fine
Hmmm I Grind for V60 around 4.0
@@sethjack952 Right where I'm at as well on an m47p.