Agree with all your points here. They need to make all dungeon monsters like twice as hard across the board. So people can spread back out to levels 1 and 2.
I do agree with you on that. I most of the time farm wilderness. Whenever I go in dungeon I feel like im wasting my time. I think that as they introduce more lvl 4 its going to help alot. Its really hard to convince myself thats its worth farming dungeon not grabbing gold, loosing time running or dying from pk and knowing that farming dungeon is overall less exp and gold per hour. Only thing I see is for the redline exp whenever you reach like 5-6 pts in wilderness. But I guess its part of the game to give up on looting gold to progress the redline just odd to me. The dev arent dumb in a way, if the game too easy to grind gold, they wont sell PREV coins.
We already expressed these opinions to Owyn. He just said "there are many empty shards out there. You can go and farm there". When you discuss anything about PKing in dungeons and how it is overwhelming in Discord chat, trolls start to spam that this is nature of UO, we should get used to it or even worse by saying we are just incompetent. Gold issue is critical in player driven economies. If you increase the amount of gold a player can carry it increases inflation. One way to mitigate that is to introduce new items or conversions. If you make PKing difficult, then you start to see Blue PKs which is worse. We experienced this years ago. I remember PK wanna be Blues were grouping in dungeons and hard to understand their intentions and all of a sudden they kill you. So, if you make PvE more safe it makes gold less useful and people start to trash talk about how Outlands turning to Trammel. If you make PvP more difficult people start to cry about it and put pressure on GMs. All these issues are known by GMs and fixing is not easy like on other A+++ massive MMORPGs.
Last time I made a suggestion, Owyn told me to Fck off. Literally, he wrote that. And it was just a decent suggestion, might be stupid according to him, but it was still a proper suggestion.. Increasing the gold carry capacity is not the only solution, you can also nerf wilderness farming alternatively so it is not extremely adventagous to dungeons.
@@MushboomersSandbox-wd5vk Nothing should be nerfed from my stand point. They should make all aspects very strong. Right now its aspect cemetery. So new players not forced to choose certain builds or aspects. Making all aspects OP should be the main goal so everyone can farm and enjoy everything.
@@lazyhydroponicsandstuff3682Like what? Spell hue deed, melloweed and clothes and like dungeon rares? I can just buy theses with the extra gph from farming wilderness.
As a new-ish player who primarily has been dungeon farming, I feel almost compelled to get strongbox upgrades due to my dungeon time vs banking time being nearly 50/50. I agree that something should be done. I liked the bags of sending in UO retail personally which would allow you to send gold back to bank at the cost of the bag itself and powder charges.
My biggest problem is that pk's have it too easy in dungeons. Almost every player they attack can't fight back. I'd say 1 per 25 templates can somewhat fight back against a pk template and still be able to farm somewhat reasonably. Pk's go in with full blown pvp templates and every opponent they face has between 2 to 3 skills that are pvp viable. It's kind of a joke. A burrito can dungeon pk on outlands. I see these bads constantly opening with flamestrikes and still winning because most templates dont have room for resist. I'd suggest skills like camping or chiv count as resist in pvp, but i dont think most of these pks even actually want a fair fight. Thieves as well, but not so much. I think that if tamers, mages, dexxers are required to lug around expensive weapons/gear through dungeons, thieves need to have something to lose as well. they are currently all reward no risk and that should change.
Get in a guild or join path. It is a very simple solution. If guilds were not a thing that people could join a group to fight back or defend the farmers who rage so bad when dying, then your comment would make sense to me, at least.
you should of been here awhile back the Pk's Have IT WAY Harder too pk now... + theres WAY more reds than blues... if people stopped running from 1 red and grouped up on them it wouldnt be an issue lmao
@@mugiwarapvp im just pointing out that it isnt really a pvp server. it's just pk's killing players with no resist on templates impossible to pvp on. scrubs love this, and competitors hate it.
