Most of feeling of 'size' with a 112 can be solved with a port. If you need more than that, get two 112 speakers. 1 ported and 1 sealed. Easier to carry around by far, and has all that focus the 212 and 412 lack.
This and other videos were such an eye-opener for my guitar tone. I'd been fiddling with the wrong part of the gear for the longest time! It's the speaker & cab that makes all the difference!
This is great! 2x12's are still my favorite for live and recording after this! I'm glad you redid this video. Cab sizes are something guitarists are very curious about but there hasn't been a good video comparison like this until now. Thanks!
The sound was brighter as the cabs got smaller. This was really well done. I wish you would have added a room mic to allow a comparison between how the cabs sounded from a few feet back as well. I think that would have brought out even more differences. Great video!
This was great video and helped confirm what I always thought I was hearing between my 2x12 and 4x12. The 4x12 definitely bring out the percussive bass frequencies more and make everything sound fatter. I like that kind of big sound in person, but can see how that'd get in the way with playing nice with the other frequencies in a production mix. Edit: Also - those Zilla cabs look sweet. I'd love to buy one and have it shipped across the pond. Top notch gear!
This was immensely useful!! Thank you so much for making this, and for being willing to remake your previous video using viewer feedback! That's really great.
That was a VERY well done analysis. And the audio results make total sense... 1 cone is more focused and cuts, with two you the signal has more phase issues (and richer sound), and with 4 much more of both. The 4x12 sounds richer to the ear but recording wise, Imo the best is to record 1x12 for a purest (less smeared) wave which cut in the mix, and then work in the mix to get the precise sound you want (ej doubling, chorusing etc).
Wow the 2x12 was the best hands down. It has the clarity in the high end of the 1x12 and the tight and fat bottom end of the 4x12. Thanks for taking the time to compare these and post it here.
Thanks so much for this video! I've been saving my space in my studio with 2X12 cabs and just never got the oomph I've been looking for. It's quite obvious that "size matters". Yes, it may be the power handling/spreading as well. On my studio monitors, the sound follows the visuals exactly. If you want big, you need 4X12. I do see the the need for the others too. They get more intimate the smaller they get. Very educational vid. Thanks again!
Good work. The grill cloth will dampen the highs a tad for 412 cab. I think mics placed at each cab's mid centre maybe 1 metre away from front would also make an interesting comparo
Zilla did a demo of grill cloths and the differing results were so microscopic that their recommendation is to just pick the grill cloth that looks good.. At least from their selections.
@@adamsteelproducer My main thing about speaker grills is that I have to easily see the cone with just a small flashlight. If I can't see the cone with just my phone's flashlight, it becomes a pita. Another cool thing to use bth is a smapp led floor lamp or clip on lamp... Preferably with a flat face that doesn't leak to the sides, to put flat, right on the speaker grill.
Maybe I missed something but you have the mic 2" away from one speaker in all the tests. If you are testing a 4x12 vs 2x12 vs 1x12 shouldn't the mic be placed like 10' away? Seems like all this is doing is allowing us to hear one speaker which doesn't make a difference.
Great video, to my ear, I enjoyed the 4x12 sound the most. It seems more layered, more lows; whereas the 2x12 and 1x12 had a brighter sound emphasizing the highs more.
The 2x12 does indeed sound nicest....on a phone or laptop :). However, the 4x12, even though only one speaker is mic'd up, still rules the roost on a good set of studio monitors, which is where this comparison really makes the differences apparent. All three sounded like my experience both live and at home over many decades. And, the 4x12 always sounds best in the room. The 2x12 just doesn't sound as together and fat, or sit in a mix like a good 4x12. After owning about every Marshall 1x12. 2x12 and 4x12 made from 1964 through the 60's, 70's and 80's. I kept two 4x12's over all the others. Your experience may differ, but for me nothing beats a 4x12 for tone and balls, at any volume level. This video reinforces that very well. Great job on it...my two cents.
good comparison, def depends on the type of music you gonna do and with which other instruments you are playing you wanna choose one or the other option
So at least in this vid you can tell that it's the same speaker many times. That's pretty nice. You can tell there's more bottom-end saturation in the 4x12 and... well, it kinda gets a little mushy. Almost feels like 2x12 is the midway as the 1x12 felt a little too bright. Then we've got the angled 2x12 but that's a different story. And I'm here like 6 years later so. :D Never mind me.
Great job . Very interesting results . Each cab delivering great tone. That 2x12 was awesome. I liked them all for sure . I just have a thing for that 4x12 honk . What I may have a preference or bias on is rear loaded vs front loaded cab configs. I prefer rear loaded , as were these cabs and believe rear loaded is best . Maybe that could be another comparison test for you to do as well ?
Thanks for this. I was surprised because the smaller amp/cab you use, generally, the bigger sound you get because you're maxing things much easier. But the 2x12 actually sounded better to me than the 1x12 3/4 time. The compromise is how much volume you want and volume doesn't scale linearly with voltage (ask my Bassman 70 vs my 100 and 140w). It was definitely brighter the smaller the cab was but the 1x12 was a good mix. That's just my ears, and I prefer open back, but everyone's got their own taste.
Perfect demonstration. For recording/digital I think it's just a different starting point in terms of EQ. "In the room" it matters a lot on what you type of music you make, your preference and of course the room itself. Personally, I would never got for anything bigger than a 1x12. It's just a hassle to move them around... but if I ever play a big avenue I want a 4x12.
👍🇺🇸❤412 WARMER & MORE BALANCED (the xtra 2 speakers help load down the sound, less loudness / harshness ) * more full bodied........🤓 2X12 SOUNDS LOUDER & BRIGHTER.........1×12 will even be more percussive , harsh & raw........the less speakers the more push from the amplifier. The size of the enclosure's sound waves plays a big roll👍🇺🇸❤I always use 2 - 4X12's....per 100w amp head.
This is good to know. I just bought a Marshall dsl1r head, but I couldn’t afford a cab so I got a Crate 250 2x12 combo cheap. I’m either gonna it and make it closed back or just close off the back and leave the amp inside. I know they’re not Celestion Vintage 30’s but it’s a start. The speakers are 8 ohm wired in parallel to 4 ohms . Gonna wire them in series to 16 ohm to match the amps impedance.
