Gibson Les Paul: 1950s Wiring Vs. Modern
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
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A few weeks ago, I swapped out the stock pickups in my Les Paul Custom for some Monty's PAF replicas - and I absolutely love them! They made the guitar sound so much more like I was wanting it to.
But that got me thinking: what else was different in Les Pauls back in the day compared to what Gibson make nowadays? Well, pretty much everything!
So in this video, I'm going to swap out the stock potentiometers & capacitors - and rewire the whole guitar to 1950s specs. But how much of a difference will this have?
I'm going to be using CTS 550k Pots custom made for Bare Knuckle Pickups - because they have the closest value & taper to the old Centralabs pots Gibson used in the 50s. For capacitors - getting hold of vintage Sprague/Mylar Bumblebees is a bit dodgy, so I opted for some vintage Russian military 22uF/0.022 Paper-In-Oil capacitors instead.
What do you think? Which wiring is your favourite? And why? Comment below!
Guitar recorded through a Hughes & Kettner Puretone Combo (recorded with an sE Electronics RNR1 Ribbon) and a Cornell Romany Plus (recorded with a 57)
jp@joeperkins.co.uk
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There were moments when I couldn't tell much (if any) difference. But in those spots where there was a more obvious difference, I definitely preferred the vintage 50's wiring. Thanks for posting this!
I'm building a new Les Paul and was trying to decide which wiring scheme to go with. I was already leaning towards the 50s... now I'm pretty sure that's what I'm going to do. Thanks for the demo!
This video was fantastic! You clearly put in a ton of time between wiring, playing, recording, and editing this all together. I love that you have the comparisons back-to-back instead of making us search through timestamps to compare. Excellent job!
As far as results, I was initially drawn to the brightness of the 50's wiring, but upon further reflection on my NS-10 speakers, I realized that the brightness came at the expense of the low end. The modern wiring sounds thicker, fuller, and smoother. The added brightness of the 50's wiring also sits right in the frequency range that my vocals sit when I'm singing along, but the modern wiring covers all the essential frequencies without competing with my vocal frequencies. As usual, your mileage may vary.
TLDR; Guitar by itself: 50's wiring. In a band context: modern.
The 50's wiring sounds more alive
“Alive” is a good description of what I perceive the difference to be. I think most of the mojo is with changing out the stock pots. I change pots out every time and not always for whats recommended. I’ve used .022 where .047 was spec’d and had great results. Trust YOUR ears, no one else’s really matter.
I will say the treble bleed (or lack of) on the 50’s was pretty dramatic. I think the capacitor might have made a difference but I go back to pots. The ones they install in most of the rack guitars i have found to be lacking with clarity and are in general muddy. A good CTS pot on amazon is around $6.00, they are easy to install and make more difference in many cases that any other mod including pickup changes.
Myth. Sound is subjective.
I like how the 50's wiring cleaned up as you turned the volume down, the modern wiring stayed crunchy at lower volumes; I'd prefer the ability to go clean by rolling the volume down a bit then crank it for crunch.
Especially true if you’re getting some or all of your gain by cranking up a tube amp.
Because it’s a logarithmic pot vs the stock linear pot
That’s how I do it. I set my guitar volume at 6 and crank my amp, then if I want more I just turn up the volume a bit.
Great job explaining and sound bites, I alway install the 50's wiring in all my Epi's and Gib's LP's
Awesome Comparison. I tend to like the 50's Wiring in this example. Thanks. I'm in the midst of wiring a Treble Bleed Circuit & ran across this.
I swapped the stock Burstbucker ‘61 pups out of my LP Classic for a set of Monty’s PAFs with their 50’s wiring harness. Huge difference. Monty’s pickups are fantastic by themselves, but the 50’s wiring added a brightness that has transformed the way the guitar sounds. I’m a big fan!!
It sounds fuller and more dynamic somehow. It sounds so much better! Props
I went from a PCB modern style Les paul Classic from 2019 to a 50's style wiring. OMFG, I turned a guitar that I already loved into the best guitar I have ever played. Will do the same on every Gibson I own.
can you describe the difference? i'm considering having my tech do 50s wiring to my Epiphone Les Paul Custom, but am trying to decide if a bridge pickup upgrade or 50s wiring would be a better next upgrade!
I built my own LP style guitar from precision guitar kits. I built the 59 carved top model and chose to do a 50's wiring method and there's no doubt about it, it makes the guitar much more dynamic especially when you start working the volume pots. You lose some overall volume as you roll it down but you gain much more clarity as your demo so excellently demonstrated.
50's wiring sounds with more resonance. I love it.
Cool thanks you helped me decide to get 50’s wiring!
I'm definitely leaning towards the 50's wiring! Overall, it sounds softer and more fluid than the modern wiring to my ears... Great video! Cheers - Luther
To me 50's sounds *more* alive. It conveys a sense of urgency & energy to your playing in pretty much all takes!
