My brother had a Western model Sovereign in the 70's and the dynamics were amazing compared to my Martin D-28. The damn thing just ringed. X-Bracing just seems to kill that.They were creatures of their time, and changing them loses the whole feeling. The MAGIC disappears.
Remarkable comparison. I like them both depending on use - the ladder is generally warmer, the X a bit crisper. They both sound wonderful. And your playing is wonderful.
Good comparison. Very nice playing. Ladder braced sounds more like Page. Listeners should remember that these are 2 different guitars, not the same one that's been modified. Ladder is from 1962, X-braced is date unknown.
One can make subjective observations all day. I will simply say that the bracing change creates a different sound. Having said that, I would want one x-braced, and one ladder braced, for different playing situations.
The x braced has a much more even tone to my ear, it sounds more ' expensive ', but the original has its own thing. If i had one I'd leave it as it is.
Thanks So Much for this. Saved me $700. Literally. Was ready to pull the trigger on getting one I just aquired done. My goal? To play Zeppelin as sweet as you do. Thanks. Ladder braced it will stay. 1966 1260 from the original owner. He had the bridge changed to bridge pins at some point. It plays high. Just saw on TH-cam a steam job technique for bringing the action closer by steaming the body of the guitar while clamped. From a 50 year luthier. Ten minutes and let it sit for three days. Free. Beats a neck reset. Fingers crossed. Thanks so much.
My thought on it is that by the time you go through the upgrade on the x-bracing and the money involved you might as well just buy a nice x-braced guitar save yourself the hassle and enjoy the ladder-braced Harmony for what it is.
Jimmy Page has been my favorite all-around music maker since I was a beginning guitarist as a child in the early seventies, here in Seattle. Last week, I strolled into my local hole in the wall guitar store/pawn shop, and as I walked back to the acoustic guitars, I saw a Harmony Sovereign H-656OA for $100.00. I ran/walked to the nearest cash machine and ripped the cash out of the machine, and, dang! The guitar rings like a gdmn bell. I looked inside and saw the x-bracing I've heard about, and there it was. I can hold a lit match 4-5 inches above the sound hole and lightly tap the back of the guitar and poof (!) Out goes the match. I love your posts. 🌹
@sethtravins3647 The back is ladder-braced; the sound-hole side is undoubtedly x-braced (I'm holding it in my hands.) And according to Jimmy Page/The Anthology, his is x-braced as well.
It sounds just as great on these two Harmony guitars, especially the ladder braced one. Nonetheless these two guitars (in my opinion) have their own distinct personality, and make “Over The Hills And Far Away” sounds as good as it sounds on the Martin D-28.
Over the last year or so I have come to own two of these. Can't find the date stamp on ether but one has a slightly deferent placement of the logo then the other. After looking through photos accost the internut I have only found one that matched it and a lot that match the other. The rarer one seems to have the "Sovereign' just a little bit higher up then all the others. They both have open tuners that don't any I've seen so far. It's also ladder braced and sounds fantastic. The other had a butcher do the X bracing but left the ladder in. I know? Plus did one hell of a $#@!&* job on the neck reset PLUS for some damn reason moved the truss rod to the body like a martin but put the wrong end at the sound hole. There are signs they must have removed the fingerboard to do this because under the truss rod cover at the head has been blocked and it's the onlt thing they did well. Why I have no idea? Its that or they drove it though then drove a block behind it? Again I have no idea why? It's a mess. Not sure just what I'm going to do with it at this point. The action and angle are so far out it's worthless. It is getting cool out? Maybe a fire? This just might be the longest comment I've ever left on a youtube video?
Hope this helps yu...In 63 they went from block letters to script on headstock. In 65 they went from a short bridge backing plate to one that went across whole guitar (across the lower bout A mirror should show this. Sometimes in early 70s mfrg went offshore & no more Made in USA on truss cover. I have had good luck with doing a "slip the back" reglue to get the action to a minimum. It really does little harm to the guitar, if you are slow & careful. Less invasive & difficult than properneck reset, ....but may not suit some on here. Not exactly kosher..😅 Google if interested. Good luck...GREAT GUTARS
Good video. This ladder braced guitar sounds wonderful. Does that prove that all Harmony Sovereigns sound that good? No it doesn't. I have seen other comparison videos where the x-brace model is much fuller and more even string to string.
this is good to know. i am stressing out about the prospect of rebracing my beloved Sovereign because of the top starting to fail and wanted to see a comparison between the two. thanks for the video! out of curiosity, would you have a measurement from the soundhole edge to the x for a reference?
