Why I Unfollowed Redeemed Zoomer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2024
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Pastor Matt,
Thank you for a very respectful critique. I take it seriously from you since you’re an ordained minister.
Firstly, I cannot agree with your take on buildings, I am also iconoclast but I think we should make beautiful sanctuaries that don’t depict God.
I will however take your points to heart.
1. I will stop punching right. I’ve been doing that too much, and I need to stop. I still disagree with the common conservative strategy to split off, but I will make sure to be more mature and nuanced in how I express that.
2. I will be more responsible with my platform. I’m not sure if you know this but I do already recommend hundreds of PCA churches to people on my church map that thousands of people use. But point taken, I’ll stop using my platform to insult conservative Reformed denominations
3. My RUF minister has said the same thing - yes I will pursue formal seminary education. I need to do other things for now to support my soon-to-be wife but once we are financially stable I will
I apologize for my immaturity. God bless
God bless, Zoomer. It’s amazing and incredibly encouraging to see humility displayed by Christians, especially during “current month.”
Will you go to a gay PCUSA seminary or some other?
I may have watched a video or two, but I am not a regular viewer/follower of yours. I greatly appreciate this response! I hope there can be reconciliation and a moving forward. I hate to see Christians at odds with each other!
Punching "right" is usually an attack towards the woke right. I don't think an apology was needed.
Classy response!
One time i suggested reinforcing the conservative institutions instead of taking back liberal ones and he gave me a snarky response like "ok you do it then."
Honestly, building up the conservative churches and seminaries is the way to go. The PCA has nearly 400,000 members and the SBC nearly 14,000,000. Already, Westminster Theological Seminary (founded 1929, PCA), Concordia Theological Seminary (founded 1846, LCMS), Calvin University (founded 1876, CRC) and Baylor University (founded 1845, SBC) are accredited. We already have strong, historical institutions. All we need to do keep watch for liberalism and weed it out as soon as it takes root. That's what I intend to do.
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus!
John 3:16
Romans 6:23❤😊❤
You got off easy. Here and again someone will say something like that on his Discord and he just bans them without warning.
There are a lot of us, and each of us has our own part to play. Reinforcing conservative institutions is good, and retaking liberal ones is good.
I don't think Redeemed Zoomer attacks the PCA and other denominations for the algorithm, I think he's just being himself. This video is a great rebuke of him and I hope it bears fruit in his beliefs/his content.
I’m a Reformed Baptist and I have A LOT of respect for Redeemed Zoomer, but I find his frequent cold-shouldering and abrasive attitude towards Baptists to be quite difficult to stomach sometimes, especially when he brands us all together and criticises us based on stuff even I and many Baptists I know wouldnt agree with. I can accept criticism, but a lot of people in my denom have been complaining a lot about the strays we catch from him increasingly frequently. I’ve heard Orthodox Christians say similar.
It’s a shame, because I and many like me would generally agree with up to 90-95% of what he says in his videos or elsewhere. He has even changed my mind or at least shifted it on some issues. And I have felt much more confident being a Christian since finding his channel and community.
Bottom line, Baptists as people and as a denomination aren’t perfect but I think that if he truly wants to be ecumenical then he’d be as friendly to us as he is to other denoms. At the end of the day Christians should spend less time arguing with each other, there’s a time and place for it ofc but it shouldn’t be the kind of thing you see in frequent videos for instance (at least if it isn’t constructive).
Anyway I dont mean to be aggressive with this post, hopefully we can all be more denominationally tolerant 🤙
He fights Baptists as much as Catholics and Orthodox lads do. It’s quite foolish of him to do so.
Zoomer tends to look at Baptists the same way that Lutherans do. This is in large part because he's convinced that Calvin and Knox were closer to Luther than they were to Particular Baptists on matters such as the sacraments. (And there's no denying that the Westminster Confession's sections on the sacraments are very different than the corresponding sections in the 1689 Baptist Confession.)
As a particular Baptist I've noticed he really seems to refuse to separate the different types of Baptist. The Particular Baptist and the Anabaptist came from two completely different streams, but he often talks of Baptist with a wide brush.
@@MAMoreno As a Lutheran, I just have to laught at the fact that he thinks that they are closer to us 😂
Fact of the matter is, the Augsburg Theologians have condemned the Reformed view of the Eucharist even more than the Memorialist view.
Whether he likes it or not, Particular Baptist are a child of the Reformed tradition, and they are mich closer to each other.
My beloved baptist brother, a lot of Presbyterian, Lutheran or Anglican protestants don’t stomach Baptists because you are seen as the source of the problem. You, right there with the pietists and the puritans, are the reason the established protestant churches dropped in membership, you are the reason protestantism now has a reputation of shallow theology and unstructured ecclesiastical mess, you are the reason people think of church in a individualist consumerist way. You may agree with us on theological issues, but your practices have undermined the reputation of protestantism at large for centuries and for that there is a lot of frustration built up.
I think your critiques are incredibly valid. As a Baptist pastor, I find that his “punching right” extends to other low-church denominations or movements as well. I find that he consistently misrepresents low-church Christianity in his videos. On Instagram, he has made ridiculous claims like “he is more of a brother in Christ with the pope than Charles Spurgeon” (paraphrased).
I pray that he changes course.
Nice to find a Baptist brother out here. I still enjoy some of his videos, but I’ve long since stopped following him all the way. It’s just extremely hard when every other video starts with him roasting baptists for something we don’t even practice.
I very much agree, it’s sad the reformed presbytarian only critique when they’re to ones being criticized and not when everyone else is, in the low church.
As a baptist I agree wholeheartedly. He seems to really hate us more than anyone else even though we aren’t the main ones attacking him (cough cough Eastern Orthodox). It’s like he wants to be Catholic in every aspect but the Pope.
As a Lutheran, I approve that sentiment.
He seems to rub shoulders a bit too closely with Roman Catholicism while disregarding theologically sound and conservative evangelical churches because they are low-church, Baptist, or both.
RZ has helped my family. He is gifted. He is able to communicate important information related to theology, church history and denominations with clear language, humor, memes and graphics that reach my autistic kids in a way that others truly can't. I am so grateful for that. The majority of reformed churches don't care about communicating truth to autistic kids at all. Where I disagree with RZ I explain it to my kids and we still enjoy his videos. IMO he has a strong and bold personality and speaks out against his generation's apathy and I'm thankful for that. Weak wills won't work in these times. Strong ones subjected to Jesus are good. He'll mature with age, and we need more bold young reformed men online and in the local church. I'd never go to a PCUSA church and I'm in a denomination he greatly disses, but it doesn't at all offend me, and I generally agree with his views on them. He is not a 40 year old parent. I sure was not as clear thinking, theologically sound or strategically creative in my early 20's as he is.
All well said. IMO, RZ should be encouraged, not dismissed.
He doesn't believe the Bible promotes capitalism.
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus!
John 3:16
Romans 6:23❤😊❤❤
@@jamiejay7633 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@stormtrooper40 Explain? Two mutual parties who both benefit from a transaction. The competition is about who can provide the best service or product. Sounds biblical to me.
He’s a younger guy. Hopefully he sees your critiques and does some self examining. Definitely has some growing to do.
I've interacted with him a bit on TH-cam and Twitter/X and he has a huge ego problem. He can't see outside his own worldview and will tear down anyone who disagrees with him.
@@thejoshuaproject3809 This was my experience as well. Some very rude comments thrown my way for suggesting people should go to conservative seminaries (he thinks they are less prestigious and it is cowardly to attend them).
@@MO-bo2dueasy for someone who has never been to a liberal Satanary to advocate that it’s cowardly to avoid them. Having been to a liberal satanary and leaving it 9 months into my studies I can say mark and avoid them. Most seminaries are sadly satanaries now. We must mark them and avoid them. When you’re the only one in a class of roughly 40 to push back on a feminist professor against back against banning gendered names of God: Father Son and Holy Spirit; and then get told you’re just blinded by your white male privilege and your “opinion doesn’t matter” you’ll sadly learn really quickly that liberal mainline institutions are totally worthless.
