@@davidlindsey6111 Not me, he's the American Curator of Armour at London's Wallace Collection, our ships are on an interception course as he's tearing the iconic Agincourt apart from a weaponry approach, I'm doing the same from a geopolitical angle on the edge of the Warburg Institute. When the Royal Armouries moved to Leeds, they commissioned a friend of the family (my late wife's, Welsh, you know...), Sir Karl Jenkins, to compose a work for them, The Armed Man. Where the idea came from is anybody's guess, it's possible Cousin Lesley, who ran his local, The Welcome to Gower, may have told him what we were up to, which was eventually gonged with the 2012 Nobel Peace Prize: the work culminated in catching the Roman Catholic seat of the Eucharist as it fell, which led me straight back to a new discovery in the roots of the Renaissance. The entire thing had been set up by a French Cardinal, attempting to stop the Hundred Years War, which had riven the Church, they'd ended up with 3 contending Popes! Allied with the Holy Roman Emperor who needed a unified Christendom to fight off the Ottomans, who clearly had eyes on the Danube lands - this is the setting of Vlad the Impaler, in passing - the French were irritants, and were taken down by Henry V at Agincourt. Now, Henry was closely allied with Burgundy, an HRE fiefdom, in the wool trade, so it doesn't take much to put two and two together, particularly with my experience at the same level in the modern European Council. Heck, one of my ancestors was the Sieur de Gosse de Gorre, head of a band of routiers, freelancer ronin of exactly the kind described in the work. Karl's is simply one of the most recent takes on a French folksong from the same area, first used as folk mass by Guillaume Dufay - it's been rearranged something like 80 times in the 600 years since. Coming into it tracing the religious side at the behest of the Belgian Supreme Court, I spotted this Cardinal had done exactly the same as we'd do now. He presented an argued case, where we'd use academic logic now, he used academic theology then. A Quadrivium case, where two of his team at the Concilium, Dufay and van Eyck, prepared studies of the text from which most Chrismas readings are drawn, Jan van Ruusbroec's Spiritual Tabernacle, the first consolidation of Eucharistic Theology. This was used to invert tgebsecular power structure, the Popes were now to be top dog.
First of all, I'd like to express my thanks to Jonathan and Royal Armouries as well for even taking time to mention this and put it in the spotlight. I myself being Czech of origin, this means quite a lot to me, especially since I'm doing a little bit of a research of Czech firearms during WWI & II and pre-WWI & II. If you would like I could try to dig up these "unsung heroes" names from the archive of 'Zbrojovka Brno' (yes that "ZB" which would eventually collaborated into Bren gun), since I think that this rifle (being such an oddball) deserves this... ;)
I actually thought I read it wrong, I was like "cool, a pump action sniper?!" then he kept going on about it being bullpup and I was like "did I misread bullpup as pump action?!" had to exit full screen to check XD
Same here. This gun would fit perfectly into the Star wars universe in my opinion. Because the vehicles and weapons (the older ones, not the sequel ones) are this mix of different things, with the main priority is that it can be cheaply model for the shots. This is why they look so iconic, chaotic and yet harmonic at the same time with e.g.TIE fighter and a Mon Calamari cruiser look so different and yet they fit perfectly into each other
That is pretty much a nightmare. My grandfather had a Savage 99 which has a rear locking bolt that sort of drops down and back. It also has a sliding safety just behind the trigger. He put a round through the bedroom wall showing me how the safety worked. Very loud! Cheers, Dan.
I gained my Marksman badge on the old .303 in the CCF in the late '50's I could use the bolt without losing my aim too much, though whether that would be good enough for a sniper I don't know, it was good enough for a double tap once I joined up. My dad was posted as the Chief Clerk of the Small Arms School in Kent as a colour SGT in the Lancashire Fusiliers in the early '60's, he took us four boys into work quite often on a Saturday morning and we saw many fantastic small arms being tested. The ranges were just behind our Quarters in Dymchurch Cottages and we boys often squirmed up the sandunes to watch the action. Great times. Jonathan are your books available on Kindle?
Unfortunately, Ian McCollum, owner of headstamp publishing and forgotten weapons, has said there will never be ebooks of headstamp titles due to piracy. Admittedly he has sound reasoning, but as someone with a large ebook collection and a small physical collection, id love to have one in ebook form as well.
Thank you so much for doing this video! ever since i saw the gun in sniper elite 5 i have been looking for details on this gun but couldnt find much, you're video is nicely detailed and seeing the gun itself was awesome!
@@wessexdruid7598 I know I saw his video on sniper elite 5 I added this comment because I couldn't find more details on the srem 1 anywhere and then this video came out
I was aware of this rifle before SE5, but I love that it was included and I hope that people’s interests are peaked enough to discover your excellent video and seemingly endless repository of firearms history knowledge.
Ed Browning had a semi-auto with the bolt recoiling back and down: The G30. It has a related development to the M-1 Carbine. I think I got this info from Hatcher's Book of the Garand or maybe Hatcher's Notebook.
