What an elegant summary. Convinced me to start with a lever before dropping more coin on the Decent, though I remain very intrigued. Love love love the commitment to solving a problem, rather than just selling a potential solution.
Same, I'm a lever guy too. The Decent is my next step on my journey but currently I have a La Pavoni modded with the pressure profiling kit and Flairs temperature sticker and that is a game changer.
A Decent machine is way out of my budget, but I really love watching through the videos on this channel. I love that you aren't bad mouthing the Breville stuff, I'm using a Duo Temp Pro with their Smart Grinder, and with a bit of attention to my puck preparation (using my home made WDT tool) I feel like I can get results I'm proud of. I love what Decent is doing though, and if I was ever in a position to afford one, I'd jump on it in a heartbeat.
Great video! I usually order pure espressos at Cafés and you can tell that not having the pressure variation ruins some coffees and you don’t get those notes typical from light roasts. Not ready to upgrade my entry level machine yet, but instead of upgrading to a La Marzocco mini or similar machine, I will definitely choose the Decent. The more I learn about it, the more excited I get. I love the company transparency and the way your treat your customers (community might be the best word to describe it). Keep up the good work!
It sounds like a fantastic machine. I have a Breville machine, and I'm pulling my shots around one o clock. I understand that is pretty high pressure, but my lattes are not too bad. I would love to get a La Pavoni Europiccola or one of these someday.
Yep I couldn't agree more. Although I don't have a decent espresso machine, I'm gradually learning how important good data is when analysing a shot but the decent is so good at that, I'd probably be very overwhelmed but very happy at the same time.
I’ve actually been able to pull single origin light roast pretty well on my Breville touch , although this explanation opens a new chapter of recipe making….
John ‘Hurrah’ You are absolutely have the right attitude as the owner of Decrnt…Your not bashing other espresso machines and their owners…. Please try to share your attitude to your Decent brethren. I’m so tired of their overzealous/ aggressive attitude in other forums and TH-cam promotions…
I really enjoy watching your videos and hope to own a Decent in the near future! The amount of information, communication, and feedback provided is unmatched when compared to other manufacturers. Once I pass my CPA exams next spring I’m going to upgrade from my Rancilio Silvia to a DEPRO1. # endgamesetup
If you're getting your CPA degree can I HUGELY recommend this book? www.basicbooks.com/titles/jacob-soll/the-reckoning/9780465031528/ -- it'll change your view of your profession forever, and will make you proud to be an accountant! So much of what Decent does in terms of transparency and accountability, is in that book.
I have been using my Breville Infuser for about a year, and I can confirm from my experience that what Mr. Decent is saying about the Breville shot profile is how it seems to go. I end up compensating for it with a bunch of tattoos and a loud, bright orange Corvette.....er, um, scratch that...I mean by dialing around 7-9 grind on my Baratza Sette and reducing my shot time from first drip to a max of 20 seconds. I no longer even let the shot turn blond.....who says they have more fun? Anyway, Mr. Decent you are the Elon Musk of espresso, and I am saving my pennies to one day buy one of your machines.
7:38 a contradictio in terminis, Caramel flavour is a characteristic of both darker and lighter roasts? Either way would love to own a decent they seem incredible.
Can a traditional or vintage lever machine produce good coffee from a light roasted beans ? What is that the things Decent can do and while lever machine cannot ? Thank you !!
A lever can do a lot, where as a traditional machine only does 9 bar (typically) though some newer machines like the Bianca and the Mina add flow control. Download the Decent app decentespresso.com/downloads and take a look at the profiles, for an idea of what the Decent can do. As to what those other models do, you should ask a forum such as www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/ about them, as it's "not cool" for me to describe competing machines.
So, for someone who has owned a Breville Dual Boiler for a few years and now wants to get to the next level, which machine would give me the best value and longevity? A lever machine like the Londinium or Decent? thanks!
With darker roast we have found a lot of success with temperature declines, which enables you to push your extractions to be more balance. With higher quality dark roast you can even push the ratio a bit further.
That is a great explanation and I know I will progress with my shot skills and probably end up with a decent machine (as I love the science of pulling shots and the control given is unmatched). Wish that more was taught on how to pull the best possible shots on a Breville or othern 9 bar machine. Owning a touch I can say that you can pull a shot with great ratio, prep properly, heat portafilter / group head, no real channeling is visible and all you pull out of the beans is sour flavor or bitter flavor 😢. Lastly, I have seen youtube shots that go way off the ratio wanted, channeling or blonding happens, no way it tastes good.
