Another source of lithium-bearing brine is very common and widely dispersed around the drier but populated parts of the world - desalination plants. The day may come when most desal plants have a DLE plant attached.
It makes things a bit more elegant, that so many of those desal plants are located in nations that are looking for their next act, in a world that is increasingly no longer buying their fossil fuels.
@@sn5301679 I only care for the fact that they are great companies. At least for Allkem and Cleantech Lithium I can say that with great certainty. Lake is bad at communication. Iam very happy with Allkem, and very excited about what the Future of Cleantech Lithium might bring. Their communication is great. and the possibility of DLE is enough for me to have a good feeling about nature.
Lilac and their partner Lake Resources just extended their time to production by 3-4 years, when everyone thought they were at the cusp of production in the near future 23/24. Very disappointing. DLE does not appear to be easy. Each location is site and chemical specific and requires and carries a varying volume of challenges.
Why don't they use "closed loop" brine systems? Instead of using ponds, just pump the brine through solar-heated pipe networks, raising its temperature near to boiling, then dumped into a "finishing vat" that boils off the remaining water and thoroughly dries the lithium, just like the ponds do. They can even capture the steam and re-condense it to send back for more lithium. This is similar to how sugar is made.
@@albex8484 Well, that's why I said they should use solar heating for most of the process, but I have to think that containing the water and not have to use trucks to scoop up the lithium salts would make the process much much faster and more efficient.
2% of mined Li brine is used in every 1 tonne of EV battery needing 500,000 tonnes of mined brine - this is not the solution for 8 billion people be ware of the LIes ahead.
I get what you're saying. And yet, whether solar energy is obtained from concentrating panels or is spread out over a large pond, the heat (energy) of vaporization of water is the same regardless of the means used. Using the metric system, it requires 1 calorie to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water by one degree centigrade, and then it takes 540 calories for the phase change to convert 1 gram of water at 100C to 1 gram of steam at 100C. Under ideal conditions, sun directly overhead (such as at the equator, at noon, during the equinox), and cloudless skies, the solar flux is ~1300 watts per square meter. I have a 1500 Watt electric kettle, so it will evaporate water faster than a square meter of water either in a pond or exposed to the concentrated rays from a square meter of solar panel. Either way, it takes a LOT of energy to evaporate even an ounce of water. When we're talking here about tens of millions of gallons, it will required a HUGE area. Plus, the minerals in a brine solution will slow the evaporative process. Plus the average solar flux over the course of a day is far less than 1300 W/m^2 From this perspective, I don't see concentrating panels offer any advantage in terms of, speed, cost, or surface area. In that case, the only advantage is that the steam can be condensed (via. yet more equipment) and used for later stage purification and/or injection into the ground in order to leach more minerals than what the brine solution already has to offer. There is a L O T less water in canes of sugar than ponds of brine. There may also be another benefit for cane, such as breaking down the cellulose in order to extract sugar.
@@gregparrott Right, but you _can_ concentrate that solar energy using mirrors and lenses to use less surface area, and you can do it in areas where maybe giant open pits would be a bad idea. At the very least, instead of the water evaporating into the air, you can recycle it, collecting it at a near-boiling level and sending it back down to pick up new lithium, retaining a portion of the heat from the process. I'm not saying it would "cost nothing," but it should be considerably faster and have _less_ overall cost to it than the giant pools. It just takes more cost to set up in the first place. Also, as far as sugar goes, they tend to add a lot of water into the process before they then take it back out. The intermediate process is very liquid.
Lithium adalah unsur dengan bahan yang bersifat multi talenta sehingga bisa dibuat untuk perangkat yang berkinerja multi fungsi juga. Kemamapuannya yang sangat adaptif membuatnya berkapasitas besar dalam mengalihkan lalu lintas dalam berbagai frekuensi aneka bentuk gelombang
If your talking about batteries, there are now MANY batteries that get 3,000 or more cycles of use, and they are now highly recycled, with 95% or more of the metals recoverable.
Batteries can be recycled, however it's not economical to do so. If you see Lion batteries getting recycled, it's most likely they're removing the non-lithium components such as copper for the copper electrodes and other metals like cobalt. The actual lithium itself usually gets disposed of, since it's about 5x cheaper just to use the mined stuff.
@@bunnyben5607 Nonsense. BASF, Dupont, LiCycle, Redwood, American Battery Technology and many others will be recycling. They all get 95% or better of the metals back from the packs, which is exponentially better than the initial mining. It's already underway. With their processes, it is now much cheaper to recycle.
Maybe we shouldn’t be waiting for innovations like this to reduce carbon emissions and instead make walkable cities where people don’t need cars to get around.
@@Simon-dm8zv smaller towns can also have a decent percentage of their populations that wouldn’t be reliant on cars either. Most towns historically would have people that ran shops live in town and didn’t require anything besides their own two feet to get where they needed to go. I think there is a strong need for some people to have personal vehicles, people with disabilities, farmers, maintenance workers. But if you work at a bank or a retail shop or a restaurant, etc there is no reason we shouldn’t have cities that would allow you to walk to those places regardless of the city size. For intercity travel and freight could very easily be handled by rail which is far easier to electrify and thrives with walkable cities.
@@nobody4933 promote streets dedicated to walking not cars to improve pedestrian safety, reduce parking lots and garages as they make the distance to walk between places larger, have more missing middle and mixed use housing - think first floor shop front and second/ third floor apartments.
