Total noob here. I knew I'd find the right advice here on why I kept stalling out-too many energy consuming turns. It takes self discipline to break off and climb when you instinctively 'want to get that kill'. It's going to take dedication learning this game.
In truth, I am a poor fighter pilot, but excellent bomber pilot. I understand the concepts, and practice them, but you are right: target fixation gets you. If you watch Sherrif he will be up in space and zoom and boom using his energy to zoom back up without engaging in a turning fight. Eric Hartmann would never hang around duelling. He would attack only what he knew he could kill on the first attempt.
@@colninny8769 This game has opened up a large area of thought for me in that I thought WW2 fighter pilots simply dove in or got into furballs simply positioning themselves for kill shots. Not true. It's a chess game in which the pilots that survive are able to be several steps ahead or simply not engaging when they don't see an advantage.
#excellentVideo I learned quite a bit. Question: would this principle still apply to a Spitfire (ie. high turn-rate) and even a Biplane slower whom turns fast but can get guns on target quick? In your video I did not see you throttle down to turn or use flaps to turn -- When is best situation to use throttle down and\ or flaps? thanks
Oh boy. There are so many nuances and so many variations depending on so many factors. Assume you are flying two identical aircraft against each other. How does one get the edge over the other in a climb, in a turn, in a decent? Each aircraft behaves differently. Best advice is to join a sqn online and follow their lead. There are so many good pilots out there happy to teach you. Combat Box has an excellent training server where you can dogfight ai and human opponents. Some concepts are covered in my latest video: th-cam.com/video/578SXSaqW-I/w-d-xo.html Air Gunnery
Hi Skybound, Not pesky stuff at all :) Correct, this is the vanilla version for novices. Icons are on in the vid for visual reference. Purists should take the concepts and add the CEM into the equation to fly the machine to its max. New pilots have enough to think about, as you know, when they meet a seasoned opponent, and I have 3 CEM vids to help them make that leap forward.
The issue now is everyone is pulling so hard you cant afford to energy fight, the margins are too small. And then everyone's gotten so good at gunnery too, seeing 30mm 1km snipes left right and center. I personally don't have any issues, but I'm seeing a lot of newbies struggle in a very competitive meta for IL-2, DCS and WT.
What a good Russian pilot would do is do snap roll as you close in, since you are so fast, if you miss and end up go in front of him, and he will use that 1~2 second of time while you are still within his gun range to shoot you down. I got shot down (in 109 or Fw190) by IL2 a couple of times that way.
As with all our videos, it's based on our experience and conceptions at the time. We've all gained a lot of knowledge since that video and you have many that clearly enlighten on the art, and for which I often give you credit...
Hi Sheriff, I enjoy watching IL2 videos that go deeper into the underlying principles that take place during different examples of dogfights, one of the reasons why I enjoy watching, among others, your videos. I appreciate your understanding of these principles demonstrated and expressed in your videos and it is because of this that I would be very interested in hearing or seeing a further explanation what elements in this video are incorrect to your opinion and why. I'd very much appreciate your reaction because, as a beginning pilot, it is not as evident which parts are so clearly wrong; I would entirely be capable of flying similarly as portrayed in this video, oblivious of any (mind boggling :) mistakes I am making.
@@Boslandschap1 Bos Landschap He is telling you how to conserve energy at the beginning, but he is absolutely not conserving any energy in the video. He says that does not want to turn with that guy to conserve energy but does that for way to long. At that point he almost has no energy advantage anymore, only positional advantage. He is saved by the fact that he was in the offense in the first place. The opponent is mediocre at best. Not that this is his fault, but a good pilot would have shown him how much energy he really has. 0:45 turn turn turn turn He should have gone up, way way way earlier to really conserve energy. Even after he took a shot, which had no chance of hitting, he continues to turn for a few seconds, bleeding even more speed. Ah and I like the fact, that while all doing this he caries around a 50kg bomb. He is right that turning bleeds speed but to look at at particular speed to stop turning is the wrong approach. Against some energy you might even want to fly slower. For example when you fight a 190 in a Spitfire. To start climbing when your break off the attack as a general rule is super dangerous, since you dont know if a third is there. And you invite that guy by a steep climb. 3:00 steep attack and then turn turn turn again. If you really want to get the guy, cut the throttle and turn, or go through. A better enemy would have been able to turn this around, by barrel rolling in the same direction. As ninny says correctly he bled of speed in that turn. That was unnecessary. "when in doubt climb and reassess" I would say "fly away, climb and then reassess" 5:50 If the FN would have seen him there. He says correctly that the La-5 is the bigger threat. The chart he shows at 6:24 is not showing the correct La5 sub type. he is fighting a La-5FN which is much much much faster than the La5 S.8 and MUUUUCh faster than the Bf 109 F-4. The entire graph is bonkers. The F-4 does not reach 590 kph on the deck, that looks more like Bf 109 K-4... I really dont know. He recommends, to climb against the enemies he is facing, which is technically a good idea, but not in the situation shown. Since the enemy has so much more energy. (the enemy is faster and higher) he just could dictate the fight and shoot ninny down when he tries to climb. But he himself ditches all the ideas of climbing or fighting and just says "well fuck it maybe i get one of these guys" 7:20 Lucky that the La-5FN pilot is crap too. To conclude: He never really exploited his energy advantage Even bled a lot of E Never really scored a hit on the enemy Wrongly assessed the enemy aircraft Showed a weird graph which makes no sense I really dont want to hate and its nothing personal, but if you call your tutorials "critical" or "definitive" you better fact check, or and have the dignity to judge your own skill level. Nothing wrong with teaching and not beeing the best pilot of the world, I am not the best. But when I am not sure, i tell people. Dunno if that is still the case in more recent videos. Nothing personal, really not.
