I built a silverface champ clone, or sort of with a "marshall-ish" tone control. I inserted a 22k pot in series with the negative feedback resistor. It kicks @ss!!! Never thought it will be so versatile! 5W on a celestion greenback. I think this is all i need! :) Great video!!!
Along with these mods, to get a cleaner tone, would it also help to have both pre-amp tubes as12AY7s? Hope trying this won't do anything bad to the build. Many thanks to @robrobinette for the mod and also to @KleyDeJong for demonstrating it here. Brilliant work. Lucky to have all this content🙏
I'm building a Champ style amp next week that uses an EL84 instead of a 6V6 but I'm adding a 6V6 back into the circuit on a switch that lifts the cathode of either the EL84 or the 6V6 to select one or the other. And I've got some spdt switches lying around so I thought I'd add a NFB loop (the schematic I'm going off of did away with the champ NFB loop so it's a perfect mod to add one back in). But after watching this I'm thinking of doing robs mod and have a couple values (I use his bias calculator every time I get a new amp lol). I'll have to get another on on on if I do that though since I just used my last one on a DSL100HR mod I did last week. And there is always the rotary pot option too but I'm already running out of chassis front panel space lol. I've seen a lot of guys put the NFB switch or rotary switch on the back panel though so that an option. Anyways, great video. It really helped me decide to incorporate a NFB loop!
I have an amp similar to that (5F1 preamp, EL84 power tube) that I was originally going to connect the feedback for, but I forgot. I liked the way it sounded so I left it. It was actually supposed to have a different preamp but there wasn't enough room for a tone stack in the chassis.
Great video again, thanks for that. But when I am honest I do not hear a difference in NFB or no-NFB. In the Fenders with NFB there is a presence circuit. That gives a tonal effect. Can you explain where the tonal difference in a NFB line with only a resistance is should coming from? Yes, there is a volume thing coing on but when you compensate for that there is no difference imo.
I'm currently working on my bell and howel 385 filmosound to be converted.. it has a a NFBL circuit in it.. I'm a huge blake mills fan and I'm wondering if I should remove it or add a switch. Like yours
Hey Kley, love your videos, I check them a lot. I made a 5f2a as my first amp but looking to do a 5e3. How did you find the tone control? I'm looking to avoid "muffled" sounds, like when you hit a low E and it disappears into mush. Do you use the plexi voice much? I didn't hear too much difference with the NFB to be honest here, but the bypass cap sure gives a big gain boost. And I suppose 51k is a light value for NFB so what more can be expected haha.
I personally don't always love the Tweed style preamp. Lots of midrange and low end. I prefer a tone stack to scoop some mids and give better control. I mostly use my 5E3 on the Normal Channel which I modded to have a BF tone stack. With the tone stack and the NFB + no bypass cap the tone becomes very clear with lots of headroom.
Ah I see, thanks for the reply man, that's useful to know. I think I'll have a similar plan to you, with a tonestack (maybe swapable mid caps) and a switch for raw. I had an idea for two bypass caps to be on a pot like a mix control so you could control *somewhat* the gain and the frequency response, but with two different colors on either side. Let me know what you think! I probably wouldn't have built any amps if i hadn't seen how DIY and versatile it could be, so thanks for the vids :)
Thanks! That mix control would work great. I've seen a lot of bypass cap switches to insert or remove or select between two. But a pot could give you all shades in between the two extremes. I used a similar mod in a Fuzz Face and it worked nicely there.
Thank's for the vid! I'm tempted to add a negative feedback circuit to a Vox AC10 (I want them Fender cleans you know) and this video helped me hear the effect in action. Now I'm trying to figure out whether to do a three way switch as per your tests, or a design similar to this th-cam.com/video/H5fFb5_9xyA/w-d-xo.html .
I did this mod and got a pop when it switched to the 56k negative feedback resistor. Should the amp be off when switching between settings? I didn’t see that mentioned here or on Rob’s page.
I prefer the early break up of an original Fender custom deluxe. It's why I bought the amp . If I wanted something cleaner I use a different amp. I never understood the point of modifying an amp to make it sound different from it's original design. Just get a different amp, there are more than enough to choose from nowadays.
I don't understand what you don't understand? With the stock setting you have full access to the original tone. The switch gives you more potential options. Do you use your Deluxe with fixed resistors instead of volume and tone controls? How is turning a tone knob any different from flipping a NFB switch? 'Just get a different amp' costs a lot more. I'm all for having an amp stable to cover all your bases. But sheesh. Lastly, as someone who has spent a lot of time studying circuits and tube amp theory it is a lot of fun to experiment with different circuit topologies and learn which parts really contribute to an amp's tone.
Great guitar mouth!
wow, I didn't notice any difference in tone when you compensated volume !
I know, nobody's going to like this notice, but
I built a silverface champ clone, or sort of with a "marshall-ish" tone control. I inserted a 22k pot in series with the negative feedback resistor. It kicks @ss!!! Never thought it will be so versatile! 5W on a celestion greenback. I think this is all i need! :) Great video!!!
Thank you for the this video, I have been curious about this for a couple weeks now after stumbling across the same article.
Great video Kley but the switch is an ON-OFF-ON. An ON-ON-ON would have all three poles connected in the middle position.
Thanks for that correction, I will update the description and see if I can put an overlay on that section. Great mod Rob, thanks for your work!
Along with these mods, to get a cleaner tone, would it also help to have both pre-amp tubes as12AY7s? Hope trying this won't do anything bad to the build.