Excellent work. I have an ENGL 4x12 and a 2x12 with speakers made within 6 months, and I am blown away by the difference, even when sitting straight in front of the cones. Was considering by a 1x12 because I don't like the 2x12 as much, but this makes me doubt it'll make me happy either. The 4x12 is so much more polished. In your video, the only thing I would think that would create a difference would be if the V30's were of a different vintage, but I guess they were all relatively recently produced at the time of making?
I got myself a Zilla Fat Baby and was dissapointed to find out that the grill cloth is actually not resting on the baffle but around 2cm off the baffle. Dissapointing because I always mic my dynamic mics right on the grill. Is that why you take the grill on your?
That’s the design of every good speaker cloth on pretty much any cab- they need something to mount the cloth to! But to answer your question, no- I take the grill off so I can see quickly and clearly where my mics are pointing and save a lot of time instead of guessing or messing around with torches
One variation I noticed was that the 4x12 had a non see through screen and because of this you may have slightly different mic placement. The 2x12 had the mics pointed for the most part closer to the center of the speaker. These speakers typically need to be mic'd slightly off axis just outside of the center paper ring 2 - 3 inches. The region right in the middle speaker will definitely sound brighter, compared to mic'ing the speaker in between the outside edge and the center ring. Still a very good video, and presented very well. Cheers
The speakers were miced identically, a lot of time, torches and measuring tape were used to make sure they were accurate! And the grill cloth makes little difference, we made another video to show that.
yeah it makes sense to drive only one speaker becouse it pushes more air with lover volume and it that matter puts more higer hz and box size gives optimum lo fruequecy cut ... Q is? if you comppare to it 4x12 and 2x12 with conecting only one speaker in them would give different results? cheers!
That 2x12 Cab sounds the best by Far. The grill cloth on the 4x12 probably limited you to being able to get the 🎤's as close to the speaker 🔊as you were able to on the others. With that being said I still really enjoyed the video. Thanks for sharing. 🤘
Biggest change in your tone is your speakers. This is the most overlooked aspect of a rig. You will notice drastic tone change by just a speaker swap. Stsrt there if your pretty satisfied with your rig but want something new
I have a Mark V 25 with a 2x12, but i think it's too loud and I can't crank it on an apartment. If I use a 1x12 will it act as some sort of attenuator? Will I be able to reach good tone at lower volume?
A matter of dedicated vs blending sound I guess. Chances are though the 1x12 is going to be an 8 Ohm speaker version, which roughly is double the output rating every 4 Ohms because the amp may be rated at 4 Ohms might be 40W, at 8 Ohms becomes roughly 20W and at 16 Ohms is 10W. The 2x12 is a matter of series or parallel as is the 4x12. 4x16 Ohm speakers is generally wired as an 8 Ohm cabinet, combination of 2 speakers wired in series, 2 in parallel. The 2x16 Ohm is either 32 Ohm in series or 8 Ohm in parallel cabinet. It's not a matter of being a fair test to do this with the same 16 Ohm speakers because cabinet manufacturers use different Ohm speakers for 1x, 2x & 4x. The other aspect, when you have 1x, 2x or 4x speakers the cab can handle a combined higher wattage, the 1x12 with the 30W rated speaker and the amp needs to be under 30W. A 2x12 doubles that power rating, to 60W, so you can use a more powerful amp. A 4x12 and that's a whopping 120W capable cabinet. We're seeing the difference between a 20, 50 & 100W amp head going into what the cabinet is capable of handling without imploding. The figures I used, based upon generalities, not a specific case.
I'd be interested to see if you could make them sound closer to each other with changes of the amp EQ, mic placement and post production. So, can you make a 1x12, a 2x12 and a 4x12 sound the same in a mix? I'd love to see you try that as I'd like to buy a cab and potentially save some money. Personally liked the 4x12 a little more in some ways as the 2x12 was a little too 'bitey', a focus on the upper mids/lower treble. I'd probably choose the 2x12 saying that though as the extra bite would probably be helpful with some tone shaping from the amp + mic placement.
You changed the color of your socks between them, rendering the whole test null and void. You’ll have to do the whole thing over again. But seriously. Thanks for this. It’s amazing how the size of the cabinet - pretty sure that’s what the diff is - makes a huge difference. Smaller = brighter. Bigger = darker, maybe smoother. Maybe less gunk to have to EQ out. I’d guess a single speaker with each of those sizes might give the same result. Not sure tho...
2x12 sounds for me best. But what ist about the loudness (db)? I'm personally a bedroom shredder and have a 1x12. Actually I'm thinking about a 2x12 regarding the more dimensional sound. My only concern is the loudness. Are they louder?
Ooh that’s a good one- darker cab vs darker speaker. I’ll see if I can make that happen. I could use the DIs from Cage as reference, with your permission?
awesome, looking forward to it. i´m thinking about getting me a real amp at some point. if not this year, perhaps next year. so i´m also thinking about what would be the best bang for the buck cab option. right now i´m thinking about building my own 1x12 with a greenback.
1x12 sounded thinner than 2x12 which sounded thinner than 4x12. That is how it translated in this video though it probably just sounds more focused in the room. I have a closed back 1x12 and a closed back 2x12 and the dispersion seems different, but they both get equally as loud with the same source.
Good comparison vid. If doing it again I'd say definitely need a room mic. Also, not easy to make equal comparison as the speakers aren't being driven the same amount. The 412 speakers would be running at 25% and the 212's at 50% if the 112 was maxed out so I'd fully expect different results when just mixing the 1 cone. Nonetheless, good vid, well done...
Hop pole studios. Thanks for the vid very useful. Which would you say is louder the science says with more speakers it would have less volume I.E 1 watt = 100 dB (v30 sensitivity rating) so 1 watt into 1 v-30 is 100db where as 1 watt into 4 v-30s would be .25 for each lowering the dB and the perceived volume. Would you say your test agrees with that or no? I’m trying to lower my amps volume!