Very odd to hear the words "pump-action" and "sniper rifle" in the same sentence, but I have to admit, the pump-action's visually subtle; was wondering where the hell it was on it. Plus, I love weird weapon designs like this are, so it's definitely unique.
My family are long distance shooters, the right handers converted to left hand actions with bipod’s and the lefties to right hand actions. You can keep possession of the rifle and trigger better while you use what would be your front stock hand to reload and cycle the action. With a bipod you don’t need a front hand to hold the rifle it is now used to cycle the action. The back hand keeps the sights/scope on target and cycles the trigger.
05:00 By the time you shoot you have already lost the aiming point. Not to mention the extra movement of the hand and arm to pull back the grip and open the bolt. Push the grip again to feed the new cartridge. Retake the position and aiming again. The rifle is smaller, which leads to probably less weight and therefore greater recoil. Now, let's go to a poor single scope ring, which has to keep a telescope as heavy as No. 32 at zero after firing a 7.92x57 cartridge. Seriously, some designers were a little lost at the time.
Don't always blame the designers. Usually it's the guys writing the requirements who are incompetent and silly or just tailoring the requirements to the grease given to them by a particular manufacturer. Some silly specific feature is usually just the hook to eliminate the competition in tenders.
Its such a curious choice given how effective the No 4T was as a sharpshooters or snipers rifle. The bolt throw on the Enfield being so easy to use you can work it with just your fingers.
A good comparison for the dropping bolt in a full power rifle would be the earlier Ed Browning self-loading rifle that competed with the Pederson and Garand rifles for the US Trials, there's a reason that Winchester changed the Bolt design of the G30 as they continued development, Forgotten Weapons has an entire series on the development of the G30 family for anyone interested. Here's the link, second video on the Winchester guns shows the problems with a bolt that drops into the stock: th-cam.com/video/ioi7D6ce_34/w-d-xo.html
Probably intended more as a squad marksmen weapon, where quick follow up shots could be taken, or multiple targets. This rifle looks a neat, handy design.
My hunting rifle when I was younger was a Remington model 760 pump action. I really liked the rifle. At the time I thought a pump action rifle was just the coolest.
One of my UK shooting baddies had one until they were banned here. They were seen by some as the "gamer gun" for Running Deer Doubles at Bisley. I guess you had to fire two shots rapid at the moving (running deer) target and semiautos were not allowed for that competition.
What caliber? I had a Remington 700 chambered in .270 for my first deer rifle (Mulies in the Rockies). I had a grizzled old uncle that was an excellent tracker/hunter and he carried a pump action rifle but I forget the type.
My grandfather was WSI special forces/commando NCO and code breaker all through the war, serving in various units and regiments like the LRDG, SBS, SASB and 1stSSB. Running lots of recon, intelligence gathering sorties and capture/kill missions. He said they gave him and the blokes all kinds of experimental stuff to try, but in the end, most either didn't work or was too unreliable... (He hated the STEN and all variants for eg, if it didnt jam, it was just as dangerous to the owner as it was the enemy). Said if you had to be quiet, you used your dagger. The best British rifle he used was actually the P14, especially for sharpshooting. He tried to hold onto that for as long as he could, before they eventually took it off him and handed him a No4 claiming it was better (he didnt think so). Eventually late war, they were using a lot of American stuff (Which they traded booze and ciggies for). The regular UK Army would often "requision" their stuff prior to D-Day, so often had to go find new stuff or trade for it. Post D-Day tbey were dar better kitted out. The Bren was his all time favourite weapon of the war, it never let him down. They got the job done with what little they had. Special Operations often didnt have the best stuff, despite popular opinion.
SOE had half of Baker Street reworking everything anyway, as it had to pass German inspection in the street. Mum's aunt ran the La Libre Belgique, and she was picked up by MI9 aged 13, as their home became the unofficial consulate in 1940. By 43, she was one of the jailbait screen ahead of downed aircrew. She only let a couple of things slip, but then I found myself living among the Belgians who covered them while waiting for the next Comet Line run, and learned the lot.
Thought I'd chime in on weapons with bolts that ride a track down such as the SREM, the Russian TKB-011 I believe has a similar system to this. It was an experimental design in the early-mid 60's as a bullpup firearm with a wacky bolt system which can be seen by it's charging handle having to ride up to align with the barrel before pulling it back, no doubt meaning the bolt wasn't a typical straight or turn bolt design to it though ofc it was never taken beyond that phase as it would have been far to complex for any kind of widespread adoption.
12:19 “because you can upgrade your weapons in games these days”…. Immediately gets flashbacks of the cursed m1 garand with a drum mag that still did the clip ping…
I'm tempted to say this was the inspiration for the Sommer & Ockenfuss Griffrepetierer. "Czech My Guns" did a review on one and this seems very similar...