@@thejoshuaproject3809 yeah he is very egotistical, like isn't he still a new convert? bro thinks he knows it all
He saw it, and his response cheered me up a bit.
Yea, I have been following RZ for quite some time. Lots of good content. I got really turned off though by a video where he was picking on conservative seminaries for being "less prestigious" than mainline ones. I found that not only insulting, but also strangely unaware of how seminaries actually work from a reputational perspective. I made a very carefully worded comment trying to point this out and was called a retreatist/coward to my face. After that, I started noticing almost every video was taking pot shots at my theological traditions (as a more Baptistic believer myself). That really irked me, and I mostly stopped watching his content since it became pretty obvious how young he is and how much growing up he probably needs to do. It was a shame because he has some GREAT content on the channel and in some ways overshadowed it with the poor behavior.
He’s immature and has hardly any life experience. It shows.
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus!
John 3:16
Romans 6:23😊❤❤
@MO-bo2du For Zoomer, its not about prestige, its about influence. Its undeniable that mainline protestant institutions have much much much more of an ability to influence Christianity and culture at large than the much newer and much smaller institutions coming from their more conservative counterparts. The mainline institutions have the money, the influence, and the history. That's what he wants to recapture. He knows that if you want to have a long lasting impact on the culture, you need to take hold of the levers of society that influence the culture.
Well said. We need good young men of God in this country - so many leaders are aging out. I pray RZ takes these words to heart and grows. I’ve lurked in his discord and have had to leave most of the time because of the antics.
Fleeing or leaving a church or denomination is not an act of cowardice or fear in the least; especially if someone has a family with children. It is hard to stand and fight while your children are still learning to think for themselves and are at the same time subject to false teaching. Leaving an apostate church under certain circumstances is a bold and brave act, especially when done correctly.
This is why I left my last church. If I didn’t have children I may have stayed but I can’t put my child in the position to learn false teachings. I say I might have stayed bc I live close to Elevation and most churches have followed behind Furtick and other false teachers. It’s next to impossible to find someone who will teach the Bible and shepherd Biblically.
I agree. I’m in a similar position in my Indy baptist church right now, poor leadership and some bad teaching. Not sure I can stay to reform whilst my wife and children have to be put in a bad position
@@BlackWomansReformation
Does this mean that having a family with children makes one more vunerable and less able to fight against childless culture warriors
@@danielwarton5343
Why are not the people with the bad teaching running from you.
How are they always the leadership
Yeah I think it’s entirely situational. I’m pretty convinced that the PCUSA is completely unsalvageable but if the denominations more where the SBC was in the 70’s and 80’s then that’s a different story.
Hi Matt,
As an ordained elder and deacon in the PCUSA and a member in Washington, PA, I agree with your assessment of the PCUSA. While I am still a member and active elder, I see the issues with the denomination and its direction as it continues to move further away from the foundation of the truth of scripture. The more I see of the institution itself and the activities of leadership, the more I lose hope in the revival of this denomination. While I am working on making an attempt now that I am involved in the operation, I am not confident in the church changing direction. At this point, I believe only God can change the heart of the denomination. If things do not change, I, too, plan to kick off the dust as I depart, not because I am running but because scripture guides us to this, and I have a responsibility to pursue the ministry as God intends. You're not fleeing; you are following Christ where he leads and following the scripture's guidance.
God Bless!
@johndavison6669 The only problem is that if we leave these denominations, we may lose the war in the long run. In order to influence the culture and leave a lasting impact on the world, you need to build things that will last. Like institutions. One of the reasons Christianity is losing influence in the US is that they have either lost or have less influential institutions. The institutions (collages, seminaries, endowments, hospitals, schools) of these old failing mainline churches have a huge impact on the culture, if they can be retaken, we can more effectively fight against the fading influence of Christianity in our culture. This is why Zoomer is trying to retake these denominations.
Ultimately, progressives PURSUE domination of all churches. Already, in the Anglican Church of North America, there were "progressive" parishes that split off and re-joined the Episcopal Church.
The question is, how will you prevent your NEXT theological home from being overtaken?
Matthew,
Thank you for bringing this to attention.
When you mentioned keeping our children away from the PCUSA, I thought of Lot living in Sodom. He lost some of his children there, and the ones who left with him were very troubled individuals, and that's a charitable description. I thought you were exactly right! Thank you!
Great job Pastor. May he head your wisdom and counsel
1 month later, zoomer commented saying he will change. He has changed nothing
How.
I have listened to Redeemed Zoomer a few times. I like his basic approach, but I saw him as young, and inexperienced and generally did not further watch his videos.
He’s got some funny thoughts too about evolution.
I lost respect for RZ when he was absolutely destroyed intellectually and biblically by Jay Dyer. Zoomer needs to mature in his faith before broadcasting.
@@danielwarton5343 How so?
Thank you brother for this. Even if you don't know who RZ is, this critique is very helpful.
I'm a presbyterian and i am part of a small but faithful group here in the UK. we don't have a church because our building is too old and is falling apart so now we meet in a hall that we rent every Sunday. I don't think there is nothing wrong in meeting in a humble place. God sees the hearts not the building, plus the church in the beginning used to meet in houses and in some cases also caves.
Thanks for sharing. I can only hope and pray that you are successful in drawing unity and consensus with the body of believers with whom you worship.
Thank you for the video Matt. Praying for you.
If anything it is cowardice to stay in an apostate church because you have long been there. There are many who may not consider the PCUSA an apostate denomination but if they hold to sola scriptura I cannot see how. If a church would likely need ten or more years to reform it would be better for faithful Christians to depart to a sound church and let the apostate church fade away as opposed to subjecting its members to years of unscriptural and ungodly pastoral oversite.
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus!
John 3:16
Romans 6:23❤😊
@davidleonard6593 I think for Zoomer, he sees the liberals/modernists lose battles but continue to fight fiercely to win, and because they never give up they continue to stack up win after win. For him its frustrating to see conservatives ever having to give up or split off, when it doesn't seem like the opposition often has to. He wants people to stay and fight as hard as the liberals do. Around 20-30 percent of PCUSA churches are conservative as well, and he only encourages people stay or go to those.
Dear brother Matt
Forgive me if I missed it in video, but I hope you reached out to reformedzoomer brother to brother (email text etc.).
Before bringing it out to secular audience
Your concerns are valid as a Christian. Not speaking for him only seen one of his videos, have watched yours for years.
Thank you for your platform, Glory to God for all good things.
He mentioned he has encouraged him many times to come learn at the Seminary. 🙏
I did hear that but it seemed as if that comment was concerning just the education portion of Matt’s disagreement with him not on the over arching concerns he has with reformedzoomer platform lately. Which would support Matt’s past video on his strong belief preachers should be trained at a seminary.
Thank you
I may have missed, but I didn't hear anything about his reaching out to RZ first, but he should have, no question. Mt. 18.
@@JohnDxianThis was not a private matter between them. This is about RZ’s public social media so it is perfectly appropriate to create a public video about it.
@@thewaka Again, Mt. 18, which addresses dealing with public matters first in a private way. But regardless, I don't object to a public venue, I just felt that it would have been more appropriate for Pastor Matt to invite Redeemed Zoomer on to discuss so he can explain his views. That's all.
I would never darken the door of a PCUSA 'church', any more than I would a united methodist 'church'.
'Come out from among them, and be ye seperate.'
True
Hey…..I just watched a guy read Machen’s “the good fight of faith” in a UMC church on TH-cam yesterday….then noticed he announced his last Sunday two weeks later😂
@lauraandrews1676 You do know there is still a sizable number of conservatives within the PCUSA, UMC, ELCA, and Episcopal churches right? Around 1/4th of the churches in each are faithful. Zoomer only encourages people to go to those ones, never ones that have gone liberal. Just because a denomination is known as "liberal" doesn't mean everyone or every church in it, is one.
@lauraandrews1676 Its not so unnuanced you know, around 20 to 30 percent of congregations within the PCUSA are conservative. Just because its a "liberal" denomination, doesn't mean everyone within it is "liberal". Around 1/4th of churches within the PCUSA, UMC, ELCA, and Episcopal church are conservative, and Zoomer only encourages people to go to those ones.