@@PringlesCan-y7m There is risk. Players who run reds will understand this. If you are in a guild and its all blue pvmers, they simply come in 1 time as a group to wipe the reds. (PATH) Used to do it daily but less and less of that police patrol has been happening. (Simply why you see pairs of reds vs solo, it can get really annoying). There is also a weird 4 minute timer that goes off anytime you attack another player or simply get attacked by another player so you cannot use a gate but forced to run from lvl 4 to entrance or try to invis to wait out the timer... Again, reds will understand this. The time it takes a red to retrace steps back out of the dungeon vs a group of blues coming into one...Try it sometime lol. And if you die, well, instantly you cannot come back into the dungeon for 45 minutes with a price to pay for resurrection. Now if you want it to be fair the price per kill and bounty scales so if they are even slightly good at killing players, the price can change to 100k real quick.(No wonder reds bound together as a group makes it easier to survive) 45 minutes of peace without reds is perfect for any blue farmer unless they are extremely greedy and want to farm non stop for hours, but that gives you so much more time to loot etc. 1. Police (Blues who fight back) 2. Time (4 minute penalty flagging) 3. Price (scales) 4. Skill ( Takes practice to be good at this) 5. Time (45 timeout upon death) 6. Mobs...(not only fighting against that but the mechanics of the mob aggression regardless of player type) So, in the end... who would want to play a red?... Skilled players, but not burritos who really don't care if they die because then they should just be blue anyways. Plus, it sucks waiting 3 total days for 1 kill to roll over because you want to go back to being...BLUE. The GM's work hard to add 'penalties' against reds so they stop getting more spam messages like "ohh its not fair in dungeons because of reds blah blah blah" I'm like "Welcome to Outlands beaches!"
@@mugiwarapvp oh so you think balance is when you have to have twice as many blues to be able to fight the reds. "just bring way more people then they have".... makes sense. no wonder you just go after templates with 5 dedicated pvm skills.
They will never buff dungs :) most likely Nerf wild. Since i was playing it was already the issue so I was spending 95% time at wild farming. While running to the final place of dung you can already have half of your bp at wild. The other thing is dungs are overcrowded. That was pretty much the reason I gave up
@@MushboomersSandbox-wd5vk yeah there are ways around doing the content, but going to an omni for 15 or 20 mins for potential gold or silver link and guaranteed multiple bronze, plus gold, specials (if your fast looter :)) , and xp are hard to beat. My guild just had a dungeon event where we pop favors and all track our gain there. Guild pays out half of the gold you farmed (and you keep the gold actually farmed of course) and we do a lot of bosses for tokens during the event. Loot from those is distributed also. It all adds up and not as boring as just porting around alone mindlessly farming (but you can do that too if you want).
@@stwerks so yeah those kind of things help but again, they help to newer players more compared to the veterans. For instance in an event like that I'd still rather farm in an empty dungeon, in wilderness or level 4s instead of competing for mobs in a crowded dungeon. For instance Yew makes a payout at the end of each omni of 300k which takes about 45 mins which is amazing if you cannot farm that much on your own, but if your avg is already 250k per hour that is not that much of a difference. I hope I could explain myself.
Just found your contact today. I’ll have to watch some of your other videos to understand more of your perspective probably. I disagree with calling them issues, I think they are different ways to play the game. When I farm Overland, I do make way more gold per hour. But most of those spots are heavily contested with PKs. I when I farm dungeons, I pull out less gold, but end up getting more rares (I think we are all there for the rares). I’ve played Outlands for 2 years and still not maxed my chain, but I do very well on BS fencer. I wish I would’ve known when I started the game how much gold is left on corpses in dungeons, a new player can make a fortune just scavenging a dungeon. My personal opinion of the things you’re pointing out as issues, Its just different ways to play the game. If everything was balanced, it would be boring.
