The History And Future Of The JHS Klon Centaur Replica
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Once upon a time, there was a great mythical creature called the Klon Centaur. His innards were never meant to be seen by mortal man, but then... there were a lot of clones. JHS cloned it as well. There's drama around all this, but Josh said if Bill ever started production on them again, we'd stop, and we did. But things are back in the realm of mystery, so what now?
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Not only have I been longing for an affordable JHS Klon, but a 2-in-1 Morning Glory/Klon would be my DREAM. Please do it, Josh! 🙌🏻
Came here to say the same thing ❤
But they're 2 different circuits
Yeah, and instead of the centaur with the bow/arrow - can we get 2 people on a tandem bicycle with the rear biker aiming a bow behind the tandem?
If you want to build the greatest dual drive pedal ever, then it’s a Klone/MG combo with toggle to switch the order, various clipping options on the MG and a bass cut on the Klone, where it starts at 0 and you cut from there. Then you can rest easy knowing that you have created the greatest combo drive and many angels will rejoice in synchronized harmony with every power chord struck upon the strings of a guitar running through thine pedal.
lf we're dreaming up pedals he needs to make maybe a vibe/fuzz/boost pedal with an external control pedal that can either be a wah or speed control on the vibe. Call it the JMHS.
I live in Boston and Bill lives in a town right on the outskirts of the city. Over the summer I visited a local music store that is dedicated entirely to pedals. The store merchant told me that Bill once called and vehemently requested that they stopped selling certain pedal brands that made klones. I was quite disgusted at this, as the thing I've always loved/respected about the guitar pedal world is the community amongst builders. One of the things that draws me to this channel is Josh's appreciation for ALL pedals/builders and he's not afraid to put a spotlight on his "competitors".
What Bill is doing is the complete opposite. I don't understand how he has time to yell at a local music store for simply trying to make a living (in what is already a pretty niche market), but he can't respond to the requests of so many people wanting to invest in his business. I've commented several times on his IG posts and sent several messages to him directly and he ignores everything. The fact that the KTR, a product made to be a affordable/mass produced alternative to the Centaur has now become unobtainable is laughable. As a gearhead, it sucks to come across something you'd love to own but you can't because the resell margins are way out of reach. That's why I respect guys like Paul Cochrane who makes an effort to get his product in the hands of the modern consumer. The Tim V3 is currently on my board and I absolutely love it.
With that in mind, I would absolutely love it if Josh did another run of the Klons. Ideally I would love a Morning Glory/Klon in one enclosure but I won't get ahead of myself lol. I'd take anything and I would greatly appreciate if you did this for the pedal loving community Josh 🙏🏾
I live in Boston too, just curious which store was it?
@@SinnetSongs Guitar Pedal Shoppe in Plymouth
@@itsnatesmith Definetly gonna have to check them out
And I am sure Bill provides the shop with plenty of KTR stock to sell
Rumor has it that Bill has lost it a bit, and has become quite the jerk.
A gold sparkle double barrel with a Morning Glory side and a Centaur side would be incredible.
^this
I think there would be too much competition for this. I already run an MG into a Tumnus Deluxe. Most guitarists have a Klone of some sort on their board. I think Josh shines when he does multi mode pedals and would love to see a 4 mode Klon Pedal.
THIS!
It’d be awesome!!! I’d order that one right away!
Silver Sparkle is my favorite on anything!
Here’s why I think you should do another Klon replica:
1) It’s a circuit that you clearly enjoy and you should be allowed to make products that make you happy. Especially since nobody can legally copyright a circuit
2) While I admire the fact that keeping a promise is important to you, by your own estimation, you’ve left possibly $5,000,000+ on the table for someone that won’t even return your phone calls. I don’t see any reason to keep a promise to someone that won’t show you respect in return.
3) Even though I don’t know much about Bill personally, it sounds like a lot of customers and pedal builders don’t enjoy doing business with him. By making your own version of the Klon, you’ll be giving your loyal fans an avenue to buy a pedal they like while supporting a company that they actually do believe in.
4) I think it goes without saying that the Klon is one of the best overdrive circuits ever. And Bill absolutely deserves credit for creating it. But, he’s never done a very good job of making it accessible to a broader audience. If anything, I’d say companies like Wampler, J. Rockett, MXR, Way Huge, and others have done the circuit a lot of good in that regard.
Bill is MIT stock, the man is smart and gentle but a nightmare to communicate and work with. and he is getting up there in age, which for people like that only makes them more insular and irritable. in a way he is protective of the design because even KTRs are demanding a lot of money, and the whole point of the KTR was to protect the rarity of the original Klon. he realizes he has something valuable in his approval of a circuit (much like you saw synth pioneers be protective of their name- dave smith rebuilt his empire on that alone, Alan pearlman only endorsed one 2600 copy, and that was a VST that impressed him) so he keeps his endorsement tight to his chest, perhaps as a inheritance for his family (the only time he brought the original horsy back was to help out a close friend) or simple arrogance. never meet him directly, but have meet plenty of people who have.