I will try this one out sometime in the future.
Loved this insight! pretty well stitched video, plenty of examples! Thank you!!!
Nice to hear a comparison between the two with the same guitar - God job, well done :)
It Was the same guitar... Mr bright.
Great video, again. Your channel will probably be my go-to for these sorts of test and reflections.
Great work.
And great playing.
And great thinking/tinkering.
I am here just because of the same questions to straighten out.
And i concur with your conclusion. I have a few CTS push-pullers with the same taper and a few new PAFs that will be put to use.
Now i know, the 50's wiring it is. Saved me some time potentionally.
Thanks! Very much enjoyed the video. I've been playing guitar for just under 50 years and the main reason for different wiring in my guitars has been for the use of the tone pots... you may enjoy using the tone pots at different settings for a real fun test. It can come accross best to new ears in playback (if using tone pots is a new thing to the player). Everything from subtle to exaggerated sound pallets can be achived.
I prefer the 50s wiring myself. Another wiring mod worth its weight is for independent volume controls. It allows you to blend volumes for the neck and bridge pickups without the volume cutting out when you have the middle position selected.....in fact I only ever have my Les Paul on the middle position since swapping to 50s with independent volume controls. Plus for P90s it's a godsend because basically your P90s will be wired like a humbucker in the middle position. It's a bit complicated to go into it fully, but welcome to the wiring rabbit hole 😆👍
definite sound change . much prefer the 50's wiring. you have made up my mind on how i will upgrade my old 97 epi les paul . thanks matey .
So much clearer with the 50s wiring for sure. Sounds like it gets rid of the one complaint I have of Les Pauls. They're too dark sometimes. Definetely changing the wiring in my 06!
50's has more top end which I always need with Les Pauls.
Also one thing I've noticed switching caps myself is that it clarifies your pick attack in a big way. My style is a lot like Slash's - Bluesy/Punky and I always wondered what was lacking in the sound after putting his pickups in, then i changed the caps and palm muting and over all picking was more nuanced! good job bro!
I liked the comparison. I will say this. I believe that if you found the right amp / guitar combination it would also make a big difference. I did some A/B comparisons the other day and I was amazed how awesome my Peavey Classic 50 Twin sounds compared to anything else. I may switch to the 50s wiring and see how it does through that amp.
I think I'm the only one who's not seen the tone and volume pots directly joined by the capacitor! I'd only ever seen a jumper between the two and the cap going straight to ground. I've got some serious tinkering to do! Great vid btw 🤠
Not that it matters - I'm sure most everybody knows what you meant - but the caps are .022 µF not 22 µF.
Yeah, I messed up :P
Hello, as a hifi builder I have to tell some things. A capacitor in these circuits works as a first order crossover as in loudspeakers. Smaller the value it has less filter effect on sound frequencies. Most of the ear screeching humm and EMI sounds occur on higher frequencies than range of the guitars. As its nature guitar has a very limited frequency range, you can check it from instrument frequency charts. So frequencies over upper limit of that range cut off with caps. If you put a tweeter in a cabinet you might still be able to hear unwanted sounds. Woofer size speakers offer both limited high frequency reproduction and better bass. Thus working as crossovers too (limiting high frequencies like caps). In hifi natural signal is always the target and tried to be preserved at all costs. To my experience I may can offer some alternatives to this dilemma of yours. There are many great quality caps which non existent in times of first Les Pauls. Film and foils,propylene, silver and gold and etc. Mundorf,solen,Hovland, and many other great brands are out there. These lower value caps are considered as bypass caps and most insane ones only go for 50$. I suggest you to try these. If you want some of the characteristics of one particularly and add more definition or different performance ,halve the value of each and add another brand in parallel them together. But in the end, other than some very subtle differences,and placebo, all are same in these upper frequencies. In mid frequencies it's another matter. Btw oil caps dry out. Even in nos condition I wouldn't consider using them. Grounding properly,using best pots,using shielded and braided,and twisted wires,grounded bridge metal parts are far better and effective solutions.
Well said sir!
Thanks
thanks
The thing with the caps is it depends whether you want the guitar to sound how a '59 sounded when it was new or whether you want it to sound like it's 60 yo? Saw an article recently where they were trying to do what you're doing... When they measured the 60 yo caps in a '59 they were using for reference they discovered they'd drifted to about 0.084uf... Food for thought.
Yep, that's very true - the capacitors do drift a lot over time & most of those old LPs now have cap values much higher than they originally were. I decided to go for 'original' spec with this project :-) Very good point though!
I liked the clarity of the 50s wiring. To me it was not a huge difference, but enough that I had a definite preference.
50's wiring sounds more open, I love it!
You’re not Slash or Gary Moore but man, it’s the first time I actually like the LP tone from the first second I hear it...wait, I was forgetting Steve Clark. Awesome job, man. ¡Me quito el sombrero!