Liked! Never thought I'd say this but I prefer the ladder braced in this case. Who did the conversion of the X-braced? It does sound great by itself but in this case your ladder braced is just fantastic. I'd pick up a guitar like that in a heartbeat! Thanks for a nicely done video.
I usually dig X-bracing, but here the it almost seems to have spoiled the guitar. Mushy and hollow as it souns. The ladder is far preferred. Is the X a modification ? Nice test ~ Best Thoughts
It's not so much x-bracing in general that makes the difference. You have to know how to voice bracing for the best sound. An x-braced Harmony from someone who knows what they're doing will sound 100 times better than any ladder braced guitar. This however is a bad example.
All X bracing is not the same. This guitar is boinkie and rattling. Check out #baxendaleconversions on Instagram to really see what a properly remanufactured H1260 can sound like.
For me the ladder is way better. More full toned...less reedy & steely sounding (thinner). Am on my 3rd 1260 overhaul & yes there is bellying, but they are stable & stay in tune beautifully. A neck reset is a must, either way. I would not dream of converting to X - bracing. If you do that, yu remove the "soul" of that guitar IMHO.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but it's looking like your x braced is actually ladder braced, unless you saying only the top is x braced ? I have a 64', original ladder braced, and there is an absolute and obvious sonic difference. Ladder braced fills the room up, I have to literally play softer when jamming with other acoustics. Your X braced definitely sounds much thinner, all warmth just about gone, like the average acoustics out there these days. My H1260 has spoiled me forever. I can't even play other acoustics without feeling and hearing a distinct loss. Lol... Mine took me 40 years to find. All original, no neck reset, as it came out in 64'.
The one with the string through bridge is all original and ladder braced. The one with the pin bridge was xbraced by a luthier in Delaware. I preferred the ladder braced.
I have the same 1962 1260 in original condition. Positives: it really barks in the mids. Negatives: highs and lows are diminished and not a lot of sustain(which can be considered positives if that's the sound you're going for) I have another Silvertone Sovereign I may X-brace someday.
hey hello i have literly the same same guitar of harmony sovereign and if you know the price of this guitare can you tell me because i want to sell my guitar and i dont know all about this guitar all i know is my guitar is the same and i buy it in 1962
Depends on the condition. These guitars are not rare. What is rare is a Harmony Sovereign of that age in good condition. These guitars, in original poor condition sell for about $250 US. In good Condition around $400-$500, in mint original condition $600-$900. If you have a 1962 in mint original condition that would be rare.
Its a shame how many of these guitars get altered, totally kills the character of the guitars. Doesn't help that most of the x bracing is done by weekend warrior "luthiers". In 30 years people with ears will be stripping out their work and converting back to ladder bracing to get the authentic tone.
Being rather foreign to these guitars, I would have like to hear the talk. Okay, perhaps not 20 minutes, but definitely the essential facts and circumstances behind the change of braces fx. For H's sake people who don't like talk can go fast forward. Don't know if you guys have heard this one. Though the recording is bad, the guit sounds pretty good. th-cam.com/video/cyu6HQcjg9Q/w-d-xo.html
![[TH] VCT Pacific Stage 2 - Playoffs Day 3 // DRX vs GEN | PRX vs TLN](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CWM1Q-2-o3M/mqdefault.jpg)
The ladder braced guitar is glorious
My brother had a Western model Sovereign in the 70's and the dynamics were amazing compared to my Martin D-28. The damn thing just ringed. X-Bracing just seems to kill that.They were creatures of their time, and changing them loses the whole feeling. The MAGIC disappears.
Remarkable comparison. I like them both depending on use - the ladder is generally warmer, the X a bit crisper. They both sound wonderful. And your playing is wonderful.
Thank you! And thank you for the positive comment. :-)
Ladder bracing all the way
Good comparison. Very nice playing. Ladder braced sounds more like Page. Listeners should remember that these are 2 different guitars, not the same one that's been modified. Ladder is from 1962, X-braced is date unknown.
One can make subjective observations all day. I will simply say that the bracing change creates a different sound. Having said that, I would want one x-braced, and one ladder braced, for different playing situations.
That’s a great comment and I agree. Thank you
Ladder-braced nails Page's tone in these demos...!
I just bought what **looks** like a very well cared for 12 string sovereign off goodwill. It will remain ladder braced for sure! Nice video.
"Ramble on" yes!! My fav!! Rock on! Sounds spot on!
I have modified a few of these. The X braced ones tend to have more bass. The ladder braced ones have more punch, mids and high end.
I think the X sounds “crisper” and metallic. and the ladder brace is warmer woodier.
Ladder braced all day long , - that unique 1260 sound , was using earthwood light gauge on mine now fitted martin 80/20 light gauge , its sublime .