@Winged Yoshi - Well said! All of your points are right on the money. I especially like this one: "I don’t see any reason to keep a promise to someone that won’t show you respect in return."
Nailed it.
I think a morning glory/klon combo pedal would be amazing. Those are the two drives I’ve used for years anyway. At this point you have honored your promise.
Josh, I have 5 points for you.
1-I will not be offended as a customer. JHS fans will love it. JHS haters will hate it. I’m positive plenty of people will say Josh went back on his promise. I think they are wrong. The Klon is a different subject now than it was 8+ years ago. Bill is an unreliable builder. And even if he makes the thing, no one knows where the heck to buy them. And we all know they are not worth the cost they go for on the used market. Bill is also set for life - People will always pay $5,000+ for official Klons made by him, so the guy basically can print his own money.
2-I believe that circuit has entered the public domain, so to speak. Just like the Tube Screamer, the DOD250, the Big Muff, The Rat, and all the others you have already done clones of. Heck, it's almost as old as those pedals now. At this point it is just another category and topology for overdrive. Nowadays a new Klon-style overdrive is to be considered a new pedal, not a knock-off.
3-There will always be cheaper Klones than JHS can afford to make. So I think the best solution for both business and the ethical dilemma you brought up is to create your own twist on the Klon. I think the market needs way more of these anyway because the Klon is not a perfect circuit and most companies just make straight clones.
4-The other thing to think about is that a JHS take on the Klon will be available on Sweetwater, Sam Ash and guitar center. So even if there is some boutique builder doing a similar thing to you, you will be making something that is actually more easily accessible to people - and to touring bands who need to be able to stop at a store and buy a replacement after some accident leaves them with a broken pedal.
5-My personal suggestions:
a: I’d like the double-pot thing on the Klon to be separated. That way you can control the blend and the gain independently.
b: Putting an EP style boost before the Klon sounds incredible and allows you to increase a little low-end and decrease the headroom to have more gain. With a quiet guitar, the Klon is unusable without a booster before it. So I’d also love to see that included as an Input level knob.
I’ve built Klon Clones with a clean blend. It’s a cool effect, and you can get close to the original dual gang pot function by setting the clean and gain knobs in the opposite/reverse of the other.
#5 sounds great
All solid points, esp. the last. I would maybe add and mid-gain toggle footswitch that could turn it into a TS-like overdrive circuit at the ppush of a button. 2 for 1.
You may possibly want to take a look at the Lichtlaerm Audio Aquaria. Both with regards to the separate clean and gain as well as the switchable EQ on top.
For point 5a - the pretty relatively cheap EHX Bass Soul Food does this KINDA - as far as I can tell, it's still double pot for gain but it adds a blend.
I’d love to see a JHS spin on one. Especially in a 2in1 pedal setup like the double barrel.
What he said ^^^^
You’re clear in our book. As for possible names:
Klonsai (if multimod)
Angry Centaur
Centaur’s Glory (if double barreled with a MG)
I built a 2-in-1 MG into a Klon that I called the Glorious Man Horse. It has a reverse centaur on it 😂
One vote for Klonsai 😃👍
I think a multimod pedal would have to be called a Klonoisseur
But I agree with Josh in the video that such a pedal would be unnecessary. Although I think he missed the point of the question he was responding to when he said it.
a JHS switchable dual Klon - Timmy would be rad
+1 for Angry Centaur
Josh you kept your word, respect! Looking at Bill's couldn't-care-less attitude towards his customers, no communication and total confusion as to product or availability, he has no right to hold you any longer to your agreement. Just go for it! Keep the price fair for your design and complexity and you'll get your new factory and employee security! Good luck from Norfolk, England!
Josh I think you should absolutely make a klon klone. The level of transparency and honesty in this video and many of your others is super inspiring. You stopped making them on your original agreement but he’s not making them and as you said that’s his choice. You kept your word and now it’s almost a decade later.
Or an evolution of it, somewhat like an own circuit, not a simple copy.
Do it. I’d love a JHS take. A bonsai or ratpack multi would kill it. You honored your word, the agreement is complete and it’s time to move on.
OK I’ll be at the side. I want to buy a clone, and I would like to buy one from JHS
It’s simple I like you guys I have the fuzz from the three series and it’s bad ass so we’re going down this road man build them we will buy them
You stayed true to your work while the premises still applied. Now it’s time to make that Klon and listen to your team, your audience and your inner self. Pedal name suggestion: Predicament
Please, Josh, make one! You've made it very clear how much you love the circuit and you've shown more than enough loyalty and integrity in your business. And you're going to do it for all the right reasons. Just give it your own little spin and everyone will be happy.
Josh, you are the only company owner that showcases other brand producs with such passion and praise. I can't think any other business owner who does this! By doing this you've obviously helped to sell their producst in great numbers so I think it's absolutely fair to you to make something for you and your business now! Love you guys and love the show! Best regards from Poland!