The pain on jons face while operating the weapon " with some welly " and when he dry fires it his expression can only be described as aghast. Its matched only by that pride when he says phrases like "the only one in the world" Just as a consummate proffessional in his field should. Jonathan is exactly what i want a keeper pf firearms and artillery should be. I can also see him doimg a cameo in a red dwarf episode, incidentally. Not sure why. Somethig about his humour.
they had massive stockpiles of .303 ammo and guns after WW1, and they were broke, so using what was left over made economic sense, when WWII started everyone was already trained with an Enfield the production lines were already running and there was no money or time to design and build the factories to make a new rifle and the .303 being a heavy rimmed round doesn't work as well in magazine fed semi/automatic weapons, though the BREN is an exception as mentioned in the Video it's only recently that Semi automatics have become as accurate as bolt action rifles and Accuracy International makes a really, really good bolt action Sniper Rifle, third longest confirmed kill in the world at 2,475 metres with an Accuracy International L115A3 long-range rifle this is why the British army stuck to Bolt action sniper rifles so long
@@bigsteppamoe4173 it was effective enough at the time, but by 1945 it was obvious that higher calibre rounds such as .303 were unnecessary, and there were more effective, lower calibre types in development. I wouldn’t say that .303 was a “bum round” it was still in use for the standard British sniper rifle (the No. 4 T) until the late ‘60’s / early ‘70’s with the adoption of the 7.62 L42. Taliban snipers were using the “Bum round” .303 in the 2010’s to great effect.
The Garand itself is fairly like that, isn't it? Its bolt does drop down in the receiver and its track does go down at an angle. Much slighter than the SREM of course.
Sommer & Ockenfuss griffrepetierer. I have one, and it is very accurate. You can reload it pretty fast if you train with it for a while, but it is nothing I would ever consider for an infantry-rifle.
Snipers - AFAIK - rarely rip the bolt backwards and forwards "at a fair old rate". And that looks to me almost as bad as a bolt action for destroying your sight picture, which wasn't a huge problem on the SMLE if I remember my cadet days.
Was a good weapon in the Sniper Elite 5 game at least!! Interesting to know how they try to replicate actual performance into a computer game equivalent.
Seems the propensity for poor triggers in bull pups would counter any potential sight picture advantage. It also seems the recoil of that cartridge would disrupt the sight picture more than either a pump or bolt action. Really interesting rifle though. The dead ends can be more fun than the successes.
I remember when we were issued with early SA80s in 1990 and went through NITAT (with .22 adaptors fitted). The rifle used to feed unfired .22LR rounds *into* the handgrip, behind the trigger - thankfully one was never crushed enough to go off...
MAS-38 has a bolt at an angle, but it follows a straight line rather than going round a bend, it's just that the straight line isn't in line with the barrel. Same logic to it as well - wanting the bolt to cycle back into the buttstock without wanting to raise the sights too high above the barrel.
I splendid free extra to the book. I've got mine. I think it sold out(?). Pretend to buy it on Amazon and help get a second edition printed. Ian McCollum reprinted 'Chassepot to FAMAS' when it was being offered for more than the cover price.
@@crystalbiro6158 Kraut space magic? No, it’s old, 1800’s old. There is a huge heavy disk in the stock that winds a clock spring 270deg to absorb the recoil and feed the next round
The experimental Winchester G30M and related prototypes have a bolt that drops into the wrist of the stock. Also the Benelli MR-1 rifle and M4 Super 90 shotgun have a bolt extension that rides down into the stock to engage the recoil spring. Does that count?
Seems like with a straightline stock and a release lever under the triggerguard, you'd have the makings of a good system. Of course, the UK has access to accurized semiauto rifles these days.
You can get an AR variant in pump action. I'm watching a channel where a cattle station manager has to do a lot of invasive camel,culling and the state won't allow semi automatics. Australian farmer guy has them in .223 and .300- I Would like one with a semi pistol grip.
I love that the British came up with a needlessly complicated design (which from the outset was a terrible idea) but ultimately thought "sod it this is too complicated" and just kept using the same rifle they already had for another 40 years
I'd never heard of this gun but apart from .22 Rimfire pump action centre fire rifles are rather rare.The Remington pump rifle springs to mind which was made in .30 06 and possibly other calibres too.I believe that it's held that pump action centre fire rifles tend to shake loose and are less accurate than bolt action.
Because if there's one thing snipers want; it's a rifle with moveable grip that's also part of a loud, clacky action that requires you to move your whole shooting arm to operate (and I'm sure that bullpup trigger is a joy...).
An interesting rifle. I must have missed where/what the magazine is. I figure it must be a 5 round internal box. I don't see any stripper clip guides though. I've always had a soft spot for my .22lr pump that's about 80 years old now. Pump guns in .357 are surprisingly popular at my local gun club too.
@@itsapittie I know one for sure was a Taurus. One might have been a Henry, brass and wood. The other was an Italian name. They also shoot .38's if I remember right. It was a case of one guy brought that shiny one in to shoot and everyone that plinked with it fell in love and bought their own. It's a great part of being in a club.
