Isn’t Alfred getting killed the dumbest thing ever considering he’s alive in Doomsday Clock which, if I’m not mistaken takes place after Tom Kings run?
It's a bushleague moves, like most of tom king's work, to sell ocmic books. Snyder didn't need to result to ham writing . I have no problem with alfred dying if the stakes are there. But this is clearly to push a bad story
@@nathanmichael167 I mean, when Thomas Wayne is taking out ALL of the Bat Family (bar Dick and Bruce) single-handedly (after they JUST handed him his ass) there's some pretty fishy writing going on.
Nathan Michael also Tom King probably doesn’t understand that the way he wrote the book made it essentially the Catwoman Show (with minor cameos by Batman)
Or maybe it's stupid to get mad at the fact that "Alfred is dead" because doomsday clock is right after fans are only thinking in the now they should learn how to use common sense and realized their getting baited jeez.
@@nathanmichael167 The thing to consider also is that the stakes *were* there. However Tom king's run got cut short. Which is why basically everything in this issue was streamlined to an insane degree. There was maybe 5-10 issues worth of material here they could have had, but it was all condensed into maybe 1 or 2.
*Bane has a circuitous scheme where everything was a part of his plan:* "Brilliant!" *Batman has an equally circuitous scheme where everything was a part of his plan:* "Well...that's dumb." *Thomas Wayne takes credit for it all and has an equally circuitous scheme:* "Tom King, you need to stop."
Rodrigo Mattos when Nightwing and Superman had a bachelor party for Batman, Hush crashed it and at that point he ended up in a separate universe with faceless ppl
"A lot of people have found Tom King's run divisive" When a reviewer says something is " *divisive* " what they usually mean is it was objectively bad, but they like the writer/director, so don't want to completely throw them under the bus.
It’s a senseless statement. It takes ALL the viewers to find it divisive. To say that a group finds something divisive is to say that it has a popularity of essentially 50%
Rob real quick Catwoman didn't die. When you said it's like "The Killing Joke" that's exactly what it is, it's that version of the killing joke then she becomes his "oracle". It was shown in the Batman flashpoint mini-series. Its been a minute so I don't expect you to remember that but that's how that whole story turned out. She still died with the rest of the Flashpoint universe at the end of Flashpoint but yeah she didn't die immediately after she got shot.
I honestly loved Tom King’s run, and the criticism he received is understandable, but the fact that people double down on the bad, ignoring the fact his run was shorten, and it was shorten due to other stories like Doomsday Clock finishing, and various future projects discredits his work. He had a plan up until issue 100 and forced to cut back 15 issues worth of story. Overall, I love Tom King as a writer and I think, and hope, this run gets better with age as people read it in trade. If Vision and Mr. Miracle taught us anything, is that King does his best work with condensed stories. Which is why I’m excited for his Batman/Catwoman series.
Glad that ur sentiments are the same as mine. I loved this run because it felt like actually character and not a rehashed story.! #Bat and Cat forever!
Funny thing to say when the first half Bane was manipulating the characters and the second half Batman was pretending because he thought the enemy had an eye on him. After Bane and Thomas were taken down was when the characters [Batman at least] was not acting or being manipulated. Each to their own. Also this is rehased It's Knightfall, Phantasm, a 90's superman story and examining Batman's mental state and asking can he be happy? A story we've seen soooo many times and that was explored by Synder. The Batman writer before King.
So...if this were to take place before Doomsday Clock, and everything reset at the end of that story, does that mean Alfred never died? Did anything in this story matter?
My take on this that when it comes down to it Bruce's real power has been the obsession that pushes him to win and his father is far more batshit crazy than him so yeah...
@@timbridger4681 it's not that Tom isn't a good writer, it's that like most, he needs a strong editorial hand to get his best work. Up to The Button, his run was pretty good. Around that time he had a falling out with his editor, and the guy who replaced him is notorious for being a rubber stamp. Giving someone free reign is rarely a good idea no matter how good they are. HG Wells, arguably the greatest sci fi writer of all time owed a great deal of his success to his editor.
I really like the art in the beginning. I've seen this style of illustration work and it seems to do well with urban vigilantes. Yo Rob have you thought about doing the TPB GCPD?
When Batman's going off about the things he chooses, I imagine him saying that line from the animated series. And it works since Thomas Wayne is sort of not his father. "You are not my father! I am not a disgrace! I am vengeance! I am the night! I AM BATMAN!" Now, is it "I am the night," or "I am the Knight,"? Or both?
@ComicsExplained - I have faint memories of a batman comic I had during the 90s that I can't find anything about. The major 'scene' I remember is batman falling into a pit similar to a Lazarus pit and emerging as some demon. Do you know of anything like that or where I could find out more?
Batman "cheating" against Bain is perfectly in line with the character. He fights with intelligence first and foremost, and only a fool enters a fair fight.