Many thanks to @robrobinette for the mod and also to @KleyDeJong for demonstrating it here. Brilliant work. Lucky to have all this content🙏
I'm building a Champ style amp next week that uses an EL84 instead of a 6V6 but I'm adding a 6V6 back into the circuit on a switch that lifts the cathode of either the EL84 or the 6V6 to select one or the other. And I've got some spdt switches lying around so I thought I'd add a NFB loop (the schematic I'm going off of did away with the champ NFB loop so it's a perfect mod to add one back in). But after watching this I'm thinking of doing robs mod and have a couple values (I use his bias calculator every time I get a new amp lol). I'll have to get another on on on if I do that though since I just used my last one on a DSL100HR mod I did last week. And there is always the rotary pot option too but I'm already running out of chassis front panel space lol. I've seen a lot of guys put the NFB switch or rotary switch on the back panel though so that an option. Anyways, great video. It really helped me decide to incorporate a NFB loop!
I have an amp similar to that (5F1 preamp, EL84 power tube) that I was originally going to connect the feedback for, but I forgot. I liked the way it sounded so I left it. It was actually supposed to have a different preamp but there wasn't enough room for a tone stack in the chassis.
i replace the 22K Resister with a 10K and add a 50K pot and now you have a variable neg. feedback control.....try it!!
I have seen some guitar playing faces. But you are something special ; )
John Mayer has some interesting playing faces and body movements, too. I guess that's what happens when you truly love what you do.
John Mayer while a great player, is a mush mouthed pussy. @@alexhunter6992
T Bone Really due to Berkley School of Music. It wasn’t earned on the hard knocks circuit.
Volume settings were dissimilar.Hard to know the difference.
What kind of speaker is in your cabinet?
Sounds great
Wgs gc12c. My favorite of all time!
Great video again, thanks for that. But when I am honest I do not hear a difference in NFB or no-NFB. In the Fenders with NFB there is a presence circuit. That gives a tonal effect. Can you explain where the tonal difference in a NFB line with only a resistance is should coming from? Yes, there is a volume thing coing on but when you compensate for that there is no difference imo.
Negative feedback reduces distortion, noise, and increases the total bandwidth of the amp. Harder to hear in the video than in person
I'm currently working on my bell and howel 385 filmosound to be converted.. it has a a NFBL circuit in it.. I'm a huge blake mills fan and I'm wondering if I should remove it or add a switch. Like yours
I think the NFB mods are fairly straightforward, yet produce a nice change in tone and feel. I'd go for it.
All sounds the same to me. I put a switch on my champ for no nfb 22 or some other value and they all sound exactly the same in person as well.
Hey Kley, love your videos, I check them a lot. I made a 5f2a as my first amp but looking to do a 5e3. How did you find the tone control? I'm looking to avoid "muffled" sounds, like when you hit a low E and it disappears into mush. Do you use the plexi voice much?
I didn't hear too much difference with the NFB to be honest here, but the bypass cap sure gives a big gain boost. And I suppose 51k is a light value for NFB so what more can be expected haha.
I personally don't always love the Tweed style preamp. Lots of midrange and low end. I prefer a tone stack to scoop some mids and give better control. I mostly use my 5E3 on the Normal Channel which I modded to have a BF tone stack.
With the tone stack and the NFB + no bypass cap the tone becomes very clear with lots of headroom.
Ah I see, thanks for the reply man, that's useful to know. I think I'll have a similar plan to you, with a tonestack (maybe swapable mid caps) and a switch for raw.
I had an idea for two bypass caps to be on a pot like a mix control so you could control *somewhat* the gain and the frequency response, but with two different colors on either side. Let me know what you think!
I probably wouldn't have built any amps if i hadn't seen how DIY and versatile it could be, so thanks for the vids :)
Thanks!
That mix control would work great. I've seen a lot of bypass cap switches to insert or remove or select between two. But a pot could give you all shades in between the two extremes. I used a similar mod in a Fuzz Face and it worked nicely there.
What speaker are you using in this demo? I love it.
WGS G12C. My all time favorite!
How is your guitar technique controlled by your mouth?
Why don't you have your patreon anymore?
I checked on the page and updated it, it should be working now, thanks! - www.patreon.com/kleydejong
th-cam.com/video/ZQLIknKdBig/w-d-xo.html - start at 17:30
Thank's for the vid! I'm tempted to add a negative feedback circuit to a Vox AC10 (I want them Fender cleans you know) and this video helped me hear the effect in action. Now I'm trying to figure out whether to do a three way switch as per your tests, or a design similar to this th-cam.com/video/H5fFb5_9xyA/w-d-xo.html .
I did this mod and got a pop when it switched to the 56k negative feedback resistor. Should the amp be off when switching between settings? I didn’t see that mentioned here or on Rob’s page.
Mine pops as well. I don't turn it off when I switch it.
I prefer the early break up of an original Fender custom deluxe. It's why I bought the amp . If I wanted something cleaner I use a different amp. I never understood the point of modifying an amp to make it sound different from it's original design. Just get a different amp, there are more than enough to choose from nowadays.
I don't understand what you don't understand? With the stock setting you have full access to the original tone. The switch gives you more potential options.
Do you use your Deluxe with fixed resistors instead of volume and tone controls? How is turning a tone knob any different from flipping a NFB switch?
'Just get a different amp' costs a lot more. I'm all for having an amp stable to cover all your bases. But sheesh.
Lastly, as someone who has spent a lot of time studying circuits and tube amp theory it is a lot of fun to experiment with different circuit topologies and learn which parts really contribute to an amp's tone.
@@KleyDeJong 100% agreed, Leo Fender was not GOD!!