That’s definitely not how it works- it’s roughly the same volume if not a little louder with more speakers due to equal power distribution. If you’re trying to lower the volume you need an attenuator
Hop Pole Studios well there’s lots of ways to lower the volume, and that is how it works the get there sensitivity rating using one watt testing at one meter so 1 watt into 1 speaker is 100 dB so 1 watt into 4 speakers would be 120 dB ( i now know that bc I asked someone else) before I thought it would be lower in dB either way thanks for the reply
Thanks for the comparison. It was insightful. I like a warm tone that sounds as natural as possible. So for me, the 4x12 sounded best. I use a 4x12 and don't even load it with 4 speakers. I set two diagonally. Lighter to carry around. For the type of sound I want, I have found the bigger the cabinet, in general, the nicer the tone. There is even great variation in 4x12s. I have found 3/4" plywood to produce a cabinet with better tone than 3/4" particleboard. Plywood is also lighter and stronger than particleboard. Also the grill matters. Some grill cloths take more treble out of the sound than others.
Wow great Video. i personally didn't notice much difference in the mix. when by themselves i noticed a minor difference between the 2x12 and the 4x12. The 1x12 though sounded extremely thin outside the mix.
Treat comparison. I think I prefer the sound of the 2 by 12, but agree with your need as a mix engineer for a more focused tone with not too much lows. I've been wondering about the difference between 10, 12 and 15 inch speakers (I own a Peavey Delta Blues with 15 inch speaker). I'm considering buying a small tube amp and build a cabinet myself. But which cabinet, and for thast matter: which amp?
It's seems, to me, to be a great presentation of the 3 cab types, I heard the 4x12 as full, rich low end, nice mid range, with a bit of a muddied high end. 2x12 Sounds pretty amazing with enough low end to bark and growl but not muddle, mids are spanking crunch, and High end is crisp&sharp. 1x12 Is same as 2x12 just less low end a bit more biting in the highs. All in all, I think my ideal set up would be 1-4x12 cab, 1-2x12 cab and 2 -1x12 cabs. Put a Driftwood Purple Nightmare, Fortin Natas or Randall Satan, and the beast in me would be satisfied! the comments tell me how subjective and preference based finding the best tone is. It boils down to what sounds best to you? If I had to pick only one though... 2x12 for me.
Hey there great video. I have a question. For live purposes, what would be the difference in tone if I played through one 2x12 cab v.s. having two 1x12 cabs onstage? Keep in mind that i play small bars and not medium to big venues and that there is no stereo config. Thanks
Oh, and most places i play, we do not mic the cabs. Usually 50-75 people in attendance and I play classic rock and hard rock as well as some newer stuff from 2000 and on.
For my ears the 4x is better than the 2x is better than the 1x. But I'm thinking of getting the Origin 20. The question is, should I get a 2x12 cab, or will it sound the same as 2 1x12 cabs (which is easier to carry and mess around with). Do the speakers in the same cab make a difference?
That's the technique I employ...two112 cabs....one open back w/ v30 and one closed back w/ elite80 (egnater). They are easier to hoist and I can spread them out for better coverage. This works better when not miking
Doesn't every speaker have a slight different sound to it? Like if you compare 2 of the same model vintage 30's they will sound slightly different? Did you use the exact same speaker (like take it out of the 4x12 and put it in the 2x12 and 1x12) to do the tests? If you watch SpectreSoundStudio's video on how to record heavy guitar, he shows that his 4x12, even though it has all the same model V30 in it, each speaker each had its own slight sound difference.
oke oke this was interesting. but what if you took a 412 with 16ohms v30, a 212 with 8ohms v30 and a 112 with 4ohms v30. because the extra windings on the speaker makes it brighter and with the low end on a 412 balances it out. so a 212 8ohms and a 112 4ohms should sound the same???
+bryan berends not only is that not how it works, Celestion don't sell a 4 ohm V30. I asked them directly. There's a lot more going on than brightness based on coil windings
Great video, and most informative. However, as a gigging musician who plays in venues where we have to rely on the sound from the amp, rather than miked through the PA, it would have been interesting to hear the cabs from the player's point of view ie miked from 8-12ft away, rather than 8-12mm(!), to get an idea of how each interact with the room environment. Obviously, you've exhausted this setup now, but it would be great if you could include a 'what the things really sound like from speaker to ear' section in future comparisons.
as far as i can tell in my studio, the smaller cabinet made a brighter sound. this makes sense because the modes depend on the physical dimensions of the cabinet as well as the speed of sound. less distance for the sound to travel equal higher frequency modes which means a brighter sound. also i don't think there would be any difference in the tone between having 1 speaker or 4 speakers in the same cabinet, the difference would be in the dispersion of sound and not the actual quality or tone. i'd like to see a comparison between open and closed cabinets, i predict the closed cabinet would make tighter bass, but would see more harmonic distortion at high volume.
Hi, I've just stumbled across this video (exactly what I wanted to find) and I've not yet got into the body of the video, but can you tell me what the music is in the background. It sounds awesome :)
I agree that the less speakers, the more focused the sound is but there is a down side. The 1x12 was so much harsher than the 2x12 even in the mix. I hope the mic placements were 100% the same across all 3 cabs.
I'm guessing the amp settings were tweaked on the 4x12 and then used on the 2x12 and 1x12 as well? The results might have been different if you had tweaked it on the 1x12 to where it sounded good and then moved up to 4x12.
This argument makes no sense. The amp was set on a generically pleasing tone, with no bias or favour towards any one cab. Not a flaw even if this was the case, as what sounds “good” to me might sound bad to someone else. If you’re thinking one sounds better, that’s personal preference
@@adamsteelproducer I'm sorry, I didn't meant to sounds rude. Don't need to be so defensive. Your test is great and valid anyway, we can hear general differences. But the amp was set on a generically PLEASING tone on the FIRST cab you had hooked up. If that's a fact, the other 2 cab didn't have that "benefit". A different approach would be have that test in 4 stages. Stage 1: All amps at noon. Stage 2: All amps with the same bass boost. Stage 3 All amps with the same mid scooped. Stage 4 All amps with the same hi/presence boost. This way it would be possible to hear how each cab reacts to each of those boosts.