The rising tide lifts all boats! Great job Josh! If you do a klon make it a smaller foot print, please?
Not the only one !
Wampler does it too.
I think so long as Bill is not producing a pedal with the Klon circuit, a JHS “Klone” would would not be reneging your word. And bringing a fresh spin, as only you can, to the klommunity would be really exciting. I love the idea of a 2-in-1 with a Morning Glory or another dirt circuit. Keep up the good work, good sir.
Coming in late but very glad you are making the kit. Brilliant truly. You are a pedal builder and creator. Create! appreciate your integrity, honesty and JHS pedals. Look forward to building one. Thanks Josh and JHS team.
Definitely we need 3 series JHS clone of Klon 🔥
You can make a special Christmas edition of a pedal, and name in "Santaur" 🤪
Josh, my good man. As one who is a passive observer in the TH-cam sphere I felt compelled to join in with my fellow pedal nerds and urge you to let your passion be your guiding star.
Your promise is more than fulfilled and if the man cannot make himself available to you to discuss a promise kept for 8+ years then your due has been over-payed, just like everything Bill has produced...
I'm certain JHS will produce something that will stand out in a saturated market, and I for one will be in line to purchase your Klone/Morning Glory 2in1 pedal 😉❤️
I second the 2in1 Morning Glory/Klone idea
Yes, tbh sounds like Bill was doing classic intimidation tactics to scare a small player when he called to ask to stop making it. You are a real stand up guy and kept to your word. You deserve to feed your employees, and I would definitely jump on buying your version!
Politely asking someone to respect your intellectual property is "classic intimidation tactics?" Ok.
@@sagittated "intellectual property"? If that was the case, there'd be 0 clones of anything.
We all want a JHS Klon version ! Can't wait for it .
Do it. Stack it w/ the Morning Glory as a dual pedal (dbl barrel enclosure w/ Gold sparkle as others have mentioned) and call it “Glory to Klon”. It’s an original combo, would sound awesome, and I’d love to see/hear that on my pedal board. Nuff said. (and then I edit 2-3x…🤦♂️🤷♂️🤘🎸)
The “Jhs special”
What I love about JHS is that they not only make their own original pedals, but they also celebrate the work of others. I bought the Pack Rat as much for the tone as for the way it honored the history of a great pedal. Do it, Josh. Please.
Hey Josh! @JHSPedals
Huge fan of your pedals and your clones!
In terms of keeping your word you told Bill that you would stop making your current pedal once he started making his again.
And you did that. Done.
Starting to make them again after you gave him 8 years to have open space from you in the market is more than fair. Especially because he stopped making the KTR continuously. The run he did was limited and you gave space for that. Which is super awesome and great business community ethics. I love your heart for having high integrity and keeping to your word.
At the end of the day. You have to be the one to answer to yourself about how you interpret your promise and success or failure of the product shouldn’t be the gauge of how you justify your choices. Which I know, you know.
What I would do is continue to invite him to partner with you as you make the pedal and work some deal like what Analog man did with MXR and the duke. V1 would be the pre partner model. V2 you release if he decides to partner. Find a way to red remote your favorite preset on the V2.
You partnering with him would be better for both of you. And it’s honoring to him and what he has done. It gives him a piece of market share that he would otherwise not be apart of if you did it without him.
The story would set the pedal apart from everyone else’s Klon clone. And that’s also really important for the future success of a product.
Love you and your team. Blessing!!!
Love this!!! You are totally right on Bluelizzard88!
Dude getting Josh’s favorite setting on a red remote or saving your own would be legit.
Heck maybe do something like Jet pedals and see if you can midi it!
Such high respect for you, Josh. Like, this is the reason I will continue to support and promote JHS: your integrity, both as a person and as a business owner. Instead of giving answers, I’ll throw out some questions to think about:
1) Have you in good faith, beyond any shadow of doubt, made strong effort to get in touch with Bill to have this conversation directly with him?
2) What do your closest friends, family, community, and personal mentors think is the right decision for you? (Your customers are important, but we’re pretty far down on the ladder of people who can gauge your integrity.)
3) Is there any possible way to modify his circuit in such a way that it is substantially different in either the current marketplace or primary function? That is, not “just a clone”, but perhaps a strong improvement, or that your modified circuit would perform in a significantly different way such that the market share of your pedal is in a different space tone/function-wise? (You always say that folks use a Klon as a clean boost, when really it should be driven hard - is that something you could modify to be the default?)
Great points, all. I suspect that the answer to #1 is yes, but not quite. It is clear that Bill is not an easy person to get in touch with, and his privacy should be respected. But nothing prevents Josh from drafting a heartfelt letter or asking an intermediary to broker a conversation. That would indeed support the good faith argument.
👍🏻
Hi Josh, I'm an ageing wannabe guitarist from Australia. I love all your content. Regarding your promise, I think you've well and truly honoured it. Time to build another.
You asked what people would like to see built. I don't even know if it's a thing but I'd love to see a Klon with a blend control, so that you can blend your dry signal in.