Great, thanks for your detailed feedback, I absolutely appreciate it, especially because you took the time to name the specifics! After typing my post yesterday, I had a look at your video about energy fighting that I watched months ago and comparing these with your comment is incredibly useful because from my understanding, both videos illustrate the same principles. Ninny's video in combination with your detailed comment and your video helped me get a better understanding of the finer details of executing energy fighting correctly. For this, I want to thank you as well as Col Ninny. Comparing the videos in combination with your feedback, my understanding the principles are sound in Col Ninny's video (hence my initial surprise of your reaction) and it is mostly the execution and misidentification of the energy cost or conservation of the displayed manoeuvres, mistakes I am very much capable of making myself, lacking the experience. > but if you call your tutorials "critical" or "definitive" you better fact check, or *and have the dignity to judge your own skill level*. I know, I know, I tend to be very cautious myself when making statements but as you know, without getting too philosophical, it is not always easy for people to realise when you don't know. If I remember correctly, when Dr. David Dunning (from the Dumming-Kruger effect) was asked in a Reddit AMA if he himself was subject to the DKE he mentioned: > I think by definition I can’t catch myself in many of the biases I’ve described in research. There is always going to be some DKE error I don’t see. And, by definition, self-deception means you have no awareness that you are authoring a belief mostly because it is congenial to you and your beliefs. I know we're deviating here, but here is his advice how to be the best prepared if you're interested: www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/2m6d68/science_ama_seriesim_david_dunning_a_social/cm1jnlc/ and www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/2m6d68/science_ama_seriesim_david_dunning_a_social/cm1jkdz/ Back to energy fighting, MagzTV mentioned in his video that every planes are energy fighters. I like that approach as it illustrates that energy is a major factor in _all_ dogfights. Feel free to comment. Finally, I am very partial to IL-2 Flying Circus. As these planes have barely enough energy to get in the air (I exaggerate somewhat), losing energy seemingly has that more impact as it is even harder to get it back, making the combat very strategic. I wouldn't mind seeing you have a go at the WWI crates, any chance you will some day?
Video was critiqued already but i just want to add that gunnery shown here was really bad, just instinctively it feels like cannon is going to miss like that. Four or five passes against enemy that just turns is way too much.
Total noob here. I knew I'd find the right advice here on why I kept stalling out-too many energy consuming turns. It takes self discipline to break off and climb when you instinctively 'want to get that kill'. It's going to take dedication learning this game.
In truth, I am a poor fighter pilot, but excellent bomber pilot. I understand the concepts, and practice them, but you are right: target fixation gets you. If you watch Sherrif he will be up in space and zoom and boom using his energy to zoom back up without engaging in a turning fight. Eric Hartmann would never hang around duelling. He would attack only what he knew he could kill on the first attempt.
@@colninny8769 This game has opened up a large area of thought for me in that I thought WW2 fighter pilots simply dove in or got into furballs simply positioning themselves for kill shots. Not true. It's a chess game in which the pilots that survive are able to be several steps ahead or simply not engaging when they don't see an advantage.
Very helpful advice for a noob like me. Thanks a lot!
The difference between where you are now, and me, is about 3000 hrs :) keep going!
#excellentVideo
I learned quite a bit.
Question: would this principle still apply to a Spitfire (ie. high turn-rate) and even a Biplane slower whom turns fast but can get guns on target quick?