I get his heart but I would hate for young men and women to stay in dead churches in order to try and revive it when they need pastors to strengthen them and the fellowship of other faithful believers. The PCUSA and denominations like it (United Methodist, Episcopalians, LCMS) really are the ones who have "left".
Ephraim is joined to idols; leave him alone. (Hosea 4.17)
how has have LCMS churches "left"? from my understanding they are theologically conservative and hold to the Book of Concord.
@@LukeBowman08
Harrison has began a big push to liberalise LCMS last year
Check out Ryan Turnipsees
Hi Erik - good to see you commenting here. That's all... just hello 👋🏻
Great verse you quoted there too.
@@LukeBowman08 yeah... he seems confused. Or maybe he is WELS? I could see someone from those parts thinking of the LCMS as liberal.
@@oswaldrabbit1409 lol yeah maybe but he said in an interview or some older vid he's non-denom
Hey Matt, as a new PCA church attendee, I am happy to say that I enjoy the PCA church I go to. I am around Zoomer’s age and ultimately I agree with more conservative ideas. While I think what Zoomer is doing is noble, it’s also unlikely to gain traction. There was a reason for the split. I thoroughly enjoy watching your videos for a broader and deeper understanding of PCA positions.
Zoomer is likely about as conservative as you. His goal is literally to make these liberal denominations traditional and conservative again.
I think if zoomer was to attack a denomination for online attention it would be the SBC, UMC, GMC, or Rome, not little old PCA
Obviously ignoring the elephants in the room to chase after mice.
@@OllieOverTheMoon Zoomer doesn't ignore the elephants in the room. But as a calvinist he's going to focus just a little bit more on them compared to others.
Great video brother! I appreciate the kindness this was done with. I also appreciate RZ Godly response. You’re quickly becoming my be of my favorite Presby brothers!
21:00 really excellent point bringing up the covenanters among others regarding the buildings. I love a good church building and I'm a Baptist and I really hate that we have such utilitarian boring-looking buildings. But I would leave any building in a heartbeat if it was taken away so I could worship freely in a basement or a field
25:00 you forgot that he also supports materialistic evolution being somehow how God created and is thus compatible with Genesis among other passages of scripture
This is a massive No-No and clearly is not going to go anywhere with reconquista if they can't even stand on basic truths that God is creator
This is a necessary topic. Several commenters mentioned him after your video about what new men will take up after Sproul, Piper, JMac (though I wouldn’t necessarily include Piper myself). He is very smart but I think he lacks wisdom.
I mentioned him as a possible successor. His rather humble response to this video sees me continue to think this could be the case.
@@WilliamSwartzendruber I’m glad to see his response but his insistence on the PCUSA being the best denomination is a fatal flaw. He may change his mind in the future but for now that leaves him out. There are lots of people that could have made the list if we ignored major flaws in their thinking. 🤔
@@austinrothjr He doesn't think its the "best" in the way your probably assuming. He obvious abhors the rampant heresy and liberal thinking within the PCUSA. That's why he wants to retake it after all. He considers it the best because it (in theory, especially if its retaken) best holds onto classical protestant, and specifically (in theory, especially if its retaken) classical Calvinist beliefs. He also considers it the best because it has the most well formed and influential institutions of any Calvinist denomination by a mile. Institutions now being used by the enemy to spread bad ideas and influence the culture negatively. He wants to influence the culture as much as possible to be as christian as possible, and with the institutions of the PCUSA in the hands of conservatives again, that will happen much more easily compared to the much smaller and much less influential reformed denominations.
@@MrBattlestar10 Yeah…I get all that. He’s just very wrong. They’re as Calvinist as the shuddering demons.
@@austinrothjr I literally started my statement saying he abhors the modernism and liberalism in the PCUSA, I would ask you to be a little more charitable here.
When I mentioned that it best holds to classical Calvinist beliefs I made sure to specify, "if the denomination is retaken". Obviously in its current state, many in the denomination are as Calvinist as a rock. He says this all the time as well. However, IF he were able to retake the denomination. And get people to follow the PCUSA's confessions, they would be the most historically rooted and most influential denomination in the hands of Calvinists, this is undeniable. This is his goal.
One slight defence I would add as someone who has watched a lot of both your guys content - RZ doesn’t encourage Christian’s to join churches with “pride flags on the walls”, but rather the faithful remnant within the unfaithful denomination. He doesn’t advocate joining unfaithful congregations. Though he seems to overlook the fact that the majority of people are not geographically able to join a faithful remnant church, and if given the choice between a faithful PCA and an unfaithful PCUSA church you should always go for the faithful one (he has said words to this effect but doesn’t emphasise it enough)
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus!
John 3:16
Romans 6:23❤😊❤❤
I agree with much of this, as an Anglican who is part of the ACNA for much the same reason. Thanks Pastor Matt!
On a tangential note, I'd love to have you on my channel to discuss icons some time!
Excellent book! Just finished it and was very helpful indeed to understanding the WCF on a much deeper and more practical level. I highly recommend this book!
I don't have a horse in this race but it's funny to me how you say you guys didn't run away, but then while knowing he consumes your content instead of contacting him or trying to help him with the things you disagree on you decide to just unfollow and give up on him, I'm happy you made this video in the end because I'm sure he finds it useful. GOD IS GOOD!
Even if Zoomer is 100% right, every member of the PCA/OPC/EPC still has an unassailable weaker brother case for staying out of the PCUSA. But if Zoomer is wrong then he is leading thousands of young men into imminent spiritual danger, moral compromise, and possible apostasy.
Fellow PCA member, very glad that you have continued to defend this topic.
He does not advocate that Christianz should go to liberal churches. He mapped the conservative ones within PCUSA and advocate Christians to participate in them to strenght them If possible.
At no point is Zoomer saying to any of these young men to go into churches with pride flags, but into the conservative holdouts within these denominations. Its not so unnuanced you know, around 20 to 30 percent of congregations within the PCUSA are conservative. Just because its a "liberal" denomination, doesn't mean everyone within it is "liberal".
@@pedroguimaraes6094 I agree with this in principle, but his church finder leads to congregations with female pastors. Far from biblical conservatism.
That was helpful. I'm just learning about the PCA and listening online but it would be a big step for me to go to go to one yet. Hope to learn some more first. Thanks, Pastor Everhard.
It’s not in any way cowardice to leave a church, institution, or denomination when remaining requires your family to be subjected to anti-Christ teachings from the pulpit, and good ministers/professors are either refused ordination or kicked out
You know RZ wants people to be part of churches that have remained conservative in the mainline denomination and strengthen them and he has really mapped them out. He does not advocate that you should go to a liberal church.
However i got your point.
@@pedroguimaraes6094I recognize that too. My issue is not with him calling for Christians in good mainline churches to stay, it is with him calling those who left for good reason like Machen retreatists or cowards
J. Gretchen Machen didn't leave PCUS voluntarily, he was kicked out for not supporting liberal mission board. He appealed without success. Gretchen was targeted form removal by liberals and General Assembly for not supporting Prohibition. From then on, they went after him for everything because Machen said "Presbyterians should be fundamental in theologically, not politically". Zoomer knows this and still criticizes him.
It's always unnerved me how easy it is for protestants to come and go to this or that denomination
I can’t speak for everyone, but just spit bowling. A potential reason, couldn’t it be because many of the more faithful denominations and churches are united on the essentials, so minor differences don’t mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things?
I agree. RZ's seeming beef with conservative denominations is unhelpful at best and his history regarding the conservatives leaving the PC(USA) is skewed unnecessarily against them. As an OPCer, RZ completely misunderstands why Machen & co. founded the OPC and instead makes it appear that they got butthurt by the PC(USA) and took their toys and went home. No! They fought hard and long in the denomination and at Princeton seminary but were thrown out without a proper hearing. Conservatives, as you said, have tried to reform the PC(USA) but they have been thrown out or had to leave for the sake of caring for their congregation/family (the moment it begins to change you or your churches, that's the point when you need to get out. This is why neither I nor my family would ever attend a liberal church and hear heretical preaching.) I don't wish RZ would fail in his mission, I hope to see another faithful Presbyterian denomination stand to bear witness in a broken and hurting world in need of Jesus. But his takes (theological and ministry-minded) are often-times problematic and detrimental to the very goal he has in mind. "But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
Have you seen a more effective plan against the left?