Glad you like it Miguel :-)
I use 50's style wiring, too. Really enjoy the tone it allows from the guitar that somehow gets lost woth modern wiring.
Great vid! Rewiring my Epi LP for the millionth and last (lol) time, and you sure confirmed that one choice once again!
I’ve got cheap PAFs I like, and I’m not using the best parts or any caps of note, but the ordering of the circuit makes all the difference. I just do one vol, one tone, but I also wire the tone cap just between a lug and back of the tone pot, not over to a lug of the vol pot... and I don’t remember why. I think I had the best results with that before, but also had remembered that as “50s style.”
A great comparison! Like with all the tech talking it all just comes down to your own opinion of what you like. They both sounded great in my opinion. It would be great to hear them both into and actual overdriven amp, I feel the 50’s wiring would have really come in to its own more. But great video! Thank you
Very informative. I'm goin' with 50's.
PLUS you get the added bonus of being able to blend both pickups when in the middle position. it is a matter of preference but there is no doubt the 50s wiring seems to make more sense from an engineering point of view. If they wanted to darken the tone I wonder why they didn't use a lower value pot? Hmmmm......
Thanks man, Very helpful, I just bought the Epiphone Les Paul 59 standard it has Gibson Burstbuker 2 and 3 pickups with CTS pots, Mallory capacitors, 50s era wiring. This is a serious guitar. It has changed my thoughts totally on Epiphone.
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Great video. Thank you mr Perkins
Another great comparison - thanks for that. I mainly focus on the clean stuff and it seemed to me the 50's wiring had more presence and was more 'expressive' . . . at one point verging on early Peter Green tones. The Monty's are great, probably going to order the Underspun PAF's but the Bethnal Greens are tempting!
I'd love to try the Underspuns - bet they're amazing! :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic If / when I get them in will try to reply here with an update. Not sure how it works . . . whatever ? :)
more over tones and harmonics in the after clips, I don't think it's going to be a huge difference but I just purchased a pair of Luxe Radio bumblebee replicas to put in my SG with VI 500k pots.I think it's worth the upgrade, it's one and done forever more and them your expensive guitar has the best electronics too. cool comparison Joe.
Well done comparison Joe, thanks. 50's wiring sounded the best to me. Less klang, more schwang.
Maybe there's a difference but I can't hear it. If it is so subtle, probably don't worth the upgrade...
That might be because of your speakers. I heard clearly a difference. Maybe not so much with gain as with clean. But not hard to hear a difference. But I have notice as I have several speakers, monitors, headphone, that some just hear something much less difference between sound tests like this.
The response for the tone control is different for vintage, which is why they changed to modern.
The biggest difference is the dynamic relationship between the volume and tone pots. On a modern circuit the rc filter of the tone knob is connected to the input of the volume pot (before the volume resistance) the 50's wiring connects the tone circuit to the output of the volume pot (after the volume resistance). This changes the cutoff frequency and response of the tone knob depending on where the volume pot is. It makes the tone knob feel like it has more sounds available especially when you roll off the volume a little. 50's wiring also stays a bit brighter as you roll off the volume with the tone knob all the way up. Hard to show the differences in a demo, but the difference is unmistakable when you play and start adjusting the controls.
Just built my first guitar kit and used a modern wiring schematic - was disappointed that rolling off the volume didn't clean things up like it does on my stratocaster! Looks like I need to rewire for 50s, thanks!
Awesome stuff Brett - glad the video helped! :-)
I played an actual 58 LP and still preferred the sound of modern LP's. The mids are more pronounced which to me, is the signature sound.
Great vid. Very well produced. Thanks for uploading.
Thanks Shaun :-)
I got an Obsidian wiring kit with switches on each pickup so I can run 50-60 both. Agree the 50's is nicer to my ear.
Me too, I run the neck in '50's and bridge in 60's. I only use the neck for cleans.
Man you deserve over a hundred thousand subscribers great channel.
Hey this is a great video, thanks for making it. I preferred the modern wiring for the clean clean tone, that was excellent.
Really cool idea! That LP Sounds Great bro!!
To my ear It’s virtually indistinguishable most of the time. The 50’s sounded slightly duller in some of the sounds then brighter in a few others. I think the winner is me! Because I don’t see how it’s worth it, and I won’t waste my resources. Great comparison and thanks!
Watch the video, his knobs are always on 10 unless stated otherwise. YET the 50's circuit ONLY ALTERS THE TONE once you turn a knob down. Pay attention to the parts where he moves the volume, because that's where the actual difference is (and it's drastic)
That might be because of your speakers. I heard clearly a difference. Maybe not so much with gain as with clean. But not hard to hear a difference. But I have notice as I have several speakers, monitors, headphone, that some just hear something much less difference between sound tests like this.
@@FreshBagelz There is also a difference because the 50's wiring is using 550 pots which are letting more highs in.