How are you getting rares with less gph? Rare drop is related to the gold drop, dungeons don't have a boost for rares. Also according to my experience with someone who has wilderness trophy, dungeons are way more contested with pks compared to the wilderness. But yeah I do agree there is no easy solution for everything.
@@MushboomersSandbox-wd5vk I don’t know I guess I’ve just always looked at gold as like secondary loot… so when I’m in a dungeon, I’m not as concerned about with my bags become full with gold I will continue killing mobs, and looking for rares. I do agree with you if you’re just looking for gold per hour wilderness is the way to go.
Hey Mush! can u share good wilderness spots? Everytime i go to any wildersness spot i only see corpses haha. At the end is the same as dungeon. Redliners take everything
I put 100 tracking on my Melee and never looked back. Only time I die is A. When im not paying attention/zoning out or B. A pk ports in right next to me in the overworld. In dungeons you get enough of a heads up to hide or run somewhere usually. Other peeps will keep on farming and die while you slip away in the chaos. The amount of times Tracking has saved me countless gold and rare is too many to count. Are their pk in dungeons? yes. Do you have the tools to avoid pk/get away 90% of the time? Yes If you choose not to use them thats a you problem. Most PK on this shard are Really bad tbh.
I think you are missing the point, I am not saying they are unavoidable, I am saying you don't even have to bother with avoiding them in the wilderness and it still has higher gph and you have 100 more skills points that you don't have to spend on Tracking.
@@MushboomersSandbox-wd5vk I agree with you overall about wilderness vs dungeon. Its a hassle to run into a dungeon most times. A strong box really is key
Do you think level 4 dungeon is somewhat competitive with 2/2 Strongbox, 120 camping & offchain with camping links? Or is Wilderness still blowing it out of the water? (assuming no PKs).
Wilderness is simply better because: 1)You can recall anytime 2) Mobs are mostly easier 3) You can kite pretty much endlessly But yeah if you find a spot in a level 4 where there is almost no competition then it might be on par.
Also what needs to be considered is if you do not have Margery you just recall back to your farming spot. I have chic so I can get home fast, but I do have to run back. Admittedly it is easier to get there then it is in a dungeon
Honestly, the dungeons are too easy... think about it. TIME dungeon is a perfect example of how these dungeons should be completed. With a TEAM or guild that runs together. Being able to create a summoner with gm skills in 2 days and wipe out mobs lvl 1-3 solo make no sense. It should have a damn good challenge, at least to make it worthwhile. As for PK's.....literally non existant in the time dungeon.. .why? Because they have to have a pvm build in order to survive the first dang room without a greater headless one shotting their 🍑. The experience gained is top tier and possibly faster than overworld recalling since 1. Mob spawn is quick 2. Mob difficulty is high 3. Mob loot is top tier 2-4k gold piles and several gates near the entrance 4. Loot isnt being stolen by a thief or pk since they die soooo easily 5. Solves literally all the issues about pks/thieves by just making the mobs actually difficult to kill. Farmed 1mil chain link exp faster than my loop recall to different deamon spawns since everyone and their mom goes to the same location. But in time, its a fresh mob in less than 20 seconds which you run a short circuit over and over. Rinse and repeat
I am loving the new content as well as the many templates videos. Thank you, sir!
Agree with all your points here. They need to make all dungeon monsters like twice as hard across the board. So people can spread back out to levels 1 and 2.
That's a really good idea.
I remmember a time on outlands when you could just bring pack animals into the dungeons... what a great time that was.
Wow, that's crazy!
I do agree with you on that. I most of the time farm wilderness. Whenever I go in dungeon I feel like im wasting my time. I think that as they introduce more lvl 4 its going to help alot. Its really hard to convince myself thats its worth farming dungeon not grabbing gold, loosing time running or dying from pk and knowing that farming dungeon is overall less exp and gold per hour. Only thing I see is for the redline exp whenever you reach like 5-6 pts in wilderness. But I guess its part of the game to give up on looting gold to progress the redline just odd to me. The dev arent dumb in a way, if the game too easy to grind gold, they wont sell PREV coins.
