*PLEASE NO SPOILERS IN THE COMMENTS SECTION* Support the channel and watch the next two episodes of Buffy as well as Angel reactions over at www.patreon.com/Haarute ! Thank you for tuning in and see you next time. Bye bye !
Riley expected Buffy to instantly forgive him for cheating, beg him to stay, and also promise that she'd make him feel needed. That's selfish and gross. Xander didn't want to lose another male friend, and was wrong for not speaking up sooner.
It doesn't matter who dumps who or how it ends. Despite what Xander thinks, at this point it's just good that it is over. I always felt bad for the actor who played Riley. It took him years to get back into the idea of the fandom because much of the fandom became rude towards him about his character during his run on the show and after. He was like the William Atherton (the guy who played Walter Peck in the first Ghostbusters movie) of the Buffyverse, until only a few yars ago. I've seen fans argue that Riley's attitude and character comes out of nowhere this season. I heavily argue that. Starting back in Something Blue, Riley says as the last line of the episode, "you're going to teach me." It has him telling her and not asking her. From there, Doomed comes along. In that episode, Buffy has genuine concerns about dating Riley. Despite having been casually dating Joe Normal Riley, she isn't ready to do so with soldier Riley because of her past with Angel, Faith and as the slayer. Riley calls her "stupid" and "self-involved" for not wanting to date him anymore. The reason this red flag usually isn't called out is because Riley hides the toxic masculinity attitude once Buffy decides to date him at the end of the episode. Personally, she wasn't ready to date. Willow and Riley both pushed her into it after Buffy said no. Riley lost his sense of self when The Initiative fell. Everything Adam said about Maggie designing him and being a "mother" to him had a ring of truth to it when he no longer knew how to handle life in general without the purpose The Initiative gave him. That purpose is now "The mission's boyfriend" (take care of Buffy while fighting at her side) as Graham eventually says to him (sad thing is that is in part why Angel needed to leave as well. He had no sense of self outside of being Buffy's boyfriend, either). In The Yoko Factor, Riley starts showing jealousy. Riley's jealousy isn't because of Xander or Angel directly (although I don't think Xander should have said anything to Riley about the curse or his opinions on it). People's jealousies are their own, even when other people trigger them. Then we come to the Buffy and Riley forgiveness moment of that episode. Riley saying, "I'm so in love with you I can't think straight" put all Riley's jealousy blame on Buffy while he continues to act jealous until this episode. With said jealousy comes a bigger urge to be "mission's boyfriend" (take even bigger care of Buffy than before) in order to fill The Initiative's void. But he struggles to keep up with Buffy and in Out of My Mind his body cannot take it after what The Initiative has done, and needs surgery. Riley told Xander in The Replacement Buffy didn't love him. His realization of that led to him deciding to purposely start getting bit, in Family, to understand Buffy. He gets caught in this episode. I don't think it's that Buffy doesn't love Riley. She fought against dating him knowing she wasn't ready to begin with. Riley was a long term rebound from Angel she cared about. A different kind of love than what Riley wanted from her. Riley's actions as a result show the side of him that was building since early S4 (although probably a lifelong issue for Riley). When the two of them argue, Riley actually says he isn't giving her an ultimatum when that is exactly what he is doing. Riley's excuses for getting bit are weak attempts to justify the metaphor of paying for a prostitute (the drug metaphor was there too, but Riley defined connections between vampires and sexuality as well as got sucked by female vampires specifically [one in particular]) before giving her an ultimatum and telling her that isn't what he was doing, followed by stating directly as a closing line, "Unless you give me a reason to stay, I'm leaving tonight." When Riley tells Buffy the vampires needed him specifically, as if they wouldn't just move on to the next human with a wad of cash and available blood, it shows how obsessed over Buffy he is and shows it isn't actually love on his part. Riley's getting love and obsession mixed up at this point and has become delusional if he thinks getting bit was the answer to her not opening up to people. She talked to him or asked him to open up when she saw he had heart issues, but he didn't until she forced the issue. But that doesn't mean pushing people to open up is the right answer either. Riley wanted to comfort her; to give his life that purpose of "Mission's boyfriend." Buffy's personality was already struggling with Riley wanting to do that as she is a strong, independent