But all settings any particular way should be of no consequence in a comparison. If you thought it sounded best on the first cab great, but how do you know I recorded it in that order? Perhaps I changed it round :) Also that set of tests you suggest would take forever to film. If you want to do that then go right ahead! More investigation in the guitar community is always good
Excellent comparison! I found 2 x 12 and 1 x 12 best where the sound definition on the 1 x 12 was very nice! Would wonder whether 2 x. 1 x 12 with differenr speakers would be a great option to? ( out of the Studio) or better a 2 x 12? On a Marshall recently 8 Ohms sounded less fizzy! Thanks
What is the amp wattage powering each cab? Running power more efficiently to a 1x12 vs under powering a 4x12 would make an astronomical difference in sound.
+Nicholas Knight the amp was set identically each time, probably pumping around 50-60W at a guess. You may have a point, but that's part of the results as much as anything else- but I can assure you the 4x12 wasn't underpowered. It was easily loud enough to send someone half deaf, the speakers were moving
Dunno if it was the speaker on 212 but it sounded a bit harsh in terms of a clipping pinching noise but overall it’s still will remain subjective to all ears. 👍🏽
This is frustrating me and I can't find the video with your 6505+ gutted out, what cable did you use to hook a gutted amp to different speaker cabinets? Can't find them anywhere
The 6505+ still had 2 regular speaker jacks on the back, I took the wooden enclosure off but that doesn’t change the amp setup. Standard speaker cables work just fine
Interesting how big will be the difference from a listener perspective? When you put mic in front of one speaker it collects low frequencies form other speakers since low frequencies are not directional. But if you stay few meters from cab, how big will be the difference? Maybe you can do another test with room mic? ;)
Man thanks a lot for these comparision vids. A question that came out for me is if the grill coth (present only in the 4x12) makes any relevant diference in the tone. Because 2x12 and 1x12 sounded more "sharp" for me.
Nice video, but I think you may be missing the point by placing the mic on the speaker as opposed to in the room placed by your ears pointing at the cabs (may require a different mike).
I disagree, the point is the point. In my context, recorded tone is everything. What happens in the room is largely immaterial and doesn’t translate to recordings at all, I’ve made other videos on that as well to confirm that claim. Of course cabs sound different in the room, but in a modern recording context how much difference does it really make? That’s the point here.
@@adamsteelproducer in a recording context I totally agree with you (I think I missed that part of the video where that was mention), obviously I feel differently about it in a live playing context which is all I was referring to.... I got my wires crossed!
It's 2 X 12 for me. i just bought the Scarlett 2i4 and i'm currently confused about monitors. i would love very much to hear your opinions on the subject in a video. Cheers mate!
4X12 without a doubt, 2x12 sounded preety good too! Quick question, think you can do a video where you compare the regular zilla 4x12 with the oversized one? I can`t find ONE video on youtube of that cab!
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A great comparison.
Thank you for making videos like this.
Great work
Man that 4x12 is FAT !
Actual sounds start at 3:24
Perfectly done comparison
2x12 sounded best to me, it combined the best qualities of the 1x12 and 4x12; not too dark/dull and not too bright.
I assumed I'd like the 4x12 best, but the 2x12 was definitely my favorite too.
Exactly. Especially the solo part proves this. Not as dull as the 4x12, enough cutting force, but not as harsh and light bottomed as the 1x12.
Agree
That was my least favorite. very spiky. Was surprised how good the single 12 sounded but the 4x12 sounded the best.
Most of feeling of 'size' with a 112 can be solved with a port. If you need more than that, get two 112 speakers. 1 ported and 1 sealed. Easier to carry around by far, and has all that focus the 212 and 412 lack.
This and other videos were such an eye-opener for my guitar tone. I'd been fiddling with the wrong part of the gear for the longest time! It's the speaker & cab that makes all the difference!
This is great! 2x12's are still my favorite for live and recording after this! I'm glad you redid this video. Cab sizes are something guitarists are very curious about but there hasn't been a good video comparison like this until now. Thanks!
The sound was brighter as the cabs got smaller. This was really well done. I wish you would have added a room mic to allow a comparison between how the cabs sounded from a few feet back as well. I think that would have brought out even more differences. Great video!
David Schiedler
Ya, another reason to make a new comparison...
They’re coming! It just takes ages to get organised and do the whole thing
That's couse overall impedande had changed between cabinets so treble gets fucked up by the same impedance output of amp.
Not true- the impedance of the amp was changed to match each speaker load.
Agreed. The less speakers equal more treble punch....i need the warmth of the 4x12. Cuz i play a Stratocaster
Big respect for listening to your community and making corrections.
Cheers :)
This was great video and helped confirm what I always thought I was hearing between my 2x12 and 4x12. The 4x12 definitely bring out the percussive bass frequencies more and make everything sound fatter. I like that kind of big sound in person, but can see how that'd get in the way with playing nice with the other frequencies in a production mix.
Edit: Also - those Zilla cabs look sweet. I'd love to buy one and have it shipped across the pond. Top notch gear!
This was immensely useful!! Thank you so much for making this, and for being willing to remake your previous video using viewer feedback! That's really great.
That was a VERY well done analysis. And the audio results make total sense... 1 cone is more focused and cuts, with two you the signal has more phase issues (and richer sound), and with 4 much more of both.
The 4x12 sounds richer to the ear but recording wise, Imo the best is to record 1x12 for a purest (less smeared) wave which cut in the mix, and then work in the mix to get the precise sound you want (ej doubling, chorusing etc).
Wow the 2x12 was the best hands down. It has the clarity in the high end of the 1x12 and the tight and fat bottom end of the 4x12. Thanks for taking the time to compare these and post it here.
Nice demo, thanks for posting it! I've been playing with a vertical 2x12 lately and am really pleased with the results.