When you feel like you want full control of your extractions with data feedback to learn from come and join the Decent Family. The forum is the place to ask, share and be a part of other DE1 users journeys.
Hi! I have a question. As the coffee beans are being washed out, the flow increases while the pressure is at 9bar flat, and we don't want that. Could we not keep the flow constant and let the pressure decrease naturally, to get the same good results? kind regards :-)
If that is the flow curve you are aiming for from taste, then yes you can achieve this with a fast pressure decline. However we can achieve better results and flavors by not restricting the flow too much creating a curve that is more of a steady climb towards a plateau.
As the coffee dissolves / erodes doesn't the actual brew pressure get reduced even if the machine is trying to do 9 bars? It just be might be a small amount like 9 bar to 8 though.
No. A 9 bar machine will increase the water flow rate, to maintain 9 bar. That's what a 9 bar machine literally means. That's why flow increases automatically on those machines as the shot progresses.
@@decentespresso Does it? I always thought most espresso machines like e61 types (without flow control mod) have a constant set flow rate they just release or reroute extra pressure or the extra flow somewhere once pressure exceeds the max pressure setting on the rotary pump or OPV (over pressure valve)? Not sure how it works exactly but I thought that's basically what the OPV does ?
@@BensCoffeeRants they have a flow constrictor which sets a maximum flow rate, but that's a max. The OPV does what you think it does -- it reroutes pressure over 9 bar elsewhere, but that keeps 9 bar on the puck.
I’ve been using a la pavoni for a few years now, but the second I can get my hands on a decent, I will. I have to say though, that la pavonis are fantastic. Lever machines only get better the more you use them. I remember in the beginning having buyer’s remorse, since I wasn’t too happy with the espresso coming out. Now after using it for years and having learned so much more about espresso, I can pull shots better than most good cafes. So if you have a lever machine and are not consistently pulling excellent shots, trust me, it’s not the machine. It’s pretty funny actually that the best espresso machine is really just trying to mimic 60 year old technology.
Why change something that already works great. We just try to make it more accessible without the years of practise. Utilising technology to help while you hone your skills and a community to join as part of your journey.
The Breville can pressure profile manually on the fly. (Very easy mod) My question is if the Breville and Decent both do the same profile, will there be a difference in taste ? Lance Hedrick eluded in one of his videos that the taste is not the same.
Hi, the taste will indeed be different, even if the recipe is the same. We can account for this mainly due to the dimensions within the grouphead and also the sensor placement and accuracy. While the grouphead you may see slight differences the accuracy of the sensors is where the DE1 will shine. This increased accuracy helps with your repeatability and end result.
We're of course going to recommend our machine, which for your case, would be the DE1PRO. If you want recommendations of other brands, don't ask a vendor :D
FWIW you can easily modify the BDB to have a lever profile and you can control it 100% on the fly (via paddle mod) which you can not do on the Decent (unless you have the new group head controller)... So if that's what you are buying the Decent for you can easily save the money and mod the BDB to do the same (Slayer and GS3 MP style pressure and flow profiling). Not saying anything against the Decent as I have used it and enjoy it, but paralysis analysis syndrome is real.
I like that mod, it's cool. You still won't have any idea what flow rate you're actually getting (just like all other manual flow controllers), so repeatability of good shots will take a little bit of skill.
@@eltakeiteasy i think you'll be paying for convenience and have great consistency shot after shot, day after day which bdb cannot do. you need to keep an eye on the bdb and reduce pressire for the ramp at the end.
Lever is the best choice for medium dark to dark roasted coffee. Other profiles give better results with medium to ultralight. See decentespresso.com/mothers -john
That's an insult, Steve jobs was just a marketing guy, he was also a control freak who loved bossing people around, and treated his employees and others in his life like pawns. So, hopefully he's a better person. Decent dude seems like a decent dude :D
@@BensCoffeeRants we should ask John if he has ever had that comparison 😂. Steve Jobs was more than a marketer. I think he once said he worked at Hewlett-Packard when he was 12 because he asked for parts to build a frequency counter and then they gave him parts and then later offered him a job. He has a lot of history working with computers and curating the best people around him. He does seem to have been a control freak but he also knew what he wanted and he could get the best work out of people.
For the people complaining that they can't afford a Decent machine are the very same people who buy a new $1500 iPhone each year, drive expensive cars, eat out at restaurants, go to the movies, have several paid streaming services, go to the barbers, shop at designer stores and pay high rent to their landlord..
