Testing CAM-CRANK Sensor Relationship on a Picoscope
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.พ. 2018
- This test is useful to help identify a jumped timing chain or belt. In this video I cover: How to connect the scope, set up time base and sample rate, inductive vs hall effect differences and saving waveforms to share with others.
Related videos:
Picoscope Basics Part 1
• Picoscope Basics Part ...
Picoscope Basics Part 2
• Picoscope Basics Part ...
For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
Want even more diagnostic training? Whether you are a DIY trying to fix your own car, someone looking to become an auto technician, or a current auto technician that wants to get more into diagnostics, subscribe to ScannerDanner Premium www.scannerdanner.com/join-sc... There is a 14 day free trial.
On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Thanks Danner if it were not for your videos and your e book I would of been stuck at my same job making flat rate at Rush truck centers .Now I’m a shop foreman at a oilfield company making great money and being able to give my family the things they need and seeing my daughter so happy with our new life . Your wisdom and teachings did so much for me and I hope you continue to do the same for others.
Also thank yourself for using the internet the right way and finding the right people to learn from
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Thanks so much. I'm trying to get my ASE a6, took the practice exam and I got a 75%, so I'm appreciating this a lot.
One of great teachers i have ever seen, no BS at all.
Last week I received the uActivate Circuit Test and the uTest Advanced Terminal Test Kit from aeswave. Thanks to you SD. Dolores Martenez helped me place my order. She is a very nice person. If you call in to order ask for her she is very helpful and knowledgeable. My goal is to one day become a great diagnostician as you are SD. It's because of your videos I'm making this into a business soon. There's a lot to learn but with a great teacher as youself, it aims me in the right direction. So just want to say Thank You. And yes I'm a premium member of SD and plan on being one for as long as you make videos. GOD BLESS
Sweet! Good choice on the equipment and who you bought it from. AESwave deserves our support.
Hi. You are a professor and teach me beautifully. I do not know your language well. Thank you
Don’t forget to upload your known goods to the Pico database 👍
What's better, cranking waveforms or idle waveforms to submit to libraries?
Hey Paul. Just wanted to thank you for all your videos. You have taught me so much, you dont even know. Many thanks from Norway!
Thanks Paul! always great learning from you!
Always good to see your videos Professor.
SUBSTANTIAL Sir ScannerDanner
Thank you 👍
Sir ScannerDanner
Take care and have a great 👍 👌
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
Nice!! The last 15 seconds made my day. Thanks for sharing Paul.
Very Good ...!
I never forget to thumbs up this channel.
Thank you Paul. Thank you Caleb. Good job.
Great job Paul and Caleb 🔧☺
Seriously u r the best ! Thanks for ur efforts and keep up the good work 😁
hey ScannerDanner thank you so much , for you i have learned so much, even when i do not understand 100% you said in your videos, ( soy peruano, i am peruvian) i will be very happy when understand you totally. you are MY MASTER. i am sorry by english. greetings from peru.
Thanks for putting that crank cam correlation up on the website trying to get better and better with that getting too many engine misfires with this valve timing now
Oh look at scanner Danner the King of France with his fancy Pico Scope! Just Joking, I enjoy these vids. You have made me a better tech. Been watching for years now. I dont have a Pico, but i do have a Vantage Pro and some other weird tools which does what i need it to.
Awesome demonstration regarding hookup of the electrical connections.
That's all an excellent video. The worst part is the pico. So expensive! Beyond the reach of an average experimenter. Anyhow great work.
LearningZone I know it seems that way, but if you get it from a reputable company with excellent support, and you put in the extra time it takes to master it, you will make that money back many, many times over.
Heck, I'd get it for the frustration it will save you on those difficult jobs alone!
LearningZone .
I jeep hesring pico here, pico there to the point where I want to buy a pico instead of a vantage pro. I currently have a cheap hantek 1008c that I haven't used in diagnosis yet. Not familiar but I get the idea of these videos.
My next tool will be a PICO. Thanks again guys.
Well, I know where I'm going for Pico instruction when the day finally arrives that I own one. EXCELLENT tutorial!
Loved the outtake at the end. "Who's your daddy?" to your son! 😂 That was great. 😊
Thanks Smitty!
