We have been using OA-based treatments in UK for a while. It seems that it is unfamiliar to many in USA. There are several points to understand. OA vapour is lethal - you must wear correct PPE (respirator suitable for organic acids, eye protection and gloves). If you vapourize, the vapourizer must not be allowed to overheat the crystals, otherwise they decompose to Formic Acid instead of sublimating. You must be aware of the limitations of OA if brood is present and understand the rationale in the multiple treatment sequence. Having said all that, it is a very effective treatment, cheap and fast-acting.
It’s been 3 years since this video. Any news on the labeling? As far as I know it’s not been changed yet. I have some Apibioxal that I want to use this year. I’m in my 2nd year of beekeeping and my first hive from last year didn’t survive. My mite count skyrocketed in August when my supers were on and I waited until after harvest to treat.
Hi, Brett, I am alays struck by what a good teacher you are. Your presentations are thorough and clear, even for those without much of a background in the subject matter. Keep up the good work! Stu
Another thought: when mites are phrotic over a long winter they seem to forget to jump on the first larvae that are available I've read. If so, early in the spring like March may be another good time to hit the mites before they start taking off. What do you think?
Nah, not necessary, but, it is a good idea to try to take out extra stuff that creates space, so, if you had a hive top feeder it's a good idea to remove that, other than that though I just blast 'em.
Hey, been looking over your previous videos, I'm still hopefull you will start producing more bee videos soon. I had a Duncan hat in the early 70's, still have a bunch of yoyos. Take care.
Your sound volume is a lot better! I'm not planning using OAV while suppers are on just seems pointless. I'll use it in the fall and early winter and currently treating ever 4 days for 21 days. Thanks for sharing!
Good points you are making; actually sublimation of OA in conjunction with dribbling of aprox 10cc per row increases the impact on the Varroa exponentially because of the short time sublimation followed by long time dribble seem to help the bees keep the varroa at bay. Dan
But you can buy those strips from Bayer (Monsanto, the very company causing the current problem of colony collapse) and use them 24/7 no one blinks an eye?
Hello, Thank you for sharing. Do you know if it makes a difference if one removes the honey supers during treatment and for an extended time, say 15 minutes, afterwards? Is that more acceptable in terms of fear of contaminating honey? I guess I am wondering if the vapour settles and does not move up into supers if they are removed during the treatment? Thoughts? Thank you.
Well, the new regulations are based in science, and the science says the OA vapor just doesn't contaminate it to an appreciable level, so, I wouldn't remove the boxes because of fear of contamination. I would remove the boxes for a better concentration of vapor, but really I would do my best to have the treatment done before those boxes go on and then again after they come off at the end of the season. It's just more effective that way.
Have you heard that the temperature of the oa vapor can cause the treatment to more or less effective. There is a video with bob binnie put on by Manitoba beekeepers association that talks about this subject briefly. The video is called "a night with bib binnie.
I've heard a lot of different things that have an effect on the mite drop, in terms of OA, although I haven't watched the video you're referring to. I'll definitely check it out though.
Great sound!! I read the comments and there was no one whining. LOL There are some beeks that are saying we are being skimpy with our OAV quantities used. I've heard up to 4 g per hive from a commercial beekeeper. Then you hear 1/2 g per hive body. What is your feel on this?
My feeling on that is that it's a pretty ineffective treatment regardless, there's vapor that leaks out of the cracks and gets carried away by the wind, tons of different things that can make it less effective than another treatment type. For that I just use it as a maintenance thing, I rarely rely on OA to knock a high load down. As far as dosage per hive, I just add enough to the tool so it's blowing out thick vapor, blast the hive until it's filled, move on to the next one. I've never considered how much I'm adding to each specific hive.
So ...ran into a new idea for you. And thanks for your videos. I heard someone recently mentioning using oxalyc acid in a towel deployment method in hive. But I'd not heard of that before. I had heard of apivar strips, mite strips, etc including formic acid (I might spell that wrong). But I'd not heard of it in a towel form...maybe a paper towel, or whatever...? Was this something new? Or maybe they could have been new and thought apivar /mite away strips were that and called it the wrong thing. Anyway seems interesting, and thought I'd see what you thought. Your bee videos are fun. I've been surprised by how I never get bored of bee videos. Sometimes even seeing them a second time its great. And its also interesting how different beekeepers can talk about the same thing, and yet still have plenty of different ways to do things and be unique.
