Why I Don’t Use a 4 Wheel Drive Tractor for Logging
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Why I use a 2 wheel drive tractor instead of a 4 wheel drive tractor for logging. I use a Massey Ferguson MF 30 MF 34 industrial tractor with a farm 501 logging winch, and log forks on the loader. I use this for my small scale logging operation. I tell why I don’t replace this tractor with a 4 wheel drive tractor. 
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I appreciate all the comments telling me how I can get more traction on this tractor. I do know I could get chains or reduce my air pressure in the tires. It is so rare that I need more traction, I have never had a need to seek out more traction.
why make video and then shoot down suggestions. {not telling you what to do} unsubscribed.
I have an old Case VA with two wheel drive and no chains... I also have a calendar that tells me when I shouldn't be using it!
@@user-rn6yc1vh4q The video wasn’t asking for suggestions.
If it's wet, I'm not yarding logs. If I'm yarding logs, it's not wet. Simple as that.
Roads are expensive to build, common sense is cheap to use.
@@user-rn6yc1vh4q Your response is something that a woman would say... Take a comment and twist it because you can't hear the tone of their voice in written statements. I don't believe he has a mean bone in his body!
Great explanation in this piece with property management verses production Logging. You don't need a bunch of extra expensive equipment to get work done, just ingenuity, and a good common sense approach to what you are harvesting.
Good morning Wilson , you obviously know about doing more with less ! Hell your good at it, any friends that are horse loggers ?
No I don’t know any horse loggers. Actually I hardly know any loggers. I just work on my own land doing my own thing. I am a bit out of the loop. I remember hearing about a horse logger around a long time ago but I don’t think it’s very popular here
Most of my time in the woods was with a 1960 Ford 601, a small two wheel drive tractor with no skidding winch. It was great for being able to maneuver around trees...just keep your thumbs out of the spokes of the steering wheel! Four wheel drive is nice but once you hook up a heavy log or two and lift up there isn't much weight on the front tires anyways. Some ag tires and or tire chains would fix your traction issues relatively cheaply but they would tear things up a bit more.
It is so rare that I have traction problems, I have ever really even thought about seeking more traction. Chains are a good suggestion but I think you are right they would tear up the road. The problem at least here when you tear up the roads next time it rains it gets slicker than ever.
The moral of the story, be thankful for what we have, be sensible about what we want as opposed to need, another spot on video, kudos.
Very well said, thank you.
I like using what I have. It’s a lifestyle. Sometimes hard. Differently rewarding.
Yes it is a lifestyle. Sometimes hard but sometimes paying for a lot of overhead can be even more hard. Especially during economic downturns.
Doing good with what you have, nice land you have
Thanks, I do enjoy the land.
Gostei muito do trator parece muito com meu trator Valmet 👍🏽
Four wheel drive can be handy but isn't always needed, my ol Ferguson was just 2wd and did fine, sadly she now waits for me to figure out what broke inside and repair her.
Oh and be safe sir sounds like oregon and washington coastal zones maybe in for some weather. Especially elevations like where you are will get the years first good snow falls.
That’s a sad state when they break and need repair. I’m not looking forward to when something major goes on this one. I am inland from the coastal zones but we are supposed to be getting a bit of rain here too. I think snow levels will be a little above me.
Hey, how about chains for the front??? Just kidding!
What year is it? Is it from your granpa?
There's a big difference between hobby land management and making a full time living from logging !
I have almost the same tractor except it’s a 40 not a 30 does yours say made in Mexico somewhere down on the block or transmission also tire chains go a heck of a long way with getting around with a 2wd tractor
Yes it says made in Mexico on the transmission. I don’t use tire chains, they would tear up the roads, then the next time it rains they will be even more slick
Chains?
