Nice of you to cover the Grand army of the Republic in the Clone Wars multimedia project of the Expanded Universe. Since it wasn't as talked about as its own without TCW involved in it, due to it being more mainstream and more 2000s like me were exposed to it more along with it retconing much of the original CWMMP as well as retconing much of its events.
@@AshanBhatoa So just because George Lucas owns the show that we should ignore the damage being done by TCW in the EU or even the films. Even though he only give ideas around in the show while Dave Filoni is mostly in charge of the director's chair for each episode, nevermind that he was working a feature film at the time like Red flag movie.
@@bionic-tale4313 Lucas was still heavily involved with the first seasons early on. Things like giving Anakin a padawan and retconning Mandalore were his ideas(there is a reason why Filoni dropped the BS Mando pacifists in Rebels and the Mandalorian) so let's not pretend that he wasn't also responsible for the damage.
Most of the old EU seems to have been buried, the post endor stuff has seen somewhat of a resurgence thanks to the failure of the sequel trilogy, mandalorian and the filoni waifu show, but the original clone wars stuff seems to have been completely erased.
I think i just now get why Geonosis was an open field battle... Not just because - spectacle and visual flashiness rool of kewl. It was also the Sheer Urgency of the situation as a whole and the GAR not being at full readiness. Such as forces only being equipped initially for Ground Warfare. Yoda wanted to capture Dooku and the Separatist leadership before they could get away. To do that he needed to control the airspace around the Geonosis Great Arena. AND any or all obvious Ground Entrances too. Dooku was shown to be there and since he is the ring leader. Capturing him is utmost priority... 12 or so Acclamators of 20 total had to land all forces in an area specifically around the Great Arena... which just so happened to have much of the Droid Army's Transportation fleet. Of course there were too many oversights not taken into consideration. This mission was organized likely over the course of hours not months or weeks. Which months or weeks of planning and preparation are typical of real world military operations. Controlling such a large area **should** have secured the Separatist Leaders and Dooku BUT they quickly escaped during the chaos. There is an obvious time discrepancy depicted in the film too. Sorry... I had to put that into words.
37:03 That right there is the reason why the chip retcon is so stupid. It removes the actual emotions most of these clones felt during the war and replaces it with a black and white picture of their relationship with the jedi. Most clones would feel the same sense of betrayal after hearing a contingency plan issued, especially since the republic was everything to them.
Yes, and only ARC Troopers such as Fordo and Alpha are capable of thinking and acting independently, not Clone Troopers in general. Heck, even NULL ARCs are this rebellious, making the whole inhibitor chip thing meaningless concept. It alsl rips off the slave chip that were made in Tatooine I believe.
@@ChinonsoNnadozieyeah nice try, it made perfect sense before TCW retconned the Clones into not being brainwashed from birth, something established in Episode II.
Wow, when you said comprehensive you weren't kidding! Great video, really enjoyable and informative. I discovered your channel a few months back and was SO pleased by what I found: a Star Wars fan after my own heart! We need more people like you to keep the EU/Legends flame alive in these dark times of Disney Star Wars. Keep up the good work!
@@matem1649brother. The 2008 show completely wrecks the og lore regardless of these basic facts that correlate with the movies and a few more parts of the EU.
@@idkstudios4412 My opinion has changed since I made this comment because in the time since I made this comment I watched Tadd videos on TCW and gained a new perspective on it so this comment is now outdated
Another amazing video tadd! Sorry that the old discord server didn't work out as expected, but I still hope to see your channel grow and continue making this amazing content.
I love this Order 66 explanation, it fit more Episode II lore stated by Taun Wee, against this childish idea of chips. I can't wait to see similar videos about the Galactic Empire and Sith armies !
Hi Tadd, I have been watching your videos the past couple of weeks and still catching up but I would love to see a lore video on Janek "Tank" Sunber (featured in the "Empire" and has an arc in the "Rebellion" series of comics from Dark Horse) who was one of Luke's friends growing up on Tatooine that joined the Empire and became a Lieutenant in the Imperial Army. The comics featuring him are excellent reads and despite reading them multiple times I still enjoy them to this day. Unfortunately even before George sold Star Wars, Sunber's ultimate fate was left unresolved but despite that the stories featuring him I feel are underrated and the conflict between him and Luke when they finally meet each other was great. Apart from that I feel like the Acclamator-class Assault Ship could also make a good video subject. Otherwise I wanted to say I love the video format and the presentation! It's great to see someone out there talk about Expanded Universe lore the way it originally was before TCW retconning.
Given how Cestus Deception(a year into the clone wars) says that 1 million clones have died and Triple Zero stating that there are 3 million clones during that same timeframe, it leads me to believe that there were at least a few more million soldiers being produced during the war. Also btw what is happening with the new discord?
