MAGNETIC LAUNCH SYSTEMS 2: Linear Inductive Motors and how they work
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- Welcome the Ryan the ride mechanic channel. Im Ryan the ride mechanic
How are you doing today
Im excited to be doing another video in segment all about electric launch rides and how they operate.
So I want to dive right in, today Im going to be talking about linear induction motors and drive, and what makes them tick.
I’ll be coveting some basic theory of operation.
A brief history, some examples, and drive function and theory.
Please excuse the short format, this videos are not met for people with advanced knowledge in inductive motors, this is. For the average person starting with little to no knowledge. The examples I use can be far off of the actual science behind the drive in order to communicate this to everyone.
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This is the easiest to understand explanation I've seen for how LIMs work--thank you!
Love the video. Operated Steel Venom (Valleyfair - Intamin Impulse) years ago and it was fun talking to people like this about how it works. Would love to see more details on the control systems for it, and I am sure people would love to know about the light curtains the ride uses in the station area for safety. Keep up the great videos Ryan! Also to note, I have a couple pictures of the cabinets open in the utility building showing some of the switches and PLC if you'd like them. :) I can also talk about operational procedures for them too. Like quick stop recovery and weird things like never E-stopping the ride unless you have everyone off. (Since you need power to release harnesses.)
Thank you. Your Honest opinion, is it too long? I’m uncertain where people’s threshold is. I watch most videos as background at work haha. So it doesn’t matter if it’s long to me.
@@ryantheridemechanictake a look at your audience retention in youtube studio! if a lot of people are leaving throughout the video then maybe you could benefit from making it a little snappier but if people are staying engaged then it’s fine. though keep in mind that it is normal for people to click off and you shouldn’t expect everyone to make it to the end
@@GavHern thank you so much! Very helpful.
@@ryantheridemechanic I agree with GavHern, that tool should give a good idea for other users. For me, I love the details so length was fine for me.
Love the longer format and deep dive into the technology. Please do more like this, it may be a niche audience, but at this point it is solely YOUR niche audience. Think you might get into doing one on LSMs?
I plan on releasing that video next Friday
this stuff isn't boring. I am geeking out on it. lol
Always wondered exactly what was producing the sound and how. Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Your welcome.
man i know nothing about electricity yet i still find this very interesting. Thank you.
Always time to learn! Just don’t touch it!!
Awesome explanation. No one is doing what you are with these videos. Keep up the good work, once the coaster community becomes aware of your videos, I think you will get a huge bump. I wish you well. Thanks! I was talking to a Kingda Ka tech on a private tour they did a couple years ago and he said that their system uses the weight of the last train to calculate the force for the next train. He laughed and said you want to get on the next train after a train full of fat people! It's obviously a hydraulic cable launch, not an LIM but I thought that was really interesting. It is mind blowing how much equipment is needed to run that thing. It's a huge building that looks like a power plant.
Thank you so much for the kind words!
I can't imagine the care one has to go through to design and build something like this... 5000 Amps at 1000 Volts is nothing to mess around with! I would NOT want to short THAT out! Great video, Ryan. Thank you!
Yea it makes you think twice when you have to get in those cabinets.
Thanks Ryan! Nice explanation! Dont worry about the tele prompter. Its totally appropriate the way you present these topics.
Thank you
Thank you! I enjoy all the technical things about roller coasters you put out!
So glad! Enjoy
You know you are a huge nerd when you can pick up insight into why LIM's produce particular sounds at different points of operation like launching and braking. Love the inclusion of more coaster footage being able to hear the sound for ourselves. Keep up the great work!
Thank you
This really hits the right buttons with me. As an engineer I was always most interested in Electronics. Love the video, was kinda bummed it was over that fast.
Thank you. I was worried for people like yourself it would be too under - simplified. But I need to get the info out to everyone.
@@ryantheridemechanic Simplified yes, but not too much. I really enjoy instructing interns with my knowlegde so I might be used to it.
I’ve tried to learn about LIM/LSM motors on my own but there is only so much I can comprehend on my own without someone explaining it-thank you so much!!! It especially helps when you have the visuals up as you explain the concept; that’s just good teaching right there! Well done 👏 👏 👏
Thank you. It’s hard to find visuals that represent what I’m describing. Most pre made visuals (although scientifically correct,) would make the explanation even more confusing to people.
Great video! It wasn't too long for me!