@@nobody4933 He probably means like this: th-cam.com/video/F4kmDxcfR48/w-d-xo.html Something you see very often in Dutch cities for example. Doubt it will happen in the US in the next few decades though.
Meanwhile CATL and BYD are already scaling Sodium battery production that will dramatically impact the demand for lithium chemistries over the next 5 years. Dirt cheap to manufacture on existing lines, and perfect for storage.
Standard Lithium Ltd. has petitioned the Arkansas Oil and Gas Commission to make a royalty payment determination to mineral right owners/land owners for Li products produced by their Pilot Plant with Lanxess tail brine in South Arkansas. Their petition requests the continuing operation of this Plant with sales of the completed Li product. This could be an important development indicating the validity of their processes and chances of commercial development, as I see it.
As EVs are gaining popularity the tech is evolving quickly. So today's Lithium-Ion is LIKELY NOT the end of innovation in regards to Energy Storage (i.e. batteries or fuel). Wow lithium batteries have provided remarkable improvements over lead and nickel cadmium products, the lithium battery technologies still have limitations. First off they do have safety concerns in regards to fires, they are extremely heavy, the charging is slow and the storage is still not at par with the energy density of petroleum products. Energy density is the key. Most products are moved by truck in Western society and a large truck simply cannot be equipped with lithium batteries due to the weight that you would have to add. For every pound of weight the battery adds to the vehicle that is a pound less of supplies the vehicle can transport. To give you a example on how much weight these batteries add to a vehicle a Tesla sedan weighs approximately 800 more pounds curb weight than a gasoline powered Ford F-150 truck! A tractor-trailer that has the power to pull a typical 18-wheel rig outfitted with batteries for the same range as the diesel tanks on a typical rig would add an additional 15-30k pounds (8-12k kilograms) .. 😮 With the breakthroughs of graphene and sodium ion batteries and the revolution of fuel cells powered with hydrogen, we will continue to see the evolution of the electric power and storage of energy for vehicles. The energy density is key. If a sodium ion battery for a hydrogen powered fuel cell power plant can we 50 percent less than a lithium battery system it would be a game-changer and really take electrification of vehicles to the next level. I'm no petroleum Fanboy or an anti lithium battery dude I'm just providing some additional information and pointing out the fact that things change technology evolves and nothing stays the same.
Good overview - they should have included Vulcan Energy (ASX:VUL) in this video as an interesting Geothermal / Sorption-type lithium extracting "DLE" company. Although it was there between the lines I wish they explained more that "DLE" is a misleading/blanket term since there are many types of "DLE" and the "DLE" is only one part of the overall process. Also, there is no such thing as going from brine straight to Lithium product through some magic technique.... many processes before and after the supposed "DLE" in the flow sheet. The overall process needs to be looked at. One of the great features of geothermal and some features specific to Vulcan are.... Heated brine assist the sorption and other processes due to brine already being hot - that is a lot of energy for free. They will also generate electricity for their own use and excess electricity sold - geothermal works day and night. Also provides efficient heating to the surrounding commercial/residential areas. Final conversion of LiCl to Lithium with eletrolysis.... no further reagents needed. Bonus is that they will not be operating in a water scarse area and will produce an end product close to customers. No shipping intermediate or raw materials all over the place for further processing and conversion, limited reagents, no fossil fuels.
Lithium carbonate for lithium IRON batteries. Lithium Hydroxide, expensive , for high performance lithium ION batteries, NCM/NCA. Most EV batteries, at least entry level cars, lithium Iron batteries. Less toxic, cheaper, more cycles and full use of battery, 0-100%. Lithium Iron easier to recycle but less energy dense/little heavier but rare fires.
That's why the lithium manganese phosphate batteries kick ass. They are fire safe like LFP, have a similar lifespan, and higher power density & voltage.
@@5yaron 160 Wh/kg sodium ion already exists (CATL) and they project 200 Wh/kg for their next gen. That's close enough for many electrical vehicles; not every car is a sports car.
Give it up guys. Lithium is yesterday's technology. The Japanese have solid state batteries, and the Chinese have sodium salt batteries, both better than Lithium.
@@demoticshadow2494 yes the joint Tesla/Panasonic jv cell plant the first of its kind in the U.S. opened back in late 2016. Their in house 4680s have been in test cars since 2020, publicly sold since spring 2022 in the awd tx built model y.
Fascinating stuff… lithium and its applications for health and batteries. There needs to be explicit consent for giving and extracting. It’s fascinating, I thought about going back to law school, I ran into a law student from FSU, he said… it depends on whys you want to do with your law degree… International accountability for business and health in a number of fronts. It’s amazing how integrally connected many of these issues really are.
I didn't get the chemical and energy parts ie. requirements of these DLE projects. Now faster extraction ultimately means faster exhaustion of the resource.
What the EV industry is betting on is a Sodium battery that can replace the Li ones. Sodium is much easier to get and table-salt is practically everywhere, not to mention super cheap.