One important thing: those 2 circuits (Modern and 50's) are exactly the same when the volume pot is full on and you won't and can't hear any sonic difference! The circuits are differents only when you start lowering the volume pot and this is where the magic happen.
Please explain a bit more about them.
@@nandu1770 You have to look at the schematics and understand electronic circuit.
Its sounds like it has difference on vol 10
I think you may be missing the point for 50s wiring. If you have wired that way all the volumes and the tones effect tone in spite of where your toggle is. The toggle will work but when down more to the bridge sound and top more to your neck sound. That is why you see them always fiddling with them during live shows. Peter Green is an excellent example watch how much he messes with the knobs to adjust while playing live. Most of us now do not do this much just set to bridge and crank to 10 on volume and tone. I like the guitars I have wired the old way but they are different beasts and you have to have some great pickups and hardware as you bought to hear the subtle adjustments. It is the sum of the parts and also how effective you can use them. You did not flip the toggle and move the volume tones around. For example, I have a Parsons street PAF replica in bridge and a Greenie replica in the top of one of my LP and 50s wiring. I am going to replace pots and wire eventually toggle also but I usually like it around 7-8 bridge volume and somewhere a little less for neck volume then tones around 6-10. It is like a small search each time but once dialed in when toggle is on bridge I get a more bold piercing sound and neck gets fuzzy darker while middle is that magic out of phase not fuzzy but not bridge either a happy go between. I must note that I purposely put in this hardware just especially for that guitar and effect. I did not update the tone knobs for money reasons, less time invested and to know the starting sound so in a few months I will know exactly the effect of changing the tones and resistors makes with the existing hardware. I have other guitars I love to play but the one I am telling you about is just magic. It is not a metal sound or a out of date sound but could be used in any genre of music and work. When I put it down for a hotter guitar like the ESP Vs I instantly note what I was missing but when I pick it back up after the Vs notice it brings more colors to the table. That is what you want or why would anyone own over 20 guitars? Sure I have about 8 tunings I fall back to but even then what hardware will sound good for that tuning etc is a fine art. Practice messing with volume and tones in 50s wiring and you will see what I am talking about. Especially with the PAFs. Real PAF are not potted but mine make high feedback at live volumes so I may end up potting the bridge. We shall see... many PAF guys did pot them eventually although it is nice to be able to make that choice for one's self.
Awesome video thanks!! You helped me make my decision, though I prefer the modern wiring I will probably experiment with both. Cheers
Cheers Chuck - glad you enjoyed it! :-)
Best demo ever! I prefer the 50s. I have an Epiphone SG 400 that I've ordered new CTS pots for and a new switch and cloth wire. I haven't got the Caps yet and I wonder, will not having bumblebee in there ruin the 50s sound. Well, I have a wee bit of electronics background, a good understanding of ohm's law and I can't picture it making so much difference that I won't be satisfied with the sound. I thought your video was great, if I'm not already, I'll be subscribing and most certainly sharing.
Looking forward to more of your videos, keep up the good work,
Uncle Eric.
🎸🔧
Thanks for the kind words Eric :-) The honest truth RE caps is...no, not having Bumblebees won't ruin the sound. Some people swear the type of caps makes a difference (PIO vs. ceramic, etc); others say it doesn't whatsoever. I'm somewhere on the fence between the two - I think it can make a difference, but most of it is probably in our heads...which isn't necessarily a reason not to go with the Bees. The type of caps really matters in amplifier circuits, where they're coupling capacitors - as in, the entire signal passes through them. In guitars, the signal that passes through the caps is dumped to earth, so it's not actually 'heard'. The thing that makes the difference is the value of the cap, not the composition - and remember that in vintage guitars, the value drifts over time, which is responsible for a lot of the changes that people talk about. Just my opinion :-) Enjoy experimenting!!
With vintage wiring you can play like the masters from the sixties and seventies. Control the sound from your guitar!! Roll off the volume for clean and the old way doesn,t lose treble!for example. The best way to hear the difference,,,, plug into your tube amp. Controls on the guitar all to 10. Bring up your amp until you get saturation distortion. Adjust bass treble mid to you taste. Then back off the volume. It will go clean without treble loss but you can get distortion by pick attack!!!
Great video as always, very informative. I spotted a Cardiacs CD too which is always nice to see!
Love Cardiacs! :-)
I did this to my LP a while back, I found with the modern wiring, when rolling off the volume a bit, the tone would start to loose all the highs, Kind of like i was rolling off the tone at the same time. When using the 50's wiring, the tone would stay the same, nice a bright, and more chiming to the tone, and better harmonics. The 50's wiring is a must, unless you play with your guitar knob volume set to 10 at all times.