I wish The Clone Wars and Bad Batch abided by the clone types or castes more; Null Troopers - Chances of Defection Guaranteed ARC Troopers - Chances of Defection High Republic Commandos - Chances of Defection Probably But Unlikely Clone Commanders (and I guess a Blonde Captain as well) - Chances of Defection Unlikely but not Zero Clone Troopers - Chances of Defection Zero Percent unless a very special circumstance occurs such as belief in false orders or missing the order 66 communication Trooper Squad 99 would exist between the ARC and RC defection chances, as they are hybrids so they aren't as regimented as there more common brothers. Sadly Clone Wars (2008) seemed to despise the more advance clones - Republic Commandos are treated like just advanced stormtroopers, they seem to forget that under the new lord the RC's are as much victims of the Empire as the rest of the Clone Army, but often get gunned down by the good guys for essentially being brain washed. Also RC and ARCs seemed to switch elements of lore around. It appeared in Clone Wars the RC were the special category where you had to be born an RC to be an RC. Whereas ARCs to replace battlefield losses would let Regs who demonstrated there individuality and skill on the battlefield join the ARC troopers. I assume this change is due to the fact the RC's look the most distinct and the ARCS look like well... Clone Commanders essentially. Plus the Null and Training Sargent's are jettisoned from the lore. Also the Chips are the worse thing I've ever seen added to the lore. It genuinely sad as it A) unnessaccry the clones are bread to obey orders, any orders, unless they are a particularly stubborn caste of clones and B) it removes Clone Agency
@@CyberKid-1995I guess but I highly doubt that George thought up of the chips for the clones as it wasn't even mentioned in ROTS. Not to mention that Filoni had most creative control of the project, it is true that George Lucas payed for the show and give ideas but Filoni is mostly the one being in charge of directing most of it. Not to mention that to mention that Filoni would often go over George Lucas to have his way to like keeping Ahsoka alive despite the fact that she was originally supposed to die before ROTS, but Filoni hid the final cut from George and even bragged about it in the special featurette in the wrong Jedi. Another thing to note that Nulls and Alpha ARCS are made to be the best of the best since they are more independent than the standard Clone Troopers, and even Commandos for their specialized roles since they're trained by Jango Fett himself.
I never placed all my opinions on George he opened his universe up to other writers and artists who contributed greatly to his work. In George Lucas mind 1000 years before the movies the Republic came into existence and the sith ruled. So no Revan, Exar Kun, Sion, The Council on Dantooine, Keria, The Sith Brotherhood - all that can't exist because of something Lucas prefers. But I like that stuff, in fact no KOTOR means I'd have never gotten into the series.
Too little has been explained of the fate of the clones after the war and most of it has been redcon by the heresy of TCW. The only piece that I know is the one from battlefront 2(2005) the story of the 501st Vader's Fist. I've always wanted to know more about the other clones not just Vader's boys and if it weren't by this video probably would never know where the "others" came from after the kaminoan rebellion. Cool video hope to see more about clone lore. Btw Tadd could you recommend darkhorse comics of this topic?
It’s so nice hearing “palpatine, who went only by his family name” instead of “sheev”, I hate that name so much. It’s so refreshing to watch a video by a true legends fan who doesn’t bow to the algorithm and make disney approved content. It’s also SO nice to not see TCW 2008 content in this.
@@matem1649overrated doesn’t mean it’s all 100% completely bad. I don’t hate the 2008 clone wars but it’s certainly not as deep or revolutionary as people make it out to be. Most stuff people praise it for was done before 2008 and way better and those creators never get the love they deserve. But it still had some good characters and moments in it. And some pretty cool clone designs.
Ner'vod, do you know the issue with Spar in EU? That in some old comics he regained Jango Fett memories, was the mandalore and Fenn Shysa fought GAR alongside him, but in Karen Traviss books he is a bit out of character, there are no mandalorian protectors and he only agrees to play a role of mandalore with Fenn Shysa being an actual leader. Since it is obviously a retcon, I'd like to know which version was 'canon' in EU and can we somehow connect republic commando series into EU continuity if this retcon is 'non-canon'?
What makes it more confusing is that Traviss wrote both the "History of the Mandalorians" Article as well as RC. Its one of those questions I would ask her if I ever got to meet her, however there has to be a way to reconcile the 2 portrayals in the meantime and thats something I'll have to undertake when I eventually do a video about him.
35:55: Were most of the Jedi mostly wiped out by the original Kamino clones, or did both the Kamino clones and Spaarti clones carry out Order 66? The Kamino clones spent more time among the Jedi over the course of the Clone Wars and were therefore more closely tied to them than the Spaarti clones, who probably expressed less individuality and were not as close to the Jedi, which made it much easier for them to execute Order 66. Does it also mean that the majority of the Kamino clones still fired at their Jedi generals without hesitation (and of course without the existence of the inhibitor chips, since this channel only refers to Legends material) as soon as Order 66 was issued?
We don't have an exact ratio of Kamino clones to Spaarti clones, but it's implied that by the final months of the war, the Spaarti clones made up a significant portion of divisions. However, as stated in the video, there's evidence that the contingency orders were part of the Kamino clones' indoctrination since before the war began
Great video! I always thought the 3 million number seemed way too small, it always bugged me that no sources ever bothered to fix that number. Question: Could you make a similar break down video for other armies? Like the CIS and Alliance militaries?
36:07: Well. It depends on how the relationship between the clones and their Jedi generals was like: since this channel is only about Star Wars EU and pre-TCW material, the Jedi and clones were mentally not as close to each other as they are in New Canon material such as TCW. They had much more of a professional relationship rather than a true friendship. Their relationship was more like the one with Pong Krell only without the evil asshole side of his. And the clones were not as individual as they are in TCW, except for ARC-troopers and Clone Commandos, who were purer copies of Jango Fett himself and had different genetic modification and were less heavily indoctrinated to make them more independent thinkers. And that level of independence made them mentally able to disobey Order 66. The rank and file clones are still human and able to think negatively of specific orders such as Order 66 but were so heavily conditioned (genetically and upbringing) that they didn't even realize they had a chance to disobey. And since the Jedi and clones didn't make bonds as strong as in TCW, the rank and file clones didn't develop individuality at the same level as in TCW and thus didn't struggle that much to execute their Jedi general willingly when they're ordered to. That's why the inhibitor-chips don't exist in that continuity since they aren't needed.
Yeah youtube sucks at notifying subscribers. Checking my page every month or 2 is a better way. I always change the "for returning subscribers" feature video after every new lore video upload
which in my opinion make more sense than chip because seriously clone born to become soldier, only taught them about war, follow order even morally awful in obedience, and heavily augmented to follow order no matter what. in decade these clone trooper will become a perfect soldier who follow order without question, just like darth sidius wanted it. Because of decade of training, the jedi did not expect clone trooper to betray them because they been following order in obedience and because of the manipulative and brainwashing clone trooper taught through from training from birth in kamino, they are lets say less emotion and lack express their feeling because of that the jedi did not sense hate, malice, or despise from the clone who have been fighting side by side with the jedi years.