X-braced. More darker sounding, better for rock.
I prefer the ladder bracing but it really all comes down to preference. both sound good.
The x braced has a much more even tone to my ear, it sounds more ' expensive ', but the original has its own thing. If i had one I'd leave it as it is.
Jesus! . . . It's night and day, the ladder braced wins every time the x braced is defiantly inferior in sound.
Definitely sounds more like the records
It had been interesting to hear the difference of a V brace converted git too. 🙂
Strumming I liked the ladder braced 1260, finger picking I preferred the X-braced 1260.
Thanks for the positive comment Ron
Thanks So Much for this. Saved me $700. Literally. Was ready to pull the trigger on getting one I just aquired done. My goal? To play Zeppelin as sweet as you do. Thanks. Ladder braced it will stay. 1966 1260 from the original owner. He had the bridge changed to bridge pins at some point. It plays high. Just saw on TH-cam a steam job technique for bringing the action closer by steaming the body of the guitar while clamped. From a 50 year luthier. Ten minutes and let it sit for three days. Free. Beats a neck reset. Fingers crossed.
Thanks so much.
No problem. Email me if you have any questions. My full name at gmail
First name Timothy
My thought on it is that by the time you go through the upgrade on the x-bracing and the money involved you might as well just buy a nice x-braced guitar save yourself the hassle and enjoy the ladder-braced Harmony for what it is.
Jimmy Page has been my favorite all-around music maker since I was a beginning guitarist as a child in the early seventies, here in Seattle. Last week, I strolled into my local hole in the wall guitar store/pawn shop, and as I walked back to the acoustic guitars, I saw a Harmony Sovereign H-656OA for $100.00. I ran/walked to the nearest cash machine and ripped the cash out of the machine, and, dang! The guitar rings like a gdmn bell. I looked inside and saw the x-bracing I've heard about, and there it was. I can hold a lit match 4-5 inches above the sound hole and lightly tap the back of the guitar and poof (!) Out goes the match. I love your posts. 🌹
Great story! And thank you so much.
@@jackruby45 You're so welcome.
I think you meant to say that the 6560a was ladder braced. (They are ! And that’s the sound Jimmy Page got)
@sethtravins3647 The back is ladder-braced; the sound-hole side is undoubtedly x-braced (I'm holding it in my hands.) And according to Jimmy Page/The Anthology, his is x-braced as well.
“Over the Hills and Far Away” was played on his Martin D28.
Yes, I know. Thank you.
It sounds just as great on these two Harmony guitars, especially the ladder braced one. Nonetheless these two guitars (in my opinion) have their own distinct personality, and make “Over The Hills And Far Away” sounds as good as it sounds on the Martin D-28.
What about the rain song?
Over the last year or so I have come to own two of these. Can't find the date stamp on ether but one has a slightly deferent placement of the logo then the other. After looking through photos accost the internut I have only found one that matched it and a lot that match the other. The rarer one seems to have the "Sovereign' just a little bit higher up then all the others. They both have open tuners that don't any I've seen so far. It's also ladder braced and sounds fantastic. The other had a butcher do the X bracing but left the ladder in. I know? Plus did one hell of a $#@!&* job on the neck reset PLUS for some damn reason moved the truss rod to the body like a martin but put the wrong end at the sound hole. There are signs they must have removed the fingerboard to do this because under the truss rod cover at the head has been blocked and it's the onlt thing they did well. Why I have no idea? Its that or they drove it though then drove a block behind it? Again I have no idea why? It's a mess. Not sure just what I'm going to do with it at this point. The action and angle are so far out it's worthless. It is getting cool out? Maybe a fire? This just might be the longest comment I've ever left on a youtube video?
Hope this helps yu...In 63 they went from block letters to script on headstock. In 65 they went from a short bridge backing plate to one that went across whole guitar (across the lower bout A mirror should show this. Sometimes in early 70s mfrg went offshore & no more Made in USA on truss cover.
I have had good luck with doing a "slip the back" reglue to get the action to a minimum. It really does little harm to the guitar, if you are slow & careful. Less invasive & difficult than properneck reset, ....but may not suit some on here. Not exactly kosher..😅 Google if interested. Good luck...GREAT GUTARS
Good video. This ladder braced guitar sounds wonderful. Does that prove that all Harmony Sovereigns sound that good? No it doesn't. I have seen other comparison videos where the x-brace model is much fuller and more even string to string.
I was using a pretty good microphone too.