Thanks again for your invaluable contribution to the world of signal processing. Cheers from Oz.
"We have all the pedals we ever need, but that's not the point." Pure brilliance. And it applies to so many other things. Thanks for the quote. 🙂
I’m %100 behind you doing this. Love the 2in1 idea!
Bill getting mad at Klones is like if Saab got mad at other car manufacturers for putting turbo chargers into cars. I'm not a pedal scientist, but I don't think Bill invented the dual gang pot. Build it and they will come, Josh!
That comparison isn't even close to the same thing. You mean Saab couldn't be mad if another company copied their car entirely. From inside out. All of it. Same grille, taillights, body panels, driveteiqn, everything.
@@J.C... a) Josh has long story of copying pedals
b) Mackie vs Behringer case stated that neither the schematics nor even the pcb layout are the subject of intellectual property.
@@J.C... Most Klones are not entirely the same. Different enclosures, different diodes, different ICs, etc.
@@J.C... Also, Saab doesn't make cars anymore, so they don't have a reason to get mad.
Yes dude, yes.
I imagine a 3-series Centaur (with some gain/clipping variation toggle) would be fun. Ethically, I think JHS is in the clear to make a version of the Klon Centaur and the general public should be ok with it, too.
I second this. As many klones that are out, how about a $99 version we can trust to sound correct with a toggle for a jhs mod. Wonder how the profit off the 3 series is compared to higher cost pedals.
I can't believe I almost tuned out before you used the KTR as a slide. Absolutely brilliant.
You should definitely make a Klone. You kept your word. The scenario has completely changed, and a MG + Klon combo would be a no brainer. Even a regular, non-combo Klon with the gain and blend knob separately would be 🔥
Absolutely you should. I have a KTR but would love to hear what you do with one. It was completely honorable to not make them while he did but that didn’t stop anyone else. You’re a good egg, Josh.
Josh, you are one of if not the top pedal maker in the game. I feel you represent us the community, as you were one of us first and foremost. You haven’t lost your vision or been blinded by greed.
That said, from a business angle, you are leaving money on the table. The community would likely trust and revere your take on a Klon in higher regards than the competition and they would sell like the silver sky, and likely break the internet upon release. Your further ideas of combing it in a duo is awesome. This would likely add demand that would allow you to higher more employees, and reinvest capital into your business allowing for new creative future paths for JHS. It’s literally in the Helix…and Josh can’t make one? Your verbal contract was not written nor did it have terms. We ARE in a different era. I think you could write him a letter or whatever and explain why you’ve decided to re-enter the Klon market if it give you peace of mind. Make a voting poll if you’d like too. When you do make one, add your flair to it. Make it better. It will be awesome.
I would LOVE a 2-in-1 pedal of a Morning Glory and a Centaur, and keep the switchable order like the Double Barrel. A Centaur-Moonshine pedal would be awesome too!
The world needs a new JHS Klon Clone. You said you'd stop when he started again; you didn't say you'd stop forever.
Your company and channel are at such a high caliber due to all of these qualities that you exhibit..forthrightness, creativity, enthusiasm and industriousness...I appreciate as a customer hearing a business head struggle with an ethical conundrum...I think personally you have all the right in the world to innovate how you see fit
In short, yes. One of the key things that sticks for me is how different the market is now. A huge number of people were added to the guitar playing ranks over past few years, and many (like me) picked it back up again. The Klon sound is new to many of us. Speaking for myself, I'm pretty sure I want to explore that sound. If I wanted to buy a Klon right now I'd look at the market and pick one from a company I liked. I like and trust JHS, the products and the company, so I would come to you first. Also a factor: I believe that you would make it unique in the market (pair it with a morning glory, etc), your own take. Perhaps that helps with the ethical dilemma. The business argument is already made, it's a profitable direction, you said so yourself. Finally, I think you/JHS have a unique place in the pedal world. Your work documenting the history of pedals, creating new and unique products, promoting other company's products-you've earned some good karma in the industry. I think it's fair to say that JHS operates responsibly in the pedal ecosystem. I trust that you would approach this responsibly, and the community would be better for it. I vote yes. (edit: also, maybe don't refer to it as "another Klon"-maybe "a new Klon?")
Maybe Bill would be interested in partnering with you, the same way Paul Cochrane did with the MXR Timmy and Analog Mike did with the MXR Duke of Tone? That would be super cool!
Maybe make a “multi-Klon” pedal, with nine different “klon” settings, like you did with the pack rat & the bonsai. Those are the two most fun pedals I own. Thanks again for the colourbox, too!
You answered your own question - yes, if you are excited about making a cool Klon variant, you should go for it. You have honored your agreement many times over.
I appreciate the openness and I enjoy your channel and the light hearted yet expert-informative content as much as your pedals.
JHS should make one, yes. And yes, JHS should make a spin on it. A 2 in 1 might be great, something with a better form factor for small boards would be nice.