Are the clones in this video/topic actually supposed to be much more similar to the ones from Genndy Tartakovsky's "Star Wars: Clone Wars" from 2003 or a mix of this show and Dave Filoni's "Star Wars: The Clone Wars"?
@dennis.edich1998 the answers your looking for are in the video description. As a general rule of thumb, all of my videos are in the context of the Expanded Universe (aka "Legends" which was the established canon before the Disney buy-out) but I also don't take into account the Filoni-verse so, I take the time to basically "un-retcon" the TCW changes from the EU. It's explained better in the video description.
It seems that most named clone commanders and captains, regardless of subrank, also directly lead a smaller group within that unit who may primarily be there as the best troopers for protection of high ranking clones on field ops who are ergo most often with the jedi when leading the charge. Perhaps on a more sinister level, it's so that there is always a contingent of clones around a jedi for when the time comes to execute order 66. Also, heavily specialized clones such as flame troopers may have formed as an individual unit due to being so niche it's easier to train and equip them together first, then assign them to other units as needed, like EODs or JTACs in real life. I like the clone ranking structure, even though it's all over the place at times, because it appears to be very flexible to the demands of a galaxy wide war. Every system may vary wildly from each other with sizes of systems, to sizes of planetary enemy forces and even the number of planets within each system. Given how often clones are depleted and how ships may take a relatively long time to bring reinforcements, it sounds more ideal to form ad hoc units for certain tasks on the fly than waiting to reform, even if they remain permanent. One really good example of this is towards the end of the clone wars show when Anakin promotes Rex and splits a part of the 501st to fight on Mandalore with Ashoka while he takes the main force to Coruscant
Great video, however Phase 1 clone armour could sustain troops in vacuum for a time. For example the wolfpack clones which left their escape pod with Plo Koon outside The Malevolence in season 1 of Star Wars: The Clone Wars.
I love that video so much 🫶 Good Job 👍 I love the original version of Order 66 and the clones in general so much more, when the clones were genetically modified and totally brainwashed to be absolutely loyal to the Republic and Chancellor Palpatine above their relationship to their Jedi generals and when orders were orders. And they also knew about Order 66, they weren't actively waiting for it to be issued, but they were totally aware of it. That is the true slave army of the Republic, not the individual characters with hopes and dreams and being mind-controlled by some bio-chip to guarantee their loyalty to their true purpose, which is Order 66. TCW kinda missed the point by portraying the clones the way they are in this show. The clones did not need humanization, why did the clones that were raised and indoctrinated for war and carry out the orders of the Republic need that much humanization? Clones are strictly ideologically precessed beings. The chip only spoiled the whole ideas of the clones, which plays very stupidly. The clones are supposed to be like what they are in the EU. It's kind of a shame people think clone troopers should follow TCW's flawed simplistic ideas of what the clones are and not thinking about how little sense it makes in-universe and that the original version (Indoctrination and genetic modification) is way better.
Would you be willing to make a post/video of all the individual comics, games, shows etc. Involved in the clone wars mmp i really want to get into it but have no clue what is considered part of the mmp
If you remember me I had earlier made a comment about the clone wars between canon and legends, and you had mentioned to check out this vid about order 66 and.... I personally still perfer the canon version, I get that most of the clones still commited it even if they didnt want tp, but there was some that didnt do it at all, and I feel that palpatine woudnt want to risk most of the clones not doing orfer 66, he has calculated everything for years by that point, he woudnt want to risk it all. But just my opinion, I will respect yours, and I still like legends order 66, especially that goated 501st clone line from the novel.
Yeah. In Legends, there were some special clones like the ARC-troopers (who were trained by Jango Fett himself) and Clone Commandos, who were much more independent, less indoctrinated to blindly follow orders and had more free will than regular clones due to their different genetic and upbringing, like Ion-Squad and Delta-Squad. Those were much purer copies of Jango Fett. Those were mostly the type of clones who refused to carry out Order 66 since they had the right mindset to disobey while most regular clones did execute the order, even if many of them didn't even want to.
As much as I now love Rex, Fives, The Bad Batch, and the other Clones from TCW, I also love how they were handled in the EU. The Alpha-class ARCs were almost like super soldiers, similar to the SPARTANs from the Halo games.
You have to consider they wouldn't 9f fought a ww2 style front and highly mobile often fighting for strategic points of a planet like the capital, spaceport, or facility be it a dockyard, factory or mine so troops per planet with high mobility can greatly reduce numbers droids in open ground can be dealt with with air strikes or orbital bombardment so I think at the start 3,000,00 and at the end something like 6,000,000 minus casualties possibly 9 or 12,000,000 alltogether with cost of equipment (ships, fighters, tanks), troopers, and supplies
Wait the Jedi Order didn’t become the Judicial department of the Galactic senate. They were placed under the supervision of the Judicial Department once the ruusan reformation was in place. The Jedi Order and Judicial department are two separate things. The Ruusan Reformation denounced all the Jedis military ranks and their primary function from then on was to answer to the elected officials of the Senate (meaning they became ambassadors like we see in TPM). Love the video, love the channel, but I just wanted to point out that one thing
The first three Republic commando books were amazing. I was deeply invested in the family Spartan warrior dynamics. But I felt Travis was rushed when writing order 66 and imperial commando. And as a result were not as good.