Oxalic acid is deployed via a shop towel by a lot of beekeepers. Basically it's a glycerin/OA mixture soaked in a towel, and the towel is applied to the tops of the frames. The reason you don't know too much about it is it's still a back room kinda thing, as there's no "approved" method like this you can read on or products to purchase. Here's a link where Randy Oliver talks about his experience with this method: scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-shop-towel-updates/
No OA in Australia at all , but I have a question , many times I have watch the process , they where a mask , that tells me it's dangerous to inhale , surely the bee breathes while that acid is smoked into the hive , that must have some sort of effect on the bee . ????
Not really. The reason it's harmful to us are the inside of our lungs, soft and moist and penetrable. The bees have spiracles, rather than lungs, and aren't affected like us.
What do you think about oxalic acid 99.6% from Amazon? It is a 2 lb. bottle with a blue cap. Please look it up,it says it’s for beekeepers use not on the bottle. I use it last year didn’t hurt the bees. It costed around 15.00 dollars.
Sounds good to me. As long as it's oa crystals you're fine. I buy wood bleach from tractor supply. This is the brand I've used in the past but I think the one you purchased looks good too: www.amazon.com/Blythewood-Bee-Company-Oxalic-Bleach/dp/B07FRQ9DLK/ref=sr_1_14?dchild=1&keywords=oxalic+acid&qid=1618504792&sr=8-14
Thank You for educating me. I am watching your videos (2) hours a day (some vids twice). I will be successful. I have a problem. 1st year I bought (2) nucs / dead in January. 2nd year (1) nuc/ dead in January. I stacked all of the boxes in a barn w/o a door. 3rd year/ God sent me a massive swarm in May, in Maryland and put them in my boxes. From the bottom --- 2-deeps, 2 supers, 2 mediums, with a hive top feeder. I did not open the hive all year. I did treat Oxalic Acid (3) times in August, a week apart... The God sent bees made it thru winter..... I opened the hive for the first time yesterday. The bees built comb and attached it to the hive top feeder. Really cool looking.. The lid is glued onto the hive top feeder pretty solidly.....The hive top feeder comb was full of brood. The next box down (a medium) had (4) frames of brood. The next box down (medium) had capped honey on 3 frames and several uncapped honey/nectar. The (2) supers and the top deep had uncapped honey as well. The bottom deep was empty and only had (5) frames when I stored it away.... I would like to add that the bees, (from day 1), use a busted corner of a super for an entrance.... Question - How can I get the hive back to a normal set up?, where the brood is in the bottom and the honey goes on top?
That's a fun one, lol. I have been in so many situations like this, and, unfortunately usually you have to cut some brood out. I'd take the medium with brood and place that above a bottom board, shake all of the bees onto that, add a deep with drawn frames above the brooded medium, then cut all of the brood out of the hive top feeder and feed it to the chickens, or just throw it out. Make sure the queen is below the excluder and let the bees figure it out for a couple of weeks. Feed them to instigate buildup in the deep. Sorry this was so late, I hope this was still some help. Let me know if you have any further questions.
We can or cannot treat with OA while supers are on? You're confusing people. Other beeks have said that you can treat with OA while supers are with the new regulation. So which is it?
The regulations have changed but in order for it to be legal to treat with supers on you have to use a labeled product. Right now there isn't a labeled product, so technically it's illegal to treat like that for now.
“As of 2021, honey cannot be certified organic by the USDA. Any USA Certified Organic honey sold in the United States is imported from other countries and certified organic by that country. A US beekeeper can have non-certified organic honey that is raised organically. But it is nearly impossible to produce organic honey. Also, beekeepers are currently unable to make any organic claims.” From a web article.
It is possible to become USDA Certified. As long as you own and are in control of land with a 4 mile radius surrounding the hives, and the apiary stays chemical free for 36 consecutive months and the the proper fees/paperwork have been completed you should succeed.
There's actually a plant called Oxalis, or Wood Sorrel, that has a considerably higher oxalic acid concentration than rhubarb. But yeah, rhubarb, spinach, a bunch of plants have a decent amount of oxalic acid in them.
@@BKBees I've been munching on wood sorrel off and on since I was a small child...just a couple at a time, whenever I run across them growing on our woodland. I love the sweet sourness of the violet wood sorrel and the flowers are especially tasty and pretty in salads.