Bringing a Two wheel drive into the WOODS is "Stone-Age" Technology. I have 2 4wd tractors & 2 4wd tractors. The 2 wd's almost NEVER get stuck. So l run the two 4wd's In 2wd MOST of the time & ONLY use 4wd when l am "stuck" ,and then just to "get out of there " & QUIT my "counter-production". When ya get yer 4wd stuck ,you are usually "Buried" ( a bad place to be in). Just remember; you have to "Spend money to make Money" , and IF NOT ;.... "yet just spinning your Wheels. A "Word to the Wise" .... Just get Yourself a FOUR WHEEL DRIVE TRACTOR with "Meaty-Tires" & keep it in 2 wheel drive. DON'T be cheep... Safty IS the MOST IMPORTANT Thing. !!!!
If my intention was to make money in the woods, then spending money to make money would make sense. I prefer to invest in my other more profitable businesses and keep the woods a hobby.
Takes all the fun out of it if you start trying to be more productive.
Dad said 4wd just gets you stuck further in. At last, some wisdom to go along with the production sales pitch!
That’s what my grandpa used to say. I remember him saying that about tire chains.
It horses for courses.
I bought a small 4x4 for logging, and it’s been more effective at the job than the larger 2wd we have, most of the time. It was mentioned that 4wd braking is beneficial, but also that I am not just limited to ballasting the rear for traction but can hang weights off the front for supplemental traction too. When you’re trying to push every ounce of power out of a 15hp Japanese twin cylinder diesel on a sub- ton tractor, you really want that additional traction, but for something this large it becomes less important.
That is a very good point you just made.
Totally agree! Use what you have to do things others are not able or willing to do. No big loggers are willing to come on to your land, not tear up the roads, harvest only the dead or dyeing trees and turn them into lumber. Bigger tractors, bigger sawmills, bigger trailers, bigger trucks are not always the answer.
Very well said.
No but you got to love em
I’ve been pretty impressed with what you are able to do with your tractor. You just have to be mindful. I have a 4 wd tractor. I do a lot of loader work and 4wd is a must. And when in 4wd I have brakes on all 4 wheels. No sliding into the truck when loading. Cool vehicle Wilson.
I really don’t need more traction but you bring up a good point. Brakes in the front would be the one thing that would be the most helpful.
😅we have a volvo T500 from the 70's. 2wd and a frontloader. It does the jobb here on the westcoast of Sweden. Snowplowing in winter, farm work, handling trees. It makes tighter turnes than a 4wd. No modern electronics. God old mechanical solutions make repairs easy. You are spoton. 😂
I hear ya! I love my 4wd tractor but bought it when I was working and making the kind of money needed to afford it ;) Today, I'd be lucky to get a donkey! ha! 😁😂
Where you are I am guessing snow is a big factor. If I had a lot of snow to deal with I think I would want 4wd. Or if I needed to use the tractor in winter weather. If you can get a donkey it should be able to just walk through snow and mud. 😁
Ahhhh, I knew I had seen ya before. I checked your other vids and turns out I just watched your vid about why the Silly big angled back cuts? Love your vids and totally agree with all you said. Greetings from the farm near Battle Creek, Mi.
There are two things that I strive to do when working in the woods 1. work smart 2. use what you have. You do amazingly well at both !
Thank you and those are two good things to strive for.
More equipment = more profit = more costs...
You end up working all the time just to cope with all...
Your philosophy applies to me 100%.
Good video !
Thank you and very well said.
I luv your tractor...motor going put put put.... you never just gun and see what happens... I have a 1960s tractor so i enjoy watching you work yours...
I learned a long time ago when I gun and see what happens, that’s when I get into trouble. 😁
I like your rationale on the equipment. Alot of people are more interested in keeping up with the Joneses and going into debt than being happy with what they have.
I think you hit the nail on the head there.
Perfect set up. Chains may help but if it ain’t broke don’t fix it!
Yeah it isn’t broke so I haven’t had any need to fix it. Chains might be a good suggestion if I ever needed more traction but my concern is they might tear up the roads and make them even more slick
nice touch putting those logs into the trailer.