We already expressed these opinions to Owyn. He just said "there are many empty shards out there. You can go and farm there". When you discuss anything about PKing in dungeons and how it is overwhelming in Discord chat, trolls start to spam that this is nature of UO, we should get used to it or even worse by saying we are just incompetent.
Gold issue is critical in player driven economies. If you increase the amount of gold a player can carry it increases inflation. One way to mitigate that is to introduce new items or conversions.
If you make PKing difficult, then you start to see Blue PKs which is worse. We experienced this years ago. I remember PK wanna be Blues were grouping in dungeons and hard to understand their intentions and all of a sudden they kill you.
So, if you make PvE more safe it makes gold less useful and people start to trash talk about how Outlands turning to Trammel. If you make PvP more difficult people start to cry about it and put pressure on GMs.
All these issues are known by GMs and fixing is not easy like on other A+++ massive MMORPGs.
Last time I made a suggestion, Owyn told me to Fck off. Literally, he wrote that. And it was just a decent suggestion, might be stupid according to him, but it was still a proper suggestion..
Increasing the gold carry capacity is not the only solution, you can also nerf wilderness farming alternatively so it is not extremely adventagous to dungeons.
@@MushboomersSandbox-wd5vk Nothing should be nerfed from my stand point. They should make all aspects very strong. Right now its aspect cemetery. So new players not forced to choose certain builds or aspects.
Making all aspects OP should be the main goal so everyone can farm and enjoy everything.
@@MushboomersSandbox-wd5vkIf you havent bought prev coins, he often act like that. 😅
Thank you so much for your guide. Love it
i agree, there is no reason at all to go dungeon from an efficency viewpoint, wilderness is just much better
For gold yes, but there are MANY items you cant get out in the wild
@@lazyhydroponicsandstuff3682Like what? Spell hue deed, melloweed and clothes and like dungeon rares? I can just buy theses with the extra gph from farming wilderness.
Solo maybe, but you can't spawn bosses and do Omnis if you just farm wilderness.
Great points.
As a new-ish player who primarily has been dungeon farming, I feel almost compelled to get strongbox upgrades due to my dungeon time vs banking time being nearly 50/50. I agree that something should be done. I liked the bags of sending in UO retail personally which would allow you to send gold back to bank at the cost of the bag itself and powder charges.
My biggest problem is that pk's have it too easy in dungeons. Almost every player they attack can't fight back. I'd say 1 per 25 templates can somewhat fight back against a pk template and still be able to farm somewhat reasonably. Pk's go in with full blown pvp templates and every opponent they face has between 2 to 3 skills that are pvp viable. It's kind of a joke. A burrito can dungeon pk on outlands. I see these bads constantly opening with flamestrikes and still winning because most templates dont have room for resist. I'd suggest skills like camping or chiv count as resist in pvp, but i dont think most of these pks even actually want a fair fight.
Thieves as well, but not so much. I think that if tamers, mages, dexxers are required to lug around expensive weapons/gear through dungeons, thieves need to have something to lose as well. they are currently all reward no risk and that should change.
Get in a guild or join path. It is a very simple solution. If guilds were not a thing that people could join a group to fight back or defend the farmers who rage so bad when dying, then your comment would make sense to me, at least.
you should of been here awhile back the Pk's Have IT WAY Harder too pk now... + theres WAY more reds than blues... if people stopped running from 1 red and grouped up on them it wouldnt be an issue lmao
@@mugiwarapvp im just pointing out that it isnt really a pvp server. it's just pk's killing players with no resist on templates impossible to pvp on. scrubs love this, and competitors hate it.
@@PringlesCan-y7m
There is risk.
Players who run reds will understand this.