Yeah but there was always a sense of playing fair to his character. For example it’s also reasonable for batman to fight bane 1v1 with no gadgets or venom and for him to beat bane at that level. It just felt off for batman to say that he lied even though he does it all the time. It felt rushed is what I’m trying to say.
I kind of liked the ending....I really liked the first 3 arcs, I am gotham, I am suicide and I am bane were great... the wedding fiasco, not so much and the ending with Thomas Wayne, Alfred's death (I really did not like that) and the conclusion were OK for the most part. I got a little off with the Clayface twist, since the last time we saw Clayface, Batman and the rest of the family believed him dead by Bat-Woman, to see him not only in Gotham but working for Batman again was a WTF moment for me. I really enjoy Bruce/Selina relationship, hope the next creative team keeps it (let's move the character forward). I would want more Damian/Bruce/Selina interactions too.
Having lost my Uncle then Mother, then a Sister, and finally a cousin, all within months and years of each other.....I get what Batman was feeling. I live with those feelings everyday. The pain, the helplessness, , the confusion, the loss, the anger, the rage..... If I'm lucky I'll end up in an asylum.
Also so based on this run that means flashpoint Batman is a better fighter than everyone in the bat family including Batman?! How in the world is this old man that much better?! Explain that Tom King
You can stay true to a character and still change their personality. There are moments where their character can change. I.e. Xavier in the new Dawn of X. This is a new Xavier, with a new goal, but his core there are things he wouldnt do.
@TheLuigifan8881 didn’t such but was def worse than infinity war. Also I really hated the fact that the hulk of all characters was just out of commission for both movies. Ok nevermind it sucked
0:49 When it comes to being true to a character and doing things a certain way there's a trifecta. Stakes, View of the World, and View of Self. Tom King certainly has some slip-ups a few times on the run. But some of that has to do with the nature of DC, like the Booster Gold saga getting changed to lead up to Heroes in Crisis. I'm really hoping Strange Adventures is something good.
I was glad that King's run is over, then I remembered he's doing the Batman/Catwoman series. And as a Batcat fan I would much rather have Tom Taylor write the book. I love the Injustice series and I loved how he handled the characters and relationship. Nothing felt OOC and they had really cute moments in the series. Even as a fan of the relationship, seeing Bruce and Selina call each other Bat/Cat makes me want to rip my eyes out ffs. THEY KNOW EACH OTHER'S NAMES!! Honestly at this point I'm just waiting for Helena to come.
All these dead characters showing up in this comic and the apparently dead Alfred who's been seen in other comics set waaay after this along with the dumb af premise that never gets referenced in any other DC comic leads me to believe........ IT'S NOT CANON
Uhh it is and maybe it just took place before? Also maybe fans are just dumb for thinking anyone would actually stay dead your reading a comic book......
Great video Rob. I had a hard time coming back to this title. I got back in after the death of Alfred. I found the story compelling. I just hope the next chapter picks up after the Batman/Superman run.
I didn't read all 86$+ issues, but it was a fair to good storyline. I can't seem to forget the "I love you Cat and Bat" lines tho (for better or worse).
It makes sense to me. Batman isn't concerned with honor, he's focused on winning. As long as he doesn't kill anyone, he'll do just about anything to get the advantage in a fight and take out his opponent.
It isn't that chars should never change, it's that there should be explanations when they do, or at the least it shouldn't be freaking overnight overhauls or two canon reboots in less than a year.
I loved Tom King run on Bats, he humanized the character, that take out on Bane was on point. I can't understand why "fans" get so angry when some writer actually does something new with a character, Bats was true to what he is in the whole run. But well, haters are always there.
None of this is new though. Aside from Joker having to stop bruce from killing, Alfred watching young bruce about to commit suicide, Alfred deciding to die because he wanted to keep Bruce safe, Bruce being manipulated into proposing, Selina being so guillible and stupid that she'll break up with Bruce because she feared happiness will make him give up batman when the two of them were engaged, happy and living together for months and he didn't stop being batman. This was knightfall, Phantasm and Synder's Batman which also explored if Batman can be Batman and be happy. Bruce's emotional and mental health has also being explored to death. We've seen batman broken and human dealing with his issues before. Only here he wasn't even broken since according to Bruce's own narration he was faking. heck even Batman v KGBeast wasn't even new nor was the Knightmares arc . The story with the gentle man was a rehased superman/WonderWoman story. A wedding would have been new but nope we get status quo and catwoman as a prostitute back in canon because reasons
Thomas Wayne Batman seems to not be stronger...but just more (somehow) brutal. Less committed to allowing people to live, and more trying to ensure that they are incapacitated. Thomas....he just wants to make them un-alive if they are in his way, but CAN also restrain himself from killing blows as he is a surgeon.