Absolutely right! The tractor is enough for 90% of the work. For difficult terrain you can use chains on the drive axle. 👍 Nice greetings from Germany
So i understand that you don't want to mow down your forest to pay for new stuff. 🤣👍
All good points and nothing wrong with working with what you have. 😁👍
I know not mowing down my forest is a bit of an outlandish idea but I am wild and crazy like that. 😁
Lifetime small logger here. You doin fine. A winch is a must, and you have a good one..
I agree with you 💯. That's the smart way of thinking. I'm the same way
I could tell you were a smart one.
@@WilsonForestLands have you put any antifreeze in your tires. If not that will help. If that doesn't help. Put chains on it as well
In the 30 years this tractor has been in the family, I don’t think anyone has done anything to the tires other than put a little air in them sometimes. I always assumed they probably have fluid in them. It’s very rare that I don’t get enough traction so I’ve never got chains and haven’t done anything to get more traction. My concern with chains is they would tear up the roads. Then next time it rains it will get really muddy.
@@WilsonForestLands well make sure if there's any fluid is in them. Put antifreeze in it so you don't have to worry about it freezing in the winter.
My first good laugh of the day is your "If I had.." monolog.
You are the epitome of common sense and pragmatism personified. I salute you Mr Wilson.
A set of tire chains for the rears on your 2wd drive will help out quite a bit in mud season and winter.
I don’t use it in mud season and winter. Except for on my gravel roads. It might help me get through the muddy roads. But then it just makes it even more slick and muddy the next time it rains. When things are muddy that’s a good time for me to be doing other things.
Could you give a little biography at some point like your career history and how you long you've been doing this and how you got started? Love your videos. I've always thought about productivity even when small logging but you've explained the why not on that perfectly.
I have thought about doing something about myself and my history. I haven’t decided how to go about doing it. Just do a video about it or maybe a live stream Q&A. if I can catch up on dying trees maybe I will have more time for other content including that.
I think going forward uphill will put more downward force on your rear tires hopefully leading to better traction. Going uphill backwards removes some of the downward force leading to tires slipping. But I suspect you know this already, just a comment from the video.
I like your explanation of investment versus need,I think a lot of people get caught up with the” latest and greatest”. But then I say, if people didn’t buy new there wouldn’t be used equipment for me to buy.
Chains would help a lot my dad has a Ford 4400 industrial tractor. It’s a old work horse. Glad I found your channel. Stay safe
A set of tires with ag tread will be a night and day difference when it gets a little muddy. Industrial tread tires are next to useless in mud. My two wheel drive ag tractors will go in the mud where my 4wd utility tractor won't. 4wd is mostly useful for a loader tractor without sufficient rear counterweight.
So, when it comes time to replace your tires, just upgrade. Or pick up a set of used ones.
I've had both 4wd and 2wd. I live in Ohio where we get plenty of mud. The time I needed 4wd was probably about the time I should have just stayed out of the mud. Once you get a large enough frame size tractor I think the 2wd is more than adequate. If you are constantly loading weight on the rear with the 3 point such as skidding logs. Well most of the weight is transferred off the front tires anyway so 4wd is less effective. Like you said. All depends on what you are doing with it.
My 4 wheel drive tractor is really only a 3 wheel drive going up hill. No diff lock on the front so you would only be working extra for 3 wheel drive. Useful going down hill to tie into the rear brakes though. Love the philosophy of life and work balance. Thank you.
I think the front breaking feature of four wheel drive would be more useful than anything for me. One of the reasons I keep my implements low to the ground when going down steep hills. Sometimes they get used for supplemental braking.
Watched your latest production before this so I'm here from the future to say it'll be alright in the end, 2WD/4WD, nobody mentioned you should get 4 horses and you would have 16 Hoof drive. That meant to be funny but you don't have to laugh.
Thanks again
I tried not to laugh but it didn’t work. 😂
A new personal best! Two cameras down! That camera man needs a stern talking-to. Inattentive so and so...