There is no such thing as being reformed and being conservative. The reformation is radical leftism by definition. The pope rejected traditional values and left the church. Then the reformers rejected the Pope's traditional values and left Rome. Then the atheists rejected the reformers' traditional values and left Christianity.
Every one of you is just a different spot on the downward slide from traditional conservative values into atheist secular relativism. You're ALL on the left, it's just a matter of how far.
I think for Zoomer, he sees the liberals/modernists lose battles but continue to fight fiercely to win, and because they never give up they continue to stack up win after win. For him its frustrating to see conservatives ever having to give up or split off, when it doesn't seem like the opposition often has to.
Thanks Matthew for the video. As a former PCUSA (ordained Elder), I would agree that while the mission to try to revive the PC(USA) may be commendable, in general, at this point, it is fruitless. I watched the battles for over 20 (if not 30) years. I went to Presbytery meetings. I think what people who haven't served fail to realize is the capture at the presbytery and higher levels. The bigger issue is with the baby boomer level retiring, those conservative teaching elders will be retiring and the permanent offices at presbyteries will be staffed with younger liberal staff and the clergy portion of presbyteries (typically 1/2 of membership) will also be held by these same younger liberal clergy, you are on a losing end of the battle at this point. You don't have the numbers to even turn things around. Even if you can convince conservative churches to elect conservative elders, each remaining liberal church will still have an unproportionate number of liberal clergy and liberal elders since each church in a presbytery will get at least 2 spots in presbytery. While conservative churches may get additional ruling elders at presbytery level, there is only a limit on the number of spots available. Most presbyteries try to equal total lay elder positions available to equal teaching elders within the presbytery. So, to change the ByLaws, which means getting 2/3rds of presbyteries to approve an amendment, becomes an insurmountable hurdle due to the number of remaining liberal teaching elders across the presbyteries. It would require not just attracting lay people to the PC(USA), but attracting lay people that can become elders to all those remaining liberal churches. Until those churches close and you lose the liberal teaching elders associated with them and corresponding liberal ruling elders, you can't make an impact at the presbytery level. I am not sure how it can be done under the current setup of how presbyteries are managed. The church I had belonged to did go to EPC and the one I was ordained in went to ECO (one you failed to mention when going through other Presbyterian denominations). In the city where I live now, there are two ECO churches and several PCUSA, but no EPC, OPC, or PCA (city of 150K plus). There is also a Cumberland Presbyterian, several Reformed Baptist, and a CREC church.
ECO is confusing.Not sure what it is.
@@cleavisnowell1240 I would agree with that sentiment. It is basically minority PCUSA that lost out to the progressives and didn't want to go to EPC (next most closest). I am not sure if it is due to the fact that EPC only holds to Westminster, or what. The EPC and ECO (I believe) do have similar position on buildings (one of main sticking points in PCUSA). It looks like ECO has dropped the Scots Confession, so it isn't a Scottish tradition issue. In general, I take it as ECO wants a broader confessional viewpoint and also is firm on egalitarian position whereas EPC allows churches the option of complementarian. In another 20 years, maybe there will be reconsolidating (e.g., ECO and EPC merger).
@@thomashcase The only problem is that if we leave these denominations, we may lose the war in the long run. In order to influence the culture and leave a lasting impact on the world, you need to build things that will last. Like institutions. One of the reasons Christianity is losing influence in the US is that they have either lost or have less influential institutions. The institutions (collages, seminaries, endowments, hospitals, schools) of these old failing mainline churches have a huge impact on the culture, if they can be retaken, we can more effectively fight against the fading influence of Christianity in our culture. This is why Zoomer is trying to retake these denominations.
My four kids are the first thing I thought of when considering reconquista…I wouldn’t dare sacrifice them on the altar of institutional renewal. I think every parent wouldn’t care for the PCUSA eventually becoming conservative at the cost of their own children leaving the faith
Watched a little of an online service of pcusa people in short sleeve tees looking more charismatic than Presbyterian and will skip by them from now on.
The reconquista video I saw with zoomer and a I think methodministries said reconquista is for childless young men who are strong in their faith. That may have been in reference to the openly affirming congregations.
Neither does RZ recommend bringing your kids to a liberal denomination.
@chrisfrenette1978 At no point is Zoomer saying to anybody to go into churches with pride flags, but into the conservative holdouts within these denominations. Its not so unnuanced you know, around 20 to 30 percent of congregations within the PCUSA are conservative. Just because its a "liberal" denomination, doesn't mean everyone within it is "liberal".
I know a guy that went all in on RZ and now attends an Eastern Orthodox Church. Based on buildings and traditions.
Bit of an uncharitable reading of the situation I feel like. I think Everhard definitely misrepresents why Zoomer has an appreciation for church buildings. Its not because he likes them purely on an aesthetic level. Zoomers reasoning is that Christians used to focus on and appreciate beauty, and now do not. That protestants put their livelihoods into creating these buildings and institutions for hundreds of years, only for them to be abandoned, defaced by evil, or used to influence the culture in negative ways. His love of buildings is a proxy for his love of classical Protestantism and the institutions they built. He wants to retake these institutions so they can no longer be defaced, and so Christians can have more of an influence on the culture like they used to. That without these "buildings", without these institutions, it will be very hard to accomplish these goals.
Good
@@MrBattlestar10 I get your point, but maybe that means that going forward we should focus less on our buildings and institutions, and more on our characters and the impact of our congregation overall? I like pretty buildings too and I get it's sad to see them fall into the hands of evil when we spent so much time and money building them, but maybe that's an indicator that we should spend our resources on things evil CAN'T take away, i.e. nonmaterial things like relationship-building. Obviously some building is necessary for church and ideally it has an element of sacredness to it, but the over-attachment to buildings that RZ has honestly reeks of worldliness and misordered priorities.
@@SilentEcho4178 Again its not about the church buildings themselves per se. The issue is that things like hospitals, schools, collages, and media companies all serve to influence the culture much more substantially. Without these things we can't hope to influence the culture nearly as much. The old mainline denominations have these things and much more substantial resources than most of their evangelical counterparts. It doesn't have to be one thing at the expense of another. We can care about beauty AND cultivate relationships AND build long lasting institutions that will be around once we die. Protestants used to do this...why not now?
@@SilentEcho4178 If churches would do better at gate keeping, they could keep the buildings and kick out heretics rather than let them metastasize to the point where you have to secede or be kicked out.
I agree. There are definitely things that he says which are intriguing... However, when I went on his website to check out these churches interested in reclaiming traditional orthodox renewal, 2 out of the 3 congregations (of ones that I had checked) had female pastors on staff.
That's why he wants to retake these denominations. Female pastors are not ideal in his view. If the church is otherwise conservative on most other things, is why he puts churches like those on the list.
@@MrBattlestar10 His site says that they don't have a hard stance on women being in office or not, effectively allowing them to be in a pastoral position. His church finder led me to two prospective churches with women in leadership. I immediately lost trust in his judgment.
@@Isaac-wl6wu Where on his site does it say that? Also he literally made a video saying that he doesn't think women should be pastors. As I said in the message you replied to. If the church has a female pastor, but is otherwise conservative and traditional in literally every other way, its better to join that one than to not join one at all. That's Zoomers perspective.
I like him. I just don’t like how he thinks he’s gonna somehow change an entire denomination by staying in a gay church.
Today I responded to a disturbing comment he made on his instagram account:
“Reaching institutions is more important than reaching people”.
I love his content and him as a brother in Christ but I have to admit that when he says this type of stuff I become deeply concerned that his appreciation for “old pretty buildings” has developed into an idol that clouds his reading of the Bible and as a result his life as a Christian.