Couldn't agree more! It makes the vol & tone a lot more interactive with each other...turn the tone down, the volume will drop a bit as well. But as you say, it's definitely worth it for the clarity & crispness :-)
I plan on doing it soon. 90% of the time my volume is rolled back. It only goes up for big rythm parts or solos
I'm in the process of changing both my Firebirds to 50's style wiring. And dumping the goofy modern ceramic pickups.
I like the 50's wiring i'm replacing with hand wound pickups and rewiring to the 50's I'm using 50's 33uF caps
50s wiring cleans up so much better on a dirty amp and a lot more interaction between tone control and volume. If you use your knobs 50s wiring is the way
Very thorough my G thanks from Compton big dawg
the main difference couldn't the main diference be because of different post values you used? the bnk 550K probably measure much higher than the original 500K pots and higher value means less treble to ground, meaning a brighter guitar, with more clarity...
I definitely like the 50's wiring. I just put a 50's wiring in my Epiphone Les Paul. I love it!
thanks , just decided to covert my Epi to 50s wiring :P
I'd be guessing but it seems to me you changed 300K linear volumes as installed by Gibson to 550K logarithmic CTS pots from BKP and found a big difference in the guitars sound and in the way the controls operate. There is really no mystery or voodoo associated with Centralab pots to that. This is simply what happens when you change from one value pot with linear response curve to a higher value pot with a logarithmic response. I'm beginning to think that this is where the myth of 'special' Centralab pots comes from. In the 50's Gibson used 500K log pots that happened to be from Centralab. Some years later and for a long period Gibson used 300K linear pots. That is all the 'magic' associated with the Centralab pots is.
CTS is Chicago Telephone Supply.
Terry Relph-Knight vintage CL pots do sound different. Not a myth.
@@orbitaljellyfish808 Well you say one thing and I have my own opinions. My question is IF Centralab pots sound different from modern pots, lets say CTS pots, why do they sound different? All pots old or new were and are made principally to be resistors with a moveable tap. And that is very much what they are, there are tiny amounts of parasitic capacitance and inductance associated with them, but these are just too small to have any audible effect. I have seen some data taken from measuring resistance against rotation for Centralab pots and they have a perfectly normal 10% curve log characteristic, exactly like modern pots. There simply aren't any qualities other than maximum resistance or track curve/taper that the old Centralab pots could have that would make them sound different or better than modern pots.
Terry Relph-Knight yeah nothing personal of course. I spent/wasted a lot of time and money trying a variety of modern recreations of vintage pots and am trying to save anyone else the misfortune; I’d have been money ahead to just get the vintage stuff in the first place.
To your question; I wish I knew the answer. I’ve spent a lot of time pondering the mystery. I agree with the logic you’ve put forth, but my guitar didn’t care about that lol.
My guess is that back in the day manufacturing of metals and all sub-components of the parts had a variety of differences all along the way (mining to assembly), some big, some small, some extinct, others maybe unchanged, but all of them accumulated into a final product that was a total sum of that exact process.
Maybe some of the alloys’ ingredients were more pure and others less, maybe they used lead (or other things) in things and didn’t document it. Maybe there were procedures now considered unsafe (for workers and environment).
What is sure is that over time, as with seemingly every product, the parts used in guitars evolved, probably to save money. When dealing with the tiny amounts of inductive energy guitars produce, it would seem subtle differences would be bigger differences, and perhaps beg the question, why would modern pots (and other parts) NOT sound different?
Here’s a link to a series of pics of a vintage pot disassembled. Compare these internals to a modern pot. You’ll see differences in material color, thickness, and dimensions of pretty much everything. www.lespaulforum.com/pots/parts.html
@@orbitaljellyfish808 Thank you for the link to the pictures of the disassembled Centralab pot. I apologise for beating this subject to death, but I'm afraid I'm not seeing what you see. To me it looks very much like any commercial quality pot made in the last 50 years. The only parts that might have an effect on the signal are the printed carbon track and the metal wiper. I am generally sceptical about any claims of the audible benefit from old manufacturing methods and materials. Pots (when used as potentiometers) were and are designed not to change the signal other than in level. They are general purpose parts used in a variety of audio equipment, so if the old pots did have an effect on the signal that was large enough to be audible I think it would have been common knowledge at the time. I would like to get my hands on at least one Centralab or other brand pot used by Gibson in the 50s so I could at least make my own measurements and perform listening tests, but I hesitate to pay the kind of money they go for, particularly for an old component that may not even be working.
Another very cool video. thanks
The 50's wiring is edgier. A nice edge on the tone. I like it better. Thanks.
50's wiring definitely cleans up much better with volume control. How are the actual wires themselves wired differently?
The only difference is how the capacitor connects to the volume & tone pots...I'm going to make a follow-up video to this one soon explaining that :-)
Just changed pots on second les paul. It slays me that they use 250k volumes and 450k tones. Put 500k bourns pots in and orange drops. Its lovely now. I still cant believe we pay 2500$ for inferior pots and wiring. All good cause I do love the build. btw I did the 50s wiring as well. But to be honest its the 500k pots that make the brightness not the wiring.cheers
Joe you are always top, cheers from Greece!!!