My plan is to treat every 4 days for 5-6 treatments, cover an entire brood cycle as well as the next. Government needs get on board sooner than later to help out us Beeks.
Totally off topic but... I'm getting my first package of bees this spring. Later this year if the colony is strong, can I make a split from it? And if so how long before winter will I have to do it for them to gather sufficient resources?
Sorry this took a month for me to respond. It seems as if I ignore the comments for like a day I get way behind, so I'm really sorry for the delay. Yes you can split a new package the first year. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but you can certainly do it. I would try to have the split done before the end of June, at the very least before the mid point of July. Shoot for the new split to go into winter as a very heavy single. Treat all of your bees in August and verify a low mite load with a mid August mite wash.
Can or cannot treat with OA while supers are on? You're confusing people. Other beeks have said that treating with supers on is now permissible. So which is it?
How am I confusing people, if the root of your confusion is that other beekeepers are saying something different? Those other beekeepers are wrong. The regulations have changed, allowing us to treat with oa with supers on WITH a labeled product. That product doesn't exist yet. Once it does, then we can. Until then, as I said in the video, using OA with supers on would make you a "pesticide scofflaw", not my words but Rany Oliver's.
We have been using OA-based treatments in UK for a while. It seems that it is unfamiliar to many in USA. There are several points to understand. OA vapour is lethal - you must wear correct PPE (respirator suitable for organic acids, eye protection and gloves). If you vapourize, the vapourizer must not be allowed to overheat the crystals, otherwise they decompose to Formic Acid instead of sublimating. You must be aware of the limitations of OA if brood is present and understand the rationale in the multiple treatment sequence. Having said all that, it is a very effective treatment, cheap and fast-acting.
It’s been 3 years since this video. Any news on the labeling? As far as I know it’s not been changed yet. I have some Apibioxal that I want to use this year. I’m in my 2nd year of beekeeping and my first hive from last year didn’t survive. My mite count skyrocketed in August when my supers were on and I waited until after harvest to treat.
Hi, Brett, I am alays struck by what a good teacher you are. Your presentations are thorough and clear, even for those without much of a background in the subject matter. Keep up the good work! Stu
I appreciate your comments so much, Stu. Either you add something helpful or you're just being nice, and either way I appreciate the heck out of it.
I got my first OA gun and vary excited for this much cheaper and faster
Another thought: when mites are phrotic over a long winter they seem to forget to jump on the first larvae that are available I've read. If so, early in the spring like March may be another good time to hit the mites before they start taking off. What do you think?
Agreed, that's a great time. Literally the second most effective time of the year to use OA, behind early winter.
When I treated last fall I took off pollen patty and syrup feeders and just wondered if this was necessary. Thanks
Nah, not necessary, but, it is a good idea to try to take out extra stuff that creates space, so, if you had a hive top feeder it's a good idea to remove that, other than that though I just blast 'em.
Hey, been looking over your previous videos, I'm still hopefull you will start producing more bee videos soon. I had a Duncan hat in the early 70's, still have a bunch of yoyos. Take care.
Your sound volume is a lot better! I'm not planning using OAV while suppers are on just seems pointless. I'll use it in the fall and early winter and currently treating ever 4 days for 21 days. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks! Yeah we have the same outlook on this, I don't plan on blasting OA with supers on either.
Good points you are making; actually sublimation of OA in conjunction with dribbling of aprox 10cc per row increases the impact on the Varroa exponentially because of the short time sublimation followed by long time dribble seem to help the bees keep the varroa at bay.
Dan
But you can buy those strips from Bayer (Monsanto, the very company causing the current problem of colony collapse) and use them 24/7 no one blinks an eye?
What is exactly the current problem of colony collapse and how is Monsanto contributing to it?
Hello,
Thank you for sharing. Do you know if it makes a difference if one removes the honey supers during treatment and for an extended time, say 15 minutes, afterwards? Is that more acceptable in terms of fear of contaminating honey?
I guess I am wondering if the vapour settles and does not move up into supers if they are removed during the treatment? Thoughts?
Thank you.
Well, the new regulations are based in science, and the science says the OA vapor just doesn't contaminate it to an appreciable level, so, I wouldn't remove the boxes because of fear of contamination. I would remove the boxes for a better concentration of vapor, but really I would do my best to have the treatment done before those boxes go on and then again after they come off at the end of the season. It's just more effective that way.