The internet has made shot making impossible. One needs twenty different accessories to perform a shot. It’s ridiculous. These expresso machines are as expensive as cars. If I’m going to spend $4000 on an expresso machine I better be making money from it.
Well.... funny you mentioned that! There is more value in an espresso machine as it CAN make you money. A car wont and will normally depreciate in its value. The accessories are there to help achieve café quality shots but of course if you have honed your skills you will find you can achieve similar results just with the DE1, grinder, scales and a tamper alone.
@@adrianmichaelsmith Good to hear, but I also stay away from Google software for security and privacy reasons. Heck, the Google TH-cam videos I watch are used to determine what news articles I see in Apple News, and they are not even on the same accounts or platform.
![[ไฮไลต์] แบดมินตันชาย วิว กุลวุฒิ (ไทย) vs LEE Zii Jia (มาเลเซีย) รอบรองชนะเลิศ | โอลิมปิก 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mvBiEAqlssw/mqdefault.jpg)
I was one of those newbs that the user forum helped to get up to speed. It is a very valuable resource.
What an elegant summary. Convinced me to start with a lever before dropping more coin on the Decent, though I remain very intrigued. Love love love the commitment to solving a problem, rather than just selling a potential solution.
Great to hear you enjoyed this!
This is an incredibly useful video. And it makes me appreciate my lever machine even more.
Mission accomplished!
Same, I'm a lever guy too. The Decent is my next step on my journey but currently I have a La Pavoni modded with the pressure profiling kit and Flairs temperature sticker and that is a game changer.
@@Assenayo Check out the new Odyssey Argos if you haven't already. Looks like a very promising lever.
A Decent machine is way out of my budget, but I really love watching through the videos on this channel. I love that you aren't bad mouthing the Breville stuff, I'm using a Duo Temp Pro with their Smart Grinder, and with a bit of attention to my puck preparation (using my home made WDT tool) I feel like I can get results I'm proud of. I love what Decent is doing though, and if I was ever in a position to afford one, I'd jump on it in a heartbeat.
I am so freaking excited to get my DE1 in a few weeks 😻
Fantastic explanation!
Great video! I usually order pure espressos at Cafés and you can tell that not having the pressure variation ruins some coffees and you don’t get those notes typical from light roasts.
Not ready to upgrade my entry level machine yet, but instead of upgrading to a La Marzocco mini or similar machine, I will definitely choose the Decent. The more I learn about it, the more excited I get. I love the company transparency and the way your treat your customers (community might be the best word to describe it).
Keep up the good work!
fantastic!
It sounds like a fantastic machine. I have a Breville machine, and I'm pulling my shots around one o clock. I understand that is pretty high pressure, but my lattes are not too bad. I would love to get a La Pavoni Europiccola or one of these someday.
Yep I couldn't agree more. Although I don't have a decent espresso machine, I'm gradually learning how important good data is when analysing a shot but the decent is so good at that, I'd probably be very overwhelmed but very happy at the same time.
I’ve actually been able to pull single origin light roast pretty well on my Breville touch , although this explanation opens a new chapter of recipe making….
John ‘Hurrah’ You are absolutely have the right attitude as the owner of Decrnt…Your not bashing other espresso machines and their owners…. Please try to share your attitude to your Decent brethren. I’m so tired of their overzealous/ aggressive attitude in other forums and TH-cam promotions…
I really enjoy watching your videos and hope to own a Decent in the near future! The amount of information, communication, and feedback provided is unmatched when compared to other manufacturers. Once I pass my CPA exams next spring I’m going to upgrade from my Rancilio Silvia to a DEPRO1. # endgamesetup
If you're getting your CPA degree can I HUGELY recommend this book? www.basicbooks.com/titles/jacob-soll/the-reckoning/9780465031528/ -- it'll change your view of your profession forever, and will make you proud to be an accountant! So much of what Decent does in terms of transparency and accountability, is in that book.
Decent Espresso Machines Thank you for the book recommendation, I will definitely check it out😊
I have been using my Breville Infuser for about a year, and I can confirm from my experience that what Mr. Decent is saying about the Breville shot profile is how it seems to go. I end up compensating for it with a bunch of tattoos and a loud, bright orange Corvette.....er, um, scratch that...I mean by dialing around 7-9 grind on my Baratza Sette and reducing my shot time from first drip to a max of 20 seconds. I no longer even let the shot turn blond.....who says they have more fun? Anyway, Mr. Decent you are the Elon Musk of espresso, and I am saving my pennies to one day buy one of your machines.
the decent looks sooooo awesome, totally getting one soon. Random question, the barista cart behind you, is that a custom built thing ?