50s all the way. Just got my CTS 500k pots and orange drop 22 caps from amazon, and I'm about to re-wire my Hagstrom Swede Les Paul. Going with a push/pull on the bridge to coil split, for that spanky tone for chicken picking though!
I assume the OEM parts were your typical 500K pots and 0.047 mfd caps used on humbuckers. If so, the results are as expected - slightly louder at the same settings. Higher resistance pots reduce treble bleed. Higher capacitance caps lower the cutoff frequency of the tone control. Early Gibsons may have used a different circuit as well (the old style "kill either volume kills both pickups" wiring). To chase a tone: start with the correct type of guitar with the proper construction and woods, then use the correct pickups, and pot and cap values, and wiring circuit. Then get the correct amp and cab, plug it all together, set the controls just so, and you will be as close as possible. I'm not a tone chaser myself, but that's how one would go about it. At least that's what 55 years as a musician, 54 years as a composer, 43 years as a guitarist, 40 years as a sound engineer, 40+ years as a formally trained engineer, and 3 years as a luthier with 60+ builds tells me.
Tone chasing never made sense to me. With a handful of pedals and a chip amp I can get pretty much any tone desired out of any type of guitar - regardless of construction or electronics.
Form the comments it seems you swapped B300K pots for A550K pots - linear lower resistance to audio higher resistance. That explains at least some of the differences. Different cap values would make up any remaining differences.
If I use volume and/or tone at all on a build, audio taper 1 meg on/off pots are definitely preferred. And the cap value should compliment the pickup's voice.
Really nice made comparison, thanks!
I put 50's wiring to my les Paul too and yeah, it's pretty bright but sametime really nice and dynamic. It's nice now keep highs when rolling volume lower. 50's wiring works better also with Fuzz pedals i think because brightness. I have Gibson 57 classic pickups and for those 50's wiring is great, like meant to be. With modern wiring 57's has big bass, but with 50's it's tamed and those are like new pickups.
No worries! Yeah, I massively prefer it - brighter, but everything is more interactive. Turn the tone down, the volume goes down a bit, etc. Just much more fun to play around with, I'm finding!
Super professional demo Joe, greatly appreciated. It’s the 50’s wiring for me, no question about it.
Cheers buddy! Yep, I agree...definitely my favourite of the two!
I tried to mount a 50 wiring on an epiphone, and the result was wow
Volume attenuation (decrease) with the 50’s wiring seems too much. Especially for as popular as it is. Having to go from 3 to 7 to compensate is a lot.
I much appreciate anyone who takes the time to produce and share a video of their mods! Thanks!
Tried the 50’s style capacitor tap on the center volume. LP Studio with 490R/498T and I lost a lot of bass. It puts too much volume control into the tone controls for my liking. Overall it sounds more like bedsprings, and that must work well for many playing styles.
I’m going back to Modern with an upgrade (I think) from tiny ceramics to orange drop capacitors. Zero dollar experiment though, and worth the try. Thanks again!
Most styles of Caps go bad over time and Sprague Yellows are notoriously bad for it. In old electronics they are replaced ASAP, especially in Tube gear (see Mr Carlson's Lab). Long story short, old Caps break down internally and start to short out, in turn greatly lowering the capacitance AND start to leak electrically meaning they're passing both AC and DC and thus are compromised in the 2 things they're designed to do. What this means in signal circuits, like Audio especially, is that they can't pass the entire frequency range with highs reduced and bass often greatly reduced. This is the principle and reason that Tube Amps sound like shit with no highs or lows when they're in disrepair and the caps have started to fail.
In short, ALL caps used in these types of mods are specifically chosed because they're BROKEN and function simply to cut off the bass and highs. The lack of bass in the 50s internals was very apparent to me in this clip, and that's despite not even playing that low of frequencies which will become even more reduced the lower you go. It's also very clear to me that the new electronics either A. are intentionally designed to have integrated distortion or B. the working new components are sending a signal strong enough to overdrive his input into distortion. Long story short, you can achieve the exact same effect by putting bad caps in-line in a pedal, cord, or simply using some rudimentary pre-amp settings. This is just ignorant audiophilia, confirmation bias, and not understanding what's causing the difference. I mean, boutique Pots is just crazy and all you need to do is roughly find similar specs to the originals. I suspect the modern ones aren't linear while the originals are. Electrical instruments are simply passing a very basic signal to be amplified and, if you don't like the sound, that's what pre-amps and effects are for without hacking in failed components. The exact sound can be achieved with very basic signal analysis.
I can not understand how people prefer the modded sound in the video unless they absolutely hate low end, dynamic range and have lost their ability to hear above like 12k.
The 50s wiring is easier to listen to. Smooth frequency distribution.