If you are in a guild and its all blue pvmers, they simply come in 1 time as a group to wipe the reds. (PATH) Used to do it daily but less and less of that police patrol has been happening. (Simply why you see pairs of reds vs solo, it can get really annoying).
There is also a weird 4 minute timer that goes off anytime you attack another player or simply get attacked by another player so you cannot use a gate but forced to run from lvl 4 to entrance or try to invis to wait out the timer... Again, reds will understand this. The time it takes a red to retrace steps back out of the dungeon vs a group of blues coming into one...Try it sometime lol.
And if you die, well, instantly you cannot come back into the dungeon for 45 minutes with a price to pay for resurrection. Now if you want it to be fair the price per kill and bounty scales so if they are even slightly good at killing players, the price can change to 100k real quick.(No wonder reds bound together as a group makes it easier to survive)
45 minutes of peace without reds is perfect for any blue farmer unless they are extremely greedy and want to farm non stop for hours, but that gives you so much more time to loot etc.
1. Police (Blues who fight back)
2. Time (4 minute penalty flagging)
3. Price (scales)
4. Skill ( Takes practice to be good at this)
5. Time (45 timeout upon death)
6. Mobs...(not only fighting against that but the mechanics of the mob aggression regardless of player type)
So, in the end... who would want to play a red?... Skilled players, but not burritos who really don't care if they die because then they should just be blue anyways. Plus, it sucks waiting 3 total days for 1 kill to roll over because you want to go back to being...BLUE.
The GM's work hard to add 'penalties' against reds so they stop getting more spam messages like "ohh its not fair in dungeons because of reds blah blah blah"
I'm like "Welcome to Outlands beaches!"
@@mugiwarapvp oh so you think balance is when you have to have twice as many blues to be able to fight the reds. "just bring way more people then they have"....
makes sense. no wonder you just go after templates with 5 dedicated pvm skills.
ya, farming at wilderness more efficient. even safer than in dungeon.
They will never buff dungs :) most likely Nerf wild. Since i was playing it was already the issue so I was spending 95% time at wild farming. While running to the final place of dung you can already have half of your bp at wild. The other thing is dungs are overcrowded. That was pretty much the reason I gave up
You have to farm dungeons to spawn bosses to get Omnis.... So there is a reason to farm them.
Not really, just farm the gold and buy the link instead of having a slight chance of a discounted gold link. It is only a reason for the newbies.
@@MushboomersSandbox-wd5vk yeah there are ways around doing the content, but going to an omni for 15 or 20 mins for potential gold or silver link and guaranteed multiple bronze, plus gold, specials (if your fast looter :)) , and xp are hard to beat. My guild just had a dungeon event where we pop favors and all track our gain there. Guild pays out half of the gold you farmed (and you keep the gold actually farmed of course) and we do a lot of bosses for tokens during the event. Loot from those is distributed also. It all adds up and not as boring as just porting around alone mindlessly farming (but you can do that too if you want).
@@stwerks so yeah those kind of things help but again, they help to newer players more compared to the veterans. For instance in an event like that I'd still rather farm in an empty dungeon, in wilderness or level 4s instead of competing for mobs in a crowded dungeon.
For instance Yew makes a payout at the end of each omni of 300k which takes about 45 mins which is amazing if you cannot farm that much on your own, but if your avg is already 250k per hour that is not that much of a difference. I hope I could explain myself.
wildlands wilderness mobs drop too much gold. Before wildlands there were a handful of mobs that dropped over 1k, wildlands is every mob.
Just found your contact today. I’ll have to watch some of your other videos to understand more of your perspective probably. I disagree with calling them issues, I think they are different ways to play the game. When I farm Overland, I do make way more gold per hour. But most of those spots are heavily contested with PKs. I when I farm dungeons, I pull out less gold, but end up getting more rares (I think we are all there for the rares). I’ve played Outlands for 2 years and still not maxed my chain, but I do very well on BS fencer. I wish I would’ve known when I started the game how much gold is left on corpses in dungeons, a new player can make a fortune just scavenging a dungeon. My personal opinion of the things you’re pointing out as issues, Its just different ways to play the game. If everything was balanced, it would be boring.