Honestly i dunno why Bendis and Tom King were trying so hard to Ruin Batman and Superman's Dead Fathers. It's one thing to change a character, but this is just blatantly Out of Character
I feel he would lie if he needed to, hell isn't the first time, plus past stories have established that for the right reasons batman is willing to do some unethical and not too heroic things
Yeah, he did not die, in the very last issue we see him driving away with his doctor... but as far as the family knew he WAS dead. What was off to me was that not only Batman knew he was alive (the whole fight with Batwoman was because of his death) he pulled him back to Gotham and to the fight, who knows how far he was in his treatment?
I would think with everything that happen to batman he would lie and cheat to win for all that had been done to him #foralfred I know the feeling he feels having someone take ur father figure away forever
Alfred committed suicide. Why is Rob ignoring the lettering. That was Alfred's suicide message. bruce was on to Bane before city of Bane. He could have stopped any of this from Happening
And YET.. Didn't batman HIMSELF once say: " You can't always be better than your enemies, but you can be more prepared." Bane should never have expected anything less of Batman.
I enjoyed the early arcs of Tom Kings’ run like I Am Suicide, Rooftops and I Am Bane. Rules of Engagement was fun. The Button was great. Then that’s about it. The lead up to The Wedding was strange and weak. The Wedding for issue #50 was very disappointing. It was pretty much a rip off. Then Kings’ second half run was ... just weird. By the time issue #85 rolled around, I was burned out by King. Even frustrated. City of Bane imo was a disaster. Should have been much more better, had more depth and be more coherent. And the final issue just crawled over the finish line. Nothing matched up to the heights of those earlier arcs.
I really have been waiting for the end of this story. Thanks Rob! Having said that, Thomas Wayne defeats the Bat-family on his own. No but I still enjoyed the story.
Stop being bias, people aren’t idiots for not liking writing fans don’t have to like what a writers write if it does goes against the character. Character development and story is important but if it’s not people call it out. It’s stupid just to keep accepting something just cuz it seems like it’s interesting sounds kinda stupid. Each to there own, but it’s not right just to go along just cuz.
I've tolerated you laughing every other sentence and believing every comic is soooo!!! Amazing!!!, but I am tired of everyone getting the better of batman and everyone knowing his identity. There's just no way he would have been so epicly blindsided like this. Every once in a while I'd love to see him soundly, unequivocally defeat his opponent.
tbh i was very optimistic about tom kings run, especially after the war of jokes and riddles (one of my favorite arcs period) but he just drops the ball, the pacing, the dialogue, the story logic all of it just misses.
Alright, that pissed me off a little bit. Thomas W. should *not* be able to take on all those guys considering he lacks a gun and he has less training than Bruce and he's older and beat up and outnumbered. It's ridiculous and it severely downplays the bat family and their skills.
Batman attempts to break Bane over his knee. I can't help but see it as a hacky scenario designed specifically for people who arent actual fans of the comics. If a person could pick Bane out of a lineup of DC villains, there is only going to be one thing that they are guaranteed to know about him. It's starting to look like the writers are out of new ideas. People really liked METAL, and it became a sort of twisted reflection porn. The big theme is role reversal. This story feels like the result of a brainstorming session focused on inversion. It reminds me of the Family Guy bit with Stephen King trying to pitch a new book to the publisher. King doesnt have any more ideas for his new book, so he grabs a lamp and tries to make that scary.
Also Psycho Pirate just chilling there at the end just hey guys you two just duke it out i’ll just stand here and look at you’re nice mansion Batman. Lol
The problem isnt what he did, its what he said; the 'I Lied". If you say 'Batman isnt going to let an opponent dictate terms of engagement," SOmeone will say 'Duh, Sun-Tzu." and some Art of war thing, and 'not interrupting an opponent committing an error'. The difference was in his dialogue, see the previous 'Hell Yeah' . I chaulk that one up to Clayface as Bats.
So Martha lost her son and started killing for fun? Is Martha Wayne supposed to be that weak? The Flashpoint scenario with them was always kind of strange. And she killed Alfred? Is that why he's okay with the main Alfred dying?
I'm sorry but after Gotham, the quality of this run took a nose dive, it doesn't help that Tom King almost ruined Pre 52 Wally West with that god awful Heroes in Crisis.
I think the reason why Thomas Wayne was able to take out the Bat family even when Bruce Wayne is more capable than Thomas is because in my opinion Bruce and the rest of the Bat family constantly holds back. So when the Bat family is discussing if them should kill Thomas or not, that's not a discussion for Thomas if the roles were in the reverse. Bruce taught the Bat family to never kill but Thomas is more willing and capable of doing that. So when the Bat family is thinking about morals, Thomas is thinking about doing whatever is necessary to win and survive.