I was "His majesties republic of the pfiedon of the democratic commonwealth of the oligarchy of the landlocked free naval air and land armed matial services 2nd assistan to the prime curator of the museum of the director of military commodities procurement and arms of the great Elbonia" for the last 69 years. I inherited the title from my late step father and 2nd uncle at the age 13. It was an honor to service my fellow citizen subject royalty. Thank you. Long viva la Resistencia de Giorno de ELBONIA her great
Very interesting If I were you I would look to Belgium, Yugoslavia maybe even Sweden and cheek out all small and large weapons manufacturers for similar Tooling Concept Or specifically breach pressure requirements Just an idea brother Thank you for the great info and videos Have a good one Just saying
Clever idea! Only ever seen something similar but that was on an LMG where the pistol grip racked the first round. As for the cheek touching that metal cover, a rubber cover or leather glued over it would solve that, even the game model you showed has it covered with a wide canvas cover that would work too.
Gotta be honest. I'm an American (casual) Gamer and I love the Sniper Elite games. Though my mains are the Enfield rifle and the Webley revolver, or the High Standard IS pistol.
"Keeper of Firearms and Artillery" has got to be one of the most kickass job titles out there.
specialy when used as a pickupline ;)
@@Gn8Lif3 “I know a lot about cannons…”
Try Toby Capwell, World Champion Jouster, then!
Seriously though. What an honor. Many Americans are no doubt envious. Lol
@@davidlindsey6111 Not me, he's the American Curator of Armour at London's Wallace Collection, our ships are on an interception course as he's tearing the iconic Agincourt apart from a weaponry approach, I'm doing the same from a geopolitical angle on the edge of the Warburg Institute. When the Royal Armouries moved to Leeds, they commissioned a friend of the family (my late wife's, Welsh, you know...), Sir Karl Jenkins, to compose a work for them, The Armed Man. Where the idea came from is anybody's guess, it's possible Cousin Lesley, who ran his local, The Welcome to Gower, may have told him what we were up to, which was eventually gonged with the 2012 Nobel Peace Prize: the work culminated in catching the Roman Catholic seat of the Eucharist as it fell, which led me straight back to a new discovery in the roots of the Renaissance. The entire thing had been set up by a French Cardinal, attempting to stop the Hundred Years War, which had riven the Church, they'd ended up with 3 contending Popes! Allied with the Holy Roman Emperor who needed a unified Christendom to fight off the Ottomans, who clearly had eyes on the Danube lands - this is the setting of Vlad the Impaler, in passing - the French were irritants, and were taken down by Henry V at Agincourt. Now, Henry was closely allied with Burgundy, an HRE fiefdom, in the wool trade, so it doesn't take much to put two and two together, particularly with my experience at the same level in the modern European Council. Heck, one of my ancestors was the Sieur de Gosse de Gorre, head of a band of routiers, freelancer ronin of exactly the kind described in the work. Karl's is simply one of the most recent takes on a French folksong from the same area, first used as folk mass by Guillaume Dufay - it's been rearranged something like 80 times in the 600 years since.
Coming into it tracing the religious side at the behest of the Belgian Supreme Court, I spotted this Cardinal had done exactly the same as we'd do now. He presented an argued case, where we'd use academic logic now, he used academic theology then. A Quadrivium case, where two of his team at the Concilium, Dufay and van Eyck, prepared studies of the text from which most Chrismas readings are drawn, Jan van Ruusbroec's Spiritual Tabernacle, the first consolidation of Eucharistic Theology. This was used to invert tgebsecular power structure, the Popes were now to be top dog.
That sounds like a really great way to make what should be a relatively simple weapons system, needlessly complex.
Yeah it seems like a sharpshooter doesn't need the extra savings on weapon length
seems like a job for a german engineer
It's Czech design in one rifle
@@mixmastermind Well the bullpupness of this rifle really didn't hurt it, and if you can decrease length it's always a benefit
While odd, it is actually not that complex for what it is.
You can tell he is a museum curator. He winced harder dry firing the rare artifact than many people do with live ammunition in a large caliber.
I would too knowing that a dryfire can ruin my gun
@@bestrussianjaxfromrussia181 The only one in existence I might add...
First of all, I'd like to express my thanks to Jonathan and Royal Armouries as well for even taking time to mention this and put it in the spotlight. I myself being Czech of origin, this means quite a lot to me, especially since I'm doing a little bit of a research of Czech firearms during WWI & II and pre-WWI & II. If you would like I could try to dig up these "unsung heroes" names from the archive of 'Zbrojovka Brno' (yes that "ZB" which would eventually collaborated into Bren gun), since I think that this rifle (being such an oddball) deserves this... ;)
Czechs design and make great firearms.
Now that's a title of a vid you can't miss.
I actually thought I read it wrong, I was like "cool, a pump action sniper?!" then he kept going on about it being bullpup and I was like "did I misread bullpup as pump action?!" had to exit full screen to check XD
I only learned about this Rifle after Sniper Elite 5 came out. Such an odd concept I would’ve thought it stopped at the Drawing Desk
Even though its fairly complicated and awkward I find it's design with the pump-action oddly satisfying and pretty.