@@BKBees thank you. All makes sense
Have you heard that the temperature of the oa vapor can cause the treatment to more or less effective. There is a video with bob binnie put on by Manitoba beekeepers association that talks about this subject briefly. The video is called "a night with bib binnie.
I've heard a lot of different things that have an effect on the mite drop, in terms of OA, although I haven't watched the video you're referring to. I'll definitely check it out though.
I could hear you 👍👍👍👍👍
Other than O A what is your choice.... Mite away quick strips, formic pro, apivar, or Hopguard? Thanks Brett
Formic, in the form of strips, either maqs or formic pro, I purchase maqs because it's cheaper but they're both very effective.
Great sound!! I read the comments and there was no one whining. LOL
There are some beeks that are saying we are being skimpy with our OAV quantities used. I've heard up to 4 g per hive from a commercial beekeeper. Then you hear 1/2 g per hive body. What is your feel on this?
My feeling on that is that it's a pretty ineffective treatment regardless, there's vapor that leaks out of the cracks and gets carried away by the wind, tons of different things that can make it less effective than another treatment type. For that I just use it as a maintenance thing, I rarely rely on OA to knock a high load down.
As far as dosage per hive, I just add enough to the tool so it's blowing out thick vapor, blast the hive until it's filled, move on to the next one. I've never considered how much I'm adding to each specific hive.
So ...ran into a new idea for you. And thanks for your videos.
I heard someone recently mentioning using oxalyc acid in a towel deployment method in hive.
But I'd not heard of that before. I had heard of apivar strips, mite strips, etc including formic acid (I might spell that wrong). But I'd not heard of it in a towel form...maybe a paper towel, or whatever...?
Was this something new? Or maybe they could have been new and thought apivar /mite away strips were that and called it the wrong thing.
Anyway seems interesting, and thought I'd see what you thought.
Your bee videos are fun.
I've been surprised by how I never get bored of bee videos. Sometimes even seeing them a second time its great. And its also interesting how different beekeepers can talk about the same thing, and yet still have plenty of different ways to do things and be unique.
Oxalic acid is deployed via a shop towel by a lot of beekeepers. Basically it's a glycerin/OA mixture soaked in a towel, and the towel is applied to the tops of the frames. The reason you don't know too much about it is it's still a back room kinda thing, as there's no "approved" method like this you can read on or products to purchase.
Here's a link where Randy Oliver talks about his experience with this method:
scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-shop-towel-updates/
Thanks!
No OA in Australia at all , but I have a question , many times I have watch the process , they where a mask , that tells me it's dangerous to inhale , surely the bee breathes while that acid is smoked into the hive , that must have some sort of effect on the bee . ????
Not really. The reason it's harmful to us are the inside of our lungs, soft and moist and penetrable. The bees have spiracles, rather than lungs, and aren't affected like us.
What do you think about oxalic acid 99.6% from Amazon? It is a 2 lb. bottle with a blue cap. Please look it up,it says it’s for beekeepers use not on the bottle. I use it last year didn’t hurt the bees. It costed around 15.00 dollars.
Sounds good to me. As long as it's oa crystals you're fine. I buy wood bleach from tractor supply.
This is the brand I've used in the past but I think the one you purchased looks good too:
www.amazon.com/Blythewood-Bee-Company-Oxalic-Bleach/dp/B07FRQ9DLK/ref=sr_1_14?dchild=1&keywords=oxalic+acid&qid=1618504792&sr=8-14
@@BKBees thank you
Thank You for educating me. I am watching your videos (2) hours a day (some vids twice). I will be successful.
I have a problem. 1st year I bought (2) nucs / dead in January. 2nd year (1) nuc/ dead in January. I stacked all of the boxes in a barn w/o a door. 3rd year/ God sent me a massive swarm in May, in Maryland and put them in my boxes. From the bottom --- 2-deeps, 2 supers, 2 mediums, with a hive top feeder. I did not open the hive all year. I did treat Oxalic Acid (3) times in August, a week apart... The God sent bees made it thru winter..... I opened the hive for the first time yesterday. The bees built comb and attached it to the hive top feeder. Really cool looking.. The lid is glued onto the hive top feeder pretty solidly.....The hive top feeder comb was full of brood. The next box down (a medium) had (4) frames of brood. The next box down (medium) had capped honey on 3 frames and several uncapped honey/nectar. The (2) supers and the top deep had uncapped honey as well. The bottom deep was empty and only had (5) frames when I stored it away.... I would like to add that the bees, (from day 1), use a busted corner of a super for an entrance.... Question - How can I get the hive back to a normal set up?, where the brood is in the bottom and the honey goes on top?