woman, but without The Initiative, Riley is depending on Buffy by trying to get her to depend on him. Buffy opens up to people and allows people to take care of her the way Riley was asking when they don't push her into said action and when she trusts the relationship enough. It took Giles until the end of Helpless (22 months) before Buffy opened up to him that way. Riley has known Buffy 14 months and they have only been dating 11 months. If he was patient and didn't push it by doing things like trying to lean her head on his shoulder when that wasn't her natural reaction (and leave his jealousy behind), eventually she would have allowed him to "take care of her." Being "on top of everything" is in her job description. Riley's reaction to not getting those things from Buffy is obsession. Not love. I disagree with Riley when he said he could handle Buffy being physically stronger. A part of Buffy's problem is that she feels that she has to be as emotionally strong as she is physically and I don't think Riley had figured that one out because he is the one that's dependent on her. None of this includes the fact that Riley was asking for Buffy to be comforted by him when her mom was in the hospital, either. How Riley handles the fallout of this episode is a natural progression from the first red flags of Riley saying, "You're going to teach me" and calling Buffy "stupid" and "self-involved" until giving his ultimatum in this episode. Xander is, in many ways, similar to Riley. That is why he identifies with Riley when Riley tells Xander Buffy doesn't love Riley. Xander is remembering Buffy turning him down in Prophecy Girl (and blocking out his own toxic reaction). Therefore when Buffy and Riley's relationship implodes, Xander guilted Buffy into chasing the helicopter down ("He's never held back with you," "think about what you're about to lose" and also him not caring that the ultimatum would lead to just as many problems in the Buffy/Riley relationship as they already have. None of these things seem to phase Xander. He is just identifying with Riley when nothing Riley has done is healthy to the relationship). Whether he guilted her intentionally or unintentionally is up for debate, but he acted like Riley's issues weren't part of the problem. Xander is pushing Buffy into his decision of what he wants her to do and not what she would do. I don't look at chasing the helicopter as a decision Buffy would have made if Xander didn't make her feel guilty. Buffy and Riley's problems are a reason to let Riley go and not chase after him. In my opinion, Xander was doing what he said he liked to do in Enemies: say "I told you so." Why didn't Xander bring their issues up to Buffy sooner if he was so worried? There has been nine weeks since Riley told Xander Buffy doesn't love him. Saying something only after it was too late (especially to the degree of how could you of not seen it coming Buffy) doesn't help the Buffy/Riley relationship even if Buffy had caught up to the helicopter. People claim he was trying to in an earlier episode. But under the circumstances metaphor was not the way to go. Directness was. Buffy and Riley have already shown on both sides non-communication skills since day one. Xander is identifying with Riley so much that he is showing Buffy blame without giving Riley at least equal due for Buffy and Riley's problems. Buffy turning it around on Xander shows that Xander didn't see the problems of his relationship with Anya anymore than he assumed Buffy should of been able to see hers with Riley. Buffy rebounding with Riley is a common thing to do in relationships. Xander didn't and wouldn't have saved the Riley/Buffy relationship. He waited nine weeks to say something, and even then, it was only when things were unsavable. Buffy said something as a result of Xander attacking her and might have saved the Xander/Anya relationship by saying Xander was using Anya as a convenience. Xander also states in other episodes indirectly that being the only guy his age in a mostly group of females is hard. He didn't want to be the only other male figure his age in the group. That combined with identifying with Riley made what he said to Buffy wrong. But there is nothing wrong with Buffy dating Riley as a rebound (despite initially arguing against dating him to begin with because she had genuine concerns about dating Riley). Xander tries to show Buffy reasons to save a relationship that's over, but actually lays out why they needed to end it more than give Buffy a reason to chase the helicopter. So when Buffy runs after Riley, it is Xander unintentionally choosing for her because he identifies with Riley. Xander attempted to talk to Riley a few times indirectly, but if he were as worried and aware about the relationship as he claims in that alley, he would have talked to Buffy as well, especially as he put a lot of blame on her for not loving Riley (which for a rebound is what is practically expected of that type of relationship - just a casual and/or fun time with few strings).