Thanks so much for this video! I've been saving my space in my studio with 2X12 cabs and just never got the oomph I've been looking for. It's quite obvious that "size matters". Yes, it may be the power handling/spreading as well. On my studio monitors, the sound follows the visuals exactly. If you want big, you need 4X12. I do see the the need for the others too. They get more intimate the smaller they get. Very educational vid. Thanks again!
please bring back these tone comparison videos!
thanks man really like your clean character and professional tips
Great video mate, videos like this are really informative!
Haha so you found the all-Zilla version then :)
@@adamsteelproducer haha I couldn't resist.
Surprising how differently people react. Maybe it depends by the speakers they are listening this (well done) video...
Thank you very much for this surgery precision test! You showed me what to look for my rig. BIG RESPECT!!!
Good work. The grill cloth will dampen the highs a tad for 412 cab. I think mics placed at each cab's mid centre maybe 1 metre away from front would also make an interesting comparo
At some point we’re doing a revisit of this series and including room mics. As for the grill cloth, that’s mostly a myth! I made a video on it
Zilla did a demo of grill cloths and the differing results were so microscopic that their recommendation is to just pick the grill cloth that looks good.. At least from their selections.
Yep! I’m going to the Zilla factory tomorrow to see them and maybe appear in a video!
@@adamsteelproducer what a coincidence! Hehe
@@adamsteelproducer My main thing about speaker grills is that I have to easily see the cone with just a small flashlight. If I can't see the cone with just my phone's flashlight, it becomes a pita.
Another cool thing to use bth is a smapp led floor lamp or clip on lamp... Preferably with a flat face that doesn't leak to the sides, to put flat, right on the speaker grill.
Great job man, excellent video!
Awesome vid, 212 to the win!
Very interesting man. I'm starting to think about 112 for gigs :D
Maybe I missed something but you have the mic 2" away from one speaker in all the tests. If you are testing a 4x12 vs 2x12 vs 1x12 shouldn't the mic be placed like 10' away? Seems like all this is doing is allowing us to hear one speaker which doesn't make a difference.
Hey brother. Looks like Glenn loved your video. Great job.
+Parker Murray hey :) yeah I just saw that. So happy! Cheers!
Great video, to my ear, I enjoyed the 4x12 sound the most. It seems more layered, more lows; whereas the 2x12 and 1x12 had a brighter sound emphasizing the highs more.
Such a helpful and interesting video - learnt a lot here! Thank you
Excellent video and comparison!
Great review, surprised how much I loved the 112.
The 2x12 does indeed sound nicest....on a phone or laptop :). However, the 4x12, even though only one speaker is mic'd up, still rules the roost on a good set of studio monitors, which is where this comparison really makes the differences apparent. All three sounded like my experience both live and at home over many decades. And, the 4x12 always sounds best in the room. The 2x12 just doesn't sound as together and fat, or sit in a mix like a good 4x12. After owning about every Marshall 1x12. 2x12 and 4x12 made from 1964 through the 60's, 70's and 80's. I kept two 4x12's over all the others. Your experience may differ, but for me nothing beats a 4x12 for tone and balls, at any volume level. This video reinforces that very well. Great job on it...my two cents.
Through my monitors the 2x12 sounds the nicest.
4x12 sound great except your soundman will hate you , your back pain will get to you later in life and transporting it without a truck is not easy
in my room 2x12 is the one.
Cuts, won't have to pull low end out to make it fit well.
This is really interesting, what is more pleasing on its own (imo the 4x12) is very different to what works best in a mix (imo the 1x12)
That grille cloth on the 4x12 most definitely contributes to the darker tone
It does not, I did a separate video about this and proved that it affects nothing below about 18kHz (and guitar speakers cut off above approx 7-8kHz)
good comparison, def depends on the type of music you gonna do and with which other instruments you are playing you wanna choose one or the other option
Excellent and thorough comparison, I preferred the 4x12
So at least in this vid you can tell that it's the same speaker many times. That's pretty nice. You can tell there's more bottom-end saturation in the 4x12 and... well, it kinda gets a little mushy. Almost feels like 2x12 is the midway as the 1x12 felt a little too bright.
Then we've got the angled 2x12 but that's a different story. And I'm here like 6 years later so. :D Never mind me.
Great job . Very interesting results . Each cab delivering great tone. That 2x12 was awesome. I liked them all for sure . I just have a thing for that 4x12 honk . What I may have a preference or bias on is rear loaded vs front loaded cab configs. I prefer rear loaded , as were these cabs and believe rear loaded is best . Maybe that could be another comparison test for you to do as well ?
Thanks for this. I was surprised because the smaller amp/cab you use, generally, the bigger sound you get because you're maxing things much easier. But the 2x12 actually sounded better to me than the 1x12 3/4 time. The compromise is how much volume you want and volume doesn't scale linearly with voltage (ask my Bassman 70 vs my 100 and 140w). It was definitely brighter the smaller the cab was but the 1x12 was a good mix. That's just my ears, and I prefer open back, but everyone's got their own taste.
Your Conclusion threw me off haha I finished it convinced the 1x12 is worse than I had ever noticed haha Cheers o/
Nice video man! I'm gonna check this on proper speakers as soon as I get the chance :) Even on my laptop's built-in speakers the difference is huge.
Brilliant. Thanks
Perfect demonstration. For recording/digital I think it's just a different starting point in terms of EQ. "In the room" it matters a lot on what you type of music you make, your preference and of course the room itself. Personally, I would never got for anything bigger than a 1x12. It's just a hassle to move them around... but if I ever play a big avenue I want a 4x12.
👍🇺🇸❤412 WARMER & MORE BALANCED (the xtra 2 speakers help load down the sound, less loudness / harshness ) * more full bodied........🤓 2X12 SOUNDS LOUDER & BRIGHTER.........1×12 will even be more percussive , harsh & raw........the less speakers the more push from the amplifier. The size of the enclosure's sound waves plays a big roll👍🇺🇸❤I always use 2 - 4X12's....per 100w amp head.
great comparison thanks bro!
This is good to know. I just bought a Marshall dsl1r head, but I couldn’t afford a cab so I got a Crate 250 2x12 combo cheap. I’m either gonna it and make it closed back or just close off the back and leave the amp inside. I know they’re not Celestion Vintage 30’s but it’s a start. The speakers are 8 ohm wired in parallel to 4 ohms . Gonna wire them in series to 16 ohm to match the amps impedance.