The Reverse That makes zero sense, being more restrained should mean absolutely nothing here since there are about SEVEN people ganging up on him, and all of them are better at hand-to-hand combat than he is, and with his lack of skill in that regard, seriously that’s ACTUALLY why he used guns in Flashpoint, without them he couldn’t exactly take on muscular criminals, he should logically get his ass handed to him, even if they aren’t going for the kill, especially since they could just pin him down, rendering him no longer a threat. Him just beating all of them despite being outnumbered doesn’t make sense, they would overwhelm him with blows from multiple directions before he could even land a hit.
Ive got to respect Batman for his self control. I'd have killed Bane for breaking my back. If Bane killed the man who raised me, I honestly can't say what I might do to him, but it would be painful for both of us
They have always said Cassandra is Bruce equal or possible better when it comes to fighting, but thomas beat her and the whole bat family at the same time. I like tom king run overall but make it make sense. Also theres never been a single scenario in batman's history where Alfred's death didnt crush Bruce push him over the edge, so if they're not going to experiment with that then just bring alfred back otherwise his death is purposeless
It would be totally interesting if they did a super fathers short series With Thomas Wayne and Jor-El similar to the super sons series with John Kent and Damien Wayne
"Batman sounds like me when he talks."
Batman's voice doesn't make me want to play for the other team though.
Nani
Huuuuuhhhh?!
Oh OHHHHHHH same tbh
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
Right? But only after 12PM though
Isn’t Alfred getting killed the dumbest thing ever considering he’s alive in Doomsday Clock which, if I’m not mistaken takes place after Tom Kings run?
It's a bushleague moves, like most of tom king's work, to sell ocmic books. Snyder didn't need to result to ham writing . I have no problem with alfred dying if the stakes are there. But this is clearly to push a bad story
@@nathanmichael167 I mean, when Thomas Wayne is taking out ALL of the Bat Family (bar Dick and Bruce) single-handedly (after they JUST handed him his ass) there's some pretty fishy writing going on.
Nathan Michael also Tom King probably doesn’t understand that the way he wrote the book made it essentially the Catwoman Show (with minor cameos by Batman)
Or maybe it's stupid to get mad at the fact that "Alfred is dead" because doomsday clock is right after fans are only thinking in the now they should learn how to use common sense and realized their getting baited jeez.
@@nathanmichael167 The thing to consider also is that the stakes *were* there. However Tom king's run got cut short. Which is why basically everything in this issue was streamlined to an insane degree.
There was maybe 5-10 issues worth of material here they could have had, but it was all condensed into maybe 1 or 2.
*Bane has a circuitous scheme where everything was a part of his plan:* "Brilliant!"
*Batman has an equally circuitous scheme where everything was a part of his plan:* "Well...that's dumb."
*Thomas Wayne takes credit for it all and has an equally circuitous scheme:* "Tom King, you need to stop."
This reminds me of the heist ep from Rick and Morty and how stupid this plot devices are.
I met your brother “Just Some Guy without a Mustache” not sure if y’all are the same profile lol
@@dabeast2499 But are you his cousin...?
Hasn't Tom King written good Batman stories? What happened?
Eh I liked Tom King's run for the most part. It has problems but there were a lot of awesome Bane moments.
And Batburger.
Yeah, I don't l see the big deal about it.
3:38 when did Hush come back? I thought he was trapped in that pocket universe with the faceless people
we all did.... it is never explained
Because....comics
wow, I really missed that... when/where was this? pocket universe? faceless people?
@@rodrigomattos369 hush vs nightwing prelude to the wedding
Rodrigo Mattos when Nightwing and Superman had a bachelor party for Batman, Hush crashed it and at that point he ended up in a separate universe with faceless ppl
this batman saga was so confusing reading it in real time issue by issue
Thank god the madness is over
This took so long... The "Bat and Cat" relationship made me cringe every time.
WAIT HE'S WRITING ANOTHER "BATMAN AND CATWOMAN" NO
lolmaster lol 😂 indeed
Read current Daredevil
Yes, Flashpoint batman takes out All of the bat family with no understanding how.
@@nathanmichael167 yup indeed it was really stupid
I hope they ignore this run completely and continue on with Alfred still alive and everyone in the DC universe having no knowledge of Thomas Wayne
I feel like that is often said about Tom King's work.
@V B
Perhaps, but I was going for a HiC joke tbh.
They don’t
The "I could kill you" speech is almost word for word from Knightfall when Bane broke Bruce's back...
"A lot of people have found Tom King's run divisive"
When a reviewer says something is " *divisive* " what they usually mean is it was objectively bad, but they like the writer/director, so don't want to completely throw them under the bus.
It’s a senseless statement. It takes ALL the viewers to find it divisive.
To say that a group finds something divisive is to say that it has a popularity of essentially 50%
I'm indifferent. I'd like it if he looked smug while saying "I lied" or replied "Hell yeah" when Bane says "You lied".