Dude. I couldn't not subscribe after the way you described how linear induction works. That will forever change the way I think when I get on a roller coaster loll
Apparently lightning rod at dollywood had issues with the gap between the LSMs and the train fins. Because the track and supports were made of a lot of wood, they would warp and move too much for the fin to stay within the tolerances.
Yea I can’t imagine trying to place Thai equipment on wood.
We have an impulse coaster in my home park (Screaming Condor at LeoFoo Village). Based on my observations, the maintenance crew often paint those induction fins into red color. I don’t know why they are doing that until I asked my friend who’s a ride operator there.
He said that they’ll see whether those red paint is worn out, so that they can make sure those induction fins are not contact with the stators after operations.
And I think this is really clever!!
Yes! Some times the stator is painted to determine if an impact to train is happening.
I love this video, this is such a great explanation of something I've been interesting in for a while. Thanks for making such amazing and informative videos!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for going into how that drive circuit distributes power, it’s cool that it’s a common power supply and the motors just switch in and out as the train comes to that motor segment.
Neat stuff!
If you do live videos there is NO editing. You've mentioned that you like unscripted. Sounds perfect. Sure it won't be as clean and neat but the audience is here for authenticity. Just direct your audience to the live tab. I only mention this because I want more content. I'm absorbing information at an astonishing rate
That’s great! Glad your enjoying the content. I was wondering about doing a live event one day so I can simply offer a Q&A
Hey I really enjoy your videos, learning about how rides/coasters operate. Could you make a video about how coasters are winterized? Thanks for the great content!
Thank you. I could do something like that some time.
Ryan I have rather enjoyed hearing your knowledge about your experience with roller coasters. Something that has been surprisingly hard to search for on my own is the difference between LIM and LSM on roller coasters. I did manage to find 1 page that discussed it, however I found it rather difficult to absorb due to the technical terms being used. I would be very interested to see a video that explains the differences, and if there are any circumstances where a company may choose one over the other. I noticed in one of your newer videos on zamperla trains that you mentioned there's not really any reason to use LIM over LSM, but one of Vekoma's newest roller coasters for families seems to use LIM.
I have a LSM video coming out Friday. That should be a good one to compare. Let me know if your still unclear after that video. Another subscriber brought up that LIM trains can be much lighter minus the weight of the magnetic yokes under the train. The LIM systems are also slightly more forgiving as far as technology is concerned.
This video was awesome! Thank you
outstanding video, thank you
@@TakeiTeasy-dt8oq your welcome
I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!! I'll email you soon. Thank you Ryan!
Your welcome! Enjoy
Amazing video mate can't wait for more!
Thank you!
Great video..I'm 10 minutes in. You mentioned the fin and stator are around 8mm gap.
Ive always wondered the chance the fins would not line up with the gap and ouch...big problems when it hits.
I wonder this also as with these launches over 100mph how do they keep the fin that precise from not moving and risking it not being in line with the gap?
Although alignment is also critical on an LSM ride, because they use earth magnets the clearances are much wider about 6mm on each side of the stator. Compared to LIM 2(ish) on each side
Thanks for that great explanation! On the weight of trains, how heavy are B&M Invert trains? 7 cars or so. I heard they are about 40 tons (not sure anymore), but if you stop them on the lift, they shake the station hard
Most everything is between 1-2 tons per coach. Only one I’ve hear very different was X2 at magic mountain. That’s super heavy. But it’s also about 3 trains wrapped in one.
Cool channel, keep it up man.
Appreciate it!
I love your Mickey Mouse lamp! Thanks for the great info.
Thank you
Another great video! Did you have to perform any speed/position loop tuning with these drives? Or was that typically handled by the drive manufacturer? I work for a control systems integrator and have to do drive/motor turning regularly so I was curious if you personally had to dabble with that.
The tuning was done before my time. Once the drive was “set” no one was allowed to modify anything. Intamin didn’t even want to make any changes because it wasn’t really their drive at that point.
@@ryantheridemechanic Ah ok. That makes perfect sense. Thanks for the response!
I would love to sit down with you and talk about the ride mechanic part of things. Im considering a late career change from vehicles to rides. Wondering if it might be easier on my back. Ive ruined my back working on cars and medium duty trucks for 20 years.
LIM ❤ (as a passenger 😅)
Another question. You said if a reactive fin is damaged and needs replacing, the customer will be waiting a while on a replacement. When a park scraps a coaster, like when Cedar Point scrapped their Intamin LIM coaster, do they offer the parts for sale to other parks?