I’d love to see a double pedal with the Klon circuit. A Morning Glory /Klon would be awesome. A modded Klon or something like that. Something with an original spin.
As a business decision a straight up Jhs copy alone would be a big seller.
FYI people are going say you lied because people suck but the real fans will love it
First off, I have nothing but respect for you for keeping it real and sharing your inward struggle on the thought of making a klon style pedal. It really is something that most people wouldn’t think twice about, but the fact that you left so much money on the table just shows you really are made of different(better?) stuff.
Second, I just wanted to pose this thought:
I think there is a big difference between utilizing a topology to showcase a creative expression, and cloning a pedal.
What you were making from 2009-2014 was something people could access to fill the space they’d wished a klon centaur would go, because they weren’t being produced. It was as similar as it could be(probably. I haven’t owned or played one.)
But fast forward to today, there is an almost unlimited number of options from creators who utilized a topology to create something brand new, and the world is a better place for it.
And there are also clones of those pedals.
I think at the end of the day, you can keep your promise to Bill, and create a new pedal based on the Klon.
Don’t make a clone(wouldn’t expect you to.) Make something new. Something fun and exciting and different(wouldn’t expect anything less from y’all anyway) I think the OBNE fault is the perfect example of this. I think they even said no one noticed it was a klon topology until you pointed it out in your video 😂
Bill Finnegan isn’t loosing out on sales because you make a new pedal. He can sell everything he makes, and there is no end to the amount of people willing to pay for what he makes. I think the second hand market value of the klon proves that. And I don’t think your promise to him should cap your creativity, and if that is Bill’s expectation, it’s an unfair one.
Anyway. This is just my opinion. I’m sure there are a legion of angles it can be seen from, but this was mine.
I really love everything y’all put out. From the pedals, to the videos, to the social content. Y’all keep up the good work, and keep blocking out the haters.
Couldn't agree more...
I was trying to figure out the point of the "build a Klon" concept, but now, after seeing this and learning of your promise, I'm find it is pure genius. I am buying one just for your integrity and the colectability of it.
Id love to see a KLON style in the format of the morning glory. w a selector or toggle switch that would move us between a Klassic Klone and a JHS mod setting
All I'm going to say, my dream is having a klone + morning glory combo. When you play your "signature" gain section in one of yours pedalboard videos it was life changing for me. Whatever you do, love your company Josh!
This would be amazing.
youre one patch cable away from ur dream coming true lol jk jk
Ceriatone Horsebreaker
First I want to tell you how much I respect you as a business owner. Your commitment to your brand and your employees is heart warming and refreshing in this social and economic climate. The fact that you wrestle with this decision is a true test auto your character as a human being, and that is amazing these days. Secondly I’ll say this, follow your heart and make things that you, yourself, love knowing that’s thousands of us feel the same way. Honestly, I don’t think there’s another pedal builder out there who’s modern interpretation would interest me more than yours, and I’d be honored to have a chance to own one!
I'm from Mexico, I really admire all the work that goes into creating something and thanks to them giving work. Personally I don't have any JHS pedal, but I hope to have one soon, but I do see reviews of pedals, sounds and I feel that Josh has something special for continuing to deliver special sounds for all of us who like to play an instrument.
I agree that they build a Klon
I think this is one of the coolest JHS stories and speaks to the integrity of the company. My opinion is that you don’t need to make a klon and it’s better to keep your integrity, which is vital to your brand.
That said, if you did to decide one, I think that everyone would totally understand. I just think it’s a cool story that adds to your legend and you should keep it alive.
(I'm late to the party but here's my 2-cents.) To Josh and the JHS folks: I think you should definitely build a JHS version of a Klon. If Finnegan wanted to make money he could start building Klons again, but it doesn't sound he's going to be doing that or doesn't want to do that. You stopped building a Klon Clone (a Klone?) when he asked you to, which is very cool. It shows you have serious integrity, which you admit, however, does not always equate to good business sense or acumen. But, with that said, things have changed since you stopped building Klones and everyone and their grandmother is building them now. Hell, Finnegan won't even call you back. The pedal world has changed since then. JHS makes awesome pedals and your team would do an amazing job. I really like your idea making your Klon version be *FUN* and the idea of a dual pedal would be super cool. A Klon paired with a Morning Glory - killer. So, don't feel bad about "going against your word" with Finnegan. That guy just sounds like he's a stick in the mud and he won't even call you back?? What does that say about him? I say, get over any guilt you may have, follow your bliss, and go for it! A JHS Klon would be great for your business, great for your employees, and great for the guitar community. To me, it seems like a no-brainer.
You can tell he thinks about this a lot and he really cares. I think his take on a Klon would be great. He probably already knows exactly how he wants to do it.
I would love a Klon from JHS, add some fun stuff to it and make it your own though, that's part of what we love about JHS pedals!
Josh, you have kept your word for a long time and never really had to do what you did and say you would stop. It was gracious of you considering you had a good product that people wanted and as you said could have made a lot of money for the company. In my opinion you have gone above and beyond and should not feel bad at all if you decide to make a new one.