Same here. This gun would fit perfectly into the Star wars universe in my opinion. Because the vehicles and weapons (the older ones, not the sequel ones) are this mix of different things, with the main priority is that it can be cheaply model for the shots. This is why they look so iconic, chaotic and yet harmonic at the same time with e.g.TIE fighter and a Mon Calamari cruiser look so different and yet they fit perfectly into each other
Every innovation, however failed, improves the field.
The only one in the world! What a privilege to preserve this piece of history and show it off to the world - truly incredible
That is pretty much a nightmare. My grandfather had a Savage 99 which has a rear locking bolt that sort of drops down and back. It also has a sliding safety just behind the trigger. He put a round through the bedroom wall showing me how the safety worked. Very loud! Cheers, Dan.
I gained my Marksman badge on the old .303 in the CCF in the late '50's I could use the bolt without losing my aim too much, though whether that would be good enough for a sniper I don't know, it was good enough for a double tap once I joined up. My dad was posted as the Chief Clerk of the Small Arms School in Kent as a colour SGT in the Lancashire Fusiliers in the early '60's, he took us four boys into work quite often on a Saturday morning and we saw many fantastic small arms being tested. The ranges were just behind our Quarters in Dymchurch Cottages and we boys often squirmed up the sandunes to watch the action. Great times. Jonathan are your books available on Kindle?
Too picture heavy for kindle. They're available as hardback collector's books from Headstamp Publishing.
@@shockwavecity ah good point rewtuser, still, maybe in the future.
Sounds like an interesting childhood.
@@Chiller01 I was an Army brat, went to an Army school and then joined up myself Chiller, I didn't know much else really.
Unfortunately, Ian McCollum, owner of headstamp publishing and forgotten weapons, has said there will never be ebooks of headstamp titles due to piracy. Admittedly he has sound reasoning, but as someone with a large ebook collection and a small physical collection, id love to have one in ebook form as well.
Fabulous, I'd seen it in your book but to see it from multiple angles is even better. Thank you.
Great that game designers are working with you to make their games more historically accurate and realistic.
Book plug within 30 seconds! Keep up the good content!
I wish the camera showed his whole face when he dry fired it. It looked like it was painful and he was just expecting something to break.
Thank you so much for doing this video! ever since i saw the gun in sniper elite 5 i have been looking for details on this gun but couldnt find much, you're video is nicely detailed and seeing the gun itself was awesome!
Jonathan is the reason Rebellion put it in the game, as he says.
@@wessexdruid7598 I know I saw his video on sniper elite 5 I added this comment because I couldn't find more details on the srem 1 anywhere and then this video came out
I was aware of this rifle before SE5, but I love that it was included and I hope that people’s interests are peaked enough to discover your excellent video and seemingly endless repository of firearms history knowledge.
*piqued
Awesome to see a deep dive on this rifle!
Unusual for sure.
Ed Browning had a semi-auto with the bolt recoiling back and down: The G30. It has a related development to the M-1 Carbine. I think I got this info from Hatcher's Book of the Garand or maybe Hatcher's Notebook.
The G30 action was scaled down for the M-1 Carbine so the relationship is quite close.
@Kelly Harbeson I won't ask... because I have two also! Like the bible, but with more guns.
Thanks to this channel and many others I have the most concerning wishlist in the country.
This video was crazy! I'm into forgotten weapons, and this is a channel I would watch too. Weird one of a kind gun. Too cool.
A good few of Ians videos are filmed at The Royal Armouries. Wonderful collection.
Very odd to hear the words "pump-action" and "sniper rifle" in the same sentence, but I have to admit, the pump-action's visually subtle; was wondering where the hell it was on it. Plus, I love weird weapon designs like this are, so it's definitely unique.
My family are long distance shooters, the right handers converted to left hand actions with bipod’s and the lefties to right hand actions. You can keep possession of the rifle and trigger better while you use what would be your front stock hand to reload and cycle the action. With a bipod you don’t need a front hand to hold the rifle it is now used to cycle the action. The back hand keeps the sights/scope on target and cycles the trigger.
Perhaps the designer was the same guy who designed the Vz.54 sniper rifle. He lived in the UK during the war. The front end at least look similar.
I would love to hear more your involvement with the Sniper Elite franchise please!
05:00 By the time you shoot you have already lost the aiming point. Not to mention the extra movement of the hand and arm to pull back the grip and open the bolt. Push the grip again to feed the new cartridge. Retake the position and aiming again. The rifle is smaller, which leads to probably less weight and therefore greater recoil.
Now, let's go to a poor single scope ring, which has to keep a telescope as heavy as No. 32 at zero after firing a 7.92x57 cartridge.
Seriously, some designers were a little lost at the time.
Don't always blame the designers. Usually it's the guys writing the requirements who are incompetent and silly or just tailoring the requirements to the grease given to them by a particular manufacturer. Some silly specific feature is usually just the hook to eliminate the competition in tenders.