So I'm writing a Star Wars story that covers the "unseen battles" that were never explored of the Clone Wars period, both TCW and 2003-05 CWMMP. If the storyline revolves around a preexisting OC from the EU comics but is told in the TCW animation style, how does that sound to you? It will reference events of both Clone Wars timelines but is focused as a Band of Brothers style story about the clones and their Jedi General with their own war stories that tie both continuities as best it can. Yes TCW and CWMMP obviously don't fit, this is meant to be a love letter to the fans that enjoy both interpretations of how the Clone Wars went down. I just wanted to know how a series like this sounds to you, Tadd Lar'ken, since you're the most qualified person imo to give your thoughts on a "fanfiction" CW story like this. Thank you. (e.g. 'Battle of Tibrin' - first mentioned in Labyrinth of Evil. Tied to the comic Jedi: Count Dooku but mentioned heavily in TCW season 1. Rex and Cody participate and Gree adopts the "double stripe" hairstyle. EU battle explored in TCW but unsure of its Legends canonicity)
Nope, the 187th first appeared as Hasboro figures in 2006 and got a little blurb on the back of the packaging. Maybe the post-buyout canon has them a bit more fleshed out with actual stories but I wouldn't have a clue.
@@Manda-LORE okay, neat. You're much more knowledgeable about this than me lol. Btw I'm glad you addressed the whole "organic droid" myth that Canon and even many Legends fans have propagated
I started recording part 9 today actually and I finished the script last week. I'm splitting the new Republic Era into 2 videos for the sheer ammount of information being covered in that 20 year span.
The real question is the numbers. karen Traviss tried to shoehorn 3 million clones on the low end, while curtis Saxton gave us hundreds of millions on the high end
Because I couldn't find any good illustrations of old clones in a nursing home, and there's no official artwork depicting that either, so I went with the hobo clone from Kenobi.
I finally finished the clone wars multimedia project. The comics had the best stories. Most of the novels were mostly passable in quality. Shatterpoint was definitely the best among the novels. Windus adversary reminded me of bane from batman.
The 150 contendincy orders don't make a lot of sense really. Why would the jedi want to fight with an army that can execute them on the spot on the chancellor's orders?🤔 Also wouldn't palpatine want his soldiers to be brainwashed to ensure whether or not they want to they carry out order 66? Instead of them betraying the order and rebelling? Cause palpatine would rather have the clones be obedient slaves than has an ounce of emotion and loyalty to the jedi in this critical order that the sith have been planing for over a millennia. So i defend the inhibitor chips
The army was engineered to be 100% loyal and indoctrinated to the Republic. They were not loyal to palpatine they were loyal to the GAR and if palpatine was swapped with any other person they'd follow their orders all the same. The jedi were most likely put at ease by seeing that the clones had multiple execution orders for different people as a last case contingency and knowing it wasn't specifically to execute all jedi but rather just jedi traitors.
![The Ultimate Guide to the Republic’s Greatest Vehicular Creations of the Clone Wars [Volume 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/W1VaJPhhZ2E/mqdefault.jpg)
Nice of you to cover the Grand army of the Republic in the Clone Wars multimedia project of the Expanded Universe. Since it wasn't as talked about as its own without TCW involved in it, due to it being more mainstream and more 2000s like me were exposed to it more along with it retconing much of the original CWMMP as well as retconing much of its events.
Well, that's the reality. Lucas' prerogative on TCW is clear, as opposed to what an pro-EU bias would suggest.
@@AshanBhatoa So just because George Lucas owns the show that we should ignore the damage being done by TCW in the EU or even the films. Even though he only give ideas around in the show while Dave Filoni is mostly in charge of the director's chair for each episode, nevermind that he was working a feature film at the time like Red flag movie.
@@bionic-tale4313 Lucas was still heavily involved with the first seasons early on. Things like giving Anakin a padawan and retconning Mandalore were his ideas(there is a reason why Filoni dropped the BS Mando pacifists in Rebels and the Mandalorian) so let's not pretend that he wasn't also responsible for the damage.
@@deadshot5007 yeah I like tcw but I agree that it doesn't work in legends as such I only view it as part of canon
@@AshanBhatoa Doesn't really matter, if that was lucas' vision then his vision was cloudy and it kinda sucked.
I'm a simple man. I see new Manda-LORE, I click. Simple as
Glad to see the only non-TCW lore channel on youtube still uploading
Most of the old EU seems to have been buried, the post endor stuff has seen somewhat of a resurgence thanks to the failure of the sequel trilogy, mandalorian and the filoni waifu show, but the original clone wars stuff seems to have been completely erased.
Thank you for your work.
Legends never die.
I think i just now get why Geonosis was an open field battle... Not just because - spectacle and visual flashiness rool of kewl. It was also the Sheer Urgency of the situation as a whole and the GAR not being at full readiness. Such as forces only being equipped initially for Ground Warfare.
Yoda wanted to capture Dooku and the Separatist leadership before they could get away. To do that he needed to control the airspace around the Geonosis Great Arena. AND any or all obvious Ground Entrances too. Dooku was shown to be there and since he is the ring leader. Capturing him is utmost priority...
12 or so Acclamators of 20 total had to land all forces in an area specifically around the Great Arena... which just so happened to have much of the Droid Army's Transportation fleet.
Of course there were too many oversights not taken into consideration.
This mission was organized likely over the course of hours not months or weeks. Which months or weeks of planning and preparation are typical of real world military operations.
Controlling such a large area **should** have secured the Separatist Leaders and Dooku BUT they quickly escaped during the chaos. There is an obvious time discrepancy depicted in the film too.
Sorry... I had to put that into words.
return of the goat
Speed of Hermes! Thank you, Lore Master!
37:03 That right there is the reason why the chip retcon is so stupid. It removes the actual emotions most of these clones felt during the war and replaces it with a black and white picture of their relationship with the jedi. Most clones would feel the same sense of betrayal after hearing a contingency plan issued, especially since the republic was everything to them.
Yes, and only ARC Troopers such as Fordo and Alpha are capable of thinking and acting independently, not Clone Troopers in general. Heck, even NULL ARCs are this rebellious, making the whole inhibitor chip thing meaningless concept. It alsl rips off the slave chip that were made in Tatooine I believe.