Has anyone done any studies on if it would make sense to put these facilities directly on the same stream as desalination plants as the brine is more concentrated and could potentially have a larger lithium extraction? If so then Southern California, Israel, and the middle east are going to be lithium giants. 10:52
While DLE technology has the potential to be more environmentally friendly and efficient than traditional methods of lithium extraction, there are some potential drawbacks to consider. One drawback is that the selective membrane used in DLE technology can be expensive and may need to be replaced frequently. Additionally, the brine used in DLE technology can contain impurities that can clog or damage the membrane, reducing its effectiveness. Another potential drawback is that DLE technology is not currently as well-established or widely used as traditional methods of lithium extraction. This means that more research and development may be needed to optimize the technology and increase its scalability and cost-effectiveness. Finally, the disposal of extracted brine and other waste materials can also be a potential drawback of DLE technology. If not properly handled, this waste could potentially have negative environmental impacts. Overall, while DLE technology has the potential to be a more sustainable and efficient method of lithium extraction, it's important to consider and address any potential drawbacks in order to ensure that its implementation is as environmentally responsible as possible. Thankyou !
@@aktheuite Some from Gpt, some Google & some from my Own, but as we know with any mordern technologies there will be some drawbacks more or less ! Thankyou 👍
Brine is not inefficient, DLE is projected to cost more and really only saves you time on that first year of evaporation. Brine evaporation is ecologically friendly, it’s controversy is based in politics and ignorance.
The first Sodium batteries release (or released already?) this year. There is 1,000 times more Sodium than Lithium. Also, Sodium batteries don't catch fire as easily. Wouldn't it be wiser to go with Sodium?
Never as 2% of mined Li brine is used to make those1 tonne of EV batteries needing 500,000 tonnes of mined brine - this is not the solution for 8 billion people be ware of the LIes ahead.
I wonder which companies would buy the lithium ore. I know a US company mining in Africa for Lithium ore and are stock piling to sell to a processing plant. I'm not sure if there are USA buyers for lithium ore or if it all goes to China to be processed.
Thats not necessary. There's already plenty of private ventures focused on battery recycling like redwood materials. The government would just use the money to put in their own pockets.
dang this is only happening because of big business. Wish we could just use the lithium for electric public transportation instead of mass produced automobiles that are material demand heavy
0:09 I fail to see how using the sun to do most of the work can be "inefficient". And the space argument does not seam strong either since it is done in a desert. The water argument is more valuable, however the water is not spoiled by the process, just evaporated, so the "ecology disruptive" argument could have been developed. I would like to know how much energy the "new" processes need to operated, and how carbonated is the energy used, and also is the water is "cleaned" after the process or at least re-used. Most of the arguments seam to come from new players, so probably biased, I would have like to hear an academic point of view. Regarding the need of 20 times more lithium, maybe a better solution would be to switch from ICE cars to electric public transportation without batteries (trains, metros, tramways, trolley-buses, etc.), to bicycles and to "walkable cities". With EVs just for people you definitively need cars. And not trucks and SUVs with more than 100 kWh, but efficient sedans with 50 to 60 kWh batteries. It is possible to go everywhere in Europe (and I assume in the US) with a 55 kWh Tesla model 3, so why would we need more kWh per car ? We need to put the money in the infrastructure, with fast charging between cities and low power charging everywhere cars are parked. I may be wrong, but I would have like this video to explain me why, for now I am just convinced that more people try to make more money.
Excellent report. Good job challenging all the wildly optimistic statements from the big players. However, the narrator would benefit from a few lessons from a voice coach.
The clip ended up by saying that the industry is not betting in DLE. Most of supplies will cime from hard rock and evaporation. How do you justify the video's title then?
Lithium production in South America doesn’t have so much to do with the element’s availability in the soil, but with water. The Andes mountains are very dry, but the lithium extraction process requires water in no small amount to bring the element up to the surface in a salty brine-500,000 gallons of water per ton of lithium, according to Wired. In some regions in Chile, 65 percent of water is used up in lithium production, diverting it from local food production. The brine then requires 12 to 18 months to evaporate. Any water returned to the farmers could be tainted with chemicals.
Another core concern lies in the vast wealth that lithium will represent for these smaller, poorer countries when demand starts to escalate. The lengthy evaporation period for the lithium brine can be sped up by heating the water, a process achieved by burning fossil fuels -- defeating the entire purpose of reducing greenhouse emissions in the first place. But when the price is up and the bottleneck forms, the desire for faster, cheaper production may outweigh our ability to maintain environmental standards.
The rise of direct lithium extraction technologies, backed by major companies and automakers, promises a more sustainable and efficient future for lithium mining, eliminating the need for large evaporation ponds.
What if we’re using so much lithium that we eventually run out, due to stupid human demands for electric-everything? Also, we’re literally killing our sun this way. Majority of the world better not be shocked why the world is ending and who’s responsible for it
I think that the Porsch synthetic fuel been made in Chile is a better solution than electric batteries. Extract carbon from the air and makes methanol and is further refined into a synthetic fuel which can be used in existing vehicles. Then we don’t obsolete all the cars in the world.
Anything is better than Li, Li ends up in the water system and only 2% of mined Li brine is used to make a 1 tonne of EV battery needing 500,000 tonnes of mined brine - this is not the solution for 8 billion people be ware of the LIes ahead and investors will be burnt intentionally.