Dont worry, you can download the automotive version of the pico, go to the root installation directory and delete or rename oem.dll, there are other files that you can move from the standard software but I found that they are not needed. The pico database wont work as that works online but you get the automotive guide that Danner shows here.
I mean to say that you dont need to own the 4k variants of the pico. My myself invested on a 4 channel of the 2k variants. I paid 600 bucks for it and works great. Just get an attenuator for high voltage spikes from injectors and coils but you can always use an amp clamp
God of diagnostics thank you Mr.Paul.
No I'm not but thank you man
Thanks, its yet another helping video. your testing methods are relatively phasing out the old school way of fixing vehicles by throwing parts in the car.
What I find great with Pico is their waveform library (only works with their automotive scopes) but you could upload that trace you captured into it for everybody to use. Saved a couple of head-scratching problems for me. Out-of sync is so hard to detect without a known good waveform. (Or when some idiot switches the two cams' sensors, even though one wire was so taut you could play it as a guitar...)
Enjoying your videos can't be better enrolling soon from Guyana
Good tester. Nice. Video. Good profesor.
Thanks for taking time to do this. A better way to share a file with a friend would be to send it to the free PICO library. Then all of us get to search for and see it, whenever we want it, for free, with no subscription fees. As you know Pico offer the free software to view and magnify those files, and it will be stored for everybody to search for and see, rather than just your personal friend as a one-time favor. You can go back and retrieve it, too, next year when another of the same vehicles comes in. I know that professional techs pay for Identifix, and other companies want to get into the game of selling and restricting access to critical information like this. For those of us who can't afford to pay a subscription fee for occasional access, Pico have done us a favor and we should take advantage of it and contribute to it. I know it takes a little effort to type in the fields, but we all have to remember that those fields will be necessary for those who want to search for and use the info later.
Love what your doing Paul your an inspiration to me and many others!! I did notice you left the coupling on dc voltage on the cranks instead of AC. Don’t know if you noticed. Keep the videos coming!!
I prefer DC because I like to see the bias line (constant DC) riding underneath the sign wave (if it uses one). It really helps when troubleshooting opens or shorts in the signal circuits.
If it's in AC coupled mode, this will block that DC bias
ScannerDanner that’s a fair comment and something I hadn’t thought of!! Thanks for the advice!
Lol.."who's your daddy?" I always enjoy your videos, but even more so when family is helping out!
My Danner. I remember my dad putting blue on bearings when i was a kid. I still have cuts on my hands sometimes, and have learned to be a technician. I have an image to connect to the name Kalib, Best wishes to your family, and those guys on the .outtakes.
This is a follow up to this video th-cam.com/video/sq0HLREinNU/w-d-xo.html (faulty fuel pump on a Hyundai Santa Fe). I had a friend who needed the cam and crank waveforms on this engine, so I decided to show you guys how I do this type of thing as well. If your interested in any of the tools I use, I have two different pages, one on my website www.scannerdanner.com/tools.html and one on Amazon www.amazon.com/shop/scannerdanner
I don't see the $3k pico 4425 on your amazon
Because Amazon doesn't sell it. It is on my tools page of my website and is sold by AESwave. If you use the link on my tools page AES gives me credit for the sale, so it is a win, win for everyone. You pay the same either way.
ScannerDanner.....Good to know!
Bill
Thanks sir very use full video
Great video Paul! Nice to see you having fun with Caleb😊
After all this time Pete has no faith in you?🤣🤣🤣
:-) Pete has faith, he was just giving me a hard time
Awesome thanks
Pico's great, just like Paul!
Just waiting for your book to arrive up here in Canada, then I’ll be signing up.
Thanks man! I look forward to hearing from you in the comments
Scannerdanner maybe I missed it in this video. But when you make a crank cam correlation measurement with a scope and the engine has variable camshaft timing. You have to make sure you unplug the solenoids or else you will see a different timing of the engine. Because of the adjusment of the camshaft timing.