Typically no. The manufacturer and the insurance company(s) what all items destroyed. Unless they sold the ride to another park turn key, then the manufacture provides the care of transition.
Love this, thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
Big Thunder Mountain at Disneyland Paris also uses LIM drives to move the trains around. As far as I know, it had them from day one, of course not for a launch or to replace the classic chain lift. Just like explained here as a replacement for your typical tire drives in and out of the station (or in this case also into and out of the maintenance bay)
Sense they weren’t a launch or a “major” part of the the ride it was super hard to find out when they were out on. The date was a recollection from the parks maintenance director.
@@ryantheridemechanic Yeah, those less exciting parts don't usually get a lot of attention, except by people working with this particular rides and the really nerdy enthusiasts. 😅 Everyone else just takes for granted that there is something moving the train in and out of the station. But this makes the Paris version of Big Thunder Mountain my first LIM coaster. 😎
@@Colaholiker makes me really wonder where else they were used. But like you said, it would be hard to find out without talking to all parks. I was interested to see the people movers LIM in use sense 1975!! Wow
@@ryantheridemechanic I usually pay attention and I'm not aware of any other coaster that's not a launch coaster having them. Not sure why, as those small ones likely are a lot more manageable in their electrical demands and require less maintenance than tire drives. Maybe they are just so much more expensive..
I know there is a people mover at the airport in Houston, TX that used LIM, there's a video by Technology Connections about it here on TH-cam.
Id be interested in knowing if you know what modulation settings are used for the IGBT drive systems. Listening to typical impulse models they seem to start with 500 Hz Asynchronous PWM before jumping up to 1000 Hz Asynchronous PWM. Some VFD/VVVF enthusiasts have probes referred to as "Induction Recorders" used to get the switching profile of the IGBTs then convert that to audio.
Sorry, that’s way above my head! Haha!
Awesome video! Out of curiosity, I got a ride on possessed (an LIM impulse coaster at Dorney Park) and experienced an odd ride cycle. It initially launched like normal but quickly made almost like a scratching noise and the train felt like it was dragging on something and slowed down. The train barely made it up the first spike, but then the ride cycled normally for the rest of the cycle. The ride ops did not seem to care so I figured it must be a normal occurence. Any idea what could have caused this?
Intamin has a procedure to take malfunctioning IEE NET seasons out of the loop. When you take one off line, some times the drive does extremely weird things like what you describe. Measurements at thousandths of a second are not getting to the drive properly and that’s the result. Will it happen every time, no, but it does happen. Sensors in the main launch area can cause that. Sensors in the station area will cause the train to home erratically or not at all.
@@ryantheridemechanicInteresting, thanks for responding. Haven't even finished the video yet but still lots of good information. Are the capacitors easentially just for power factor correction and smoothing? Also, do you have to worry about EMI and ripple with these kinds of rides. Considering the level of precision you were talking about, I feel like they would probably have to.
@@nesmanmain0001 when you are ready check out the video on NET sensors might help more
th-cam.com/video/RYSe67tCcLo/w-d-xo.html
The devices used to concentrate the fields also shields other parts. So mainly the biggest part you have to deal with is static electricity building ups as a byproduct.
Interesting! Thank you for the video link! Looking forward to episode 3!
Are there any videos or photos of the inverters (IGBT's). I'm really curious how it looks.
@@dopetechlab9619 they come in everything. All different shapes and sizes. Most look like an overgrown capacitor or a red bull can. Not much to look at.
@@dopetechlab9619 something like these.
surplus.motionconstrained.com/shop/uncategorized/nwl-high-voltage-igbt-switched-enclosure-capacitor-bank-8-kv-3000-uf-500a-used/
@@ryantheridemechanic nah i don't mean the components them selfs i mean like the whole inverter room of the ride
@@dopetechlab9619 I’ve seen a video on instagram but don’t remember where. It was a park open house or something they weee giving tours
Question. For the video of California Screamin launching, what is the squeaking noise?
That’s the drive making high current passing it through the LIM motors. Your hearing electrical current passing through wires.
@@ryantheridemechanic similar to this noise?
th-cam.com/video/LMT1sn1bKRY/w-d-xo.html
Hi Ryan, thanks n greay sharing u give here. I've concern on electromagnetic field generated from the LIM , what is the typical level of the EMI actually generated surrounding it. I can't find anybody doing some research about it. Thanks😊😊
@@Ateyh373 honestly no clue there. Your best bet would be to contact intrasys or one of those company’s and ask the question so they don’t feel like they are giving away any secrets. Say you looking for a generalized answer and they might answer you back.