Toyota Japan has already announced their exit from lithium based cars. Saying "this is _not_ the future". New age hippies are too easily suckered by alternatives industries that pose as safe alternatives but are not. The use of 500,000 gallons of water per ton of lithium that gets polluted in the process is not a safe/sustainable solution. Even this process leads to questions about the equipment and parts used that will just yet again create another unsafe industry beside the lithium industry to produce the materials to perform the process. Or to the energy it uses. If it sounds too good to be true it usually is. These are often just get rich quick industries looking to fool us into funding them. Trusting figures and facts about it that were delivered by the industry itself is like allowing elementary students grade their own exams. Be skeptical and look for the scam. Because it usually is.
There is lithium in seawater, and there are scientists looking at extracting it. But it’s at very low concentrations compared with brine pumped through underground lithium formations. May not be economical.
Invest into companies like RecycLiCo who have a proven and patented process that recycles lithium at a 99.99% rate. No water waste, and creates an upcycled product that can be immediately used in batteries
I have zero water lithium refining system, dry system. My system requires no electricity costs, wow my new lithium battery technology crushes these companies. Lol, a ceramic material sheds a proton, to grab the lithium and then a chloride grabs the lithium off the ceramic surface, ready for manufacturer use. 3 materials come to mind, my system is still better.
Another source of lithium-bearing brine is very common and widely dispersed around the drier but populated parts of the world - desalination plants. The day may come when most desal plants have a DLE plant attached.
It makes things a bit more elegant, that so many of those desal plants are located in nations that are looking for their next act, in a world that is increasingly no longer buying their fossil fuels.
Also many geothermal plants could do that.
iam excited. invested in Allkem and Cleantech Lithium and Lake Resources. looking forward to the future.
But they might have low ESG score if didnt have ranbow icons...
Unlike big oil corps with high ESG scores.
@@sn5301679 I only care for the fact that they are great companies. At least for Allkem and Cleantech Lithium I can say that with great certainty. Lake is bad at communication. Iam very happy with Allkem, and very excited about what the Future of Cleantech Lithium might bring. Their communication is great. and the possibility of DLE is enough for me to have a good feeling about nature.
Watching this video made me realize how much I need this watch in my collection. It's absolutely stunning!
Laco Atacama?
What happens to all the metals that are classed as "impurities" in this process? Hopefully they are isolating and using those as well.
lol yea ok😂
LoL 🤣
In brine it's mostly sodium ions
In the US? nah thats what rivers and landfills are for
It depends on the process. In one case, the brine is pulled up, the lithium extracted and the brine goes back to the soil where it was taken from.
There wasn't enough oil for all the new cars 100 years ago and yet somehow we came up with enough. This will be easier than that.
Lilac and their partner Lake Resources just extended their time to production by 3-4 years, when everyone thought they were at the cusp of production in the near future 23/24. Very disappointing. DLE does not appear to be easy. Each location is site and chemical specific and requires and carries a varying volume of challenges.
Same with other lithium producers
Yup because every brine is unique and requires a unique approach
Why don't they use "closed loop" brine systems? Instead of using ponds, just pump the brine through solar-heated pipe networks, raising its temperature near to boiling, then dumped into a "finishing vat" that boils off the remaining water and thoroughly dries the lithium, just like the ponds do. They can even capture the steam and re-condense it to send back for more lithium.
This is similar to how sugar is made.
cost? Letting the sun dry the tons of water is much cheaper. I think the DLE they describe here is another technic that doesnt require so much energy.
@@albex8484 Well, that's why I said they should use solar heating for most of the process, but I have to think that containing the water and not have to use trucks to scoop up the lithium salts would make the process much much faster and more efficient.
2% of mined Li brine is used in every 1 tonne of EV battery needing 500,000 tonnes of mined brine - this is not the solution for 8 billion people be ware of the LIes ahead.
I get what you're saying. And yet, whether solar energy is obtained from concentrating panels or is spread out over a large pond, the heat (energy) of vaporization of water is the same regardless of the means used. Using the metric system, it requires 1 calorie to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water by one degree centigrade, and then it takes 540 calories for the phase change to convert 1 gram of water at 100C to 1 gram of steam at 100C.
Under ideal conditions, sun directly overhead (such as at the equator, at noon, during the equinox), and cloudless skies, the solar flux is ~1300 watts per square meter. I have a 1500 Watt electric kettle, so it will evaporate water faster than a square meter of water either in a pond or exposed to the concentrated rays from a square meter of solar panel. Either way, it takes a LOT of energy to evaporate even an ounce of water. When we're talking here about tens of millions of gallons, it will required a HUGE area. Plus, the minerals in a brine solution will slow the evaporative process. Plus the average solar flux over the course of a day is far less than 1300 W/m^2
From this perspective, I don't see concentrating panels offer any advantage in terms of, speed, cost, or surface area. In that case, the only advantage is that the steam can be condensed (via. yet more equipment) and used for later stage purification and/or injection into the ground in order to leach more minerals than what the brine solution already has to offer.
There is a L O T less water in canes of sugar than ponds of brine. There may also be another benefit for cane, such as breaking down the cellulose in order to extract sugar.
@@gregparrott Right, but you _can_ concentrate that solar energy using mirrors and lenses to use less surface area, and you can do it in areas where maybe giant open pits would be a bad idea. At the very least, instead of the water evaporating into the air, you can recycle it, collecting it at a near-boiling level and sending it back down to pick up new lithium, retaining a portion of the heat from the process. I'm not saying it would "cost nothing," but it should be considerably faster and have _less_ overall cost to it than the giant pools. It just takes more cost to set up in the first place.