Rob real quick Catwoman didn't die. When you said it's like "The Killing Joke" that's exactly what it is, it's that version of the killing joke then she becomes his "oracle". It was shown in the Batman flashpoint mini-series. Its been a minute so I don't expect you to remember that but that's how that whole story turned out. She still died with the rest of the Flashpoint universe at the end of Flashpoint but yeah she didn't die immediately after she got shot.
I honestly loved Tom King’s run, and the criticism he received is understandable, but the fact that people double down on the bad, ignoring the fact his run was shorten, and it was shorten due to other stories like Doomsday Clock finishing, and various future projects discredits his work. He had a plan up until issue 100 and forced to cut back 15 issues worth of story.
Overall, I love Tom King as a writer and I think, and hope, this run gets better with age as people read it in trade. If Vision and Mr. Miracle taught us anything, is that King does his best work with condensed stories. Which is why I’m excited for his Batman/Catwoman series.
Sooo...
We’re not going to even acknowledge the fact
that we are looking at living in a world without
Alfred Thaddeus Crane Pennyworth??
My favorite thing Rob talks about is Kiteman. Every single time Kiteman comes up Rob seems happy lol
Glad that ur sentiments are the same as mine. I loved this run because it felt like actually character and not a rehashed story.! #Bat and Cat forever!
Funny thing to say when the first half Bane was manipulating the characters and the second half Batman was pretending because he thought the enemy had an eye on him. After Bane and Thomas were taken down was when the characters [Batman at least] was not acting or being manipulated. Each to their own. Also this is rehased It's Knightfall, Phantasm, a 90's superman story and examining Batman's mental state and asking can he be happy? A story we've seen soooo many times and that was explored by Synder. The Batman writer before King.
So...if this were to take place before Doomsday Clock, and everything reset at the end of that story, does that mean Alfred never died? Did anything in this story matter?
I mean no one ever really stays dead in comics, except maybe Uncle Ben.
doesn't doomsday clock take a place in 1992? I mean, because of looking at bruce wearing old batman costume
A lot went by so fast even the flash would need a double take on it
The entire run would have been better with no poems. If I want poetry I'll read Robert Frost.
Thomas Wayne definitely shouldn't be able to take out the whole Bat family I'm in 100% agreement of that. Maybe some of them in 1 on 1 fights
If Deathstroke can take out the entire JL, why can't a tougher Batman take out 5 non-powered people?
I feel as though this Batman isn't as skilled as Deathstroke either in combat
Thing is Deathstroke is basically superpowered, healing factor, supersoldier serem etc.thomas Wayne s super power is apparently cynicism and alcohol.
Thomas Wayne was an older, more violent Batman. He wasn't afraid to hold back.
Mike Pratt Still doesn't make sense. Too bad Nightwing wasn't there
My take on this that when it comes down to it Bruce's real power has been the obsession that pushes him to win and his father is far more batshit crazy than him so yeah...
The lesson of 2019 is that caving in to loud critics midway through a story almost always makes it worse - even if the critics have a valid point.
dfailsthemost I don’t think the critics were the issue. I mean, look at Heroes In Crisis, Tom King is not a good writer, period.
And yet people celebrated his Vision story.
@@timbridger4681 it's not that Tom isn't a good writer, it's that like most, he needs a strong editorial hand to get his best work. Up to The Button, his run was pretty good. Around that time he had a falling out with his editor, and the guy who replaced him is notorious for being a rubber stamp. Giving someone free reign is rarely a good idea no matter how good they are. HG Wells, arguably the greatest sci fi writer of all time owed a great deal of his success to his editor.
Exactly fans need to learn patience with these stories because at the end of the day everything would always go to back to the status quo.
Comic Book Bob I agree
I really like the art in the beginning. I've seen this style of illustration work and it seems to do well with urban vigilantes. Yo Rob have you thought about doing the TPB GCPD?
When Batman's going off about the things he chooses, I imagine him saying that line from the animated series. And it works since Thomas Wayne is sort of not his father.
"You are not my father! I am not a disgrace! I am vengeance! I am the night! I AM BATMAN!"
Now, is it "I am the night," or "I am the Knight,"? Or both?
@ComicsExplained - I have faint memories of a batman comic I had during the 90s that I can't find anything about. The major 'scene' I remember is batman falling into a pit similar to a Lazarus pit and emerging as some demon. Do you know of anything like that or where I could find out more?
Clayface is a hero again? I thought that all ended when he lost control and was killed by Batwoman.
There should be a comics explained: The Comedian vs Batman (Thomas Wayne). That would be a good fight/discussion to have.
Batman "cheating" against Bain is perfectly in line with the character. He fights with intelligence first and foremost, and only a fool enters a fair fight.
Zero Enna He’s still yet to stop me though. Gotham is my bich. You should join me, by next year I’ll be mayor.
Yeah but there was always a sense of playing fair to his character. For example it’s also reasonable for batman to fight bane 1v1 with no gadgets or venom and for him to beat bane at that level. It just felt off for batman to say that he lied even though he does it all the time. It felt rushed is what I’m trying to say.