In your video I did not see you throttle down to turn or use flaps to turn -- When is best situation to use throttle down and\ or flaps?
thanks
Oh boy. There are so many nuances and so many variations depending on so many factors. Assume you are flying two identical aircraft against each other. How does one get the edge over the other in a climb, in a turn, in a decent? Each aircraft behaves differently. Best advice is to join a sqn online and follow their lead. There are so many good pilots out there happy to teach you. Combat Box has an excellent training server where you can dogfight ai and human opponents. Some concepts are covered in my latest video: th-cam.com/video/578SXSaqW-I/w-d-xo.html Air Gunnery
let me know how you do.
thanks for the vid buddy, fighting Messerschmitts is so annoying when they have that climb.
There are many videos out there that strive to show this concept better than I. If you think the K4 climbs fast, try chasing a 262 :)
Great info.
thank you. There are far newer videos now on the same topic.
Ayo my question is at the start how are you doing that amount of tight turns without going into a flatspin?
You are always in a coordinated turn (ball centered) see my vid on Yaw control :)
Hi Skybound, Not pesky stuff at all :) Correct, this is the vanilla version for novices. Icons are on in the vid for visual reference. Purists should take the concepts and add the CEM into the equation to fly the machine to its max. New pilots have enough to think about, as you know, when they meet a seasoned opponent, and I have 3 CEM vids to help them make that leap forward.
Thanks bro, i will always watch this video because im thinking about buying IL-2
and did you. It's on sale now... steam
@@colninny8769 i actually did, bought the base game, im afraid to play it
@@bogardaxelcruzgomez4977 don't be. I have many vids on how to set up your controllers, how to fly, and how to get good at it.
@@bogardaxelcruzgomez4977”afraid to play it”? Lol??! Just go. You would be terrified then of playing dcs
The issue now is everyone is pulling so hard you cant afford to energy fight, the margins are too small.
And then everyone's gotten so good at gunnery too, seeing 30mm 1km snipes left right and center.
I personally don't have any issues, but I'm seeing a lot of newbies struggle in a very competitive meta for IL-2, DCS and WT.
it ain't easy for sure. sobering to think in real life, you only had ONE chance to get it right!
What a good Russian pilot would do is do snap roll as you close in, since you are so fast, if you miss and end up go in front of him, and he will use that 1~2 second of time while you are still within his gun range to shoot you down. I got shot down (in 109 or Fw190) by IL2 a couple of times that way.
Good to know. Thx
Thanks
You're welcome 100 more to watch if you are keen!
what are the specs of your pc? I am thinking of buying this game and I would appreciate it.
Recommend going to the forum to discuss specs: forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/163-col-ninnys-how-to-fly-tutorials-for-new-and-advanced-players/
Anyone experiencing audio issues with this video?
@@isonnol thanks for your comments. I uograded my system since that video. Hopefully there are improvements all around
Good video.
Thank you, Danny
Are you Australian?
African...
Late to the party, but there is so much wrong in this video it boggles my mind.
As with all our videos, it's based on our experience and conceptions at the time. We've all gained a lot of knowledge since that video and you have many that clearly enlighten on the art, and for which I often give you credit...
Hi Sheriff, I enjoy watching IL2 videos that go deeper into the underlying principles that take place during different examples of dogfights, one of the reasons why I enjoy watching, among others, your videos. I appreciate your understanding of these principles demonstrated and expressed in your videos and it is because of this that I would be very interested in hearing or seeing a further explanation what elements in this video are incorrect to your opinion and why. I'd very much appreciate your reaction because, as a beginning pilot, it is not as evident which parts are so clearly wrong; I would entirely be capable of flying similarly as portrayed in this video, oblivious of any (mind boggling :) mistakes I am making.
@@Boslandschap1 Bos Landschap He is telling you how to conserve energy at the beginning, but he is absolutely not conserving any energy in the video. He says that does not want to turn with that guy to conserve energy but does that for way to long. At that point he almost has no energy advantage anymore, only positional advantage. He is saved by the fact that he was in the offense in the first place. The opponent is mediocre at best. Not that this is his fault, but a good pilot would have shown him how much energy he really has.
0:45 turn turn turn turn
He should have gone up, way way way earlier to really conserve energy. Even after he took a shot, which had no chance of hitting, he continues to turn for a few seconds, bleeding even more speed.
Ah and I like the fact, that while all doing this he caries around a 50kg bomb.
He is right that turning bleeds speed but to look at at particular speed to stop turning is the wrong approach. Against some energy you might even want to fly slower. For example when you fight a 190 in a Spitfire.
To start climbing when your break off the attack as a general rule is super dangerous, since you dont know if a third is there. And you invite that guy by a steep climb.