Hah. A bit late on this one. Definitely the best comparison, even in 2020. That 2x12 does have the edge for my ears.
Never too late, it’s timeless! :)
Excellent work. I have an ENGL 4x12 and a 2x12 with speakers made within 6 months, and I am blown away by the difference, even when sitting straight in front of the cones. Was considering by a 1x12 because I don't like the 2x12 as much, but this makes me doubt it'll make me happy either. The 4x12 is so much more polished. In your video, the only thing I would think that would create a difference would be if the V30's were of a different vintage, but I guess they were all relatively recently produced at the time of making?
I got myself a Zilla Fat Baby and was dissapointed to find out that the grill cloth is actually not resting on the baffle but around 2cm off the baffle. Dissapointing because I always mic my dynamic mics right on the grill. Is that why you take the grill on your?
That’s the design of every good speaker cloth on pretty much any cab- they need something to mount the cloth to! But to answer your question, no- I take the grill off so I can see quickly and clearly where my mics are pointing and save a lot of time instead of guessing or messing around with torches
One variation I noticed was that the 4x12 had a non see through screen and because of this you may have slightly different mic placement. The 2x12 had the mics pointed for the most part closer to the center of the speaker. These speakers typically need to be mic'd slightly off axis just outside of the center paper ring 2 - 3 inches. The region right in the middle speaker will definitely sound brighter, compared to mic'ing the speaker in between the outside edge and the center ring. Still a very good video, and presented very well. Cheers
The speakers were miced identically, a lot of time, torches and measuring tape were used to make sure they were accurate! And the grill cloth makes little difference, we made another video to show that.
wow, what differences ... great video !
yeah it makes sense to drive only one speaker becouse it pushes more air with lover volume and it that matter puts more higer hz and box size gives optimum lo fruequecy cut ... Q is? if you comppare to it 4x12 and 2x12 with conecting only one speaker in them would give different results? cheers!
That 2x12 Cab sounds the best by Far. The grill cloth on the 4x12 probably limited you to being able to get the 🎤's as close to the speaker 🔊as you were able to on the others. With that being said I still really enjoyed the video. Thanks for sharing. 🤘
Biggest change in your tone is your speakers. This is the most overlooked aspect of a rig. You will notice drastic tone change by just a speaker swap. Stsrt there if your pretty satisfied with your rig but want something new
I have a Mark V 25 with a 2x12, but i think it's too loud and I can't crank it on an apartment. If I use a 1x12 will it act as some sort of attenuator? Will I be able to reach good tone at lower volume?
Simply put- no. You might get a few dab reduction but it will still be offensively loud! You need an attenuator, like a two notes Captor 8
@@adamsteelproducer is the captor X as good?
A matter of dedicated vs blending sound I guess. Chances are though the 1x12 is going to be an 8 Ohm speaker version, which roughly is double the output rating every 4 Ohms because the amp may be rated at 4 Ohms might be 40W, at 8 Ohms becomes roughly 20W and at 16 Ohms is 10W. The 2x12 is a matter of series or parallel as is the 4x12. 4x16 Ohm speakers is generally wired as an 8 Ohm cabinet, combination of 2 speakers wired in series, 2 in parallel. The 2x16 Ohm is either 32 Ohm in series or 8 Ohm in parallel cabinet. It's not a matter of being a fair test to do this with the same 16 Ohm speakers because cabinet manufacturers use different Ohm speakers for 1x, 2x & 4x. The other aspect, when you have 1x, 2x or 4x speakers the cab can handle a combined higher wattage, the 1x12 with the 30W rated speaker and the amp needs to be under 30W. A 2x12 doubles that power rating, to 60W, so you can use a more powerful amp. A 4x12 and that's a whopping 120W capable cabinet. We're seeing the difference between a 20, 50 & 100W amp head going into what the cabinet is capable of handling without imploding. The figures I used, based upon generalities, not a specific case.
Great video. 2X12 sound the best for me. Thank you for the good work!
I'd be interested to see if you could make them sound closer to each other with changes of the amp EQ, mic placement and post production. So, can you make a 1x12, a 2x12 and a 4x12 sound the same in a mix? I'd love to see you try that as I'd like to buy a cab and potentially save some money.
Personally liked the 4x12 a little more in some ways as the 2x12 was a little too 'bitey', a focus on the upper mids/lower treble. I'd probably choose the 2x12 saying that though as the extra bite would probably be helpful with some tone shaping from the amp + mic placement.
You changed the color of your socks between them, rendering the whole test null and void. You’ll have to do the whole thing over again.
But seriously. Thanks for this. It’s amazing how the size of the cabinet - pretty sure that’s what the diff is - makes a huge difference. Smaller = brighter. Bigger = darker, maybe smoother. Maybe less gunk to have to EQ out.
I’d guess a single speaker with each of those sizes might give the same result. Not sure tho...
The 2x12 sounded amazin.
2x12 sounds for me best. But what ist about the loudness (db)? I'm personally a bedroom shredder and have a 1x12. Actually I'm thinking about a 2x12 regarding the more dimensional sound. My only concern is the loudness. Are they louder?
+Oliver Heuschele well they're a little louder (3-6dB) but if your amp can go down a tiny bit more then it's not a peoblem
great comparison. now i´m interested how a 4x12 with 16 ohm speakers compares to a 1x12 with an 8 ohm speaker.
Ooh that’s a good one- darker cab vs darker speaker. I’ll see if I can make that happen. I could use the DIs from Cage as reference, with your permission?
sure, that´s no problem.
This week then! I was going to make a video about how to Reamp guitars, this is a perfect time to make another comparison whilst I’m at it :)
awesome, looking forward to it. i´m thinking about getting me a real amp at some point. if not this year, perhaps next year. so i´m also thinking about what would be the best bang for the buck cab option. right now i´m thinking about building my own 1x12 with a greenback.
1x12 sounded thinner than 2x12 which sounded thinner than 4x12. That is how it translated in this video though it probably just sounds more focused in the room. I have a closed back 1x12 and a closed back 2x12 and the dispersion seems different, but they both get equally as loud with the same source.