Paul my two channel Pico seems to get harder to figure out the more updates appear. LOL It's an awesome scope . Cheers
I know! They keep changing and improving the software. So it is a good thing but there certainly is a learning curve.
nice job thank you
What a great scope. Your PICO videos are invaluable learning tools. "Who's your daddy". LOL
I wish all picos would upload to the database. I will start uploading to my drive and hopefully share with the world ny good known wave forms. My brother in law owns a dealership so I will start there :)
SO I'm also doing an electrical diagnostic course revolving around the Snap-On Zeus. My teacher showed us this as well. But one other thing he showed us was how we can actually calculate if the timing chain jumped forward or backwards by getting pictures of the cam gear and reluctor wheel and doing the math by counting . I can't find it in my notes however and can't contact my teacher due to COVID, I was wondering if you had a video on this?
hi from Egypt i see you have 4 channels one for the crank signals and one for the cam signals i wonder why four ? i keep learning from you and i remember your words that someday we will understand and apperciate all what your doing for us here because i already do
Thanks this just helped me get the recording fast with Pico. 2 MS was too big raster?
Hey Paul, I hope you don't mind me asking, which program are you using to record the screen? Thanks bud.
I've used many over the years, my favorite right now is Movavi screen recorder (think I spelled that right)
ScannerDanner awesome, great quality. Thanks! I'm looking at mirillis action right now but I'll take a look at that one as well.
I been working on cars at the age of 5 family run business I can tell u guys a word of wisdom you don't need automotive tech school u have the most information like guys like scanner danner u just got to give up free time and watch video s online like Chris fix and oc mecanic much more
I have watched this video a bunch of times..just on the video alone you cover so much and can be used on all types of applications ..love it ..I have one question if you don’t mind ..what model of pico are you using I have priced them already but need to know the model ..one more thing does one pico do both fuel and diesel..
This is the 4425 automotive 4 channel kit. It's been replaced by the 4425a (which I now have) Thank you!
Hi Paul great video and very informative,just one question....I find the crank sensor easy to understand where the missing tooth corresponds to TDC but why does the Hall effect signal off the cam sensor have so many pulses ? I would have thought that to find the position of the camshaft only one pulse(as with the crank sensor)was needed....Many Thanks 👍🏻
Great video! I have a question, when you’re scoping known good cam/crank waveforms like in this car, is it a good idea to disconnect the cam solenoid valves on vehicles equipped with them? I’ve heard people say no need for that and some say it will give you bad waveforms if not disconnected.
I've never done that
ScannerDanner ok good to know, I’ve gathered cam/crank waveforms from several known good without unplugging the solenoids and I was starting to worry about it lol
Danner would you still scope sensors with voltage even though the pcm has no voltage
I wish you would have talked about digital cam to analog crank timing curser points. easy wnen all hall but where is the "in time" checked on the analog to digital ? thanks for your work and sharing
I just want you to ask if you know how to acquire a data base. or maybe a personal list or how to make with Oscilloscope a Synchronized CKP+CMP signal.
Hello, is it necessary to disconnect the VVT, variable valve timing, prior to checking..
Hay paul i got a 89 ford 302 in no spark no in jecter pulse that turned out to be the moduel and fuel pump relay now it runs but it runs ruff and stalls intermittently at idel and is very rich smell i cheked the fuel rail seliniod its not leaking but if i unplug the vac line it seems to not stall but still runs ruff what else could it be i cheked the egr if you lift the diafram it stumbels like it should just wondering what you think
Mr danner ..what is ckp low and ckp high...also how to know if its a hall effect ..just trying to learn...thanks in advance
Paul, is this the car where your aquired type signal was wierd, and we talked about how the ground location was why?
NVM would help if i watched the video first, you covered it in the first few minutes ....
haha no problem brother
Amazing video!
My honda 1000 motorcycle engine got rebuild 4 times and the exhaust valve still hitting the piston.
Compression is 157psi instead of 150psi
Can I use such tool on a motorcycle engine to fix the timing once and for all???
Thank you
absolutely
Great video. Where would one find a schematic for a 2006 jeep wrangler rubicon 4.0l?
I have a thread on my forum (it's free to join) on where to get wiring diagrams. It' one of the stickys on the post your repair questions here thread
Thank you sir! I am heading that way!