Also, as far as sugar goes, they tend to add a lot of water into the process before they then take it back out. The intermediate process is very liquid.
Great! I was just thinking we need more patents and monopolies!
Nice summary of the challenges facing lithium supply
🙏🙏🙏wait and see it shall all change
Lithium adalah unsur dengan bahan yang bersifat multi talenta sehingga bisa dibuat untuk perangkat yang berkinerja multi fungsi juga. Kemamapuannya yang sangat adaptif membuatnya berkapasitas besar dalam mengalihkan lalu lintas dalam berbagai frekuensi aneka bentuk gelombang
I invested into standard lithium stock. Hopefully good return soon
What about MOFs, I remember hearing about it basically being a mebrane that functions like a filter seperating the lithium out if the brine.
Clogging issues
@@cybertrk makes sense clogging makes it inefficient.
Brings to mind the old adage necessity is the mother of invention
It's good to know this. I hope they will solve the other problems of lithium especially the low useful life and the e-waste problem.
You cant make power and have some sort f enviromental impact.
If your talking about batteries, there are now MANY batteries that get 3,000 or more cycles of use, and they are now highly recycled, with 95% or more of the metals recoverable.
e-wastes is another issue, a battery is made of metals, so it can be recycled.
Batteries can be recycled, however it's not economical to do so. If you see Lion batteries getting recycled, it's most likely they're removing the non-lithium components such as copper for the copper electrodes and other metals like cobalt. The actual lithium itself usually gets disposed of, since it's about 5x cheaper just to use the mined stuff.
@@bunnyben5607 Nonsense. BASF, Dupont, LiCycle, Redwood, American Battery Technology and many others will be recycling. They all get 95% or better of the metals back from the packs, which is exponentially better than the initial mining. It's already underway.
With their processes, it is now much cheaper to recycle.
I'll stick with my Llama for my daily commute. it only takes grass and water!
And it spits at potential llama thieves! Excellent security system
Maybe we shouldn’t be waiting for innovations like this to reduce carbon emissions and instead make walkable cities where people don’t need cars to get around.
Sure, cities don’t need cars. Outside the cities though…
@@Simon-dm8zv smaller towns can also have a decent percentage of their populations that wouldn’t be reliant on cars either. Most towns historically would have people that ran shops live in town and didn’t require anything besides their own two feet to get where they needed to go. I think there is a strong need for some people to have personal vehicles, people with disabilities, farmers, maintenance workers. But if you work at a bank or a retail shop or a restaurant, etc there is no reason we shouldn’t have cities that would allow you to walk to those places regardless of the city size. For intercity travel and freight could very easily be handled by rail which is far easier to electrify and thrives with walkable cities.
A "walkable city" like what do you mean exactly? Are you gonna shrink the cities???make the sidewalks shorter? I don't get it...
@@nobody4933 promote streets dedicated to walking not cars to improve pedestrian safety, reduce parking lots and garages as they make the distance to walk between places larger, have more missing middle and mixed use housing - think first floor shop front and second/ third floor apartments.
@@nobody4933 He probably means like this: th-cam.com/video/F4kmDxcfR48/w-d-xo.html
Something you see very often in Dutch cities for example. Doubt it will happen in the US in the next few decades though.
Another expensive white powder. Demand is high, good to see new ideas on supply.
Meanwhile CATL and BYD are already scaling Sodium battery production that will dramatically impact the demand for lithium chemistries over the next 5 years. Dirt cheap to manufacture on existing lines, and perfect for storage.
Standard Lithium Ltd. has petitioned the Arkansas Oil and Gas Commission to make a royalty payment determination to mineral right owners/land owners for Li products produced by their Pilot Plant with Lanxess tail brine in South Arkansas. Their petition requests the continuing operation of this Plant with sales of the completed Li product. This could be an important development indicating the validity of their processes and chances of commercial development, as I see it.
I support lithium extraction from salts. However I believe the opportunity to extract water by evaporation at the same time should be taken.
As EVs are gaining popularity the tech is evolving quickly. So today's Lithium-Ion is LIKELY NOT the end of innovation in regards to Energy Storage (i.e. batteries or fuel).
Wow lithium batteries have provided remarkable improvements over lead and nickel cadmium products, the lithium battery technologies still have limitations. First off they do have safety concerns in regards to fires, they are extremely heavy, the charging is slow and the storage is still not at par with the energy density of petroleum products. Energy density is the key. Most products are moved by truck in Western society and a large truck simply cannot be equipped with lithium batteries due to the weight that you would have to add. For every pound of weight the battery adds to the vehicle that is a pound less of supplies the vehicle can transport. To give you a example on how much weight these batteries add to a vehicle a Tesla sedan weighs approximately 800 more pounds curb weight than a gasoline powered Ford F-150 truck!
A tractor-trailer that has the power to pull a typical 18-wheel rig outfitted with batteries for the same range as the diesel tanks on a typical rig would add an additional 15-30k pounds (8-12k kilograms) .. 😮
With the breakthroughs of graphene and sodium ion batteries and the revolution of fuel cells powered with hydrogen, we will continue to see the evolution of the electric power and storage of energy for vehicles. The energy density is key. If a sodium ion battery for a hydrogen powered fuel cell power plant can we 50 percent less than a lithium battery system it would be a game-changer and really take electrification of vehicles to the next level. I'm no petroleum Fanboy or an anti lithium battery dude I'm just providing some additional information and pointing out the fact that things change technology evolves and nothing stays the same.