Without the inhibitor chips order 66 doesn't make any sense.
@@ChinonsoNnadozieyeah nice try, it made perfect sense before TCW retconned the Clones into not being brainwashed from birth, something established in Episode II.
Wow, when you said comprehensive you weren't kidding! Great video, really enjoyable and informative. I discovered your channel a few months back and was SO pleased by what I found: a Star Wars fan after my own heart! We need more people like you to keep the EU/Legends flame alive in these dark times of Disney Star Wars. Keep up the good work!
The Legends expert here once again, rejoice.
Always hyped when a new video drops.
a video on the clones without any bit from the tcw heresy. A nice late Christmas present
well to be fair most of what is said in this video remains intact and untouched by tcw
@@matem1649brother. The 2008 show completely wrecks the og lore regardless of these basic facts that correlate with the movies and a few more parts of the EU.
@@idkstudios4412 My opinion has changed since I made this comment because in the time since I made this comment I watched Tadd videos on TCW and gained a new perspective on it so this comment is now outdated
as such I recommend ignoring the comment
Some underrated characters I honestly think deserve a video (if you have the time):
- Zayne Carrick
- Jax Pavan
- Dass Jennir
Another amazing video tadd! Sorry that the old discord server didn't work out as expected, but I still hope to see your channel grow and continue making this amazing content.
Absolute legend.
I love this Order 66 explanation, it fit more Episode II lore stated by Taun Wee, against this childish idea of chips.
I can't wait to see similar videos about the Galactic Empire and Sith armies !
If you are doing a tech video. I need furthest clarity about the SPHA-T variants. The largest walker in Star Wars
Thank you for taking the time to bring us this level of quality!
Hi Tadd, I have been watching your videos the past couple of weeks and still catching up but I would love to see a lore video on Janek "Tank" Sunber (featured in the "Empire" and has an arc in the "Rebellion" series of comics from Dark Horse) who was one of Luke's friends growing up on Tatooine that joined the Empire and became a Lieutenant in the Imperial Army. The comics featuring him are excellent reads and despite reading them multiple times I still enjoy them to this day. Unfortunately even before George sold Star Wars, Sunber's ultimate fate was left unresolved but despite that the stories featuring him I feel are underrated and the conflict between him and Luke when they finally meet each other was great.
Apart from that I feel like the Acclamator-class Assault Ship could also make a good video subject. Otherwise I wanted to say I love the video format and the presentation! It's great to see someone out there talk about Expanded Universe lore the way it originally was before TCW retconning.
Trooper
Given how Cestus Deception(a year into the clone wars) says that 1 million clones have died and Triple Zero stating that there are 3 million clones during that same timeframe, it leads me to believe that there were at least a few more million soldiers being produced during the war.
Also btw what is happening with the new discord?
Love your videos man nobody does it like you 😊😊🙌🙏
I wish The Clone Wars and Bad Batch abided by the clone types or castes more;
Null Troopers - Chances of Defection Guaranteed
ARC Troopers - Chances of Defection High
Republic Commandos - Chances of Defection Probably But Unlikely
Clone Commanders (and I guess a Blonde Captain as well) - Chances of Defection Unlikely but not Zero
Clone Troopers - Chances of Defection Zero Percent unless a very special circumstance occurs such as belief in false orders or missing the order 66 communication
Trooper Squad 99 would exist between the ARC and RC defection chances, as they are hybrids so they aren't as regimented as there more common brothers.
Sadly Clone Wars (2008) seemed to despise the more advance clones - Republic Commandos are treated like just advanced stormtroopers, they seem to forget that under the new lord the RC's are as much victims of the Empire as the rest of the Clone Army, but often get gunned down by the good guys for essentially being brain washed.
Also RC and ARCs seemed to switch elements of lore around. It appeared in Clone Wars the RC were the special category where you had to be born an RC to be an RC. Whereas ARCs to replace battlefield losses would let Regs who demonstrated there individuality and skill on the battlefield join the ARC troopers. I assume this change is due to the fact the RC's look the most distinct and the ARCS look like well... Clone Commanders essentially.
Plus the Null and Training Sargent's are jettisoned from the lore.
Also the Chips are the worse thing I've ever seen added to the lore. It genuinely sad as it A) unnessaccry the clones are bread to obey orders, any orders, unless they are a particularly stubborn caste of clones and B) it removes Clone Agency
Nulls and Alphas are a thing of Legends now and when you said TCW despises is because of George's decision.
@@CyberKid-1995I guess but I highly doubt that George thought up of the chips for the clones as it wasn't even mentioned in ROTS. Not to mention that Filoni had most creative control of the project, it is true that George Lucas payed for the show and give ideas but Filoni is mostly the one being in charge of directing most of it. Not to mention that to mention that Filoni would often go over George Lucas to have his way to like keeping Ahsoka alive despite the fact that she was originally supposed to die before ROTS, but Filoni hid the final cut from George and even bragged about it in the special featurette in the wrong Jedi.
Another thing to note that Nulls and Alpha ARCS are made to be the best of the best since they are more independent than the standard Clone Troopers, and even Commandos for their specialized roles since they're trained by Jango Fett himself.
I never placed all my opinions on George he opened his universe up to other writers and artists who contributed greatly to his work. In George Lucas mind 1000 years before the movies the Republic came into existence and the sith ruled.
So no Revan, Exar Kun, Sion, The Council on Dantooine, Keria, The Sith Brotherhood - all that can't exist because of something Lucas prefers.
But I like that stuff, in fact no KOTOR means I'd have never gotten into the series.
@@bionic-tale4313 The Nulls and Alphas being highly independent even if they could've have inhibitor chips as well...but you can keep that opinion.