"It was all part of Thomas Wayne's plan" Wow so he managed to ruin the double date, the one good part of the run?
Man lemme tell u something man I've been waiting for this the whole time man
I kind of liked the ending....I really liked the first 3 arcs, I am gotham, I am suicide and I am bane were great... the wedding fiasco, not so much and the ending with Thomas Wayne, Alfred's death (I really did not like that) and the conclusion were OK for the most part. I got a little off with the Clayface twist, since the last time we saw Clayface, Batman and the rest of the family believed him dead by Bat-Woman, to see him not only in Gotham but working for Batman again was a WTF moment for me. I really enjoy Bruce/Selina relationship, hope the next creative team keeps it (let's move the character forward). I would want more Damian/Bruce/Selina interactions too.
Having lost my Uncle then Mother, then a Sister, and finally a cousin, all within months and years of each other.....I get what Batman was feeling.
I live with those feelings everyday.
The pain, the helplessness, , the confusion, the loss, the anger, the rage.....
If I'm lucky I'll end up in an asylum.
Also so based on this run that means flashpoint Batman is a better fighter than everyone in the bat family including Batman?! How in the world is this old man that much better?! Explain that Tom King
That's "PROFESSOR" Pig to you, citizen. He didn't spend 4 years at super-villain university to be called "MISTER", if you don't mind!
Batman broke an honourable duel?
Awwwwwwww
Here's why people didn't like it: It was nihilistic and he killed off Alfred. It's like killing off Lois Lane.
You can stay true to a character and still change their personality. There are moments where their character can change. I.e. Xavier in the new Dawn of X. This is a new Xavier, with a new goal, but his core there are things he wouldnt do.
"Its like a story where the incredible hulk talks the whole movie" yeah avengers end game.
@TheLuigifan8881 didn’t such but was def worse than infinity war. Also I really hated the fact that the hulk of all characters was just out of commission for both movies. Ok nevermind it sucked
Liked before watching it cause I know it's gonna be good 👌👍
The only person who complains about an unfair fight is the loser.
michael isaacson if it’s a street fight then there are no rules
@@gumball5024 my point exactly, retired military and we make every sincere effort to NOT fight fair.
Unless it’s Ichigo from Bleach
@@subbackpls4774 GETSUGA TENSHO!!!
@michael isaacson
That's BS. In other words, if there are 5 men against 1 (all of them ordinary fellows), is that a "fair" fight to you? Please.
0:49 When it comes to being true to a character and doing things a certain way there's a trifecta. Stakes, View of the World, and View of Self. Tom King certainly has some slip-ups a few times on the run. But some of that has to do with the nature of DC, like the Booster Gold saga getting changed to lead up to Heroes in Crisis. I'm really hoping Strange Adventures is something good.
I was glad that King's run is over, then I remembered he's doing the Batman/Catwoman series. And as a Batcat fan I would much rather have Tom Taylor write the book. I love the Injustice series and I loved how he handled the characters and relationship. Nothing felt OOC and they had really cute moments in the series. Even as a fan of the relationship, seeing Bruce and Selina call each other Bat/Cat makes me want to rip my eyes out ffs. THEY KNOW EACH OTHER'S NAMES!! Honestly at this point I'm just waiting for Helena to come.
calling her "cat" and him "bat" is really cringe.
Yeah that kind of tipped me off. Especially when they were alone.
All these dead characters showing up in this comic and the apparently dead Alfred who's been seen in other comics set waaay after this along with the dumb af premise that never gets referenced in any other DC comic leads me to believe........ IT'S NOT CANON
Uhh it is and maybe it just took place before? Also maybe fans are just dumb for thinking anyone would actually stay dead your reading a comic book......
just wanted to say youre one of my fav TH-camrs. keep up the good work 👍
I bet if nightwing and red hood were there they would have been able to take on flashpoint Batman together
They wouldn't
Definitely would
Could u do the top 5 or 10 Batman stories of the 2010s? I felt like this was a good decade for comics. And thanks for helping me experience them Rob😁
Great video Rob. I had a hard time coming back to this title. I got back in after the death of Alfred. I found the story compelling. I just hope the next chapter picks up after the Batman/Superman run.
I didn't read all 86$+ issues, but it was a fair to good storyline.
I can't seem to forget the "I love you Cat and Bat" lines tho (for better or worse).
It makes sense to me. Batman isn't concerned with honor, he's focused on winning. As long as he doesn't kill anyone, he'll do just about anything to get the advantage in a fight and take out his opponent.
That's shows his beaten darkseid
It isn't that chars should never change, it's that there should be explanations when they do, or at the least it shouldn't be freaking overnight overhauls or two canon reboots in less than a year.
I loved Tom King run on Bats, he humanized the character, that take out on Bane was on point. I can't understand why "fans" get so angry when some writer actually does something new with a character, Bats was true to what he is in the whole run. But well, haters are always there.