Lithium is everywhere, it's the most plentiful element on the planet.
Good overview - they should have included Vulcan Energy (ASX:VUL) in this video as an interesting Geothermal / Sorption-type lithium extracting "DLE" company.
Although it was there between the lines I wish they explained more that "DLE" is a misleading/blanket term since there are many types of "DLE" and the "DLE" is only one part of the overall process.
Also, there is no such thing as going from brine straight to Lithium product through some magic technique.... many processes before and after the supposed "DLE" in the flow sheet.
The overall process needs to be looked at.
One of the great features of geothermal and some features specific to Vulcan are....
Heated brine assist the sorption and other processes due to brine already being hot - that is a lot of energy for free.
They will also generate electricity for their own use and excess electricity sold - geothermal works day and night.
Also provides efficient heating to the surrounding commercial/residential areas.
Final conversion of LiCl to Lithium with eletrolysis.... no further reagents needed.
Bonus is that they will not be operating in a water scarse area and will produce an end product close to customers.
No shipping intermediate or raw materials all over the place for further processing and conversion, limited reagents, no fossil fuels.
lol Vulcan Energy didn't pay them.
All my Li stocks crached this July. 😂🎉
Lithium carbonate for lithium IRON batteries. Lithium Hydroxide, expensive , for high performance lithium ION batteries, NCM/NCA. Most EV batteries, at least entry level cars, lithium Iron batteries. Less toxic, cheaper, more cycles and full use of battery, 0-100%. Lithium Iron easier to recycle but less energy dense/little heavier but rare fires.
That's why the lithium manganese phosphate batteries kick ass. They are fire safe like LFP, have a similar lifespan, and higher power density & voltage.
Perhaps, just perhaps there’s chances for better. Honesty and kindness.
Hope it brings down the price of evs for the end consumer, i'd never spend more than 20k on a car if i live where there's viable public transport.
20k is easily doable soon. Especially used.
It will surely bring down costs for the EV manufacturer, but those savings will not be passed on to the consumer. They never are.
@@markdc1145 Oh yes they are. Haven’t you heard of the recent EV price war?
Just don't buy a truck or a SUV. The smaller the car, the more efficient, the less battery you need, and then you have a quite cheaper car.
Very good succinct and informative
But you still can't explain to me logically how electric vehicles are better for the environment because they are not
Soft plastics food packaging is the future for car batteries.
Sodium ion and solid state batteries are expected to take over from Lithium within a decade.
Did you know that solid state batteries are made with Lithium and may even require more of it than Lithium-ion....
Not if they cant get more capacitiy
@@5yaron 160 Wh/kg sodium ion already exists (CATL) and they project 200 Wh/kg for their next gen. That's close enough for many electrical vehicles; not every car is a sports car.
Thank you for making this!
Give it up guys. Lithium is yesterday's technology. The Japanese have solid state batteries, and the Chinese have sodium salt batteries, both better than Lithium.
Strange there was no mention of that company building a plant in Corpus Christi?
Oh... Wait!
Begins with T ends with A, has esl in the middle? Is the current true world's ev leader just having passed 4,500,000 ev sales globally. 😀
Does Tesla make batteries?
@@demoticshadow2494 yes the joint Tesla/Panasonic jv cell plant the first of its kind in the U.S. opened back in late 2016.
Their in house 4680s have been in test cars since 2020, publicly sold since spring 2022 in the awd tx built model y.
DLE , why are none of the billion dollar lithium companies doing it at scale?? probably because it doesn't work
Very beautiful video thank you❤❤❤
Thanks for sharing
@ 0:45 I smell supply and demand for lithium. Sounds like opportunities in the lithium stocks!
Fascinating stuff… lithium and its applications for health and batteries. There needs to be explicit consent for giving and extracting. It’s fascinating, I thought about going back to law school, I ran into a law student from FSU, he said… it depends on whys you want to do with your law degree…
International accountability for business and health in a number of fronts. It’s amazing how integrally connected many of these issues really are.
Great video as usual
I didn't get the chemical and energy parts ie. requirements of these DLE projects. Now faster extraction ultimately means faster exhaustion of the resource.
CNBC
What the EV industry is betting on is a Sodium battery that can replace the Li ones. Sodium is much easier to get and table-salt is practically everywhere, not to mention super cheap.
Invent it then
Battery sodium is mostly mined from more abundant sodium oxides. Not the sodium-chloride from sea salt.
@@WigneyR Sodium batteries exist, they just have anywhere near the energy density needed for automotive. At least for now.
@@johnbash-on-ger Yep, the problem of the highly toxic Cl2 waste is what prevents table salt from being used.
SAVE THE SODIUM...!!! (for my movie popcorn)
Let’s go lithium
Afghanistan have the largest mine of lithium metal,
We need investment company for this in cheap price.
Has anyone done any studies on if it would make sense to put these facilities directly on the same stream as desalination plants as the brine is more concentrated and could potentially have a larger lithium extraction? If so then Southern California, Israel, and the middle east are going to be lithium giants. 10:52
Nevada too now
In 10 years seems like they won’t need nearly as much lithium ev sales has already plummeted
The breakthrough could be better supply of Lithium or new types of batteries that use no Lithium or very small amounts.
they left out recycling - see Redwood ind. how about using what is injected back into the ground?