@@unlimitedgamerworks6125 No Grey Jedi as well because it just actually defeats the notion of what is Light vs Dark side.
There's reason enough.
Or Supreme Chancellor Finis Volarum's pre-TCW biography.
Too little has been explained of the fate of the clones after the war and most of it has been redcon by the heresy of TCW. The only piece that I know is the one from battlefront 2(2005) the story of the 501st Vader's Fist. I've always wanted to know more about the other clones not just Vader's boys and if it weren't by this video probably would never know where the "others" came from after the kaminoan rebellion. Cool video hope to see more about clone lore.
Btw Tadd could you recommend darkhorse comics of this topic?
You can thank Phoney Filoni for that idea. The man is a pitiful hack.
This is so well made !
It’s so nice hearing “palpatine, who went only by his family name” instead of “sheev”, I hate that name so much. It’s so refreshing to watch a video by a true legends fan who doesn’t bow to the algorithm and make disney approved content. It’s also SO nice to not see TCW 2008 content in this.
Real, TCW 2008 is the most overrated piece of Star Wars media ever produced imo
@@idkstudios4412 well I like it but I respect your opinion
@@matem1649overrated doesn’t mean it’s all 100% completely bad. I don’t hate the 2008 clone wars but it’s certainly not as deep or revolutionary as people make it out to be. Most stuff people praise it for was done before 2008 and way better and those creators never get the love they deserve. But it still had some good characters and moments in it. And some pretty cool clone designs.
Glad to see you back my friend
Plz do Evan Piell's pre-TCW biography.
agreed because I although I like tcw it really doesn't in legends as such I only view it as part of cannon
A christmas Present From Tadd?
I'LL GLADLY RECIEVE IT
More lore videos the better!
A Comprehensive Guide to the New Republic Army and Navy
Please
Ner'vod, do you know the issue with Spar in EU? That in some old comics he regained Jango Fett memories, was the mandalore and Fenn Shysa fought GAR alongside him, but in Karen Traviss books he is a bit out of character, there are no mandalorian protectors and he only agrees to play a role of mandalore with Fenn Shysa being an actual leader. Since it is obviously a retcon, I'd like to know which version was 'canon' in EU and can we somehow connect republic commando series into EU continuity if this retcon is 'non-canon'?
What makes it more confusing is that Traviss wrote both the "History of the Mandalorians" Article as well as RC. Its one of those questions I would ask her if I ever got to meet her, however there has to be a way to reconcile the 2 portrayals in the meantime and thats something I'll have to undertake when I eventually do a video about him.
Narrative sources would overwrite sourcebook lore
When you gonna do another timeline video specifically the New Republic era i have really enjoyed your take on them. Great video and thank you!!
Came here from Captain Fordo channel, Legends never die.
35:55:
Were most of the Jedi mostly wiped out by the original Kamino clones, or did both the Kamino clones and Spaarti clones carry out Order 66?
The Kamino clones spent more time among the Jedi over the course of the Clone Wars and were therefore more closely tied to them than the Spaarti clones, who probably expressed less individuality and were not as close to the Jedi, which made it much easier for them to execute Order 66. Does it also mean that the majority of the Kamino clones still fired at their Jedi generals without hesitation (and of course without the existence of the inhibitor chips, since this channel only refers to Legends material) as soon as Order 66 was issued?
We don't have an exact ratio of Kamino clones to Spaarti clones, but it's implied that by the final months of the war, the Spaarti clones made up a significant portion of divisions. However, as stated in the video, there's evidence that the contingency orders were part of the Kamino clones' indoctrination since before the war began
Having a creator make stuff about the lore i grew up with is awesome. None of this inhibitor chip filoni bologne.
Great video! I always thought the 3 million number seemed way too small, it always bugged me that no sources ever bothered to fix that number.
Question: Could you make a similar break down video for other armies? Like the CIS and Alliance militaries?
Great video! Thanks.
He's back
36:07:
Well. It depends on how the relationship between the clones and their Jedi generals was like: since this channel is only about Star Wars EU and pre-TCW material, the Jedi and clones were mentally not as close to each other as they are in New Canon material such as TCW. They had much more of a professional relationship rather than a true friendship. Their relationship was more like the one with Pong Krell only without the evil asshole side of his. And the clones were not as individual as they are in TCW, except for ARC-troopers and Clone Commandos, who were purer copies of Jango Fett himself and had different genetic modification and were less heavily indoctrinated to make them more independent thinkers. And that level of independence made them mentally able to disobey Order 66. The rank and file clones are still human and able to think negatively of specific orders such as Order 66 but were so heavily conditioned (genetically and upbringing) that they didn't even realize they had a chance to disobey.
And since the Jedi and clones didn't make bonds as strong as in TCW, the rank and file clones didn't develop individuality at the same level as in TCW and thus didn't struggle that much to execute their Jedi general willingly when they're ordered to.
That's why the inhibitor-chips don't exist in that continuity since they aren't needed.
Christmas strikes again this year
Legends endures!
Dang, I normally see these the day they come out but this one didn't show up. Went to the channel page to see if I missed anything and there it was.
Yeah youtube sucks at notifying subscribers. Checking my page every month or 2 is a better way. I always change the "for returning subscribers" feature video after every new lore video upload
Excellent video. Love the format.
Would be super stoked to see you make a Legends CIS video. 🤩
Oh no doubt, I will eventually do one for the CIS
which in my opinion make more sense than chip because seriously clone born to become soldier, only taught them about war, follow order even morally awful in obedience, and heavily augmented to follow order no matter what. in decade these clone trooper will become a perfect soldier who follow order without question, just like darth sidius wanted it. Because of decade of training, the jedi did not expect clone trooper to betray them because they been following order in obedience and because of the manipulative and brainwashing clone trooper taught through from training from birth in kamino, they are lets say less emotion and lack express their feeling because of that the jedi did not sense hate, malice, or despise from the clone who have been fighting side by side with the jedi years.