It's a mix of the IKEA BROR cart and our custom stuff. More info here: decentespresso.com/coffeecart and videos...
7:38 a contradictio in terminis, Caramel flavour is a characteristic of both darker and lighter roasts? Either way would love to own a decent they seem incredible.
Can a traditional or vintage lever machine produce good coffee from a light roasted beans ? What is that the things Decent can do and while lever machine cannot ? Thank you !!
A lever can do a lot, where as a traditional machine only does 9 bar (typically) though some newer machines like the Bianca and the Mina add flow control. Download the Decent app decentespresso.com/downloads and take a look at the profiles, for an idea of what the Decent can do. As to what those other models do, you should ask a forum such as www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/ about them, as it's "not cool" for me to describe competing machines.
So, for someone who has owned a Breville Dual Boiler for a few years and now wants to get to the next level, which machine would give me the best value and longevity? A lever machine like the Londinium or Decent? thanks!
Decent for sure
You discussed Light Roasts, how does the Decent do with Dark or Medium roasts... and why.
With darker roast we have found a lot of success with temperature declines, which enables you to push your extractions to be more balance. With higher quality dark roast you can even push the ratio a bit further.
It would be the perfect machine if you would add a steam boiler or find a way to steam a pull a shot on the same time.
That is a great explanation and I know I will progress with my shot skills and probably end up with a decent machine (as I love the science of pulling shots and the control given is unmatched). Wish that more was taught on how to pull the best possible shots on a Breville or othern 9 bar machine. Owning a touch I can say that you can pull a shot with great ratio, prep properly, heat portafilter / group head, no real channeling is visible and all you pull out of the beans is sour flavor or bitter flavor 😢. Lastly, I have seen youtube shots that go way off the ratio wanted, channeling or blonding happens, no way it tastes good.
BTW I heard the decent forum is awesome!
When you feel like you want full control of your extractions with data feedback to learn from come and join the Decent Family. The forum is the place to ask, share and be a part of other DE1 users journeys.
@@decentespresso Full control and data is why I will end up with a Decent machine as the data alone gets me giddy inside 😉.
Hi! I have a question. As the coffee beans are being washed out, the flow increases while the pressure is at 9bar flat, and we don't want that. Could we not keep the flow constant and let the pressure decrease naturally, to get the same good results? kind regards :-)
If that is the flow curve you are aiming for from taste, then yes you can achieve this with a fast pressure decline. However we can achieve better results and flavors by not restricting the flow too much creating a curve that is more of a steady climb towards a plateau.
As the coffee dissolves / erodes doesn't the actual brew pressure get reduced even if the machine is trying to do 9 bars? It just be might be a small amount like 9 bar to 8 though.
No. A 9 bar machine will increase the water flow rate, to maintain 9 bar. That's what a 9 bar machine literally means. That's why flow increases automatically on those machines as the shot progresses.
@@decentespresso Does it? I always thought most espresso machines like e61 types (without flow control mod) have a constant set flow rate they just release or reroute extra pressure or the extra flow somewhere once pressure exceeds the max pressure setting on the rotary pump or OPV (over pressure valve)? Not sure how it works exactly but I thought that's basically what the OPV does ?
@@BensCoffeeRants they have a flow constrictor which sets a maximum flow rate, but that's a max. The OPV does what you think it does -- it reroutes pressure over 9 bar elsewhere, but that keeps 9 bar on the puck.
I’ve been using a la pavoni for a few years now, but the second I can get my hands on a decent, I will. I have to say though, that la pavonis are fantastic. Lever machines only get better the more you use them. I remember in the beginning having buyer’s remorse, since I wasn’t too happy with the espresso coming out. Now after using it for years and having learned so much more about espresso, I can pull shots better than most good cafes. So if you have a lever machine and are not consistently pulling excellent shots, trust me, it’s not the machine. It’s pretty funny actually that the best espresso machine is really just trying to mimic 60 year old technology.
Why change something that already works great. We just try to make it more accessible without the years of practise. Utilising technology to help while you hone your skills and a community to join as part of your journey.
The Breville can pressure profile manually on the fly. (Very easy mod) My question is if the Breville and Decent both do the same profile, will there be a difference in taste ?
Lance Hedrick eluded in one of his videos that the taste is not the same.
Hi, the taste will indeed be different, even if the recipe is the same. We can account for this mainly due to the dimensions within the grouphead and also the sensor placement and accuracy. While the grouphead you may see slight differences the accuracy of the sensors is where the DE1 will shine. This increased accuracy helps with your repeatability and end result.