Very interesting. Looks like lithium is far from finished.
While DLE technology has the potential to be more environmentally friendly and efficient than traditional methods of lithium extraction, there are some potential drawbacks to consider.
One drawback is that the selective membrane used in DLE technology can be expensive and may need to be replaced frequently. Additionally, the brine used in DLE technology can contain impurities that can clog or damage the membrane, reducing its effectiveness.
Another potential drawback is that DLE technology is not currently as well-established or widely used as traditional methods of lithium extraction. This means that more research and development may be needed to optimize the technology and increase its scalability and cost-effectiveness.
Finally, the disposal of extracted brine and other waste materials can also be a potential drawback of DLE technology. If not properly handled, this waste could potentially have negative environmental impacts.
Overall, while DLE technology has the potential to be a more sustainable and efficient method of lithium extraction, it's important to consider and address any potential drawbacks in order to ensure that its implementation is as environmentally responsible as possible. Thankyou !
is this a ChatGPT reply?
@@aktheuite Some from Gpt, some Google & some from my Own, but as we know with any mordern technologies there will be some drawbacks more or less !
Thankyou 👍
Thanks bot.
@@ryanelliott4594 ❤️👍
Gpt
Brine is not inefficient, DLE is projected to cost more and really only saves you time on that first year of evaporation. Brine evaporation is ecologically friendly, it’s controversy is based in politics and ignorance.
Im hopeful. Mining shouldnt be so damaging.
The first Sodium batteries release (or released already?) this year. There is 1,000 times more Sodium than Lithium. Also, Sodium batteries don't catch fire as easily. Wouldn't it be wiser to go with Sodium?
energy density and future of solid state battery
They probably will eventually. They have to retool their battery factories to make use of the new resource.
The technology just isn't there yet. But I have no doubt by the end of the decade we'll be using sodium batteries in alot of things.
@@Funktastico sodium will have higher density than today's lithium
@@Yoyo-vt4hc not yet. What is important is now, not what it could be in the future.
Does Direct Lithium Extraction (DLE) reduce the amount of CO2 released into the atmosphere? Is it carbon negative?
Never as 2% of mined Li brine is used to make those1 tonne of EV batteries needing 500,000 tonnes of mined brine - this is not the solution for 8 billion people be ware of the LIes ahead.
THERE'S (A LOT OF LITHIUM) IN
SAN JACINTO NEAR GOLD BASE. THAT'S NEAR HEMET,CALIFORNIA.
What if my massive potash mine produces so much brine I can't figure out what to do with I and I pump it into a disposal well?
Let’s go E3!!!!!!!
Great report
Great overview
Ford and GM adopt the NACS connector as standard, death to the CCS connector!!!
I wonder which companies would buy the lithium ore. I know a US company mining in Africa for Lithium ore and are stock piling to sell to a processing plant. I'm not sure if there are USA buyers for lithium ore or if it all goes to China to be processed.
Hard rock is soooooo much simpler, WA is going to be huge!
Mining companies should have to give a percentage of their revenues to a government fund used to promote recycling
Thats not necessary. There's already plenty of private ventures focused on battery recycling like redwood materials. The government would just use the money to put in their own pockets.
@@Genzphilosopher redwood is private
@@damatricrayton8942 IK, that's what I said lol.
@@Genzphilosopher sorry you did I'm old! Do you think SLI will go bankrupt
So tax companies which are instrumental in driving the future energy storage medium to replace oil? Seems counterproductive to me.
Let's go! ⚡️
Hydrogen is the ultimate power source
Demands remaining, this will be supplemental in supply not a replacement for lithiun ore mining.
Will these extractions push Lithium price down & make miners less profitable?
I figure miners will only increase in profit if demand keeps going up
@issenvan1050
No, man. That’s just some dumb American strategy
@@bolbiitp7850 ?
Recycled batteries as lithium source was ignored completely?
dang this is only happening because of big business. Wish we could just use the lithium for electric public transportation instead of mass produced automobiles that are material demand heavy
Why do you think this is not happening? The market for electric busses is growing massively.
direct lithium extraction will exhaust lithium easily. make batteries where lithium and sodium are mixed so less lithium is used
What about mineral accretion through electrolysis.
Perfect fit to the fracking industry it seems ^^.
0:09 I fail to see how using the sun to do most of the work can be "inefficient". And the space argument does not seam strong either since it is done in a desert. The water argument is more valuable, however the water is not spoiled by the process, just evaporated, so the "ecology disruptive" argument could have been developed. I would like to know how much energy the "new" processes need to operated, and how carbonated is the energy used, and also is the water is "cleaned" after the process or at least re-used. Most of the arguments seam to come from new players, so probably biased, I would have like to hear an academic point of view. Regarding the need of 20 times more lithium, maybe a better solution would be to switch from ICE cars to electric public transportation without batteries (trains, metros, tramways, trolley-buses, etc.), to bicycles and to "walkable cities". With EVs just for people you definitively need cars. And not trucks and SUVs with more than 100 kWh, but efficient sedans with 50 to 60 kWh batteries. It is possible to go everywhere in Europe (and I assume in the US) with a 55 kWh Tesla model 3, so why would we need more kWh per car ? We need to put the money in the infrastructure, with fast charging between cities and low power charging everywhere cars are parked. I may be wrong, but I would have like this video to explain me why, for now I am just convinced that more people try to make more money.