(Thanks for the shout-out and paraphrase of my credo: Start where you are, use what you've got and do what you can.)
Couldn't view this latest before as we had some folks over to pick up a Barred Owl nest box, a Screech owl nest box and Bluebird box, but raining too hard for a tour.
Another good'un and a Likeroo to boot.
Cheers from your wet and shivering neighbor to the north.
Yeah that camera guy is getting about as bad as my sound guy. Sounds like Bird boxes are a hot item. Only mildly damp and mildly chilly here to the south.
How much cable is on your winch besides that 100' choker you have? Is winch cable 7/16" also?
This cable is 165 feet. I have another one that is 220 feet I can put on if I really want to reach out. The long one is quite a drum full and reduces the pulling power so I run the 165 the majority of the time. They are both 7/16. it’s a good size for this winch as well.
I get jealous of the fantastic land a lot of Americans have. Almost totally flat and not a single rock.
I know the camera erases a lot of unevenness, it looks like driving on a dinner table everywhere.
Here, the ice age left a lot of rocks. Even 4 wheel drive won't get me far here, I have 8 wheel drive on my forestry setup. 🤮
I get stuck between rocks and need to use the robson drive on the trailer nearly every load I haul out. Granted, my tractor is very small with small wheels. Bigger wheels handle rocks better. But then everything else gets bigger too.
It is a safety issue to have 4WD on steeper terrain. Do not load your front end loader and head down a slippery slope unless you want to take a wild ride. With 4WD you can stop on a dime even on steep down slopes and, of course you can back up them with ease too. I run my front tires on 4WD in the reverse directional pattern and this helps even more and reduced wear with heavy front end loader use. Next tractor, make it 4WD, your life limbs are woth it!
I don’t use the loader on steep terrain. I drag them down to the level places to load the trailer for various reasons. I am aware of the wild ride potential.
@@WilsonForestLands Consider, like here in WV that you can't get up there withour going down there first and visa-versa. Even unloaded, a runaway event can happen. If all of your timber is an up there scenerio, then dragging a load down hill can be effective and safe. AND, don't just go buy a new tractor for the sake of buying a new tractor, I was saying when you have to replace Old Betsy.
Thats a nice way of thinking. We do get carried away buying stuff without thinking sometimes. It woud be be an option to change tires , those industrial type is not optimal for offroading. Also, it would be nice to visit your area. We do things a bit different here in Sweden. But some sure do it your way.
I'm working on starting a farm, and I'm planning on getting a USDA loan for a sawmill and tractor. Your video was incredibly helpful for me and i really appreciate the work you put into sharing all of your information and experience!
Same rig, but we added a simple hydraulic grapple bar that adds down pressure from the top. Total game changer, and cheap to do diy.
Knew a guy logged with 2WD tractor Farmi winch and chains on the tires.
Just discovered your channel! Great stuff. I love logging with my old 2wd IH354. Only need to pul 1-3 logs anyways!
I skidded tons of logs out of the bush with a 135 massey ferguson.I had chains and always tried to cut in frozen winter,or dry late summer to fall.Worked just fine.
Na just do like all other utubes channels sell your soul to the advertising world and get what you want for free
Closing my eyes and hearing you start the tractor, I can hear my dad's old 1975 MF 178 here in Ireland. Is there a Perkins A4.248 in it by any chance?
I don’t remember what the model number is but it’s a 4 cylinder Perkins from that era.
Downhill braking with a frontload that lifts the rear tires off the ground is all it took for me to get a 4x4
2:48 not ridiculous at all. This is 'sustainability' in so many ways.
You could in theory just add a winch to the tractor sure it's a pain in the rear but it would get you up the hill even if you had no wheels. Just write in white paint 4 wheel drive on the wheels
I do use the logging winch on the tractor to pull the tractor sometimes. I forgot to mention that in the video. Hah, funny about the white paint. 😂
Four wheel drive? You need eight hoof drive and two horse powers. 😀
Bigger tractors just make bigger ruts. A 2wd ford somewhere in the size of a 4000/5000 will go damn near anywhere. Nice to see this old equipment still
Yep, I think there are a lot of people who don’t understand the value of not making ruts.