The modern wiring sounds harsh in comparison.
To my ear it was similar to the difference between valve and solid state amps.
0.022 rated cap is not a 22uf ( 22 microfarad) but 22nf (22 nanofarad) !
Aye, you're totally correct - my maths was a little off when I made this one!
I like 50s wiring, pickups going to middle lug is better for blending. Get a treble bleed/ bright cap on the volume pots like 2.2 or 3.3 uf to keep fidelity when rolling down volume.
Joe, two year-old video, but I'm just now finding it. I've been bored with my retired life from the military, so I decided to go back to my childhood love and pick up a guitar again, but I didn't want to spend an arm and a leg, until I was sure I'd stick with it, so I bought a dirt cheap Blue Sunburst Maestro Les Paul Junior by Gibson for $25 and decided to "upgrade" it. I'm going to put a Gibson Accessories '57 Classic Plus Pickup in it, along with a CTS 500kΩ volume pot and CTS 250kΩ tone pot and a 0.022µF Orange Drop cap, wired to late'50s schematics. I'm changing to an adjustable wraparound bridge from StewMac and Kluson Revolution locking tuners.
I know I could have probably bought a used Epiphone for what I'm spending on this one and just start playing, but there's no fun in that. I really enjoyed seeing your comparison and am convinced in my path to go with the '50s wiring schematic. I also sanded down the headstock and repainted it in black lacquer front and back (with stinger on back) and added the Gibson and Les Paul Junior gold leaf decals and then clear lacquered over them. The result is gorgeous, and the hope is (from my wife) that it will curb my desire to eventually buy the real McCoy.
Thanks again for the video, thumbs up and sub'd.
Ah nice one mate - playing around with pots, wiring etc can be a lot of fun when you get into it :-) Hope you're happy with the results!!
Really love the airiness w. 50s wiring. I love the way those pickups make the treble strings so cleanly audible. I have a Gibson LP Traditional 2019 w/ stock Burstbuckers, and while I do like the fuzzy, airiness, I find that the treble strings, regardless of how I adjust pickups or pole pieces, just get sort of drowned out by the bass strings.
Bass will always carry over treble, but I believe a mild bit of compressor would get the sound you are looking for. Good luck dude!!
@@Dirtilike1 I figured it out - finally. I had my treble side bridge pickup jacked way too far up close to the strings. I’ve found that the higher you bring the pickups, the more muffled the sound. Muddy-like. I lowered treble side bridge pickup and wow, those treble strings really sing now.
@@lorimeyers3839 yeah, when the magnet starts pulling the string downward it's fighting it's natural resonance. There is a sweet spot for sure.
A year later, I must say 50s wiring is best with vintage pedals like a Tone Bender or Maestro.
50's wiring is best for me... thanx for this video ...
Don't know if was my ears or what but I'm afraid I didn't hear the difference in brightness and darkness with the two different wiring's like you did (I'll watch again...). I thought the modern wiring was a bit fuller/beefier/cruchier at most volume settings. All I did really notice was the dramatic drop in volume/output at low volume settings, which seamed would be very annoying! I was about to rewire my guitar to the 50's wiring until hearing your great video upon when I changed my mind to go with the modern...and then you said you comments on how much better you thought the 50's was.....!! I respect your opinion so now I'm at a quandary as to what to do!!??
I think it totally depends on how much you use your tone control & what you want to get out of it - I like the interplay between the Vol & Tone with the 50's wiring...I personally find it more interesting to play around with. But that's not to say the modern doesn't sound great too - there's practically no difference between the two when both pots are wide open. There's a reason Gibson still use the modern wiring & haven't gone back to the 50s style...going with the modern isn't 'wrong' at all, it's whatever works best for you :-)
There's a very slight difference in using the neck pick up. But using the bridge pick up, the 1950's is more vintage and warmer than the modern.
Modern wiring is good for playing in front of the amp on full tone and volume without touching it at all, when there is no other backing track or band playing. 50's wiring especially with some bright pickups may sound harsh and piercing in the situation above (but you can dial back your tone, really) but its unbeateble in live situation or playing with backing track, 50's wiring lets your guitar fit in the mix perfectly and stay present. But i'd prefer linear pots instead of log, because with linear pots on overdrive chanel when you dial the volume on the guitar you are dialing the gain so it cleans up without lacking the volume that much.
Hey Joe! (No pun intended), awesome video, and excellent performace. Can you tell me the name of the song at 6:42 (when you start with the Broadcast pedal)? Thanks!
Ah, that's one of my riffs that I've been playing around with for years but have never done anything with! :P (though it's a pretty basic rock riff in A!!) Might develop it one day :-)
50s for me - brighter and the sound "shimmers" - doesn't seem to decay as rapidly.