The 4x12 sounded much more balanced than all the rest. I wonder how a 2 x 12 would sound paired with a 1x 12 speaker cabinet?
Great video! btw dude you look EXACTLY like Ben Bruce from Asking Alexandria lol
Good comparison vid. If doing it again I'd say definitely need a room mic. Also, not easy to make equal comparison as the speakers aren't being driven the same amount. The 412 speakers would be running at 25% and the 212's at 50% if the 112 was maxed out so I'd fully expect different results when just mixing the 1 cone. Nonetheless, good vid, well done...
The 2x12 cab sounds perfect. It sounds big and bright and not boxed in.
Could it be possible that I like the definition of 1x12 better?
I don't know if it would be possible to hear yourself well in a live concert.
If cab goes into mic and through PA... does the number of speakers in cab matter?
Not directly. Only in the sense of the cab dimensions affecting tone (and a few other smaller factors)
What is the difference in the sound when recorded 5-10 - 15 - 20 meters away from the boxes? Same scenario as in this vid.
Wow, thats quite a difference, the 4x12 is much darker sounding and 2x12 brighter and the 1x12 even brighter
Hop pole studios. Thanks for the vid very useful. Which would you say is louder the science says with more speakers it would have less volume I.E 1 watt = 100 dB (v30 sensitivity rating) so 1 watt into 1 v-30 is 100db where as 1 watt into 4 v-30s would be .25 for each lowering the dB and the perceived volume. Would you say your test agrees with that or no? I’m trying to lower my amps volume!
That’s definitely not how it works- it’s roughly the same volume if not a little louder with more speakers due to equal power distribution. If you’re trying to lower the volume you need an attenuator
Hop Pole Studios well there’s lots of ways to lower the volume, and that is how it works the get there sensitivity rating using one watt testing at one meter so 1 watt into 1 speaker is 100 dB so 1 watt into 4 speakers would be 120 dB ( i now know that bc I asked someone else) before I thought it would be lower in dB either way thanks for the reply
Thanks for the comparison. It was insightful. I like a warm tone that sounds as natural as possible. So for me, the 4x12 sounded best. I use a 4x12 and don't even load it with 4 speakers. I set two diagonally. Lighter to carry around. For the type of sound I want, I have found the bigger the cabinet, in general, the nicer the tone. There is even great variation in 4x12s. I have found 3/4" plywood to produce a cabinet with better tone than 3/4" particleboard. Plywood is also lighter and stronger than particleboard. Also the grill matters. Some grill cloths take more treble out of the sound than others.
Thanks for this. I preferred the 4x12, properly meaty
Best review! But i have question, which is better a 40w 1x12 or a 40w (20w+ 20w) 2x12?
I have no way to tell without hearing them, your amp, your playing, your setup and more
Wow great Video. i personally didn't notice much difference in the mix. when by themselves i noticed a minor difference between the 2x12 and the 4x12. The 1x12 though sounded extremely thin outside the mix.
Treat comparison. I think I prefer the sound of the 2 by 12, but agree with your need as a mix engineer for a more focused tone with not too much lows.
I've been wondering about the difference between 10, 12 and 15 inch speakers (I own a Peavey Delta Blues with 15 inch speaker). I'm considering buying a small tube amp and build a cabinet myself. But which cabinet, and for thast matter: which amp?
It's seems, to me, to be a great presentation of the 3 cab types, I heard the 4x12 as full, rich low end, nice mid range, with a bit of a muddied high end. 2x12 Sounds pretty amazing with enough low end to bark and growl but not muddle, mids are spanking crunch, and High end is crisp&sharp. 1x12 Is same as 2x12 just less low end a bit more biting in the highs. All in all, I think my ideal set up would be 1-4x12 cab, 1-2x12 cab and 2 -1x12 cabs. Put a Driftwood Purple Nightmare, Fortin Natas or Randall Satan, and the beast in me would be satisfied! the comments tell me how subjective and preference based finding the best tone is. It boils down to what sounds best to you? If I had to pick only one though... 2x12 for me.
Hey there great video. I have a question. For live purposes, what would be the difference in tone if I played through one 2x12 cab v.s. having two 1x12 cabs onstage? Keep in mind that i play small bars and not medium to big venues and that there is no stereo config.
Thanks
Oh, and most places i play, we do not mic the cabs. Usually 50-75 people in attendance and I play classic rock and hard rock as well as some newer stuff from 2000 and on.
Now i would love to see 4x10 in the mix lol
For my ears the 4x is better than the 2x is better than the 1x. But I'm thinking of getting the Origin 20. The question is, should I get a 2x12 cab, or will it sound the same as 2 1x12 cabs (which is easier to carry and mess around with). Do the speakers in the same cab make a difference?
That's the technique I employ...two112 cabs....one open back w/ v30 and one closed back w/ elite80 (egnater). They are easier to hoist and I can spread them out for better coverage. This works better when not miking
That's a huge difference
Great video. I liked the 412 the best but I can see how the other two may help cut through the mix.
Doesn't every speaker have a slight different sound to it? Like if you compare 2 of the same model vintage 30's they will sound slightly different? Did you use the exact same speaker (like take it out of the 4x12 and put it in the 2x12 and 1x12) to do the tests? If you watch SpectreSoundStudio's video on how to record heavy guitar, he shows that his 4x12, even though it has all the same model V30 in it, each speaker each had its own slight sound difference.
oke oke this was interesting. but what if you took a 412 with 16ohms v30, a 212 with 8ohms v30 and a 112 with 4ohms v30. because the extra windings on the speaker makes it brighter and with the low end on a 412 balances it out. so a 212 8ohms and a 112 4ohms should sound the same???
+bryan berends not only is that not how it works, Celestion don't sell a 4 ohm V30. I asked them directly. There's a lot more going on than brightness based on coil windings
my mind just exploded... so much to test...