Ah, yes, some fans get really toxic when it comes to Riley. I think it's unfair. For me, Riley is not the guy that comes once in a lifetime, but that's just my taste, I find him dull. However, he did give everything up for Buffy. Not just his job, but his whole way of thinking, his whole world view. He didn't have to, but he chose to. And even if he did it for her, it's not her responsibility. But I do believe she could take that into account. In this very episode, she says that she gave him the day off, and told him to go hang with his friends. What friends? His Initiative friends are all gone or dead, and we never see him with anyone else. Does she not know that? People get really mad that he once called her self-involved, I think he was kinda right. I like Buffy a lot as a character, but she's not perfect. In any case, yes, Riley did something wrong, it was like a cheating in a way, but still, he's not a villain. Just a guy who made an awful choice. Buffy is not letting him in, she pushes him away a lot. And (again), she can be that way if she wants, or if she needs to, but it's not fair to him. I like that this is the end of the relationship. I think it's healthier for both parties, and also, better for the show XD I do like Xander's intervention. He's just showing Buffy stuff that she couldn't see. Of course, for drama purposes, it makes no difference XD But he's a good friend, like he is most of the time. And then he has a great moment with Anya, which is super nice for her, cause she is the one who says what she needs and wants from him, so this is important. And well, I'm guessing you're a few episodes ahead, so let's postpone the Joyce discussion...
I can’t stand Xander. He never got Buffy for himself and he hated Angel and resented his and Buffy’s relationship. Along comes Riley, a human that’s about as interesting as Amazon box packing. Xander can relate to him. Xander was out of line imo for what he said to Buffy. The bottom line is it’s just none of his business. Buffy’s personal life shouldn’t be Xander’s priority. I love that Spike showed Buffy what Riley was up to and in a rare scene I loved the interaction between Spike and Riley. Ain’t love grand?
If Xander really wanted to help Buffy, he would have told Buffy that Riley didn't think Buffy loved him. If Riley was mature enough, he would've told Buffy himself instead of doing the BTVS version of cutting
*PLEASE NO SPOILERS IN THE COMMENTS SECTION*
Support the channel and watch the next two episodes of Buffy as well as Angel reactions over at www.patreon.com/Haarute !
Thank you for tuning in and see you next time. Bye bye !
Didn't you just say you don't read comments?
Two really great Xander moments.
When my dad was dying, I absolutely didn't make my partner my priority. And he understood that.
Riley expected Buffy to instantly forgive him for cheating, beg him to stay, and also promise that she'd make him feel needed. That's selfish and gross.
Xander didn't want to lose another male friend, and was wrong for not speaking up sooner.
It doesn't matter who dumps who or how it ends. Despite what Xander thinks, at this point it's just good that it is over.
I always felt bad for the actor who played Riley. It took him years to get back into the idea of the fandom because much of the fandom became rude towards him about his character during his run on the show and after. He was like the William Atherton (the guy who played Walter Peck in the first Ghostbusters movie) of the Buffyverse, until only a few yars ago.
I've seen fans argue that Riley's attitude and character comes out of nowhere this season. I heavily argue that. Starting back in Something Blue, Riley says as the last line of the episode, "you're going to teach me." It has him telling her and not asking her.
From there, Doomed comes along. In that episode, Buffy has genuine concerns about dating Riley. Despite having been casually dating Joe Normal Riley, she isn't ready to do so with soldier Riley because of her past with Angel, Faith and as the slayer. Riley calls her "stupid" and "self-involved" for not wanting to date him anymore. The reason this red flag usually isn't called out is because Riley hides the toxic masculinity attitude once Buffy decides to date him at the end of the episode. Personally, she wasn't ready to date. Willow and Riley both pushed her into it after Buffy said no.
Riley lost his sense of self when The Initiative fell. Everything Adam said about Maggie designing him and being a "mother" to him had a ring of truth to it when he no longer knew how to handle life in general without the purpose The Initiative gave him. That purpose is now "The mission's boyfriend" (take care of Buffy while fighting at her side) as Graham eventually says to him (sad thing is that is in part why Angel needed to leave as well. He had no sense of self outside of being Buffy's boyfriend, either).