Great video man. I love the sounds of the "50's wiring" but I have a problem with it that you're not demoing here: it cleans up really well when you use the volume pot but do you notice that if you turn the tone knob too, that tone doesn't really work as a tone anymore but as an extra volume pot? It might be something wrong i did but if for example I'm on the neck pickups with the volume at 5 to clean up the sound and i want to turn down the tone to 5 to get a jazzier sound it doesn't get warmer but thinner and quieter. Am i the only one?
With the 50s wiring, the two pots are definitely more linked & 'interactive' with each other...so turning down the tone will reduce the volume slightly. However, it should still definitely be a tone control & shouldn't be acting as a pure volume pot....so it sounds like something might be slightly off with your wiring. With the tone wound fully on, the volume drop shouldn't be too substantial.
I'm confused; isn't the difference mainly seen when you lower the volume pots? I read that the main difference is that '50s wiring doesn't reduce brightness when you lower volume, but modern wiring does. You did a few tests with reduced guitar volume, but it seems to me that various volume levels should have been the focus of this test.
The main difference I noticed, tho, was that the '50s wiring had lower volume at the same settings.
Great job, very informative. As soon as the video ended I ordered the same pots and some of the Luxe replica bumble bees. Looking forward to hearing the difference!
50s wiring gets rid of the fuzz effect at any volume less than 10. It plays each note clearer and with higher treble, even when playing a chord. You still have a slight fuzz at full volume if needed. It’s a no brainer for me. I used .022 orange drops (left the 440k pots it came with) for mine, love the way it cleaned up. I’m debating on installing 500k pots, haven’t decided yet. Mine are a little hotter, and I like to play a lot of rock. I just like the way each note comes through even with higher gain settings.
I notice your tone is sharper and more sustain
Thanks, I preferred the 50s wiring. Good video.
Cheers mate - me too! ;-)
Hey Joe, great video!! I liked the darker modern sound better but would be happy with either. Like you, I’ve already upgraded my pickups and am moving to the electronics. Did you just change the pots and caps or did you change the switch and plug too?
Great video, thanks! I’m thinking of changing my 2010 LP Traditional to 50’s wiring and I definitely prefer the sound - more clarity and bite. Undecided about the caps though, I’ve heard that the paper in the bumblebees degrades over time, so I may go for something modern like orange drops. There’s a lot of conflicting opinions out there!
I'm really enjoying the 50s wiring :-) I've just fitted some of the Luxe repro Bumblebees to this guitar and am really enjoying them too! There's a demo of those here: th-cam.com/video/V8QDep8C2KI/w-d-xo.html
Only the actual value matters in the caps.
Typically you would use a 40 something micro Farad cap on a humbucker. And the better (in my opinion) 50's "wiring" is most noticeable when the tone control knob is used (not so much when everything is wide open). By the why a smaller cap is used on a single coil....typically. The difference is less range in tone.....but i could be corrected in that point.
I think 40uF caps might be commonly used nowadays for humbuckers, but everything I've read about 50s/1959 wiring has been with the 0.022 Sprague Bumblebee capacitors...could be wrong though! You're very right about the tone knob - to be honest, I didn't know just how big a difference it was going to make, so by the time I found out that it was massively different (/better!) I'd swapped the wiring & couldn't shoot any 'before' clips! I'm thinking of converting my P90 LP to 50s wiring though, so I'll definitely include a lot more tone knob riding in the video if I do that!! :-)
I am not the expert, but i do have a '58 reissue that is just the best guitar i have played for fingerboard playability and the best i have heard for tone in humbuckers.....so between the pickups, pots, and capacitors the old 'stuff' is the best.
Agreed!! :-) I'm loving the 50s wiring & vintage caps...everything is so much more useable!
Great job man love the 50’s wiring!
Overall winner: 50's wiring for me.
Tonally the main difference between vintage and modern wiring is that with vintage, turning the volume down sounds like a simple volume reduction but with modern wiring the tone changes loosing highs but there is also more interaction between tone pots and volume pots with vintage. I think I mostly prefer vintage wiring but both have pros and cons. It also depends on the guitar. If it's dark sounding then vintage may be better.
Very good summation :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic Since making that comment I found this video which goes into detail and shows the actual effect.
th-cam.com/video/uRUobVmNKko/w-d-xo.html
So there is in fact an increase at the treble end. These effects seem to be more of a perception. I have an Epiphone G400 with vintage wiring and I like that a lot. I think I will wire my Les Paul to 50s. I’ve not used that guitar much. I have a Heritage H150 which I prefer but I’m going to try to improve the Gibson. The Epiphone G400 was dirt cheap from ebay. I changed the pickups to Gibson Classic 57s and changed the dodgy bridge and It’s a really good guitar. However, it’s an old one from the 90s and made by Samick in Korea and I think much better made than the newer Chinese Epiphones. The pickups in the old ones are not good but they are well made guitars.
I’m left handed like yourself so I don’t get to choose between lots of guitars.