This guy could could be on fire his response would be " I am on fire, I could make it so I'm not on fire, but that would require not being on fire. Jesus Christ man you could bore the yule log to death. Happy logging.
Thank you for the kind comment.
Just a thought because 4wd is a bit more money, so here's a thought " Steel tire Chains" very effective.Cant drive on concrete or hard pavement.
It’s so rare that I need more traction I never had a need to seek out things for more traction. My concern with chains would be it would tear up the roads more. With this soil, after the soil gets disturbed on the roads, next time it rains it gets even more slick. but it’s a good suggestion if I ever really need more traction.
@@WilsonForestLands Talking about soil it appears you have excellent soil in you area, it looks dark like Top Soil
The soil is a highly decomposed granite. It is a well drain soil but dfferent than a lot of granite because it does get muddy. Makes good garden soil but needs organic material to be able to hold water since it drains so well.
Great video!
Them old Massey 100 series will go a lot of places and if it can’t you probably don’t need to go there I have a 135 and use it for managing hardwood forest in Arkansas
Very well said.
The moral of the story is buy a 4wd right from the start
Cold weather is your friend wet muddy ground just sucks.. it damages ground and the ecosystem work in the cold when possible.
Cold muddy ground is about all we get in the winter. It rarely gets cold enough to freeze the ground. I sometimes wish it would.
I’m sure it’s a lot steeper then it looks
OK this said that he can't go uphill he's got a winch 😅
I run chains on my 2wd, very worth the cost.
IMO, for what it's worth. You don't need a new tractor, you need new rear tires for sure. Maybe to retro fit a grapple if you're feeling froggy. Lol
I do get that froggy feeling every once in a while. 😁 With the weight of a grapple in the front, I would be more likely to need four wheel drive or more weight in the back to compensate for the weight being taken off the rear. It’s very rare that I don’t have enough traction and these tires are pretty decent still.
Use what you got one is not better than the other in all situations.
2wd is for fun and 4wd is when you have no other choice
It's possible a set of chains for those rear tires might do more to help than 4 wheel drive??? Depends on how deep the treads still are. Mine are so bare I have chains on year round just to get any traction.
It’s so rare that I need more traction, never felt need to get chains. My concern with chains is they are hard on the roads. When the soil gets disturbed, next time it rains it gets even more slick
That MF'er still gets the job done
Are your tires filled with something?
I just wanted to say that it looks like your front rim may be not be completely round you can just take a hammer and hit it back where it should be 7:30 in video but if you don’t touch it it probably won’t bother anything seems like it works fine as it is
Yeah I did that a few weeks ago, caught it on a chunk of wood. Straightening it up is on my to do list. 😁
A 2wd tractor, makes a better tractor driver.
Looks like youre doin fine to me.
✌️🍩
Can you use the winch to pull you up the hill?
I have a 2wd Kubota never needed 4wd
You by what you can afford ,people don’t understand that anymore
Yep. Or if you can afford it, still only buy what you need if you don’t need more.
Looks like a lot of green on that tree
You speak like a businessman who knows what he is doing. Keeping your overhead low means that you have less things overhead that can fall on your head. {Financially} There is a lot of wisdom in your reasoning why not to go out and buy a bunch of expensive equipment. Great respect for you.
“ less things overhead that can fall on your head” that is a good way to say it.
@@WilsonForestLands I just love your channel. I always get a smile on my face. A great mixture of common sense and humor. You also give me a chance to get out in the woods, even when I can't get out in the woods. Thank you.
But just imagine after your 4wd tractor is paid for with increased production…..the extra profits when you have lower overhead.
If my goal was to make profit, I wouldn’t be doing this.