3:00 steep attack and then turn turn turn again. If you really want to get the guy, cut the throttle and turn, or go through.
A better enemy would have been able to turn this around, by barrel rolling in the same direction. As ninny says correctly he bled of speed in that turn. That was unnecessary.
"when in doubt climb and reassess" I would say "fly away, climb and then reassess" 5:50 If the FN would have seen him there.
He says correctly that the La-5 is the bigger threat. The chart he shows at 6:24 is not showing the correct La5 sub type. he is fighting a La-5FN which is much much much faster than the La5 S.8 and MUUUUCh faster than the Bf 109 F-4. The entire graph is bonkers. The F-4 does not reach 590 kph on the deck, that looks more like Bf 109 K-4... I really dont know.
He recommends, to climb against the enemies he is facing, which is technically a good idea, but not in the situation shown. Since the enemy has so much more energy.
(the enemy is faster and higher) he just could dictate the fight and shoot ninny down when he tries to climb.
But he himself ditches all the ideas of climbing or fighting and just says "well fuck it maybe i get one of these guys"
7:20 Lucky that the La-5FN pilot is crap too.
To conclude:
He never really exploited his energy advantage
Even bled a lot of E
Never really scored a hit on the enemy
Wrongly assessed the enemy aircraft
Showed a weird graph which makes no sense
I really dont want to hate and its nothing personal, but if you call your tutorials "critical" or "definitive" you better fact check, or and have the dignity to judge your own skill level.
Nothing wrong with teaching and not beeing the best pilot of the world, I am not the best. But when I am not sure, i tell people.
Dunno if that is still the case in more recent videos. Nothing personal, really not.
Great, thanks for your detailed feedback, I absolutely appreciate it, especially because you took the time to name the specifics! After typing my post yesterday, I had a look at your video about energy fighting that I watched months ago and comparing these with your comment is incredibly useful because from my understanding, both videos illustrate the same principles. Ninny's video in combination with your detailed comment and your video helped me get a better understanding of the finer details of executing energy fighting correctly. For this, I want to thank you as well as Col Ninny.
Comparing the videos in combination with your feedback, my understanding the principles are sound in Col Ninny's video (hence my initial surprise of your reaction) and it is mostly the execution and misidentification of the energy cost or conservation of the displayed manoeuvres, mistakes I am very much capable of making myself, lacking the experience.
> but if you call your tutorials "critical" or "definitive" you better fact check, or *and have the dignity to judge your own skill level*.
I know, I know, I tend to be very cautious myself when making statements but as you know, without getting too philosophical, it is not always easy for people to realise when you don't know. If I remember correctly, when Dr. David Dunning (from the Dumming-Kruger effect) was asked in a Reddit AMA if he himself was subject to the DKE he mentioned:
> I think by definition I can’t catch myself in many of the biases I’ve described in research. There is always going to be some DKE error I don’t see. And, by definition, self-deception means you have no awareness that you are authoring a belief mostly because it is congenial to you and your beliefs.
I know we're deviating here, but here is his advice how to be the best prepared if you're interested: www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/2m6d68/science_ama_seriesim_david_dunning_a_social/cm1jnlc/ and www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/2m6d68/science_ama_seriesim_david_dunning_a_social/cm1jkdz/
Back to energy fighting, MagzTV mentioned in his video that every planes are energy fighters. I like that approach as it illustrates that energy is a major factor in _all_ dogfights. Feel free to comment.
Finally, I am very partial to IL-2 Flying Circus. As these planes have barely enough energy to get in the air (I exaggerate somewhat), losing energy seemingly has that more impact as it is even harder to get it back, making the combat very strategic. I wouldn't mind seeing you have a go at the WWI crates, any chance you will some day?
@@SheriffsSimShack
I laughed when I saw the bomb as well. You really could have stopped there.
Video was critiqued already but i just want to add that gunnery shown here was really bad, just instinctively it feels like cannon is going to miss like that. Four or five passes against enemy that just turns is way too much.
Thanks, it's a demonstration of concepts and techniques, not a demonstration of my own skills.
This poor guy? Some of you are as you always knew everything
Not sure what you're saying here?
@@colninny8769 i am not sure what u want with this comment here? U need some extra explainations?
@@guyamek I do not understand your first comment. Which poor guy?
@@colninny8769 i am not here to explain you simple tingg.
@@guyamek I don't understand what you are trying to say in your first comment.
Absolutely useless cant hear a word.
are you deaf ?
I just tried the audio. Works fine for me. Try again, let me know if you sill have an issue. Thx.
Were you able to watch it with sound? Since your comment?