Another critique I have of RZ is his frequent misrepresentation of the Particular Baptist tradition. (As well as "Baptists" overall.) The same way Rome and the East use "Protestant" in a vague and broad manner in order to strawman and diminish our differing traditions, likewise Zoomer does so to the various "Baptist" traditions. He will say that those who hold to the 1689 are mere memorialists who view the sacraments as unimportant. He says we don't have a high view of the Church or Church history. In a stream he did with Christian Wagner he even went as far as to say that we deny the Nicene Creed since we "don't believe in one baptism for the remission of sins." This is demonstrably false and shows his utter lack of knowledge and care for representing us truthfully. His errors have been pointed out in the past, but he continues to conflate us with Dispensationalists and to slander us so as to appear more acceptable to groups like the Lutherans and Roman Catholics. I don't hate RZ, I think he has done much good in spreading the Christian message to younger audiences (of which I am a part of), it's just so frustrating to see my theological line constantly misrepresented despite frequent corrections. (Perhaps this is similar to how you felt with his comments on the PCA and "running away.")
If you believe that baptism confers forgiveness of sins you would be in the minority even among 1689'ers, at least the popular ones. James White is constantly attacking the doctrine of baptismal grace, implying that it is even akin to the Corinthian heresy due to baptism being a "work." Even Gavin Ortlund, in his dialogues with Jordan Cooper, made it clear that he does not believe baptism literally confers the forgiveness of sins. Now, these figures may not be proper representatives of the Particular Baptist confessions; that's not my point. My point is that Zoomer is warranted in his generalizing when all of the most prominent voices are all consistent with it.
Nice Channel name "SaintAndersonOfArizona"
Also Protestant Conservatiwe Orthodox Polish Baptist here; Reedemed Zoomer, is a liberal who i don't aprove, who is suporting liberalism to take over churches by claiming that woman pastorship is in any shape or for to be accepted. And all his talk about buldings, is innmature nonsense.
@@BenjaminAnderson21 Hey, thanks for the response! A couple of points I would make (sorry, this post is long):
1.) I think there is an inconsistency when people talk on this subject, mainly regarding your last two sentences. If we are going to judge a specific tradition by the views of its laity, or the views of popular modern apologists/teachers claiming to defend said tradition, then we must also hold this standard throughout. If we use the laity as the standard, then each group will be misrepresented, as they tend not to know or hold to the same beliefs that originally founded their professed tradition. A few examples of this are: the majority of Roman Catholics not believing in transubstantiation, Presbyterians in denominations like the PCA holding to a lower view of the sacraments (specifically baptism, which Zoomer rightfully points out), many Reformed being completely confused on Reformed, and honestly just pre-modern as a whole, political thought, many in Western traditions not believing in predestination, and Baptist laymen having very low sacramentology, having an incorrect view of Sola Scriptura, as well as disagreeing with Inseparable Operations while agreeing with EFS/ERAS. Obviously we want the layperson to agree with the confessional documents of their tradition, but unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case in our modern era. (A discussion on proper catechesis not being done enough could be placed here.)
I would say that using popular modern apologists/teachers is also unsatisfactory, as they too seem to err on what their tradition and confessional standards say. James White disagrees with 1689 Federalism, Inseparable Operations, has a lower sacramentology, and differs on Divine Simplicity. Trent Horn called double predestination "monstrous" and said "the Church rejects that" despite it being an allowed position in Rome. (I think Wagner does a good job showing that it's the main view.) Prominent voices and pastors in the PCA still have a lower sacramentology, many Reformed teachers misunderstand Reformed political thought, Bruce Ware and Wayne Grudem support EFS, and Ortlund would have a variety of disagreements with the confessional Particular Baptists (although he is better and more careful than James White). (Again, discussions surrounding improper catechesis, what seminaries have taught in modern times, and how that has affected everything could be placed here.)
Thus, we are left with what I believe to be the most satisfactory option: use confessional documents and writings from Reformation and Post-Reformation figures to represent each tradition. I believe this solves the misrepresentation problem that arises from using the other two methods. Additionally, this shows Zoomer's inconsistency as he would utilize this standard when discussing his tradition, but then switch to the other two when discussing a group like the Particular Baptists (even worse, he'll use figures like John MacArthur to represent us, despite him not holding to the 1689 or Covenant Theology). He has constantly mentioned how the Reformed Confessions are the standard for discussing and defining Presbyterian beliefs, and not what leaders in the PCUSA say. Hopefully this shows why I believe that RZ isn't warranted in his statements about "Baptist" beliefs.
2.) I would say the confessional Particular Baptists would fully affirm the Nicene Creed, including when it states, "one baptism for the remission of sins." People tend to misunderstand confessional Baptist views on the sacraments and think they are much lower than they really are. They truly believed that Baptism and the Lord's Supper were means of grace and means of salvation (you see this in The Baptist Catechism by Benjamin Keach, as well as throughout their writings). They were in agreement with the Reformed tradition in their views on the Lord's Supper. There is also misunderstanding on their use of "ordinance." To quote James Renihan in his exposition of the 1689 LBCF, "There is a fundamental mistake many make when noting that the word ordinance is employed in 2LCF 28-30 rather than the common post-Reformation term "sacrament." They assume that this choice entailed a rejection of "sacrament" and a preference for ordinance, thus establishing a "Zwinglian" trajectory in subsequent Baptist circles. This is a false deduction. The term "sacrament" and its cognates (e.g., "sacramental") regularly appear in Particular Baptist literature, without any indication that the word was controversial or inappropriate for a description of their confessional theology." He then discusses their very specific reasons for using "ordinance" in the confession. Some better modern voices for confessional Baptist beliefs would be James Renihan, Samuel Renihan, Richard Barcellos, Brandon Adams, Pascal Denault, Sam Waldron, and those at International Reformed Baptist Seminary. I would especially recommend James Renihan's 2 volume Baptist Symbolics set discussing the 1st and 2nd London Baptist Confessions.
There's honestly a lot more I could add, but I'll end with that. I am curious though, which tradition are you a part of (if you don't mind me asking)?
I like RZ, but he obviously doesn’t understand what a Baptist is in my opinion. I’m a reformed Baptist minister. The way he constantly conflates nondenominational churches with Baptist churches is completely off base. If anything, nondenominational churches are basically Pentecostal as far as I can tell, not Baptist churches
@@BeniaminZaboj Thanks on the channel name, I thought it was funny with the Anderson icon😆. Happy to see a fellow conservative Baptist! Do you also hold to the 1689? How are things for Baptists and the Church overall in Poland? I'm from the US and it's sad to see liberalism get worse here with each passing generation (although there are small groups of young men standing against such depravity). Also, I feel like I've seen you in the chat of The Other Paul's live streams before. Yeah, I disagree with RZ's stance on women pastors as I would say that it's ontologically impossible for a woman to be one, and that churches that have them aren't being administered the sacraments (obviously Scripture is abundantly clear that only men can be pastors). With regards to the buildings, I can somewhat understand why someone would be upset, feeling as though a historic church which championed Biblical orthodoxy for generations has now been stolen by demonic liberals. I do disagree with how Zoomer sometimes approaches the subject and constantly attacks those in the PCA/OPC or other conservative denominations (as Matthew Everhard discussed in the video). Zoomer has a wrong gauge for what conservative is, as he will call groups like the SBC and LCMS "staunchly conservative" even if they've compromised on stuff like CRT, DEI, and the whole side-B "gay Christianity" garbage (Jon Harris from Conversations That Matter does a good job covering Baptist groups in the US).
I had a small argument with what seems to be zoomers' friend. His friend said he has talked to zoomer many times about this topic. They don't hold to biblical inerrancy and hold to a very neo-orthodox view of scripture and Christ. Neo-orthodoxy is a very dangerous system of thinking. Every lecture I've heard about Neo-orthodoxy was in a negative light, while zoomer talks about it positively. Pray for zoomer and pray for those who take everything he says as law.
Edit: I've been waiting for someone to make this video. Something needed to be said. Also, let's not forget about the Auburn Declaration.
Which friend?
Neo-orthodoxy is just paleo-heterodoxy. It's no wonder it's fruit has been rotten everywhere it took hold
What's the Auburn declaration?