Are the clones in this video/topic actually supposed to be much more similar to the ones from Genndy Tartakovsky's "Star Wars: Clone Wars" from 2003 or a mix of this show and Dave Filoni's "Star Wars: The Clone Wars"?
@dennis.edich1998 the answers your looking for are in the video description. As a general rule of thumb, all of my videos are in the context of the Expanded Universe (aka "Legends" which was the established canon before the Disney buy-out) but I also don't take into account the Filoni-verse so, I take the time to basically "un-retcon" the TCW changes from the EU. It's explained better in the video description.
Loremaster of Mandalore, sir. What about cylinder shaped props with buttons on the back of each armor suit? Are those thermal detonators allright?
It seems that most named clone commanders and captains, regardless of subrank, also directly lead a smaller group within that unit who may primarily be there as the best troopers for protection of high ranking clones on field ops who are ergo most often with the jedi when leading the charge. Perhaps on a more sinister level, it's so that there is always a contingent of clones around a jedi for when the time comes to execute order 66. Also, heavily specialized clones such as flame troopers may have formed as an individual unit due to being so niche it's easier to train and equip them together first, then assign them to other units as needed, like EODs or JTACs in real life. I like the clone ranking structure, even though it's all over the place at times, because it appears to be very flexible to the demands of a galaxy wide war. Every system may vary wildly from each other with sizes of systems, to sizes of planetary enemy forces and even the number of planets within each system. Given how often clones are depleted and how ships may take a relatively long time to bring reinforcements, it sounds more ideal to form ad hoc units for certain tasks on the fly than waiting to reform, even if they remain permanent. One really good example of this is towards the end of the clone wars show when Anakin promotes Rex and splits a part of the 501st to fight on Mandalore with Ashoka while he takes the main force to Coruscant
Great video, however Phase 1 clone armour could sustain troops in vacuum for a time. For example the wolfpack clones which left their escape pod with Plo Koon outside The Malevolence in season 1 of Star Wars: The Clone Wars.
See video description
please do the CIS
that would be awesome
I wonder if any Fett clones made it to Thrawns time and army
That's unlikely.
@@TRivan-kx2bi imagine a battlefront game where Morrison starts narrating about serving Thrawn
Tadd, do the records tell us how many total months the clone wars lasted? Or was it 3 years exactly?
There is only the EU. Thank you Tadd Larkin for providing a historical channel for it. One day things will be set right.
I've always wondered where there any attempts after the clone wars to create a clone army. Aside from the clone rebellion on Camino.
I love that video so much 🫶
Good Job 👍
I love the original version of Order 66 and the clones in general so much more, when the clones were genetically modified and totally brainwashed to be absolutely loyal to the Republic and Chancellor Palpatine above their relationship to their Jedi generals and when orders were orders. And they also knew about Order 66, they weren't actively waiting for it to be issued, but they were totally aware of it.
That is the true slave army of the Republic, not the individual characters with hopes and dreams and being mind-controlled by some bio-chip to guarantee their loyalty to their true purpose, which is Order 66.
TCW kinda missed the point by portraying the clones the way they are in this show.
The clones did not need humanization, why did the clones that were raised and indoctrinated for war and carry out the orders of the Republic need that much humanization?
Clones are strictly ideologically precessed beings. The chip only spoiled the whole ideas of the clones, which plays very stupidly.
The clones are supposed to be like what they are in the EU.
It's kind of a shame people think clone troopers should follow TCW's flawed simplistic ideas of what the clones are and not thinking about how little sense it makes in-universe and that the original version (Indoctrination and genetic modification) is way better.
Would you be willing to make a post/video of all the individual comics, games, shows etc. Involved in the clone wars mmp i really want to get into it but have no clue what is considered part of the mmp
www.starwarstimeline.net/Originalclonewars.htm
Can you make a video on the Mandalorian wars
Eventually, I am planning on doing a breakdown of specific conflicts, including the Mandalorian Wars
@@Manda-LORE thanks man
If you remember me I had earlier made a comment about the clone wars between canon and legends, and you had mentioned to check out this vid about order 66 and.... I personally still perfer the canon version, I get that most of the clones still commited it even if they didnt want tp, but there was some that didnt do it at all, and I feel that palpatine woudnt want to risk most of the clones not doing orfer 66, he has calculated everything for years by that point, he woudnt want to risk it all. But just my opinion, I will respect yours, and I still like legends order 66, especially that goated 501st clone line from the novel.
Yeah. In Legends, there were some special clones like the ARC-troopers (who were trained by Jango Fett himself) and Clone Commandos, who were much more independent, less indoctrinated to blindly follow orders and had more free will than regular clones due to their different genetic and upbringing, like Ion-Squad and Delta-Squad. Those were much purer copies of Jango Fett. Those were mostly the type of clones who refused to carry out Order 66 since they had the right mindset to disobey while most regular clones did execute the order, even if many of them didn't even want to.
Before the empire and palpatines no trooper left behind act.
As much as I now love Rex, Fives, The Bad Batch, and the other Clones from TCW, I also love how they were handled in the EU. The Alpha-class ARCs were almost like super soldiers, similar to the SPARTANs from the Halo games.
Rex, Fives and Clone Force 99 talked too much, and they don't have consistency in ranks.
You have to consider they wouldn't 9f fought a ww2 style front and highly mobile often fighting for strategic points of a planet like the capital, spaceport, or facility be it a dockyard, factory or mine so troops per planet with high mobility can greatly reduce numbers droids in open ground can be dealt with with air strikes or orbital bombardment so I think at the start 3,000,00 and at the end something like 6,000,000 minus casualties possibly 9 or 12,000,000 alltogether with cost of equipment (ships, fighters, tanks), troopers, and supplies
Wait the Jedi Order didn’t become the Judicial department of the Galactic senate. They were placed under the supervision of the Judicial Department once the ruusan reformation was in place. The Jedi Order and Judicial department are two separate things. The Ruusan Reformation denounced all the Jedis military ranks and their primary function from then on was to answer to the elected officials of the Senate (meaning they became ambassadors like we see in TPM). Love the video, love the channel, but I just wanted to point out that one thing
The first three Republic commando books were amazing. I was deeply invested in the family Spartan warrior dynamics.