Good video.
Just as Sodium Ion based battery technology hits the commercial market...
Slipping in the stock prices on these lithium companies seems mor e like an ad than news.
E3 in Alberta Canada has their DLE pilot up and running making lithium from the brine in actual real well conditions.
Excellent report. Good job challenging all the wildly optimistic statements from the big players. However, the narrator would benefit from a few lessons from a voice coach.
I second the voice coach recommendation. Otherwise, a great report.
The clip ended up by saying that the industry is not betting in DLE. Most of supplies will cime from hard rock and evaporation. How do you justify the video's title then?
why they dont use evap water is a question.
Lithium production in South America doesn’t have so much to do with the element’s availability in the soil, but with water. The Andes mountains are very dry, but the lithium extraction process requires water in no small amount to bring the element up to the surface in a salty brine-500,000 gallons of water per ton of lithium, according to Wired. In some regions in Chile, 65 percent of water is used up in lithium production, diverting it from local food production. The brine then requires 12 to 18 months to evaporate. Any water returned to the farmers could be tainted with chemicals.
Another core concern lies in the vast wealth that lithium will represent for these smaller, poorer countries when demand starts to escalate. The lengthy evaporation period for the lithium brine can be sped up by heating the water, a process achieved by burning fossil fuels -- defeating the entire purpose of reducing greenhouse emissions in the first place. But when the price is up and the bottleneck forms, the desire for faster, cheaper production may outweigh our ability to maintain environmental standards.
i didnt hear the cost of dle vs traditional methods
did this tech become obsolete with the disclosure of the huge lithium discovery in nevada ?
The rise of direct lithium extraction technologies, backed by major companies and automakers, promises a more sustainable and efficient future for lithium mining, eliminating the need for large evaporation ponds.
What if we’re using so much lithium that we eventually run out, due to stupid human demands for electric-everything?
Also, we’re literally killing our sun this way.
Majority of the world better not be shocked why the world is ending and who’s responsible for it
I think that the Porsch synthetic fuel been made in Chile is a better solution than electric batteries. Extract carbon from the air and makes methanol and is further refined into a synthetic fuel which can be used in existing vehicles. Then we don’t obsolete all the cars in the world.
Anything is better than Li, Li ends up in the water system and only 2% of mined Li brine is used to make a 1 tonne of EV battery needing 500,000 tonnes of mined brine - this is not the solution for 8 billion people be ware of the LIes ahead and investors will be burnt intentionally.
Toyota Japan has already announced their exit from lithium based cars. Saying "this is _not_ the future".
New age hippies are too easily suckered by alternatives industries that pose as safe alternatives but are not. The use of 500,000 gallons of water per ton of lithium that gets polluted in the process is not a safe/sustainable solution. Even this process leads to questions about the equipment and parts used that will just yet again create another unsafe industry beside the lithium industry to produce the materials to perform the process. Or to the energy it uses. If it sounds too good to be true it usually is. These are often just get rich quick industries looking to fool us into funding them. Trusting figures and facts about it that were delivered by the industry itself is like allowing elementary students grade their own exams. Be skeptical and look for the scam. Because it usually is.
Just dump money into sodium research to save the water and pollution.
hydrogen *
sodium is the right way forward
Sodium is no where near ready for wide spread vehicle use. Lithium will remain the best technology for quite a while.
@@JDMHaze Hydrogen is too inefficient
These brines are are saltier than ocean water and evaporation is powered by the sun. Water use and pollution are not an issue.
🇺🇲TESLA LITHIUM - TEXAS⛏️ 🇺🇲
Standard lithium bouncing back.
Maybe make the batteries serviceable? Don't make them so inaccessible like elon?
This video is already set on 2x
How much lithium is in the brine that comes from desalination compared to underground brine.
Your question doesn’t make sense because everything is variable
@@cybertrk Then give an upper and lower bound. You could start by naming the lithium content of sea water.
There is lithium in seawater, and there are scientists looking at extracting it. But it’s at very low concentrations compared with brine pumped through underground lithium formations. May not be economical.
@@DiamondJim22 that is why I ask about desalination because I am wondering if the brine from that would be a option 🤔
Invest into companies like RecycLiCo who have a proven and patented process that recycles lithium at a 99.99% rate. No water waste, and creates an upcycled product that can be immediately used in batteries
nice
Too eager to be acquired = red flag
I have zero water lithium refining system, dry system. My system requires no electricity costs, wow my new lithium battery technology crushes these companies. Lol, a ceramic material sheds a proton, to grab the lithium and then a chloride grabs the lithium off the ceramic surface, ready for manufacturer use. 3 materials come to mind, my system is still better.
I would think there would be some way to produce lithium AND freshwater, from brine, rather than consuming freshwater.
Excellent idea! When will you have a demonstration plant ready to start up?
there is . its called "not profitable" so no one does it.
Brine is the worst thing to produce fresh water from. It is way more energy intensive than sea water.
I love CNBC
LITHIUM IS A FOSSIL FUEL. OIL IS A MINERAL. IT DOESN’T MATTER HOW ITS MINED, IT STILL ISN’T GREEN.
BUT FAR GREENER
What about the pour kids mining cobalt
One more reason to focus on hydrogen fuel cell technology. EV’s can’t scale to present ICE numbers.