For a home user with just a little knowledge of coffee, which model is appropriated? Tks
We're of course going to recommend our machine, which for your case, would be the DE1PRO. If you want recommendations of other brands, don't ask a vendor :D
@@decentespresso I surely know what I am asking,😁 and I got the answer. Tks
FWIW you can easily modify the BDB to have a lever profile and you can control it 100% on the fly (via paddle mod) which you can not do on the Decent (unless you have the new group head controller)... So if that's what you are buying the Decent for you can easily save the money and mod the BDB to do the same (Slayer and GS3 MP style pressure and flow profiling). Not saying anything against the Decent as I have used it and enjoy it, but paralysis analysis syndrome is real.
I like that mod, it's cool. You still won't have any idea what flow rate you're actually getting (just like all other manual flow controllers), so repeatability of good shots will take a little bit of skill.
@@decentespresso You can get some decent telemetry via the acaia scale API. Not perfect but decent ;)
@@eltakeiteasy I agree, actually, I think that using a flow metered weighing scale is a good hack.
@@eltakeiteasy i think you'll be paying for convenience and have great consistency shot after shot, day after day which bdb cannot do. you need to keep an eye on the bdb and reduce pressire for the ramp at the end.
@@breadbaconcheese I'm guessing you haven't used a BDB you can do all that automatically and consistently...
Why would the Decent have so many profiles if John is saying the Lever profile always makes the best espresso? Thanks
Lever is the best choice for medium dark to dark roasted coffee. Other profiles give better results with medium to ultralight. See decentespresso.com/mothers
-john
you can literally do a great shot on a $30 dollar espresso machine..
Does the Olimpia Cremina have the spring?
I believe the Cremina is "spring less" which I personally prefer. More work, but more control.
Decent Espresso Machines but less consistent, no?
@@Eklektik190 Depends on your skill level, i'd say.
@Marco Mathies Yes, you can perform 100% manual shots on the Decent. Here's a video of my doing that th-cam.com/video/tf0gk2cziF0/w-d-xo.html
@@decentespresso Cremina SL is the spring lever. "Spring Less" levers are not super repeatable which is why many prefer a spring lever.
You are like the Steve Jobs of the espresso world!
That's an insult, Steve jobs was just a marketing guy, he was also a control freak who loved bossing people around, and treated his employees and others in his life like pawns. So, hopefully he's a better person. Decent dude seems like a decent dude :D
@@BensCoffeeRants we should ask John if he has ever had that comparison 😂. Steve Jobs was more than a marketer. I think he once said he worked at Hewlett-Packard when he was 12 because he asked for parts to build a frequency counter and then they gave him parts and then later offered him a job. He has a lot of history working with computers and curating the best people around him. He does seem to have been a control freak but he also knew what he wanted and he could get the best work out of people.
I just wish the shipping was much cheaper.... even if it was like on a boat for long time but 1/4 of price of machine just shipping is too much :(
We wish that too..
For the people complaining that they can't afford a Decent machine are the very same people who buy a new $1500 iPhone each year, drive expensive cars, eat out at restaurants, go to the movies, have several paid streaming services, go to the barbers, shop at designer stores and pay high rent to their landlord..
The internet has made shot making impossible. One needs twenty different accessories to perform a shot. It’s ridiculous. These expresso machines are as expensive as cars. If I’m going to spend $4000 on an expresso machine I better be making money from it.
Well.... funny you mentioned that! There is more value in an espresso machine as it CAN make you money. A car wont and will normally depreciate in its value. The accessories are there to help achieve café quality shots but of course if you have honed your skills you will find you can achieve similar results just with the DE1, grinder, scales and a tamper alone.
@iceman0113 I agree making "expresso" has become impossible, given that "expresso" doesn't exist.
@@DomH1994 That's how they spell it in French, Spanish, Portuguese, and.... Latin.
@@decentespresso ...and yet here we all are conversing in english.
A rooted tablet from China is not coming into my house. Deal breaker right there for Decent.
Not all is lost! You can install the Decent app on a alternative Android tablet. We have some users using Samsung ones with good results too.
@@decentespresso any plans on supporting iOS tablets?
To that end can it be purchased without the tablet if we already have Samsung s6
@@adrianmichaelsmith Good to hear, but I also stay away from Google software for security and privacy reasons. Heck, the Google TH-cam videos I watch are used to determine what news articles I see in Apple News, and they are not even on the same accounts or platform.