Conservative in the PCUSA have problems regarding bein Neo-Orthodox. Meanwhile in PCA pastors don't hold to Westminster standards about the Sacraments.
@@pedroguimaraes6094 have you been to a PCA church? They very much do. It's better than the PCUSA that has the auburn declaration.
He means well, I guess, but in my opinion he's a kid that needs to mature. As I heard a seminary professor say one time, "son, you haven't lived long enough or sinned big enough to even have an opinion on that". Hopefully he will come around, but I found it hard to listen to him when I used to so I stopped. And I can attest to the value of your book. I've been PCA for 44 years and it was very helpful - so it's not just for newbies. Blessings, Pastor Matt. Thankful for this channel and for you.
I appreciate how kindly you bring this up! I’m not the same denomination as either of you, but I did noticed RZ’s tendency to less than charitable at time to many other denominations.
I've been a fan and follower of RZ from the start but I started tuning him out a couple months ago on X for the reasons you're saying.
He would make a controversial claim or assertion but wouldn't respond to questions or explain himself further.
It seemed like engagement farming, so I stopped participating.
I agree that his original explanatory content was the best and most helpful material he's created.
His whole IG page is just "you see, I'm right because I drew myself as the big strong cool doge, and drew you as the dumb little baby cheems"
BRUH TRUE XD
Every time I hear a video from you nowadays, I am grateful to be a confessional Lutheran.
Two big misses from this critique of Mr. Zoomer: (i) treating the PCUSA as homogenous and (ii) being dismissive of the material heritage left by our Presbyterian forebears.
(I) Rev. Everhard homogenizes the PCUSA and speaks as if every church is far left and has a pride flag out front. Not the case and Mr. Zoomer isn’t asking anyone to join those fargone churches. He’s asking ppl to strengthen the faithful conservative congregations. By analogy, it’s not fair to judge the entire United States by who’s in the White House and assume the Biden Administration represents the views of all Americans.
(II) So many reduce Zoomer’s view to “save the pretty churches” but consider a different angle. There is material and generational wealth in these established denominations. Endowments, seminaries, architecture, etc that were given to the church by faithful Christians for the purpose of the gospel. Those resources *will* be used one way or another. Would you prefer they enable heretics to further their agendas? If you leave an endowment to the PCA and it starts to turn liberal in 3 generations, would you really want to be financing heretics from beyond the grave?
One nice thing: I agree that R. Zoomer is completely wrong about Machen. Machen is literally the model of who Zoomer needs for the Reconquista- tough as nails faithful Christians who will stay until they are forcibly removed from their denomination.
Until quite recently, he had a couple of people like Machen there. But they left because their commitment to the commands of God turned out not to be wanted in the movement (or very appealing to him.)
As a non denominational Christian I still follow him despite some strong disagreements.
The reconqista while I’m not against I think the danger is historical romanticism. Classical Protestantism wasn’t entirely sunshine and rainbows back in the day.
I still think he’s one of the best voices of Christian ecumenicalism on TH-cam. I support him for that reason.
I have been rather annoyed as well by his criticism of the OPC. Where I live the only faithful Presbyterian church is the OPC and it's not retreatists. Most of us, including our pastor, didn't grow up presbyterian, but came there because God comverted us to reformed theology and we wanted a faithful church.
A question that I thought of when you mentioned building consensus was what prevented the PCA and OPC from merging in the past, and if the possibility exists of future attempts to merge
Thanks for sharing, Matt. And if there are any other TH-cam celebrities you disapprove of, do let us know, won't you? I think it is essential that you opine on all the TH-cam creators you know; that's really the most important thing, and we have a responsibility to look up to those who provide this essential spiritual gift.
I gained respect for you for this video. Calling things out, staying truthful, also i can see youre clearly bothered as you take faith in our lord so seriously. All off which shows your genuiness ! Keep it up brother
The new testament doesn’t talk about ornate buildings because Christians had to worship under the radar while being persecuted. Before that the apostles were still going to the temple! #makechurchesgreatagain☦️
"Are you the one to build a house for Me to dwell in? I have not dwelt in a house from the day I brought the Israelites up out of Egypt to this day. I have been moving from place to place with a tent as My dwelling. Wherever I have moved with all the Israelites, did I ever say to any of their rulers whom I commanded to shepherd My people Israel, 'Why have you not built Me a house of cedar'?"
-God Almighty
God doesn't want ornate buildings. Our faith matters infinitely more to Him than the appearance of our churches.
I agree 100% our faith is more important than the building. But I would say that’s part of bringing the kingdom to earth. Does God dwell in the strip mall Protestant church? If they are faithful then of course. But we are called to change the earth here and now. Ornate church buildings are part of that. Blessings
@@dugga4617 Show me one part of the Bible where God says "Thou shall construct for Me the most opulent and extravagant dwelling places possible".
I don’t think you’re understanding what i mean. But since you seem to hold to sola scriptura, you can look over exodus 36. Where Yahweh gives an artistic spirit of wisdom to construct the tabernacle in ornate fashion. And that’s just one chapter expressing God’s love for beautiful things
@@dugga4617 the Tabernacle was ultimately a giant tent. It wasn't anywhere close to being as grand as any of the palaces of the ancient world. David himself pointed this out, to which God responded by asking him when He had ever commanded Israel to build him such a magnificent house? Again, God does not care about how fancy His places of worship are. In fact, He has had plenty to say towards people who outfitted themselves with the luxuries of their day and claimed to serve Him while in truth being far from Him.
28:40-I know it's somewhat off topic, but as soon as you said this, an old song rushed into my head:
O would, ere I had seen the day
That Treason thus could sell us,
My auld grey head had lien in clay,
Wi' Bruce and loyal Wallace!
But pith and power, till my last hour,
I'll mak this declaration;
We're bought and sold for English gold
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!
[Burns, Robert "Such a Parcel of Rogues in a Nation" 1791.]
I'm a confessional Lutheran, and wasn't aware the PCUSA was that deplorable. But you're not alone, our ELCA is an even bigger disgrace.
i believe in one denomination call it CHRISTIAN. In today's world, the devil uses divisiveness to try to destroy all that is righteous. It is no wonder so many youth have trouble finding FAITH when so many political games are played across so many denominations. All Pride is sin and yet the secular world would have us believe without Pride there is no security in any FAITH. Stay Bible-based and CHRIST-centered, love one another, and pray. GOD Bless
I understand the sentiment of wanting to preserve infrastructure and institutions built by Christians. Conservative Christians (like myself) seem to have an aversion to wielding power, even righteously. Proverbs 13:22 talks about the wealth of sinners being left for the righteous, but what we’re seeing is the wealth of the righteous is being taken by sinners.
I also understand the moral good and necessity of beauty.
That being said, the emphasis on buildings and infrastructure I’m seeing online just isn’t biblical, as you said. The online dialogue right now is really about style over substance.
Conservative PCUSA members who had 100 years to "educate" liberal Christians did NOTHING. Not only nothing, their children became liberal Christians. Denominations where conservatives retook the leadership did it when the cancer didn't spread so wide (see SBC). PCUSA's liberal cancer spread everywhere for 120+ years. You can only save people at the early stage of cancer...not at the final stage. The church works in the same way....unless God directly intervenes.
I will say he was really helpful for me coming to grasps that I wanted to change denominations to the PCA, I have really wrestled with his content, and the community that he has built on Discord. It is a lot of really young christians, mostly high schoolers, who just argue online or get converted to eastern orthodoxy and Catholicism. This discord hasn't been without its own issues and controversies. Thankful for you articulating some things to be weary about
Why do they listen to him instead of you older lot
@@goyonman9655 Did you listen to your elders as a young man?
This is the first video I’ve seen of your channel and I really liked it. I agree with you on so much. And being that I’m a new, small Christian TH-camr who would like to “make it” - I can totally see the temptation of giving into the algorithm to get views and subs. I’ve posted videos that got a lot of views before that I took down because I saw that I was doing it to purposely get a reaction - and it works. But you’re right that I will stand before the Lord and give an account.