But I felt Travis was rushed when writing order 66 and imperial commando. And as a result were not as good.
So I'm writing a Star Wars story that covers the "unseen battles" that were never explored of the Clone Wars period, both TCW and 2003-05 CWMMP. If the storyline revolves around a preexisting OC from the EU comics but is told in the TCW animation style, how does that sound to you? It will reference events of both Clone Wars timelines but is focused as a Band of Brothers style story about the clones and their Jedi General with their own war stories that tie both continuities as best it can. Yes TCW and CWMMP obviously don't fit, this is meant to be a love letter to the fans that enjoy both interpretations of how the Clone Wars went down. I just wanted to know how a series like this sounds to you, Tadd Lar'ken, since you're the most qualified person imo to give your thoughts on a "fanfiction" CW story like this. Thank you.
(e.g. 'Battle of Tibrin' - first mentioned in Labyrinth of Evil. Tied to the comic Jedi: Count Dooku but mentioned heavily in TCW season 1. Rex and Cody participate and Gree adopts the "double stripe" hairstyle. EU battle explored in TCW but unsure of its Legends canonicity)
I’ll come back later to finish watching the video, 26:00.
where’d you find the thumbnail pic? It’s pretty sweet
My deviantart collection is linked in all of my video's descriptions with a majority of the fan art used in my videos
Super duper picky nerdy point: I thought Mace Windu's purple colored battalion was Canon only. Am I mistaken? Just curious. Great vid btw
Nope, the 187th first appeared as Hasboro figures in 2006 and got a little blurb on the back of the packaging. Maybe the post-buyout canon has them a bit more fleshed out with actual stories but I wouldn't have a clue.
Mace windus canon clones look absolutely nothing like the purple versions from legends.
@@Manda-LORE okay, neat. You're much more knowledgeable about this than me lol. Btw I'm glad you addressed the whole "organic droid" myth that Canon and even many Legends fans have propagated
@@idkstudios4412 no in cannon they have to paint jobs the purple one and the one seen in season 7 of tcw
EU: 187th Legion (purple)
Disney Canon: 187th Battalion (brown)
When will part IX of the History of the Galaxy be published?
I started recording part 9 today actually and I finished the script last week. I'm splitting the new Republic Era into 2 videos for the sheer ammount of information being covered in that 20 year span.
@@Manda-LORE so early next week for release for part one?
@@jpksready Ha, no, the editing process takes longer than that I'm afraid. I also have a day job. We're looking at january-february
Another Tadd classic
The real question is the numbers. karen Traviss tried to shoehorn 3 million clones on the low end, while curtis Saxton gave us hundreds of millions on the high end
You're the best dude, I'm off my tits rn but I love your vids. Keep the real sw alive brother.
you have a discord?
CIS or Warhammer 40k Space Marines
1k space marines per chapter: :)
3mil Enhanced Jango clones: :(
why did you use the Kenobi 501st clone Nax as an example? th-cam.com/video/olp5eJkBeh0/w-d-xo.html
Because I couldn't find any good illustrations of old clones in a nursing home, and there's no official artwork depicting that either, so I went with the hobo clone from Kenobi.
I finally finished the clone wars multimedia project. The comics had the best stories. Most of the novels were mostly passable in quality. Shatterpoint was definitely the best among the novels. Windus adversary reminded me of bane from batman.
CWMMP 🗿 >>> TCW 🤡
I honestly don't think it's fair to compare them because the mpp is much larger than tcw and tcw is targeted at a younger audience than the mpp
@@matem1649 TCW contradicts the movies and the EU. That's the main problem with it.
@@MandoMarsi13 well at least they made sure to not have grievous and Anakin meet
@@matem1649 But Grievous and Kenobi fought before Ep3 which was wrong. Anakin and Dooku weren't supposed to duel between Ep2-3 either.
@@MandoMarsi13 well nothing in rots implies that they have never meat before and Anakin and obi wan do encounter dookie in the eu at times
Is this legends??
Yessir, I only do Legends. See video description
@@Manda-LOREcool. Legends is awesome.
There were over 700 million clone troopers
The 150 contendincy orders don't make a lot of sense really.
Why would the jedi want to fight with an army that can execute them on the spot on the chancellor's orders?🤔
Also wouldn't palpatine want his soldiers to be brainwashed to ensure whether or not they want to they carry out order 66?
Instead of them betraying the order and rebelling?
Cause palpatine would rather have the clones be obedient slaves than has an ounce of emotion and loyalty to the jedi in this critical order that the sith have been planing for over a millennia.
So i defend the inhibitor chips
The army was engineered to be 100% loyal and indoctrinated to the Republic. They were not loyal to palpatine they were loyal to the GAR and if palpatine was swapped with any other person they'd follow their orders all the same. The jedi were most likely put at ease by seeing that the clones had multiple execution orders for different people as a last case contingency and knowing it wasn't specifically to execute all jedi but rather just jedi traitors.
Also to my knowledge absolutely no grunt trooper went against the order only Commandos and arcs did so without chips it ended up being more successful
@skinnyj123 yep palpatine would also want those arc troopers and commandos to carry out the order without question.
@ChinonsoNnadozie that is redundant as most arc troopers deserted the army even with inhibitor chips. Rex, wolffe, Gregor, bad batch, echo, fives...
@skinnyj123 I would have preferred it if all obeyed, no Jedi survivors my friend.