@@WilsonForestLandsyeah man I hear ya.
Sometimes being busy pays more than money can. Provides a sense of accomplishment.
Crap -- go across the slope
Don’t look at that pine lol😂
Dump some of air out of your tires, you have more tread on the ground.
If I needed more traction I would but it is so rare that I need more traction, I haven’t done that. But I always know the option is there if I get into a pickle.
Two ways of making more money. Work more or spend less. As I get older I find myself concentrating on the needs more than the wants. Compared to milling with a chainsaw and packing boards to the truck on your back like I do, I’d say your operation it top tier! I sure WISH I had your tractor! 😉👍🏼
Saluti dal Italia Firenze da noi in Italia i boscaioli usano i trattori forestali dt 4x4 per questo tipo di lavoro con il verricello e i trattori agricoli e forestali 4x2 2wd vengono con attrezzature tipo lo spaccalegna idraulico o la sega circolare o la cippatrice!( Complimenti bel video e il tuo massey Ferguson vintage è super! Buon natale 2023!)
When I bought my forest I spent the first 24 months without chainsaw, or any other mechanical aids. I harvested enough wood with a handsaw and splitting maul, carrying logs up over my shoulder one by one. My thoughts were that once I had the tools I'd inevitably use it, rather than use my eyes and brain to really studying the trees. The second year I did some cruising, ID'd what needed thinning and bought a chainsaw. That 2 years of enforced study gave me a better idea of which trees needed some canopy space and I've now got a solid 5 year plan.
I have a neighbor that basically bought out the kubota dealership. Wheel loader, many skid steers, tree spades, 4WD bucket tractors, real grapple. The grapple is settling nicely in the field dirt where it got delivered. Many trees that were there are levelled and I think its becoming an industrial park.
Winch yourself up the hill, matey.
That was the original plan but I got up the hill much more than I expected to and didn’t need to.
nice way too work
Good job. I myself like to work in my forest in Sweden. To help me, I have an old forwarder who is doing well 👍
So true! Do with what you have and you'll be smarter for it. Some make a living out of cutting other people's trees, and they are only interested in how fast they can cut. Your principal still apply. When they ignore it they end up in a pile of best and thousands of needlessly cut trees.
I agree with you tractor argument. I drove 4wd tractors at work and its a big pay day to keep the tires good and there is more things that can break even though most of them are made good but still another upkeep. I say with 2wd tractor it gets most of the work done. I do not personally need to head out to the forest to pick up my logs during winter instead I use a snowmobile. Fell the trees that needed felling for firewood or maintaining. If I need big logs then I use a manual winch to tug the logs under nearby tree or good position for me get it with the tractor during spring and if its for firewood I cut and stack them also under a nearby tree and put a tarp corded around them. Never had a problem to process that wood after snow thaw out where I go and pick them up either with my log winch or wagon. -BUT- if it is a nice freeze before snow comes I usually can pick out the logs in beforehand with the tractor and winch cause that is pretty much the easiest.
Anyway what I wanted to say was that no matter how you do things there is surely another way to do it. Its just about preferences. Just as in do I need a 4wd car? Sure it would be nice during winter but in my 2wd car I might get stuck once per year? Is it justifiable to spend the money on a 4wd car then? Its a matter of opinion really. I firmly believe in those things as small steps. I may not have 4wd today but maybe in a while you lock yourself to the goal on having one you save a little until you got enough money to spend it. If people like to take out a loan go ahead but I am not that kind of man that wants things quick and easy then to figure out that I need to pay off loans and high interests rates just because I got a little needy.
Hope it is not hurting anyone but just displaying my own reasoning.
I have a 1975 MF 30 gas .
So there.
FINE!!!! 😁
bro chill
4wd is still way better at the end of the day.
Not having tractor payments is pretty awesome too.
You could chain the tyres and you probably would have got up the hill going forward. 4wd does help but on a knackered tractor with an old 4wd system it doesn’t do as much as most people expect