I do like Redeemed Zoomer because he’s well-read and can articulate Christian theology well, but I see the same red flags you do. I’m surprised you didn't mention his view on Evolution.
But God bless, Matthew. Continue to be faithful to our Lord!
I just ordered your book, "Hold Fast..." and read your bio. I live in North central Indiana and drive past Malone all the time b/c my in-laws live in Alliance.
Would this video not also be an example of punching right? Your concerns are reasonable and well-stated, but I also wonder if this couldn't have been a private message - or at least paired with a private message.
No, it had to be public because he's warning all of us too
@@guilleagudelo777 And Zoomer wasn't warning people about how breaking off from the libs to form new institutions is a losing strategy?
Richard has been confronted privately about all these things before- he doesn’t change his tune until it escalates to public rebuke. Too, he’s got an audience that needs to be warned against certain beliefs and attitudes.
You're right to say there's a need to build bridges and not walls, I disagree with two things you say:
1) I don't think he's saying negative things about the PCA for likes or views.
2) Redeemed Zoomer is right in calling out conservatives. We tend to leave instead of fighting for the truth. The most recent example being Vanguard Presbyterian Church who left the PCA because we were too far to the left (and then more churches split from THEM to form the Christ Reformed Presbyterian Church two years later). I'm in the PCA and love the PCA, so I hope the next generation fights for unity and purity and doesn't just split off.
He's been misrepresenting every Christian denominations in his videos, and a lot of people are getting angry about that.
Give me some examples.
Actually what i see is that he has good relationship with big youtubers across all denominations.
@@pedroguimaraes6094Pentecostals and none denominationals there’s certain things he doesn’t seem to understand about the complexity of the lower church
He did a pretty fair job.
@@Emmanuel-3.16 Ah.... i fully agree with him that these forms of Christianity are highly problematic. I'm currently reading the Westminster Confession Commentary by the great OPC pastor "G. Williamson" and he also makes important critics. Usually Reformed Christianity and Pentecostals don't get along and some of them are actually calling "Calvinism" a heresy because of their arminianism.
@@Emmanuel-3.16 Pentecostals and non Denomination are not Christian, RZ is actually Correct there, please read the Canons of Dort 1619, the Westminster Confession 1646 and the Westminster Larger Catechism 1647 which are all gravely clear that Arminians are not Christians and are classed alongside the Papists. So he is correct on that one.
Note. "Low Church Anglican" which RZ correctly Described as "just Calvinists but with Bishops", so he does get it right sometimes!
That was a very charitable, yet cautionary critique. Well done, Pastor Matt.
I am a member of the PCUSA. I follow you. I know your background from Akron. I will continue to follow you. I can't entirely agree with your perspective on the denomination. I understand your why, but see some of what you are accusing redeemedzoomer of doing in the PCUSA. In my mind, we remain brothers. I believe we will be in Heaven.
Machen didn't leave, he was kicked out for standing for the gospel.
Machen was kicked out of Princeton, but he left the PCUSA of his own volition.
@@keelanenns4548 Exactly the opposite. He left Princeton voluntarily, and several years later was defrocked.
Not being a Presbyterian, I still can agree with the first part of the criticism. Given that you are a Presbyterian, I even grant your particular interpretation of the "2nd commandment". However, the Scottish Covenanters did not leave beautiful church buildings to worship in barns because they were oppressed. Anyone who visited Scotland knows what they did to these beautiful buildings. And usually they were the oppressors and left the country (as well as their English brethren there) a spiritual wasteland. And yes, we should worship the Lord with beauty as well.
Great job, Pastor.
25:50 he has a great following not only because of the way he uses the algorithm, but because he actually speaks for a generation. As a zoomer myself i was stunned to find redeemed zoomer having most of the same tendencies that i had prior to following him (me being in europe and living in a very different context). The thing is that there are many inteligent young people that are sick and tired of the shallow theology of the evangelicals, the blasphemous contemporary worship style and the pietism of the puritans. Our generation has seen the greatest shift towards catholicism and eastern orthodoxy since the counter-reformation because of the perceived superiority of those traditions in some aspects that used to be common to all christians. We, faithful theology nerds, want something more riguros then “Love Jesus” as a rule for life and worship and we either:
1) Join or help build a traditional high church protestant denomination (what i do)
2) Retake mainline traditional protestant denominations (what redeemed zoomer does)
3) Go the easy way and convert to catholicism or orthodoxy.
Those are what we see as the only viable options moving forward and if the rest of the protestant church doesn’t understand this, it will drop in membership. At least those that actually know why they believe what they believe will no longer attend those churches that fail to address those issues. If no church does it, you will find that in 30 years the only knowledgeable christians who know theology and read their Bibles are all catholics.
I read Zoomers response, and honestly it was so charitable. But seriously, I do not think you understand RZ or his ministry whatsoever. If you think Zoomer wants people to attend churches that fly pride flags you're wrong: he's explicitly said that before. Also, he's an iconoclast, and has never depicted Christ in any of his videos. To say he doesn't understand the second commandment is absurd. Presbyterians don't value cathedrals? Take a look at John Calvin's church in Geneva and tell me what it looked like. A church building should be beautiful.
You were right about him punching right too much though.
He’s commented it’s not a big deal to join egalitarian churches.
Thank you. Do you think then that he's beyond sifting wheat from chaff? No more wheat, just chaff? Or do you have no more desire to make the effort to sift?
Dude argues for four green walls, and if they are feeling spicy, maybe having a cross on the wall. A reason why people are jumping ship to other denominations.
i find that RZ is seemingly a bit arrogant and seemingly exhibits cognitive superiority in terms of knowledge on theology / church history. i said SEEMINGLY and that is MY opinion. After i think watching a 4th or 5th of his videos, i already was sensing something is amiss or that our beliefs are not really aligned. I hope he'll take a serious note of this 'gentle rebuke' of yours, Pastor Matthew.
RZ has good videos on church history but yeah he does appear arrogant. I wouldn’t be surprised that by the time he’s 30 his own opinions on the PCUSA would change.
Brothers we need to watch out for reviling speech, calling faithful brothers and sisters “cowards” and castigating language is very dangerous, be very careful of how you speak about other brothers!
I believe Zoomer has a valid critique of the PCA in the area of its shaky sacramentology. The historic Reformed confessions state that baptism is efficacious for the forgiveness of sins and ingrafting into Christ, and that in the Eucharist we receieve the true, natural body and blood of the Lord. However, the PCA does not consistently hold these positions, which creates a real blemish in its overall orthodoxy. I would agree that Zoomer is often overly aggressive and uncareful in his attacking of the PCA, but his concern is very warranted in this area.
Is there any study guide(s)/curriculum to go along with the Bible out there that you would recommend? Thank you! I really enjoy your channel, thanks for sharing. 🙏🏽👍🏽
The LORD deserves a beautiful house of worship. Instructions for the tabernacle and temple are scriptural proof that GOD values architectural and decorative holy splendor. However, we must not sacrifice biblical truth for the splendor of a building. It's sad we have to choose between the two.
He tells David in I Chronicles that he never asked for a temple.
But He does give detailed instructions for the tabernacle and does tell David that because David is a man of blood (as a warrior), David's son, a man of peace, would build GOD'S house.
Psalm 132
@@WilliamSwartzendruberand he still says that Solomon will build it
We're not in the Old Covenant. We don't worship at a temple but in spirit and truth
@@Niko-zg6uq Indeed.
Young men can become smug and arrogant, esp. with success in social platforms. He just needs to grow up. More brains than wisdom. I wish him well, although I can't stand to watch him.
Thank you pastor everhard.
This is a very respectable approach. I would bring up possibly leaving platforms like Instagram and TikTok. Just a side thought because there is so much sinful content there. Meta possibly also
Twitter too
One might argue that the PCUSA is not Presbyterian at all, is barely Christian, and those who are affiliated with it should leave or be considered anathematized until they do. But the same could be said of the church to which I have belonged all my life (UMC) for the same exact reasons.
Good thing there still are right-believing churches.