@@rosomak8244 Well said. This reminds me that an elephant is a mouse built to government specifications
Its such a curious choice given how effective the No 4T was as a sharpshooters or snipers rifle. The bolt throw on the Enfield being so easy to use you can work it with just your fingers.
It is a very good book. Love to read it alot.
Okay! ... Drumms!!!! It's a BULLPUMP-Action sniper rifle! Tadam-tssss
I was typing a comment about the vectors bolt when you mentioned it
A good comparison for the dropping bolt in a full power rifle would be the earlier Ed Browning self-loading rifle that competed with the Pederson and Garand rifles for the US Trials, there's a reason that Winchester changed the Bolt design of the G30 as they continued development, Forgotten Weapons has an entire series on the development of the G30 family for anyone interested. Here's the link, second video on the Winchester guns shows the problems with a bolt that drops into the stock: th-cam.com/video/ioi7D6ce_34/w-d-xo.html
The fitelite scr rifle uses a downward bolt as it's an AR adapted to a traditional rifle stock.
Probably intended more as a squad marksmen weapon, where quick follow up shots could be taken, or multiple targets. This rifle looks a neat, handy design.
The marksman rifle emerged much later, when intermediate cartridges replaced full-power ones for ordinary service rifles.
Interesting as always
My hunting rifle when I was younger was a Remington model 760 pump action. I really liked the rifle. At the time I thought a pump action rifle was just the coolest.
One of my UK shooting baddies had one until they were banned here. They were seen by some as the "gamer gun" for Running Deer Doubles at Bisley. I guess you had to fire two shots rapid at the moving (running deer) target and semiautos were not allowed for that competition.
What caliber? I had a Remington 700 chambered in .270 for my first deer rifle (Mulies in the Rockies). I had a grizzled old uncle that was an excellent tracker/hunter and he carried a pump action rifle but I forget the type.
@@Chiller01 It was .35 Rem.
Great video. Thank you for willing this into Sniper Elite. Now you've gotta make someone put an EM-2 in a game. MAKE THEM!
It already is, it was in Warzone for a bit lol
@@sneakerfisch7684 cool I'll take a look.
EDIT dude I just searched 'warzone em2' and... oh god. I hate you for making me see that. 😭
I finished sniper elite not long ago and was hoping you would do a video on this! Not one I'm familiar with.
He does a Saturday video on game spot about weapons in games if you didn’t know pal
@Reidy Cruise I am but thanks for spreading the good word of Jonathan regardless :D
My grandfather was WSI special forces/commando NCO and code breaker all through the war, serving in various units and regiments like the LRDG, SBS, SASB and 1stSSB. Running lots of recon, intelligence gathering sorties and capture/kill missions. He said they gave him and the blokes all kinds of experimental stuff to try, but in the end, most either didn't work or was too unreliable... (He hated the STEN and all variants for eg, if it didnt jam, it was just as dangerous to the owner as it was the enemy). Said if you had to be quiet, you used your dagger. The best British rifle he used was actually the P14, especially for sharpshooting. He tried to hold onto that for as long as he could, before they eventually took it off him and handed him a No4 claiming it was better (he didnt think so). Eventually late war, they were using a lot of American stuff (Which they traded booze and ciggies for). The regular UK Army would often "requision" their stuff prior to D-Day, so often had to go find new stuff or trade for it. Post D-Day tbey were dar better kitted out. The Bren was his all time favourite weapon of the war, it never let him down. They got the job done with what little they had. Special Operations often didnt have the best stuff, despite popular opinion.
SOE had half of Baker Street reworking everything anyway, as it had to pass German inspection in the street. Mum's aunt ran the La Libre Belgique, and she was picked up by MI9 aged 13, as their home became the unofficial consulate in 1940. By 43, she was one of the jailbait screen ahead of downed aircrew. She only let a couple of things slip, but then I found myself living among the Belgians who covered them while waiting for the next Comet Line run, and learned the lot.
Thought I'd chime in on weapons with bolts that ride a track down such as the SREM, the Russian TKB-011 I believe has a similar system to this. It was an experimental design in the early-mid 60's as a bullpup firearm with a wacky bolt system which can be seen by it's charging handle having to ride up to align with the barrel before pulling it back, no doubt meaning the bolt wasn't a typical straight or turn bolt design to it though ofc it was never taken beyond that phase as it would have been far to complex for any kind of widespread adoption.
12:19 “because you can upgrade your weapons in games these days”…. Immediately gets flashbacks of the cursed m1 garand with a drum mag that still did the clip ping…
That is a fascinating design. I can definitely see why it was canned
I'm tempted to say this was the inspiration for the Sommer & Ockenfuss Griffrepetierer. "Czech My Guns" did a review on one and this seems very similar...
Wish I had of brought one of those in the late 90s/early 2000s when I had the chance. They're Hobby Horse Poo rare now.
@@SnoopReddogg I own one. I got it for the equivalent of about 500€. And it was so worth it!
sniper elite is a fun game one of the few I play anymore.
The pain on jons face while operating the weapon " with some welly " and when he dry fires it his expression can only be described as aghast.