How are you getting rares with less gph? Rare drop is related to the gold drop, dungeons don't have a boost for rares.
Also according to my experience with someone who has wilderness trophy, dungeons are way more contested with pks compared to the wilderness.
But yeah I do agree there is no easy solution for everything.
@@MushboomersSandbox-wd5vk I don’t know I guess I’ve just always looked at gold as like secondary loot… so when I’m in a dungeon, I’m not as concerned about with my bags become full with gold I will continue killing mobs, and looking for rares. I do agree with you if you’re just looking for gold per hour wilderness is the way to go.
Hey Mush! can u share good wilderness spots? Everytime i go to any wildersness spot i only see corpses haha. At the end is the same as dungeon. Redliners take everything
Yeah watch my 30 links video, I put a free book in my public house, you can make a copy for yourself.
@@MushboomersSandbox-wd5vk oh my TY!!!! i'll try it
I put 100 tracking on my Melee and never looked back. Only time I die is A. When im not paying attention/zoning out or B. A pk ports in right next to me in the overworld. In dungeons you get enough of a heads up to hide or run somewhere usually. Other peeps will keep on farming and die while you slip away in the chaos. The amount of times Tracking has saved me countless gold and rare is too many to count. Are their pk in dungeons? yes. Do you have the tools to avoid pk/get away 90% of the time? Yes If you choose not to use them thats a you problem. Most PK on this shard are Really bad tbh.
I think you are missing the point, I am not saying they are unavoidable, I am saying you don't even have to bother with avoiding them in the wilderness and it still has higher gph and you have 100 more skills points that you don't have to spend on Tracking.
@@MushboomersSandbox-wd5vk I agree with you overall about wilderness vs dungeon. Its a hassle to run into a dungeon most times. A strong box really is key
Do you think level 4 dungeon is somewhat competitive with 2/2 Strongbox, 120 camping & offchain with camping links? Or is Wilderness still blowing it out of the water? (assuming no PKs).
Wilderness is simply better because:
1)You can recall anytime
2) Mobs are mostly easier
3) You can kite pretty much endlessly
But yeah if you find a spot in a level 4 where there is almost no competition then it might be on par.
Don’t cores drop with more frequency in a dungeon though?
Also what needs to be considered is if you do not have Margery you just recall back to your farming spot. I have chic so I can get home fast, but I do have to run back. Admittedly it is easier to get there then it is in a dungeon
@@davidmorgan6967 Nope, drop rate is correlated to gold value and other bonusses such as special drop rate links, fortune armor, guild favors etc.
@@MushboomersSandbox-wd5vkok thanks for clearing that up.
Honestly, the dungeons are too easy... think about it. TIME dungeon is a perfect example of how these dungeons should be completed. With a TEAM or guild that runs together.
Being able to create a summoner with gm skills in 2 days and wipe out mobs lvl 1-3 solo make no sense.
It should have a damn good challenge, at least to make it worthwhile.
As for PK's.....literally non existant in the time dungeon.. .why? Because they have to have a pvm build in order to survive the first dang room without a greater headless one shotting their 🍑.
The experience gained is top tier and possibly faster than overworld recalling since
1. Mob spawn is quick
2. Mob difficulty is high
3. Mob loot is top tier 2-4k gold piles and several gates near the entrance
4. Loot isnt being stolen by a thief or pk since they die soooo easily
5. Solves literally all the issues about pks/thieves by just making the mobs actually difficult to kill.
Farmed 1mil chain link exp faster than my loop recall to different deamon spawns since everyone and their mom goes to the same location. But in time, its a fresh mob in less than 20 seconds which you run a short circuit over and over. Rinse and repeat
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