I've seen stickers on cars "Who's your daddy!" Lol
hi dear friend I'm thinking to buy pico scope and my question it's coming with the wiring diagram for you can toasted or pinot the wiri or not please let me know
Good vídeo cam crack sensor test scanner sd
it can be recorded. signal of steering wheel and cam signal. and then simulate ?
Paul, I am new to sending pico captures to web. Is this method your showing the standard and approved way of people wanting to see cam/crank relationship waveforms off sites like picoauto? Or there is no "standard" way people want to see these waveforms? Thank you sir..... Murle
when you share a waveform, you want to include both detail and repetition and as much information as possible (year, make, model, engine, VIN number of the engine, known good, known bad etc.
@@ScannerDanner Thank you!
I've got a 99 chevy 1500 with the 5.3 I've been having surging problems and it comes up as a maf code. I've changed the maf twice and have the same problem under acceleration and was wondering if you would have any idea what that could be. I've had the problem for almost two months since I bought the truck. I was told it could possibly be the small locking clip on the connector or it could be a ground how would I be able to test for a ground problem. Thanks in advance.
Trevor Bailey check the intake gaskets. Often on those when you have a vacuum leak large enough it will set a maf sensor performance code. Itd be helpful to know what the code is exactly. And if you have access to a scan tool see what the calculated vs measured airflow is. Thats basically what your MAP and MAF sensor read, and if there is a difference between the two at idle. Also you can check the IAC counts at idle and see if it is at or near zero, that is another sign of a vacuum leak.
Could you have use the verus to do that kind demonstration as well?
yes but the pico allows for better zooming capabilities on frozen waveforms, which was important to my friend
How to know the good signals from the one got problem? Any library or software?
Facebook automotive groups, iATN, picoauto.com
Can someone explain why the inductive sensor is showing up correctly even though the Chanel is set to DC? Another great video Mr. Danner.
A labscope set to DC couple will show both AC and DC signals. If you AC couple a scope it will block all DC and only show AC.
Mine was DC coupled.
ScannerDanner well like always, learned something new! Thanks again!
Hey I don’t know if you remember me
With my 91 Pontiac Firebird no crank vats problem you where trying to help me with
Last night I was trying to figure it out and what I found out was that I had no power to the crank fuse totally dead that got me thinking why??? So after some research and purchasing a owners manual I found that there r some fusable links but in the progress of locating them I found a connector at the firewall and chased the PPL wire fuse 3 amp
And red and orange wires that go there I opened the cover and it was alll coroded and partly burned wires lol is that why they can burn of corrosion’s??? Plus when I try to charge up batt it sparks on the Negative terminal still didn’t clean the mess up kinda stupid spot to get to you think it will fix my problem???
Is that snow on the windshield?
Yes it was
Would you recommend a two channel or four channel Pico??
4, hands down
Hi dan. Question, how do you know before u start, what kind of crank sensor do you have?
the wiring diagram shows how many wires the sensor has
Lol i guess i should have mentioned that to
By looking at a wiring diagram😉, most of the time hall-effect sensors have 3 wires.
But be carefull there are 2 wire hall effect sensors😁
@DiagnoseDan I would make one correction in your statement. The digital two wire sensors are technically not "hall effects" :-)
Just picking on your term as I've used it myself and may even have it written as such in my book :-(
Just hook up your scope and look at the pattern. Some vrs sensors have more than 2 wires.
Why are you using DC setting in pico for a VR crank sensor? should the setting not be AC?
DC Couple allows both AC and DC signals
AC couple blocks all DC and only shows AC.
VR sensors have a DC bias that I like to look at along with the AC signal
How can we test an injector has 3 wires with oscilloscope
Thank you for all your videos! I have a question what is a Crank High and Crank low, I could not find much on internet
"high" is always the signal wire and "low" is typically the ground of a sensor
thanks teacher. could you do a video on job billing dealing with customers and on diag issues.and how you handle customers. no personal info. just trying to serve my customers better.but still need to get payed and be fair to my workers and my shop. thanks
I talk about this in many of my case studies. Just keep watching my friend. Thank you!