Its matched only by that pride when he says phrases like "the only one in the world"
Just as a consummate proffessional in his field should.
Jonathan is exactly what i want a keeper pf firearms and artillery should be.
I can also see him doimg a cameo in a red dwarf episode, incidentally. Not sure why. Somethig about his humour.
The idea of keeping the aim is sound, but it’s interesting that the British Armed Forces have kept bolt action rifles from WW1 to the present day.
they had massive stockpiles of .303 ammo and guns after WW1, and they were broke, so using what was left over made economic sense,
when WWII started everyone was already trained with an Enfield the production lines were already running and there was no money or time to design and build the factories to make a new rifle and the .303 being a heavy rimmed round doesn't work as well in magazine fed semi/automatic weapons, though the BREN is an exception
as mentioned in the Video it's only recently that Semi automatics have become as accurate as bolt action rifles and Accuracy International makes a really, really good bolt action Sniper Rifle, third longest confirmed kill in the world at 2,475 metres with an Accuracy International L115A3 long-range rifle
this is why the British army stuck to Bolt action sniper rifles so long
@@andreww2098 and yet the Soviets and the Germans (two states that placed great importance on sniping) both used semi-auto sniper rifles in WWII…
@@keithorbell8946 yeah but they aren’t chambered in the bum ass round that is .303 british
@@bigsteppamoe4173 it was effective enough at the time, but by 1945 it was obvious that higher calibre rounds such as .303 were unnecessary, and there were more effective, lower calibre types in development. I wouldn’t say that .303 was a “bum round” it was still in use for the standard British sniper rifle (the No. 4 T) until the late ‘60’s / early ‘70’s with the adoption of the 7.62 L42. Taliban snipers were using the “Bum round” .303 in the 2010’s to great effect.
From the 1888 Lee Metford onwards.
The Garand itself is fairly like that, isn't it? Its bolt does drop down in the receiver and its track does go down at an angle. Much slighter than the SREM of course.
Never got that! Thats of course one of the reasons that the garand can have a relativley short reciver!
7:51 I think the TKB-011 and TKB-22M also have a similar bolt concept.
Very cool rifle 👍
Somner & Ockenfuss grieffrepieter was a german driven Hunt Gun made quite recently with the same type of reloading
Czech My guns has a video about it
Sommer & Ockenfuss griffrepetierer. I have one, and it is very accurate. You can reload it pretty fast if you train with it for a while, but it is nothing I would ever consider for an infantry-rifle.
Snipers - AFAIK - rarely rip the bolt backwards and forwards "at a fair old rate". And that looks to me almost as bad as a bolt action for destroying your sight picture, which wasn't a huge problem on the SMLE if I remember my cadet days.
Given what we know about percision shooting today,,,, I would be interested in seeing the scopes of the world wars and how they functioned...
Can you please explain how to reload this weapon ? Where are the bullets stored within the gun ?
I have the unshakable feeling that he got some serious news like the second before they started recording
Limies have a strange fascination with bullpup rifles. It's very strange the progression of this line up to the SA-80 boondoggle.
If the bolt detach was in the handguard that might have been better, but pumping the trigger looks nuts.
Was a good weapon in the Sniper Elite 5 game at least!! Interesting to know how they try to replicate actual performance into a computer game equivalent.
Its funny seeing a real life rifle seeing more action in a videogame.
Seems the propensity for poor triggers in bull pups would counter any potential sight picture advantage. It also seems the recoil of that cartridge would disrupt the sight picture more than either a pump or bolt action. Really interesting rifle though. The dead ends can be more fun than the successes.
I remember when we were issued with early SA80s in 1990 and went through NITAT (with .22 adaptors fitted). The rifle used to feed unfired .22LR rounds *into* the handgrip, behind the trigger - thankfully one was never crushed enough to go off...
MAS-38 has a bolt at an angle, but it follows a straight line rather than going round a bend, it's just that the straight line isn't in line with the barrel. Same logic to it as well - wanting the bolt to cycle back into the buttstock without wanting to raise the sights too high above the barrel.
Beautiful wish some one would improve the design and put out a nice bush rifle
I splendid free extra to the book. I've got mine. I think it sold out(?). Pretend to buy it on Amazon and help get a second edition printed. Ian McCollum reprinted 'Chassepot to FAMAS' when it was being offered for more than the cover price.
Where's the magazine?
The Pistol grip cocking comes from the BESA surely? (although the action is of course different)
Where is the magazine or how do you load the weapon???
It’s not a dropping bolt but I vaguely remember a rotating system in the stock to absorb recoil and feed rounds?
Mad looking clockwork thing.
That must be the German caseless gun prototype. I can't remember it's name.
@@crystalbiro6158
Kraut space magic?
No, it’s old, 1800’s old.
There is a huge heavy disk in the stock that winds a clock spring 270deg to absorb the recoil and feed the next round
Jonathan's videos always make me want to play games like RD2, or some such shooter like that. I have laundry to do, dammit. 🤣🤣🤣
I felt like I was stroking out for a second there reading that title
Everything about this firearm in the title makes me almost physically ill.