@@jackruby45 I don't think it's a fair comparison because one is pinned bridge the other is pinless bridge.
this is good to know. i am stressing out about the prospect of rebracing my beloved Sovereign because of the top starting to fail and wanted to see a comparison between the two. thanks for the video! out of curiosity, would you have a measurement from the soundhole edge to the x for a reference?
right off the bat the ladder bracing sounds closer to the studio recording of Ramble on
I agree. Ladder is my fav. Thanks for watching
I would love to hear that ladder braced git with a through-saddle instead of the top-loader.
Liked! Never thought I'd say this but I prefer the ladder braced in this case. Who did the conversion of the X-braced? It does sound great by itself but in this case your ladder braced is just fantastic. I'd pick up a guitar like that in a heartbeat! Thanks for a nicely done video.
Ladder.. Men.!! sounds more cool and original as the Album. The Sound is pretty unique. With the X brace you kill the led zeppelin vibe. :(
Thank you
This also sounds like it could’ve been Nick Drake’s guitar.
I usually dig X-bracing, but here the it almost seems to have spoiled the guitar. Mushy and hollow as it souns.
The ladder is far preferred.
Is the X a modification ?
Nice test ~ Best Thoughts
what is your opinion Tim? I have an opus im fixing the truss rod and refinishing the neck.
I like the ladder braced sound better.
The ladder-braced SOUNDS 10 times better. Why would anybody x-brace these.
It's not so much x-bracing in general that makes the difference. You have to know how to voice bracing for the best sound. An x-braced Harmony from someone who knows what they're doing will sound 100 times better than any ladder braced guitar. This however is a bad example.
All X bracing is not the same. This guitar is boinkie and rattling. Check out #baxendaleconversions on Instagram to really see what a properly remanufactured H1260 can sound like.
For me the ladder is way better. More full toned...less reedy & steely sounding (thinner). Am on my 3rd 1260 overhaul & yes there is bellying, but they are stable & stay in tune beautifully. A neck reset is a must, either way. I would not dream of converting to X - bracing. If you do that, yu remove the "soul" of that guitar IMHO.
X brace sounds dead in comparison.
Like it has old dead strings on it.
Ladder brace for the win!
Please correct me if I am wrong, but it's looking like your x braced is actually ladder braced, unless you saying only the top is x braced ? I have a 64', original ladder braced, and there is an absolute and obvious sonic difference. Ladder braced fills the room up, I have to literally play softer when jamming with other acoustics. Your X braced definitely sounds much thinner, all warmth just about gone, like the average acoustics out there these days. My H1260 has spoiled me forever. I can't even play other acoustics without feeling and hearing a distinct loss. Lol... Mine took me 40 years to find. All original, no neck reset, as it came out in 64'.
The one with the string through bridge is all original and ladder braced. The one with the pin bridge was xbraced by a luthier in Delaware. I preferred the ladder braced.
Yes. I would say the original ladder sounds better. The x braced one sounds too bright
I have the same 1962 1260 in original condition. Positives: it really barks in the mids. Negatives: highs and lows are diminished and not a lot of sustain(which can be considered positives if that's the sound you're going for)
I have another Silvertone Sovereign I may X-brace someday.
hey hello i have literly the same same guitar of harmony sovereign and if you know the price of this guitare can you tell me because i want to sell my guitar and i dont know all about this guitar all i know is my guitar is the same and i buy it in 1962
Depends on the condition. These guitars are not rare. What is rare is a Harmony Sovereign of that age in good condition. These guitars, in original poor condition sell for about $250 US. In good Condition around $400-$500, in mint original condition $600-$900. If you have a 1962 in mint original condition that would be rare.
Tanks you tim bickford
The x-bracing in this comparison seems to suck all the character from the guitar which is the reason people like these guitars in the first place!
Its a shame how many of these guitars get altered, totally kills the character of the guitars. Doesn't help that most of the x bracing is done by weekend warrior "luthiers". In 30 years people with ears will be stripping out their work and converting back to ladder bracing to get the authentic tone.
Let's get rid of the thing that makes this guitar unique... Wtf
What a bad decision to rebrace that guitar... The guitar sounded big and punchy with ladder bracing, now it just sounds thin and cheap :-(
Thanks
01:56 I can't for the life of me understand why people make videos like this with several minutes of talking first. Play the guitar, then talk.
Thanks for the comment. I appreciate the feedback. In retrospect I wish that had just played.
Also, it's ironic that your channel has no content. But, just for you I shortened the video. No hard feelings. Thanks.
Being rather foreign to these guitars, I would have like to hear the talk. Okay, perhaps not 20 minutes, but definitely the essential facts and circumstances behind the change of braces fx.
For H's sake people who don't like talk can go fast forward.
Don't know if you guys have heard this one. Though the recording is bad, the guit sounds pretty good.
th-cam.com/video/cyu6HQcjg9Q/w-d-xo.html