In The Yoko Factor, Riley starts showing jealousy. Riley's jealousy isn't because of Xander or Angel directly (although I don't think Xander should have said anything to Riley about the curse or his opinions on it). People's jealousies are their own, even when other people trigger them. Then we come to the Buffy and Riley forgiveness moment of that episode. Riley saying, "I'm so in love with you I can't think straight" put all Riley's jealousy blame on Buffy while he continues to act jealous until this episode.
With said jealousy comes a bigger urge to be "mission's boyfriend" (take even bigger care of Buffy than before) in order to fill The Initiative's void. But he struggles to keep up with Buffy and in Out of My Mind his body cannot take it after what The Initiative has done, and needs surgery.
Riley told Xander in The Replacement Buffy didn't love him. His realization of that led to him deciding to purposely start getting bit, in Family, to understand Buffy. He gets caught in this episode. I don't think it's that Buffy doesn't love Riley. She fought against dating him knowing she wasn't ready to begin with. Riley was a long term rebound from Angel she cared about. A different kind of love than what Riley wanted from her. Riley's actions as a result show the side of him that was building since early S4 (although probably a lifelong issue for Riley). When the two of them argue, Riley actually says he isn't giving her an ultimatum when that is exactly what he is doing.
Riley's excuses for getting bit are weak attempts to justify the metaphor of paying for a prostitute (the drug metaphor was there too, but Riley defined connections between vampires and sexuality as well as got sucked by female vampires specifically [one in particular]) before giving her an ultimatum and telling her that isn't what he was doing, followed by stating directly as a closing line, "Unless you give me a reason to stay, I'm leaving tonight."
When Riley tells Buffy the vampires needed him specifically, as if they wouldn't just move on to the next human with a wad of cash and available blood, it shows how obsessed over Buffy he is and shows it isn't actually love on his part. Riley's getting love and obsession mixed up at this point and has become delusional if he thinks getting bit was the answer to her not opening up to people. She talked to him or asked him to open up when she saw he had heart issues, but he didn't until she forced the issue.
But that doesn't mean pushing people to open up is the right answer either. Riley wanted to comfort her; to give his life that purpose of "Mission's boyfriend." Buffy's personality was already struggling with Riley wanting to do that as she is a strong, independent woman, but without The Initiative, Riley is depending on Buffy by trying to get her to depend on him. Buffy opens up to people and allows people to take care of her the way Riley was asking when they don't push her into said action and when she trusts the relationship enough. It took Giles until the end of Helpless (22 months) before Buffy opened up to him that way. Riley has known Buffy 14 months and they have only been dating 11 months. If he was patient and didn't push it by doing things like trying to lean her head on his shoulder when that wasn't her natural reaction (and leave his jealousy behind), eventually she would have allowed him to "take care of her."
Being "on top of everything" is in her job description. Riley's reaction to not getting those things from Buffy is obsession. Not love. I disagree with Riley when he said he could handle Buffy being physically stronger. A part of Buffy's problem is that she feels that she has to be as emotionally strong as she is physically and I don't think Riley had figured that one out because he is the one that's dependent on her.
None of this includes the fact that Riley was asking for Buffy to be comforted by him when her mom was in the hospital, either.
How Riley handles the fallout of this episode is a natural progression from the first red flags of Riley saying, "You're going to teach me" and calling Buffy "stupid" and "self-involved" until giving his ultimatum in this episode.
Xander is, in many ways, similar to Riley. That is why he identifies with Riley when Riley tells Xander Buffy doesn't love Riley. Xander is remembering Buffy turning him down in Prophecy Girl (and blocking out his own toxic reaction). Therefore when Buffy and Riley's relationship implodes, Xander guilted Buffy into chasing the helicopter down ("He's never held back with you," "think about what you're about to lose" and also him not caring that the ultimatum would lead to just as many problems in the Buffy/Riley relationship as they already have. None of these things seem to phase Xander. He is just identifying with Riley when nothing Riley has done is healthy to the relationship). Whether he guilted her intentionally or unintentionally is up for debate, but he acted like Riley's issues weren't part of the problem. Xander is pushing Buffy into his decision of what he wants her to do and not what she would do. I don't look at chasing the helicopter as a decision Buffy would have made if Xander didn't make her feel guilty. Buffy and Riley's problems are a reason to let Riley go and not chase after him. In my opinion, Xander was doing what he said he liked to do in Enemies: say "I told you so."