I've never used a JHS pedal. I'm a Strymon connoisseur but after seeing this I totally want to try out all your distortions simply because I can see how much of a good personality you are. I think you've gone above and beyond a good faith effort to hold to your word as well as try and help Bill out by helping to produce his pedal. I think you're free from that obligation at this point. Would I find REALLY useful is not one Klon pedal ... but a housing that has multiple different drive types (ie dual/tri) ... say a tubescreamer channel/klon channel dual drive (or whatever drives that makes sense) that can be selected separately/together but also each has a send/receive that you can plug into a looper to select which one you want or both together. So what I mean by multiple send/receives is like the Crazy Tube Circuits Unobtanium. Each is can be selected separately via a looper if you want (or stacked). This kind of setup into looper is so convenient on my board. So maybe it's a bigger enclosure but because it represents multiple pedals in the long run it frees up space on my board. But I would make it separate "famous" pedal options. Hence my thought of tubescreamer/klon/ drive channels.
All things considered, I think only JHS has the knowledge and talent to preserve the history of the klon. Go for it Josh.
Yes! Do it. Also, a triple pedal would be awesome. Morning Glory into Tube Screamer into Centaur.
I would buy a JHS klon/morning glory combo in a heartbeat. I love the MG and it never leaves my board. You kept your word and stopped. He is not producing any significant quantity and has shown a long pattern of flakiness. The "horse" has left the barn with how many companies clone that pedal now. I believe you have earned your freedom.
You’re definitely clear, you were good to your word when it mattered- and as you’ve said trying to get hold of Bill is impossible but I’m sure you’ve tried. The time has now passed and it’s kind of like the Statute of Limitations.
I’d love to see a 3 series simply titled “Klone” 😂
bingo!
$99 JHS 3 series Klon Klone. Hellz yes.
Exactly. Josh kept to his word when it mattered. At this point there is no reason not to make one. I’m sure he would like to speak to Bill about it but hey, what can you do.
I will buy that Klone 😁
Pedal sounds great Josh! Especially love the as a boost sound when you had great tone to start with (the 5-8 ish minutes mark)
Josh,
I am a huge fan of your pedals and how you teach the history of and the electronics behind pedals. I appreciate that you are a person of your word. I vote yes especially on a Morning Glory / Klon double pedal, and here’s why. 1. Your phone calls not being returned by Bill showing no respect to you or the promise you made him. 2. Bill is not currently producing his Klon pedal making it available to the pedal market. Until conditions change I do not see where you’re obligated to continue not making a Klon clone joining all the other companies that are already making a Klon clone. Bill should get credit for creating the circuit but the circuit is not copyrighted. I support you in your decision.
I REALLY like the idea of combining a Morning Glory with a Klon Clone into one package a la Double Barrel/Sweet Tea. I have something like this with Way Huge's version (Conspiracy Theory) and your Morning Glory. You could call it The Birthright.
A Morning Glory+Klon double pedal (with switchable order) would be ace. Do it.
Give him a choice.
1. Respond to you and say that he doesn’t want you to make a clone or give his approval.
2. If he doesn’t respond make the choice that would sit best with your conscience.
3. Put the word out everywhere that you want to do a collaboration with him and make a compact version with new modern options that can take over where his work left off and let your pedal be a huge tribute to him! 😊
Absolutely second this.
Do it!
If Klon truly had an issue with centaur clones, they could easily hire Traxton Sinclair to take a break from Night Riders and issue a bunch of cease and desists.
Josh - much love to you and the team! Onward and upward!
I know this is a few months late, but I love the JHS aesthetic and enclosures y’all use. It would be awesome to see K-style circuit in one of those, especially if you did some mods to it.
Anyone have any information on a company called "Vintage Analog Effects" out of Massachusetts? I have a Klone from this defunct company but have noooooo idea of the year they were being produced. Any assistance would be super.
To this issue? Josh, I appreciate your integrity and your desire to hold to your true self and values. I think that you have done more for other pedal companies than most of them have for themselves. I agree that it is just a circuit and all pedal builders including Bill have stood on the shoulders of discovery and exploration of their predecessors. Each new pedal or design, closely related or not, is homage to their work and ingenuity. I can empathize with your quandary, and regardless of your decision, there will be criticisms from some... I don't envy that. But at the end of the day it is what brings you the most peace.
Josh, you have given him every opportunity to respond. The world is going through something crazy right now, and I think it would be a nice moral boost to see a beloved company put out a fun new take on a beloved pedal. If he finally contacts you about it then you can ask about taking up his production of the KTR in addition to what you make. We fully support you ❤
-Sam Deal
I would love to see the JHS Klon in a 2-in-1!
In my mind, Klon with a twist is a new pedal. Therefore keeping your word. We all stand on the shoulders of giants to some degree.