I never worked a ride that had a quick stop nor knew of any rides in my park that had one. What is the difference between a quick stop and a ride stop (assuming it is a conventional coaster with a lift hill, not a launched type)? I know at least some Cedar Point rides had quick stops, but I don't think Six Flags used them much if at all.
Impulse coaster was the only one over ever seen it on. Basically you could recover the train with no keys. Ride stop you had to restart the ride. So preferably hit the quick stop before ride stop before Estop
Why do you think Dorney Park won’t use the hold brake on possessed?
Those type elements are very stressful to the trains. So most parks disabled them
Have you ever ran into an instance where some type of critter made it's way on one of the bus bars and cause issues?
Nope. And along those lines, spider wears are not conductive haha!
In your honest opinion do you think top thrill dragster is being reimagined by Intamin or Zamperla. Supports that arrived so far look like Intamin. Could it be both companies. Intamin is supplying the track and launch system while Zamperla is providing the trains.
how heavy do you think the trains on a B&M wing coaster are? they look really heavy
A normal B&M train is about 3000lbs per coach so I would double that to GUESS around 6k or 3 tons per coach.
Do you think Disney would ever change Incredicoaster to LSMs and maybe new trains by Mack rides? Probably retrack it as well?
Possibly make the conversion to LMS I could see that. I’m thinking they would stay with same or similar trains made by Intamin. If they needed to retract the ride I’m also betting Intamin would make it again.
@@ryantheridemechanic Thx for the reply! Also two questions, are Intamin Impulses a pain when they break down and do ride operators turn on blocks in the morning or does maintenance do it? Thanks!
@@JungleJetAviation06 1- depends on the failure. Simple resets are easy enough.
2- blocks are always on and can never be bypassed or turned off. If your referring to a block check it depends on the park. Normally maintenance preforms their own block checks but some parks have operations preform them as well.
Ive worked on cnc equipment with servo's and encoders and when one of the encoders go out or gets out of sync the computer freaks out and sends full amperage and frequency to the servo to try and find its position! It takes a split second to trip out the drive. Its violent and will definitely wake you up!!!
@@neilbrown3359 I’d bet!
This is off topic so I apologize, but I have to ask since you’re a Disneyland fan. It’s a common belief that the Rocket Rods damaged the People Mover tracks, but I’ve always had a hard time believing that. I’ve always believed that it was closed because it was expensive to maintain. Do you think the Rocket Rods could have really caused that much stress to the tracks?
Yea, the rods accelerated the fatigue that the people mover was already working on. The structure was just not engineered to handle the heavier rods and track in place. Disney said the math was ok but looks like someone didn’t carry the 1. So in order to get the movers back they would have to almost completely remove the track and structure and rebuild it with today larger standards I. Place to handle the loading. If sad but they might cross that bridge when the structure becomes a overhead hazard to people. I would love to see that come back with the LIM like disneyworld uses.
How much are the stators for LIM systems per piece?
Depending on the size of the winding between $9-14k
@@ryantheridemechanic I also wanna mention that I read somewhere on the internet that the hydraulic launch system for Top Thrill Dragster was like $6 million dollars! I wonder what the most expensive part of the hydraulic system there is in that system before the ride retired.
@@tubepotato500 I can’t speak with first hand knowledge of hydro launch rides. But all the components are expensive but hen you have to multiply that time 12 I think it is. So if you divide by 12=$500k per system. Not to bad actually.
@ryantheridemechanic The figure I mentioned to you was several years ago when I saw it when I was trying to figure out the approximate cost of that system. I know that the large drum with the cable wrapped around it had 16 motors on each side with hoses connected to them from the hydraulic reservoirs and accumulators. I'm sure the accumulators are a fortune to make. This thing was immensely powerful too with over 10,000 horsepower to deliver that 120mph launch in under 4 seconds. I rode TTD many times and it's an adrenaline rush with that launch power!
@@tubepotato500 for sure. I bet the accumulators are extreme in cost and you need a lot. The drum is probably the cheapest component. On Vekoma rides like a boomerang the drum is meant to be changed every couple of years so it doesn’t eat the cable up.
That is called and induction generator.
You have slip speed in an induction motor.
th-cam.com/video/Hxz2ISdCPEo/w-d-xo.html this video shows a closeup of the new brake run track for the coaster formerly known as Top Thrill Dragster. what do you think of those brake fins?