thanks
Why there ist crank high and crank low ? Thank is a bit confusing to mee...do I have to relearn how an inductive crankshaft sensor work's 🤔
Hi Paul, I just got my ass kicked by a 2000 Camaro 3.8 V6. Just wondering if you would have done what I did. Came in on limp mode. Can’t remember the code number but it said no crank 18(reference)signal. I checked crank signals 18 and 3 and cam signal by piercing at the icm. All good. The 18 signal to ecm however was missing. Seemed simple, needs the icm. Replaced icm and same problem. Rechecked and found signal 18 to ecm ok at icm. Ok so bad computer too. Replaced ecm. Same problem. Long story short, there was an internal brake in three of the wires close to icm. One 18 signal, one ecm to icm signal, and one 5 volt bypass. The way I finally figured this out was by using the t pin instead of piercing. The reason I didn’t see the signal the first time was because I pierced after the break. And the second time I pierced before the break, thus replacing ecm.
Wow man! Great job in sticking with it and finding the root cause. This is where pull up and pull down circuitry is key and the engineers don't give it to us.
Who’s your daddy? I laughed I need me a pico
haha
Thanks for posting all these detailed pico videos. Extremely interesting! Can't justify the price, but does justify me buying a hantek 1008c for my amateur use. Thought about the pico 2204 but they swear on their website it is unsuited for automotive use. True? Thanks in advance for any help you can offer a beginner in the world of scopes!
I'm sure it is true. There are many pico models that are unsuited for automotive use as well. Contact Carlos@aeswave.com and he can answer those questions for you. Of course he will try to sell you a pico but he will also answer your scope questions.
Who's ya daddy?? Almost as funny as the ole classic reach around!!
Well, there's ya daddy right there, LADY!!!
I just made up my own saying, RIGHT ON THE SPOT!!
haha nice
Your sons name would be pockets where I’m from! Ahhaha but great video!
can you do a A-Z scope setup and when do you need to use attenuators?
You use them when input voltages are higher than 200V on this Pico. So things like primary ignition and injectors would call for an attenuator to be safe.
Paul has a 2 part video on the pico set up
Yes I do and they are linked in this video :-) Thanks guys!
Sir, may l ask.
1.) Do you have a comparison between a Hall Effect Sensor and Non-hall effect?
2.) Do you have an actaul testing between a digital and analog signal of a hall effect sensor?
Pls give me the link Sir if there is.
Thank you. I appreciate your videos and learned a lot as well.
Check my chapter 21 playlist here on TH-cam and also my premium channel from my website (same playlist)
www.scannerdanner.com/join-scannerdanner-premium.html
@@ScannerDanner thank you Sir. So much appreciated.
Great video once again. Don,t ya just hate when your your kids get bigger than you. Just remember Caleb. Whose ya Daddy lol
Whose your daddy??!!
Lovit Paul!!!
How I talk to my stepdad now after learning from Danner....put that shit back together....low signal voltage here knuckle head!!!!!!
I convey my greetings to you and your wonderful child
Great advice, thanks....Btw Caleb looks extremely bored in this one...Lol!
He was good. This was a back to back video when it was live. He was very engaged in the faulty fuel pump diagnostic process but while we were waiting for the new pump we shot this. So he knew everything was fine and we were just gathering waveforms. I don't fault him for looking a little bored here.
Paul, please don't place you phone in the heart pocket, you don't want this microwave frequency so near to the heart. Just a friendly advice, don't get mad at me 😉
If you cant brag before your son. you are a failure . Bravo Mr. Danner . Kaleb stick with Daddy you gonna be a beast in this business
Your The Daddy
"Who's your daddy?" Where's Maury with the test results?
lol
Sixth
scanner danner you hace class un spanish
I need to take a class that's for sure
ScannerDanner ok
i hope your son will be a engineer instead of a end user....
Caleb is going to be a rock star and he is going to be part of ScannerDanner to help him pay his bills as he isn't making squat in the early years. Beau, my third born has the gift of dyslexia and he WILL be the guy designing this stuff. I'm serious too man.
After seeing DiagnoseDan all other youtubeechanics look like mickye mouse
what a stupid comment, then stay over there please
Your sons hat is on backwards, what’s up with that? Kids all do that lol
Who’s your daddy lol
Caleb seems lost in any video, I dont thing automotive is his pasion