First off, as you said its usually uncomfortable for people to talk about money. You as a company owner should not ever feel morally in the wrong for making an intelligent business decision, and people who call it greed either have not run a business or are simply the internet angry person who likes to create a problem to attack...or simply has a different view which is all fine. But at the end of the day this is your business decision.
Now, for the personal aspect of it, I understand its difficult especially when you have made a promise and do not want to break your word. I respect your decisions in this matter fully from start to now and I can not say I know how I would handle the situation. Nothing but high respect.
With that being said, you have every right to enter an already saturated specific portion of the already saturated market of pedals. You have proven and developed yourself as a builder and always find ways to create unique products that stand out and attract customers (customers don't buy things, people do). I am sure this would be no different and all I have seen is a resounding "YES" to your question.
All of this to say, I support the decision to make your own klon approach (especially a unique take, but still exact replicas are always awesome), but more important than my support is that you make the decision that sits right with you. You have a strong moral compass and clearly express genuine concern in the matter and this has drastically helped to develop your consumer base (including myself) and you should continue to act accordingly knowing you will have support regardless of the decision you make. You have earned that trust and respect!
Have you noticed how amazing guitarrist Josh is?
Didn't catch this live. But at this point I think you should go for it. I especially love the idea of a Klon/Morning Glory combo!
You mean like the Ceriatone Horsebreaker ?
I’d love to see a Morning Glory/Klon or your take on the circuit. I feel the original spirit of your deal was so Bill could build them again and he did. Now as you noted there’s loads of clones and take on the circuit, it’s a different a world. Build what pedals make you happy!
Morning glory, flick a switch its a Klon all in one box. My question though....how much different is it really?
@@doylestownhuskies9624 I’d love to get a red-remote switch for my Morning Glory because it mostly gets used like Josh sets his, as an always on. The higher gain setting is sweet and I think more “transparent” than the Klon also sounds awesome the way Josh sets his, cranked. But I do think you’re right, they are similar in function and the type of overdrive they’re capable of. I also have a Wilson Effects Black Tooth Grin, similar to the Morning Glory and they sound great stacked, I love stacking medium gain overdrives.
I appreciate that you've kept your word. Personally, I feel like the statute of limitations on that agreement has passed considering others have moved passed it without a replicated response from the original Klon creator. I say go for it.
I would love to put in a vote for a Klon/Morning Glory double. That would be AMAZING.
Go for it. As a JHS user I would love to have the chance to buy a Klon from this trustworthy company
I'm in for the 2-in-1 Klon and Morning Glory camp. Bring it on!
I think you've held up your end for more than long enough, especially given the current landscape. Do it, and do it with a clear conscience. Your obligation to your passion, you're customers, and your business are most important at this point. Your honesty and integrity is obvious to any reasonable, thinking person who follows you. Keep doing what you're doing. You bring a lot of joy and inspiration to a lot of people. Rock on Josh!
You should make a Klon Clone. As far as bills no response in 8 years
,I am pretty sure he is out of the pedal game and non-existent now.
Yes, you should. I tried getting a new-in-box KTR for 18 months before I finally purchased a Decibelics Golden Horse (lovely pedal, by the way). Having your vision for the circuit on the market doesn’t oversaturate it, it simply gives all of us another flavor to sample.
I’m chiming in a little late. I just now saw this, so this is what I say: Josh, you made a Gentlemans agreement. And you have stood by this agreement for nine years. I think you should start working now and ask for the guys blessing. At the 10 year mark I think you should do it ever you want. It’s been 10 years that’s long enough. Good on ya.
Yes, make another. I’d love a clone/morning glory twin pedal. Rush me now!
I’m not sure how anyone could further improve upon the wampler tumnus deluxe (klon clone). That pedal’s freaking amazing. Love the mid/scoop boost on there. Can’t decide if I want to use it as a lead boost or a chugging rhythm tone. Works awesome for both. Really versatile.
To answer your question though, it sounds like it would be fine if you started making those again if he’s not that communicative, and it’s already a widely produced circuit. You’re a good dude for at least caring about the ethics of it. Make it unique somehow though, not just a straight clone.
MXR Sugar Drive is also a very good take on it. Some really good ones out there.
Please make one! I would love this as a player, and the 2 in 1 idea sounds amazing too!
I think you should make a JHS Klon. You’ve waited long enough and kept your word. I would buy one, maybe two.