I grew up in the PCUS and remember when the PCA was formed. I was already starting to move away from the PCUS about that time. Over the years I have watched the PCUSA spiral downward into further degradation and radicalization. I am no longer a Presbyterian or Reformed. But it saddens me to see what my old nomination has become. I enjoy your videos, Matthew. Keep up the good work!
My hometown PCA lost the historic building to PCUS because there was an oil trust attached it which liberals wanted to retain above all else.A quick move to a smaller more modest building when the court battle was lost.
RZ essentially has two arguments.
1: The religious argument for Reformed Theology.
2: The cultural argument for retaking the mainline churches.
It’s necessary to separate the two, and the latter is definitely not for everyone.
I'm non denominational, and even though I have attended a Baptist Church for the latter part of my church going days, I never proclaimed to be a Baptist. Our Pastor taught Scripture without interjecting too many "I personally believe" statements in his sermons. The only reason I left that Church was because of a friend who was leaving her Presbyterian Church after a big political shake up. This was at least two decades ago and I honestly can't speak to what had occurred because it wasn't a denomination I knew anything about. We settled in a non denominational Church and remained there for a couple of years. However, when we first started attending, it was relatively small. After it experienced a sudden growth spurt, things changed, and not for the better. She returned to the Presbyterian Church, though not the same one she left, and I moved on to another non denominational Church. I always attended a Church for hearing the Holy Scriptures taught, period.
Well, there are many things that PCA should be critiqued for, but its not about buildings.
I disagree, and am disappointed by this post. (I'm a long-time fan of your channel., and will continue to be. This is the first negative review I have ever given you.) Redeemed Zoomer is not perfect, but I realize that when I listen to him. I "take what I need and leave the rest behind." But I love his youthful energy, his creativity, his ability to make complex topics understandable, and his interesting interviews and debates. The fact that he is an autodidact is not an issue with me - he knows more that many seminary graduates. If you are suggesting seminary graduates have some superior grasp of truth, that would be patronizing and plainly untrue. While Redeemed Zoomer may criticize, he is more balanced than many orthodox "discernment ministry" channels on TH-cam. Your disagreement seems to be focused on his concerns with the PCA - - okay, I agree with your view of the PCUSA, but I'm not going to throw out the baby with the bath water. I have learned much from him. Rather than this one-sided public attack, and encouraging people not to watch him, a more constructive Christian response would have been for you to invite him on your show for a debate to let him explain his views. I will continue to support Redeemed Zoomer, and frankly I think you owe him an apology.
Did you actually watch the whole video?
@@JenniferoftheSea Yes. What are you thinking I missed?
Let me be clear. I am a huge, long-time fan of Pastor Matt. I have learned much from his excellent ministry and hopefully will continue to do so. My only beef in this ONE case was that I also learn a lot from Redeemed Zoomer and I felt Pastor Matt was dismissing him just because for his reasons RZ favors the PCUSA over the PCA,. I agree with Pastor Matt that the PCUSA is a lost cause, but hey, if RZ can be a gospel witness, let him. But all that is just my take. This channel belongs to Pastor Matt and he works very hard at it (along with a million other responsibilities), so he should state his views, as he always does.
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus!
John 3:16
Romans 6:23❤😊❤❤
@@JohnDxianeye on it when I heard which denomination it was fun my my ears perked up to however I listened to him and I hear somebody who is grasping with the truth of the scripture and if he can't be an agent to restore that denomination he may be an agent who moves to another is doing work for god. We have to remember that young people do not know all the struggles of the PCA in the 60s and 70s or wherever. I remember my parents telling these stories but I didn't live them personally well I don't feel the same reversion that some people may have to the PC USA I do understand why I find them to be a questionable church and I would choose not to sit under them for that reason. However I think there is potential in in this other fellow simply because of the way he is learning and articulating he has the opportunity to grow and yes receive correction on things he doesn't understand as he grows play that many people who have been in the ministry for a decade or more are so fixing their ways that they can no longer hear anything fresh from the word. And for this reason I'm interested in hearing what he may have to say but there are certain things I'm never going to accept if he says them I feel like this is jumping too fast to cancel him specifically
What is the difference in PCA and ECO? The only presby church in my area is ECO and I cant find a definite answer on what sets it apart.
PCA gal here. Keep preaching truth, brother!
My take: RZ will convert to Roman Catholicism and take countless followers with him.
I’m a Catholic but I am a big supporter of your channel, and your work. I have been frustrated with RZ having seen some of his videos and how grossly he’s misrepresented Catholicism and seemingly doesn’t care. He comes off to me as a bit of a know it all in search of clicks and likes.
I’ll be honest, when he interviewed you a couple years ago it seemed like he kind of frustrated you with some of his questions, repeating the same questions and some of his dare I say “know it all-ism”.
The things he's said about Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox in his private communities are truly appalling.
@@SonsOfTitansoh wow I didn’t even know about that. That’s really unfortunate.
@@SonsOfTitans And the Baptists and Non-Denoms
@@the_hortator It’s really unfortunate, and has accomplished little more than to push people away - people, for whom, he’s offered nothing but scorn and derision.
Thank you, Matthew, for your comments, I think the PCUSA needs to repent long before they have a revival.
Good point on the especially if you have children avoid pcusa. That could be an age thing. As a married man and father I get your perspective. He I believe is single. Maybe for him it makes sense to stay there. But for fathers we should make sure our wives and children are protected first. For a single man or even an empty nester it might make sense to fight for a reformation.
I thought I would throw in my two uneducated cents. I respect Redeemed Zoomer a great deal. God used him to make me significantly stronger in my faith. I am also persuaded by his cause about retaking the mainline. Pastor Matt, I respect you very much as well. However I feel that you should take down this video and talk to redeemed zoomer directly.
Public things are dealt with publicly.
The video is okay but I would like to talk to him directly as well
Yeah you should contact him first before trying to get attention by attacking him.
Was Martin Luther a coward for "fleeing" the "historic" Roman Catholic church?
Yes, and also a heretic.
@@alm9322 So do you support burning heretics at the stake? That's what your church did when they had political power.
(Not a Presbyterian, but felt like venting here.) Even as a lifelong Christian I’ve learned a lot from RZ and find his memes hilarious! I’m so happy he has become a Christian and that he cares so much about the kingdom. However I do find it hard to engage with him when he seems repeatedly bent on bashing “evangelicals” and nondenom churches as well as more conservative classical Protestant groups. I’ve been to many evangelical/nondenom churches over my life and not one has had a smoke machine. None have been in a strip mall. And all have held to orthodox theology as per the Apostles and Nicene creeds.
Well you've had some very different experiences with Evanjellyfish/Non-denom churches. I definitely don't agree with Ackerman on everything. However, Evangelicalism is a blight and must die for there to be any true revival in America.
Think maybe you need to check out the history of the Covenanters. They did not leave their buildings because of 'faithfulness to the covenants' but because their signing of the rather nationalist (SCOTTISH Presbyterianism vs ENGLISH prelacy) document, The National League and Covenant (that is the covenant they take their name from). The Crown then tried to force prelacy and anglicanism upon them to the point of martyring some and driving out others, particularly ordained ministers, from their charges. That was why they had to worship in fields etc. Also their descendant church, the Reformed Presby Church in Ireland take a very high view of their church buildings which are architecturally very plain but are venerated as reflections of the tabernacle/temple. They are viewed as holy in the same way as the Temple and are not to be desecrated by bring the dead into the church for a funeral service/ service of remembrance/ service of thanksgiving prior to burial. They may not have idols in their churches but idolise their churches/sanctuaries. (I was a member of the Presby Church in Ireland before moving to Scotland and have strong family connections with and a lot of time for the Reformed Presbyterians but the denomination is not without some contentious [unbiblical?] points of view.)
I think saying that directly to RZ by email would have been the Christian thing to do (Matt 18:15).
Well, he didn't sin against me, and I am not claiming he has. Read the verse. We merely disagree on public *ideas* related to the church. I went out of my way to show that it was NOT personal, but substantial (of substance).
"If thy brother trespass against thee..." Mat18:15
This is a rather different situation though. When a man says things publicly, the things which he says are open to public critique.