Great video, and most informative. However, as a gigging musician who plays in venues where we have to rely on the sound from the amp, rather than miked through the PA, it would have been interesting to hear the cabs from the player's point of view ie miked from 8-12ft away, rather than 8-12mm(!), to get an idea of how each interact with the room environment. Obviously, you've exhausted this setup now, but it would be great if you could include a 'what the things really sound like from speaker to ear' section in future comparisons.
as far as i can tell in my studio, the smaller cabinet made a brighter sound. this makes sense because the modes depend on the physical dimensions of the cabinet as well as the speed of sound. less distance for the sound to travel equal higher frequency modes which means a brighter sound. also i don't think there would be any difference in the tone between having 1 speaker or 4 speakers in the same cabinet, the difference would be in the dispersion of sound and not the actual quality or tone.
i'd like to see a comparison between open and closed cabinets, i predict the closed cabinet would make tighter bass, but would see more harmonic distortion at high volume.
Hi, I've just stumbled across this video (exactly what I wanted to find) and I've not yet got into the body of the video, but can you tell me what the music is in the background. It sounds awesome :)
I agree that the less speakers, the more focused the sound is but there is a down side. The 1x12 was so much harsher than the 2x12 even in the mix. I hope the mic placements were 100% the same across all 3 cabs.
2x12 is strong, very similar to 1x12, i think for live a 2x12 can be awesome, and for home and studio 1x12, 2x12 for heads and 1x12 combo
I'm guessing the amp settings were tweaked on the 4x12 and then used on the 2x12 and 1x12 as well? The results might have been different if you had tweaked it on the 1x12 to where it sounded good and then moved up to 4x12.
Good point...
I suppose they used something like noon setting. Otherwise it's a flaw indeed.
This argument makes no sense. The amp was set on a generically pleasing tone, with no bias or favour towards any one cab. Not a flaw even if this was the case, as what sounds “good” to me might sound bad to someone else. If you’re thinking one sounds better, that’s personal preference
@@adamsteelproducer I'm sorry, I didn't meant to sounds rude. Don't need to be so defensive. Your test is great and valid anyway, we can hear general differences. But the amp was set on a generically PLEASING tone on the FIRST cab you had hooked up. If that's a fact, the other 2 cab didn't have that "benefit". A different approach would be have that test in 4 stages. Stage 1: All amps at noon. Stage 2: All amps with the same bass boost. Stage 3 All amps with the same mid scooped. Stage 4 All amps with the same hi/presence boost. This way it would be possible to hear how each cab reacts to each of those boosts.
But all settings any particular way should be of no consequence in a comparison. If you thought it sounded best on the first cab great, but how do you know I recorded it in that order? Perhaps I changed it round :)
Also that set of tests you suggest would take forever to film. If you want to do that then go right ahead! More investigation in the guitar community is always good
Excellent comparison! I found 2 x 12 and 1 x 12 best where the sound definition on the 1 x 12 was very nice! Would wonder whether 2 x. 1 x 12 with differenr speakers would be a great option to? ( out of the Studio) or better a 2 x 12? On a Marshall recently 8 Ohms sounded less fizzy! Thanks
Great job man! I do like the 212 and the 112 a combination of both would sound best, i think.
What is the amp wattage powering each cab? Running power more efficiently to a 1x12 vs under powering a 4x12 would make an astronomical difference in sound.
+Nicholas Knight the amp was set identically each time, probably pumping around 50-60W at a guess. You may have a point, but that's part of the results as much as anything else- but I can assure you the 4x12 wasn't underpowered. It was easily loud enough to send someone half deaf, the speakers were moving
Dunno if it was the speaker on 212 but it sounded a bit harsh in terms of a clipping pinching noise but overall it’s still will remain subjective to all ears. 👍🏽
This is frustrating me and I can't find the video with your 6505+ gutted out, what cable did you use to hook a gutted amp to different speaker cabinets? Can't find them anywhere
The 6505+ still had 2 regular speaker jacks on the back, I took the wooden enclosure off but that doesn’t change the amp setup. Standard speaker cables work just fine
Interesting how big will be the difference from a listener perspective? When you put mic in front of one speaker it collects low frequencies form other speakers since low frequencies are not directional. But if you stay few meters from cab, how big will be the difference? Maybe you can do another test with room mic? ;)
if one speaker is mic'ed and you're not 'in the room' then why would it matter if it was 1x12, 2x12 or a 63x12?
Because the number of speakers vibrating the same baffle, the cabinet dimensions etc make for very different sounds. Can you not hear it?
Man thanks a lot for these comparision vids. A question that came out for me is if the grill coth (present only in the 4x12) makes any relevant diference in the tone. Because 2x12 and 1x12 sounded more "sharp" for me.
+Renan B. Galatril's Hall I don't think it makes much of a difference, but I'm planning on making a video about this in the near future to be sure
Nice video, but I think you may be missing the point by placing the mic on the speaker as opposed to in the room placed by your ears pointing at the cabs (may require a different mike).
I disagree, the point is the point. In my context, recorded tone is everything. What happens in the room is largely immaterial and doesn’t translate to recordings at all, I’ve made other videos on that as well to confirm that claim. Of course cabs sound different in the room, but in a modern recording context how much difference does it really make? That’s the point here.
@@adamsteelproducer in a recording context I totally agree with you (I think I missed that part of the video where that was mention), obviously I feel differently about it in a live playing context which is all I was referring to.... I got my wires crossed!
Might be a dumb question, but I didn't see grills on the 2x12 or 1x12, does it affect the sound in anyway?
Not really. I’ve made a video on speaker grills and the very subtle difference is in the super high end, above what guitar speakers can reproduce
@@adamsteelproducer oh ok, thanks for replying! Great shootout by the way
It's 2 X 12 for me.
i just bought the Scarlett 2i4 and i'm currently confused about monitors. i would love very much to hear your opinions on the subject in a video. Cheers mate!
specs and diagram seem outstanding. I will check if they're available in germany, thanks Janeen !
4X12 without a doubt, 2x12 sounded preety good too! Quick question, think you can do a video where you compare the regular zilla 4x12 with the oversized one? I can`t find ONE video on youtube of that cab!
+Robin Hansen maybe in the future- we own all the cabs here but if we can convince the Zilla guys then that could happen!