Hello Josh. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and ethical concerns. You consistently show respect for your peers and competitors. When you were the first to offer a Klon sounding device you acceded to a request from the original maker. Since that time there have been no more Klons from that maker and his own clone, the KTR is hard to find and never at a fair price for what it is. Here at the end of 2022, you may be the last company to get on board in making a Klon sounding pedal. You have, in my opinion as a businessperson, more than fulfilled your commitment and to continue to stand behind a commitment made irrelevant by the rest of the market does your business and your employees a disservice. If you decide to make a Klon sounding device the marketplace will determine if it is successful. By making such a pedal you are not forcing anyone to buy one. If you choose to offer one in the midst of myriad other offerings some decent and some utter garbage, that is a business decision that you make and the success or not of it is the same risk that others take. A circuit cannot be patented nor can a sound. It is my opinion that you should build a JHS pedal that delivers the sound of a Klon and I do believe that it will enjoy success. I wish you and your team great success whatever you decide
You're an honorable man and have been true to your word. My feelings is that I'd reach out via e-mail 1 last time and let him know that you intend to go back into production of your own version since he's out of production again out of respect. I wouldn't worry about taking money out of his pocket. With all the clones on the market, people are still buying the OG Centaur and KTR for stupid money, and if he goes back into production, people will still buy his for stupid money. Even if he made affordable versions again, players that bought clones would still buy the new Klon pedals just to say, "I've got a REAL Klon". In the time being, people like the spins you put on classic pedals and would love to have both.
2 in 1 or a unique feature set would be awesome. I don’t see anything wrong with you making one. You did more than keep your word.
I am more excited about the prospect of you making a Klone than I would be of owning an original. I'd love to hear your spin on it!
Honestly as a customer of yours, I respect you a lot for how you’ve chosen to run your company this far. Your integrity, inclusivity, and passion for the guitar pedal industry and its history is amazing. That being said, you will not lose any of my respect if you choose to put another clone out.
Honestly, if you can knock my current klone off my board you will have earned even more respect for what that’s worth 🤘🏻😜
Finally got to hear this episode, I think at the time you made the agreement, you did the right thing since you have often spoke about the comraderie of pedal builders at that time. At this point there's nothing wrong w moving forward. Instimpled about you company because I Google search for "Rhythm Guitar Pedal Board" and pedals became my pandemic obsession! You make pedals accessible for everyone though your sharing of pedal knowledge yes, but especially with the 3 series!!! Bravo! Bill makes his 1 pedal accessible to virtually no one. That's some Howard Hughes vibes there ..
One idea I had was to go ahead and announce that you going to do it, with a release date, 10 years after your initial agreement. In theory that would(?) give Bill time to get his shit together (if he cares to) to release his KTR V2. The ball would be in his court. And loyal JHS fans would Love /Hate / Love the suspense. (Almost typed Love Spit Love*, yes, I am your target market).
*Their guitarist was amazing!
It would be cool to have your version on the scene, and see what your take on it would be. If it turns out to be a fuzz centaur or a rat centaur then the world would be a better place 😂. Also your take on the oc2 would be pretty cool too!
Or like Josh said in the video, Morning Glory/Klone double pedal
If you're modding/building or know someone who can do it for, try some BAT41 diodes in the clipping section for a very compressed, fuzzy version!
Josh is a fun guitar player to watch - he picks nice chord voicings.
Right!? I go hear when I get sick of blues guitar demos in TH-cam 🤣
No the agreement is void as of now! Do 2, a true to the original and really exciting version.
Idiotbox Han-Taun will do that
The wampler tumnus deluxe has a switch for extra drive and a mid scoop/boost knob, great for chug.
@@TonyTrupp Cool
I just recently picked up a morning glory and was thinking it would be amazing if JHS made something Klon-ish to stack with it. I love the clarity of the morning glory!
This! A Klon and MG combo would be killer. I think a 3 in one with a MG,Klon and Angry Charlie variant. You just need that one pedal! I could see a fun spin on it. I have returned some JHS pedals, but the ones I kept are life pedals. I’d buy my first Klon from JHS!
You're a great businessman. You've grown a company and assembled such a team that it gives inspiration to anyone working towards the American Dream. The reasons you want to make this pedal are all valid and respectable. You have my support in this. Thanks for everything.
Got my first Klon for $350.00 bucks & love it. Bought a JHS Klone for 800.00. & love it. Bought the KTR for $275.00 & sold it. I’d be a player for another JHS Klone & I’d love to see a little spin on it. It’s a shame Bill is out of touch. He’s a wise person & possibly the smartest thing he could ever do is collaborate with you, if you were willing to collaborate.
I think you are in a great position to do something interesting with this circuit. Your take on the klon as a drive and not simply a boost is unique. If you used your red-remote gain boost idea on a klon circuit, you would be offering both. As for the ethics, you made room for him on the market, he took that space and then relinquished it. You're good to go.
I'm not sure if it's possible economically, but it would be great if there was a three series Klon.
I know this is an old episode now, but yes, make the Klon. Please. A Morning Glory/Klon combo would be amazing. I understand the hangup with your previous deal, but I think the statute of limitations has long since passed on that 😆
The answer is yes, and we trust in your passion and knowledge to do a exquisite work, but this one needs to be special, a favorite one, beautiful art work, and keep it simple. 3 knobs. Regards from México
Ethically in my opinion you’re definitely in the clear. You kept your word long after everyone else jumped into making their klones. And it’s a solid business move to help secure your employees’ jobs. Go for it.
You should do it because it would be something different. The Bonsai or Rat Pack are love letters to a whole class of pedals. IDK if Klons have enough history to be that varied, but I know you could do something unique. Do it.