Why didn't Xander bring their issues up to Buffy sooner if he was so worried? There has been nine weeks since Riley told Xander Buffy doesn't love him. Saying something only after it was too late (especially to the degree of how could you of not seen it coming Buffy) doesn't help the Buffy/Riley relationship even if Buffy had caught up to the helicopter. People claim he was trying to in an earlier episode. But under the circumstances metaphor was not the way to go. Directness was. Buffy and Riley have already shown on both sides non-communication skills since day one. Xander is identifying with Riley so much that he is showing Buffy blame without giving Riley at least equal due for Buffy and Riley's problems.
Buffy turning it around on Xander shows that Xander didn't see the problems of his relationship with Anya anymore than he assumed Buffy should of been able to see hers with Riley. Buffy rebounding with Riley is a common thing to do in relationships. Xander didn't and wouldn't have saved the Riley/Buffy relationship. He waited nine weeks to say something, and even then, it was only when things were unsavable. Buffy said something as a result of Xander attacking her and might have saved the Xander/Anya relationship by saying Xander was using Anya as a convenience.
Xander also states in other episodes indirectly that being the only guy his age in a mostly group of females is hard. He didn't want to be the only other male figure his age in the group. That combined with identifying with Riley made what he said to Buffy wrong. But there is nothing wrong with Buffy dating Riley as a rebound (despite initially arguing against dating him to begin with because she had genuine concerns about dating Riley).
Xander tries to show Buffy reasons to save a relationship that's over, but actually lays out why they needed to end it more than give Buffy a reason to chase the helicopter. So when Buffy runs after Riley, it is Xander unintentionally choosing for her because he identifies with Riley. Xander attempted to talk to Riley a few times indirectly, but if he were as worried and aware about the relationship as he claims in that alley, he would have talked to Buffy as well, especially as he put a lot of blame on her for not loving Riley (which for a rebound is what is practically expected of that type of relationship - just a casual and/or fun time with few strings).
All of this.
Ah, yes, some fans get really toxic when it comes to Riley. I think it's unfair. For me, Riley is not the guy that comes once in a lifetime, but that's just my taste, I find him dull. However, he did give everything up for Buffy. Not just his job, but his whole way of thinking, his whole world view. He didn't have to, but he chose to. And even if he did it for her, it's not her responsibility. But I do believe she could take that into account. In this very episode, she says that she gave him the day off, and told him to go hang with his friends. What friends? His Initiative friends are all gone or dead, and we never see him with anyone else. Does she not know that? People get really mad that he once called her self-involved, I think he was kinda right. I like Buffy a lot as a character, but she's not perfect. In any case, yes, Riley did something wrong, it was like a cheating in a way, but still, he's not a villain. Just a guy who made an awful choice. Buffy is not letting him in, she pushes him away a lot. And (again), she can be that way if she wants, or if she needs to, but it's not fair to him. I like that this is the end of the relationship. I think it's healthier for both parties, and also, better for the show XD
I do like Xander's intervention. He's just showing Buffy stuff that she couldn't see. Of course, for drama purposes, it makes no difference XD But he's a good friend, like he is most of the time. And then he has a great moment with Anya, which is super nice for her, cause she is the one who says what she needs and wants from him, so this is important.
And well, I'm guessing you're a few episodes ahead, so let's postpone the Joyce discussion...
Also, if you ever get around to reading this comments, you'll notice a trend: people who hate Riley, love Spike. We can discuss later on...
I can’t stand Xander. He never got Buffy for himself and he hated Angel and resented his and Buffy’s relationship. Along comes Riley, a human that’s about as interesting as Amazon box packing. Xander can relate to him. Xander was out of line imo for what he said to Buffy. The bottom line is it’s just none of his business. Buffy’s personal life shouldn’t be Xander’s priority. I love that Spike showed Buffy what Riley was up to and in a rare scene I loved the interaction between Spike and Riley. Ain’t love grand?
If Xander really wanted to help Buffy, he would have told Buffy that Riley didn't think Buffy loved him. If Riley was mature enough, he would've told Buffy himself instead of doing the BTVS version of cutting
I just never felt any chemistry between Riley and Buffy.