None of this is new though. Aside from Joker having to stop bruce from killing, Alfred watching young bruce about to commit suicide, Alfred deciding to die because he wanted to keep Bruce safe, Bruce being manipulated into proposing, Selina being so guillible and stupid that she'll break up with Bruce because she feared happiness will make him give up batman when the two of them were engaged, happy and living together for months and he didn't stop being batman. This was knightfall, Phantasm and Synder's Batman which also explored if Batman can be Batman and be happy. Bruce's emotional and mental health has also being explored to death. We've seen batman broken and human dealing with his issues before. Only here he wasn't even broken since according to Bruce's own narration he was faking. heck even Batman v KGBeast wasn't even new nor was the Knightmares arc . The story with the gentle man was a rehased superman/WonderWoman story.
A wedding would have been new but nope we get status quo and catwoman as a prostitute back in canon because reasons
23:41, The only thing that I can think of is that one "You're not my dad!" meme 😂 😂 😂 😂
Thomas Wayne Batman seems to not be stronger...but just more (somehow) brutal. Less committed to allowing people to live, and more trying to ensure that they are incapacitated. Thomas....he just wants to make them un-alive if they are in his way, but CAN also restrain himself from killing blows as he is a surgeon.
That was a hell of an ending. Thanks for covering the story.
The music change at 15:30 😂
Wait so...Wesker and Psycho Pirate just stood their quietly as all that stuff happened? Seriously!?!?
Would you too I mean Batman batshit scary
The video misses out the reason why Wesker didn't intervene, even when asked.
Honestly i dunno why Bendis and Tom King were trying so hard to Ruin Batman and Superman's Dead Fathers.
It's one thing to change a character, but this is just blatantly Out of Character
I feel he would lie if he needed to, hell isn't the first time, plus past stories have established that for the right reasons batman is willing to do some unethical and not too heroic things
i want someone like snyder to take over the batman comics now.
It's over! It's finally over! Now we can get good stories again
I thought clayface died in the bat family civil war. Also when does all of this take place? Before doom war yes but at what point?
Yes
Yeah, he did not die, in the very last issue we see him driving away with his doctor... but as far as the family knew he WAS dead. What was off to me was that not only Batman knew he was alive (the whole fight with Batwoman was because of his death) he pulled him back to Gotham and to the fight, who knows how far he was in his treatment?
I would think with everything that happen to batman he would lie and cheat to win for all that had been done to him #foralfred I know the feeling he feels having someone take ur father figure away forever
He doesn't have anything to prove. He's got no time for bullshit, either.
@@Y2JLionHeart look at what he did to KG beast when nightwing was shot...but somehow alfred dying is like...well...guess I'mma just chill.
Alfred committed suicide. Why is Rob ignoring the lettering. That was Alfred's suicide message. bruce was on to Bane before city of Bane. He could have stopped any of this from Happening
@@chinyereugwu9431 to bane just had his rotting corpse?
And YET..
Didn't batman HIMSELF once say: " You can't always be better than your enemies, but you can be more prepared."
Bane should never have expected anything less of Batman.
I enjoyed the early arcs of Tom Kings’ run like I Am Suicide, Rooftops and I Am Bane. Rules of Engagement was fun. The Button was great. Then that’s about it. The lead up to The Wedding was strange and weak. The Wedding for issue #50 was very disappointing. It was pretty much a rip off. Then Kings’ second half run was ... just weird. By the time issue #85 rolled around, I was burned out by King. Even frustrated. City of Bane imo was a disaster. Should have been much more better, had more depth and be more coherent. And the final issue just crawled over the finish line. Nothing matched up to the heights of those earlier arcs.
The ending makes Alfred's death feel way less impactful. :(
I really have been waiting for the end of this story. Thanks Rob!
Having said that, Thomas Wayne defeats the Bat-family on his own. No but I still enjoyed the story.
I love The City of Bane. Now I need to catch up on everything else that was going in the Year of the Villains.
I love you dawg💪🏾. Just know my future kids will be listening to these as bed time stories
Stop being bias, people aren’t idiots for not liking writing fans don’t have to like what a writers write if it does goes against the character. Character development and story is important but if it’s not people call it out. It’s stupid just to keep accepting something just cuz it seems like it’s interesting sounds kinda stupid. Each to there own, but it’s not right just to go along just cuz.
Shanoske well said daddy
Personally I wasn't into City of Bane as others were. I am hoping Tynions run will be great though
I actually liked the Tom king run. I have the full run, A and B covers.