That's a fun one, lol. I have been in so many situations like this, and, unfortunately usually you have to cut some brood out. I'd take the medium with brood and place that above a bottom board, shake all of the bees onto that, add a deep with drawn frames above the brooded medium, then cut all of the brood out of the hive top feeder and feed it to the chickens, or just throw it out. Make sure the queen is below the excluder and let the bees figure it out for a couple of weeks. Feed them to instigate buildup in the deep.
Sorry this was so late, I hope this was still some help. Let me know if you have any further questions.
Now if we could just get the to legalize the use of off the shelf OA, we'd be set.
Exactly.
Dose it effect the taste of the honey?
No. Oxalic acid is already present naturally in the honey.
We can or cannot treat with OA while supers are on? You're confusing people. Other beeks have said that you can treat with OA while supers are with the new regulation. So which is it?
The regulations have changed but in order for it to be legal to treat with supers on you have to use a labeled product. Right now there isn't a labeled product, so technically it's illegal to treat like that for now.
The surest way of eliminating mites is Thermal!
I've heard some people have success with that. I'd imagine it to cause some other issues, but if it works for you, keep it up.
Well said👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Great vid thanks for the info✅👍👍🏴☠️🏴☠️
Is OA allowed for use in USDA Certified Organic beekeepers?
I honestly didn't know that was a thing. I don't know how you could possibly get certified organic... So, I'm sorry to say, I don't know.
“As of 2021, honey cannot be certified organic by the USDA. Any USA Certified Organic honey sold in the United States is imported from other countries and certified organic by that country. A US beekeeper can have non-certified organic honey that is raised organically. But it is nearly impossible to produce organic honey. Also, beekeepers are currently unable to make any organic claims.” From a web article.
It is possible to become USDA Certified. As long as you own and are in control of land with a 4 mile radius surrounding the hives, and the apiary stays chemical free for 36 consecutive months and the the proper fees/paperwork have been completed you should succeed.
Good sound!
Yeah oxicilic acid comes from plants the highest concentrate is found in rhubarb the same plant that makes rhubarb pie
There's actually a plant called Oxalis, or Wood Sorrel, that has a considerably higher oxalic acid concentration than rhubarb. But yeah, rhubarb, spinach, a bunch of plants have a decent amount of oxalic acid in them.
@@BKBees so yeah why would it be harmful
@@BKBees That is where the name Oxalic Acid comes from. OA is found naturally in many vegetables.
@@BKBees I've been munching on wood sorrel off and on since I was a small child...just a couple at a time, whenever I run across them growing on our woodland. I love the sweet sourness of the violet wood sorrel and the flowers are especially tasty and pretty in salads.
My plan is to treat every 4 days for 5-6 treatments, cover an entire brood cycle as well as the next. Government needs get on board sooner than later to help out us Beeks.
I did this early spring and fall last year with a single OAV shot mid November. Seems to work well.
Totally off topic but... I'm getting my first package of bees this spring. Later this year if the colony is strong, can I make a split from it? And if so how long before winter will I have to do it for them to gather sufficient resources?
Sorry this took a month for me to respond. It seems as if I ignore the comments for like a day I get way behind, so I'm really sorry for the delay.
Yes you can split a new package the first year. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but you can certainly do it. I would try to have the split done before the end of June, at the very least before the mid point of July. Shoot for the new split to go into winter as a very heavy single. Treat all of your bees in August and verify a low mite load with a mid August mite wash.
Can or cannot treat with OA while supers are on? You're confusing people. Other beeks have said that treating with supers on is now permissible. So which is it?
How am I confusing people, if the root of your confusion is that other beekeepers are saying something different? Those other beekeepers are wrong. The regulations have changed, allowing us to treat with oa with supers on WITH a labeled product. That product doesn't exist yet. Once it does, then we can. Until then, as I said in the video, using OA with supers on would make you a "pesticide scofflaw", not my words but Rany Oliver's.