"British Pump-Action Bullpup Sniper"
The experimental Winchester G30M and related prototypes have a bolt that drops into the wrist of the stock. Also the Benelli MR-1 rifle and M4 Super 90 shotgun have a bolt extension that rides down into the stock to engage the recoil spring. Does that count?
Seems like with a straightline stock and a release lever under the triggerguard, you'd have the makings of a good system. Of course, the UK has access to accurized semiauto rifles these days.
You can get an AR variant in pump action. I'm watching a channel where a cattle station manager has to do a lot of invasive camel,culling and the state won't allow semi automatics. Australian farmer guy has them in .223 and .300- I Would like one with a semi pistol grip.
I would have been interested to be shown where the magazine is, what it's capacity is, and how it's reloaded.
What kind of magazine did it take, and where? It's not obvious from the video.
Great presentation! nice weapon, but how do you charge it? magazine, clip, single load, precharge ammo in the stock?
In the video, I think you can see a charger guide for Mauser style stripper clips
Pistol Pump Sniper sounds like a good band name
Did not look very complicated to me; just unusual. I do however like bullpups because a longer barrel can be used in the same or smaller package.
Ah yes I anticipated this review :D
someone tell me what the 2 rifles bottom left in the screen are with the sling tacks on the bottom..... odd to see in the royal armouries
I love that the British came up with a needlessly complicated design (which from the outset was a terrible idea) but ultimately thought "sod it this is too complicated" and just kept using the same rifle they already had for another 40 years
I'd never heard of this gun but apart from .22 Rimfire pump action centre fire rifles are rather rare.The Remington pump rifle springs to mind which was made in .30 06 and possibly other calibres too.I believe that it's held that pump action centre fire rifles tend to shake loose and are less accurate than bolt action.
Because if there's one thing snipers want; it's a rifle with moveable grip that's also part of a loud, clacky action that requires you to move your whole shooting arm to operate (and I'm sure that bullpup trigger is a joy...).
An interesting rifle. I must have missed where/what the magazine is. I figure it must be a 5 round internal box. I don't see any stripper clip guides though. I've always had a soft spot for my .22lr pump that's about 80 years old now. Pump guns in .357 are surprisingly popular at my local gun club too.
I've seen lever guns in .357 but not pump guns. Do you know who makes them?
@@itsapittie I know one for sure was a Taurus. One might have been a Henry, brass and wood. The other was an Italian name. They also shoot .38's if I remember right. It was a case of one guy brought that shiny one in to shoot and everyone that plinked with it fell in love and bought their own. It's a great part of being in a club.
what a strange design. but very interesting for sure.
Watching this video is a good way of passing the time while downloading the game... 😅
I was "His majesties republic of the pfiedon of the democratic commonwealth of the oligarchy of the landlocked free naval air and land armed matial services 2nd assistan to the prime curator of the museum of the director of military commodities procurement and arms of the great Elbonia" for the last 69 years. I inherited the title from my late step father and 2nd uncle at the age 13. It was an honor to service my fellow citizen subject royalty.
Thank you.
Long viva la Resistencia de Giorno de ELBONIA her great
Is that a Parker Hale T4 target rife at far left of the rack directly behind you ?
i imagine ripping the bolt back in a pump action would be more disruptive than a traditional bolt
You'd imagine wrong
Did I miss any mention of how many rounds the magazine capacity was ?
Very interesting
If I were you I would look to Belgium, Yugoslavia maybe even Sweden and cheek out all small and large weapons manufacturers for similar
Tooling
Concept
Or specifically breach pressure requirements
Just an idea brother
Thank you for the great info and videos
Have a good one
Just saying
I notice the game version wisely has a canvas wrap over the breach cover, was that your doing, Jonathan?
Am I missing something, where is the magazine?
Before sniper elite 5 came out and there was only trailers based on the barrel I thought this was going to be similar to the Lee Enfield lol
How and where do the cartridges go in? I can't belive that you didn't show that.
Clever idea! Only ever seen something similar but that was on an LMG where the pistol grip racked the first round. As for the cheek touching that metal cover, a rubber cover or leather glued over it would solve that, even the game model you showed has it covered with a wide canvas cover that would work too.
I don't think it's an accident that the LMGs you'll see using the system are from Czechoslovakia (and their derivatives, like the Finnish KVKK 62)
"Why did this British pump-action sniper not get adopted?" Because just listen to that sentence out loud.
Really this is a straight pull but operated with with a pump grip.
What the hell is that beast of a weapon on the end of the rack at the bottom to Jonathon's right?
Ah the Srem ! I remember this from Sniper Elite 5
Gotta be honest. I'm an American (casual) Gamer and I love the Sniper Elite games. Though my mains are the Enfield rifle and the Webley revolver, or the High Standard IS pistol.
You're American? My condolences.
Damn, wish you’d have shown how it’s loaded and what capacity magazine it has.