Selina was Oracle in the knight of vengeance
I think the run was good, and the arc was decent. Just wish he had more issues to work with
now we wait for the full story comp
I've tolerated you laughing every other sentence and believing every comic is soooo!!! Amazing!!!, but I am tired of everyone getting the better of batman and everyone knowing his identity. There's just no way he would have been so epicly blindsided like this. Every once in a while I'd love to see him soundly, unequivocally defeat his opponent.
tbh i was very optimistic about tom kings run, especially after the war of jokes and riddles (one of my favorite arcs period) but he just drops the ball, the pacing, the dialogue, the story logic all of it just misses.
I have a weird question how many times has gotham been isolated like this story and no mans land
ROB your wrong about Martha Joker killing Catwoman, you said it's like the Killing Joke so Selina ends up paralyze. Come on man
Alright, that pissed me off a little bit. Thomas W. should *not* be able to take on all those guys considering he lacks a gun and he has less training than Bruce and he's older and beat up and outnumbered. It's ridiculous and it severely downplays the bat family and their skills.
Bat-fam would have won if Dick Grayson was there and someone else was writing this book lmao
Batman attempts to break Bane over his knee. I can't help but see it as a hacky scenario designed specifically for people who arent actual fans of the comics. If a person could pick Bane out of a lineup of DC villains, there is only going to be one thing that they are guaranteed to know about him.
It's starting to look like the writers are out of new ideas. People really liked METAL, and it became a sort of twisted reflection porn. The big theme is role reversal. This story feels like the result of a brainstorming session focused on inversion. It reminds me of the Family Guy bit with Stephen King trying to pitch a new book to the publisher. King doesnt have any more ideas for his new book, so he grabs a lamp and tries to make that scary.
LOL. Thomas Wayne taking down the Batfamily is "intriguing" aye? I'd have gone with "garbage."
I love Tom kings run but the last issue of city of bane was kinda bad and super confusing. I wish it ended better.
It wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination for Bats to do that, he devised a plan to take out his own allies should they become villainous
Also Psycho Pirate just chilling there at the end just hey guys you two just duke it out i’ll just stand here and look at you’re nice mansion Batman. Lol
I loved Tom Kings run, I just did
thomas wayne beating Cass is crazy
Absolutely love this story. I think it’ll become a classic
The problem isnt what he did, its what he said; the 'I Lied". If you say 'Batman isnt going to let an opponent dictate terms of engagement," SOmeone will say 'Duh, Sun-Tzu." and some Art of war thing, and 'not interrupting an opponent committing an error'. The difference was in his dialogue, see the previous 'Hell Yeah' . I chaulk that one up to Clayface as Bats.
Excited for your mega video on the whole King run.
So Martha lost her son and started killing for fun? Is Martha Wayne supposed to be that weak? The Flashpoint scenario with them was always kind of strange. And she killed Alfred? Is that why he's okay with the main Alfred dying?
I'm sorry but after Gotham, the quality of this run took a nose dive, it doesn't help that Tom King almost ruined Pre 52 Wally West with that god awful Heroes in Crisis.
I think the reason why Thomas Wayne was able to take out the Bat family even when Bruce Wayne is more capable than Thomas is because in my opinion Bruce and the rest of the Bat family constantly holds back. So when the Bat family is discussing if them should kill Thomas or not, that's not a discussion for Thomas if the roles were in the reverse. Bruce taught the Bat family to never kill but Thomas is more willing and capable of doing that. So when the Bat family is thinking about morals, Thomas is thinking about doing whatever is necessary to win and survive.
The Reverse That makes zero sense, being more restrained should mean absolutely nothing here since there are about SEVEN people ganging up on him, and all of them are better at hand-to-hand combat than he is, and with his lack of skill in that regard, seriously that’s ACTUALLY why he used guns in Flashpoint, without them he couldn’t exactly take on muscular criminals, he should logically get his ass handed to him, even if they aren’t going for the kill, especially since they could just pin him down, rendering him no longer a threat. Him just beating all of them despite being outnumbered doesn’t make sense, they would overwhelm him with blows from multiple directions before he could even land a hit.
Ive got to respect Batman for his self control. I'd have killed Bane for breaking my back. If Bane killed the man who raised me, I honestly can't say what I might do to him, but it would be painful for both of us
I miss your videos from when you first started.
Beyond Omega Level: Great Evil Beast
Beyond Omega Level: Strange Visitor Superman
Beyond Omega Level: Monarch (DC)
They have always said Cassandra is Bruce equal or possible better when it comes to fighting, but thomas beat her and the whole bat family at the same time. I like tom king run overall but make it make sense. Also theres never been a single scenario in batman's history where Alfred's death didnt crush Bruce push him over the edge, so if they're not going to experiment with that then just bring alfred back otherwise his death is purposeless
Bane attacked an injured guy IN A STRAIGHTJACKET!?! Wow, I that's an impressive low he's reached.
U ever do a video on star wars comic's
It would be totally interesting if they did a super fathers short series
With Thomas Wayne and Jor-El similar to the super sons series with John Kent and Damien Wayne
Let me guess. There is a panel where Bane breaks his back